Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Uhm, set in mexico. Both characters start with a sombrero.

Longpig

Absorbing Man - Body, powers
Flash - Powers
Dr Strange -magical fighting ability mind and powers

Dr Strange
http://www.marveldirectory.com/xoop...php?entryID=223

Flash (Barry)
http://www.dcuguide.com/profile.php?name=flash2

Absorbing Man
http://www.marveldirectory.com/xoop...y.php?entryID=2

vs

Khellendros

Mr. Blackstrom:

Mr. Majestic: Mind/Body/abilities/powers
Maelstrom: powers/Kinetic draining
Black Bolt: powers/scream


Mr Majestic
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/m/majestic.htm

Blackbolt
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/terr.../BlackBolt.html

Maelstrom
http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi...m/maelstrom.htm

you need to list the character and the links.... go copy them from the roster thread before your edit time is up

why in Mexico? I don't want them here!

shoo! shoo!!

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Uhm, set in mexico. Both characters start with a sombrero.




Anyway, for anyone viewing this thread, remember to start voting once some strategies and counter-strategies have been posted. It's been a while, but we're finally going to finish!! clapping

I think we should make it like the "bonus round" and say that anyone here at or before (what was it?) May, I think, is allowed to vote. Good luck guys.

-DM

I wasn't allowed to vote in the last one.

yeah... i think Evang even said she was changing it to may and before for voting

May it is then...let's make it official....

IMPORTANT
TOURNEY ANNOUNCEMENT:

***If you were a member of these forums as of May '05 or before you can vote in this match and for the rest of this tournament!***

-DM

Yes I can vote now

It's been what... 2 months since the tournament started?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
It's been what... 2 months since the tournament started?

since the drafts?... i'd say at least 4 months

Hmmm.... Where's Pig and Khell???

they're behind you

Because of time restraints that I'm facing, I've come up with the least complex and cheapest strategy I can think of.

--------------During prep---------------

I caste my triple shield as always. Five minutes.

I conjure the EOA. Few seconds.

I absorb into iron form. Instant.

I create my illusions, 10 of them. Few seconds. ST #123 (Against Loki), ST #130-131, DS #70.

I conjure my Astral Ring. (The Ancient One gave Doc a ring which allows him to do everything in astral form that he can in real-life form) . Few seconds, nearly instant.

I conjure the Crimson bands of Cyttorak, not to use as bands, but as a large imprisoning crystal as shown in which covers my body as a protection device.

I rise from the crystal through Astral form, casting a spell of invisibility over my covered body.

My illusions are programmed to attack.
I'm ready to go.

----------------Fight---------------------

Pretty cut-n-dry here, Khell's guy is no mystic, definatly not high enough of one too see the astral Strange and none of his powers nor anything will harm Strange while in said Astral form. There is no kenetic energy being used by me while in Astral form, Khell won't be getting a charge up from my movement.

My body is as protected as one's body can possibly be, iron body, shields three times more powerful than normal(normal shield took blasts from Galactus, Death, Watcher destroying attacks), potentially unbreakable crystal around me and a cloak of invisibility to top it all off.

Khell's guy, a basic Superman clone will have no possible idea where my body is, nor will he be able to see my Astral form. He will see my illusions and attack, there isn't a reason for him to do otherwise.

This is what will happen while he's playing with my illusions(who all have a mid-level telepathic ability .).

Strange in Astral form first attacks Blackstroms mind, a spell of forgetfulness is my first act.
This first spell will slowly start confusing BS, he'll soon forget just exactly what he's doing.
But before that happens, Strange attacks his mind again with Images of Ikonn , which will make BS mentally feel the pain of everyone he's slain(He doesn't have to be evil for this to work....just a killer, and we know Majestic does kill).

BS will no doubt be very mentally weak, so it's time to take out the body.
BS will soon find himself attacked by the invisible Demons of Denak which use their claws to attack and their numbers to overwhelm.

BS will no doubt now try and fight these Demons, good.

His mind is utterly confused by this time, two massive mental spells have turned him into a lumbering strong man. As he drifts in and out of concentration on just exactly what he is here for, he finds himself being pulled in all directions by a mass of long, green, writhing snake-like tentacles(Vipers of Valtorr) .

Finally, to put him out for good I undo my spell of the Crimson Crystal, inturn, using it as their major use, bands.

They appear around BS and envelope him, containing him.
To stop any struggle(by now, he wouldn't have a reason to struggle, he doesn't know wtf is going on anymore, he's now as smart as fried pickles) and for the win I return quickly to normal form and conjure the sleeping spell of Morpheus, they have worked on Odin, they would work here.

Incapacitation is a win.


This is very cut and dry, Strange is immune to anything physical while he is in astral form, he also can do basically anything he can do normally, he even can use his eye.

I'm effectively immune to everything.
(don't hate me for such cheap ass tactics, I really don't have much time here to debate....fiance is in the hospitol.)

Okay, hour of prep is basically just Blackstrom supercharging ALL of his physical stats (speed, reaction time, durability, strength, stamina, etc.) with electron and kinetic energy and then perfecting the various uses of Black Bolt and Maelstrom's powers. In the last minute or so, he puts up his best protective electron field. OKay, now, about your prep time...

Originally posted by long pig
I caste my triple shield as always. Five minutes.
Yeah. According to this site: http://www.luckymojo.com/vishantivol1.html that particular spell has to be performed between two mirrors. So, no shield for you.

Originally posted by long pig
Pretty cut-n-dry here, Khell's guy is no mystic, definatly not high enough of one too see the astral Strange and none of his powers nor anything will harm Strange while in said Astral form. There is no kenetic energy being used by me while in Astral form, Khell won't be getting a charge up from my movement.
Yeah, he's no mystic. He's just the most powerful member of an immortal race of beings who create Cosmic Cube-like creatures for use as recreation. Majestic can sense peoples auras, and see the astral forms of Daemonites. In addition, Black Bolt can create sensor probes todetect electromagnetic phenomena, and if Iron Man can detect Strange's astral form, so can my guy. Also, I'd be interested to see how you can prove he uses no kinetic energy since he, ya know, MOVES. Man, it's gonna be a b*tch to cast those spells when you can't move your arms to make motions or move your jaw to speak.

Originally posted by long pig
My body is as protected as one's body can possibly be, iron body, shields three times more powerful than normal(normal shield took blasts from Galactus, Death, Watcher destroying attacks), potentially unbreakable crystal around me and a cloak of invisibility to top it all off.
Well, you DO have that iron body, which is sweet. And your crystal. But no shield. Invisibility isn't gonna do much good, since I just saw your astral form rise up out of the large crimson crystal.

Originally posted by long pig
Khell's guy, a basic Superman clone will have no possible idea where my body is, nor will he be able to see my Astral form. He will see my illusions and attack, there isn't a reason for him to do otherwise.
The body is in the crystal. Majestic has two ways of sensing your Astral form. Your illusions won't stand up to the senses of someone who can see auras and look down the the subatomic level.

Originally posted by long pig
This is what will happen while he's playing with my illusions(who all have a mid-level telepathic ability .).
Majestic has shrugged off magical mind sontrol, influence from more than half a dozen Daemonites who were INSIDE HIM, and Black Bolt has easily counteracted mental attacks from his brother, who is definitely above mid-level in telepathy. After the split second it takes to figure out those illusions aren't his real target, he's ignoring them.

Originally posted by long pig
Strange in Astral form first attacks Blackstroms mind, a spell of forgetfulness is my first act.
This first spell will slowly start confusing BS, he'll soon forget just exactly what he's doing.
But before that happens, Strange attacks his mind again with Images of Ikonn , which will make BS mentally feel the pain of everyone he's slain(He doesn't have to be evil for this to work....just a killer, and we know Majestic does kill).
Again, magical mental attacks are pretty much useless here. Majestic will jsut shrug this spell off, assuming you can cast it without being able to move. Majestic is no stranger to pain, all the images will do is piss him off.

Originally posted by long pig
BS will no doubt be very mentally weak, so it's time to take out the body.
BS will soon find himself attacked by the invisible Demons of Denak which use their claws to attack and their numbers to overwhelm.
Yeah, they might be trouble if they can penetrate his shield, armor, and invulnerable skin.

Originally posted by long pig
As he drifts in and out of concentration on just exactly what he is here for, he finds himself being pulled in all directions by a mass of long, green, writhing snake-like tentacles(Vipers of Valtorr) .
A tentacle attack? To a guy who AT BASE STRENGTH pushes planets around, and moves mountain-sized objects at FTL speed? Right. Not even a nuisance.

Originally posted by long pig
Finally, to put him out for good I undo my spell of the Crimson Crystal, inturn, using it as their major use, bands.
And here we go. The instant the crystal is gone, it's just a matter of turning the air around your body into a mass of antimatter particles roughly equal to your body's mass. The result would be a devastating nuclear explosion which, being capable of flying at FTL speeds, Majestic can outrun. You, on the other hand, are still frozen from the kinetic drain (once something has had ALL of it's kinetic energy drained by Maelstrom, it stops moving. It can't even fall down, it will just hover in place, unmovable). And, Strange himself has admitted (in scans you posted on another board) that sufficient levels of heat/radiation can eventually damage his astral form.

One kilogram of antimatter would equal 43 hydrogen bombs. Crusher is listed as weighing 365 pound, or 165.5 kilograms. 165.5 times 43 makes a single blast equal to 7,116 (I rounded down) hydrogen bombs. You, sir, are F*CKED.

Firstly, my triple shield is easily done with conjured mirrors, I left it out only because it's a moot point.
Strange conjures those mirrors whenever he casts those shields, it's almost instantly.
Conjuring a mirror is the least of my abilities.


Like I said, he isn't a mystic, he won't see the astral form. Why would you create a probe? You have no idea who I am or what I can do, does BB always create probes? No. Do you have enough control over BB's power to create said probe? No.
No probes for you.

When has Majestic ever been able to see Astral form during normal everyday situations? Highly doubtful.


Simple, I HAVE NO MOLECULES in Astral form. I am not a physical being in Astral form, I'm for all intents and purposes, not there.
Kenetic energy is formed through physical movement, Atral form has no physical movement.

Strange can fly in and out of you, underground whatever he wants with no fear of being harmed whatsoever. None.



Yup, Iron, my triple shield and the crystal. You won't see me come out of the Astral form (even IF you could see Astral form, which you can not) because I did it during prep.
You don't get to see what I do during prep.


Majestic isn't immune to mental attacks, especially magic mental attacks. The first one was a spell that effects your mental, not a mental attack per say, it was to make you lose total concentration.

The Ikon attacks will piss you off, sure, but you'll still feel every bit of it in your mind, and it will make you fall. Majestic's mind is not > Galactus' mind.

Of course I can move in Astral form....Remember, NO MOLECULES=NO KENETIC ENERGY. You won't have any control over my movement, I'll have all the control over yours.


Those tentacles held 100class leaguers before, and since you'd now have the mind of corky from life goes on, you won't struggle too much.



Sure....maybe, if you weren't already near unconciousness and if the Bands didn't appear insantly around you.
You don't have mastery over your other powers, you've had maybe 2 hours tops training with them, you can't do these things...ESPECIALLY while you are under a spell of confusion/forgetfulness and you're in severe mental agony over the Ikon attack.

The real good thing about being in Astral form is I can wait till whenever the effects I want happen before I go back into my physical body(If I ever go at all)
So if you look like you're struggling still, I just keep up with the spells until you stop.
Also, why would there be air around my body?(Even if you get that far with your strategy, which you will not) I'm technically a living metal statue with skin tight shields, I don't need to breath. Air tight like when Strange flies through space, otherwise, his air would be sucked out in the vaccum of space.


This won't happen, but I'll still counter it.
Instant teleportation is>FTL speeds.



You see, you need to concentraite to be able to use all those VERY complicated powers, which of course you don't have mastery of in the first place and you are under a spell of confusion.
You won't be able to do any of this...at all.


Sure, but intense long(longer than this fight will ever be) period exposure.......When he took the brunt of the Supernova ANDhttp://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4694/drstrange027145cw.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8590/dmm5tw.jpg

Have I said I hate magic before? If this were my tournament to start with, no magic. Damn. I hate evangel.

Vote fer LP... Doc Strange is officially a badass to the most severe degree.

damn wide pictures... making me move my mouse to read whole sentences.... points off for making me move....

Stygyro=all the power of a sun.
Strange was taking HIS blasts/power and the effects of the supernova while in Astral form.

I will wait a few more posts before I decide

They're wide...but only because I wanted to please everyone with large pictures, so nobody strains to squint.

Also I wanted to show the "Time compression here, molecular alteration there" part, cuz it's bad ass.

how do you post a pic you have stored on your comp... but not have it like a small attachement?

did you post those ones from images stored on your own computer?

It's kinda complicated.

You have to scan the pic from your book, then get a membership at an image warehouse like imageshack, then upload it to them, then past the image location here.

i see..... can anyone view the pics you upload to image shack?

Dizzle mentioned Strange being a bad-ass. I'm just happy either him or Majestic will be gone after this fight (I'm sure Scoob can say the same). Those two together would be nigh-unstoppable.

Holding off on voting though...

Yeah.
They can view your photoalbum.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Dizzle mentioned Strange being a bad-ass. I'm just happy either him or Majestic will be gone after this fight (I'm sure Scoob can say the same). Those two together would be nigh-unstoppable.

Holding off on voting though...

pffft... i'm not worried.....shifty.......fear

Originally posted by long pig
They're wide...but only because I wanted to please everyone with large pictures, so nobody strains to squint.

Also I wanted to show the "Time compression here, molecular alteration there" part, cuz it's bad ass.

Speaking of time compression, I have my choice (while in astral form) of either using the methods that I already listed to incapacitate BS or use a particular time spell Strange has used on 5 different occasions.
Defenders #1 & Marvel Feature I#1 and others I can't remember.

It's very close to the speed force, it's a spell that compresses time to about 1 second per month, basically giving me the incapacitation I was trying for the first go round.

Happend in MFI#1(Before Omegatron could absorb enough energy, Strange put a spell on Omegatron and stopped time around it. Strange made the lighthouse appear inactive so no one would accidentally start Omegatron again. Omegatron's clock went from ticking in seconds to each second to counting down to its nuclear explosion at the rate of one second per month.)

Again in Defenders #1((Defenders I#1)- Strange used another time spell like the one he used on Omegatron.


Thought I'd throw that in there.

Originally posted by long pig
Firstly, my triple shield is easily done with conjured mirrors, I left it out only because it's a moot point.
Strange conjures those mirrors whenever he casts those shields, it's almost instantly.
Conjuring a mirror is the least of my abilities.
Funny, I don't see "conjure a couple mirrors" listed as an ability on any Strange bio I've ever read. Prep time allows you only to use whats on your person, not just pull random crap out of thin air.

Originally posted by long pig
Like I said, he isn't a mystic, he won't see the astral form. Why would you create a probe? You have no idea who I am or what I can do, does BB always create probes? No. Do you have enough control over BB's power to create said probe? No.
No probes for you.
Scanning the EM spectrum for Majestic is like squinting for regular people. Why would I create probes? Gee, I don't know, because there's an invisible astral form floating around nearby who wants to kill me? BB creates probes when needed and yeah... just because you say "no probes for you" doesn't make it reality.

Originally posted by long pig
When has Majestic ever been able to see Astral form during normal everyday situations? Highly doubtful.
What, like this is a stroll through the park? It's a friggin battle to the death here, he's going to pull out every ability he has at his disposal!

Originally posted by long pig
Simple, I HAVE NO MOLECULES in Astral form. I am not a physical being in Astral form, I'm for all intents and purposes, not there.
Kenetic energy is formed through physical movement, Atral form has no physical movement.
Maelstrom has absorbed the kinetic energy from the electron blasts from Black Bolt. He doesn't need molecules, he just needs movement, and to cast your spells, you need to be able to move. Your ass is stuck.

Originally posted by long pig
Yup, Iron, my triple shield and the crystal. You won't see me come out of the Astral form (even IF you could see Astral form, which you can not) because I did it during prep.
You don't get to see what I do during prep.
Umm, if you're going to hide in the crystal, it has to be somewhere on the battlefield, no matter what you did during prep.

Originally posted by long pig
Majestic isn't immune to mental attacks, especially magic mental attacks. The first one was a spell that effects your mental, not a mental attack per say, it was to make you lose total concentration.
Actually, for all intents and purposes, he is. Something that adversely effectsme emntally constitues an attack.

Originally posted by long pig
The Ikon attacks will piss you off, sure, but you'll still feel every bit of it in your mind, and it will make you fall. Majestic's mind is not > Galactus' mind.
Yes, but Majestic isn't a world eating bastard. Majestic's number of kills is utterly dwarfed by Galactus'

Originally posted by long pig
Of course I can move in Astral form....Remember, NO MOLECULES=NO KENETIC ENERGY. You won't have any control over my movement, I'll have all the control over yours.
Remember, jsut because you SAY something, doesn't make it true. You don't need molecules, going by Marvel physics, to have kinetic energy for me to drain.

Originally posted by long pig
Those tentacles held 100class leaguers before, and since you'd now have the mind of corky from life goes on, you won't struggle too much.
Show me Gladiator being held by the tentacles and maybe I'll be impressed. And, since your mental attacks have done precisely jack and sh*t to me, I'll struggle plenty.

Originally posted by long pig
Sure....maybe, if you weren't already near unconciousness and if the Bands didn't appear insantly around you.
You don't have mastery over your other powers, you've had maybe 2 hours tops training with them, you can't do these things...ESPECIALLY while you are under a spell of confusion/forgetfulness and you're in severe mental agony over the Ikon attack.
I'm not near consciousness, I've been shrugging off your spells like the magical equivalent of mosquito bites. Instantly by YOUR standards is not instantly by Majestic standards. The instant he senses an energy field forming around him, he's boodying out of the way. Actually, I've had three hours, using the mind of an alien genius, to train with them. Black Bolt was using matter manipulation when he was an INFANT, before he could even walk under his own power.

Originally posted by long pig
The real good thing about being in Astral form is I can wait till whenever the effects I want happen before I go back into my physical body(If I ever go at all)
So if you look like you're struggling still, I just keep up with the spells until you stop.
Actually, you won't be going back to your physical body, because your body and most of the planet it was standing on has just been obliterated by a massive antimatter explosion, and you are utterly kinetically drained and motionless.

Originally posted by long pig
Also, why would there be air around my body?(Even if you get that far with your strategy, which you will not) I'm technically a living metal statue with skin tight shields, I don't need to breath. Air tight like when Strange flies through space, otherwise, his air would be sucked out in the vaccum of space.
Why would there be air... we're in friggin MEXICO. On Earth. There's air all over the place down here.You are living metal, but you have no shields, and you just got rid of your protective crystal. OOPS.

Originally posted by long pig
This won't happen, but I'll still counter it.
Instant teleportation is>FTL speeds.
Can't perform a teleportation spell when you can't move your arms or mouth to cast it. Instantaneous explosion >>>>> immobilized wizard.

Originally posted by long pig
You see, you need to concentraite to be able to use all those VERY complicated powers, which of course you don't have mastery of in the first place and you are under a spell of confusion.
Oh yes, because Strange doesn't have to concentrate AT ALL to cast spells. Right. I do have mastery, but I've been over that already.

Originally posted by long pig
Sure, but intense long(longer than this fight will ever be) period exposure.......When he took the brunt of the Supernova AND
Prove he could take more than a few seconds of that heat. He was scrambling around pretty desperately to stop that guy from burning him.

Okay, time to get off of the offensive here. Here's what's going to come into play in this battle:
-Kinetic drain: I can drain the kinetic energy of subatomic particles, freezing your astral form in place is no problem.
-Majestic's senses: He scans the EM spectrum with ease, can see photons as they pass by. Not only will he see through your illusions, he'll see your astral form as well.
-Matter manipulation: Black Bolt can create an antimatter bomb of sufficient power to destroy Graviton when he ahd been mutated into a walking pocket universe, and who was throwing around miniature black holes. We know it would have killed him, because he wanted to die, and decided to allow Black Bolt to kill him. The only reason he survived, is that Black Bolt showed mercy.
-Majestic's magical resistance: You should be flattered that I saved this just for this battle, long. In addition to his resistance to mental attacks, he is also able to shrug off the effects of a multitude of different spells. In a short-lived series he was in with another character named Savant, he leads a small attack force against an army of wizards and other nasty people. Not only is he said to shrug off spells that would destroy giants, he reverses the effect of a spell that was turning his body to stone. One page, his legs and one forearm is rock, the next page, he's back to normal. And, to top it off, he shrugs off magical containment spells with minimal effort. But really, this shouldn't be a surprise from a guy who flew into a sun and turned it into a binary star.


EDIT: Bahahahahahaa, I just read the issue where he casts that shield spell. Nice try long pig, he didn't summon those mirrors, they were already in the room, he just arranged them so that he could stand between them.

on Khells side i'll say causing him mental disorientation constitutes an attack

on Long's side i'll say that an astral projection has no physical mass... therefore cannot be affected by the kinetic drain... it'd be like trying to stop a telepathic message

On my side I'll say magic is teh gay. :-\

Conjuring is what Strange greatest power is. It isn't "random crap", it's conjuring EOA or conjuring the Ring...That is his power as a magician.
It's not like I'm conjuring something Strange doesn't normally have at his disposel. If I conjured a nuke, then you'd have an argument.


Prove it. Until you can prove somehow he can see someone in Astral form, I won't count your point valid.

You don't have enough mastery over your power to even begin to learn to create probes, and you'd have no reason to since you don't know I'm going to be in Astral form. No probes for you.


He can not see me in Astral form.


What part of "I HAVE NO PHYSICAL BODY" confuses you so much?
No molecules means nothing to make unmovable.
I won't be stuck at all, you're the one being stuck.....by time time compression.
Talk about immobilizing someone.



But he's a killer, that's all I need. You'll be fried.


That's rediculous. My spirit doesn't create kenetic energy.
Where are you getting these theories? Your ass?

We aren't in marvel, were in mexico.


Those mental attacks would have turned you into a retard. You'll struggle, but nothing to make a difference. Just enough for me to finish you off.


Majestic is superhuman, nothing mystical about him, these spells work on Magical beings like Odin and Dormmamu.
You aint shit compaired. They'll effect you more so than you would like to admit.


Strange is a better matter manipulator.

You haven't had enough training to make you a master, and you won't have any such concentration to do so. You'd be slobbering at this point.


Destroying the planet?? And you're saying I cheated by conjuring objects? Ha.
Strange can destroy a planet just as easily, or banish you in 2 seconds. If you want to play that way, we can.


Air tight shields like in space. There goes your strategy.
I only will get rid of the protective crystal when I feel the time is right.
Basically until your docile.
You're jumping around the fact I can stop time around you making you totally useless. While I'm still in Astral form.


Exactly, good thing I will easily be able to move my arms.
You won't get this far, that's the point you're missing.


Nice, you have about as much resistance to Magic as....a small time magician. Won't help you here.

Sorcerer Supreme>>>>>>>>>Nasty lil harry potter like wizards in Majestics books.



Moot point, I can conjure it....easily. Strange doesn't need special mirrors, any mirror will do.

You're side stepping the fact I can choose to either attack the way my first strategy, or just caste a time com pression spell around you.

I win on all accounts.

Yes, tell everyone HOW LONG that took.

Originally posted by long pig
Yes, tell everyone HOW LONG that took.

how long did it take?

Like a week or something, while using powers that he had no business with in the first place.
He went into the sun and tapped into some kind of cosmic equation, making it into a binary star and cheated a little by handling powers he had no reason to be handling at the time.

Wasn't like he went an did it under his own natural power.

Woah, woah , woah. LP, your ignorance is showing... Harry Potter hands Doctor Strange his @$$. All day every day. I said Strange is badass, but not quite that badass.

And dammit Scoob, bring back the Quagmire!

No, do brian, please...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No, do brian, please...

brian is looking very scared right now



but this isn't the off topic thread.... i wanna see more fighting

Originally posted by long pig
Conjuring is what Strange greatest power is. It isn't "random crap", it's conjuring EOA or conjuring the Ring...That is his power as a magician.
It's not like I'm conjuring something Strange doesn't normally have at his disposel. If I conjured a nuke, then you'd have an argument.
No. The EOA and Ring, I don't have a problem with, that's like letting Batman have his belt. But two big ass mirrors? Nope, sorry.

Originally posted by long pig
Prove it. Until you can prove somehow he can see someone in Astral form, I won't count your point valid.
In WildCATS, not oly was he able to see people's auras with a glance, he was able to scan the EM spectrum. If Iron Man's armor and the HULK can sense Strange in astral form, then between the powers of Majestic and Black Bolt, so can I.

Originally posted by long pig
You don't have enough mastery over your power to even begin to learn to create probes, and you'd have no reason to since you don't know I'm going to be in Astral form. No probes for you.
Yeah yeah yeah. Keep saying it, doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by long pig
He can not see me in Astral form.
Yes, actually, he can.

Originally posted by long pig
What part of "I HAVE NO PHYSICAL BODY" confuses you so much?
No molecules means nothing to make unmovable.
I won't be stuck at all, you're the one being stuck.....by time time compression.
Talk about immobilizing someone.
I'm no confused. You're the one whod oesn't seem tob e getting something. Maelstrom has absorbed the kinetic energy from a stream of ELECTRONS. That's ENERGY. And, what is an astral form made of? Oh, that's right, ENERGY. You are not moving.

Originally posted by long pig
But he's a killer, that's all I need. You'll be fried.
He's a soldier, soldiers kill. Show me Strange using it against a Vietnam or WWII vet, and maybe I'd buy that it's useful against good people too.

Originally posted by long pig
That's rediculous. My spirit doesn't create kenetic energy.
Where are you getting these theories? Your ass?
No, I'm getting it from past appearances by Maelstrom. Your astral form is energy, so was the electron stream. So were the energy blasts he was taking from the Avengers.

Originally posted by long pig
Those mental attacks would have turned you into a retard. You'll struggle, but nothing to make a difference. Just enough for me to finish you off.
They would have turned me inot a retard, yes. Not Blackstrom though. That whole "resistance to all mental attacks" thing, you know?

Originally posted by long pig
Majestic is superhuman, nothing mystical about him, these spells work on Magical beings like Odin and Dormmamu.
You aint shit compaired. They'll effect you more so than you would like to admit.
Again, just because you say something doesn't make it the truth. He has resisted and even ignored the effects of a multitude of magical attacks before, he will do it again.

Originally posted by long pig
Strange is a better matter manipulator.
Doubtful.

Originally posted by long pig
You haven't had enough training to make you a master, and you won't have any such concentration to do so. You'd be slobbering at this point.
Black Bolt as an infant had no training, and he was using them with no problem. It's also amusing that you don't seem to understand that mental attacks are a waste of time against my guy. But hey, go ahead, waste away.

Originally posted by long pig
Destroying the planet?? And you're saying I cheated by conjuring objects? Ha.
Strange can destroy a planet just as easily, or banish you in 2 seconds. If you want to play that way, we can.
Not the whole planet, I don't think. Just the part your body happens tob e standing on. And you won't be banishing anyone, because you can't move

Originally posted by long pig
Air tight shields like in space. There goes your strategy.
I only will get rid of the protective crystal when I feel the time is right.
Basically until your docile.
You're jumping around the fact I can stop time around you making you totally useless. While I'm still in Astral form.
You don't have shields up, there goes your argument. Stopping time would require movement. We've been OVER this, you're starting to sound like a broken record.

Originally posted by long pig
Exactly, good thing I will easily be able to move my arms.
You won't get this far, that's the point you're missing.
Yeah, I'M the one missing the point. Sure. You're the one who can't seem to understand that I've got you frozen, I've got the means to not only damage your astral form by itself (heat vision + electron blasts + sonic scream anyone?), I can also destroy your body AND your astral form at the same time.

Originally posted by long pig
Nice, you have about as much resistance to Magic as....a small time magician. Won't help you here.
Well, considering the fact that the army who took on was basically the people running that world, I don't think they were that small time.

Originally posted by long pig
Sorcerer Supreme>>>>>>>>>Nasty lil harry potter like wizards in Majestics books.
Army of world-dominating wizards >>>>>> Strange.

Originally posted by long pig
Moot point, I can conjure it....easily. Strange doesn't need special mirrors, any mirror will do.
No, you can't. If we were allowed to pull that kind of crap, then I could recreate Majestic's sword that has cut through the astral forms of Daemonites. It's not standard equipment, you don't get mirrors and you don't get the shield.

Originally posted by long pig
You're side stepping the fact I can choose to either attack the way my first strategy, or just caste a time com pression spell around you.
I'm not sidestepping it, because it's not a fact. You can't MOVE, there will be NO spell casting or time compressing.

Originally posted by long pig
Like a week or something, while using powers that he had no business with in the first place.
He went into the sun and tapped into some kind of cosmic equation, making it into a binary star and cheated a little by handling powers he had no reason to be handling at the time.

Wasn't like he went an did it under his own natural power.
Hey, 90% of the spells STRANGE casts are using the powers of other cosmic beings. At elast Majestic didn't have to run off asking a magical thing for help, he flew into that b*tch and did the work himself.

EDIT: And actually, if you read the entire series, he WAs destined to have those kinds of powers, he just jumped WAY ahead of schedule by necessity. In the last two issues, he ascends to a level comparable to Marvel's Abstracts. Thoguh, that last bit was retconned by the mere fact that he's back down to planet-moving power, not universal level power.

Vote for Khell.

I think it's 1-1 now.

Quick justification for the vote: I don't think the mirrors will happen, and other than brain-messing, some tentacles (both which I don't think will put Majestic out for the count), and a couple other random things, I'm a bit unsure what lp is doing for a "main attack" on Blackstrom.

Good arguments though...close fight. I retain the right to change my vote, but Khell gets it for now.

-DM

srry khell, but i'm gonna vote for long pig

And get your votes in people (and arguments in for the participants). Nat said he'll probably close this Friday or Saturday, so only a day or two left.

-DM

Oh, justifying my vote... I doubt Khell could stop the Astral form, solely because magic has a tendency to bypass things that every other type of energy cannot. (Quasar's constructs, Surfer has no control over magic, etc) Also, there's definitely a difference between stuff like mental confusion and mental assault. Assaults are usually shrugged off by willpower, where stuff like confusion spells tend to be more insidious. Almost like the difference between Guerilla tactics and a massive assault.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Oh, justifying my vote... I doubt Khell could stop the Astral form, solely because magic has a tendency to bypass things that every other type of energy cannot. (Quasar's constructs, Surfer has no control over magic, etc) Also, there's definitely a difference between stuff like mental confusion and mental assault. Assaults are usually shrugged off by willpower, where stuff like confusion spells tend to be more insidious. Almost like the difference between Guerilla tactics and a massive assault.
In his first series, a group of women, at least one of whom could effect peoples minds with magic, was keeping him docile... for all of a few moments. He wasn't being controlled, his mind was being muddled. Once he overcame that, she/they couldn't bring him back under control.

In his most recent series, Majestic has his body invaded by more than half a dozen Daemonites in their astral forms. They are straight up trying to take over his mind, and he rejects them almost immediately. The point is, he's dealt with both kinds of mental intrusion and fought them both off.

And Silver Surfer and Quasar had their inability to weakness specifically written in, while Majestic has been shown to repeatedly overcome several kinds of magical attacks. It's just how he was created.

Uh, yeah, I know what kinetic means. The fact is, Maelstrom can and has stopped energy using his powers. You, being energy, are subject to being frozen.

Not happening.. Astral form is basically my soul flying around.

But to counter it anyway.

He'd first have no know I'm there, which you won't THEN you'd have to know exactly how to use a technique which takes losts of skill, which you don't have.

But since it won't happen, it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by long pig
He'd first have no know I'm there, which you won't
I have TWO seperate ways of detecting you, actually.

Originally posted by long pig
THEN you'd have to know exactly how to use a technique which takes losts of skill, which you don't have.
What technique are you talking about? The kinetic absorption? That's automatic, he is constantly drawing on low levels of kinetic energy, the only thing he has to do is decide how much to absorb. In this case, all of it. Maelstrom has absorbed the kinetic energy of electrons. Of a single neutron. He stole the kinetic energy of a cosmic being who was immune to ALL conventional forms off attack. Maelstrom just grabbed him by the neck, drained him dry, and took his place in the universe. Stopping your little astral form is NOT going to be a problem.

No molecular motion equals no kenetic energy, therefore your trick won't work. Sorry.

Don't try to talk around when you know it's true.


Good for him. Astral form doesn't contain electrons. It contains no atoms, no molecules.

Won't work.
It'd be like trying to steal the energy from someones thought. Or from someone's spirit.


Great, I bet the cosmic being had molecules, didn't he? Yeah he did.


You can't steal kinetic energy from something that doesn't make kinetic energy. You'll be too confused and time controlled to try.

You can't really do....anything actually.

Originally posted by Khellendros
And Silver Surfer and Quasar had their inability to weakness specifically written in, while Majestic has been shown to repeatedly overcome several kinds of magical attacks. It's just how he was created.

I meant that I dunno if Maelstrom's abilities would work on the astral form, even though he's drained energy before, because magic is simply NOT any type of energy... If he's used it against anything that's magic before, please do tell.

When did it become true that Astral form was a type of energy?

It has gotten past energy detectors before, the FF's actually.

Hmmmmm... Good arguments on both sides.... long gets my vote.

Blackstorm's tough, but magic seems to be a trump card in nearly every battle. And Strange is no fool.

Vote for longpig.

Magneto was unable to sense Xavier in Astral form.....
Magneto's EM capabilities are >>>>>>>>>>> Ironman's.

When did this Ironman thing happen? He wasn't in magic armor was he?

I am going to vote for long pig.
Reasons: I think you guys have both given great arguements but Long Pig has me convinced he can screw woth Kheel's guy's mind.

Originally posted by long pig
When did this Ironman thing happen? He wasn't in magic armor was he?
Latest iddue of New Avengers. IM did a scan of a building he was about to walk into, and it identified everyone in there including Strange in astral form.

Originally posted by newjak86
I am going to vote for long pig.
Reasons: I think you guys have both given great arguements but Long Pig has me convinced he can screw woth Kheel's guy's mind.
Wow. Of all the ways I thought I might be losing this debate, I didn't think it would be based on the mental attacks aspect. Oh well.

Originally posted by long pig
Originally posted by long pig
No molecular motion equals no kenetic energy, therefore your trick won't work. Sorry.
And yet, he's stopped other things with no molecules before Don't be sorry, it WILL work.

Originally posted by long pig
Don't try to talk around when you know it's true.
Do me a favor and don't tell me what I know. I'm actually convinced I CAN stop you, or I would have tried a different tactic.

Originally posted by long pig
Good for him. Astral form doesn't contain electrons. It contains no atoms, no molecules.
The point is that he's stopped energy before. No matter what kind, your astral form IS energy, and I CAN stop it.

Originally posted by long pig
Great, I bet the cosmic being had molecules, didn't he? Yeah he did.
Yes, he was also a cosmic being immune to ALL conventional forms of harm. I'm thinking it would be a little harder to kill him than it would be to just STOP Strange.

Originally posted by long pig
You can't steal kinetic energy from something that doesn't make kinetic energy. You'll be too confused and time controlled to try.
Fortunately, you WILL make kinetic energy. And I won't be confused, because I will shrug off your little spells in moments.

Originally posted by long pig
You can't really do....anything actually.
Actually, I can do several things. Go back and reread if you're having trouble remembering.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wow. Of all the ways I thought I might be losing this debate, I didn't think it would be based on the mental attacks aspect. Oh well. It's just that you idea assumes that you can overcome his magical attacks. You have shown instances when he concentrated he overcame a few spells from low level people but that is it. From what you say he isn't immune and that he has to focus to overcome it. Strange is no slouch as Sorceror Upreme and the number of Magical Attacks he has to overcome means he could focus on all of them. But it is still close I could still change my vote.

Until Malestrom starts absorbing kinetic energy of magic souls and thought, your point isn't valid.

No molecules means no kinetic energy, I keep telling you this.

You keep saying "Well, he's controlled energy before".
What kind of energy? When? Where? How? The energy he absorbed CAME from kinetic motion, Astral form does not, can not create kinetic motion.

Who says Astral form is energy?
Magneto can't sense it, the Fantastic Four's energy sensors that protect their building can't sense it.....but Ironman can?
It's doubtful.

Hmm...4-1 lp right now.

Keep voting though if you're reading this and haven't voted.

-DM

Originally posted by long pig
Who says Astral form is energy?
Magneto can't sense it, the Fantastic Four's energy sensors that protect their building can't sense it.....but Ironman can?
It's doubtful.

he can actually ... i completely forgot about that but it did happen in the last New Avengers issue..... IM detects strange in his astral from just before he enters a room to speak to him (and others)

Originally posted by Scoobless
he can actually ... i completely forgot about that but it did happen in the last New Avengers issue..... IM detects strange in his astral from just before he enters a room to speak to him (and others)
What armor was he wearing? The normal armor?

What was he scanning for/with? Anyone know what issue number it is?

Will be closing this in a few hours. Get your votes in.

hey Nat.... as our newly elected thread head..... can i hear a ruling on whether the mirror thing is allowed (Long Pig creating them to create the shield) ..... it may be important in making my decision

Originally posted by long pig
What armor was he wearing? The normal armor?

What was he scanning for/with? Anyone know what issue number it is?

his current regular armour.... it's the latest issue... 9?... (i think it's 9)

found it.....

ok... it's issue 7 .... lol

.....

and closer.....

Yes but ib that scan it doesn't look like Strange is trying to hide.

why does astral Strange get a chair? it's not like he'll get tired floating around pretending to stand like a normal person......

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes but ib that scan it doesn't look like Strange is trying to hide.

it's only there to prove that Iron Man can detect astral forms

Originally posted by Scoobless
it's only there to prove that Iron Man can detect astral forms Yeah but would that work if Strange didn't want to be seen.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yeah but would that work if Strange didn't want to be seen.

i have absolutely no idea....

Originally posted by Scoobless
i have absolutely no idea.... Me either

So, he's sitting there and everyone can see him?
Then, Ironman sees him 100ft away?

But in every single other Astral appearance, no one sees him even those with complete control over the EM spectrum and sensors made to detect energy sources....

He obviously was making himself able to be seen. Kinda like when he appears to Namor or others who can't sense him.

Here, when he wants to be seen, he can be by anyone, including non-mystics like Ironman or Namor.
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/1161/defenders1ffsxtvp0111bw.jpg

i suppose i have to vote... as it stands, i don't think the mental muddling will have too much affect, but the triple shield is a solid idea (if it's allowed) seems like astral forms can be detected and it's been shown that they are not immune to damage through heat or radiation

strength doesn't really come into play here as one character is intangible......

if a scan gets posted showing Majestics "energy detection" abilities i may reconsider... but i'm voting Long Pig right now...... because he can still definitely affect Blackstrom and i can't say the opposite is true if Blackstrom can't see LP's guy (whatever his name is)

so Long Pig gets my vote....(for the moment)

Originally posted by long pig
So, he's sitting there and everyone can see him?
Then, Ironman sees him 100ft away?

well... it happened the other way around but yeah

Originally posted by long pig
But in every single other Astral appearance, no one sees him even those with complete control over the EM spectrum and sensors made to detect energy sources....

well..... apparently IM can.... his computer even knew to say it was an astral form.... so it must have been pre-programmed to recognise that energy type

That art is sooooo bad...

Originally posted by long pig
That art is sooooo bad...

on your scan... yes

on mine...... no

Horrid isn't it? Blah...

My point was, Ironman was only able to pick up the Astral form because Strange was making it so that others could perceive him.

Originally posted by long pig
Horrid isn't it? Blah...

My point was, Ironman was only able to pick up the Astral form because Strange was making it so that others could perceive him. He has a point and when Strange doesn't want to be seen then it seems no can pick up the Astral Form.

Originally posted by newjak86
He has a point and when Strange doesn't want to be seen then it seems no can pick up the Astral Form.

maybe.... but the fact that he can become invisible while astral doesn't necessarily mean people like IM couldn't detect him..... are there any issues or pics to back up that claim?

and it isn't unheard of for bother beings with mental abilities (which i think mr M does have) to detect astral projections that try to remain hidden

Nate Grey did it to Prof X when he was new to MUE... and he wasn't even that well trained

Yes long pig do you have any issue or scans for it.

Mr.Majestic has what type of mental abilities? None were listed.
Nate Grey is a natural telepath of a high order....you think Majestic's mental abilities are on par with Grey's?

I don't really memorize issue numbers but I do remember Xavier not being detected by Magneto and Strange not being detected by FF's security sensors.
But no, I can't prove it at all.

Originally posted by Scoobless
and it isn't unheard of for bother beings with mental abilities (which i think mr M does have) to detect astral projections that try to remain hidden
Holy SH*T Scoob, I totally forgot about that! Mr. Majestic is a low level telepath! God, the man has so many pwers, I'm forgetting some lol. Anyways, he's displayed the telepathy in the past, but the most impressive use was in his newest series. The entire population of Earth has been kidnapped, and when he finds them, he reads their minds to find out what happened. Then, in the next issue, he reroutes data from the damaged living computer that runs the ship holding them through the dormant kidnapped species minds (it had kidnaped hundreds of worlds worth of people). I'll post scans in a bit. So there, that's a third way of sensing the astral form.

Eh, so you'll see me as I'm compressing time around you.

Okay, here he is reading the mind of one of the humans while they are stuck in ice, seeing the last memory they had before being transported onto the ship:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Flint66606/MajesticTelepathy1.jpg

And later, here's Majestic explaining how he's going to fix the computer by linking all billions and billions of minds to the living computer running the ship: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Flint66606/MajesticTelepathy2.jpg

And, here's what it looks like when an alien supercomputer is telepathically linked tot he population of Earth, among others: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Flint66606/MajesticTelepathy3.jpg


Originally posted by long pig
Eh, so you'll see me as I'm compressing time around you.
Naah, I'll see you as I'm freezing you in midair.

Nothing to freeze, no molecules.

You do realize those illusions of Strange's each have mid-level telepathic abilities of their own, enough to where they could get into Loki's mind.....all 10, all against you.
It'll be a regular mind gang bang and you're the catcher!

It won't take but a second, too much on your platter to really fully concentraite on me.

Originally posted by long pig
Nothing to freeze, no molecules.

You do realize those illusions of Strange's each have mid-level telepathic abilities of their own, enough to where they could get into Loki's mind.....all 10, all against you.
It'll be a regular mind gang bang and you're the catcher!

It won't take but a second, too much on your platter to really fully concentraite on me.
Telepathic power + magical resistance + BB's ability to counter telepathy >>> weak ass illusions.

And we've been over the other. I can freeze energy, and I wil do so here.

*Derived from kinetic motion, you keep forgetting to mention that....


Magical resistance, I've yet to see any such thing.
When your body is resisitant to magic as, say...Dormmamu, then we can talk.

Originally posted by long pig
*Derived from kinetic motion, you keep forgetting to mention that....


Magical resistance, I've yet to see any such thing.
No, he aborbs the kinetic energy, he freezes the source of said kinetic energy.

And, sorry, I don't keep scans of every Majestic appearance I've ever read on the computer, just his most recent series.

There is no source for kinetic energy here, no molecules=no motion=no kinetic energy.

I wasn't expecting scans, just I can't find anything about magical resistance anywhere on the net.

Originally posted by long pig
argh, didn't come out all the way...nevermind.
O_o Okay.

Originally posted by long pig
There is no source for kinetic energy here, no molecules=no motion=no kinetic energy.

I wasn't expecting scans, just I can't find anything about magical resistance anywhere on the net.
But have you found a page that says he has telepthy either? There aren't many pages on him, and most of them aren't indepth.

Well, that's the double edge sword of picking an abscure character.

As for the conjuring debate.



I could make mirrors out of anything, conjuring things is what master mages do.

Could turn a cat into a mirror, anything. Kinda like firelord, hell, I probably could the same to you if you don't have complete control over your molecules.

Also, for the monkey business of the Astral plane.



Basically saying the laws of science doesn't apply on the Astral form, they are unbound by scientific/physical laws...i.e kinetic energy and such.

Originally posted by long pig
Also, for the monkey business of the Astral plane.



Basically saying the laws of science doesn't apply on the Astral form, they are unbound by scientific/physical laws...i.e kinetic energy and such.

it may say that.... but you have also proven youreslf that it can still be harmed by natural means.... such as radiation or heat.... so it isn't outside all physical laws

Originally posted by long pig
Well, that's the double edge sword of picking an abscure character.

As for the conjuring debate.



I could make mirrors out of anything, conjuring things is what master mages do.

Could turn a cat into a mirror, anything. Kinda like firelord, hell, I probably could the same to you if you don't have complete control over your molecules.
One, it says he can conjure small things. Two, it says that when he turns one thing into another, it only stays that way while he wills it to. So, not only would he have to concentrate to keep the mirros in existance, he has to perform a spell that is not only risky, but requires complex movements and complete concentration to perform.
On top of that, my point from the start is that you shouldn't be able to do it during this tournament. It was my uderstanding that we just came into this with the standard equipment, but if it's not, someone tell me, so I can start creating some of Majestic's weapons with BB's matter manipulation, like the aforementioned sword that cuts through the astral forms of Daemonites.

The radiation of the magical star created by the magical sun wizard ?
Is that what you're referring to??
There was nothing natural about that magically created star.

Regular physical laws don't apply to the Astral plane, DS#6 Astral form goes from a park to into the middle of the earth in a second or two, in the middle of the lava the Astral form was fine, only until the magical lava of Dormmamu did it effect the Astral form.

I'd only need the mirrors for a few seconds, and since Strange has the greatest will of any human, willing it into place isn't a big deal.

It's a power that Strange has, if BB has ever created something material and you think you could do it without his mind and just rudimentary knowledge of BB's power, then by all means do it.

Long pig wins 5-1

Originally posted by long pig
The radiation of the magical star created by the magical sun wizard ?
Is that what you're referring to??
There was nothing natural about that magically created star.
Prove it was magical. Strange never says it was magical. This site: http://marvunapp.com/Appendix/stygyr.htm says he can take on the properties of a star, not a magical star. That thing was only putting out regular heat and radiation, not magic.

EDIT: WEEELLLL never mind. Christ, 5-1. Oh well.

Proof is in the pudding.

He's a Wizard with sun powers, logic leads to thinking it's magical sun powers since those sun powers were DERIVED from magic.

Uhh, you do know Nataku already declared you the winner, right?

No...

I didn't....

Good game Khell.

But then, Nataku comes out of left field and steals the win :: gasp :: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :: Dances around ::

thank you thank you....

:: Sigh :: If only. good job to both of you.