outside the universe

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oldage
the question that i have always pondered upon is: what is outside of our known universe? maybe just different universes? but that can't go on forever. and what if there was no universe? there couldn't just be nothing. because technicaly, nothing is something

Shakyamunison
Nothingness.

Storm
By definition, we have no way of knowing.

Fire
I doubt we will ever know. Heck I find the concept of the universe ending difficult

Kuntz
Mathematically a good place to start is Adventures in Flatlan

The link below takes you to Edwin Abbot and beyond, have fun understanding that scientific theories about this make more sense than mystical mumbo jumbo.

http://www.calormen.com/Flatland/


Enjoysmile

debbiejo
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothingness.

Knew you'd say that.... laughing out loud

But there are billions of universes aren't there....Or am I thinking galaxies.... But we will never know what is there....maybe if I meditate real long and hard...I'll get the answer tomorrow and post it...... eek!

Kuntz
A very good representation, make your own pocket universe simulation/game here

This is fun smile

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/JCthugha10.html

and this is more factual and;


Pretty Intersting smile

Polarities in Symmetry are in the 7th dimension; that means 3 spacial translations (or rectangular length, width and height), 3 rotations each about one of the spatial axes (we call them X,Y and Z) plus an additional temporal frame of Time.

Rotational dimension simply means, that if you point your finger at something, then you can move this finger forwards and backwards, to the left and right and up and down. These are the translations of straight going. But you can also turn your finger whilst you move it along any of those translations and so there are also 3 angular or rotational dimensions to each of the linear ones. But the rotational dimensions are circles with no beginning or end and therefore no linear distance can be measured.

Think of your wristwatch with little and big hands and also of your kitchen clock on the wall. Now at any time, the times are the same (if synchronised), with the angle between the big hand and the little hand being equal (i.e. at six o'clock, the angle would be 180 degrees). So the angular measure is the same, despite the circumference of the kitchen clock being much larger than the one on the wristwatch. This perimeter is really superfluous and unneccessary if one thinks of concentric circles; one circle inside another and centred at the same centrum. One measures the angular size (degrees or radians) and nothing linear at all. So it is easy to see, that the rotational dimensions are not perceivable with five-sensual linear ways of looking at things and especially since the circle around the angle between the two "hands" could be so small (or large) as to be impossible either to measure or to see.

Contemporary science actually proposes an 11-dimensional spacetime in which 7 dimensions are contained or collapsed into subatomic space in the form of Superstrings, which are short straight line-segments curled up into loops or miniature circles.

But after 3 Translations and 3 Rotations with One Timeframe; how can we describe even higher dimensional space?

Let us define our space above 4-D as HYPERSPACE - the SPACE of DIMENSIONAL ROTATION. We have only one more mode of movement, this mode we term QUANTUMSPACE. Quantumspace spans dimensions 8-10 and the mode of variation is expansion or contraction (or inflation/deflation along X,Y,Z or XY,XZ,YZ or xYz).

More simply, think again of your pointed finger. You can move it straight or round for Ordinary Space and Hyperspace; but you can also bend it. Now in Quantumspace, the dimensions are not bent, but they expand or contract.

The only way you can do this with your finger is to consider it over time. As a baby, your finger, when straightened, is not as long as when you are a child or adult. This growth (or imaginary shrinking) is QUANTUMSPACE.

Now the 1Oth dimension is just like the blowing up of a balloon and that's why the scientists now propose an "Inflationary Universe in 4-D".

The technical details of all of that are available from this author (for example how the linear limit of the 4-D universe has a radius of l.693623029x1026 cosmic metres or 17.88960713 Billion cosmic lightyears and many other such things).

Tony Bermanseder

Pacifica Omniscience

17 Bungendore Road

Queanbeyan 2620, NSW

Australia




-Kuntz

Kuntz
This is interesting as wellsmile

-Kuntz

Atlantis001

debbiejo

debbiejo
I was thinking and there was an example given in a book I've read...

If you look at a holographic picture, Lets say a dog...it changes depending on the angle your looking at it..kinda looks dimensional...now, if you cut that picture in half...you don't have half of the one picture, but have 2 complete whole picture that are only cut in half..If you cut it in half again, the same thing happens, and again and again...until the littlest piece of your original picture is STILL the"whole Picture" of the dog...That is how the universe is set up..I think...and that is how everything is set up...that is how we are set up...we are just "whole" and complete pictures of another whole "Bigger Picture"...kinda like our cells are parts of the whole that we are...We are the smaller in the bigger universe, and our universe could be the smaller in another, and the same could also be said with other things...maybe including what we think god is....and it goes on and on...in a multi dimensional way...

Atlantis001

debbiejo
Yes, yes....seems many things in nature are like that...a nature within a nature...or a fractals within fractals.....There was a site that also talked about this kinda thing...had to do with the Divine Number being in everything...had to do with the Number of pi...had pics and everything....this code is found in everything....I'll have to try to remember where I found it.

http://www.championtrees.org/yarrow/phi/phi.htm

http://goldennumber.net/neophite.htm this site is a little better.


Fibonacci numbers.....Like universes within universes

Wonderer
The universe must simply mean the infinity of all being. It is also a matter of what knowledge is. What do and what can we know? I think that all we can really know is that we are part of some form of being. And there isn't anything outside of being - to state that there is would be an ontological and epistemological contradiction.

Atlantis001

Shakyamunison

debbiejo
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Good job Atlantis001, you have hit on the essence of Buddhism, at least the way I see it. The nothingness is not empty.

Right...It's not empty....It's also a quantum thing..

Wonderer

debbiejo
That['s because our brains aren't meant to function outside our 5 senses...Just can't fathom it.....Though we could throw in a 6th sense...Still, couldn't fathom it.....We're just hopeless little carbon copies, filled with infinite energy that goes on forever.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
Right...It's not empty....It's also a quantum thing..

Why is it alway a quantum thing with you. Quantum this, quantum that, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum.

You should talk more about nothingness... laughing

Spelljammer
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothingness.
My quantamn physics book would agree with you whilst at the same time disagreeing with you.

There are endless multiverses.. But there is a seperation of these mutilverses so between them is nothingness, as they constantly expand and grow infinitely. But the nothingness is too infinite. As you can't measure "nothing".

Therfore mutiple universes exsist.
But we probably will never see or even witness them. (By witness I mean even on a cosmic level it's like they're not even there.)

debbiejo
Because it IS a quantum thing.........I've talked about nothingness....and nothing happened.... laughing out loud

Nothingness, nothingness, nothingness....There's more to live then nothingness.... cool

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Spelljammer
My quantamn physics book would agree with you whilst at the same time disagreeing with you.

There are endless multiverses.. But there is a seperation of these mutilverses so between them is nothingness, as they constantly expand and grow infinitely. But the nothingness is too infinite. As you can't measure "nothing".

Therfore mutiple universes exsist.
But we probably will never see or even witness them. (By witness I mean even on a cosmic level it's like they're not even there.)

Yes, you are on the right track, however, I don't believe there are multiverses, but that's just what I believe. Now the nothingness is not empty, it is full of the real world. This maybe the same thing as multiverses but I don't think it is like a copy but it's all the other dimensions that we can not understand.

Spelljammer
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, you are on the right track, however, I don't believe there are multiverses, but that's just what I believe. Now the nothingness is not empty, it is full of the real world. This maybe the same thing as multiverses but I don't think it is like a copy but it's all the other dimensions that we can not understand.
I could see that being a possibility too. Considering the sun's rays are just vibrations from the 5th dimension.

And scientists believe we have somewhere in the faccinity of 18 space and 4 time dimensions..

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Spelljammer
I could see that being a possibility too. Considering the sun's rays are just vibrations from the 5th dimension.

And scientists believe we have somewhere in the faccinity of 18 space and 4 time dimensions..

I try to keep up on this topic. The latest on string theory is that there maybe up to 12 or at least 10 dimensions. I like to say 10 because in Buddhist teaching there are 10 directions that the beams of light shot out of Buddha's third eye and revealed the true nature of the law.

Superfly4000
I love buddhism, i think that the more we move into this scientific age the more buddhism will be understood, especially is american culture.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Superfly4000
I love buddhism, i think that the more we move into this scientific age the more buddhism will be understood, especially is american culture.

When I first started my practice, I started by doing a lot of reading. I was amazed to find that a lot of the ideas in Buddhism worked with scientific thinking. Most people do not understand Buddhism. They hear all the strange names and term and think that it must be something just for intellectual debate. It really is just scientific thinking long before we had science.

I also love Buddhism, my practice has allowed me to change my life for the better. I'm still working on it and I will be for the rest of my life. Enlightenment is not the end of the journey, it is just the beginning.

Superfly4000
i just love the fact that it goes beyond this world and really makes you think of the greater picture. While Christianity seems to be foccused on this world and on 'morality' and is simply a tool of the system.

Spelljammer
Don't you find it odd however that Buddhism makes more and more sense and yet we are more reliant upon matireal gain and wordly pleasures then ever?

Also I think Buddhism was a great philosophy but I was a little unsettled by the prophecy Buddha would come back and destroy his own teachings. Why would Buddha do that? To prove a point? Because people need to find out for themself? They got re-written and corrupt?

Then again, bad translation and the test of time have proven to mix the words of ALL the religouns. I like to follow an overlooked but very true statement of "All Gods are one God". Even in The Bible Saint Peter makes meation to an "unknown God", and most witches see The Mother and The Son as manifestations of an unknown God..

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Spelljammer
Don't you find it odd however that Buddhism makes more and more sense and yet we are more reliant upon matireal gain and wordly pleasures then ever?

Also I think Buddhism was a great philosophy but I was a little unsettled by the prophecy Buddha would come back and destroy his own teachings. Why would Buddha do that? To prove a point? Because people need to find out for themself? They got re-written and corrupt?

Then again, bad translation and the test of time have proven to mix the words of ALL the religouns. I like to follow an overlooked but very true statement of "All Gods are one God". Even in The Bible Saint Peter makes meation to an "unknown God", and most witches see The Mother and The Son as manifestations of an unknown God..

Sorry to get on your case, but you do not understand Buddhism at all. What you just said is garbage. There are a lot of different types of Buddhism and some are more Hinduism that Buddhism. I feel that you are spreading lies.

Atlantis001

Shakyamunison

Bicnarok
The universe is the matter and energy which excists, not the nothigness which surrounds these things. The nothingness vacuum is endless, and thats the problem for us, we always expect something to be in something.

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