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IMO, no, we've done nothing to negatively or postively dictate the outcome of the end of the universe. our absence would just mean less flags on the moon.

our absence would be the end of the universe.

The end of the universe for us, there are thousands of galaxies in the universe, some must have some form of life that's changing the universe daily, their absence would perhaps be the end of the universe. Universe universe universe.

Everything we even think effects the whole of what the universe becomes....Thoughts are not empty, they are filled with the same energy of sub atomic particles and are alive always effecting the outcome here on earth and universally....Negative thought equals negative physical reality...

everything changes the universe. even if it is the smallest change imaginable, you end up with something new and different. but if you mean will the end of humanity impact the universe exponentially, no. humanity is just another speck of dust in the universe. just a speck of dust with a large ego. and in the long run, who cares what the universe does when youre gone? the only universe that should matter to you is your own private universe, and yes, when you are gone that one will end. that is all that is important. take pride in knowing that an entire universe is all for you and no one else can change that.

What makes us so Goddamn important?

Being a part of the universe makes us as important as we are. Which is not very, but our absence would affect the universe, because we wouldn't be there anymore. Just the change of not being there itself is an effect, although a fairly mild one.

Originally posted by JediMusician
Being a part of the universe makes us as important as we are. Which is not very, but our absence would affect the universe, because we wouldn't be there anymore. Just the change of not being there itself is an effect, although a fairly mild one.

I would have to agree 100%, however, it would be devastating to me.

Please don't be devastated! I would not want to accept the responsibility! lol

silly question.

because if we weren't here then we wouldn't know if it would affect the universe.

Maybe affect it on a futuristic scale...who knows what we could accomplish..someday.

Of course, there would be no more humans in it.

Originally posted by cking
our absence would be the end of the universe.
End of the universe SpellJammer's ass, it would be the best thing to ever happen to mother Earth. Animals would be able to frolic freely in the many lush forests, the cycles of weather would run thier natural corse, and the energies that dwell would be at thier peeks of peformance.

SpellJammer believes truly that humans were the most dispicable thing to ever be created. They're like locusts, devouring and corrupting everything they touch. Only spreading doom and mayhem wherever they breed. The only way this "human nature" can be avoided is if they learn to fight it and listen to the inner voice of God. Animals don't need to listen to God because they don't have the mental capacity to manifest thier "human nature". But we do, so we HAVE to listen to God if we have any hope of survival for the BETTER..

The Alantians did it.
The Mayans did it.
The Aztecs did it.
The Aincent Egyptions did it.

And it wasn't just bad weather that did these guys in, alot of the most genious of spiritual Indians were destroyed by people who didn't listen to the voice of God. Or as SpellJammer likes to refer to them, "the white devil".

The Universe is Human.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
End of the universe SpellJammer's ass, it would be the best thing to ever happen to mother Earth. Animals would be able to frolic freely in the many lush forests, the cycles of weather would run thier natural corse, and the energies that dwell would be at thier peeks of peformance.

SpellJammer believes truly that humans were the most dispicable thing to ever be created. They're like locusts, devouring and corrupting everything they touch. Only spreading doom and mayhem wherever they breed. The only way this "human nature" can be avoided is if they learn to fight it and listen to the inner voice of God. Animals don't need to listen to God because they don't have the mental capacity to manifest thier "human nature". But we do, so we HAVE to listen to God if we have any hope of survival for the BETTER..

The Alantians did it.
The Mayans did it.
The Aztecs did it.
The Aincent Egyptions did it.

And it wasn't just bad weather that did these guys in, alot of the most genious of spiritual Indians were destroyed by people who didn't listen to the voice of God. Or as SpellJammer likes to refer to them, "the white devil". Atlantians?

Yeah, you know the ones not from Atlanta Georgia....

Would the absence of earth and humans change the universe? we wouldnt be here to know now would we?

Exactly. It's all about knowledge - awareness is the great creator.

Maybe we would be something else.....

Sounds kinda empty though....I'm depressed just thinking about it now.

We wouldn't the first failure race. Aztecs believe many races fell before us.

The Giants.
The Lizardfolk.
The Hobbits. (Wait, that was scientists..)

The point is, it's a very risky endevure having a species that can hear but reject The Voice of God..

I think it could affect the universe, its like in chaos theory, even a stupidly small change in the current state of the universe will lead to a totally different future.

If you choose two graphics which are time dependent, and which resembles very much each other, one being analogous to the universe with humans, and the other with the universe without humans, when you see the graphics at very distant moments in the future they will not be so resembling any more, but completely different.

I feel that we are important, and that if life existed out there atall it would have visited us ages ago and we would have been taken over ages ago, we would be the slaves. But that hasn't happened so i feel we are important to the universe and special.

I seriously doubt it

biblical point of view...yes

scientific point of view...no

Originally posted by leftyard
biblical point of view...yes

scientific point of view...no

Butit could be a significant change in the scientific point of view... remember chaos theory, or see my last post.

Our presence has an insignificant effect on the overall course and "outcome" of the rest of the universe. Ah, but there's the "miracle". So small and inconsequential are we and yet when you're laying on a blanket on a hillside, your arm around your girl, both of you staring up at the magnificent display of stars, planets and an occasional meteor streaking accross the black velvet backdrop of a moonless night - how amazing that, in spite of our relative smallness, we are nevertheless able to comprehend so much of it all! When you consider the scale of creation it is truly astounding. Moreover, that we have, side-by-side with our power to reason and measure and understand, such a capacity to socialize and love and care and share - it is even more incredible. Imo that makes our species quite special and of the kind that is liable to steadily advance and finally get to that point where our influence may shine outwards, like ripples in a pond - and truly make a positive difference for other civilizations on other undiscovered worlds. Then we will in fact "make a difference". Then we would be missed and grieved for should our planet befall a major disaster. Then, we would all be proud to say that we're from the beautiful blue and white planet known as Earth, third in the system of Sol, located in the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy, sister to Andromeda and the second largest galaxy in the cluster know as the Local Group in the Virgo Supercluster.

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/2962/earth23hv.jpg

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/4363/andromedagendlersmm17az.jpg
There are hundreds of billions of stars in one galaxy, all orbiting around its center. There are over 30 galaxies in our Local Group of galaxies. The Local Group is locate at the edge of the Virgo Supercluster, which is a collection of about 100 other groups or smaller clusters of galaxies like our own. This is still a tiny aspect of the universe at large when you consider one estimate for the total number of galaxies as 500 billion! If humans were the only intelligent life form in all this, wouldn't it be such an incredible waste of space? Whats the chance? Lol. Yeah, I know. So... you just gotta know that there are so many alien life forms out there that are just as intelligent as us! I wonder where we stand. How advanced are we compared to the universal average?

Note: The word "universe" is derived from the Latin root "unus" (one) and "vertere" (turning).

Wrt the meaning and purpose of life and reality as a whole - there is a sort of universal "blind spot" that gives it all away, so to speak.

Metaphor: Just as you cannot see behind your head, or grab the back of one hand with that same hand, so to, there will always be a part of the Universe that remains a dark mystery to the other part thats doing the "looking".

In this sense, to the extent that "we" are the universe "looking" or studying itself, you could say that the universe MUST expand in order to escape the telescopes through which we, who are it, are trying to capture it, which is us!

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9277/hudfhistory029xh.jpg


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1633/200407mfulljpg22kg.th.jpg

Our absence would be the end of our universe. There would, however, be a meaningless 0.00000000000000000000000000000001 difference if we never existed.

So it's a paradox...

no, u 2 r a pair a assholes actually.

The universe has karma, and we are a small part of that karma. If the Earth was gone, the karma of the universe would change in a small way.

what an common ahole u r. but it is tru that if u, "shaky", and ur cocksuck bud "mailedbypostman" were to expire, hopefully by a new form of aids that kills in hours, then the karmatic effect would be to improve the atmosphere in this website at least.

Such behavior and attitude are NOT welcome in this forum John. Take 3 days off from this forums.

Of course it would change the universe....we wouldn't be there anymore......and do we really know what is our place in the universe, if it goes well we might be important to the history of the Universe, I mean probably not, but I don't think one can make an absolute sure statement aboot that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Of course it would change the universe....we wouldn't be there anymore......and do we really know what is our place in the universe, if it goes well we might be important to the history of the Universe, I mean probably not, but I don't think one can make an absolute sure statement aboot that.

After all, what would the Vorgons do without us?

Well... we cannot know. It is a metaphysical question like "Does God exist ?" for example. We cannot answer that in a scientific way just have our own opinions about that based on our own culture, and belief.

Originally posted by jOHN_Anderton
what an common ahole u r. but it is tru that if u, "shaky", and ur cocksuck bud "mailedbypostman" were to expire, hopefully by a new form of aids that kills in hours, then the karmatic effect would be to improve the atmosphere in this website at least.

Que tu hablas? Expire? Todavia no, pero le gusta los chicas...

Le gusta los chicas???..Ha ha...Mui?...LOL..., hasta la vista to John....Mui Mal...Es uno mal mal mal..chico...

This is not a valid question, as we cannot answer it while we are still here, and when we are not here anymore, the universe will answer the question for us, but we won't be here to hear it...

And maybe if we cannot answer that question independently of us... it could mean that the universe depend on us in someway.

To say that something exist we must be able to observe it in someway, right ? This universe that we speak about consists of all our observations, and sensations from it. If we were not here this same universe of observations, and sensations would not exist, so it will change a lot since it will not exist anymore. If you are thinking about a universe which is not this universe of observations, and sensations, then you are thinking about a metaphysical concept(like God), and maybe this metaphysical universe could not change with our absence, but a universe like this is not real in my opinion.

To contemplate ideas about the ultimate, absolute, essence of the universe, God, nature, etc., is senseless, fruitless and bad for one's mental as well as physical health, as it creates confusion, frustration, intellectual conflicts, and ultimately, no real answers. We must simply accept the fact that we, as mere human beings, being very small parts of the whole of the universe, cannot know the essence of the truth of existence.
However, we must accept the fact that some things are hidden from our knowledge and then strive to be in synchronisation with the vibration and rhythm of this mystic law of the universe. One can only make peace with the great unknown of the universe if one accepts the mystery of the Universe's essence like a flower of which the seed producing mechanism is hidden and broken when probed.

Originally posted by Wonderer
To contemplate ideas about the ultimate, absolute, essence of the universe, God, nature, etc., is senseless, fruitless and bad for one's mental as well as physical health, as it creates confusion, frustration, intellectual conflicts, and ultimately, no real answers.

Thats true... I used to think about unanswerable questions a lot, and experimented physical unhealthiness for sometime, like epilepsy for example... psychological stress can cause it, its not just a physical problem. When I learned to control myself psychologically, it simply vanished.

That's why I am a Buddhist now.

Originally posted by Wonderer
That's why I am a Buddhist now.

I agree, I used to suffer over things I didn't need to, but didn't know that I didn't need to suffer. "Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy" If we suffer over what we are meant to enjoy, we just miss out.

Hate to be stating the obvious but the answer's in the question. The universe would be different if Earth and humans didn't exist because... there wouldn't be Earth or humans in the universe and that would be a difference. Maybe it's an insignificant difference, but it's a difference.

Originally posted by Zarathustra
Hate to be stating the obvious but the answer's in the question. The universe would be different if Earth and humans didn't exist because... there wouldn't be Earth or humans in the universe and that would be a difference. Maybe it's an insignificant difference, but it's a difference.

Ya, you are right.

No, I don't think we can talk about the ABSENCE of ourselves and the Earth, while we are PRESENT- it doesn't make sense.

I agree... and maybe that means that this universe depend on us in someway.

I believe every things is connected and there are many dimensional levels that we cannot see or sense, so even if we are not in this present form...there is still a functioning universe....

Without us, there would be changes we couldn't imagine. We wouldn't know what these changes would be, so it would be all but impossible to talk about a world without us when we exist, like Atlantis.
Wonderer, I contemplate. The way you descirbe it, that is thinking. Contemplating, for me at least, is thinking slowly and quietly, preferably on some spare time. I don't epect to reach answers quickly at all, indeed, the answer that I might get isn't very scientific, in fact. After contemplating while on long car rides and whatever activity in which waiting is involved, I believe that this person can achieve his or her own understanding of the universe.

Contemplating and thinking...still, its a fruitless means to kill time.

Why do you suppose that the universe would be different without human beings? The absence of something does not necessarily make it different in any way other than just an absence.

That's it! If there were no humans in the universe, then time would not exist!

For humans....yes.

No, not for humans, because in the event of the absence of humans, there is no 'for humans'. Time is in the mind.

For humans... ....on this vibrational level of consciousness...what about the other levels and dimensions...

We cannot speak of other dimensions, since we do not experience them.

Originally posted by Wonderer
We cannot speak of other dimensions, since we do not experience them.

Though there are some that do experience it...yes....

But if we are only talking about humans only..then it would affect only time and the universe for humans..

Originally posted by Spelljammer
End of the universe SpellJammer's ass, it would be the best thing to ever happen to mother Earth. Animals would be able to frolic freely in the many lush forests, the cycles of weather would run thier natural corse, and the energies that dwell would be at thier peeks of peformance.

SpellJammer believes truly that humans were the most dispicable thing to ever be created. They're like locusts, devouring and corrupting everything they touch. Only spreading doom and mayhem wherever they breed. The only way this "human nature" can be avoided is if they learn to fight it and listen to the inner voice of God. Animals don't need to listen to God because they don't have the mental capacity to manifest thier "human nature". But we do, so we HAVE to listen to God if we have any hope of survival for the BETTER..

The Alantians did it.
The Mayans did it.
The Aztecs did it.
The Aincent Egyptions did it.

And it wasn't just bad weather that did these guys in, alot of the most genious of spiritual Indians were destroyed by people who didn't listen to the voice of God. Or as SpellJammer likes to refer to them, "the white devil".
if your right you have proven it wold change the universe. if humanity never existed that wold be a change just in its self. not to mention whut wold evolve in our absence. but whut if it did end the univerce? then it wold prove the importance of humans to the perseved universe but seeing as we are here it dose not mater now. dose it?

Hmmm. If we were to go by post-modern theories, something only exists when it is observable by something sentient - now assuming we are the only life in the universe, if we weren't here to see the universe it might as well not exist...

Still I think it's a load of cobblers, humans trying to make themselves feel important. We orbit a sun that is average, one of a hundred million or more. There lots of planets. If earth wasn't here the universe would go on spinning and expanding or contracting. It doesn't care about us, and there's not the slightest way we influence it. It doesn't exist because of us, we exist because of it.

Yeah, it the ol look away, and everything is wave forms thingie....I've read that too..

i wonder this myself sometimes. if we are the only life in the universe, what is the point of the universe. if life is a random fluke that has appeared on earth and nowhere else in existence, then why is the universe there. i understand how suns are made and planets are formed, but has everything always been just barron rock, ice and burning hydrogen then earth doesnt have any great importance at all and our absence would only mean the universe is lifeless again, how it always was.

if there is other life then we could be of great importance at some point to the galactic community, or even universal. it sounds very sci fi and stuff but we could have a large effect on other life. if in thousands of years we discover a planet with intelligent life below our level of technology we could help them. we could colonise alot of other planets and spread life out and come in contact to numerous other intelligent beings. we could end up being the aliens that arrive in ships on some backwards planet thats barely developed the technology to reach their moon.

im speaking in terms of how we could effect the material non spiritual universe, not religious or supernatural terms. its interesting to think of the universe as a large lifeless void with the occasional gas and solid matter and earth as a strange abboration. from our point of view and a scientific standing life might be the most unique thing that has ever existed. but at the same time its absence would mean as little as its existance. even if it colonised every planet in the universe it would only matter to itself and have little effect on anything apart from the fact that it moved gasses and material around to suit its own needs. the importance of the material being moved would be nothing so it would be just another change in the constantly changing universe. pointless, meaningless and unknown to everything but itself. i am religious though so i think we are of importance, but i like thinking about this sometimes.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Everything we even think effects the whole of what the universe becomes....Thoughts are not empty, they are filled with the same energy of sub atomic particles and are alive always effecting the outcome here on earth and universally....Negative thought equals negative physical reality...

Well said.

I believe we influence universe, because we are part of it. We are not center of it, thus we don't rule and shape it, but we deffinitivly influence it.

What do you mean by saying that we explicitly influence the universe?

-AC

Hardly.