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Attempting to understand the nature of time has always been a prime occupation for philosophers. There are widely divergent views about its meaning, hence it is difficult to provide an uncontroversial and clear definition of the nature of time.

What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know.
Augustine of Hippo

What is time?

"time" is merely motion.........the movement of matter through space.

Yes, yes, yes, yes,..........I was too tired to type that.....

Time is space. Asking what is time is like asking what is up and down. I think the hidden question is; what is the past, present & future? This is, in my opinion, just an allusion. There is no past or future just now and now always changes. Like Evil Dead said " "time" is merely motion.........the movement of matter through space.". I would also add, "energy" to this statement.

Time is a manmade creation. A recording of change.

Originally posted by Oswald Kenobi
Time is a manmade creation. A recording of change.
A human one....linear.

Time is thought.

Originally posted by Wonderer
Time is thought.

I'm not sure time is thought.....thought exists outside of time, but can function in our perception of time......It's our bodies that exist in linear time.

Originally posted by George Carlin
There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent past.

Do we have time to talk about this?

If you are 1 dimensional; you can only be forward or back in space.
If you are 2 dimensional; you can only be forward or back and left or right in space.
If you are 3 dimensional; you can only be forward or back and left or right and up or down in space.
If you are 4 dimensional; you can move through space.

So, time is what allows us the space to move in a 3 dimensional world. Therefore, time is space.

well I don't believe that 4 dimensional stuff but that's me

To me Time is something man invented. a way to measure movement or change. But in itself Time does not exist. The cave men didn't have time didn't seem to annoy them very much.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Do we have time to talk about this?


So, time is what allows us the space to move in a 3 dimensional world. Therefore, time is space.

Time and Space continuum... .....

I think it has to do with dimensions too....

I don't like time...always need more....don't even wear a watch....

Now time might be the 4th dimension. But just time as we use it, with minutes, seconds and hours. Then what is that time

Originally posted by Fire
Now time might be the 4th dimension. But just time as we use it, with minutes, seconds and hours. Then what is that time

I think you are a talking about the rate of change. Cause and effect happens simultaneously, but the effect waits to become manifest. Depending upon the cause, the relationship between cause and effect are dilated. This dilation creates a consistent relationship between cause and effect. Cause always comes first and then effect. Retro causality is mathematically possible but has never been observed in nature. This relationship gives us the sense of time.

good point. but then why do we feel the urge almost the necesity to measure that time

Yup... there would be no room, but two objects can not exist at the same place and time, because our perpeption would be limited in my perpective. If cause and effect happen at the same point, this rule is not valid anymore. What I find cool is that there are frames of reference in relativity which cause and effect happen simultaneusly.

..^^ Could you list any sites....It would be interesting to read

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Yup... there would be no room, but two objects can not exist at the same place and time, because our perpeption would be limited in my perpective. If cause and effect happen at the same point, this rule is not valid anymore. What I find cool is that there are frames of reference in relativity which cause and effect happen simultaneusly.

I think cause and effect are two different ends of the same stick.

good thread.........I have nothing to add........Shaky and Atlantis already covered everything I would say.

I' m inclined to think like Augustine. Time is nothing in reality but exists only in the mind' s apprehension of that reality.

Time, the past, present and future are all now.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
"time" is merely motion.........the movement of matter through space.

Nope, that in it's self is merely movement, time is how long it takes for that matter to move.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Time, the past, present and future are all now.

True, however, the future is the only thing that can truly exist, the past is ended by the passing of time, as the future is constantly upon us.

Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
Nope, that in it's self is merely movement, time is how long it takes for that matter to move.

That would be the rate of change, not time. As you travel faster the rate of change slows down in relationship to an outside observer. Time is the space that allows something to move.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That would be the rate of change, not time. As you travel faster the rate of change slows down in relationship to an outside observer. Time is the space that allows something to move.

That space, is space, time is what has and will happen, it is also measurable, in long and short amounts.

Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
True, however, the future is the only thing that can truly exist, the past is ended by the passing of time, as the future is constantly upon us.

I wrote this in another thread:

Lets say you and I set our clocks to be the same, I then get into a space ship and blast off. We also have special magical cameras that will allow us to see each other instantly, regardless of the number of light years between us. I set the speed of my ship to be close to the speed of light. When you look at me thought your magical camera, you see me begin to slow down as I get closer to the speed of light, my clock also runs slower. From my perspective everything is normal, but when I look at you through my magical camera, you are moving really fast and your clock is spinning. I return in one year my time, but 5 years have past on Earth. I am in the past to you and you are in the future to me, but we stand side my side with no problem. If there was a past and future we would not be able to see each other.

I think in apples to this discussion.

Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
That space, is space, time is what has and will happen, it is also measurable, in long and short amounts.

Time is space, Relativity.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wrote this in another thread:

Lets say you and I set our clocks to be the same, I then get into a space ship and blast off. We also have special magical cameras that will allow us to see each other instantly, regardless of the number of light years between us. I set the speed of my ship to be close to the speed of light. When you look at me thought your magical camera, you see me begin to slow down as I get closer to the speed of light, my clock also runs slower. From my perspective everything is normal, but when I look at you through my magical camera, you are moving really fast and your clock is spinning. I return in one year my time, but 5 years have past on Earth. I am in the past to you and you are in the future to me, but we stand side my side with no problem. If there was a past and future we would not be able to see each other.

I think in apples to this discussion.

I'm going to think about that for a while, I'll make a valid point later today.

No.No.No. Time is thought, as I said earlier. It is entirely imagined, because without human self-consciousness, time would not have existed...something can only exist if it's said to exist....think about it...

Originally posted by Wonderer
No.No.No. Time is thought, as I said earlier. It is entirely imagined, because without human self-consciousness, time would not have existed...something can only exist if it's said to exist....think about it...

There are two ways of looking at time; 1. the clock on the wall, this is the time you are talking about (I think), 2. the space-time continuum that is warped by gravity and creates the lens effect. That is what I am talking about (I think).

What Is Time? the moments that makes up a dull day.......................-Pink Floyd

Originally posted by finti
What Is Time? the moments that makes up a dull day.......................-Pink Floyd

You and your song quotes, do you have TIME for anything else?

for those who say time is linear there is a problem...that would presume that the future events are predetermined

if time were linear and had a physical state then it would exist as a flat and infinitely long surface to which you could theoretically jump forward and backwards on it...but if its infinitely long then there is no relative forwards and backwards positions on its length anyway...hence the entire span of the length is theoretically at the same moment...making linear time travel impossible

so instead of looking at time as a line that travels into the past and future...think of it as an infinitely wide line that has no span into either the past or the future...but only exists in the moment you are in

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy....

I think it's TIME to visit another forum now.....Time flys when you're having fun....and sooooo timely tooooo....Maybe I'll go to Nottingham.

You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way -Pink Floyd

Originally posted by jaden101
for those who say time is linear there is a problem...that would presume that the future events are predetermined

if time were linear and had a physical state then it would exist as a flat and infinitely long surface to which you could theoretically jump forward and backwards on it...but if its infinitely long then there is no relative forwards and backwards positions on its length anyway...hence the entire span of the length is theoretically at the same moment...making linear time travel impossible

so instead of looking at time as a line that travels into the past and future...think of it as an infinitely wide line that has no span into either the past or the future...but only exists in the moment you are in


Any time we try to make a model of time we run into problems with observations not agreeing with the model. Your idea is good, but try this on for size. Think of time as a vibration were the direction of the wave is from the past to the future and from the future to the past. In this model, all past and future exists now and the vibration creates space enough for us and everything else in the universe to move.

Time is an illussion. Time is the essence of everything else playing it's part in the cosmic scheme of things and that little word taking the credit for it. Actions, thoughts, reality, God.. all things that makeup "time" but have infact nothing to do with "time". Time is the essence of these things moving mostly in a foward motion.

And it's about time I found out if Bran-Bran likes me or not.

Time is always on the run, we've only just begun, lovers in the wind
Life is all we have to share, you know we must take care
Lovers in the wind - Roger Hodgson (ex front man of Supertramp)

On a deeeeeeep level, I live outside of time....I hate it when I have to come back.....

Time after time
Time after time
Just listen to the sirens of the world
They breathe a whisper waiting for the word
And one day they'll remember, one day they will know -E.L.O

Time is a circle, and that is why Clocks are round.

how do you explain clocks that have diffrent shapes than a circle

You don't find many which aren't circles or ovals, but the ones which are different shapes are much harder to make.

must admit I havent seen a round alarm clock in well ages.

Mine is digital...

a flat one with red digits?

Red digits yes......plays pretty music tooo....

what shape does it have

Kinda flat and long, rectangular.

hmmmm

It is.....It has buttons on the top too....I know what buttons to push to get the results I want....Like to turn it off or on....loud or soft.

Originally posted by debbiejo
It is.....It has buttons on the top too....I know what buttons to push to get the results I want....Like to turn it off or on....loud or soft.

What are you talking about? We don't have time for this.

Back on track please.

Time,
Time,
Time, see what's become of me
While I looked around for my possibilities -Simon & Garfunkel

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What are you talking about? We don't have time for this.

It's better then winding you own clock.....

Back on track, before the Storm hits.

we have time to find shelter

When you get right down to it our universe works alot like a computer program, composed primarily of data, numbers, and shapes. Which is why I have no trouble believing in the super string theory. Though it makes the world as we know it sound too much like The Matrix for comfort.

And to think, in every Matrix test I get Morpheus! You're all screwed!

yeah Matrix........... what a laugh.........and waste of TIME

I've heard that the best things in life are the TIMING...If you get the timing in sync, then all goes well.

especially in bed

lol

Originally posted by finti
especially in bed

That's the one place where Time is not an illusion....Can also be non linear.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's the one place where Time is not an illusion....Can also be non linear.

Hay! stop hogging the pipe...

Time is on my side
Yes it is

Originally posted by Superfly4000
Time is on my side
Yes it is

I don't have time for you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Time is space. Asking what is time is like asking what is up and down. I think the hidden question is; what is the past, present & future? This is, in my opinion, just an allusion. There is no past or future just now and now always changes. Like Evil Dead said " "time" is merely motion.........the movement of matter through space.". I would also add, "energy" to this statement. yes...

Time is something that is overated in terms of impact on the everyday, but underated in terms of its movement through the imagination.

Time is simply a unit of measurement. a measurement created to keep people in order and to help corporate America's employees show up to work when they are supposed to because 1200 hours is definite and saying when the sun is in the middle of the sky depends on individual judgement

Motion, energy and time are but the illusions of perceiving one STILL, frozen universe after another...No wonder on the microscopic scale every things moves in quantum jerks and jumps....The mind must move through what would be a lattice of frames of quantum jumps...And with quantum there are always forks in the road.which would lead us to different paths into several different futures directions..we seem to be pushed through...This push is the force we think of as time..and this unseen force usually compels us to move through the lattice primarily in one general direction..still there are great deals of variable paths..which would determine which future we take, or that our (own) consciousness takes...rejecting the other paths.

What Is Time?




it is fate's tool to carry out its purpose as a concept.

day and night, the different seasons and aging, do those only exist in mind too?

no, but they're not time related.

againg aint time related?

no

o really how aint aging time related??, time is just how we meassure the progress of stuff aging included

That doesn't mean anything. You talk about 'time' in a form of definitio-instinct - without thinking that is. Finti, ek dink jy's 'n totale idioot wat eenvoudig teen filosofie is omdat jy dink dis arogant om oor dinge te dink...jy kan glad nie vir jouself dink nie.

Originally posted by finti
o really how aint aging time related??, time is just how we meassure the progress of stuff aging included

I don't know what he is taking about, but the aging process can be slowed or speed up. Therefore, there is no connection between time and the aging process other than aging takes time. Human aging is genetic.

Originally posted by Wonderer
That doesn't mean anything. You talk about 'time' in a form of definitio-instinct - without thinking that is. Finti, ek dink jy's 'n totale idioot wat eenvoudig teen filosofie is omdat jy dink dis arogant om oor dinge te dink...jy kan glad nie vir jouself dink nie.

Hay! I have a hard enough time reading English...
At least give subtitles.

Ha-ha...thought I'd throw in a bit of my home language...sorry, can't translate the words in this thread.

dont mind Philo aka Wonderer shakey, he is just a sorry excuse of a wanna be philosopher /slash poet/thinker(in his mind only)compulsive liar on and off medication, obviously off now when his little head crack into african dutch rambeling

. even if aging can be slowed or speed up, it is still part of the progress that evolvs everything in this universe and that progress involves what we refer to as time, time labels/covers how we deceided to meassure it, even the ancient man meassurted time, not by our modern standard but by the seasons. So if aging aint part of natural process that "time" covers please tell me what it is part off. And as you said aging takes time which indicates aging is time related.

too much braging about your ability to think there Philo

Originally posted by Wonderer
Ha-ha...thought I'd throw in a bit of my home language...sorry, can't translate the words in this thread.
But I can.

So, translate then.

Time is the force pushing us through the lattice of quantum jumps called slides of reality.

Time is just a highly relative measurement we use to measure the passing of things.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Time is just a highly relative measurement we use to measure the passing of things.

But what is the "passing of things"?

like pass the potatoes please

OH, you said please....such etiquette.....and gravy please....and rolls and butter.....

Originally posted by finti
like pass the potatoes please

Passing of gass.

Pass the grass.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Pass the grass.....

EAR...

NO...Pass the weed.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
NO...Pass the weed.....

That is what "EAR" means

It's the most commonly spoken word while smoking pot.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is what "EAR" means

It's the most commonly spoken word while smoking pot.

OH....lets see, we said weed, joint, reefer, stuff, plant, oh I don't know...

Just pass that thing......and don't bogart it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
OH....lets see, we said weed, joint, reefer, stuff, plant, oh I don't know...

Just pass that thing......and don't bogart it.

Hay! I think someone is reading this.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hay! I think someone is reading this.

NO...never did call it hay...

Originally posted by debbiejo
NO...never did call it hay...

Shhhhhhh!

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but did you ever get the feeling that we are, like on the Internet, you know one of those forums, and everybody in the world is reading what we write?

OH NO!!!!......Public access....They're all looking...

tv_horror

OK...we're talking about salad.....aren't we....just salad.....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But what is the "passing of things"?

Well the best I can come up with trying to define the passing of things is the interaction between the four fundamental forces , matter and energy.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Well the best I can come up with trying to define the passing of things is the interaction between the four fundamental forces , matter and energy.

Time is space.

Time is pushing us through space...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Time is space.

Time is not space, space is space, what we call time is what happens or the passing of things as I like to call it.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Time is not space, space is space, what we call time is what happens or the passing of things as I like to call it.

Have you read the theory of Relativity?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Have you read the theory of Relativity?

Yes, I dont believe einstein said time and space were the same thing.

Time is the force that has the push....pushes us through the many dimensions we call space...without that force things would be like a frozen universe...a still slide on a movie screen.....Each slide on the screen is a time jump from one spot in your reality to the next..ie...quantum jumps.....Depending on which movie is playing will be your consciousness/mind or self as you know it...

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Yes I know, I misunderstood you before; you are correct, according to einstein anyway. You have to remember relativity is just a theory, a theory thats held up to much scientific testing and may someday become law, but still a theory. I highly respect einstein and agree with him on many things but I respectfully disagree with him and you on time, I happen to have the opinion that time is not the 4th dimension intertwined with space but that it is something made up by humans to measure the natural interaction of things.

Well, I respect your opinion, and share it to a degree. I think there are two types of time. One of them is what you are talking about, and the other one is what I'm talking about. I don't know how to make it clear, but if I come up with something I'll tell you.

i agree with gv. i believe the 4th dimension is movement. you may say movement and time are the same but do not believe so. if something passes through the same point in space with the same 3 dimensions as before that means that it would be different because it is a new time but in fact if you look at it it is exactly the same as the last time it passed through that point in space. but what is measurable is if that object has moved from that exact point in space. the main reason einstien couldnt get past the theory of quantum physics is because he saw time as the next dimension...

has anyone seen donnie darko? good movie especially after a beezer...

back to what i was saying. my personal point of view of time is that there was big bang, everything goes outward, gravity says hey get back here, everything condenses to the point of ani-physics (where everything that is physics is backwards, gravity, light, everything is backwards for that split moment that is shorter than the opposity of infinity) and boom new big bang. a process that goes on and on making time irrevalent. prog from the movie kapak talks about it near the end if youve seen it, but ive been thinking about this theory before i even saw the movie.

sorry i typed so much, by the way does anyone know where i can get a burger king suit for cheap? that guy is freaky

Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.

Originally posted by Mindship
Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.
Time is just a process of change so that the above would be true.

Originally posted by Storm
Attempting to understand the nature of time has always been a prime occupation for philosophers. There are widely divergent views about its meaning, hence it is difficult to provide an uncontroversial and clear definition of the nature of time.

What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know.
Augustine of Hippo

What is time?

Time has no nature, as it is empty. Reality is fleeting non-substantial movement. Nothing for that matter has a nature, or essence, because everything is empty. Think of this: What is it that makes an automobile what it is? Whan does it cease to be an automobile? When you take of the wheels? An atom is composed of sub-atomic particles, those sub-atomic particles are in turn composed of other particles, etc., etc., ad infin...it just carries on. You'll never find the base essence of anything, so everything is made up of nothing...or at least, everything is appearance, not substance, vibration, not fixed or solid.

It's difficult to explain in words, but we have to accept that ultimate reality is not fully comprehensible in terms of language, truth and logic - it is not illogic, irrational, but non-rational, non-logical, or rather, superior than the mere logical dimension - beyond truth...

Yes, there are other dimensions that work in other times.....Trying to understand time is quite fascinating since we only perceive this vibration for our own......If the government ever did try to use the space/time as a weapon, I think it would be a big mistake...

Does anybody else think that the existence of God is disproved by the movement of time?

Bit off-topic, I know. If people think the question merits it, I'll make another thread.

Originally posted by Trickster
Does anybody else think that the existence of God is disproved by the movement of time?

I'm listening.

"Time doesn't exist until it is broken"

Okay, here goes:

First off, I'll make it clear I'm discussing the God of Classical Theism. Their God is infinite, in power and knowledge. Also, since He has no cause, he is infinite - he has always existed. This is my first premise.

However, from what we see around us, the universe is also progressing from a point in time when it began - presumably to a time when eventually it will end - Armageddon. Since there there is a time frame in which the universe progresses, that implies (unless the universe is infinte*) a beginning and an end.

In turn, this implies that because God must also view this beginning and end, God must also be existing in a time stream of some sort. He 'saw' the universe begin, and he will 'see' it end. Since God exists within time, that again implies a beginning and end.

That means that God cannot be infinite, and so doesn't exist. (The God of Classical Theism anyway)

*If the universe is infinite, there's no need for a God.

Looking back, I don't know how coherent that was. I was reading about the Kalam argument, and it sprang from that.

I'll try and expand if it's necessary.

Originally posted by Trickster
Okay, here goes:

First off, I'll make it clear I'm discussing the God of Classical Theism. Their God is infinite, in power and knowledge. Also, since He has no cause, he is infinite - he has always existed. This is my first premise.

However, from what we see around us, the universe is also progressing from a point in time when it began - presumably to a time when eventually it will end - Armageddon. Since there there is a time frame in which the universe progresses, that implies (unless the universe is infinte*) a beginning and an end.

In turn, this implies that because God must also view this beginning and end, God must also be existing in a time stream of some sort. He 'saw' the universe begin, and he will 'see' it end. Since God exists within time, that again implies a beginning and end.

That means that God cannot be infinite, and so doesn't exist. (The God of Classical Theism anyway)

*If the universe is infinite, there's no need for a God.

That would be true of the limited god of the bible.

I edited this - but I've taken it out and posted again, so as not to confuse people.
_____________

Another argument based around time is that God operates within a time stream. An action comes after a decision - this is what we see in the universe around us. The action in question is God's creation of the universe. It must have come after God's decision to create the universe.

Bam! Time scale! God cannot be infinite.

_____________

Adapting an example from the Craig's argument;
If God claimed to be counting down from infinity, then eventually from counting down he would reach 3, 2, 1. Logically, time must be progressing (universe as point of reference), so eventually he would reach zero. God, then, must have had a beginning.

_____________

Sorry Storm. I don't understand how a god couldn't be everlasting. I won't go into the realm of multiple gods, but surely any god who created the universe would need to be present before it began.

Are you saying that one could exist outside of time completely? But surely they would need to act to create the universe.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That would be true of the limited god of the bible.

Shaky - any examples that would be exempt?

Time and space, like 2 sides of a coin, one can't exist without the other.
Is time real? Some say the past is past(gone), the future doesn't exist yet. That leaves only the present. But of course there is no present for if there was, what unit of time equals the present. 1 second?, half a second?. 1/1000th of a second? You can break it up for infinity. Could you even measure the length of your awareness of the present. If there is no exact scientific UOM for the present, it definition must be:
the passing or transference of the future into the past. But the past is gone and the future doesn't exist yet....
uh.....nevermind!

A pain in the ass

Time and space are a measure of causality(cause and effect). For example, if the effects of a nuclear explosion does not affect us, it is because it is separated from us on time or space.

Two events that are very distant from each other on space do not interact. They are not affected by the same causes, and it is not the same effects that act upon them. Two events too distant in time works in the same way, they are not being affected by the same effects.

Originally posted by Storm
God is commonly portrayed as being eternal. However, there is more than one way to understand the concept of eternal. On the one hand, God may be thought of as everlasting, which means that God has existed through all of time. On the other hand, God may be thought of as timeless, which means that God exists outside of time, unconstrained by the process of cause and effect.

Some schools of thought say "God" is both: immanent (everlasting in time) and transcendent (timeless/outside of time). All of time involves God, but not all of God involves time. Time is a tool, God's way of keeping everything from happening at once.

jerry

Exploring

Sorry, I just got really busy with some cool movies I just got...got to go now.

Originally posted by Storm
Attempting to understand the nature of time has always been a prime occupation for philosophers. There are widely divergent views about its meaning, hence it is difficult to provide an uncontroversial and clear definition of the nature of time.

What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know.
Augustine of Hippo

What is time?

^

Time is something I'm wasting by making this post......

I've always defined Time as a mortal's perception of the events that occur around him, and, when comparing to his own life-span, how long they take to come about.

Space

Time is the human measure of events in our tiny life And also a bane on the consumers who use battery operated clocks!