Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Now before you get all mad at me here me out, there was a thread like this in the LOTR forum where people voted which was better SW or LOTR so I thought we could pit the two against each other for some fun (all swords swapped in for Lightwords at front desk) Commentary for all the matches are provided 24/7. Here are the listings for todays matches.

Centre Court (arena 1, Mustafar lava balcony) Aragorn vs Obi-wan

Court 1 (arena 2, Mount Doom volcano) Anakin vs Legolas

Court 2 (arena 3,Utapah sinkhole river) Gimli vs Yoda

Court 3 ( arena 4, Helms Deep Keep) Mace Windu vs Boromir

Court 4 (arena 5,Generator core, Theed) Gandalf vs Sidious

Court 5 ( arena 6,Khazad dum bridge) Count Dooku vs Saruman

Oh by the way did i mention anyone can help in the commentry (please dont kill me for making this thread)

this probably would do better in the actual VS. forum

just a suggestion

dude the jedis would pwn the lotr people.....obi wan would prob beat aragorn. anakin can block all the arrows with his sword cuz hes skilled with a saber and he can block arrows. yoda can pwn gimli with his superspeed. duno bout windu and boromir. duno bout gandalf and siidous nd saruman vs dooku,

idiot....they are completly different movies.

isn't doku and sauramon the same actor?

yes, Dooku is better. The Jedi pwn them.

Gandalf and Saruman are more than 3,000 year old halfgods that can tear down mountains with their powers. They would destroy Sidious and Dooku.

In the rest of the fights the Jedi would win because they have the Force.

I summon forth LOTR, EU!

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Gandalf and Saruman are more than 3,000 year old halfgods that can tear down mountains with their powers. They would destroy Sidious and Dooku.

In the rest of the fights the Jedi would win because they have the Force.

Gandalf and Saruman alone will take down all those Jedi/Sith listed.

Unleash the stupidity...

First off I'm thinking they can't use force powers or SW wins

Centre Court (arena 1, Mustafar lava balcony) Aragorn vs Obi-wan= Aragorn- much more exp and is over 80

Court 1 (arena 2, Mount Doom volcano) Anakin vs Legolas= Anakin- Legolas sucks in melee combat

Court 2 (arena 3,Utapah sinkhole river) Gimli vs Yoda= Do I have to say who will win? Yoda but if it is without the force Gimli would

Court 3 ( arena 4, Helms Deep Keep) Mace Windu vs Boromir= Boromir- He's been fighting nonstopped against the forces of Mordor and is much more exp

Court 4 (arena 5,Generator core, Theed) Gandalf vs Sidious= Gandalf, his magic equals Sidious's plus he can blind him

Court 5 ( arena 6,Khazad dum bridge) Count Dooku vs Saruman= Count Dooku- Better swordsman and warrior all around.

Originally posted by Arbiter
First off I'm thinking they can't use force powers or SW wins

Centre Court (arena 1, Mustafar lava balcony) Aragorn vs Obi-wan= Aragorn- much more exp and is over 80

Court 1 (arena 2, Mount Doom volcano) Anakin vs Legolas= Anakin- Legolas sucks in melee combat

Court 2 (arena 3,Utapah sinkhole river) Gimli vs Yoda= Do I have to say who will win? Yoda but if it is without the force Gimli would

Court 3 ( arena 4, Helms Deep Keep) Mace Windu vs Boromir= Boromir- He's been fighting nonstopped against the forces of Mordor and is much more exp

Court 4 (arena 5,Generator core, Theed) Gandalf vs Sidious= Gandalf, his magic equals Sidious's plus he can blind him

Court 5 ( arena 6,Khazad dum bridge) Count Dooku vs Saruman= Count Dooku- Better swordsman and warrior all around.

Sad Arbiter. Just sad.

Sysph

No seriously, Arbiter...

Sysph

Don't take all the fun Janus, my friend.
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/8427/getoffmyinternet9bn.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/671/stopposting48cz.jpg

Sysph sounds like a lisp from all those sidejobs you've been doing to pay for your ISP.

Here, another pic from me to you...

Double pics... You bastard...

You are having people from another galaxy fight against people from Middle-Earth. Why not have today's army fight Ancient Greek's army? That sounds fair. Lightsaber cuts through anything. Swords are useless against lightsabers.

Originally posted by Arbiter
You are having people from another galaxy fight against people from Middle-Earth. Why not have today's army fight Ancient Greek's army? That sounds fair. Lightsaber cuts through anything. Swords are useless against lightsabers.

Go reread the first post, then light yourself on fire and jump out the window.

Won't that put out the flames?

I know lightsabers have been changed to swords but they still have the force which will overpower all of them...expect for maybe Sauruman and Gandalf but they will still lose.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Won't that put out the flames?

I didn't say jump out an OPEN window.

True.

Originally posted by Arbiter
I know lightsabers have been changed to swords but they still have the force which will overpower all of them...expect for maybe Sauruman and Gandalf but they will still lose.

Gandalf and Sarumon are lesser gods. Gandalf even spanked a Demon; they would just drop a mountain on everyone's sorry head.

Gandalf also got owned by the Witch-King.

Originally posted by Arbiter
Gandalf also got owned by the Witch-King.

Who would own practically anyone in the SW Universe. He's indestructable unless you happen to drop the One Ring into Mt Doom.

The Witch-King? Who was killed right after Rohan's forces arrived?

Originally posted by Arbiter
The Witch-King? Who was killed right after Rohan's forces arrived?

"No mortal man was able to kill him." He would destroy EVERY male character of the SW universe and the LotR universe.

For Gandalf and Saruman: They are still lesser gods who were wandering over Middle-Earth since it's creation and were in their known forms for more than 3,000 years. They both are able to cause huge amounts of destruction with their magic and as long as they don't face equal powers (each other, Sauron, Balrogs) they are pretty much not defeatable.

Stop or I'll report!

Very simple. STAR WARS wins.

The Witch-King didn't DIE because Rohan arrived, they DIED because the ring was thrown into the pit of fire. All they did was momentarily stall him. You CAN NOT KILL the Nazgul without destroying Sauron.

I don't know why this is hard for so many of you to understand, but it's CANON.

The Witch-King destroying Gandalf's staff just indicates he's very powerful, not that Gandalf, a Maia with immense power (a lesser god) was a weakling.

Saruman and Gandalf get their powers from their staffs! Take that away and they're magicless.

Uhhh no. Gandalf beat the crap out of a Balrog with his SWORD.

They ARE MAIA. Hear that? MAIA, LESSER GODS of ARDA.

You only see such petty limitations because they are emmissaries, they are not supposed to go around and kick whomever's ass they want. Just look at what happens to Sarumon because he deferred from the chosen path, he got his rank stripped away from the Valar.

Why do you think the Valar didn't come themselves and beat the crap out of Sauron? Because it's MIDDLE EARTH BUSINESS.

Neither the Valar, nor the Maia (like Gandalf) care to DO MIDDLE EARTH BUSINESS for the people of Middle Earth.

Gandalf without his staff as seen in ROTK couldn't defeat a Troll. Sidious's powers doesn't come from his staff and neither does the other Jedi/Sith. Star Wars wins!

You are a fool. Did you not just read Illustrios' posts?

Umm yeah. Gandalf uses a lighting attack from his sword but Dooku and Sidious can both deflect lighting with their hands.

Sauron is MIDDLE EARTH's problem. The Valar, the Maia don't give much of a damn about Middle Earth. They send a few Maia to be EMISSARIES, aka GUIDE the people of Middle Earth to beat Sauron (a pupil of Morgoth).

You saw Gandalf release some of his real power and he kicked the crap out of a DEMON. A Demon that would demolish anyone from the SW universe on this list.

You're wrong. Bottum line.

Gandalf and Saruman take this alone.

The demon is called Balrog! Second we saw how good Gandalf is at the Battle for Gondor and the Battle at the Black Gate. Where was his super powers then?

First off, I know what the demon is called.

Second off, I answered your question several times already in previous posts. If you can't READ, don't POST.

Arbiter, Illustrious is obviously better learned, better read, and just plain smarter then you. Don't make waves...

You need to be able to read to post or else you won't know what you are typing.
Second, It is clear that Gandalf was able to use lighting with the sky. The lighting came down, hit Gandalf's sword and then hit the Balrog. And if lighting killed the Balrog, Sidious would have shocked it too death. Gandalf was beaten by some pushes which the Jedis are masters of.

Anyone else get the idea that I'm preaching to the choir here?

You're impossible Arbiter, go read what I've already said, and go change your mind.

You keep saying Gandalf and Saruman are lesser gods which is bull$hit. You are saying just cause Gandalf killed the Balrog he is this super god. Let's look at some facts on Gandalf vs. Sidous
Gandalf= His power comes from his staff
Sidious= Power comes from the force
Gandalf= Killed the Balrog
Sidious= Master of the Force
Gandalf= Not that swift with a sword
Sidious= Master of the Lightsaber
Gandalf= Got beat up by the Witch-King but yet/As he towered over her, preparing to deliver the final blow, Merry rushed behind him and plunged his enchanted sword into the back of Witch-king's knee, breaking the spell that held the Morgul Lord's immortality. Eowyn took the opportunity to strike. As he fell to his knees, Eowyn rose. She then thrust her sword into the neck of the Witch-king, causing him to wither and pass away from this world.
Sidious= Defeated Yoda and killed 3 Jedi Masters
Gandalf= Went from Grey to White
Sidious= Took control of the entire galaxy
Gandalf= ...
Sidious= Was able to keep himself hidden from the Jedi
Gandalf= ...got beat up by Saruman
Sidious= Had the Jedi fall into his trap
Gandalf= ...rides a horse
Sidious= Force Lighting took Yoda to hold back and Mace was struggling
Gandalf= ...rode an Eagle to save Frodo
Sidious= Uses the field to his advantage
Gandalf= ...
Sidious= Beats gandalf

Originally posted by Arbiter
Gandalf without his staff as seen in ROTK couldn't defeat a Troll. Sidious's powers doesn't come from his staff and neither does the other Jedi/Sith. Star Wars wins!

He killed a Balrog only using his sword (between The fellowship and the two towers) in ROTK (if you watch the movie) he is bashing Orcs as if they were nothing and he even kills a Troll with a single strike of his sword (just when the forces of Mordor get through the cities main gate).

And for his powers (if you just want to refer to the movies):

a) He could use illusions (making the enviroment darker, making his voice sound deeper)
b) He could speak to animals
c) He destroyed a Balrog with his sword and his powers alone (notice that Balrogs are also lesser gods that did fall to the "evil side" back in the times of Morgoth)
d) He deflected arrows from Legolas and made Gimli and Aragorn drop their weapons by heating them up (all at the same time)
e) He blinded an entire army of Uruk-Hai
f) He took a frontal hit from a fireball Saruman threw at him and that did actualy nothing to him.
g) He frightened away ALL Nazgul at once just before the Battle of Minas Tirith with a single spell.

Yet...he was nowhere even near to use his entire power (with the fight against the Balrog as an exception maybe). He said that if he would fall under the command of the ring he would become even WORSE than Sauron himself.

So...just to point that out: A Jedi or Sith trying to kill Gandalf or Saruman will get disarmed within seconds and then face the power of a god (!) that can cast down entire mountains (!) with a single spell. They would literally get OWNED.

Nai, don't try it. This guy obviously hasn't read the books.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Nai, don't try it. This guy obviously hasn't read the books.

Oh come on. You can figure out that Gandalf / Saruman would destroy Jedi or Sith like nothing by just watching the movies.

I read the books and although Tolken is a superb writer...I swear his books always helped me go to sleep at night.

Tolkien books are good, but old school good.

But yeah, SW versu LOTR... SW is pwned.

Unless you bring in NJO LUKE LOLL!!!@! HE PWN3DS!@!

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Unless you bring in NJO LUKE LOLL!!!@! HE PWN3DS!@!

LOL!!!111!!1!

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Unless you bring in NJO LUKE LOLL!!!@! HE PWN3DS!@!

OMG NOT NJO LUKE!!!111one!!!11 Run for the Hills!!!

NO LUKE"KK LL RIP APARTYTHE HILLS OMG WITH A GREEN SPARKS STPORM AND OMG GASNBSALF ANF THE OTHER PROPLE IN THAST BOOK I"M TOO STUPID TO READ"KLL LOSE TO LUKE OMG HE COULD OWN ALLLLL!!@#@!$

zOMG!!!!@!! LUKE IS OOBER GOD HE KILLZ ALL YO HE BE SLAYIN WIT DA SABER LIK TOTLY CIDEUS AND LUKE AND ANNYKIN RULE zOMG Zomg!!! LOL SYSPH!!!!@@!

lol.
"Mommy can we get some Asswipe ass spray, it supposedly freshens the room."

"Sure honey, lets try it"

SYSPH!!!!!#@#$@#$@ LOLLOLLO!@$# SYSPH< SYSPHSYSPH I KLNOW WHATR IT MEANS YOU DON:"T LOLLOL< LUKE OWNS< PWN#D ALL

Okay I'm done with that. . .

lmao

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
lmao

Seriously, the hell does SYSPH mean? Is that a noob term? Because if it is, I don't want to know.

Shut your shit phuck up? I have no clue either...

**** it, who cares.

I think it's shut your stinking pie hole, or something of that nature. Too lazy to go look at it on Urbandictionary.

It's something stupid as ever.

But here is the old l33t mode of the Fellowship of the Ring:



Merry: "Omg, I pwn"
Pippin: "Sif, I pwn"
**Rocket goes off
Gandalf: "Pwned!"

Bilbo: "This = shiz, bai foos"
Bilbo has left the server
Frodo: "***!?"


Gandalf: "Give teh ringz0r to Frodo"
Bilbo: "Sif! It r precious!"
Gandalf: "STFU NOOB!!!"
Bilbo: "ok"
Gandalf has logged on as admin
Bilbo has been kicked from The Shire

**Later
Gandalf: "Show me teh ring, foo!"
**Gandalf rides out, does some research, comes back
Gandalf: "OMGZ, it R teh ring!"
Frodo: "***?"
Gandalf has logged on as admin
Frodo has been kicked from The Shire
Sam has been kicked from The Shire


Gandalf: "sup dawg, i r g4nd4lf da gr3y!"
Saruman: "Foo! U R teh noob!"
Gandalf: "***?!"
Saruman: "Sauron pwns joo!"
Gandalf: "Sif, I R leet"
**Sarumon beats the **** out of Gandalf
Saruman: "Pwned!"


Merry: "look foos, shrooms!"
Pippin: "Woot! Shrooms!"
Frodo: "Ph34r!"
Sam: "Shrooms!"
Frodo: "PH34R!1!1"
**black rider stops, sniffs, goes past
Frodo: "OMG, packetloss!"


**Frodo is drinking and dancing on a table, then slips
Frodo has left the server
Frodo has connected to the server
Frodo: "OMGz, dc'd"
Aragorn: "OMG, noobz"


Merry: "Mmm, shrooms!"
**MERRY IS BROADCASTING HIS IP ADDRESS!!!
Frodo: "Foos! Ph34r teh haxorz"

**the black riders attack
Merry: "OMG!!!"
Sam: "O.M.G!!!11"
Pippin: "***"
Frodo has left the server
**head nazgul stabs Frodo's ghost
Frodo has connected to the server
Frodo: "***... hax!"
**Aragorn lraps into the fray with a flaming brand
Aragorn: "PH34r!!!!!!"
Merry: "LOLOL flamed! "


Aragorn: "ZOMG!Arwen!"
**Arwen rides up
Aragorn: "A/S/L? Wanna net secks?"
Arwen: "Sif! *** is up with Frodo?"
Sam: "teh leet Hax0r "
Arwen: "Firewall?"

**Arwen rides off with Frodo, the nazgul give chase. Arwen crosses the ford at Rivendell.
Arwen: "PH34R!! My dad pwns urs!"
**nazgul start to cross
Arwen: "LOLOLOLO noobs!!1!"
**the ford rises up and washes the nazgul away
Warning: Connection Problems Detected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
nazgul has disconnected
Arwen: "Pwnt"


Gimli: "dwarves pwn!"
Legolas: "Sif, Elves pwn!"
Boromir: "OLOLOL noobs, men pwn!"
Elrond: "STFU tards!!1!"
**Frodo puts the ring on the plinth
Gimili: "Sif ring pwns all!"
**Gimli swings his axe at it, which shatters
Elrond: "**sigh, noob"


Bilbo: "OLOL, me = 10th level thief!"
Frodo: "OMG, u r teh pwn!"
Bilbo: "Do u still have teh ringz0r?"
**Frodo shows Bilbo the One Ring
Bilbo: "OMG u tard, I want to TK you!"
Frodo: "sif!"
Bilbo: "ph34r my mithril"


**Gandalf leads the fellowship through the mountains
Legolas: "ZOMG, leet gfx!"
Gimli: "I R dropping frames! FFS"
**There's an avalanche which threatens to knock them off the shelf
Gimli: "Gandalf, teh draw distance is too far!1!!1"
Gandalf: "**Sigh. Moria?"
Gimli votes to change map to Moria
Votes 4 of 4 required
Legolas: "lolol Gimli, time to upgrade!"


Gandalf: "FFS, its too hard! Anyone got a walkthrough?"
**The gates of Mordor open, but the Guardian attacks!
Frodo: "OMG! ph34r!"
Boromir: "GL HF"
Aragorn guardian
Legolas guardian
Gandalf: "gg"


Gimli: "OMG!!!! PWNED!"

**After travelling some time in the dark the Fellowship come to a chamber with a large well
Gandalf: "teh bookz0r has some clues!"
**Merry knocks a skeleton in armour down the well
Gandalf: "OMG! noob!"
Merry: "d'oh"
**The fellowship hears the ork drums
Boromir: "***?"
Aragorn: "***?"
Frodo: "..."
Gandalf: "Oh ffs >.<"
**the fellowhip shores up the doors as the orks come
Boromir: "TEAMS FFS!"
Aragorn ork
Gimli ork
Legolas ork
Aragorn ork
Aragorn ork
Boromir ork
Gimli ork
Gimli ork
ork: "OMG! h4x!"
Gimli: "pwned"!
Legolas ork
Legolas ork
Legolas: "lol!!"
Boromir ork
Gimli ork
Gimli: "Foos!"
Legolas ork
ork: "ffs, wallhax!"
**The cavetroll enters the chambers destroying the doors
Gandalf: "Oh ffs!"
Boromir: "Omg, its teh boss!"
Aragorn: "Sif noob, we're not at teh end yet!"
**Cavetroll slams Boromir and Aragorn out of the way, and then skewers Frodo
Sam: "OMG!"
Gandalf: "OMG!"
Aragorn: "omg, pwn!"
**Legolas jumps on the cavetroll and shoots arrows down into its head
Legolas cavetroll
Ork: "OMG! PWNED!"
Gimli: "LOLOOLOL! noobs"
**The fellowship then runs through Moria, chased the whole way by a horde of orks
Boromir: "FFS! Teams, foos!"
**A flaming shadow starts to follow them, and the orks withdraw
Aragorn: "Now THIS is teh boss!"
Gandalf: "OMG!"
**The fellowship take to long flights of stairs that are starting to crumble and fall. Orks shoot at them with arrows.
Legolas: "LOL, noobs. Chex0r this out!1!"
Legolas ork
Legolas ork
ork: "AIMBOT!"
ork: "turn it off!"
Legolas: "lolol!"
**The fellowship crosses a bridge, Gandalf stops to confront the balrog
Gandalf: "joo shall not pass!"
Balrog: "***?"
Gandalf: "JOO SHALL NOT PASS!"
Balrog: "Sif, noob"
**Gandalf strikes the bridge with his staff, cracking it and causing it to break under the Balrog's weight
Balrog: "ZOMG! PWNED!"
Frodo: "OMG! Gandalf!"
**The Balrog falls and in a last act of defiance strikes out with its whip, entangling Gandalf
Gandalf: "D'oh"
Frodo: "OMG, joo foo!"
Gandalf: "fly u foos, fly!"
**Gandalf lets go and follows the Balrog into the crevass
Gandalf has left the server
Balrog has disconnected


**The fellowship rests, and in the night Frodo speaks with Galadriel
Galadriel: "For a noob, u r teh leet!"
Frodo: "Sif. I don't want teh ringz0r. Do u want teh ringz0r?"
Galadriel: "******! SIF I want teh ringz0r. I have enough h4x of my own!1"


Saurman: "ph34r my army of uruk hai! Go outz0r, find teh hobbitz and pwnz0r them!"
uruk hai: "leet!"


**Frodo goes off looking for firewood, Boromir follows and confronts him
Boromir: "Gimmie teh ringz0r so ** hax can fight teh boss!"
Frodo: "Sif, foo. Punkbuster will pwn joo!"
Boromir: "Naw, we play on non-pb servers"
Frodo: "STFU noob"
Frodo has left the server
Boromir: "***! FRODO! Bring teh ringz0r back, faghat!"

**A group of Uruk Hai encounter Boromir
Boromir: "OH FFS, TEAMS!!"
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Uruk Hai Boromir
Boromir: "****ing campers"
**Aragorn comes across the battle
Aragorn: "Boromir joo noob! ***!"
Uruk Hai: "Hah, pwn!"
Aragorn Uruk Hai
Aragorn: "I bring joo teh pwn!"
**Aragorn goes to Boromir
Boromir: "Damn lag!"
Warning: Connection problems detected
Boromir has disconnected
Aragorn: "FFS!"


Sam: "Frodo! ***! Invisibility h4x!"
Frodo has connected to the server
Frodo: "Sam, STFU and FOAD!"
Sam: "Sif!"
Frodo: "Oh, ffs n00b!"

3Nd!!!!11

LOL!!! ROFL!!! LMAO!!!! LUKE PWN3S!!!!!!#@#!~!

LMFAO!

So there you have. LOTR is officially more l33t than SW. And thus, I have proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that this match is taken by those Middle Earth druggies.

NO NOT IF YOU PUT LUKE IN LOLOLOL!!@

How about this one?

Exar Kun vs. Tom Bombadil

Sure, Kun is badass but Tom is immortal

Originally posted by Will-one Kenobi
Now before you get all mad at me here me out, there was a thread like this in the LOTR forum where people voted which was better SW or LOTR so I thought we could pit the two against each other for some fun (all swords swapped in for Lightwords at front desk) Commentary for all the matches are provided 24/7. Here are the listings for todays matches.

Centre Court (arena 1, Mustafar lava balcony) Aragorn vs Obi-wan

Court 1 (arena 2, Mount Doom volcano) Anakin vs Legolas

Court 2 (arena 3,Utapah sinkhole river) Gimli vs Yoda

Court 3 ( arena 4, Helms Deep Keep) Mace Windu vs Boromir

Court 4 (arena 5,Generator core, Theed) Gandalf vs Sidious

Court 5 ( arena 6,Khazad dum bridge) Count Dooku vs Saruman

1) Obi-wan
2) Anakin
3) Yoda
...get where i'm going here
6) Both...they are the same person for christs sake

There seems to be a lot of Necro activity around these parts.

Originally posted by THEJEDIMASTER
obi wan would prob beat aragorn.

Probably? Are you kidding? These are Jedi we're talking about; highly trained, force sensitive, badasses. Obi-Wan would mop the floor w/ Aragorn. This is no contest at all.



Windu would slaughter Boromir in less than 5 seconds. I mean, c'mon man, Mace is one of the greatest duelist in the history of the Star Wars universe.

Please don't get me wrong, I love LotR. But I'm not going to dispose of my sense of logic simply because I like something and think it's uber.

Huh, it seems the rumour's of Illustrius' greatness were exaggerated. Lol at noob Faunus btw

This is a WTF pwn. The Jedi/Sith have the FORCE, which grants them supernatural powers. The only ones that MIGHT win are Gandalf and Saruman.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
This is a WTF pwn. The Jedi/Sith have the FORCE, which grants them supernatural powers. The only ones that MIGHT win are Gandalf and Saruman.

True dat... true dat.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
This is a WTF pwn. The Jedi/Sith have the FORCE, which grants them supernatural powers. The only ones that MIGHT win are Gandalf and Saruman.
NO! Gandalf ans Saruman will win. The jedi/sith win the rest. Oh Tom rapes Kun up and down Middle Earth.

Originally posted by ares834
NO! Gandalf ans Saruman will win. The jedi/sith win the rest. Oh Tom rapes Kun up and down Middle Earth.

Uh... no, I think not.

Well keep it to yourself, lest Gandy decides to drop a mountain on yo ass!!!

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Uh... no, I think not.
Yes he can. Gandalf/Sauruman are the type of Wizards that shatter mountains. They curbstomp the jedi/sith.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes he can. Gandalf/Sauruman are the type of Wizards that shatter mountains. They curbstomp the jedi/sith.
Too bad Bane wasn't her he'd just drop a moon on their respective ass's.

When did either of them shatter mountains?

He said 'type of wizard to shatter mountains'. Still, Gandalf has some kickass feats: he matched Sauron in sheer innate power, WTFPWND Saruman, killed the Balrog (which is kind of a big deal if we look at the previous good guy/balrog confrontations), dealt with the Nazgul/Fellbeasts, can light magic fire (the Hobbit) and is essentially an angel. I didn't even mention Saruman's fireball...

The best i seen them do is throw each other around telekenetically, using sticks. But then again, i haven't read any of the books.

A question - couldn't magic be considered a version of the Force?

But, here is a point that nobody has raised - not one LOTR character is familar with lightsaber forms or martial arts. I can't picture Aragorn defending himself from Juyo, Vaapad or Makashi. Obi-Wan's Soresu would deflect any attack one of those characters made. Anakin's Djem So - well sorry to say he would win everytime. I don't even want to think about Aragorn fighting Darth Maul. Maul would cut him down within seconds. Also, LOTR swords are not laced with cortosis to prevent the blade from being sawed in pieces. LOTR characters are not gifted with Force enhanced jumps and during a fight a convient telekenetic attack and the fight is over.

As too the Force vs Magic - better fight. Sidious vs Ghandalf, that would be a brutal battle. Ghandalf got tossed around by Saruman so I would hate to see him get nailed FL. Sure he bested the Balrog, but the Sith are masters of illusion (see Darth Caedus) and Sidious was by far the most powerful Sith in history. I'm not saying he wouldn't take any damage, but he would emerge the victor. Does Ghandalf have the ability to deflect Force or magic attacks? I have yet to see evidence. Yoda and Galen Marek were able to hold off a FL attack for a brief time.

So there's my opinion.

Stop spelling Gandalf with an "h".

And the only thing from LoTR that's displayed the ability to stop Force-user would be Eru.

Did Palpatine not create a wormhole or something? That must trumph moving a mountain.

Gandalf never moved a mountain. And he's nowhere near Sauron in power. If anything he's among the weakest magic users in media history.

Thought he should NOT have been defeated by the Witch-king. As cool as that scene was, never happened.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gandalf never moved a mountain. And he's nowhere near Sauron in power. If anything he's among the weakest magic users in media history.

What about Harry Potter in the beginning of the first book?

Every LOTR combatant ON THAT LIST loses except maybe Gandalf and Sauruman due to the force.

Without the force, then that might be a better fight. Without the force (assuming that the SW characters are given time to get used to not using the force AND using swords):

Obi Wan (Soresu ftw)
Legolas (arrow to the face, without the force to help Anakin can't block an arrow/lacks the reflexes)
Yoda (way faster and more skilled w/hundreds of years of experience)
Mace (way more skilled)
Gandalf (magic!)
Sauruman (magic!)

Harry Potter magic > LOTR's magic

and why the hell wouldn't Ani have the force, nothing in op about that.

He never moved a mountain. He did, however, match Sauron in pure power:

Gandalf is uber.

Never mind, delete.

I still can't get past the fact that some people are forgetting the fact that Jedi have VASTLY, and I mean VAAAAAAAAASTLY superior reflexes and speed, among other combat oriented advantages augmented or empowered by the force. No one, and I mean NO ONE in the LotR universe displays anything in combat that puts them anywhere in the same galaxy as an accomplished Jedi, especially one approaching the caliber of those mentioned in the opening post. And Gandalf would absolutely get wtfpwned/raped/destroyed (pick one) by Sidious. Gandalf hasn't done shit at all to make me think he's even remotely close to Sidious. Oh, please correct me if you think I'm wrong. Just, try and use logical reasoning when discussing these battles.

What a LotR supporter would have to counter is that swords are not lightsaber proof!

I rest my case.

Which is why Saruman and Gandalf are the only LOTR characters that win. They can conjure bolts of lightning at will and can easily destroy the jedi/sith. Also ME magic>HP magic.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is why Saruman and Gandalf are the only LOTR characters that win. They can conjure bolts of lightning at will and can easily destroy the jedi/sith. Also ME magic>HP magic.

WTF??? And Sidious Can't? Ever hear of force lightning? Ever hear of a force storm? Of course you have.

False. (Unless you mean in concept/execution, in which case I strongly agree.)


False. (Or is it There and Back Again Gandalf?)


I dunno about that.



I remain dubious.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is why Saruman and Gandalf are the only LOTR characters that win. They can conjure bolts of lightning at will and can easily destroy the jedi/sith. Also ME magic>HP magic.

Meh, I'd throw the Witch King, Sauron and Melkor in there too. (there are probably a few others that im not familiar with)

FINGOLFIN!

throw legolas in with anakin...they can cry together...

as for a worthy challege for the SW lot, put them in an arena with the balrog and let hell loose

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
What a LotR supporter would have to counter is that swords are not lightsaber proof!

I rest my case.

Did you read the OP? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but they all get lighsabers (or was it that they all get swords...either way it's fair).

With force, SW pwn except for maybe Gandalf/Sauruman.

Without force, some go to SW and others go to LOTR.

Even with Gandalf/Saruman, LOTR does lose. Galen Marek destroyed a skyhook and redirected a Star Destroyer. We all know how powerful Galen was, but Gandalf or Saruman fighting Sidious? Even without his lightsaber, Sidious still would emerge victorious. How would either Gandalf or Saruman react to being Force choked? No amount of magic can break that telekenetic hold. As to Sidious's Force lightning - neither wizard has the ability to hold back that type of attack like Yoda did much less survive. A Force push might even break their back.

no.



Um... by hitting Sidious back? Both have shown proficiency in TK and Gandalf is much more versatile: 'I once knew every spell in every tongue under the sun' (or some such). Saruman more so: he was their loremaster. He was the guy that the people with all the answers went to when they didn't know the answers. Istari win.


That's always the answer: istari win.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Even with Gandalf/Saruman, LOTR does lose. Galen Marek destroyed a skyhook and redirected a Star Destroyer. We all know how powerful Galen was, but Gandalf or Saruman fighting Sidious? Even without his lightsaber, Sidious still would emerge victorious. How would either Gandalf or Saruman react to being Force choked? No amount of magic can break that telekenetic hold. As to Sidious's Force lightning - neither wizard has the ability to hold back that type of attack like Yoda did much less survive. A Force push might even break their back.

Agreed!

Disagreed!

Gandalf beat a weakened and bodiless Sauron with the help of the council of the white (Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond and others). So at best he has around a fifth of a cripple Saurons power, this does not however translate into combat power. Sidious was able to completely outclass 'Stardestroyer' Marek and if your talking about techniques knows them all. Considering the best combat feat Gandalf has if setting a few pine-cones on fire I'm sticking with Sidious.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Disagreed!

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Care to explain why?

Gandalf will be able to win if:

It's just dueling to force/magic
No force
This is Gandalf in his agelic form

With the force however, Sidious PROBABLY would win.

Did I miss something? The direct clash of strength happened after his return from the Balrog while he was alone. The Necromancer incident was an entirely different person (g. the Grey).


I have absolutely no idea how you would even begin to quantify that.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Gandalf will be able to win if:

It's just dueling to force/magic
No force
This is Gandalf in his agelic form

With the force however, Sidious PROBABLY would win.

WTF?
Let me make this clear: Gandalf is simply an "angelic" being, that just has chosen to incarnate into a human form to visit Middle Earth (or was commanded to do so by the Gods in the LotR realm). Gandalf almost never shows his power - in fact he uses them as a last resort only (even if it comes to lighting a fire).

This changes once he becomes Gandalf the White. He still isn't allowed to interfere in the affairs of Middle Earth directly with all his might (this is what the Gods punished Saruman for, enabling Gandalf to take the power of the former leader of the Ishtari away). But just think of the demonstrations of his power:

When revealing himself to Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas as Gandalf the White (TTT) he disarms Aragorn (by heating his sword up), deflects an arrow from Legolas into the sky and stuns Gimli so that the dwarf isn't able to move - this all simultaneously. He blinds an entire army of Orcs in front of Helm's Deep (TTT) and by the time of RotK he has become invulnerable to any weapon and even magic attacks.

If Saruman shares that kind of powers in his top shape, I don't see how any force user would be able to win against them. They simply can't be harmed and are pretty well able to cause a lot of harm themselves.

Originally posted by Borbarad
WTF?
Let me make this clear: Gandalf is simply an "angelic" being, that just has chosen to incarnate into a human form to visit Middle Earth (or was commanded to do so by the Gods in the LotR realm). Gandalf almost never shows his power - in fact he uses them as a last resort only (even if it comes to lighting a fire).

This changes once he becomes Gandalf the White. He still isn't allowed to interfere in the affairs of Middle Earth directly with all his might (this is what the Gods punished Saruman for, enabling Gandalf to take the power of the former leader of the Ishtari away). But just think of the demonstrations of his power:

When revealing himself to Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas as Gandalf the White (TTT) he disarms Aragorn (by heating his sword up), deflects an arrow from Legolas into the sky and stuns Gimli so that the dwarf isn't able to move - this all simultaneously. He blinds an entire army of Orcs in front of Helm's Deep (TTT) and by the time of RotK he has become invulnerable to any weapon and even magic attacks.

If Saruman shares that kind of powers in his top shape, I don't see how any force user would be able to win against them. They simply can't be harmed and are pretty well able to cause a lot of harm themselves.

WTF??? Blinding an entire army? INVULNERABLE to any weapon/magic? Where does it say that??? If so, then why doesn't he himself just walk up to the dark tower and personally destroy Sauron? He's invulnerable!

When the Miar/Valar interfere directly against Sauron/Morgoth the land itself is cast down. They have collateral damage. Hence the limitation: none of the Istari are allowed to combat Sauron directly nor can they combat him through open military conquest- they must encourage the natives of ME to fight, help them fight, enable them to fight. They cannot rule directly over them (hence Saruman's fall) because that just makes another Sauron.

Sidious disintergrated a lightsaber.



Sidious deflects lazer's.



Sidious stunned Galen Marek



That was the sun. And they weren't blind.



A lie.

Not to mention Sidious also nearly wiped out the entire new republic fleet with a force storm, and drained the life force of millions.

Im not too familiar with LOTR, so i really can't say too much. I never heard of any character from LOTR doing anything near that.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
WTF??? Blinding an entire army? INVULNERABLE to any weapon/magic? Where does it say that??? If so, then why doesn't he himself just walk up to the dark tower and personally destroy Sauron? He's invulnerable!

You should really go and check the books (LotR trilogy + Simarillion). The last time they sent Maiar into battle, they ravaged a nice part of the world (literally setting it aflame) in order to capture Melkor/Morgoth - who was powerful enough to drain oceans, knocks mountains down and corrupt everything that was created.

And Gandalf, as Red Nemesis has pointed out, isn't allowed to interfere too much with the realm of ME. Saruman is punished for doing that. If you read the books, you will see that Gandalf doesn't even use his abilities when it comes to light a fire (only as last resort), because of his (self-)restrictions. So walking right into Mordor to kill Sauron is something that he wouldn't do. And, technically, he wouldn't be able to do the job because to kill Sauron, you would need to throw the ring into Mt. Doom.

Originally posted by Borbarad
You should really go and check the books (LotR trilogy + Simarillion). The last time they sent Maiar into battle, they ravaged a nice part of the world (literally setting it aflame) in order to capture Melkor/Morgoth - who was powerful enough to drain oceans, knocks mountains down and corrupt everything that was created.

And Gandalf, as Red Nemesis has pointed out, isn't allowed to interfere too much with the realm of ME. Saruman is punished for doing that. If you read the books, you will see that Gandalf doesn't even use his abilities when it comes to light a fire (only as last resort), because of his (self-)restrictions. So walking right into Mordor to kill Sauron is something that he wouldn't do. And, technically, he wouldn't be able to do the job because to kill Sauron, you would need to throw the ring into Mt. Doom.

So you really think that he's INVULNERABLE to everything? Or is that a joke? Because otherwise in the siege of Minias Tirith he could just stand in the gateway and nobody could get past him.

He's not invulnerable, it's not impossible to kill Gandalf. Just rather difficult. The Istari are still in mortal form, so like Sauron's was, even if their physical form is destroyed, their spirit remains.

In a direct no-hold bar contest, the powers of people like Sidious with his planet-ravaging ability, Nihillus' drain, and just the sheer magnitude of all these Force-powers will only be defeated by Middle Earth's God, Eru. Short of divine intervention on the highest of levels, even the Valar and Maiar can't unleash the destruction that Force-storm and Mega-Drain can.

Movie Legolas solos Mordor and then goes on to defeat all of SW.

Yeah, he's the secret trump card. Anything that even remotely resembles Orlando Bloom has automatic pirate-elf powers of God-mode.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So you really think that he's INVULNERABLE to everything? Or is that a joke? Because otherwise in the siege of Minias Tirith he could just stand in the gateway and nobody could get past him.

In the book, this is precisely what happens. The army of Mordor destroys the gates of Minas Tirith, the Witchking rides through the gate and Gandalf stands there and, basically, tells him to back off. The next thing that happens is Rohan entering the battle which, as we all know, leads to the death of the Witchking. That's the reason why I suggested to have a look into the books.

And please, Lucien. Morgoth (who is a Valar) has made a game out of "destroying Middle Earth" for several thousand years, by taking down anything the other gods created. He has been stated to have drained oceans, destroy continents and knocked over mountains - just for the fun of it. Some Maiar have taken down mountains, moved continents and so on by themselves.

You have to suggest that, throughout the entire story, Gandalf isn't allowed to use most of his due to the command of Manwe. As I said: When the fellowship is on the Cahadras, Gandalf - despite wearing the ring of fire and despite of his magical powers - watches the attempts of his friends to light a fire (because they are about to freeze to death). He just performs that easy task when anything else fails. The only time in which he might have used all of his power, was when being confronted with the Balrog - another being wielding power on his own level.

So, one might only ask what Gandalf could have done, if anything else had failed? Fortunately, we never found that out, but suggesting that he tells Frodo he would become worse than Sauron should he use the ring, we could conclude that Gandalf would be able to cause some nice amount of damage.

The force would kill all except for Saruman/Gandalf. We've established that, no?

Even without the force, LoTR loses because only force-sensitives can wield Lightsabers (yes, I know there are exceptions). Even the exceptions have trained years and still are nowhere near any force-sensitive wielder.

Lightsabers are very different from normal swords in the fact that the sword's only weight is in the handle. The LoTR guys would be cutting their own limbs off trying to block the attacks from the SW guys.

Originally posted by Anon E. Mous
Even without the force, LoTR loses because only force-sensitives can wield Lightsabers.

kinda contradicted yourself there aye...

Originally posted by Anon E. Mous
The force would kill all except for Saruman/Gandalf. We've established that, no?


Pretty much. Yes. Especially given that those others don't have much magical abilities they could use to defend themselves against force attacks.



Urm. Why would the LotR people attempt to use lightsabers?
I would suggest that the LotR people, for this fight, are equipped with their regular weapons, with the difference that those weapons would be able to deflect lightsaber attacks. Otherwise the LotR people would be disarmed when trying to defend themselves only once (lightsaber cutting through their weapon). Not that it would make much of a difference, considering that the force users are going to force rape the LotR people (Gandalf and Saruman excepted) anyway.

I wonder how the jedi would deal with the army of the dead though...

Originally posted by Will-one Kenobi
Now before you get all mad at me here me out, there was a thread like this in the LOTR forum where people voted which was better SW or LOTR so I thought we could pit the two against each other for some fun (all swords swapped in for Lightswords at front desk) Commentary for all the matches are provided 24/7.

This, the OP, is what I based it on.

An army of the dead would annihilate everyone except The Maiar (Gandalf, Saruman).

Originally posted by Borbarad
And please, Lucien. Morgoth (who is a Valar) has made a game out of "destroying Middle Earth" for several thousand years, by taking down anything the other gods created. He has been stated to have drained oceans, destroy continents and knocked over mountains - just for the fun of it. Some Maiar have taken down mountains, moved continents and so on by themselves.
I never suggested otherwise (though just out of my own curiosity I do ask you to refer to me specific pages of a text, it's been a few years since I perused Tolkien). What I suggested was that Morgoth's (the most powerful Valar) ability to drain oceans and create mountains from the earth would not be enough to combat the destructive scale an attack which could destroy the earth itself, along with an attack which will obliterate all life in an instant, and against the telekinetic powers that the likes of Bane, Marek, Luke, and Caedus have exhibited. And then the rest of those rapscallious ruffions of Force-itude.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I never suggested otherwise (though just out of my own curiosity I do ask you to refer to me specific pages of a text, it's been a few years since I perused Tolkien). What I suggested was that Morgoth's (the most powerful Valar) ability to drain oceans and create mountains from the earth would not be enough to combat the destructive scale an attack which could destroy the earth itself, along with an attack which will obliterate all life in an instant, and against the telekinetic powers that the likes of Bane, Marek, Luke, and Caedus have exhibited. And then the rest of those rapscallious ruffions of Force-itude.

Morgoth would easily beat most SW characters. Sauron? That's debatable.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I wonder how the jedi would deal with the army of the dead though...

The army of the dead isn't one of the combatants on the list (Aragorn can only summon them once AND HE HAS TO GO TO THAT CAVE TO GET THEM!!!) So what: is Obi Wan going to be like "oh OK I'll wait here for a few days while you go get your army"?

And if we're going to bring them in then let's bring in the Grand Army of the Republic. Then Middle Earth gets their armies.

GAR vs Middle Earth. I wonder who'll win...

It would be a slaughter. GAR wins, heck they even might win if Middle Earth had Morgoth.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I wonder how the jedi would deal with the army of the dead though... In the books the army of the dead can not even attack. Also they never appered at the siege of Minas Tirith. What they did was scare the corsairs of their boats where they drownded, and the grey company, Aragorn, Legalos, Gimli, Elrond's sons, and a small band of rangers, drove them to Minas Tirith and helped in the battle.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The army of the dead isn't one of the combatants on the list
Ask me if I care.....



You completely missed my point. (what a surprise) My point was how the army of the dead (movie version, thank you Ares for the info from the novel) would fair if they should attack the jedi order. I am curious (there probably isnt a real answer) as to how the force would work on them if at all.




You don't stop rambling, do you?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Ask me if I care.....


Do you care?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter

You completely missed my point. (what a surprise) My point was how the army of the dead (movie version, thank you Ares for the info from the novel) would fair if they should attack the jedi order. I am curious (there probably isnt a real answer) as to how the force would work on them if at all.


Originally posted by ares834
In the books the army of the dead can not even attack. Also they never appered at the siege of Minas Tirith. What they did was scare the corsairs of their boats where they drownded, and the grey company, Aragorn, Legalos, Gimli, Elrond's sons, and a small band of rangers, drove them to Minas Tirith and helped in the battle.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Do you care?
NO

Originally posted by ares834
In the books the army of the dead can not even attack. Also they never appered at the siege of Minas Tirith. What they did was scare the corsairs of their boats where they drownded, and the grey company, Aragorn, Legalos, Gimli, Elrond's sons, and a small band of rangers, drove them to Minas Tirith and helped in the battle.

Originally posted by Me
You completely missed my point. (what a surprise) My point was how the army of the dead (movie version, thank you Ares for the info from the novel) would fair if they should attack the jedi order. I am curious (there probably isnt a real answer) as to how the force would work on them if at all.

Can you read? My question is how would the Army of the Dead (from the movies since they apparently cant attack) fair if they were to face the entire PT jedi order. My question to everyone (except you) is how the jedi's force abilities work on them. We know that certain force abilites can effect spirits so if the jedi had knowledge of them coming it could be interesting if they could come up with a ritual such as the wall of light that imprisoned Kun's spirit and i believe it was the same attackt that rid Yavin of his presence.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Morgoth would easily beat most SW characters. Sauron? That's debatable. Care to explain?

Sauron's a bodiless eye with no feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sauron's a bodiless eye with no feats.

If he's bodiless...what exactly was he planning to do with the ring? wear it on his spire?

Actually, now i think about it, it probably would have allowed him to achieve physical form again...anyone actually know?

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
If he's bodiless...what exactly was he planning to do with the ring? wear it on his spire?

Actually, now i think about it, it probably would have allowed him to achieve physical form again...anyone actually know?

He wasn't bodiless. The "Eye" is just the interpretation of Peter Jackson for Sauron, following this description here:

"The Eye was rimmed with fire, but was itself glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing." (The Fellowship of the Ring II 7, The Mirror of Galadriel)

That is how Frodo percieves Sauron in the Mirror of Galadriel. However. Sauron clearly has a regular body within the book.

Gollom, who was personally tortured by Sauron says, about Sauron's fingers, that "he has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough." (The Two Towers IV 3, The Black Gate is Closed)

Other hints that Sauron already had assume a corporal form once again. When seeing the armies of Mordor preparing to lay siege on the city, the people of Minas Tirith said that:

"...if the Nameless One himself should come, not even he could enter here while we yet live." (The Return of the King V 4, The Siege of Gondor)

Two orcs, which should know how Sauron looks like, at the tower in which they imprisoned Frodo for a short time:
"And the prisoner is to be kept safe and intact ... until He sends or comes Himself." (The Two Towers IV 10, The Choices of Master Samwise)

And Denethor, when asked if Sauron commands the armies of Mordor that were marching against Gondor, he replied that:
"He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won." (The Return of the King V 4, The Siege of Gondor)

When standing in front of the black gate, Aragorn demands: "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him." (The Return of the King V 10, The Black Gate Opens)

And of course, we can also look at Tolkiens words on the issue:

"...the year 1000 of the Third Age, when the shadow of Sauron began first to grow again to new shape." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144, dated 1954)

And...

"Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 246, dated 1963)

So one might actually imagine him as he was seen in the intro of the first LotR movie before the Ring was cut from his hand.

Damn.

Well new, crippled Sauron is still featless.

Originally posted by Borbarad
He wasn't bodiless. The "Eye" is just the interpretation of Peter Jackson for Sauron, following this description here:

"The Eye was rimmed with fire, but was itself glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing." (The Fellowship of the Ring II 7, The Mirror of Galadriel)

That is how Frodo percieves Sauron in the Mirror of Galadriel. However. Sauron clearly has a regular body within the book.

Gollom, who was personally tortured by Sauron says, about Sauron's fingers, that "he has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough." (The Two Towers IV 3, The Black Gate is Closed)

Other hints that Sauron already had assume a corporal form once again. When seeing the armies of Mordor preparing to lay siege on the city, the people of Minas Tirith said that:

"...if the Nameless One himself should come, not even he could enter here while we yet live." (The Return of the King V 4, The Siege of Gondor)

Two orcs, which should know how Sauron looks like, at the tower in which they imprisoned Frodo for a short time:
"And the prisoner is to be kept safe and intact ... until He sends or comes Himself." (The Two Towers IV 10, The Choices of Master Samwise)

And Denethor, when asked if Sauron commands the armies of Mordor that were marching against Gondor, he replied that:
"He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won." (The Return of the King V 4, The Siege of Gondor)

When standing in front of the black gate, Aragorn demands: "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him." (The Return of the King V 10, The Black Gate Opens)

And of course, we can also look at Tolkiens words on the issue:

"...the year 1000 of the Third Age, when the shadow of Sauron began first to grow again to new shape." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144, dated 1954)

And...

"Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 246, dated 1963)

So one might actually imagine him as he was seen in the intro of the first LotR movie before the Ring was cut from his hand. I know of no passage in any work where Tolkien provides a detailed description of Sauron's appearance.

Really, all of those passages can be, if not disputed, at least held as only possibilities. The word of in-book characters who aren't privy to such knowledge can't be trusted fully, especially if they have a tendency to speak arbitrarily and are fans of poetic license.

That first quote by Tolkien doesn't make mention of Sauron growing a physical body, it too can be ascribed to Tolkien once again using his penchant for non-specific descriptions (examples of which can be found in the lack of details surrounding Tom Bombadil, or even the layout and geography of Arda), as "the shadow of Sauron" casts doubts and confusions on Tolkien's intentions.

And once again, I'm interested in a citation from Tolkien's work that makes mention to Gollum being personally tortured by Sauron. His use of the "four fingered hand" can be chalked up to the general knowledge that Isildur.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I know of no passage in any work where Tolkien provides a detailed description of Sauron's appearance.

Really, all of those passages can be, if not disputed, at least held as only possibilities. The word of in-book characters who aren't privy to such knowledge can't be trusted fully, especially if they have a tendency to speak arbitrarily and are fans of poetic license.

That first quote by Tolkien doesn't make mention of Sauron growing a physical body, it too can be ascribed to Tolkien once again using his penchant for non-specific descriptions (examples of which can be found in the lack of details surrounding Tom Bombadil, or even the layout and geography of Arda), as "the shadow of Sauron" casts doubts and confusions on Tolkien's intentions.

And once again, I'm interested in a citation from Tolkien's work that makes mention to Gollum being personally tortured by Sauron. His use of the "four fingered hand" can be chalked up to the general knowledge that Isildur.

There is no detailed discription of Sauron in the books themselves. However: The second quote of Tolkien I provided talks about the events that take place at the end of LotR, so they are, at most, coming closest to what Tolkien imagined when thinking about Sauron's appearance during the time of the story: And that is Sauron clearly having assumed a physical form once again - which is all that was asked.

How powerful he would be in the context of a versus fight (especially without his ring) is debateable. With his ring the way he is displayed in the opening sequence of the "Fellowship of the Ring" movie, seems to be rather accurate. Yet, still, he was clearly more powerful (in the sense of personal ability) before forging the One Ring.

Is the eye actually the disembodied spirit of sauron?

In the movies yes. But according to those Letters, the "Eye" seems to be a more corporeal avatar. It also seems to function as a simple symbol and synonym, as Aragorn once said Sauron prohibited Orcs from speaking his name.

It's debatable how powerful Sauron truly is.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis Everyone, please put him on ignore. You're giving him what he wants. Instead of thinking 'oh, another poster' think, 'oh, a creepy old man fapping off to outrage.' It makes ignoring/adding him to ignore so much easier.



yeah well this gets lame too..

Well first off, if the Jedi were not allowed to use there force powers then the characters of LOTR would not be able to use there magic rendering gandalf, sauran and the witch king useless and mortal

Again without the use if magical powers the one ring wouldn't exist, and the fact that all the light sabers have been replaced with regular swords... Yes there would be heavy casualties on both sides but more than likely Star Wars would arise the victor of this long invigorating battle

I don't know who this "Gandalf" is... but he sounds totally gay.

So this is where they dump the trash now?

If you guys are forgetting, Jedi have lightsaber's, which means that they could cut through anything including Anduril, you have to take this into account because any good star wars fan knows that lightsaber's cut through everything except another lightsaber and some highly advanced forcefield's in the SW Universe.

And Cortosis and Phrik and Mandalorian Iron and Yuuzhan Vong armor among others.


N00b.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And Cortosis and Phrik and Mandalorian Iron and Yuuzhan Vong armor among others.


N00b.
Lol, I knew about Cortosis but not Phrik, Mandalorian Iron, or Yuuzhan Vong armor Dx...