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many believe that without his weaknesses that ss can so easily exploit, superman could beat ss. can the world's mightiest mortal do it?

oh, and i looked for this thread. if it HAS been made i didn't see it, though i admit i was surprised it hadn't been done.

The first thing kgkg is gonna say is that Norrin is too fast.

Well when Norrin fought Thor and lost his speed wasnt a factor so I dont see why it would be here.

at the risk of earning kg's wrath () i'd tend to agree with you. + the magic lightning. i think cm has a great chance here.

Well Storm lighting did hurt him.

I wonder what CMs lighting would do to him?

He just has to knock Norrin off his board, and its over for Surfer.

well, considering he;s had a magic dagger thrust through his body, i'd say his chances against the magic lightning aren't all that favorable . . .

course, SOMEONE'S bound to disagree . . .

He could teleport his board to the Rock of Eternity I guess.

Norrin is alot weaker without his board.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, considering he;s had a magic dagger thrust through his body, i'd say his chances against the magic lightning aren't all that favorable . . .

course, SOMEONE'S bound to disagree . . .

They always do.

Silver Surfer wins

He is more powerful than BRB, Quasar, Adam , Strange , Champion need I say more.

And ya he can do virtually anything, am sure you guys heard of Captain Marvel.

Surfer still wins. A bit more difficult though. Marvel doesn't have that K-nite weakness, and his powers are magical based. Storm's lightning practically gave Surfer an orgasm. It didn't hurt him. Surfer will win. But not easily.

SS > all other heros many times you will see Silver Surfer to be the most powerful.

CM is not more powerful than BRB , Strange , Worklock

Originally posted by snoopdogg
He could teleport his board to the Rock of Eternity I guess.

Norrin is alot weaker without his board.
How is he going to teleport his board, SS can rip his body to piece by changing and smashing his atoms in space/time?

And even if he is at rock of eternity SS can go to any dimension by ripping space and time space and time

And is CM resistant to matter manipulation, I don’t think so.

<<SS can rip his body to piece by changing and smashing his atoms in space/time?>>

name one fight where ss won by doing this to an opponent. he changed obliterator's weapons, but didn't touch pbliterator himself.

Here's how I see it...

Thor > Cpt. Marvel (Shazam)
Surfer = Thor (possibly a little better even)

Surfer takes it, but Billy puts up a good fight.

-DM

yeah, i tend to agree. i'd say ss 7/10. if cm had supes durability, i'd give hm better chances. i'm also not convinced he's as fast OR as . . . mean/nasty as supes can sometimes get in a war like this one would be.

course, i'm not sure the effect the lightning would have. i may be underestimating its effects, i'm not sure.

Il'll go with Surfer, more often than not. CM does stand a chance, but I don't think avoiding CM's lightining would be a big problem for Surfer. Most of the time, Surfer takes this.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<SS can rip his body to piece by changing and smashing his atoms in space/time?>>

name one fight where ss won by doing this to an opponent. he changed obliterator's weapons, but didn't touch pbliterator himself.

He has turned people into stone with little effort, however. It's a viable tactic here.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
They always do.

Basher...

<<Il'll go with Surfer, more often than not. CM does stand a chance, but I don't think avoiding CM's lightining would be a big problem for Surfer. Most of the time, Surfer takes this.>>

depends - it's magical and sort of just 'appears'. ss likely wouldn't have any sense of it before it actually strikes him. i think cm could hit him with it, i'm just not sure it would be enough to put ss down.

and i'm not sure where i stand with the turning to stone argument, cc. this gets into one of the areas i HATE in these vs threads - if he's able to do that whenever he wants, why doesn't he? and don't say it's because all the fights would be boring. ss seems to NEVER be shown using ALL his power because ALL his fights would be too boring. ss's been in some VERY dire straights against opponents and never turned THEM to stone - or anything else. it would have come in handy v mad thor - -they wouldn't have had to go to thanos! and didn't he have some mental block or something about changing organic matter? then he overcame it and now he can? still, to be viable, i think it needs to be shown with more frequency and against people of cm's level. it's similar to me to the superman becoming intangible thing. i (personally) don't consider THAT viable either, for the same reason. but, that may be just me . . .

The lightning comes from the wizard Shazam. Surfer could use telepathy and predict the lightning. He'd have no problem dodging it, since lightning only travels at about 40% lightspeed, and Surfer's beyond lightspeed.

Who has Surfer fought, in a dire situation, while bloodlusted, and has had the option of turning them to stone, and didn't? Mad Thor isn't a good example. Surfer certainly wasn't bloodlusted, and Thor's got a lot to answer with. Simply because he hasn't used the ability in certain situations doesn't mean that he doesn't possess it. That's the purpose of the vs forum. In a comic book, it's the writer's call. On this board, anything goes.

Stan Lee intended the Silver Surfer to be every bit as powerful as he is portrayed at his best. Surfer has used his power to transmute his opponents matter more than once, and he has done so pretty recently. This isn't like Thor stopping time. Such an ability can't be simply dismissed.

I love Captain Marvel (CM) threads, and I just don't know why...

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Il'll go with Surfer, more often than not. CM does stand a chance, but I don't think avoiding CM's lightining would be a big problem for Surfer. Most of the time, Surfer takes this.>>

depends - it's magical and sort of just 'appears'. ss likely wouldn't have any sense of it before it actually strikes him. i think cm could hit him with it, i'm just not sure it would be enough to put ss down.

and i'm not sure where i stand with the turning to stone argument, cc. this gets into one of the areas i HATE in these vs threads - if he's able to do that whenever he wants, why doesn't he? and don't say it's because all the fights would be boring. ss seems to NEVER be shown using ALL his power because ALL his fights would be too boring. ss's been in some VERY dire straights against opponents and never turned THEM to stone - or anything else. it would have come in handy v mad thor - -they wouldn't have had to go to thanos! and didn't he have some mental block or something about changing organic matter? then he overcame it and now he can? still, to be viable, i think it needs to be shown with more frequency and against people of cm's level. it's similar to me to the superman becoming intangible thing. i (personally) don't consider THAT viable either, for the same reason. but, that may be just me . . .
Not enough to put SS down, a well written SS won't even fell anything

He took hit from entire Avenger when amped.

Took world destroying attack from Korvac

And SS is better than Thor , Drax , Champion you name it , marvel has basically stated many times SS is the most powerful.

And manipulation will always work on CM , and he can also turn him into his board like CM ( marvel)

he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?

Originally posted by leonidas
he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?
Magic dagger that gutted him ?

Did you read that issue?

It wasn't magic only: it was cosmic (SS own) , and other energies + magic

And second time is when SS was drained.

And how does CM stop him from tuning him to energy and making him one with his board?

Originally posted by leonidas
he'd feel it like he felt the magic dagger that gutted him. still not sure it would be enough. and part of the problem we always have between us (cc and kg and others) i try to see a fight in regards as to how it would be portrayed in a comic. you guys don't. not saying you're wrong - in fact, I'M probably wrong considering this formet in the forums, but the format seems illogical to me. you get 2 guys fighting in ways they NEVER would. that's why i don't like it. and who's to say cm doesn't have some magical aura that would block the attack and not allow him to be turned to stone? and ss was pretty lusted against morg. AND why would he HAVE to be bloodlusted? he could just turn the person back to normal anyway! as a pacifist, it seems the greatest attack. no injury, just end a battle simply and cleanly, cart the villain off to wherever he's gonna go, then change him back. gotta be more to it than that, or he'd use the power more.

and cm's lightning is a manifestation of ZEUS'S power, not granted by shazam. that was actually well and truly proven in another thread. and i'd think the lightning would strike the OBJECT cm wants it to hit, not the PLACE where cm thinks the object might be. and besides all of that, ss's been hit by too many people to number to say the lightning wouldn't hit him. and telepathy? when has he read the mind of another character and predicted an attack? i always thought his was a passive telepathy - ie - allowed him to control his board.

and supes has turned intangible (a couple times according to some 'round here) guess that supes thor debate is ended then?

I'm not sure if he can turn people back to normal after transmuting them. Morg has control over his own molecules. Turning him to stone wouldn't work.

Shazam (the wizard) has a portion of Zeus's power. The lightning comes from Shazam, not Zeus himself. Surfer could generate lightning, and turn him back into Billy.

CM's lightning has a homing effect now?

Surfer once mind controlled the entire Earth with his telepathy. It's not just passive.

Everyone gets hit. That's a one of the rules of being in an interesting fight. Doesn't mean it should happen, especially if he's on top of his game.

Superman became invisible twice. "Intangible" once. There are still quite a few factors in that fight.

I don't see why turning CM into stone wouldn't work.

<<Shazam (the wizard) has a portion of Zeus's power. The lightning comes from Shazam, not Zeus himself. >>

huh?? got proof?

<<I'm not sure if he can turn people back to normal after transmuting them. Morg has control over his own molecules. Turning him to stone wouldn't work.>>

so he could change anyone below HERALD level (warlock, strange, thor, gladiator) into stone . . .? for some reason, i'm thinking that's not the case. and if he can control matter (organic AND inorganic) why the heck COULDN'T he change them back??

<<Surfer once mind controlled the entire Earth with his telepathy. It's not just passive.>.

so how is controlling someone the same as reading their mind and predicting an attack? are you saying now that he could simply possess cm mentally and shut him down? are you friggin' kidding me . . . and you guys crack on supes' peeps for saying THEY add new powers to HIM all the time!

<<CM's lightning has a homing effect now?>>

seems reasonable. why wouldn't it? it IS magical . . . and besides, show me a scan where he's ever missed with it. and you think ANY lightning would change cm back to billy? funny, i thought it was the magic properties that did it. does that mean any lightning bolt that hits jimmy olson will turn him INTO cm?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340458&highlight=silver+surfer+shazam

We have been through this before.

If silver surfer can destroy a star, captain marvel will be like a little ant's baby

It was in AOS. Superman was possessed by Eclipso. The lighting was coming from Shazam, not Zeus.

Surfer could turn Morg into stone. Morg could change himself back. Not sure about Thor. Strange probably has some form of protection against it, knowing him. Gladiator could be turned to stone. Anyone who can't control their atoms, or somehow magically protect themselves is fair game. Matter transmutation is cheap. Even Sersi rarely uses it againt foes.

I'm not sure whether he can change them back to normal or not. The fact remains that he can change them into stone.

It's not a new power. You may not have been familiar with it. Surfer is an omega level telepath.

Jimmy Olsen isn't Captain Marvel. My info came from jrodslam. He said that any lightning would turn CM into Billy, and that's why he dodges it. Go figure. At any rate, Surfer synthesized the Odinforce. Why not Zeus's magic?

The fact that it's magic would suggest that it has homing capabilities? Thor has magical lightning too. I've never seen it seek out a target.

I never said that Superman's fans add powers. But, in debates involving Supes, facts often go ignored. I didn't add any powers to Surfer. Consult Stan Lee.

surfer crushes cm easy surfer is just all around better

magic is no match 4 the power cosmic

This thread should be merged with the other one.

Surfer:
Matter-manipulation, the power reserves of stars, traveling at lightspeed, ability to endow himself with Class 100 strength, a resistanance to telepathy, ability to stand at the center of a super-nova without breaking a sweat, energy manipulation powers allowing him to absorb almost any type of energy...

Marvel:
Wisdom of Solomon, Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, Power of Zeus, Courage of Achilles, and Speed Mercury.

Surfer takes this.

<<The fact that it's magic would suggest that it has homing capabilities?>>

show it missing his target. and perhaps you didn't add any, but you're calling on ones he uses next to never. omega telepath, eh. hmm, seems he should use that ability a lot more often as it would probably come in handy and an infinity of situations.

a summary fo events from Adventures in the DC Universe, Issue 15:

Cap finds that the lightning bolt which transforms him acting erratically. As Billy Batson, he retains the power of Captain Marvel and as Captain Marvel, he is no more powerful than an ordinary mortal. The wizard SHAZAM deduces that the gods who are the source of Captain Marvel's power may be at the root of the problem. SHAZAM learns that Zeus has decided to test Billy by altering his magical lightning. Meanwhile, Billy, with the help of a young boy, raid a criminal's lair. Billy bluffs the criminals by entering their lair as Captain Marvel, despite the fact that because of Zeus's interference, he is powerless. This act of bravado wins the respect of Zeus, who agrees to restore Captain Marvel's powers to their original form.

the lightning is a manifestation of the power of zeus, like his strength is a manifestation of the strength of hercules, etc . . . and yah, i'd think zeus's lightning would likely hit its intended target.

btw, i'd love to see one instance of ss being an omega level telepath (aside from the mind control example you mentioned earlier) and i'd like to know the situation behind his controlling every mind on earth. what issue? unless it was very recent, odds are i have it and may have just forgotten the incident somehow.

Originally posted by leonidas
a summary fo events from Adventures in the DC Universe, Issue 15:

Cap finds that the lightning bolt which transforms him acting erratically. As Billy Batson, he retains the power of Captain Marvel and as Captain Marvel, he is no more powerful than an ordinary mortal. The wizard SHAZAM deduces that the gods who are the source of Captain Marvel's power may be at the root of the problem. SHAZAM learns that Zeus has decided to test Billy by altering his magical lightning. Meanwhile, Billy, with the help of a young boy, raid a criminal's lair. Billy bluffs the criminals by entering their lair as Captain Marvel, despite the fact that because of Zeus's interference, he is powerless. This act of bravado wins the respect of Zeus, who agrees to restore Captain Marvel's powers to their original form.

the lightning is a manifestation of the power of zeus, like his strength is a manifestation of the strength of hercules, etc . . . and yah, i'd think zeus's lightning would likely hit its intended target.

btw, i'd love to see one instance of ss being an omega level telepath (aside from the mind control example you mentioned earlier) and i'd like to know the situation behind his controlling every mind on earth. what issue? unless it was very recent, odds are i have it and may have just forgotten the incident somehow.
What if SS fazes through his light if it could scratch him?

And how is Cm going resist being turned into stones, gas, and energy

Or worst part of SS board.

That’s just a sample of SS powers.

CM is not as durable as SS and his attacks are no where near as powerful as angry Silver Surfer.

Speed – Silver Surfer

i think ss would win the majority. i already said that. but i think it's fair to say cm could get maybe 3/10.

and kg, do you agree with cube that ss is an omega level telepath? (which would put him on par with what, godlike cable, rachel summers when she was phoenix)

and what's YOUR thought on why he doesn't just turn everyone to stone then back again? if he can do these things and doesn't, there must be a reason beyond 'it would make fights boring'.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think ss would win the majority. i already said that. but i think it's fair to say cm could get maybe 3/10.

and kg, do you agree with cube that ss is an omega level telepath? (which would put him on par with what, godlike cable, rachel summers when she was phoenix)

and what's YOUR thought on why he doesn't just turn everyone to stone then back again? if he can do these things and doesn't, there must be a reason beyond 'it would make fights boring'.
I wouldn’t say Omega level telepath, but close (Tho sometimes he has shown those feats)

He did put down God like Cable like a child.


Everyone such as whom?
1) He doesn't need to (if they are much stronger than him chances are they are matter manipulators as well)
2.) SS is never trying to attack.

But if he needs to do it he will

Spider Man, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, and Caves etc his matter manipulations power is also at a high level.

He rather not mess with organic life that much

His battle with Cable ( they were destroying building , and fixing them ) going a high speed ( he is that good).

Telepathy isn't Surfer's only power.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Jimmy Olsen isn't Captain Marvel. My info came from jrodslam. He said that any lightning would turn CM into Billy, and that's why he dodges it. Go figure. At any rate, Surfer synthesized the Odinforce. Why not Zeus's magic?

The fact that it's magic would suggest that it has homing capabilities? Thor has magical lightning too. I've never seen it seek out a target.

I dont remember saying that. Not ANY lightning would turn CM back into Billy. I was reffering to his own lightning. Thats why he dodges his own.

Although ive heard that he does have the ability to hurl lightning at a target like Zeus.

Sorry for the mixup.

<<I dont remember saying that. Not ANY lightning would turn CM back into Billy. I was reffering to his own lightning. Thats why he dodges his own.
Although ive heard that he does have the ability to hurl lightning at a target like Zeus.
Sorry for the mixup.>>

thanks for clearing it up. it sounded sort of suspicious considering your other posts are usually pretty damned well informed.

<<Although ive heard that he does have the ability to hurl lightning at a target like Zeus.>>

i'll have to try and verify that. i can't say i've ever seen it, but he's got a long history. and i've always wondered why (since he does share some power with zeus) that he COULDN'T do that. seems natural.

SHAZAM is the name of the wizard. Billy's name is not Shazam. It's Captain Marvel. Shazam gets his lightning from Zeus. Billy gets his power from Shazam. It's third hand lightning, get it? No seriously, the lightning doesn't come from Zeus himself. It comes from Shazam's hands.

At any rate, Surfer was able to synthesize the Odinpower. Why not Shazam's lightning?

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Although ive heard that he does have the ability to hurl lightning at a target like Zeus.>>

i'll have to try and verify that. i can't say i've ever seen it, but he's got a long history. and i've always wondered why (since he does share some power with zeus) that he COULDN'T do that. seems natural.

He's not throwing the lightning. He's summoning it from Shazam. I've never seen or heard of his lightning homing in on anyone. There's a BIG difference between Billy Batson and Shazam, much less, Billy Batson and Zeus.

okay, let's suppose (and i'm far from convinced of the fact) that we are right. so, zeus gives shazam lightning and this is the lightning cm uses. what difference does it make even IF you are correct?? it is still zeus's lightning! are you saying shazam . . . what? dilutes it or something? someone passes me a beer and i pass that beer to the next person, i don't change the beer. even supposing you're assumption is correct, i don't see how that changes anything.

and i'm not sure if he can throw the lightning. a little research may be in order.

Originally posted by leonidas
okay, let's suppose (and i'm far from convinced of the fact) that we are right. so, zeus gives shazam lightning and this is the lightning cm uses. what difference does it make even IF you are correct?? it is still zeus's lightning! are you saying shazam . . . what? dilutes it or something? someone passes me a beer and i pass that beer to the next person, i don't change the beer. even supposing you're assumption is correct, i don't see how that changes anything.

and i'm not sure if he can throw the lightning. a little research may be in order.

It's still Zeus's lightning. Correct. Regardless of that fact, it doesn't have a homing property, and it has never displayed one. You merely speculated that it should, since it's magical. I disagreed. That's what we were debating.

<<You merely speculated that it should, since it's magical. I disagreed. That's what we were debating.>>

okay, so to win the debate, all you need to do is show me the lightning MISSING its intended target somewhere.

so, any evidence to support your claim yet . . .?

If Captain Marvel can hold his own against the Spectre he can definately get some wins over Norrin Radd.

Spectre is way above Norrin Radd.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Captain Marvel can hold his own against the Spectre he can definately get some wins over Norrin Radd.

Spectre is way above Norrin Radd.
hold his own agaisn't spectre ya , like spectre was full powered ( Spectre can't beat a a human at times)


CM has been k.O by a punch before.

Originally posted by kgkg
hold his own agaisn't spectre ya , like spectre was full powered ( Spectre can't beat a a human at times)


CM has been k.O by a punch before. Are you reading Day of Vengeance?

He took out Dr. Fate and the Phatnom Stranger with ease.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Captain Marvel can hold his own against the Spectre he can definately get some wins over Norrin Radd.

Spectre is way above Norrin Radd.

I don't know much about D.C. but i always thought that Specter was far too inconsistent. ALthough even when he is at a low level, he should be moe powerful than Silver Surfer. Spectre was the only guy in the JLA and Avengers crossover who did anything in least bit impressive (apart form Chronos, and Grandamaster). So ihave a lot of respect for the uy even though this is my only example of him doing anythng impressive.

Originally posted by kgkg



CM has been k.O by a punch before. When?

Norrin was k.o.'d but a girl once

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Are you reading Day of Vengeance?

He took out Dr. Fate and the Phatnom Stranger with ease.
yep read well snoop

CM has touble with Wonder Woman , he has trouble beating superman

Originally posted by kgkg
yep read well snoop

CM has touble with Wonder Woman , he has trouble beating superman You said he was k.o.'d

When?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
When?

Norrin was k.o.'d but a girl once
his is was time was being altered in #21 or close to it

Norrin was K.o where? by a girl?

don't give me example of drained , weak Norrin which is not the case.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
When?

Norrin was k.o.'d but a girl once


Thats a bit sexist. Ill have you know that i have girls as slaves and i have some respect for them. They can cook , clean and evrything.

When did Marvel fight spectre ?

In the Day of Vengeance mini series.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
In the Day of Vengeance mini series.

What was the general outcome.

P.S. only joking about the chicks.

Originally posted by yahman
What was the general outcome.

P.S. only joking about the chicks. Its only on isse #4 of 6.

He ends up getting the worse of the fight but hold Spectre off for quite awhile.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Its only on isse #4 of 6.

He ends up getting the worse of the fight but hold Spectre off for quite awhile.

Mann Spetctre is so frikin in consistent !!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Its only on isse #4 of 6.

He ends up getting the worse of the fight but hold Spectre off for quite awhile.

I'm starting to think they should just allow DBZ on these threads..the claims being made here are so ridiculous...they fit right in.

<<CM has been k.O by a punch before.>>

<<When?
Norrin was k.o.'d but a girl once>>

i'm not sure about the punch, but i know nebula the dreaded and fierce 'space pirate' (well after gauntlet episode and not exactly a cosmic threat!) ko'd ss arse with a friggin' gun! some neuralizer ray. one shot, nighty-night ss.

you know by now not to use the low points of a character for reference kg. ALL characters have them.