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Think about it logically. Who is gonna be in Heaven? Noone. You and all your friends, and all your favourite musicians, actors, etc... will be in Hell. It's all because of the way 'God' set up his system. It's almost impossible to never sin in your life.
And, if I'm right, then logically, Hell couldn't b that bad. In fact, it should be awsome! I mean, the devil is the opposite o god, right? And he resides over Hell. So why the hell (excuse the pun) should he be told by god what to do with us when we go there??? In fact, he'd probably have an eternal party. The bible is a book written 'by the men of God' right? Whicjh means that they- God'smen, hence, God- are the ones/one who is telling everyone what's going on in hell.
Now, if the Devil's work is sin- the things we're going to hell for... then why would he be so different later? He won't possibly be like 'yo! why did you listen to me? *whip whip*

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Satanist, but I don't follow the same god as anyone (unless there are some other Rastas around...))

Sinning is somthing you can't escape but some sins are worse than others. You'll have to do something really bad to (and a lot of it) go to Hell.

Some actors (like O.J. Simpson might go to Hell but no one knows but the almighty One

There is no difference between heaven and hell, it is you who change. Heaven or hell are not places you go after you are dead (we are reincarnated), they are states of mind and body. There are 8 other worlds.

heaven is heaven, hell is hell

Originally posted by cking
heaven is heaven, hell is hell

Since you have said nothing, you must be agreeing with me.

yes, I am.

Originally posted by ryno14141
Sinning is somthing you can't escape but some sins are worse than others. You'll have to do something really bad to (and a lot of it) go to Hell.

Some actors (like O.J. Simpson might go to Hell but no one knows but the almighty One

That makes no sense. Are you saying that some sins are just there for kicks? Obviously they wouldn't do that. The Bible does say that sinners go to Hell. Not 'if you kill three people you will go to hell, if you sleep with someone's wife other than yours 20 times, you go to hell, if you thikn malicious thoughts 2000 times, you are hell bound.' you commit a sin, you are on your wa to the big H. They wouldn't make some sins worse than others, some just have larger impact.

all sin is death, and the wages of sins are both physical and spiritual.

so... what you're trying to say now is that hell is irrelevent?? Sins are paid for in life?

Maybe hell is heaven and heaven is really hell....though I think you do chose it now....It's not some after place....cause we all go to the same place.

not everyone will go to the same place.

Not sure if I agree... but I'm interested in this idea, debbie. Are you saying that there is no heaven and no hell (I agree with that) and when one dies, he/she goes on to another world to live? I know that's not what you said, but It's basically what I'm getting. Can you try to define this place we go to?

there are both worlds and people choose to go to one of them.

??? So what are the sins???? And if we choose, then why the hell doesn't everyone just go to heaven?? Why is there a concept of heaven versus hell? Doesn't that notion contradict the bible, C??

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Not sure if I agree... but I'm interested in this idea, debbie. Are you saying that there is no heaven and no hell (I agree with that) and when one dies, he/she goes on to another world to live? I know that's not what you said, but It's basically what I'm getting. Can you try to define this place we go to?

I believe that we are all part of the same source...and that source wouldn't throw it's self or parts of it's self into a place of torment...Also, the teaching of Hell as we know it today was borrowed from the Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians...etc...It's a teaching that was instituted in the Christianity through the Roman Catholic Church...They changed many things including which teachings/texts would be included in the cannon of scripture....To control to masses of people and to get their money to build their huge Cathedrals and lavish life styles of the Bishops....

When we leave this life..we do go to another place...It may be some kind of place that may be like another dimension...Of all the near death experiences I've read about...they all have one thing in common...they see what they want to see...Or maybe they're creating it themselves since we are all part of the creative process, being that we are parts of the "I am all there is"...God/Spirit/Entity...whatever you want to call it.

it is really hard to go to heaven, because we aren't sinless, we all are born into sin from our parents, from their parents and it all goes back to adam. some people just don't want to go to heaven so they do what they think is right. if the world would have chosen to go to heaven then they would stop doing the hated things, and so the world would have no violence, but since sin is still here, violence, chaos, crying, pain, and death are still here.

if all men choose to believe then the world would not be as violence as it is, then they would do what is right instead of wrong. since they don't then sin is still lurking and causing pain and death aslong as the sin remains.

Originally posted by cking
if all men choose to believe then the world would not be as violence as it is, then they would do what is right instead of wrong. since they don't then sin is still lurking and causing pain and death aslong as the sin remains.

That's because they're not following what Jesus taught..."The Kingdom of Heaven is with in you"....you chose it....you chose heaven or hell...you chose what you want your world to be like....If everyone chose the less selfish thing....then................

true, people won't believe because they are mad at god and they say they can try and give peace to the world without god, this is what the antichrist leader will do and fail to. people are never satisfied with god, so it goes back to a sinful heart, that wants pleasure for themselves and cruel and unmercy to others.

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Think about it logically. Who is gonna be in Heaven? Noone. You and all your friends, and all your favourite musicians, actors, etc... will be in Hell. It's all because of the way 'God' set up his system. It's almost impossible to never sin in your life.
And, if I'm right, then logically, Hell couldn't b that bad. In fact, it should be awsome! I mean, the devil is the opposite o god, right? And he resides over Hell. So why the hell (excuse the pun) should he be told by god what to do with us when we go there??? In fact, he'd probably have an eternal party. The bible is a book written 'by the men of God' right? Whicjh means that they- God'smen, hence, God- are the ones/one who is telling everyone what's going on in hell.
Now, if the Devil's work is sin- the things we're going to hell for... then why would he be so different later? He won't possibly be like 'yo! why did you listen to me? *whip whip*

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Satanist, but I don't follow the same god as anyone (unless there are some other Rastas around...))
So, are you trolling, or are you just that ignorant of what the Bible says?

Originally posted by FeceMan
So, are you trolling, or are you just that ignorant of what the Bible says?

Gee...give the guy a break....not everyone knows as much as you do.

yep

Originally posted by cking
if all men choose to believe then the world would not be as violence as it is, then they would do what is right instead of wrong. since they don't then sin is still lurking and causing pain and death aslong as the sin remains.

Well, if all men chose to believe any one thing, then the world would be less. violent. I won't start advocating my personal/cultural beliefs about God and religion, but I will say that I think that religion is a tool made to unify all people, even with all the writings in the world, we still wonder such things as who is 'God.' And is there even such an entity? If we all believed in any one thing, right or wrong, we'd be happy.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I don't go by a set religion, I have a mindset and a way of life that I live by and believe in. I don't feel that a god should be necessary, as we have our fellow man to believe in. This is why I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, I go by something like what Debbie is saying, different, but similar.
And I'm wondering, Debbie, are you christian? It seems like it, but that idea you posed doesn't seem to follow God's word...

And Feceman, If you're not gonna try to teach me of God's word- the Bible's teachings, then don't get mad because I don't agree with you. Mabe you could tell me how I'm trolling? (thanks for standing up for me, Debbie, King)

your welcome.

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
This is why I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, I go by something like what Debbie is saying, different, but similar.
And I'm wondering, Debbie, are you christian? It seems like it, but that idea you posed doesn't seem to follow God's word...



I used to be a Christian at one time....But I see God as being bigger than any one religion or belief other wise whats the purpose of creating people?...so they can screw up and be thrown in an imaginary place...BTW...Hell the way it is taught is MANS creation...

so what are you then?

Originally posted by debbiejo
I used to be a Christian at one time....But I see God as being bigger than any one religion or belief other wise whats the purpose of creating people?...so they can screw up and be thrown in an imaginary place...BTW...Hell the way it is taught is MANS creation...
technically it's a German-barbarian creation they used in their religion so if they were right, it's not mans creation

Yea, hell and heaven... heck! even earth are inventions. Which is why we can believe in different things.
And I don't think that we are created. Cuz why would we be? I think... actually, it's long and complicated... if you want to know, ask, but I don't want to waste my time...

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Yea, hell and heaven... heck! even earth are inventions. Which is why we can believe in different things.
And I don't think that we are created. Cuz why would we be? I think... actually, it's long and complicated... if you want to know, ask, but I don't want to waste my time...

I believe it's a combination of both gods initiation including evolution. Both combined to some extent....

What do you think?

Lord-of-Dreams you are the one who is making no sense what religion are you, do you know the Ten commandments?

Originally posted by ryno14141
Lord-of-Dreams you are the one who is making no sense what religion are you, do you know the Ten commandments?


Are you an idiot....what kind of statement is that.

ryno, go read through this thread a few times and try to undrestand my points. I do know the ten commandements.

What two gods, Deb?? And how do they affect us? What ole do they play in Life?

I believe that there's one higher nothing (very big, very complex. you might not understand it, I might explain it a little later, but just try to follow me lol), and this nothing sends itself out into the universe- in two entities: 'mind' and 'body.' Whenever a mind and a body encounter each other, a person is created (born). Death is when the two entities have finished with each other. Problem is, weaker minds-body sets need a cause to depart (die), so they have to wait for something to kill the being. Some of the stronger- usually older- pairs can cause their own departure. Such things as cancer- unexplainable ailments that kill a lot, smoking also- are how they depart. Once the two things separate, they fly around at high speeds till a mind and body clash and merge.
Both entities have a single goal: they want to become perfect. 'Life' is how they learn, and become. The body wants to become perfect- no uge and muscular, but finely tuned, able to sense everything around it, able to know what the weather will be, to feel the tree's and animal's and everything else's feelings. The mind wants to know and understand all. The mind comes into life with the knowledge (improtant knowledge, not just how to play chess or swim lol) it obtained before- but only with the capability to learn it, the info is in it's 'mind (obviously the thinking mind that we have)', but must be... remember, I guess is the best term...
Once the mind and body become perfect, they rejoin the nothing. Every living thing is made up of midn and body.

Any questions?? lol

Oh...I didn't mean two gods....hahaha....I mean the two different views...one that might be considered creation and one that might be considered evolution....to me I think they can both be merged to some extent.....maybe a creation in the evolution process....??..a ball set rolling....

You are suggesting the 8th level of conciseness and the presence of an Entity.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Oh...I didn't mean two gods....hahaha....I mean the two different views...one that might be considered creation and one that might be considered evolution....to me I think they can both be merged to some extent.....maybe a creation in the evolution process....??..a ball set rolling....

What about the idea of not beginning only continual creation.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What about the idea of not beginning only continual creation.

Well that would be mind boggling...I don't know if I can imagine a "No beginning"...but that would take us outside of space and time....going into theory and exploration......sounds like a good trip.....tell me about it.

Maybe like a vibrating continuous ring that always is vibrating in wider and wider dimensions, one inside the other and so on...kinda like breaking off the the initial one, or the one before it...each different and at a different level of evolution and vibration... ever expanding....but what would cause the first vibration to start it all....Like many rings within many rings....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well that would be mind boggling...I don't know if I can imagine a "No beginning"...but that would take us outside of space and time....going into theory and exploration......sounds like a good trip.....tell me about it.

Maybe like a vibrating continuous ring that always is vibrating in wider and wider dimensions, one inside the other and so on...kinda like breaking off the the initial one, or the one before it...each different and at a different level of evolution and vibration... ever expanding....but what would cause the first vibration to start it all....Like many rings within many rings....

It's very hard to imagine, but time is space and space is not limited by the dimension that it occupies, but is limited by other dimensions.

that is true

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Think about it logically. Who is gonna be in Heaven? Noone. You and all your friends, and all your favourite musicians, actors, etc... will be in Hell. It's all because of the way 'God' set up his system. It's almost impossible to never sin in your life.
And, if I'm right, then logically, Hell couldn't b that bad. In fact, it should be awsome! I mean, the devil is the opposite o god, right? And he resides over Hell. So why the hell (excuse the pun) should he be told by god what to do with us when we go there??? In fact, he'd probably have an eternal party. The bible is a book written 'by the men of God' right? Whicjh means that they- God'smen, hence, God- are the ones/one who is telling everyone what's going on in hell.
Now, if the Devil's work is sin- the things we're going to hell for... then why would he be so different later? He won't possibly be like 'yo! why did you listen to me? *whip whip*

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Satanist, but I don't follow the same god as anyone (unless there are some other Rastas around...))

When Jesus died on the cross It gave us a way into heaven. And Hell is Far worse than Heaven. In hell there is "Moaning and Gnashing of teeth" not an eternal party. But Heaven I beleave a land of is endless adventure, not siting in a cloud strumming a harp.

agreed

Originally posted by JLRTENJAC
When Jesus died on the cross It gave us a way into heaven. And Hell is Far worse than Heaven. In hell there is "Moaning and Gnashing of teeth" not an eternal party. But Heaven I beleave a land of is endless adventure, not siting in a cloud strumming a harp.

There is a very good chance that Jesus did not die on the cross. Many people survived crucification.

he died alright, God made sure for punishment of sins. some people did, but he didn't.

Originally posted by JLRTENJAC
When Jesus died on the cross It gave us a way into heaven. And Hell is Far worse than Heaven. In hell there is "Moaning and Gnashing of teeth" not an eternal party. But Heaven I beleave a land of is endless adventure, not siting in a cloud strumming a harp.

Please post your scriptures of hell...

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

Originally posted by JLRTENJAC
When Jesus died on the cross It gave us a way into heaven. And Hell is Far worse than Heaven. In hell there is "Moaning and Gnashing of teeth" not an eternal party. But Heaven I beleave a land of is endless adventure, not siting in a cloud strumming a harp.

You quoted me, but didn't read my post, it seems lol!! Listen, I am using logic, I know that your book says that heaven is better than hell, but I am saying that it is logically not.

propaganda always make a beautiful picture of the ways it is promoting

Originally posted by finti
propaganda always make a beautiful picture of the ways it is promoting
Truth is even better.

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Think about it logically. Who is gonna be in Heaven? Noone. You and all your friends, and all your favourite musicians, actors, etc... will be in Hell. It's all because of the way 'God' set up his system. It's almost impossible to never sin in your life.
And, if I'm right, then logically, Hell couldn't b that bad. In fact, it should be awsome! I mean, the devil is the opposite o god, right? And he resides over Hell. So why the hell (excuse the pun) should he be told by god what to do with us when we go there??? In fact, he'd probably have an eternal party. The bible is a book written 'by the men of God' right? Whicjh means that they- God'smen, hence, God- are the ones/one who is telling everyone what's going on in hell.
Now, if the Devil's work is sin- the things we're going to hell for... then why would he be so different later? He won't possibly be like 'yo! why did you listen to me? *whip whip*

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Satanist, but I don't follow the same god as anyone (unless there are some other Rastas around...))

I see your point yet that is wrong. The thing that makes the devil evil is because he hates everything, life, you, me and tortures people in treacherous ways.

There would be no rules, unless:

1. Don't do nothing or torture

2. Do Nothing or torture

3. Insult the devil or torture

4. Hate others and you might be given a higher rank = more torture

Everything is bad in hell, no choices, if you even move you'd probably get tortured.


I'd be in heaven, i'm a good christian.
In heaven you will be treated nice, you don't need food, there'd be no disease etc.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
I see your point yet that is wrong. The thing that makes the devil evil is because he hates everything, life, you, me and tortures people in treacherous ways.

There would be no rules, unless:

1. Don't do nothing or torture

2. Do Nothing or torture

3. Insult the devil or torture

4. Hate others and you might be given a higher rank = more torture

Everything is bad in hell, no choices, if you even move you'd probably get tortured.


I'd be in heaven, i'm a good christian.
In heaven you will be treated nice, you don't need food, there'd be no disease etc.

But I don't believe in mythological being like satin or devils.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
I see your point yet that is wrong. The thing that makes the devil evil is because he hates everything, life, you, me and tortures people in treacherous ways.

There would be no rules, unless:

1. Don't do nothing or torture

2. Do Nothing or torture

3. Insult the devil or torture

4. Hate others and you might be given a higher rank = more torture

Everything is bad in hell, no choices, if you even move you'd probably get tortured.


I'd be in heaven, i'm a good christian.
In heaven you will be treated nice, you don't need food, there'd be no disease etc.

You're kidding right....say you are....these thing have been proved on previous threads that they are derived from myths....do you need some links?

Yet what would happen to the bad people when they died if hell hadn't existed?

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
Yet what would happen to the bad people when they died if hell hadn't existed?

They keep their karma and are reborn with it, and live with a lower life state.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
Yet what would happen to the bad people when they died if hell hadn't existed?

There is no Hell...http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14706.htm

Please at least read this....

Hell is based on myth and incorporated into the church by mean of control by the Roman Catholic church forever ago.....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They keep their karma and are reborn with it, and live with a lower life state.

Have you forgotten that there is more people on earth today than there was yesterday? That means we don't have any freedom to be who we are, if there was a god he wouldn't be so mean.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
Have you forgotten that there is more people on earth today than there was yesterday? That means we don't have any freedom to be who we are, if there was a god he wouldn't be so mean.

I believe in simultaneous reincarnation, there is no one for one exchange.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There is no Hell...http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14706.htm

Please at least read this....

Hell is based on myth and incorporated into the church by mean of control by the Roman Catholic church forever ago.....

Yes i have read and I see your point.
But just because they have the same name doesn't mean that they are the same place. Hell was probably named after that place.

Oh and this from one of the pages:
"If my daughter is in Hell because she did not get "born again" then I'd rather go to Hell and be with her than to be with your God because there would be more love in Hell than near your vindictive God."
The answer would be that the parent would go to hell because she wanted to, God would have more love than her because her daughter might not want the parent to have the same pain, and the parent going would be breaking the daughters wishes.

Tell me this chibi Boy....how would your life change if you REALLY FOUND OUT that there wasn't a hell?....Be truthful...

i infact would be quite happy, yet also quite confused.

It's ok, i get your point already, so why do i go against the idea? well, it's because it's what i believe, i can't help it.

But everyone has killed an insect or something and the commandment says, 'Thy shall not kill' but it doesn't say what. And is Satan is God's opposite wouldn't that mean he doesn't want you to have joy?

Originally posted by debbiejo
You're kidding right....say you are....these thing have been proved on previous threads that they are derived from myths....do you need some links?

More like you think they have proven. That proof is a load of crap.

OH MY GOSH THERE ARE 6 STRINGS IN A GUITAR AND TWO DRUMSTICKS AND SIX TIMES TWO EQUALS TWELVE AND THERE WERE TWELVE DISCIPLES SO CHRISTIANITY MUST BE BASED ON INSTRUMENTS SO IT HAS TO BE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I gathered from those sites; just some stupid analogies between christianity and pagan religions that has nothing to do with anything.

And also; how would YOUR life change if you found out for sure that there WAS a heaven and hell and we WILL be judged by the almighty God for the sins we commit?

Sorry for the over-use of caps lock and the religious zealot sort of reply

Originally posted by Arbiter
But everyone has killed an insect or something and the commandment says, 'Thy shall not kill' but it doesn't say what. And is Satan is God's opposite wouldn't that mean he doesn't want you to have joy?
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that 'Thou shalt not kill' applies to humans interacting with humans rather than animals. What with the eating hamburgers and whatnot.

Satan does not want you to have joy...
Originally posted by debbiejo
There is no Hell...http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14706.htm

Please at least read this....

Hell is based on myth and incorporated into the church by mean of control by the Roman Catholic church forever ago.....
I have read about the Gehenna thing and found it odd, but I will stand by the whole 'lake of fire' spiel in Revelations.

Originally posted by Echuu
More like you think they have proven. That proof is a load of crap.

OH MY GOSH THERE ARE 6 STRINGS IN A GUITAR AND TWO DRUMSTICKS AND SIX TIMES TWO EQUALS TWELVE AND THERE WERE TWELVE DISCIPLES SO CHRISTIANITY MUST BE BASED ON INSTRUMENTS SO IT HAS TO BE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I gathered from those sites; just some stupid analogies between christianity and pagan religions that has nothing to do with anything.

And also; how would YOUR life change if you found out for sure that there WAS a heaven and hell and we WILL be judged by the almighty God for the sins we commit?

Sorry for the over-use of caps lock and the religious zealot sort of reply

Now that's what I love about Christians. They are so kind and understanding. They never yell at you, or use bad language, and they always turn the other cheek. When I read a post like this one, I want to run out and become a Christean too.

You can always tell if a faith is true, my the actions of the followers.

and if they played a bass guitar??????

then come judgment I would made this god regrett he/she/it even thought of something called judgment day

neither does the biblical god

Maybe. But Hell sucks at marketing.

ever consider that it doesnt need marketing unlike a certain other place.....................and what does that tell you about these places

Originally posted by Echuu
More like you think they have proven. That proof is a load of crap.



You want it to be a load of crap...But this is the reality of it.

Originally posted by Echuu

That's all I gathered from those sites; just some stupid analogies between christianity and pagan religions that has nothing to do with anything.

Originally posted by Echuu

And also; how would YOUR life change if you found out for sure that there WAS a heaven and hell and we WILL be judged by the almighty God for the sins we commit?



No differently...But only trying to save the world so they wouldn't burn forever...passing out pamphlets..annoying everyone to death on how they're wrong and I'm right...Missionary everyone to death...and definitely No fun at parties....etc..

Now what would you do differently if there wasn't such a place?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now that's what I love about Christians. They are so kind and understanding. They never yell at you, or use bad language, and they always turn the other cheek. When I read a post like this one, I want to run out and become a Christean too.

You can always tell if a faith is true, my the actions of the followers.

No actually it's just the kind of person that I am. I over exemplify things to prove a point and will usually let you know afterward. I kinda showed that by saying "sorry for the caps lock and the religious zealot sort of reply."
And how is "crap" bad language?



finti........ the bass has four strings so you divide 4 by the 12 and you get 3....the holy trinity!!!


debbiejo.......... actually in my opinion it is a load of crap. I guess we aren't going to get anywhere with this so we may just have to agreee to disagree.

Originally posted by Echuu
No actually it's just the kind of person that I am. I over exemplify things to prove a point and will usually let you know afterward. I kinda showed that by saying "sorry for the caps lock and the religious zealot sort of reply."
And how is "crap" bad language?



finti........ the bass has four strings so you divide 4 by the 12 and you get 3....the holy trinity!!!


debbiejo.......... actually in my opinion it is a load of crap. I guess we aren't going to get anywhere with this so we may just have to agreee to disagree.

Fact, you can be who you want to be, but other people watch you and make judgments on what you do. What people hear first matters the most. May I make a suggestion? Apologize for your behavior first.

BTW you must be a musician, so am I.

Originally posted by Echuu
More like you think they have proven. That proof is a load of crap.

OH MY GOSH THERE ARE 6 STRINGS IN A GUITAR AND TWO DRUMSTICKS AND SIX TIMES TWO EQUALS TWELVE AND THERE WERE TWELVE DISCIPLES SO CHRISTIANITY MUST BE BASED ON INSTRUMENTS SO IT HAS TO BE FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I gathered from those sites; just some stupid analogies between christianity and pagan religions that has nothing to do with anything.

And also; how would YOUR life change if you found out for sure that there WAS a heaven and hell and we WILL be judged by the almighty God for the sins we commit?

Sorry for the over-use of caps lock and the religious zealot sort of reply

I salute you, as this is a wise saying.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Fact, you can be who you want to be, but other people watch you and make judgments on what you do. What people hear first matters the most. May I make a suggestion? Apologize for your behavior first.

BTW you must be a musician, so am I.

I realize. but...
I really don't think I have to apologize for anything. I made my point quite easy to understand if someone reads the entire post. I guess it may just be easier for me to accomplish points of that nature in person rather than on an internet forum.

BTW---yup; been drumming for three years and I am learning guitar.




Thanks ChibiBoy

Originally posted by Echuu
I realize. but...
I really don't think I have to apologize for anything. I made my point quite easy to understand if someone reads the entire post. I guess it may just be easier for me to accomplish points of that nature in person rather than on an internet forum.

BTW---yup; been drumming for three years and I am learning guitar.




Thanks ChibiBoy

Your point was fine. I only had a problem with the way you presented it. I thought I would give you some help with how you present yourself. If you have a point, then persuade someone, don't ram it down their throat.

BTW go to my profile, there is my website. I've been playing for 26 years, Be happy...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your point was fine. I only had a problem with the way you presented it. I thought I would give you some help with how you present yourself. If you have a point, then persuade someone, don't ram it down their throat.

BTW go to my profile, there is my website. I've been playing for 26 years, Be happy...

True. I kinda went on the rant because debbiejo is putting this "christianity is based on paganism" out as a fact. Regardless, no excuse for me ranting.


BTW thats awesome

Originally posted by Echuu
True. I kinda went on the rant because debbiejo is putting this "christianity is based on paganism" out as a fact. Regardless, no excuse for me ranting.


BTW thats awesome

Don't get bent about what other people say. That's easier said than done, I know, even I've fallen into that trap before. And debbiejo is really a cool person, but she's on a role and she will run you over. Just let her go.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't get bent about what other people say. That's easier said than done, I know, even I've fallen into that trap before. And debbiejo is really a cool person, but she's on a role and she will run you over. Just let her go.

Once again...true.

Now I'm going to PM you about your website as to keep things on topic

Originally posted by finti
neither does the biblical god
I'm not even going to address the ignorance of this statement.

Originally posted by finti
ever consider that it doesnt need marketing unlike a certain other place.....................and what does that tell you about these places
When everyone starts off on the road to Walmart (err, I mean, hell), one does not need to advertise it. Especially since traveling that wide, easy path seems better than the straight and craggy path to Meijers (err...).

debbiejoe, here's some food for thought:

What if the miracles in the Bible, instead of being myth based off of other myths, actually resembled the gods' alleged powers on purpose? So that people would see Jesus perform the miracles their gods were said to have done and realize that he was the real deal instead of Dionysus and Co.?

Originally posted by FeceMan

debbiejoe, here's some food for thought:

What if the miracles in the Bible, instead of being myth based off of other myths, actually resembled the gods' alleged powers on purpose? So that people would see Jesus perform the miracles their gods were said to have done and realize that he was the real deal instead of Dionysus and Co.?

That's interesting enough, I'll chew on that....But I don't know.....And by the way, I do believe in Miracles....I have no doubt that they happen, even Jesus could of done them...It's just ironic that they were the same exact ones done hundreds of years earlier, by multiple gods depending on your geographical locations and what you called your god by....

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's interesting enough, I'll chew on that....But I don't know.....And by the way, I do believe in Miracles....I have no doubt that they happen, even Jesus could of done them...It's just ironic that they were the same exact ones done hundreds of years earlier, by multiple gods depending on your geographical locations and what you called your god by....
The way I see it is this: everyone in the day and age of Jesus would have heard of the miracles of their gods. When Jesus performed the exact same miracles, they would have immediately seen the parallels between them and would have thought, "Snap! Who is this guy?!"

Over whom was Jesus showing dominion when he calmed the sea and the storm? Over whom was Jesus showing dominion when he rose from the grave? Over whom was he showing dominion when he healed the sick and brought the dead to life?

Poseidon. Hades. Asclepius. And Satan.

Still chewing on it......eat

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's interesting enough, I'll chew on that....But I don't know.....And by the way, I do believe in Miracles....I have no doubt that they happen, even Jesus could of done them...It's just ironic that they were the same exact ones done hundreds of years earlier, by multiple gods depending on your geographical locations and what you called your god by....

You believe in miracles? Look at me, I was born 20 minutes apart from my cousin on the same day, the same weight and a birth mark in the same place.

But back to the point...

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
You believe in miracles? Look at me, I was born 20 minutes apart from my cousin on the same day, the same weight and a birth mark in the same place.

But back to the point...

Yes, I believe in miracles....I was told by a voice not to go to a friends house when a plane was going to crash at the Detroit airport...I argued with this voice...because she/my friend Barbie lived right at the point where the plane started to break apart...I would of been on 3 of the roads that lead to her house.... and at that same time period...And that's where the plane was was scattering....so I went home only to find out that a jet crashed at that metro airport with only 1 survivor...a baby girl....How surprised I was when I got home and realized what had happened....

that stupid voice wouldn't leave me alone...it kept telling me to "Just go home"....."Go home"...."No, go home"....go home go home go home...

Originally posted by FeceMan
The way I see it is this: everyone in the day and age of Jesus would have heard of the miracles of their gods. When Jesus performed the exact same miracles, they would have immediately seen the parallels between them and would have thought, "Snap! Who is this guy?!"

Over whom was Jesus showing dominion when he calmed the sea and the storm? Over whom was Jesus showing dominion when he rose from the grave? Over whom was he showing dominion when he healed the sick and brought the dead to life?

Poseidon. Hades. Asclepius. And Satan.

OK....I'm done chewing on it......Sorry feceman... ...It just doesn't taste right to me....We'll just have to agree to disagree....There is just too much evidence in the conclusions I've come to.

Originally posted by FeceMan

I have read about the Gehenna thing and found it odd, but I will stand by the whole 'lake of fire' spiel in Revelations.

The one thing about Revelations....is that it's all symbolic.

John might of also been on something when he wrote that book..

http://skeptically.org/bible/id9.html

THe devil wont reign over hell. He will be amongst the others who rejected Jesus who will suffer great horrors.

God isnt out to boss others around. Sides even if He was, He has the right simply cause He is God.

However, He gave us His rules for our safety and benefit.

Lets take the sin of sex before marriage. Some might think God is a real prick that people have to wait to have sex until after they are married and only have it with their husband or wife. What a jerk! right?

No, His commandments our for our benefit and safety and protection.

We are not to have sex before marriage cause it is a proven fact that people who have sex with multiple partners (or even one partner not tested) are at greater risks of developing STDs and getting pregnant while too young (for girls) and even getting AIDS.

STDs can cause great pain and even infertility and even death.

AIDS is an STD that ultimately leads to death.

Those who wait have a much lesser risk of getting STDs and early pregnancies.

So it is for our protection that God gave us rules.

Take lying for instance. We are told not to lie. That is for protection too. Cause if a person lies just once or even keeps lying, then chances of gaining trust back again gets harder each time the person lies.

Also adultery that is for protection too. From shame, guilt, STDs like AIDS, break ups, heartbreaks, pain, fear, confusion, tears, sorrow, etc.

Like above to make it clearer cause i ran out of room.

God tells us not to commit adultery to spare us from the shame and pain it will cause. Not cause He wants to be mean, but because He wants to protect us.

So His rules are to protect us and also were given to show us we are sinnesr and that there no way we can be good enough to save ourselves.

Only through Jesus and repentance turning from sin are we saved by calling on Jesus Name with all our hearts.

Originally posted by HairyPooper
THe devil wont reign over hell. He will be amongst the others who rejected Jesus who will suffer great horrors.

God isnt out to boss others around. Sides even if He was, He has the right simply cause He is God.

However, He gave us His rules for our safety and benefit.

Lets take the sin of sex before marriage. Some might think God is a real prick that people have to wait to have sex until after they are married and only have it with their husband or wife. What a jerk! right?

No, His commandments our for our benefit and safety and protection.

We are not to have sex before marriage cause it is a proven fact that people who have sex with multiple partners (or even one partner not tested) are at greater risks of developing STDs and getting pregnant while too young (for girls) and even getting AIDS.

STDs can cause great pain and even infertility and even death.

AIDS is an STD that ultimately leads to death.

Those who wait have a much lesser risk of getting STDs and early pregnancies.

So it is for our protection that God gave us rules.

Take lying for instance. We are told not to lie. That is for protection too. Cause if a person lies just once or even keeps lying, then chances of gaining trust back again gets harder each time the person lies.

Also adultery that is for protection too. From shame, guilt, STDs like AIDS, break ups, heartbreaks, pain, fear, confusion, tears, sorrow, etc. So people who love each other who are ready to face everything should go to hell? So people with STDs should go to hell? These rules aren't right. If all these things are true, we are all sinners. Every last one of us. Everyone lies. Everyone has sex. Everyone does those things. There isn't a human alive who hasn't done one of those things. If there is a God he shouldn't punish us for being human, and allowing us to do this stuff period!

This is hell or heaven, you make the choice.

Originally posted by ryno14141
Sinning is somthing you can't escape but some sins are worse than others. You'll have to do something really bad to (and a lot of it) go to Hell.

Some actors (like O.J. Simpson might go to Hell but no one knows but the almighty One


God hates sin. It is totally against His character, His Holiness and His Justice. Sin makes Him sick.

Even one sin is enough to keep anyone out of Heaven. It doesn't matter if it is just wittle white wie.

But God being so awesome in His mercy and grace and so abundant in eternal love sent Jesus who willing suffered, shed all His blood, and died on the cross of tortures for our sins and who rose again from the dead for our justification (that is being made right with God as though we never sinned).

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance see II Peter 3:9.

God hates sin, but in His awesome mercy and perfect Love Jesus died in our place for our sins so we could be saved if we just turn from our sins and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all our hearts.

Originally posted by The Phantom
So people who love each other who are ready to face everything should go to hell? So people with STDs should go to hell? These rules aren't right. If all these things are true, we are all sinners. Every last one of us. Everyone lies. Everyone has sex. Everyone does those things. There isn't a human alive who hasn't done one of those things. If there is a God he shouldn't punish us for being human, and allowing us to do this stuff period!


God doesnt want anyone to go to Hell. It is not His heart nor His will. If it was, He would have never sent Jesus to die our sins and rise again in the first place.

Now far as STDS, for that matter sex before marriage. It is a sin, those who do such are going against God's commands which are given for our protection (against STDs and against unwanted pregnancy which can result in abortion, etc.)

Does that mean that if someone has or does have sex outside of marriage that there is no hope for that person? That that person is due for Hell no matter what?

No, of course not. There is forgiveness with God for anyone who acknowledges he or she has sinned.

It is best to never ever sin, but since we are all human and none of us is perfect, we will mess up. We will sin.

Yet with God there is abundant mercy and forgiveness.

So if someone hasn't done a sin, it is best not to do it. Yet if that person does, then there is forgiveness from God to the broken and contrite repentant heart.

To continue in response to your reply...God created us as sexual beings. He is the one who designed orgasms to happen. He created male's penises to erect and become hard so they could fit better into the vagina versus being woppy and not fitting right. He created the female vagina to moisten for a more easy injection of the male penis. God created the male with the ability to ejaculate so that a new baby could be formed. God created sex not only to populate the earth but also for our pleasure and enjoyment. Sex before marriage is not enjoyable in the long run. Oh sure, in the short run the bed is hoppin and the lovers are boppin. However, with the great risk of STDs such as AIDS, unwanted pregnancies that so often lead to abortion and depression, and if that person ever gets married the shame and guilt of having a partner or multiple partners before can be overwhelming. But again there is forgiveness in God through Jesus Christ.Truly all of us has sinned and lied. Now not all of us has had sex, but still many have.
But God doesn't punish us for being human, for being sexual creatures.
Instead for disobeying Him. Let me put it another way. Let's say a parent told their child not to touch a stove. That child thinks he can touch it just cause he was created to touch and explore, so he thereby has the right to touch this hot stove. His parent warns him that it is ok to explore, but certain things cannot be touched like hot stoves. The child ignores him and touches it thus getting burned.
There is nothing wrong with sex. Sex in and of itself (like touching and exploring for a child) is not a sin. It is when it is used outside the safe bonds of marriage that it becomes dangerous and deadly.

God isn't out there to destroy us humans in the Lake of Fire. That isn't His will. He wants us all to be saved. The only way is through Jesus, calling on His Name and turning from sin and receiving Him into our lives and believing on Jesus with all our hearts confessing Him as Lord.

Where did I learn all that sex stuff?

Believe it nor not, from a Christian Bible College.

Originally posted by HairyPooper
God hates sin. It is totally against His character, His Holiness and His Justice. Sin makes Him sick.

Even one sin is enough to keep anyone out of Heaven. It doesn't matter if it is just wittle white wie.

But God being so awesome in His mercy and grace and so abundant in eternal love sent Jesus who willing suffered, shed all His blood, and died on the cross of tortures for our sins and who rose again from the dead for our justification (that is being made right with God as though we never sinned).

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance see II Peter 3:9.

God hates sin, but in His awesome mercy and perfect Love Jesus died in our place for our sins so we could be saved if we just turn from our sins and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all our hearts.



You sure speak for God a lot.

You can not understand God. You are not the judge over God, and the bible is just a book.

Man I can't take pooper.......I gotta go lay down.....

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Think about it logically. Who is gonna be in Heaven? Noone. You and all your friends, and all your favourite musicians, actors, etc... will be in Hell. It's all because of the way 'God' set up his system. It's almost impossible to never sin in your life.
And, if I'm right, then logically, Hell couldn't b that bad. In fact, it should be awsome! I mean, the devil is the opposite o god, right? And he resides over Hell. So why the hell (excuse the pun) should he be told by god what to do with us when we go there??? In fact, he'd probably have an eternal party. The bible is a book written 'by the men of God' right? Whicjh means that they- God'smen, hence, God- are the ones/one who is telling everyone what's going on in hell.
Now, if the Devil's work is sin- the things we're going to hell for... then why would he be so different later? He won't possibly be like 'yo! why did you listen to me? *whip whip*

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Satanist, but I don't follow the same god as anyone (unless there are some other Rastas around...))
Nothing against your beliefs or anything but it seems to me you take Hell very lightly. I believe Hell is nothing but pure torture and deceit. It may be different for you but those are my beliefs. I just think that having such poor attitude toward whether you get into heaven or not isnt right.