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desann from jedi outcast or tavion no septor but marka ragnos' training

Desann easily. Desann was much much much more stronger than her. Desann has always been a very powerful jedi/sith, Luke said that. He was even a match for Luke himself. Tavion isent really that special and shes soo much easier to beat in combat. And Ragnos says she is weak

Luke wanted to TURN Desann back. Not kill him.

And your gaming experience is equivalent to squat in this forum.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Luke wanted to TURN Desann back. Not kill him.

And your gaming experience is equivalent to squat in this forum.

By that same logic, Obi-Wan wanted to TURN Anakin back, not kill him.

That doesn't mean he didn't go balls against the walls. If turning back Desann means cutting off a few limbs and then talking later, Luke would have done that.

I never like these guys much anyways, I'm outta here.

Originally posted by Illustrious
By that same logic, Obi-Wan wanted to TURN Anakin back, not kill him.

That doesn't mean he didn't go balls against the walls. If turning back Desann means cutting off a few limbs and then talking later, Luke would have done that.

Luke probably wasn't trying. Granted, it's possible he was, by after whooping Vader with ease, and adding ten years of experience including defeating the Reborn Emperor and fighting Kun's spirit, Desann, who's not a Sith lord, wouldn't be much of a challenge. Especially considering that Kyle defeats him later. Luke believes more in redemption than probably anyone, thinking there's good in everyone, and he's always trying to turn people back to the light side.

Next, he also said he never felt Desann coming, so even with a full surprise, Desann couldn't beat Luke. Now, the actual part of the fight we saw is really bad, but Desann buries Luke in some rubble and then RUNS away. Luke knocks away the debris easily, not even breathing hard, and merely shakes his head.

As for the actual topic though, Desann here would own Tavion in probably every way.

This may or may not be an accurate comparison. What evidence other than "he was trying to turn him back" do you have that Luke was not trying. I've also stated the Obi-Wan was trying to turn Anakin back -- but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying!

It doesn't matter what you want, if you value your life and someone is swinging a lightsaber around, you're going to defend yourself with everything you got. And seeing how he gets buried under some rubble, he didn't do a great job. To say that he wasn't trying or trying to use this to ridicule Desann's abilities is being biased.



You of all people should be advocating that years of experience does not directly correlate into actual power. Revan was not as experienced as many of the old Sith, but you always argue that he's just as powerful. Yoda had 800 years of experience on him, but that didn't stop him from retreating from Sidious, who admittedly had less. Different people reacted differently. Desann is also a capable force and lightsaber wielder.

You saw Luke beat Vader, while Vader has far more experience on him. Any battle has a theoretically possibility to go either way.

In the same whim, you see Obi-Wan beating Maul after Maul was pushing him around the entire fight. There are MANY factors that contribute to a win, to simply belittle someone because he's not as "experienced" or not a "Sith Lord" is being silly.



That only indicates two things: Luke isn't so connected that he has precog, and that Desann isn't significantly better than Luke. Just because you don't see an opponent coming means that you take a sudden decrease in your lightsaber abilities and force powers. Luke was able to repel the first attacks by Desann and bring it back to more even ground.

Also, yes, Desann did bury him and RUN away, but admittedly it's not all that easy to bury Luke; and not to mention Desann does have a penchant for running away. He ran away from a FORCELESS Kyle for crying out loud.



Desann is stronger than Kyle, but if Ragnavion uses his/her Sith sword to good effect, she can take this. Ragnavion is extremely fast with the sword, and she has a knockback effect seeing as how it is actually corporeal. And then you have to take into affect her massive Mega Drain ability with her sword. if she can keep Desann at bay, Ragnavion can take this.

But ordinary Tavion in JK:A versus Desann? Desann should have it in the bag.

i think desann wuld win but you culd easily sovle this

npc spawn the npcs against each other in academy
desann is as fierce as he was in outcast

not bad match up, it has been awhile since tavion and her master

That doesn't work.

If you use NPC spawn, you can have Desann beat 2 Lukes. I think that's clear it's a bit imba.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Luke wanted to TURN Desann back. Not kill him.

And your gaming experience is equivalent to squat in this forum.
Where did you ever hear that Luke wanted to turn Desann back. Luke said himself, 'if you encounter Desann don't try to take him on alone.'

Originally posted by Illustrious
This may or may not be an accurate comparison. What evidence other than "he was trying to turn him back" do you have that Luke was not trying. I've also stated the Obi-Wan was trying to turn Anakin back -- but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying!

It doesn't matter what you want, if you value your life and someone is swinging a lightsaber around, you're going to defend yourself with everything you got. And seeing how he gets buried under some rubble, he didn't do a great job. To say that he wasn't trying or trying to use this to ridicule Desann's abilities is being biased.



You of all people should be advocating that years of experience does not directly correlate into actual power. Revan was not as experienced as many of the old Sith, but you always argue that he's just as powerful. Yoda had 800 years of experience on him, but that didn't stop him from retreating from Sidious, who admittedly had less. Different people reacted differently. Desann is also a capable force and lightsaber wielder.

You saw Luke beat Vader, while Vader has far more experience on him. Any battle has a theoretically possibility to go either way.

In the same whim, you see Obi-Wan beating Maul after Maul was pushing him around the entire fight. There are MANY factors that contribute to a win, to simply belittle someone because he's not as "experienced" or not a "Sith Lord" is being silly.



That only indicates two things: Luke isn't so connected that he has precog, and that Desann isn't significantly better than Luke. Just because you don't see an opponent coming means that you take a sudden decrease in your lightsaber abilities and force powers. Luke was able to repel the first attacks by Desann and bring it back to more even ground.

Also, yes, Desann did bury him and RUN away, but admittedly it's not all that easy to bury Luke; and not to mention Desann does have a penchant for running away. He ran away from a FORCELESS Kyle for crying out loud.



Desann is stronger than Kyle, but if Ragnavion uses his/her Sith sword to good effect, she can take this. Ragnavion is extremely fast with the sword, and she has a knockback effect seeing as how it is actually corporeal. And then you have to take into affect her massive Mega Drain ability with her sword. if she can keep Desann at bay, Ragnavion can take this.

But ordinary Tavion in JK:A versus Desann? Desann should have it in the bag.

Oh Luke was trying to stay alive, but I truly doubt he was trying to kill Desann. Just like Obi versus Anakin.

As for your say on experience, we don't know anything about the ancient Sith lord's experience. Most everyone assumes they fight every day all the time without stop yet I'm not sure why. Obviously there would be fights every now and then, but neither dark jedi or sith fight constantly in any other time. Revan killed hundreds of Mandalorians, many Echani, hundreds of Jedi, and hundreds of Dark Jedi/Sith apprentices. He defeated Darth Malak (who's about at Dooku's level or so) twice in a row BEFORE he regained tons of knowledge about Sith, Jedi, tactics, etc. He's fought on the losing side of 3 different factions and single handedly helped them to gain the upper hand. Plus he has battle pre-cog and is a tactical genius.

Back on topic though, I'm not trying to slam Desann, just show that he's most likely not more powerful than JO Luke. Desann is not powerful enough to be a Sith Lord, and Luke has defeated two already. It wasn't the experience part I was trying to get through, if he beat two Sith lords like he did and got more powerful since then, he would most likely beat Desann.

Now, obviously there are many many factors which determine the outcome of a fight. Location, intelligence, circumstances, luck, etc. But since we have no idea what these will be, we must simply base our opinion on who is more powerful and who would probably win more often than not. (Maul vs. TPM Obi for example)

Desann ran from Kyle only to get him to go to the valley of the Jedi. He clearly had Kyle at his mercy. He didn't have any other reason to run from Luke.

I don't see how you can say Desann is stronger than Kyle. Kyle beat him in a fight with no additional help, like Maul against Qui-Gon for instance. And the fight has no scepter, so I don't know if that would include the sword because it was part of the scepter or not. He also didn't specify if this was Ragnavion or not. If it is, then I think he/she would win.

Originally posted by Arbiter
Where did you ever hear that Luke wanted to turn Desann back. Luke said himself, 'if you encounter Desann don't try to take him on alone.'

You think that means he's willing to kill him? He's saying that Kyle would be in great danger if he tried to fignt him on his own. Jeez. And when Luke threw aside the rubble like nothing after the fight. he shook his head. Not to mention that's Luke's policy; "I sense the good in you father," and a hundred other exmples.

how can u just say my gaming is "equivalent to squat"

Jeez, Kam, stop acting like a five year-old. I didn't say your gaming, I saidyour gaming EXPERIENCE. You can't make debates and arguments based on how hard a character from one game is compared to another. Fact is, you can't even bring game stats into here and expect to have something along the lines of a debate. BY that logic, Star Forge Bastila is worse than a Rebornm because I was killed facing a triplet of Reborn and beat Bastila each time in two, three seconds flat.

Doesn't mean he wasn't going full tilt. He was trying to defend himself and still got rubble dropped on his silly head.



I'm not even going to make this a conversation on Revan, because you won't stop arguing that a penny is a dime.



What the hell kind of hat did you pull that from?

Where does it say Desann is not powerful enough to be a Sith Lord? The SITH is a CULT order, it's almost like a religion, there's no "Minimum Power Level to be a Sith". Desann was a rogue, he did his OWN THING, he wouldn't want to be tied down with generations of tradition. Why do you think he left the Jedi in the first place, became Dark, and used the Remnant Empire to create a whole legion of force users?



Oh, so all those other occassions when he made an appearance to Kyle, and then ran off don't mean anything, right?



Desann is STRONGER than Kyle, that doesn't mean Kyle isn't smart enough to beat him. Not to mention you have to factor in the LOCATION of the battle, like you said. I don't believe Desann intended to have the battle two feet from the Jedi Academy.

I mentioned Ragnavion because it says "Tavion with Ragnos training".

Ragnos never TRAINED Tavion, so I'm assuming he means Ragnavion.

Also, Ragnavion didn't USE the scepter, he pulled out the sword and tossed the scepter aside. Ragnavion could beat Desann, and it would be a fair fight. I just dislike individuals that slam characters for no apparent reason (or worse, list a bullshit reason).

Originally posted by Illustrious
Doesn't mean he wasn't going full tilt. He was trying to defend himself and still got rubble dropped on his silly head.



I'm not even going to make this a conversation on Revan, because you won't stop arguing that a penny is a dime.



What the hell kind of hat did you pull that from?

Where does it say Desann is not powerful enough to be a Sith Lord? The SITH is a CULT order, it's almost like a religion, there's no "Minimum Power Level to be a Sith". Desann was a rogue, he did his OWN THING, he wouldn't want to be tied down with generations of tradition. Why do you think he left the Jedi in the first place, became Dark, and used the Remnant Empire to create a whole legion of force users?



Oh, so all those other occassions when he made an appearance to Kyle, and then ran off don't mean anything, right?



Desann is STRONGER than Kyle, that doesn't mean Kyle isn't smart enough to beat him. Not to mention you have to factor in the LOCATION of the battle, like you said. I don't believe Desann intended to have the battle two feet from the Jedi Academy.

I mentioned Ragnavion because it says "Tavion with Ragnos training".

Ragnos never TRAINED Tavion, so I'm assuming he means Ragnavion.

Also, Ragnavion didn't USE the scepter, he pulled out the sword and tossed the scepter aside. Ragnavion could beat Desann, and it would be a fair fight. I just dislike individuals that slam characters for no apparent reason (or worse, list a bullshit reason).

About The "Minimum power level" thing, no, it's not official or anything but without it, everyone who wants to be a Sith Lord would just suddenly be one. Kyp Durron was a Sith Lord at one point then. So was Tavion and everyone else in the disciples of Ragnos then too.

How much have you played JO? Desann only talked to Kyle twice. Once when he had no Force powers and the second time was before he died, so Desann didn't run off except to trick Kyle into going to the Valley.

How can you even say Desann is stronger than Kyle? Kyle beat him so what makes you think Desann's stronger? The location didn't matter much, Desann didn't fight anyone else from the academy.

Again, I agree with you, Ragnavion would defeat Desann IMO. And I'm not trying to slam Desann at all, but I really don't think Desann would beat Luke if Luke was trying to kill Desann.

Desann.

Thanks for that.

Desann stomps.

Desann, no contest.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Thanks for that.