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Silver Surfer



vs.



Apocalypse

With no prep Silver Surfer

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
With no prep Silver Surfer


we agree......for now

?

ss every single time. easily.

There's no way SS can defeat Apocalypse easily, if netiher Ikaris nor the high evolutionary are capable of doing so.

But yeah, SS 10/10

neither HE nor ik have anywhere NEAR ss's speed or feats. he could simply shut off the x-gene in apoc and the battle is ended.

Originally posted by leonidas
neither HE nor ik have anywhere NEAR ss's speed or feats. he could simply shut off the x-gene in apoc and the battle is ended.

Speed feats? which ones?

I don't think turning off his x-gene will be as easy as you think it is, seeing as he's got complete control over his own molecules etc. It's also very possible that all it does is remove the powers Apocalypse originally had, super strength and durability.

Apoc gives himself the Power Cosmic and wins.

Apoc is made of win.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Speed feats? which ones?


joke right?

Oh yeah and SS 10/10 with no problems.

Originally posted by Naija boy
joke right?

Lay those feats on me, son.

Speed's never been a problem for Apocalypse. Wonder what speed feats'll let Surfer have such an easy time.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Speed feats? which ones?

I don't think turning off his x-gene will be as easy as you think it is, seeing as he's got complete control over his own molecules etc. It's also very possible that all it does is remove the powers Apocalypse originally had, super strength and durability.

ss has nanosecond reaction times and the ability to dodge multiple energy attacks. if he doesn't want to be hit, he won't be hit. as for the x-gene--i'd take ss's control over nur's any day. though you could be right about what he'd lose. still, a planet destroying attack would end things just as easily.

Originally posted by leonidas
ss has nanosecond reaction times and the ability to dodge multiple energy attacks. if he doesn't want to be hit, he won't be hit. as for the x-gene--i'd take ss's control over nur's any day. though you could be right about what he'd lose. still, a planet destroying attack would end things just as easily.

Thor can dodge multiple energy attacks, so can like Wolverine or Spider-man or Quicksilver.

Apocalypse can absorb energy, teleport and whatnot. His durability is so great that it allows him to take energy blasts from Ikaris or the high evolutionary.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor can dodge multiple energy attacks, so can like Wolverine or Spider-man or Quicksilver.

Apocalypse can absorb energy, teleport and whatnot. His durability is so great that it allows him to take energy blasts from Ikaris or the high evolutionary.

i'd love proof that apoc could absorb or survive a planet-busting assault. HE isn't all that impressive. ik shot eye beams which went THROUGH apoc. no chance that he ever hits ss. there's also no logical reason ss couldn't simply manipulate the air into something nearly as hard as adamantium and just trap him. or maybe open a singularity and have it crush him. ss's powers are far too numerous and too great for apoc to handle. i know we're squabbling over the TYPE of beating (you said he loses 10/10) but if ss uses all his powers properly, he demolishes apoc easily.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lay those feats on me, son.

Speed's never be but at least en a problem for Apocalypse. Wonder what speed feats'll let Surfer have such an easy time.

Surfer has confirmed on panel nanosecond reaction times,has speedblitzed multiple opponents,etc If u really need me to provide scans then no problem but first please gove instances of what u mean by "speed has never been a problem for apoc".

Ok kris. now on to speed feats

I dont feel like digging thru surfer scans right now so i got a scan that shud pretty much end it. HEre is surfer performing a very high level speedblitz, clearly beyond apocalypse speedwise by quite some margin.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surfercmbatspeeddisplay.jpg

Edit- Ill just post the deathrge scan since ive located it.
Surfer FTL combat speed against deathurge
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_silversurferdodgesandattacksdeathur.jpg

Apoc once dodged a table... speed isn't an issue here.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer has confirmed on panel nanosecond reaction times,has speedblitzed multiple opponents,etc If u really need me to provide scans then no problem but first please gove instances of what u mean by "speed has never been a problem for apoc".

If you really know that much about Apocalypse, you'd know how "speed hasn't been an issue" for him, wouldn't you? He's apparently fast enough to open a hole in his chest just as Ikaris' beam passes through, he can tag Quicksilver easily. Anyone with proper super-speed can tag Quicksilver easily, it's not an incredible zomfg feat, but it establishes a minimum.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd love proof that apoc could absorb or survive a planet-busting assault. HE isn't all that impressive. ik shot eye beams which went THROUGH apoc. no chance that he ever hits ss. there's also no logical reason ss couldn't simply manipulate the air into something nearly as hard as adamantium and just trap him. or maybe open a singularity and have it crush him. ss's powers are far too numerous and too great for apoc to handle. i know we're squabbling over the TYPE of beating (you said he loses 10/10) but if ss uses all his powers properly, he demolishes apoc easily.

Well, Apocalypse is a herald level and can take attacks from other herald level characters. So we naturally assume that he can operate on said level. I've never seen Firelord take any planet-destroying attacks, but I highly doubt that he would be killed by one.

Now, as far as suddenly turning everything into adamantium. How would this be a problem for someone who can teleport? Is Norrin going to shut him inside a super dome of adamantium? I've never seen Norrin transform air into something as complex or strong as adamantium either.

Singularity could work, but once again, he can teleport.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok kris. now on to speed feats

I dont feel like digging thru surfer scans right now so i got a scan that shud pretty much end it. HEre is surfer performing a very high level speedblitz, clearly beyond apocalypse speedwise by quite some margin. ANother instance of note is him evading at FTL speeds mid battle against Deathurge. (I will probly put up that scan later)
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surfercmbatspeeddisplay.jpg

It's just not that impressive. It's a speed feat I guess, but he's fighting against his exact duplicate. There's no telling how fast the battle is taking place, only that several blasts are being fired and/or dodged. It's like the time Balder took out a hundred trolls in a couple of seconds. Fast, but nothing that would blitz Apocalypse.

okay, so there is a chance apoc could run and teleport until ss finally hits him with some huge blast he can't warp around. as far as energy absorption--nur has NOTHING on ss who can absorb ludicrous amounts of energy of nearly ANY type. apoc cannot possibly harm ss in anyway at all, if he was ever able to hit him, which seems unlikely. ss could simply transmute his tech/armor into bubbles, like he did to the ELDER OF THE UNIVERSE obliterator, or turn his body to stone, or steel . . . even if he can't transmute his body for whatever reason, transmuting his tech would be simple enough.

again, there is absolutely nothing in apoc's arsenal that can harm ss. not even psionically. it MIGHT take ss a bit of time to catch him, but this battle would never be in doubt for a moment.

I'm just playing around. There aren't enough feats to suggest that Apocalypse can take any victories from the Surfer.

It is however, absolutely ludicrous that Surfer could do things such as morph Apocalypse's body or technology. When Norrin takes down Apocalypse, it'll be because he has so much more power. I mean, he's the Silver Surfer. He can probably detonate an entire galaxy.

SS ftw.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you really know that much about Apocalypse, you'd know how "speed hasn't been an issue" for him, wouldn't you? He's apparently fast enough to open a hole in his chest just as Ikaris' beam passes through, he can tag Quicksilver easily. Anyone with proper super-speed can tag Quicksilver easily, it's not an incredible zomfg feat, but it establishes a minimum.

What? thats pure nonsense. ITs up to u to support the claim u made not me. THe Ikaris beam is just a pathetic example. It could be that he opened his chest as he saw ikaris about to fire the beam. Even if we assume that it was the other way round(he opened it after the beam was fired) it hardly puts him even near surfer level of speed. Even the hulk has been able to tag quicksilver while he was actually rushing him so that doesnt put him anywhere near surfers level of speed at all



not that impressive? How does him fighting his duplicate take away from the feat? Further most flashesque speed blitzes have no given time frame and hence no way of deteermining how fast they are actually going. However the artistique depiction clear displays high level superspeed being used in multiple directions within a battle scenario. You have shown no apocalypse feat to show he can defend against such. How the balder example is relevant here i have no idea. However IF balder did indeed take out 100 trolls (individually) in a couple of seconds then it IS an example of combat speed which far exceeds anything uve shown from apocalypse(nothing really)

Further i provided an example of SS actually hitting lightspeed during battle as well.

EDIT- Just saw Kris post about not being serious on previous page

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you really know that much about Apocalypse, you'd know how "speed hasn't been an issue" for him, wouldn't you? He's apparently fast enough to open a hole in his chest just as Ikaris' beam passes through, he can tag Quicksilver easily. Anyone with proper super-speed can tag Quicksilver easily, it's not an incredible zomfg feat, but it establishes a minimum.



Well, Apocalypse is a herald level and can take attacks from other herald level characters. So we naturally assume that he can operate on said level. I've never seen Firelord take any planet-destroying attacks, but I highly doubt that he would be killed by one.

Now, as far as suddenly turning everything into adamantium. How would this be a problem for someone who can teleport? Is Norrin going to shut him inside a super dome of adamantium? I've never seen Norrin transform air into something as complex or strong as adamantium either.

Singularity could work, but once again, he can teleport.



It's just not that impressive. It's a speed feat I guess, but he's fighting against his exact duplicate. There's no telling how fast the battle is taking place, only that several blasts are being fired and/or dodged. It's like the time Balder took out a hundred trolls in a couple of seconds. Fast, but nothing that would blitz Apocalypse.


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3522/fantasticfourv105707.th.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8030/silversurfer198700208sz2.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7331/silversurfer198700209qi1.jpg


I'm not saying that either of those feats qualifies as concrete proof of Surfer's ability to pull adamantium out of nowhere, but they do show that Surfer can create some pretty complex things from nothing with a fair amount of ease.

Originally posted by leonidas
take ss a bit of time to catch him, but this battle would never be in doubt for a moment.

Shouldnt really take that long even then considering SS can attune his vision to view any residual energy left by Apocs teleportation and is fast enough to calculate his next point of arrival and strike accordingly.

i.e
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm just playing around. There aren't enough feats to suggest that Apocalypse can take any victories from the Surfer.

It is however, absolutely ludicrous that Surfer could do things such as morph Apocalypse's body or technology. When Norrin takes down Apocalypse, it'll be because he has so much more power. I mean, he's the Silver Surfer. He can probably detonate an entire galaxy.

i figured you were, but transuting his tech isn't far fetched at all, imo. it's just tech. even though it was based on celestial tech, that doesn't mean it anymore resistant to transmutation than anything else--especially by someone using powers from galactus who is arguably greater than a celestial. turning his body into stone also seems quite viable to me, especially if ss did away with his armor first. there is at least no logical reason he couldn't do either of those things. that's why i so hate debating against ss. logically, there is very little he can't do.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Shouldnt really take that long even then considering SS can attune his vision to view any residual energy left by Apocs teleportation and is fast enough to calculate his next point of arrival and strike accordingly.

i.e
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas especially by someone using powers from galactus who is arguably greater than a celestial.

Ah so u hve finally seen the light.

I'm just wondering since when did Leo become pro Surfer?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ah so u hve finally seen the light.



and i see how you conveniently did NOT bold the word arguably!

Originally posted by kgkg
I'm just wondering since when did Leo become pro Surfer?

i've ALWAYS liked ss.

he's just always a challenge to debate against so naturally, i usually do. though to be fair, there are VERY few characters (non-cosmics) who i'd ever say could beat ss in a straight-up battle.

Originally posted by leonidas


and i see how you conveniently did NOT bold the word arguably!



Such a trivial detail could be omitted

When I think about it Leonidas, Surfer could possibly create adamantium. But like I said, it would be pointless.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Shouldnt really take that long even then considering SS can attune his vision to view any residual energy left by Apocs teleportation and is fast enough to calculate his next point of arrival and strike accordingly.

i.e
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

I fail to see how that's any proof that he would be able to predict where Apocalypse teleports? We don't know how his teleportation works, nor does it make any sense that residue left behind when he teleports would reveal where he's going to teleport.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I fail
Admittance. The first step towards healing.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Admittance. The first step towards healing.



i'm curious though--is his ability to teleport tech based or a natural power? if ss transmutes his tech . . .

even if it's natural, it seems ss could if he chose to, simply turn it off via genetic manipulation. meh. ss's a pain in the arse.

Originally posted by leonidas
even if it's natural, it seems ss could if he chose to, simply turn it off via genetic manipulation. meh. ss's a pain in the arse.
Why doesn't anyone bring up these arguments against Superman?

Originally posted by leonidas
even if it's natural, it seems ss could if he chose to, simply turn it off via genetic manipulation. meh. ss's a pain in the arse.

Assuming it would work :/

Same reason why SS can't turn a celestial into chocolate.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Why doesn't anyone bring up these arguments against Superman? i did for the record

Originally posted by Enyalus
Why doesn't anyone bring up these arguments against Superman?

They do.

And those defending Superman bring up evidence of him resisting manipulation.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
And those defending Superman bring up evidence of him resisting manipulation.
Yeah, I thought of things like AOS 623 or whatever, right after I said that.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze



I fail to see how that's any proof that he would be able to predict where Apocalypse teleports? We don't know how his teleportation works, nor does it make any sense that residue left behind when he teleports would reveal where he's going to teleport.

It has less to do with the residue than it does SS. He has shown the ability to determine the destination of teleportation through the energy residue left behind on more than one occasion i.e He also used the energy residue left behind to determine that BRB had teleported to Asgard in Cosmic powers unlimited. There is yet another iinstance he did it which i cant seem to recall.

Further thats not his ony way of knowing where apoc will teleport(though this running around via teleportation thing is quite ridiculous tbh). His cosmic senses will easily alert him as they do here.
Note how he instantly is alerted to the materialization of even subatomic particles.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Silversurfersenesshiftinthepatte-1.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Silversurfersenesshiftinthepatterno.jpg


Further even without the abiity to determine where apoc materializes, with his sheer speed he will be able to connect with apoc before he teleports again.(with SS speed hed be able to tag even nightcrawler. and apoc is no nightcrawler )

Originally posted by Naija boy
It has less to do with the residue than it does SS. He has shown the ability to determine the destination of teleportation through the energy residue left behind on more than one occasion i.e He also used the energy residue left behind to determine that BRB had teleported to Asgard in Cosmic powers unlimited. There is yet another iinstance he did it which i cant seem to recall.

Further thats not his ony way of knowing where apoc will teleport(though this running around via teleportation thing is quite ridiculous tbh). His cosmic senses will easily alert him as they do here.
Note how he instantly is alerted to the materialization of even subatomic particles.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Silversurfersenesshiftinthepatte-1.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Silversurfersenesshiftinthepatterno.jpg


Further even without the abiity to determine where apoc materializes, with his sheer speed he will be able to connect with apoc before he teleports again.(with SS speed hed be able to tag even nightcrawler. and apoc is no nightcrawler )

Cosmic sense is logical, but don't bother putting words in my mouth. I was not claiming that Apocalypse would teleport around, but rather that trapping Apocalypse would be impossible. There's also intangibility, so the idea that Surfer could trap Apoc in some sort of dome is ridiculous.

The claim that tagging nightcrawler is impressive, is not. Everybody and their mother are capable of tagging nightcrawler, rogue, Wolverine, the Neo, that clown from when they first met X-23 and many, many more.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Cosmic sense is logical, but don't bother putting words in my mouth. I was not claiming that Apocalypse would teleport around, but rather that trapping Apocalypse would be impossible. There's also intangibility, so the idea that Surfer could trap Apoc in some sort of dome is ridiculous.

The claim that tagging nightcrawler is impressive, is not. Everybody and their mother are capable of tagging nightcrawler, rogue, Wolverine, the Neo, that clown from when they first met X-23 and many, many more.

I wasnt putting anywords into ur mouth. leo made the statement "it would take a little bit of time to catch him" if he teleported around. Thats why i posted the scan of SS determining the destination of a being teleporting. U then qoted that post and in my reply i mentioned on the side that the strategy of Apoc teleporting around in the first place was quite a ridiculous one for him to employ.

Also in regards to the nightcrawler thing i meant being able to hit him if he was teleporting non stop. I was relating it to apocs method of teleportation which was not as quick in application as NCs and hence that if apoc chose to use that strategy that SS would certainly be able to hit him.

Someone who is beating such powerful being in Stryfe without a problem, he didn't even flinch and without going all out (although he was fully powered), isn't easy to defeat.

SS has a big speed advantage, so he wins.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Someone who is beating such powerful being in Stryfe without a problem, he didn't even flinch and without going all out (although he was fully powered), isn't easy to defeat.
What if he's fighting Surfer?

Originally posted by Xplosive
Someone who is beating such powerful being in Stryfe without a problem, he didn't even flinch and without going all out (although he was fully powered), isn't easy to defeat.

SS has a big speed advantage, so he wins.

I was wondering about that. Stryfe, Cable and Nate are supposed to be capable of destroying planets at full power. Does the feat count for Apocalypse though? It was in the future after all.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I was wondering about that. Stryfe, Cable and Nate are supposed to be capable of destroying planets at full power. Does the feat count for Apocalypse though? It was in the future after all.
It's the same Apoc though, isn't it?

I mean, 616 Warren was completely his... maybe he just went to the future?

Originally posted by Charmander
It's the same Apoc though, isn't it?

I mean, 616 Warren was completely his... maybe he just went to the future?

yeah, he was "restored" after all and not powered up.

Originally posted by Charmander
What if he's fighting Surfer?

Well, speed is the problem. If SS wouldn't use it, I have no doubt Apocalypse would go toe to toe and give him a very tough fight and SS wouldn't bring Apocalypse down easily.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I was wondering about that. Stryfe, Cable and Nate are supposed to be capable of destroying planets at full power. Does the feat count for Apocalypse though? It was in the future after all.

Yes, since it's 616 and writers even said they will bring him back to his classic levels when he was a beast. And it was about time.
So, having an upper had against HE and laughing his blasts (who issue later I think, easily defeated Thor), fighting Loki and having an upper hand (Loki in the time manipulated all big villains, except Apocalypse), taking down PE Ikaris easily, BB with Inhumans+X-Factor were useless against him, Apocalypse taking out Stryfe easily, that was no coincidence. Powerful Living Monolith was afraid of him as was Moses Magnum and so was Stryfe.
It's just when they write Apocalypse as they should, at his classic levels. He is a f*ucking beast.

Bishop also said recently said when X-Men defeated Apocalypse in the past, it was only temporary and they defeated him because of stopping his plans and Apocalypse flew. We saw what happens when Apocalypse is angry and just comes with plans to fight, with vengeance. Stryfe got afraid and Cable knew that him and X-Factor don't stand a chance and would die, but then Death saved them.

Hopefully we can see more of Pooky in the near Future. Messiah arc is suppose to be a Trilogy. So one more arc to go.coot


Any in regards to Stryfe, his power seems to be diluted compared to Cable or X-Man. Consequences of being a clone.
On top of lacking X-Man/Cable massive feats (no real excuses, he has had plenty of screen time).

Why do you think, the X-Men where so surprised of X-Man power? How do you explain living for so long with some form of inhibitor, to keep his body together? Why did Stryfe admit inferiority to Cable, if Cable was ever to reach full power? Why did Cable K.O. Stryfe in their first encounter, with Cable manifested his powers?

Originally posted by id369
Why do you think, the X-Men where so surprised of X-Man power? How do you explain living for so long with some form of inhibitor, to keep his body together? Why did Stryfe admit inferiority to Cable, if Cable was ever to reach full power? Why did Cable K.O. Stryfe in their first encounter, with Cable manifested his powers?

Well, why to be surprised by Stryfe powers, when they already had the example before, so they got used to it.
I don't know why Stryfe admitted inferiority. Is Stryfe maybe really inferior?
Cable KO him because of getting the first shot. (anyway, even if equally powerful, someone can win the fight and get the KO. God-like Cable Vs. Nate Grey, that doens't mean it would be draw, even if they are equal in power. Someone can KO the other and get the win).

Stryfe also said he is the most powerful mutant; past, present or future. Maybe he said that because he knew why Cable was created and he knows he is the same in powers to him. But of course, nor Stryfe nor Cable can take that title.

Anyway, Stryfe is massively powerful and was joke to Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Someone who is beating such powerful being in Stryfe without a problem, he didn't even flinch and without going all out (although he was fully powered), isn't easy to defeat.


IF he is fighting against SS then he is easy to defeat.