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Anyone got any ideas?

No one?

I think this is a good fight, because they are both similar characters, focusing on combat.

Off hand, I dont really know. Im assuming we are talking about Azreal as Azreal, with the sword and what not, system fully activated. Yet Cap is a tenacious close combat fighter, and while I think based on raw skill alone, azreal would win, I think Cap's experience, equipment, make up for that. Also, Cap seems to be able to find a way to win, he wont give up.

Right now, Im gonna call it narrowly narrowly in Caps favor. I mean the most narrow of narrows. Maybe after I hear what people have to say I might switch over to one side or the other.

I have to think, Nataku. Damn.

need more info on azrael

i read about him in knightfall, seems like a pretty tough dude but cap seems to be able to take him

Originally posted by masterbruce
need more info on azrael

i read about him in knightfall, seems like a pretty tough dude but cap seems to be able to take him

He's got his 100 issue series that occured after knightfall, in which he does a multitude of feats. I'll post them when i get home later.

No one wants to argue? C'mon, I'm itchin' to bust out my bag of Azrael feats.

I'll take the bait. I'll say Cap right now.

What is your basis?

Strength?
Azrael is bio-engineered to be stronger than a human being.

Speed?
Same as above.

Skill?
The system allows him access to an entire lineage of assassins, as shown against Batman, mastering all the martials arts in the world isn't that effective when your opponent can move faster, hit harder, take more, and is a master of their own unique fighting style.

Equipment?
Azrael's armor is insulated, bullet proof, heavily padded, does little to restrict movement, fire proof, has two flaming wristblades that he can shoot at an enemy.

Stamina?
Azrael got his ass beat by a venom pumped thug, then bane, then a shipwreck, then went two days without food, fought the addiction of a more powerful venom than the one that took Batman three bed-ridden days of Alfred intensive care to overcome, and then proceeded to fight, and beat, Bane.

K?

K. I just wanted to let you pull out your bag o azrael. He's pretty good, and I can see him taking it. Too bad he died.

I'm gonna say Cap by a small margin. And yes, I did read your post listing his attributes. Except for the Bane thing, nothing that impresses me when compared to Cap.

Cap alway gets a win

or was it batman?

Originally posted by kgkg
Cap alway gets a win

or was it batman?
Its Batman.

Originally posted by Khellendros
I'm gonna say Cap by a small margin. And yes, I did read your post listing his attributes. Except for the Bane thing, nothing that impresses me when compared to Cap.

Please, why so?

Batman stated that Cap would barely beat him in MvD, and seeing as how Azrael has shown to be just a notch above Bats, it would plausibly make him Cap's equal or superior.

Captain America is also bio engineered with the Super Serum formula.

Batman stating that Cap America would beat him doesnt really factor in as a guage of power, since I could say Lance Armstrong would just barely beat me in a bike race, yet we wont know until it happens.

The problem with Batman is that while he suppose to know alot of martial arts, he cannot fight to his own potential. Hes only human. He isnt god of close combat, as been shown before.

Azreal I beleive would be on par strength and speed wise with Captain America. His shield cancels out the offenseive edge that Azreals weapons give him. And I think using the shield Cap can hurt Az through his armor. So they are on equal footing as far as equipment goes, although Azreal does pretty pimping in his armor. I still think while Az has the raw talent over Cap, Cap can use his brains to even the playing field and get a win.

I'd just like to point out that there is no way Batman could be a 'master of all martial arts'. There are too many, especially when you consider all the other things he would have had to learn in addition to combat ability. I don't care how disciplined or determined he is, you'd have to be inhuman to master every martial art in the world. Besides, how could he possibly keep up his practise of all of them?

Back on-topic, it would be a very tough fight, but I'll say Cap. He is also bio-engineered beyond the human norm and he's a better tactitian. He'll soon realise that he can't beat Azreal with skill or power, so he'll out-think him.

'Beyond the human norm' doesn't mean he's super-strong. Maybe that technically means he possesses super strength compared to everyone else, as supposedly, no one that doesn't possess enhanced strength is stronger than Cap, but Captain America is still very much human. He's the physical peak of human capability, which means the Super-Soldier Serum remolded his body to have the perfect physique, the perfect physical frame, the perfect genetic make-up, the perfect bodily systems, etc. He's the perfect human specimen, but he's still only human. As far as I'm aware, Azrael is superhumanly enhanced.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
'Beyond the human norm' doesn't mean he's super-strong. Maybe that technically means he possesses super strength compared to everyone else, as supposedly, no one that doesn't possess enhanced strength is stronger than Cap, but Captain America is still very much human. He's the physical peak of human capability, which means the Super-Soldier Serum remolded his body to have the perfect physique, the perfect physical frame, the perfect genetic make-up, the perfect bodily systems, etc. He's the perfect human specimen, but he's still only human. As far as I'm aware, Azrael is superhumanly enhanced.

Good point, but I'd say he's at least strong enough to stand up to Azrael (like the Thing is strong enough to stand up to the Hulk).

True.

The one fight I remember reading between Batman and Azrael was when Batman came back after a hiatus because Azrael had basically gone batsh*t. If I remember correctly, his biggest issue was that he couldn't get through the armor, while his opponents weapons would eventually do him in. Well, Cap's shield eliminates the latter problem, and likely help him witht he former as well. Cap is just as fast and agile as Batman, at least as good a fighter if not better, and is incredibly skilled with his shield. I'm not saying Azrael CAN'T beat Cap, but I am saying Cap takes it more times out of ten.

Originally posted by Khellendros
The one fight I remember reading between Batman and Azrael was when Batman came back after a hiatus because Azrael had basically gone batsh*t. If I remember correctly, his biggest issue was that he couldn't get through the armor, while his opponents weapons would eventually do him in. Well, Cap's shield eliminates the latter problem, and likely help him witht he former as well. Cap is just as fast and agile as Batman, at least as good a fighter if not better, and is incredibly skilled with his shield. I'm not saying Azrael CAN'T beat Cap, but I am saying Cap takes it more times out of ten.

That was Azbats, go into the 'badass moments' thread in the general comic movie forums and on page 2 I posted the scans of normal Azrael beating the crap out of Batman.

As far as Cap hurtin Azrael, Az GAVE Bane THREE full on shots after getting his ass kicked, getting pumped full of venom, escaping a sinking ship, going two days with no food and fighting off the addiction of said venom, then after taking these shots, Azrael STILL proceeded to beat Bane. Not saying that Cap can't hurt him, but Batman nailed Azrael with two of his 'best punches, punches that could shatter oak planks' after Azrael was supposed to be dead, had fougth the spirit of St. Dumas himself, and yet it barely fazed him.

I can see Azrael easily dodging/catching a thrown shield, and in H2H, he would be taking less, while dealing out more.

Not to say it's a sure win, because Caps is definitly a tough ass, but I say Azrael can take it 5-7/10 (I'm not finished with Azrael's comics, but I will be shortly)

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Not to say it's a sure win, because Caps is definitly a tough ass, but I say Azrael can take it 5-7/10 (I'm not finished with Azrael's comics, but I will be shortly)
That's actually the same percentage I'd say Cap takes over Azrael. It'd be a badass fight to see though, either way.

Originally posted by Khellendros
That's actually the same percentage I'd say Cap takes over Azrael. It'd be a badass fight to see though, either way.

It'd be all like, "RED WHITE AND BLUE! The funnies things you do! America! America! We love you!"

Wait... wrong theme song.

are those his greatest feats? in the knightfall saga and maybe sword of azrael?

Originally posted by Mider
are those his greatest feats? in the knightfall saga and maybe sword of azrael?

Huh?

I can't find your azrael respect thread when i type it in the search

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413405

Here's some fodder for the fire.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
No one?
Azrael is physically superior in every way, but mentally inferior in every way. He's got better long range weapons, but Cap's got a perfect short range weapon.

Good fight, but I think Azrael beats his ass but good. 7/10

I have now seen his feats, and though i am impressed you have shown nothing that cap cannot do, and in the skill department he seems to be lacking.

Cap takes this big time, Long Pig just loves to think cap loses, so it doesnt matter what he says, if it aint Dr.Strange he dont know jack shit no way

I think it's much closer than you give it credit for. Batman himself stated CA would win in a fit between them simply because CA would outlast him.

Seeing what Azrael did to Batman, I don't see how CA would take the majority. I can see him winning, yes, but at best it's 50/50.

Originally posted by King KAM
I have now seen his feats, and though i am impressed you have shown nothing that cap cannot do, and in the skill department he seems to be lacking.

Cap takes this big time, Long Pig just loves to think cap loses, so it doesnt matter what he says, if it aint Dr.Strange he dont know jack shit no way
Cap loses because he's too tired from remaking the universe in his own image.

He never got to rest on the seventh day.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I think it's much closer than you give it credit for. Batman himself stated CA would win in a fit between them simply because CA would outlast him.

Seeing what Azrael did to Batman, I don't see how CA would take the majority. I can see him winning, yes, but at best it's 50/50.
Marvel vs D.C?

I don't think that counts, even IF the Batman/Cap fight was written well.

You meant JLA/Avengers

Oh, I didn't read that. Any good?

Still, does that even count?

Depends. I've heard from sources DC made reference to the events in that storyline. It wasn't great, but it was readable. Marvel vs. DC was horrible. It was a fan voted popularity contest. It had Wolvie beating Lobo & Aqaman beating Namor!

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I think it's much closer than you give it credit for. Batman himself stated CA would win in a fit between them simply because CA would outlast him.

Seeing what Azrael did to Batman, I don't see how CA would take the majority. I can see him winning, yes, but at best it's 50/50. no batman did not say that thats why cap would win, he simply said it would take a long time, but since when is Bats a psychic???

True

Originally posted by King KAM
no batman did not say that thats why cap would win, he simply said it would take a long time, but since when is Bats a psychic???

Who needs to be a psychic to know that unless something unexpected happens, you're not going to win the fight?

I mean, every time I've ever been matched up against someone, if I knew I couldn't win, I typically knew pretty early in the match, as well as why.

He said, as far as I remember, that Captain America would simply outlast him.

Originally posted by Nataku8188


Seeing what Azrael did to Batman,

What did Az do to Batman?

by the way Batman is a trained psychic/sensitive in Denial. In MASSIVE Denial.

Azarel during the Contagion Saga had matured greatly and grown in competence compared with his knightfall persona

Azarel 10/10 while Cap is holding the shield up against Azarel's flamethrowers, shurikens and blinding light blasts Az will skewer him with his trusty blade.

Originally posted by don't shiv
by the way Batman is a trained psychic/sensitive in Denial. In MASSIVE Denial.

Azarel during the Contagion Saga had matured greatly and grown in competence compared with his knightfall persona

Azarel 10/10 while Cap is holding the shield up against Azarel's flamethrowers, shurikens and blinding light blasts Az will skewer him with his trusty blade.

I dunno ive got quite a few Az comics I dont see how Az feats are over Caps.

Look at the respect thread I linked.