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Current Scarlet Witch

VS

Dark Phoenix (with Jean Grey as Host)


Who wins?

Phoenix.

Scarlet Witch has been found out to only be able to make illusions, she doesn't change reality.

That was just Hawkeye's theory because he was able to see two realities at once. If it were just illusions, then Roma wouldn't be shitting her pants at how the multiverse was coming down around her.

I mean, if everything is an illusion...what is Hawkeye?

He's just Hawkeye, his death was an illusion.
He couldn't see two realities, he saw the real reality and the paper thin illusion casted over said real reality.

Roma was an illusion too, the breach also.
The real world is perfectly normal, everything is just coated with a paper thin illusion that some can see through, especially the new chick layla or whatever.

SW can do only illusion, she isn't close powerful than what we thougt months ago.

We don't have magneto prime no more.....

Originally posted by long pig
We don't have magneto prime no more.....

We have and had before.

Originally posted by Xplosive
We have and had before.
Indeed, we've made it through much worse.........hold me.....

Originally posted by long pig
He's just Hawkeye, his death was an illusion.
He couldn't see two realities, he saw the real reality and the paper thin illusion casted over said real reality.

Roma was an illusion too, the breach also.
The real world is perfectly normal, everything is just coated with a paper thin illusion that some can see through, especially the new chick layla or whatever. Originally posted by Xplosive
SW can do only illusion, she isn't close powerful than what we thougt months ago. Originally posted by long pig
We don't have magneto prime no more.....

Bah, that remains to be seen. Have they learned nothing from Secret Wars? Until it's definitely resolved that it's all an illusion, and not just speculation by Hawkeye, I'm not buying that it's an illusion. Remember, HoM is supposed to have longstanding effects, meaning some changes are permanent. How do you explain Doom, who was quite dead (and it had nothing to do with Wanda) before the storyline started, now walking around?

How can Roma be an illusion when her location was separate from the effects of HoM (temporarily)? Remember, Psylocke and Rachel were safe from the effects of HoM while they were in the White Hot Room. Are you saying the White Hot Room is an illusion too? Why would they shift from one illusion to another, including the sudden altering of their memories?

Everything turning out to be some kind of cosmic scale Mastermind would leave waaaay too many plotholes. It's definitely more complicated than that.

where at all does it say scarlet just makes illusions?

Hawkeye, having had his memories jumpstarted by WPD (Walking Plot Device, some neverbefore seen girl who is able to show people alternate, or real, realities), picks up a newspaper and sees information on it from the 616 world (namely, his death), but when he shows it to someone else, they see a HoM world article. Hawkeye then concludes that the entire world is just a paper-thin illusion created by Wanda because he can see the truth right there, even though people still tied to the HoM world can't.

The problem with that is...it's just Hawkeye, so we don't know if he's correct or not. It is just an illusion, or can he just see the nexis of two realities at once (a concept far more difficult for him to understand)? Unknown, but I'm leaning towards the latter for reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

Why isn't anyone holding me?.......

Ask your other identities. I hear kgkg loves to hold...

Aw man, if it turns out these are illusions, GS will never let me hear the end of it.

You really think me kgkg and Cube are the same?

Magneto prime did have a certain ring to it though.....

I also think that you're Beyonder on those days you're pissed at me. It makes perfect sense - Beyonder = Evil Cosmic Cube, just like in the comics. It fits together too perfectly for it to not be true!

Magneto Prime is alive until proven dead, bitches!

Hmm... hasn't been proven that it isn't solely Wanda's power reshaping reality demigawd (although I'm not necessarily saying it is). Magneto Prime is still just conjecture.

The semantics of what Wolverine says in this panel could more easily be interpretted to mean Magneto made Wanda use her powers to change everything than Magento combined his powers with Wanda's to change everything.

In Excalibur, Magneto was shown actively using her powers to manipulate reality while she was unconscious. He said that her power derived from his and the two may work together for far greater effect. Strange also mentioned something similar in Exc #14.

Ah the wormholes, it is still an isolated incident and arguably a plot device. Wanda's powers act without her conscious control, such as the reanimation of Agatha Harkness, it's not implausible that her powers may act while she is unconscious. She may have created the wormholes there and back. She may have given Mags the power to create the wormholes.

Strange says a lot of things, he also said he and Xavier couldn't hold her. Riddle me this: if Strange thinks that it's a combo of Wanda and Magneto and not just Wanda then why not simply separate them?

Wanda Prime is just as valid as Magneto Prime because it's all conjecture thus far.

I'm not actually referring to the wormhole. the wormhole, I believe, is a product of Magneto's own power - it had nothing to do with Wanda. What I'm specifically referring to is Magneto summoning Dormmamu to fight Strange while putting Xavier through the paces in an effort to compel Xavier to kill Magneto and Wanda and put an end to the whole thing. Xavier, of course, refused, and Magneto restored everything to the way it was. Xavier was so freaked out by the experience that he fled to NYC, where the House of M then began.

There's really no clearer evidence than that to show that Magneto is indeed harnessing Wanda's power.

Wanda Prime?
Now you're just being silly.

Originally posted by long pig
Wanda Prime?
Now you're just being silly.
I know... but it's fun.

(I believe there is no precedent for Magneto having sufficient control over gravitational force, or sufficient generation of magnetic force to create a controlled wormhole. However you're welcome to enlighten me.)

Anyway my point is that nothing is conclusive until House of M ends. Could be illusion, could be Wanda's power alone, could be Magneto's power alone, maybe it's all Charles fault. No one knows until it ends.

Don't tell me what I don't know, like you would ever know what I don't know.
Who do you think you are, Wanda Prime??

The limits of Magneto's power were never really shown, and given that he's the source of his power, he sets the precedent. There was some exploration of his powers in the last few issues of Excalibur where several characters openly wondered why Magneto never used more of his power. The Unified Field Theory was proven in the Marvel Universe, which means Magneto has control over all four forces and by extension, the physical universe. No limit has been specifically defined for him since his Fatal Attractions power up, so really, nothing should be surprising or illogical.

The running theory was that he always held himself back because he was always conflicted about whether his purpose was truly correct. Charles, Dark Beast and Strange all fretted (at different times) what would happen if Magneto found a purpose about which he was 100% conflict-free. Saving his children? Check.

Originally posted by long pig
Don't tell me what I don't know, like you would ever know what I don't know.
Who do you think you are, Wanda Prime??

Yep I am the great and powerful Wanda Prime.
I'm also Batman.

Originally posted by demigawd
The running theory was that he always held himself back because he was always conflicted about whether his purpose was truly correct. Charles, Dark Beast and Strange all fretted (at different times) what would happen if Magneto found a purpose about which he was 100% conflict-free. Saving his children? Check.
meh.

Strange has no reason to fret.

If only he wasn't binded to Eternity by an oath not to kill.....Magneto would have never been born.

Originally posted by demigawd
The limits of Magneto's power were never really shown, and given that he's the source of his power, he sets the precedent. There was some exploration of his powers in the last few issues of Excalibur where several characters openly wondered why Magneto never used more of his power. The Unified Field Theory was proven in the Marvel Universe, which means Magneto has control over all four forces and by extension, the physical universe. No limit has been specifically defined for him since his Fatal Attractions power up, so really, nothing should be surprising or illogical.

The running theory was that he always held himself back because he was always conflicted about whether his purpose was truly correct. Charles, Dark Beast and Strange all fretted (at different times) what would happen if Magneto found a purpose about which he was 100% conflict-free. Saving his children? Check.

I thought beast said that he had control over ONE (electromagnetism) of the four forces, not all of them.

in what comic was this?

Originally posted by demigawd
Hawkeye, having had his memories jumpstarted by WPD (Walking Plot Device, some neverbefore seen girl who is able to show people alternate, or real, realities), picks up a newspaper and sees information on it from the 616 world (namely, his death), but when he shows it to someone else, they see a HoM world article. Hawkeye then concludes that the entire world is just a paper-thin illusion created by Wanda because he can see the truth right there, even though people still tied to the HoM world can't.

The problem with that is...it's just Hawkeye, so we don't know if he's correct or not. It is just an illusion, or can he just see the nexis of two realities at once (a concept far more difficult for him to understand)? Unknown, but I'm leaning towards the latter for reasons I mentioned in my previous post.

Dark Wanda takes this easily

Originally posted by long pig
meh.

Strange has no reason to fret.

If only he wasn't binded to Eternity by an oath not to kill.....Magneto would have never been born.

Bah! Strange couldn't take the OLD Magneto down...what's he going to do against the NEW one?

Originally posted by Crimson Phoenix
I thought beast said that he had control over ONE (electromagnetism) of the four forces, not all of them.

He has mastery over EM, but by extension, he's able to control all four forces, as he's done in the past, particularly with gravity manipulation.

Originally posted by JWangSDC
in what comic was this?

HoM#4 IIRC. The most recent one.

Originally posted by demigawd


HoM#4 IIRC. The most recent one.


where I read House of M 4 when it came out. \

Originally posted by JWangSDC
where I read House of M 4 when it came out. \

He actually has his memory in the pulse issue. i guess he gots his memory restored off panel after HOM 4

And with this battle, i'm really not sure. I have to see how wanda's powers are defined at the end of this. But hasnt wanda shown the ability to manipulate cosmic beings before ( the beyoner)?

So will anyone give me a straight answer? I have HoM 4 in my hands and it is NOT in there. I have the pulse
- House of M Special edition and I don't see where hawkeye could possibly be reading a newspaper in "the pulse" considering the pulse IS the newspaper...so where is this coming from?


Originally posted by Crimson Phoenix
He actually has his memory in the pulse issue. i guess he gots his memory restored off panel after HOM 4

And with this battle, i'm really not sure. I have to see how wanda's powers are defined at the end of this. But hasnt wanda shown the ability to manipulate cosmic beings before ( the beyoner)?

maybe you're seeing the page differently from the rest of us. Wanda strikes again!

Actually, I believe it's the most recent issue of Pulse. The HoM edition. His memories were restored in HoM 4, and he took off at the end of the issue. He resurfaced in the Pulse after finding a reporter there, where the whole illusion thing took place.

Uhm you guys are really freaking me out. Hawkeye did NOT take off @ the end of HoM4, he's with the rest of them @ emma's apartment. And there is no evidence of his memory being restored completely...he is only told so by wolverine...

Originally posted by JWangSDC
So will anyone give me a straight answer? I have HoM 4 in my hands and it is NOT in there. I have the pulse
- House of M Special edition and I don't see where hawkeye could possibly be reading a newspaper in "the pulse" considering the pulse IS the newspaper...so where is this coming from?

Not the newspaper pulse edition, the comic.

Ahhh...ok. Man I can't get my hands on that...can't find it anywhere. In fact I didn't know it even existed.

Originally posted by Crimson Phoenix
Not the newspaper pulse edition, the comic.

Originally posted by JWangSDC
Uhm you guys are really freaking me out. Hawkeye did NOT take off @ the end of HoM4, he's with the rest of them @ emma's apartment. And there is no evidence of his memory being restored completely...he is only told so by wolverine...

Then it'll probably happen off panel in HoM5. Its nothing to have a fit about.

lol.
"Read this last page! What's it show?"
"Uh...it shows Hawkeye with the rest of them at Emma's apartment"
"What? It...what? It doesn't show him storming off to find the truth??"
"N..no. You're really freaking me out, here"
"It's all an illusion. A paper-thin illusion that seemed so real. I..I can't believe this"

Damn you Wanda Prime! DAMN YOU ALL THE WAY TO HELL!!!

It happend in Pulse#10.

Wanda gets roasted