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The guy who wrote the article below is a complete fool. I hope this moron doesn't have any children of his own.

Part II...

bump.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
bump.

No need to bump after only 8 mins

I'm not a fan of corporal punishment, because it can be taken too far and become physical abuse by some individuals. Though it's a pretty big leap equating parent disciplining their child to sexual abuse. "Children are sexual beings." wtf?

This...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4722785.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4719751.stm
is sexual abuse.
Completely sickening.

It really depends on why that kid is geting spankin.If it is all the time for no reason then yea it is abuse.But if not then there is nothering wrong with spanking a kid if they had behave badly nor is it abuse.jmbottom

Spaking is ok, beating is not and time out is crap as it never works.

there is nothing wrong with spanking. I believe in discipline and self-respect. when you tell a child to be quiet and stop acting a fool in public then you must spank them if they continue to do it on purpose. if a child runs around walmart and could be lost, then they must be disciplined so they won't to it again, because some weirdo might grab the kid. spanking teaches a lesson, either that to spoil the child which would put them in harms way. people do go to far with it and then it becomes abuse. the parent is the boss not the child and you want them to know that. I work in walmart and I see so many kids running around and the parents do nothing about it, for all I know they could be kidnapped or maybe running in the parking lot, getting run over by some aggressive driver wanting that last parking space. spanking makes them grow up in the future and become better people, people who aren't disciplined will always be spoon fed even when they are well out of college and still have to depend on momma for many things, when they are old enough to do it themselves. my aunt never spanked her kids, but they grew up spoiled and bratty, they are in college and none of them ever held a job before and aren't even mature enough to do anything else but to ask for stuff when the time is to grow up and do it themselves.

Spanking is fine. This BS about it being sexual abuse is a bunch of horse sh*t. The only people that would think it sexual, are those who deep down intend for it to be sexual. Its coming to the point where soon enough it will be considered inappropriate to bathe your children, because some sorry excuse for a psychology major said it may insinuate sexual intentions. Never up to about 20 years or so ago was it considered inappropriate to spank your kinds, let alone the possibility that it was SEXUAL. What rubbish.

Ofcourse there ARE people with twisted minds, but theyre there mainly because the media fed them crap like "If your father hugged you it means he wants to have sex with you" (exadurated, but close), to the point where they become paranoind and freak out, and later on in life become twisted themselves.

liberals don't believe in spanking, but conservatives do. if the parent really loves the child they would spank them, but if they never loved them, then they won't do it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Though it's a pretty big leap equating parent disciplining their child to sexual abuse. "Children are sexual beings." wtf?

This...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4722785.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4719751.stm
is sexual abuse.
Completely sickening.

Exactly. Originally when I read the essay I was under the assumption that it was a joke. But when I viewed the sources and realized the guy was a member of the "no-spank" web ring, needless to say..I was freakin speechless. A lot of what he posted was taken from Freud's outdated and generally disregarded "psycho-sexual" essays/research.

Hopefully no one will take this moron's teachings seriously. His stupidity once again demonstrates the gradual decline of "common sense" in today's world.

Originally posted by cking
if the parent really loves the child they would spank them

^ that there is complete rubbish. Some kids need to be spanked. Of course some don't, different people learn differently, you get kids that are naturally very obedient, then you get kids that learn what not to do only after you give them a swift smack on the a$$. I guarantee that any child that was ever spanked (within reason, I don't mean severe beatings) will grow up with a completely healthy mentality.

read the quote again.

I'm not saying you think that, I'm just saying the theory is preposterous.

Originally posted by cking
liberals don't believe in spanking, but conservatives do.

generalised bullshit.
i know liberal parents who have no problem at all laying 5 fingers across their kids' asses when they misbehave.

but hey, dont let me stop you from blaming every single one of society's problems on the liberals. whatever helps you sleep at night


BLAME THE LIBERALS!!!!


oh, and JP's right. beating is just wrong. all it does is desensitize the kid (if you dont manage to cause serious damage.) every kid i know that was beaten by their parents turned out to be violent, and delinquent.
"time out" just tells kids that all they have to do to get out of trouble is sit there and pretend to be guilty. so to beat you're being a savage and turn your kid into a savage. and "time out" just makes you look like a sucker, so forget about earning your kid's respect.

Originally posted by Kosta
^ that there is complete rubbish. Some kids need to be spanked. Of course some don't,

thats true as well. if you happen to have one of those kids that know how to behave, dont feel like you still have to spank them out of some parental obligation. just count your lucky stars and leave it at that.

Anyone posted Maddox yet?...no....great.....

Love your kids? - Maddox

As for me, I hope its possible to raise great individuas without physical punishment...but if not, I don't think a slap once in a whie hurts a kids psyche.......I mean it works with dogs doesn't it.....

Now I know why I love being spanked

..why does it always have to turn into something political..why..why..why..

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
..why does it always have to turn into something political..why..why..why..

I tried to lighten the mood with "one" of my fetishes

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Now I know why I love being spanked


although its only an offer to females

I hate the way society thinks these days. Every little thing seems to be wrong. Sexual abuse? Hell NO. Discipline? YES!
Kids act like little shits these days because they don't get any discipline. Why? Because if they get spanked or hit with a belt it's abuse. Oh so let's sit back and say "no honey, don't ever stab your brother wth a knife again, it's wrong." Sad.

this is a joke... a spanking when neccessary does no harm whatsoever...

sexual beings... bullshit...

Originally posted by pr1983
this is a joke... a spanking when neccessary does no harm whatsoever...

sexual beings... bullshit...

Indeed I've never found a spanking does me any harm

As for the sexual beings bit Excuse me I've got to get some tissues

Seriously, Parents are not allowed to spank in England anymore which is ridiculous, I believe you still can in Ireland Pr is that correct?

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Seriously, Parents are not allowed to spank in England anymore which is ridiculous, I believe you still can in Ireland Pr is that correct?

Barely, but the government will probably follow the English example... idiots...

Originally posted by pr1983
Barely, but the government will probably follow the English example... idiots...

It certainly is

Originally posted by bilb


Not only is this just insane, its scientifically INACCURATE!! What friggin nerve endings? Does this guy even know basic anatomy? You know WHY you spank a child on the butt? Because thats the area with most padding!! You dont want to hurt th ekid but sometimes (alot of the time) a spanking is the only way to get a kids attention... Yes beating a kid is horribly wrong, but ther eis a BIG difference in the two.. And who wants to bet this moron either a) has no kids of his own or B) has the BRATTIEST kids on th eplanet.. th eones you HATE to be around at the supermarket or movie theatre because they aree so unruly because .. wait for it................. lack of discipline by their parents!! Idiot

Your both right actually Bilb its not an area that has a great deal of neurons, but the neurons it has are meningeal linked and thats why as adults we get some sexual stimulation from having our buttocks stroke.

I'm sure you've noticed it

Originally posted by whirlysplat
It certainly is



Your both right actually Bilb its not an area that has a great deal of neurons, but the neurons it has are meningeal linked and thats why as adults we get some sexual stimulation from having our buttocks stroke.

I'm sure you've noticed it

but thats it... adults, not children... so the guy is a few years too early...

Whirly, Sweetie.. lets not turn this into a discussion about what Bilb does & does NOT know about sex & sexual stimulation.. PM me if you are really interested PG 13 remember?

My point is that there are erogenous zones throughout the body.. if I whisper a secret into my kids ear am I trying to turn him on? FFS ..

Originally posted by pr1983
but thats it... adults, not children... so the guy is a few years too early...

Their is an argument we learn oru sexual behaviour as children. I certainly remember getting erections at primary school due to sexual stimuli, long before I was sexually aware I bet you do to.

Originally posted by bilb
Whirly, Sweetie.. lets not turn this into a discussion about what Bilb does & does NOT know about sex & sexual stimulation.. PM me if you are really interested PG 13 remember?

My point is that there are erogenous zones throughout the body.. if I whisper a secret into my kids ear am I trying to turn him on? FFS ..



Of course your not, but boys and girls respond to sexual stimuli long before they are concious they are doing so. As I am sure you are aware.
I know I did, I'm sure I am not alone.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Their is an argument we learn oru sexual behaviour as children. I certainly remember getting erections at primary school due to sexual stimuli, long before I was sexually aware I bet you do to.

Yeah, but never from getting slapped... the pain outweighed any pleasure that may have come from it...

that is so fuking stupid. my parents wouldn't give a shhit about these articles. it's not tlike they whooped me with their hands. it was more like a belt a switch a hose, basically anything long and bendable

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Their is an argument we learn oru sexual behaviour as children. I certainly remember getting erections at primary school due to sexual stimuli, long before I was sexually aware I bet you do to.

if you were getting an erection cause your teacher spanked you and that was more memorable than the punishment itself then I think this article was written for you and you alone :P

Originally posted by bilb
if you were getting an erection cause your teacher spanked you and that was more memorable than the punishment itself then I think this article was written for you and you alone :P


homermay be it was, may be it was................

Originally posted by whirlysplat
homermay be it was, may be it was................

I am suspecting that Tom Johnson, the guy who was quoted in the thread's first post, has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

That being the WHY he wrote all that.

Originally posted by GCG
I am suspecting that Tom Johnson, the guy who was quoted in the thread's first post, has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

That being the WHY he wrote all that.

Or his a psychologist or an arse cause I don't know any psychologists who are arses

Anyone remember "Siggy" Freud in "Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure" I know he was a Psychiatrist which means he has a medical degree but it still works

He is a psychologist that has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

Originally posted by GCG
He is a psychologist that has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

do you know him well then GCG thats how rumours start

Originally posted by GCG
He is a psychologist that has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

Not exactly an inspired career choice given his views is it?

i wouldnt know ; but dont mis-quote me.

I said i suspected it in the previous post. Then perhaps a mixturte of both in the latter.

Originally posted by GCG
i wouldnt know ; but dont mis-quote me.

I said i suspected it in the previous post. Then perhaps a mixturte of both in the latter.


I never misquote

Originally posted by GCG
He is a psychologist that has experienced some form of sexual abuse.

But I understand what your saying, I don't necessarily agree with you, as your comment is purely assumption and supposition, but hey thats cool.

He has a view based on some reasoning which you and I both feel is flawed, at least viewed only from one angle, to make the kind of assumption above without greater evidence is as flawed as his ideas.

Its a possibility though and I guess thats what you really meant and in that I agree

I suspect is not 100% certain as certain as your guess can be 100% certain.

Besides 'experienced some form of sexual abuse' cannot solely be interpreted as a direct experience. It can possibly be that he is a pschyologist working in a school who has encountered this phenomena amongst pupils.

Originally posted by GCG
I suspect is not 100% certain as certain as your guess can be 100% certain.

Besides 'experienced some form of sexual abuse' cannot solely be interpreted as a direct experience. It can possibly be that he is a pschyologist working in a school who has encountered this phenomena amongst pupils.

More unfounded assumptions CGC your not a psychologist are you? Perhaps he has false memories of assault (you've got me at it now) Lets just disagree with him debating why? is one step beyond

And this is why psychoanalysis is a dying practice.

Here's the deal, spanking isn't abuse unless it really gets out of hand - If the parent really goes to town with the intent on really hurting the kid, then it's abuse just like any other. However, the normal "spank" which is more or less just a little tap for intimidation factors is not abuse, it depends on the strength the parent puts fourth.

However, spanking is often a direct result of lazy and ignorant parenting. Spanking your kid, has, psychologically shown to cause more harm then good to the psyche of the children. So it probably shouldn't be done, only in maybe extreme rare circumstances. However, it hitting your kid is the only way to get him to stop being a little assclown, then there are probably more serious problems at hand and he should be taken to the doctor to see if he may have some kind of personallity disorder or something.

A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that.

if the kid is acting really wrong they should be punished..
coz so called 'non-stresfull- bringing up is crap.
it only makes kids feeling unchastised(?) and they they are allowed to do everything.

maybe i'm old..but it is really totally annoying to see little idiot doing something wrong..and their even more idiotic mummy/daddy saying that it's ok coz the kid can't have stress.


as for the sexual part of it..i don't know.. i don't think that kids think of it like that. rather it is in the 'it hurts' way

To avoid a bunch of 's, this one's for Bardock:

The next 8-year old that cruises through my neighborhood on a moped will get more than a spanking from me!

moped?

Originally posted by botankus
To avoid a bunch of 's, this one's for Bardock:

The next 8-year old that cruises through my neighborhood on a moped will get more than a spanking from me!

Hmm....if I wouldn'*t know what you are talking aboot you would get a nice .....

But yes...i guess that's the least you can do...that is if you don't have a nice gun at home.....

Originally posted by cking
liberals don't believe in spanking, but conservatives do. if the parent really loves the child they would spank them, but if they never loved them, then they won't do it.

Funny. I'm a liberal by American definition, yet I believe that children should receive a few slight slams to keep them in line. And I fully believe they should bring the strap back to school to keep tweens and teenagers in line. Just the thought of kids that age being beaten and shown what it truly means to be punished and their smug little smiles wiped off their faces, would bring great joy to my mouth.



I also firmly believe this as the bible of child discipline
http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

:P JK, but really it's a funny read.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But yes...i guess that's the least you can do...that is if you don't have a nice gun at home.....

I might go Headless Horseman on their asses if I there was a horse around. There's a farm down the street but it only has cows.

Originally posted by meiwaku
Funny. I'm a liberal by American definition, yet I believe that children should receive a few slight slams to keep them in line. And I fully believe they should bring the strap back to school to keep tweens and teenagers in line. Just the thought of kids that age being beaten and shown what it truly means to be punished and their smug little smiles wiped off their faces, would bring great joy to my mouth.



I also firmly believe this as the bible of child discipline
http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

:P JK, but really it's a funny read.

HAHAHAHAHAH I got it first....GO ME.....

Originally posted by botankus
I might go Headless Horseman on their asses if I there was a horse around. There's a farm down the street but it only has cows.

Hmm.....you could go Headless Mopedman though....take their mopeds and beath them to death with them (well not all to death....just a little....)

Just a little bit of death?

So girls any of you want to spank an adult? You can dress me as a baby if you want

Only if your over 18 though!!!!!

Ooh, this thread just got a LOT more interesting....

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So girls any of you want to spank an adult? You can dress me as a baby if you want

Originally posted by botankus
Just a little bit of death?
Well....like if you have "morals" or "beliefs" and don't like to kill people .... I personally ca't understand such behaviour........

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So girls any of you want to spank an adult? You can dress me as a baby if you want

Only if your over 18 though!!!!!

Let me quote arsenal and one of the greatest stories ever written on this board:
DUDE!!!!!!! SICK!!!!!!!

whirlysplat, I have to say that even if you are joking, you seem incapable of differentiating between important discussion and Off Topic crap

Originally posted by Syren
whirlysplat, I have to say that even if you are joking, you seem incapable of differentiating between important discussion and Off Topic crap

So can I take that as a no wounded2

Sorry, I just don't think this is a serious topic in Englad as parents are no longer allowed to spank here by law anyway.

Originally posted by FeceMan
And this is why psychoanalysis is a dying practice.

So true shitman

if your kid is being an ass give him a spankin just...no belt that hurts...lol

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So can I take that as a no wounded2

Sorry I just don't think this is a serious topic in the UK as parents are no longer allowed to spank here by law anyway.

When did this law come about? I live in the East of England and as far as I know they are still allowed to...

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So can I take that as a no wounded2

Sorry, I just don't think this is a serious topic in Englad as parents are no longer allowed to spank here by law anyway. not allowed by law?



I don't get it.
I hate the idea of beating anyone. but if the kid does something really bad it has to get punishment..and i honestly never understood the pont of being 'grounded'

Originally posted by whirlysplat
So can I take that as a no wounded2

Sorry, I just don't think this is a serious topic in Englad as parents are no longer allowed to spank here by law anyway.

Well we can still discuss our own opinion...doesn't matter what the law says

Look: I can even say I think killing people is right....also the law says its not.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look: I can even say I think killing people is right....also the law says its not..... killing ppl in order to make up a perfect ones?

Originally posted by Syren
When did this law come about? I live in the East of England and as far as I know they are still allowed to...

Actually the House of Lords voted down the ban and it has not become Law yet MP's voted yes and it will become so early next year.

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Austria, have already outlawed all physical punishment of children and we are set to follow.


http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/006186.html

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/006186.html


http://www.corpun.com/ukd00405.htm

Even so at present we are at odds with European law and the European Court of Human Rights OLd article 2001

The European Court stated in its judgement:

the government must be held responsible because 'children and other vulnerable individuals in particular were entitled to protection, in the form of effective deterrence, from such forms of ill-treatment.

English law, which provided that the prosecution had to prove that an assault on a child went beyond the limits of reasonable punishment, did not provide adequate protection to the applicant.

The Strasbourg judgement, it should be pointed out, did not actually ban corporal punishment and did not prevent British parents from spanking their children, but it did open the door wide to further challenges to the 1860 law which permits spanking, since the European Court concluded that the British law inadequately protected children.

Fortunately, the British government has rejected the European ruling, stating that "the government still believes in parental discipline." According to the British Minister of Health, Paul Boateng:

Smacking has a place within that, and our law will not change in order to outlaw smacking.

... But ... we are equally determined to ensure that nothing undermines a parent's right to discipline a child within a caring and loving environment.

Which could be invoked theoretically by a child.

So No its no illegal yet, but it is against European Law

Social Services take a dim view of it in any case in the uk.

As do the NSPPC etc as someone who was removed and eventually adopted due to child abuse. I do realise the seriousness of this debate although, I do not think the article being discussed is very serious.

-The Whirly one

Originally posted by Clovie
killing ppl in order to make up a perfect ones?

I said I can say that...not that I do want it.......

Originally posted by Bardock42
I said I can say that...not that I do want it....... so what?
it still sounded evil.

Originally posted by BackFire


However, spanking is often a direct result of lazy and ignorant parenting. Spanking your kid, has, psychologically shown to cause more harm then good to the psyche of the children. So it probably shouldn't be done, only in maybe extreme rare circumstances. However, it hitting your kid is the only way to get him to stop being a little assclown, then there are probably more serious problems at hand and he should be taken to the doctor to see if he may have some kind of personallity disorder or something.

A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that.

BF do you have kids?? Cause before I had em I used to say the exact same thing. you know what I found out? Psychological studies dont mean shit on this issue.. I swore I would NEVER spank my kids,, was all high & mighty on the 'proper' type of discipline & the use of positive reinforcement.. thats all well & good but there are alot of times when spanking is the only thing that works.. my kids are not mentally unstable (cant believe I just typed that seeing as how much they drive ME insane ) and while I have my faults I am a good parent so such a cut & dry statement as "A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that" is not only inaccurate its offensive...

Originally posted by Clovie
so what?
it still sounded evil.
Hmm well...for me it soundedn very neutral....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm well...for me it soundedn very neutral.... sorry then

Originally posted by bilb
BF do you have kids?? Cause before I had em I used to say the exact same thing. you know what I found out? Psychological studies dont mean shit on this issue.. I swore I would NEVER spank my kids,, was all high & mighty on the 'proper' type of discipline & the use of positive reinforcement.. thats all well & good but there are alot of times when spanking is the only thing that works.. my kids are not mentally unstable (cant believe I just typed that seeing as how much they drive ME insane ) and while I have my faults I am a good parent so such a cut & dry statement as "A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that" is not only inaccurate its offensive...



I have to agree with bilb, although I don't have kids, BF did make a very simple generalisation

Even now, when my boyfriend and I discuss the ways we would like to rear our children, his views are sometimes very different from mine. I would love to think I could have perfect children, ones who would never step out of line, who I would never have to berate or punish, but I'm realistic enough to know that my kids will probably be as badass as everyone else's, and as normal.

I used to say I would let my kids do all the things I was never allowed to do, smoke, drink, stay out til all hours, whatever, but now I know for sure that I will implement ground rules, there will be curfews and my kids will not be allowed to take the piss just because I felt suffocated as a child. If a spanking is necessary, that's what they'll get. I won't beat my kids, but I will let them know when they crossed the line, and how far they've gone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that making a statement like BF's has got to be the worst thing, especially if you have no children. You can always vow to do this, or not to do that, but until you have first hand experience in bringing up kids sweeping statements should be left to the professionals. And by professionals I mean parents.

Originally posted by bilb
BF do you have kids?? Cause before I had em I used to say the exact same thing. you know what I found out? Psychological studies dont mean shit on this issue.. I swore I would NEVER spank my kids,, was all high & mighty on the 'proper' type of discipline & the use of positive reinforcement.. thats all well & good but there are alot of times when spanking is the only thing that works.. my kids are not mentally unstable (cant believe I just typed that seeing as how much they drive ME insane ) and while I have my faults I am a good parent so such a cut & dry statement as "A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that" is not only inaccurate its offensive...

I'm glad someone said this. I don't have kids but when i do I expect that my views will be similar to bilb's.

Originally posted by bilb
BF do you have kids?? Cause before I had em I used to say the exact same thing. you know what I found out? Psychological studies dont mean shit on this issue.. I swore I would NEVER spank my kids,, was all high & mighty on the 'proper' type of discipline & the use of positive reinforcement.. thats all well & good but there are alot of times when spanking is the only thing that works.. my kids are not mentally unstable (cant believe I just typed that seeing as how much they drive ME insane ) and while I have my faults I am a good parent so such a cut & dry statement as "A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that" is not only inaccurate its offensive...

Welll maybe you are not that good after all....or your kids are not that great.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Welll maybe you are not that good after all....or your kids are not that great.....


Oh dear Your being very, very bad with this post Bardock

Originally posted by Bardock42
Welll maybe you are not that good after all....or your kids are not that great.....

That was completely out of line B nono

I don't have any kids. However, I'm all for physical punishment. Sometimes kids only respond to such things. However, there is a difference between spanking and beating. Everyone understands that concept. So parents take it too far, that's a fact. When you see some parent holding their child by the wrist, repeatedly slapping the kid...while dragging him across the parking lot back to the car...is wrong. That's just too extreme.

But it raises the question of where is the line crossed? I would say it has more to do with where the parent is coming from when he/she dishes out the punishment. If the parent is just fed up and actually physically hurting the child out of anger, then it is no longer about teaching the child a lesson, so much as it serves as an outlet for the parents frustration and anger.


On another note, I'd be interested to see the public reaction to certain other groups spanking their children in public. Whatwould happen if two men were raising the child in a loving home that just so happened tro subscribe to spanking as a form of punishment. How many people would correlate spanking to sexual abuse in the case of a gay parent?

I wouldn't.

About your other point, you're right, there is a difference between spanking for correctional purposes and taking it too far with beating.

Now getting licked by a horse, that's a whole new ball game there...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Welll maybe you are not that good after all....or your kids are not that great.....

Dude dont EVEN.. insult me all you like.. I dont care, I'm a big girl, I can take it.. But when it comes to my kids BACK THE F*CK OFF...

Originally posted by bilb
Dude dont EVEN.. insult me all you like.. I dont care, I'm a big girl, I can take it.. But when it comes to my kids BACK THE F*CK OFF...
I hope he is suitably embarressed much as I like Bardock he does sometimes forget others feelings, decorum and over step the mark. I think he is an intelligent guy but actually much younger than he pretends.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Oh dear Your being very, very bad with this post Bardock Originally posted by Syren
That was completely out of line B nono Originally posted by bilb
Dude dont EVEN.. insult me all you like.. I dont care, I'm a big girl, I can take it.. But when it comes to my kids BACK THE F*CK OFF...

Whoa whoa whoa ....easy there.....you people would have nailed Jesus to a tree for saying how great it woulmd be if people were nice to each other......

No seriously....it could be the reason....now really why look for the fault in the system...maybe its just the people......

Furthermore I didn't insult you.....nor your children but just stated an opinion....a theoretical opinion.....not related to your case...........................although........

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I hope he is suitably embarressed much as I like Bardock he does sometimes forget others feelings, decorum and over step the mark. I think he is an intelligent guy but actually much younger than he pretends.

I dislike you.....no really....I just really can't stand you.......I hate debating with you....n ot cause you are good...that's not it....cause you are you........

Here I crossed the line

But I only pretend to be 19 how much younger can I really be?


And since you assume or at least consider it possible that I am embarassed by my statement you don't seem to have given our previous arguements to much attention....you know I don't care for other people (I mean neither do you, but that's a different thing).......

Bardock, you really don't care for other people?

In that case, what exactly is the point of you even posting here? Or joining KMC for that matter?

You were out of order in your statement with regard to bilb and you know it. Whether you act your age or not, anyone around the age of 19 can see you were in the wrong.

The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I.

Gotcha

Originally posted by Syren
Bardock, you really don't care for other people?

In that case, what exactly is the point of you even posting here? Or joining KMC for that matter?

You were out of order in your statement with regard to bilb and you know it. Whether you act your age or not, anyone around the age of 19 can see you were in the wrong.

Well I care for some but in general...no...not really

Point in joining KMC is that I like to argue...I like to read a good post (granted I could have read it without joining), I like to write stuff as pointless as it sometimes may be....so I joined KMC for my fun which at that time didn't involve caring fopr company or being in a community to feel good (it still doesn't but there are some people here I vry much enjoy talking to)

It was not...in no way....It was the most reasonable thing to think....why should beating be ok just cause she needs it to raise her kids...others don't......I don't say its worse or better to beat your kids...but if they need beating it is either cause the parent can't deal with it differen or the kid needs them once in a while...some kids are like that......I didn't mean to say that her kids are psychos...and I didn't...youi all just took it wrong...I don't blame you for it though.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I.

Bardock and me...I am pretty sure .... but yes it is.....

Ok whatever... you have your opinion, I have mine, we certainly aren't going to agree on the fact that you insulted someone you don't even know

But I do agree with the fact that some kids need certain discipline and others need a different kind... you, however, have no room to point out which discipline bilb's kids needed.

Originally posted by Syren
Ok whatever... you have your opinion, I have mine, we certainly aren't going to agree on the fact that you insulted someone you don't even know

But I do agree with the fact that some kids need certain discipline and others need a different kind... you, however, have no room to point out which discipline bilb's kids needed.

Well obviously....whoms opinion should I have except for mine? ....but I don't doubt that she might have felt insulted but I didn't insult her on purpose...there'S really nothing to argue aboot...I just didn't...you can have as much opinion on that as you want...I did not.....

I never claimed I know how much beating her kids need....I just said that the amount they need very much depends on them and for people like BF who says that no beating in a normal family should take place....its either because the parent is aggreasive or the Kids are undisciplined....I just think she takes it to personal....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well I care for some but in general...no...not really

Point in joining KMC is that I like to argue...I like to read a good post (granted I could have read it without joining), I like to write stuff as pointless as it sometimes may be....so I joined KMC for my fun which at that time didn't involve caring fopr company or being in a community to feel good (it still doesn't but there are some people here I vry much enjoy talking to)

It was not...in no way....It was the most reasonable thing to think....why should beating be ok just cause she needs it to raise her kids...others don't......I don't say its worse or better to beat your kids...but if they need beating it is either cause the parent can't deal with it differen or the kid needs them once in a while...some kids are like that......I didn't mean to say that her kids are psychos...and I didn't...youi all just took it wrong...I don't blame you for it though.


Bardock and me...I am pretty sure .... but yes it is.....

nope, its "Bardock and I", even a dyslexic like me knows that.


Hence why the Queen says "my husband and I"

nitpicking never pays

Originally posted by whirlysplat


Hmm possible its my second language I might be (and probably are) wrong...I jsut had a really bad feeling aboot it.....oh well.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Hence why the Queen says "my husband and I"


No, no...that is different....you were refering of a thread we both attended that's why I think "me" is the correct form
If you want to say "Bardock and I are good friends" that is right....but you have to say "It happened in another thread of Bardock and me" ....

Again I could be wrong...its just my feeling...I don't know English Grammar very well....

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, no...that is different....you were refering of a thread we both attended that's why I think "me" is the correct form
If you want to say "Bardock and I are good friends" that is right....but you have to say "It happened in another thread of Bardock and me" ....

Again I could be wrong...its just my feeling...I don't know English Grammar very well....

I think you are, but I am despite having a post grad degree in a Science have a number of Specific Learning Difficulties where grammer and spelling are concerned

Originally posted by whirlysplat
I think you are, but I am despite having a post grad degree in a Science have a number of Specific Learning Difficulties where grammer and spelling are concerned

Don't feel to bad aboot it.....I mean Language isn't important in the long run, whole Science is everlasting and true....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Don't feel to bad aboot it.....I mean Language isn't important in the long run, whole Science is everlasting and true....

Very true and I almost felt your compassion

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Very true and I almost felt your compassion

Yes almost......I like Scientists....I have to say they are one of my favorite people just for being scientists......

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes almost......I like Scientists....I have to say they are one of my favorite people just for being scientists...... [/QUOTE

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes almost......I like Scientists....I have to say they are one of my favorite people just for being scientists......
Yes...but I like them cause I chose to like them.......not cause I feel compassion........

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, no...that is different....you were refering of a thread we both attended that's why I think "me" is the correct form
If you want to say "Bardock and I are good friends" that is right....but you have to say "It happened in another thread of Bardock and me" ....

Again I could be wrong...its just my feeling...I don't know English Grammar very well....

You're wrong, through no fault of your own if it's your second language. It is 'Bardock and I', no matter the context. It wil always be 'Bardock and I', but will never be 'I and Bardock'. This would then become 'Me and Bardock', never 'Bardock and Me'.

Originally posted by Syren
You're wrong, through no fault of your own if it's your second language. It is 'Bardock and I', no matter the context. It wil always be 'Bardock and I', but will never be 'I and Bardock'. This would then become 'Me and Bardock', never 'Bardock and Me'.

Is that true...well then....I can't always be right now can I

Originally posted by Bardock42
Is that true...well then....I can't always be right now can I
The reason it is 'Bardock and I' is because, if one were to change the sentence around so that 'Bardock and I' came before the verb, it would be:

"Bardock and I were in another thread..."

Instead of

"Bardock and me were in another thread..."

Taking out the Bardock, one gets "I was in another thread..." (when changing the conjugation to match the subject) versus "Me were in another thread..."

I'm a little confused by what Syren was saying--there WILL be cases where 'Bardock and me' would be appropriate, such as "FeceMan's grammatical knowledge just sodomized Bardock, Syren, and me".

Originally posted by FeceMan
The reason it is 'Bardock and I' is because, if one were to change the sentence around so that 'Bardock and I' came before the verb, it would be:

"Bardock and I were in another thread..."

Instead of

"Bardock and me were in another thread..."

Taking out the Bardock, one gets "I was in another thread..." (when changing the conjugation to match the subject) versus "Me were in another thread..."

I'm a little confused by what Syren was saying--there WILL be cases where 'Bardock and me' would be appropriate, such as "FeceMan's grammatical knowledge just sodomized Bardock, Syren, and me".


But that is what I was saying.... I said in the beginning of a sentence it has to be "Bardock and I" and in the end it has to be " Bardock and me" ....that'S what you are saying too...I mean I am still rather sure theat I am right so...here's to you Mr. FeceMan:

"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I."

Is this sentence right or wrong?

Originally posted by FeceMan
The reason it is 'Bardock and I' is because, if one were to change the sentence around so that 'Bardock and I' came before the verb, it would be:

"Bardock and I were in another thread..."

Instead of

"Bardock and me were in another thread..."

Taking out the Bardock, one gets "I was in another thread..." (when changing the conjugation to match the subject) versus "Me were in another thread..."

I'm a little confused by what Syren was saying--there WILL be cases where 'Bardock and me' would be appropriate, such as "FeceMan's grammatical knowledge just sodomized Bardock, Syren, and me".



I tried... I failed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But that is what I was saying.... I said in the beginning of a sentence it has to be "Bardock and I" and in the end it has to be " Bardock and me" ....that'S what you are saying too...I mean I am still rather sure theat I am right so...here's to you Mr. FeceMan:

"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I."

Is this sentence right or wrong?

Correct...

Originally posted by Syren
Correct...

I am aware of your opinion.....that's why its to fece.....

Ok... But that sentence is correct.

Originally posted by Syren
Ok... But that sentence is correct.

Yes......maybe......but what Fece said sounded more reasobnable to me....
And on what do you base your belief that its right.....

And is my alternative wrong?

"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I."

I believe this to be grammatically correct in comparison to;

"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and me."

Based on my knowledge of the English language...

Originally posted by Syren
"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and I."

I believe this to be grammatically correct in comparison to;

"The caring comment is a clever joke, due to another thread between Bardock and me."

Based on my knowledge of the English language...

Yes...well that's the same source I have so i would like a third and fourth (and so on) opinion.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well I care for some but in general...no...not really

Point in joining KMC is that I like to argue...I like to read a good post (granted I could have read it without joining), I like to write stuff as pointless as it sometimes may be....so I joined KMC for my fun which at that time didn't involve caring fopr company or being in a community to feel good (it still doesn't but there are some people here I vry much enjoy talking to)

It was not...in no way....It was the most reasonable thing to think....why should beating be ok just cause she needs it to raise her kids...others don't......I don't say its worse or better to beat your kids...but if they need beating it is either cause the parent can't deal with it differen or the kid needs them once in a while...some kids are like that......I didn't mean to say that her kids are psychos...and I didn't...youi all just took it wrong...I don't blame you for it though.



Bardock and me...I am pretty sure .... but yes it is.....

First of all... Who the f*ck ever said BEAT? I was pointing out that spankings are sometimes necessary.. Trust me its not like i have human services at my door because my kids are black & blue from me wailing on them... And I'll thank you to keep your opinions on this issue as general statememnts and not singling me out simply because I had teh guts to stand up and tell the truth about parenting.. you dont like it? fine... make all th ecomments you want but dont you dare insinuate that my kids are in any way deserving of harsh discipline (because thats NOT what i said at all) or pretend to know what type of parent I am or am not.. I dont know you from Adam & vice versa so you have no basis in singling ME out other than to pick a fight.. whcih is immature and inflammatory.. These threads are supposed to be for debate (you know civilized disagreements played out in well thought out responses) not ARGUMENTS as you said you so much enjoy... if thats what you like then great.. go ARGUE somewhere to someone in RL rather than hide behind your computer screen from the ass kicking you most certainly would recieve for insulting people in RL like you do here...

Personally I am against spanking, I'm agaisnt hitting kids in general.

My parents never did it to me and I think I turned out pretty ok.

I wouldn't classify it under any kind of abuse tho

Well then substitute Beat with Spank.....

I just dot know what to answer....you and Syremn will just take my words and twist them....but I have to anyways....

I did not single you out,...I did not say that your Children deserve a higher amount of spanking, I didn't pretend to know what kind of parent you are, I don't know you, I didn't single you out....(yes I know I started with the same as I finished......)

Now to clarify things...I said that if you take No Spanking as standard (which I don*t do I believe a beating once in a while can strenghthen the character) then if beating has to be used it is either because of the Rebeelious Kids or the Nature of the Parent......it is just true....people are different some kids need spanking...some parents spank easier than others......
Great you found the next misuse of a word I don't know the difference between an arguement and a debate...I like to talk to people voice my opinion ridicule theirs...it just like it...I do it in School, I do it with my friends (no I son't DO it with my friends) I do it with my Classmates, and I do it on here.....cause its a good community, good posts different opinions...I like KMC.......but since I don't really like people that much and don't have that many occasions in RL to argue I do it here too.....nothing wrong with that....

And I didn*t insult you...and come her and I say it to your face again.....I am not afraid of ass kicking...if I deserve it then so be it....but I don*t really in this case....you are just to emotional.....maybe you are overprotective towards yopur children (ok sorry...that was mean....but I had to type it fpr my own amusement)

Originally posted by Bardock42
maybe you are overprotective towards yopur children (ok sorry...that was mean....but I had to type it fpr my own amusement)

thats EXACTLY what it is,, and in case noone clued you in yet.. ITS WHAT A GOOD PARENT DOES

Originally posted by bilb
thats EXACTLY what it is,, and in case noone clued you in yet.. ITS WHAT A GOOD PARENT DOES

Well the word "over" in this case at least for me implies that it is too much...but you are right better too protective than not enough.....the right amount would be the best of course......

But, you nstill feel insulted?

I agree with Bardock there is such a thing as being overprotective.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well the word "over" in this case at least for me implies that it is too much...but you are right better to protective than not enough.....the right amount would be the best of course......

But, you nstill feel insulted?

yes this is insulting:

Originally posted by bilb
yes this is insulting:

Well then.....I won*t apologize...since its not.....its just hypothetical.....but anyways

ahh so rather than being overprotective of MY children I should let any jerk with an opinion say what they want about them and me keep my mouth shut? i dont think so

Originally posted by bilb
ahh so rather than being overprotective of MY children I should let any jerk with an opinion say what they want about them and me keep my mouth shut? i dont think so


ARGH..she's twisting again....no I said that its better to be overprotective just three posts back......I am just saying the right amount would maybe even be better......

Originally posted by Bardock42
ARGH..she's twisting again....no I said that its better to be overprotective just three posts back......I am just saying the right amount would maybe even be better......

well then tell me oh wise seer of child rearing... what IS the proper amount?

Originally posted by bilb
ahh so rather than being overprotective of MY children I should let any jerk with an opinion say what they want about them and me keep my mouth shut? i dont think so

Depends on what you call being overprotective.

You should always defend your children in a situation like that.

I was thinking of other types of situations

Originally posted by Fire
Depends on what you call being overprotective.

You should always defend your children in a situation like that.

I was thinking of other types of situations

well then i agree with you... i dont believe in sheltering kids form society if thats what you mean, but I do believe in protecting my own children from insults from a debate that they had no part in perpetuating

Then We agree

Originally posted by bilb
well then tell me oh wise seer of child rearing... what IS the proper amount?

I didn't say that I know what the right amount is...just that there is a right amount....and that this amount is better than others....but if it comes to raising children better safe than sorry which basically means "Overprotective is better than to easy going"


And I did not insult your children....that's why its over the top....understandable but still....

Originally posted by Bardock42
I didn't say that I know what the right amount is...just that there is a right amount....and that this amount is better than others....but if it comes to raising children better safe than sorry which basically means "Overprotective is better than to easy going"


And I did not insult your children....that's why its over the top....understandable but still....

Well then might I suggest you refrain from making statements like 'there is a certain amount that is good' if you have no clue what that amount is?

Originally posted by bilb
Well then might I suggest you refrain from making statements like 'there is a certain amount that is good' if you have no clue what that amount is?

No.....I know there is a right amount...I don*t have to know the amount to know that it exists......

Think of it like that....there is a Guard at a gate and he will let you in for the right amount of money...you know that there is a right amount...but you don*t know what it is.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
No.....I know there is a right amount...I don*t have to know the amount to know that it exists......

Think of it like that....there is a Guard at a gate and he will let you in for the right amount of money...you know that there is a right amount...but you don*t know what it is.....

thast the dumbest thing i have heard in a while, if you dont know something it doesnt make you a bad person, all you have to do is say 'gee, i'm not in that situation so i dont know' end of story

Originally posted by bilb
thast the dumbest thing i have heard in a while, if you dont know something it doesnt make you a bad person, all you have to do is say 'gee, i'm not in that situation so i dont know' end of story

What the hell...I did....I said I don't know the right amount...its hard to find out....depends on the environment, the kid......but I still known that tere is this right amount...as do you....and you would admit it if you weren't so pissed of over some statement you took wrong....

Originally posted by Bardock42
What the hell...I did....I said I don't know the right amount...its hard to find out....depends on the environment, the kid......but I still known that tere is this right amount...as do you....and you would admit it if you weren't so pissed of over some statement you took wrong....

trust me babe.. if i were pissed you'd damn well know it...

Originally posted by bilb
trust me babe.. if i were pissed you'd damn well know it...

Trust me......you just talk and talk and deny and deny and blame and blame......and even if you are not Pissed off.....ok....still for some reason you deny a simple truth that there is a right amount for almost everything and that it's not necessary to know the value of that amount to know its existance...and can someone step in and state the obvious.....?

guys (no offence bilb) could you try keeping this ON TOPIC

Originally posted by Fire
guys (no offence bilb) could you try keeping this ON TOPIC

Sure.....although......it has somehow to do with the topic....

well in a very very very obscure way, seems more like a cat fight to me.

Originally posted by Fire
guys (no offence bilb) could you try keeping this ON TOPIC

eh i'm done

Originally posted by Fire
well in a very very very obscure way, seems more like a cat fight to me.

Why is after the cat no "(no offense to you Bardock)"?

But well its just a debate...I state my opinion she states how immature and stupid I am to what I respond with my opinion

I know but it should remain on topic, you can do this via PM

told ya. i'm done.. i am not wasting any more energy arguing semantics with anyone who has yet to actually live a life where things arent as easy as they seem in a textbook

Originally posted by bilb
told ya. i'm done.. i am not wasting any more energy arguing semantics with anyone who has yet to actually live a life where things arent as easy as they seem in a textbook


I knoiw I know...I can't let it go but still.....I never said that what you did is more wrong or more right...I am just stating what I believe to be the truth........

Well going back to the topic...I don't believe its really is necessary to slap kids around...If your kids respect you, they will listen to you....But first the parent must earn the child's respect for that to work....There are times, however, when very little children don't quite understand the issues that are at hand, and so a swat never hurt anyone.....

Example....I had a kid bit me...and after I repeatedly said stop with no attempt on his part to do so....I bit him back.....NOW...that he took notice of..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well going back to the topic...I don't believe its really is necessary to slap kids around...If your kids respect you, they will listen to you....But first the parent must earn the child's respect for that to work....There are times, however, when very little children don't quite understand the issues that are at hand, and so a swat never hurt anyone.....

Example....I had a kid bit me...and after I repeatedly said stop with no attempt on his part to do so....I bit him back.....NOW...that he took notice of..

my sister does teh same thing with her kid

i usually go through the whole spectrum of punishment BEFORE spanking.. saying no, talking about it, time out, taking away privileges etc.. BEFORE i spank them.. but if all else fails Spanking them WILL get their attention and let them know you mean what you say

Alright.. i've read this thread from start to finish...

Firstly, i believe that discipline is a neccessary evil...

Without it children learn nothing of boundaries and their sense of right and wrong can be severely impaired imo...

Beating imo is wrong, and i know that from firsthand experience...

Slapping imo when used purely for disciplinary purposes and not to take out your anger can be justified...

Children are not born well adjusted, they are not born knowing right from wrong...

Its our job to teach them that...

I don't have children, but i am the oldest of four kids and remember plenty about how they and i were brought up...

Discipline in alot of cases is neccessary imo... without it i think alot of kids would be total f*ck ups...

Originally posted by pr1983


Without it children learn nothing of boundaries and their sense of right and wrong can be severely impaired imo...

Beating imo is wrong, and i know that from firsthand experience...

Slapping imo when used purely for disciplinary purposes and not to take out your anger can be justified...


indeed.. pretty much says it all i think

Originally posted by bilb
my sister does teh same thing with her kid

i usually go through the whole spectrum of punishment BEFORE spanking.. saying no, talking about it, time out, taking away privileges etc.. BEFORE i spank them.. but if all else fails Spanking them WILL get their attention and let them know you mean what you say


....and you can tell a big difference in kids that have not been disciplined at all....Makes me want to slap the mother....

Also, I believe in never humiliating them....and never in public...It's only common respect.....you want your kids to respect you....then you must give them respect also....

Originally posted by bilb
BF do you have kids?? Cause before I had em I used to say the exact same thing. you know what I found out? Psychological studies dont mean shit on this issue.. I swore I would NEVER spank my kids,, was all high & mighty on the 'proper' type of discipline & the use of positive reinforcement.. thats all well & good but there are alot of times when spanking is the only thing that works.. my kids are not mentally unstable (cant believe I just typed that seeing as how much they drive ME insane ) and while I have my faults I am a good parent so such a cut & dry statement as "A good parent of a normal, mentally sound child should never have to resort to spanking, simple as that" is not only inaccurate its offensive...


There's an exception for every rule, and perhaps your an exception. I don't know you or your kids so I'm not going to make any judgements about you, your parenting or your kids.

However, what I said is still generally true. Spanking causes more harm then good.

And no I don't have kids, but when I do I won't spank them.

Originally posted by BackFire
There's an exception for every rule, and perhaps your an exception. I don't know you or your kids so I'm not going to make any judgements about you, your parenting or your kids.

However, what I said is still generally true. Spanking causes more harm then good.

And no I don't have kids, but when I do I won't spank them.

Fair enough.. thanks for the well worded reply

i think syren hit the nail on the head earlier...

when your younger you tell yourself you'll let your kids have freedom, they can go out and drink and smoke and whatnot... basically let them do what you weren't allowed to do...

then you get a bit of perspective and you think "hey, i want this kid to do well and go to college" so you do exactly the same thing your parents did...

slapping i think falls into this kind of mentality...

right once again