Tolkien on Sexuality

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Smodden
A member of the family e-mailed this letter to me...confused

What do you think?

From Father to Son--J.R.R. Tolkien on Sex

Smodden

Naib
interesting to say the least, albeit somewhat less to my liking in all honesty

it gives the impression that the old man was somewhat of an uptight bugger, but deep down that self-effacing christian value lies a man in need of a release

Smodden
Originally posted by Naib
interesting to say the least, albeit somewhat less to my liking in all honesty

it gives the impression that the old man was somewhat of an uptight bugger, but deep down that self-effacing christian value lies a man in need of a release
Release?

Naib
Originally posted by Smodden
Release? would you like for me to elaborate or should i trust your imagination to play itself out?

Smodden
no, no...I just don't think a man dedicated to Christian Values needs to be released that's all...

Naib
all men with christian value, and honestly i hate that terminology, are in fact men with repressed sexuality whether they believe it or not

they deny it by basing whatever urges and or thoughts they have by stating that such things are the work of the devil and must resist the temptation to give in as if such a thing were possible

i for one believe it is rather mundane and pointless to do so. go with the urge and feel your true humanity, not laced with moralistic attitudes and biblical teachings

what is the point of it if god gave us free will? so that he can send more than 2/3's of humanity to boiling hell? i think not

Smodden
Not "all men" with Christian values are repressed sexually...They merely respect God and other people.

And Men with Christian Values do not think all sexual desires are the cause of the devil...Tolkien believes it is sinful to act upon those, yes God given desires, BEFORE marrige, but only after marrige, when the two are joined together before the sight of God is it ok to have sex....Get your facts straight Naib.wink

Naib
Originally posted by Smodden
Not "all men" with Christian values are repressed sexually...They merely respect God and other people.

And Men with Christian Values do not think all sexual desires are the cause of the devil...Tolkien believes it is sinful to act upon those, yes God given desires, BEFORE marrige, but only after marrige, when the two are joined together before the sight of God is it ok to have sex....Get your facts straight Naib.wink if you believe that first part of your statement, then that would be irresponsibly naive.

i say ALL men of whatever ideology or lack thereof are sexually repressed by todays society's moral values and dogmas. it's a fact that men think of sex seven times in a day, some even more so. to an act on it is another issue.

and it matters little whether one is married, he will still think of sex whether it be his wife/spouse or some trollop at a pub.

and how do you explain all those who've never heard the word of god? are they then committing a sin? are they damned to the deepest and lowest parts of hell for having sex outside of what's considered "christian" marriage. i should think not. these so called values were brought upon by righteous babbling bible rouser to prevent what truly was THE problem at the time. STD's.

shadowy_blue
Reading the title of this thread, I somehow supposed that this would be all about Tolkien's opinions/intention on sexuality in Middle-earth.

That being said though, Smodden's quote cement that Tolkien was an extreme idealist. It is fair to say that JRRT was discrete about sexual matters, but I would ascribe this not only to his Catholicism, or his being raised in the household of a priest, but also to his Victorian mores, and being a good ole' fashioned guy.

But Victorianism and chivalry aside, JRRT was really aspiring for a pre-Fall model of love. Where sexual relations were good and timeless, and where people are not supposed to be as flawed as you, me and most of the people in recent times.

This brings me to my idea of what Tolkien probably did find morally objectionable, and the spirit that probably lies behind the traditional morals of wedlock: there is no joy or happiness to be had in loveless and mechanical fornication, especially in the form of adultery, which is specifically banned in the Commandments. I presume his objection was that such activity reduces the union to nothing more than the gratification of a bodily impulse, no more redolent of joy or love than the scratching of a troublesome itch.

Son of Boromir
Whoa whoa whoa whoa...whoa...this isnt my batman glass. Oh and wo can read all that

ShaKoon
not me, sorry i am not trying to ruin a thread, K?

ShaKoon
i can't read that all!

belbel300
thats too much to read man, its da summer hols, i'm here to relax!!

Elessea
If you don't want to read a thread...then don't post stupid replies in it please. THAT does ruin a thread to a point. If you don't like it...don't post!

Flying High
i got bored and stopped reading...you guys should know i never read big posts...also a lot of big words stick out tongue

shadowy_blue
Originally posted by Elessea
If you don't want to read a thread...then don't post stupid replies in it please. THAT does ruin a thread to a point. If you don't like it...don't post!
Agreed. Nobody's forcing EVERYONE to read the damn quote. If you don't like how long it is and have nothing relevant to add in the discussion other than to comment how awfully "unreadable" it is, then leave it alone and stop acting as if someone's torturing you or something.

masterkit
really who wants to read all that

Smodden
Apparently not you, so be off with you now...

NunYahBidness
that's some amazing stuff....too bad i ain't good at replying back

ZoSo
Interesting....

Fëanor
so said he vaguely and yet voluminous(?)

The Inkeeper
Tolkien obviously wasnt getting any.




Bitter man....shame.

Fëanor
Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Tolkien obviously wasnt getting any.




Bitter man....shame. laughing

i can't even comment on that one...big grin

Smodden
Originally posted by The Inkeeper
Tolkien obviously wasnt getting any.




Bitter man....shame.

laughing kisses

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