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is this team too much .. even for the Prince of Power ?

(the Herc i mean, is the one, BEFORE he lost power by Zeus)

yes it is too much

*sighs* too much

no way. Herc beats them all down. Before he got his power drained he handed Terminus his ass, so the FF w/ She-Hulk is nothing to him.

Originally posted by armandovalles
no way. Herc beats them all down. Before he got his power drained he handed Terminus his ass, so the FF w/ She-Hulk is nothing to him.

She Hulk is a lot stronger nowadays...

yea, but she's still nowhere close to classic Herc's level. Classic Herc handed Terminus his ass! TERMINUS! The same Terminus (the same type, anyways) that gave the JLA problems in JLA/Avengers.

So far she has proven to be stronger than Mortal Herc.

About a straight up fight unless Hercules does like Glads and starts going for the kill early he wont have a clear win.

F4 alone should be sufficient. Hercules is too one dimensional.

The big problems are Reed and Invisible Woman. He can dish and take the rest.

If Reed doesnt have any prep what can he do in a straigh up fight to Hurt Herc?

Now my other doubt : Has invisible woman shields been broken before? Or if not, as she become exausted with the strain and passed out?

i think Herc would win cuz in my opinion all Herc needs to do is punch each member once to knock everyone out (including Thing and She-Hulk)

Ill await for someone come up with how Reed would take him in a straight brawl, without any prep.

I see Herc taking the others, especially because theres nothing indicating - yet - that She Hulk is stronger than Immortal Hercules. Hes also more skilled than his opponents, being Thing the closest they got on that level.

Taking Sue out its going to be the problem, thats why i also asked about her shields.

She-Hulk isnt stronger than classic Herc! She's only stronger than the current, mortal Hercules.

Thats what i said. So far she proved to be stronger than the Mortal one.

If Marvels idea is for her to be stronger than Immortal Herc, they sure didnt showed it yet.

This is how the fight would go:
First, reed would get close to him and try to reason with him, and Herc would hit him once and knock him out. Then Herc, since he knows how to fight very well, would realize that his biggest threats are the Thing and She-Hulk, so he would go after them, knocking them each out in one or two hits. Then he would go after the Human Torch, who would probly go airborne. using his incredible leg strength, herc would jump up, grab HT, and take a nosedive back down to the ground with him on his shoulder. Then comes the Invisible Woman. I dont think breaking through her shields would be that much of a problem once the others are knocked out, because it'll take time for him to bust through so if he tried to get to her first, he could be left open for attack by the other 4 while hes trying to break threw her shield, which is why he would save her for last.

the FF beat Terminus twice. Actually Reed beat him by himself with some parts he took off the fantasticar! HAHAHA. Herc goes down hard.

yeas, but thats the entire Fantastic Four WITH PREP. Hercules has no prep nor did he have any help.

The thing is those arguing for Herc are arguing as if he's going to be taking them on one by one. He's not. He's fighting all of the FF simultaneously as a team, + She-Hulk who's also had team experience with the FF.

She-Hulk was in Jupiter Suit when they arm-wrestled wasn't she?

Originally posted by armandovalles
yeas, but thats the entire Fantastic Four WITH PREP. Hercules has no prep nor did he have any help.

No Reed beat him by himself and didnt even know who the hell he was.

yea i think so. But that was MORTAL, WEAKENED Hercules. This Hercules is like at least 5 times as strong.

what r u talking about?

xmarksthespot asked if She-Hulk was in the jupiter suit when she arm-wrestled Mortal Herc, so i responded.

Originally posted by armandovalles
She-Hulk isnt stronger than classic Herc! She's only stronger than the current, mortal Hercules.

I wish there was a way to differentiate between the two.

Hercules isn't full-god right now?

no, he was never a full-god except for in the mythology. When he firstr arrived in comics, he was equal to Thor without Mjolnir in terms of strength and was described only as a demi-god (which means 50% god). Then, some time later, he joined the Avengers, and for some unknown reason, was a hell of a lot stronger, and was not called a demi-god or a full-god, just a "god". Then, in Avengers #269, Zeus took away his godhood and immortality, therefore sapping him of most of his strength. Over the years though, he has been gradually regaining his strength, and currently he has about one-quarter of his original strength (the one that was equal to Thor w/op Mjolnir), whereas when he first got sapped he only had about one-tenth.

Mjolnir doesn't increase Thor's strength...

yea it does, when he's in possession of it his strength gets multiplied by 1.5.

so say he lifts 100 tons without it, that means he lifts 150 tons with it.

i don't think so armando. what you basing that increase on?

and thor and hulk have both applied enough pressure in the past to sue's force fields that she nearly passed out and WOULD have had there not been intervention. herc could get through it - but it would take time. i'm not really sure hwo would win this fight.

Originally posted by armandovalles
yea it does, when he's in possession of it his strength gets multiplied by 1.5.

so say he lifts 100 tons without it, that means he lifts 150 tons with it.

Never heard of that. The belt of strength is the only thing that increases Thor's strength (x5, I think.) Where'd you hear about Mjolnir increasing his strength?

Thor lifts a shitload more than 100 tons...

Thor strength is above 100 tons, The belt of strength increase his strength 2x.

It said in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers 2004 that when Thor is in possession of Mjolnir his strength is multiplied by 1.5.

I'll check on that.....

I never read that...

"The thing is those arguing for Herc are arguing as if he's going to be taking them on one by one. He's not. He's fighting all of the FF simultaneously as a team, + She-Hulk who's also had team experience with the FF."

Its a brawl. The way i see it would happen pretty much the same with the Hulk. Thing and Torch pretty much go down. She Hulk since we dont know how strong she is compared with immortal levels its a doubt. If shes not really stronger she wont last long. That leaves you Reed and Sue. Reed in a straight up fight its not going to get hurt because of his maleable body. But he can get knocked out. Its Sue the real key. The most powerful member of the Fantastic Four and whose shields if im not wrong wer never broken. A Brawl the F4 its not using all theyr potental while Herc is. Of course hes not going to win all. Not by a longshot.

"She-Hulk was in Jupiter Suit when they arm-wrestled wasn't she?"

Yes.

About the difference between Mortal Herc and immortal, its merely a powerset one. When he was first made Mortal all of his powers wer cut in half. Later showings ( Jla/Avengers, She-Hulk, against the exemplars and Dark Gods ) shows him to be alot stronger. A low class 100 of sorts. What hurts him in powerset when hes Mortal its the huge lack of stamina compared what he had, less durability and less streght.

Immortal levels make him pretty much tireless, able to take on bullets and energy atatcks, full strenght (nevermind the tons, like with Thor and Hulk, its not quantified, there was nothing these could find that they couldnt lift. ) together with the figthing skills and immortality.

About Thors belt of strenght, it increases his own strenght twice.

from where i read it said that thor with mjor is class 1000
hmmmphhhh.....................................

file:///c:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Compaq_Owner/Desktop/TSR6854%20-%20Marvel%20Super%20Heroes%20-%20AC2%20Avengers%20Assembled.pdf

Originally posted by armandovalles
no, he was never a full-god except for in the mythology. When he firstr arrived in comics, he was equal to Thor without Mjolnir in terms of strength and was described only as a demi-god (which means 50% god). Then, some time later, he joined the Avengers, and for some unknown reason, was a hell of a lot stronger, and was not called a demi-god or a full-god, just a "god". Then, in Avengers #269, Zeus took away his godhood and immortality, therefore sapping him of most of his strength. Over the years though, he has been gradually regaining his strength, and currently he has about one-quarter of his original strength (the one that was equal to Thor w/op Mjolnir), whereas when he first got sapped he only had about one-tenth.
The Hercules that in Marvel Universe is showed substaining the earth weight on his shoulders is the full god one.
Hercules in half god form, is immortal, and can be injured only in the Olympian dimension, and is strong as Classic Thor without Mjolnir.
The Hercules that fought Hulk Post Onslaught was mortal, and was even weaker than the half-god version, he was relying on his skills knowing his durability/resistance to injuries and superstrenght weren't at levels sufficients to be a real concrete threat to the Hulk.
Full God Hercules granted Atlas to rest from his job, he'll beat down the FF4 so bad they'll retire from their career.
The half-god one will beat down them too.

Originally posted by 28Dave37
yes it is too much

I concur!

The FF alone could take The "God Hercules" all by themselves.

The mortal Herc is done up quickly.

With the addition of She-Hulk.

Not much of a fight.

Originally posted by olympian
So far she has proven to be stronger than Mortal Herc.

About a straight up fight unless Hercules does like Glads and starts going for the kill early he wont have a clear win.

How do you know it was a mortal hercules? In his current series did an event happen to suddenly make him immortal again or is he mortal now in his current series?

Either way the team wins

Originally posted by armandovalles
no, he was never a full-god except for in the mythology. When he firstr arrived in comics, he was equal to Thor without Mjolnir in terms of strength and was described only as a demi-god (which means 50% god). Then, some time later, he joined the Avengers, and for some unknown reason, was a hell of a lot stronger, and was not called a demi-god or a full-god, just a "god". Then, in Avengers #269, Zeus took away his godhood and immortality, therefore sapping him of most of his strength. Over the years though, he has been gradually regaining his strength, and currently he has about one-quarter of his original strength (the one that was equal to Thor w/op Mjolnir), whereas when he first got sapped he only had about one-tenth.

When characters first appear in comics theyre always shown as much more powerful and dangerous. You cant assume that just because sometimes he's referred to as demi god and sometimes just as a god that hercules power levels change as well. The same thing happens to Galactus and other powerful cosmics with no relation to their power levels. It just depends on the writer. When Zeus actually took away Hercs immortality did it actually say his physical strength had been reduced in the comic or did you assume that because he wasnt performing feats as great as he did when he first appeared in comics. Im just asking because all of this is confusing. Also those figures relating to his strength are just unfounded speculation and should not be used in a debate as part of an argument.

"How do you know it was a mortal hercules? In his current series did an event happen to suddenly make him immortal again or is he mortal now in his current series?"

Because the writer Tieri said he would write him as immortal. And he did. Mortal Herc wouldnt have such an easy time with Abom like he if he had the depowered strenght. Mortal Herc as in his later showings would do alot better than he did against Hulk in unleashed, but ko him with one hit?

Not to mention ive read in forums already that Thor did the very same thing to Abomination on another time. Regular Thor is stronger than Mortal Herc by defination.

"When Zeus actually took away Hercs immortality did it actually say his physical strength had been reduced in the comic or did you assume that because he wasnt performing feats as great as he did when he first appeared in comics."

It was stated that his full power was cut in half. In Hercs miniseries after that event and the Hulk one shot its stated again he wasent as strong as he once was. The team where he was for some time during that era ( Heroes for Hire ) states the same and shows hes not strong as before. There are pretty much in all his apperances until recently statements by him and other characters about his depowering issue.

"Im just asking because all of this is confusing"

I give you that. Cannon wise he was mortal until the recent series.

While written as immortal we didnt saw Zeus giving his immortality back on panel yet. So either he is still mortal but its written as immortal -anyway-, or he was given back his immortality off panel and some next story might make reference to it.

From what ive gathered from some Tieri`s interviews hes pretty much wrapping a sequel to this mini. So we might get a clear answer to all the mess. He should just be immortal and let it be done with it.

Originally posted by olympian
"How do you know it was a mortal hercules? In his current series did an event happen to suddenly make him immortal again or is he mortal now in his current series?"

Because the writer Tieri said he would write him as immortal. And he did. Mortal Herc wouldnt have such an easy time with Abom like he if he had the depowered strenght. Mortal Herc as in his later showings would do alot better than he did against Hulk in unleashed, but ko him with one hit?

Not to mention ive read in forums already that Thor did the very same thing to Abomination on another time. Regular Thor is stronger than Mortal Herc by defination.

"When Zeus actually took away Hercs immortality did it actually say his physical strength had been reduced in the comic or did you assume that because he wasnt performing feats as great as he did when he first appeared in comics."

It was stated that his full power was cut in half. In Hercs miniseries after that event and the Hulk one shot its stated again he wasent as strong as he once was. The team where he was for some time during that era ( Heroes for Hire ) states the same and shows hes not strong as before. There are pretty much in all his apperances until recently statements by him and other characters about his depowering issue.

"Im just asking because all of this is confusing"

I give you that. Cannon wise he was mortal until the recent series.

While written as immortal we didnt saw Zeus giving his immortality back on panel yet. So either he is still mortal but its written as immortal -anyway-, or he was given back his immortality off panel and some next story might make reference to it.

From what ive gathered from some Tieri`s interviews hes pretty much wrapping a sequel to this mini. So we might get a clear answer to all the mess. He should just be immortal and let it be done with it.

So from what you're seeing so far in his title Herc is being written immortal is that what you're saying?