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I like a lot of Marvel comics on face value, but where are the classics from Marvel, the comics that are groundbreaking?
Have they existed in the last 25 years apart from Marvels?

DC have had Sandman, Hellblazer, Swampthing, Watchman, Kingdom Come etc

DC as Wildstorm has had the Authority.

Marvel has had Marvels.


I ask you are Marvel the Mcdonalds of Comic Companies? Is it always the same everywhere?

Prove me wrong!

DC AINT SHIT without VERTIGO and WS

TRUE STORY.

Groundbreaking Titles:

Uncanny X-Men
Runaways
New X-Men


Groundbreaking Limited Series:

Earth X (Universe, Paradise)
Marvels
Age of Apocalypse

on and on

Marvel's writing has fallen, sadly.

Originally posted by Pointinel
Groundbreaking Titles:

Uncanny X-Men
Runaways
New X-Men


Groundbreaking Limited Series:

Earth X (Universe, Paradise)
Marvels
Age of Apocalypse

on and on

So the X men are groundbreaking since 1980 hmmmmm

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Marvel's writing has fallen, sadly.

Cordera you admittedly barely read comics so you're hardly in the best position to be making such a comment.

why the hell not?

wildcats, authority, teen titans? where do you think they got the idea from?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cordera you admittedly barely read comics so you're hardly in the best position to be making such a comment.

You misread what I said, which explains your fallacy.

I said, "I" dont read them diehard.

There's a difference.

There are some comics I can't get into, (I dont know how you can), and I just pick up along.

I read more than most people here, I write my own comics and novels, and I read them regurlarly, would I go to the library everyday otherwise?

Why do you think I argue in sooo many threads?

It doesn't matter how many you read if you read them wrong. Which explains fanboys.

Don't question my reading again, I've heard you've been telling people I've never read comics, and I make shit up.


I used to like marvel more than DC, but now its a tie.

Originally posted by Pointinel
why the hell not?

wildcats, authority, teen titans? where do you think they got the idea from?

Agreed but that was pre 1980 I have Giant Size Uncanny Xmen 1

I think the Authority got its idea more from JLA or the Original squadron Supreme mini from 82 which was a Marvel and just makes it into the able to be counted section.

i gotta agree with you about the era thing... a lotta hacks came and penned the X horribly... *cough* CA *cough*

who's your top 3 x-scribes?

mine:
1. claremont
2. PAD
3. morrison

Originally posted by Pointinel
i gotta agree with you about the era thing... a lotta hacks came and penned the X horribly... *cough* CA *cough*

who's your top 3 x-scribes?

mine:
1. claremont
2. PAD
3. morrison

I stopped reading regularly after Claremont left the first time, yes I am that old, I read some of Morrisons when he was on it and it was typical quality Morrison, but it wasn't groundbreaking though.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You misread what I said, which explains your fallacy.

I said, "I" dont read them diehard.

There's a difference.

There are some comics I can't get into, (I dont know how you can), and I just pick up along.

I read more than most people here, I write my own comics and novels, and I read them regurlarly, would I go to the library everyday otherwise?

Why do you think I argue in sooo many threads?

It doesn't matter how many you read if you read them wrong. Which explains fanboys.

Don't question my reading again, I've heard you've been telling people I've never read comics, and I make shit up.


I used to like marvel more than DC, but now its a tie.


CM if you've heard ive been saying something then confront me directly do not resort to immature smilies and snidey comments. I expect better of you.

You said to me that you barely read comics simple as. On many of the threads ive been on with you, you have asked me or others to explain comic events or characters powers which are otherwise common knowledge on theses forums to those who read comic books. Therefore it is understandable that i would question your comic book knowledge because ive seen a lack of it in threads. Theres a difference between common sense and comic book knowledge. To your credit you posess the former in abundance, however from what ive seen you still need to work on the latter.

I have not been talking about you negatively behind your back. As a friend on here i would have hoped you would have thought better of me and taken up the issue with me directly as an adult should. I was PMed by a noob poster who said that me and you seem to be good friends on here and that you seem to be a good debator, so what do i think would be the best way of taking you down. I told them to read a variety of comics and keep on their current events becasue you through your own admission barely read comics. Wheres the malice in that?

This now explains you're snidey comments. I would have expected you of all people to take it up with me like an adult. Im disappointed CM.

You however have brought to my attention that this noob poster has been sh*t stirring as it were. I will rectify that situation by taking it up with them in a manner befitting of the adult i am.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do not resort to immature smilies.


hang on a minute guys, whats immature about this

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
CM if you've heard ive been saying something then confront me directly do not resort to immature smilies and snidey comments. I expect better of you.

You said to me that you barely read comics simple as. On many of the threads ive been on with you, you have asked me or others to explain comic events or characters powers which are otherwise common knowledge on theses forums to those who read comic books. Therefore it is understandable that i would question your comic book knowledge because ive seen a lack of it in threads. Theres a difference between common sense and comic book knowledge. To your credit you posess the former in abundance, however from what ive seen you still need to work on the latter.

I have not been talking about you negatively behind your back. As a friend on here i would have hoped you would have thought better of me and taken up the issue with me directly as an adult should. I was PMed by a noob poster who said that me and you seem to be good friends on here and that you seem to be a good debator, so what do i think would be the best way of taking you down. I told them to read a variety of comics and keep on their current events becasue you through your own admission barely read comics. Wheres the malice in that?

This now explains you're snidey comments. I would have expected you of all people to take it up with me like an adult. Im disappointed CM.

You however have brought to my attention that this noob poster has been sh*t stirring as it were. I will rectify that situation by taking it up with them in a manner befitting of the adult i am.

I'm not really mad, but you just brought it up again. The smilies were a joke, thats all.

You've said it in like 20 threads, now I've asked you questions sure enough, but those were on things that didn't make since to me in a match, or a character I didn't read on, like Phoenix, which I just mentioned in my previous post.

As far as commons sense, I have no problem with that, but its all within the characters abilities, when fanboys bring up stuff like wolverine jumped 30 feet in the air, but they can't explain how, then its bad evidence period.

You did so in the what can wolverine survive thread. We all understood the point, on wolverine's inconsistancies, but you insisted that he was taking damage from harder hitters, than said that was besides the point. You contradicted yourself.

Either that or you go around and say "why do you hate storm" or "why do you hate wolverine".

You did that on 3 threads and walked off, not that it matters.

This is a hypothetical debate, what happens in the comics happens there, but its impartial judgement.

I could make a list 1 mile long about who beat who, but it wouldn't matter, its all intangibles.

Best to stick to fact, and go by whats presented in who will win.

I never said I barely read comics, I said I wasn't a diehard reader, there's a difference my friend.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I'm not really mad, but you just brought it up again. The smilies were a joke, thats all.

You've said it in like 20 threads, now I've asked you questions sure enough, but those were on things that didn't make since to me in a match, or a character I didn't read on, like Phoenix, which I just mentioned in my previous post.

As far as commons sense, I have no problem with that, but its all within the characters abilities, when fanboys bring up stuff like wolverine jumped 30 feet in the air, but they can't explain how, then its bad evidence period.

You did so in the what can wolverine survive thread. We all understood the point, on wolverine's inconsistancies, but you insisted that he was taking damage from harder hitters, than said that was besides the point. You contradicted yourself.

Either that or you go around and say "why do you hate storm" or "why do you hate wolverine".

You did that on 3 threads and walked off, not that it matters.

This is a hypothetical debate, what happens in the comics happens there, but its impartial judgement.

I could make a list 1 mile long about who beat who, but it wouldn't matter, its all intangibles.

Best to stick to fact, and go by whats presented in who will win.

I never said I barely read comics, I said I wasn't a diehard reader, there's a difference my friend. OWNED!!!

So back to the thread then you lot :roleyes: tut tut

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
So back to the thread then you lot :roleyes: tut tut

Add another "l" there..

Hey whirly I see you changed your name back.

why are you criticizing Marvel? I think they are just as good (or as bad) as D.c. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other.

Whirly please dont take offence at this, but I know you are a superman fan so do you think this might slightly affect your opinion of marvel?

Dont take offence I myself am a fan of Batman, Nightwing, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Deadpool, X-men...........etc,etc

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I'm not really mad, but you just brought it up again. The smilies were a joke, thats all.

You've said it in like 20 threads, now I've asked you questions sure enough, but those were on things that didn't make since to me in a match, or a character I didn't read on, like Phoenix, which I just mentioned in my previous post.

As far as commons sense, I have no problem with that, but its all within the characters abilities, when fanboys bring up stuff like wolverine jumped 30 feet in the air, but they can't explain how, then its bad evidence period.

You did so in the what can wolverine survive thread. We all understood the point, on wolverine's inconsistancies, but you insisted that he was taking damage from harder hitters, than said that was besides the point. You contradicted yourself.

Either that or you go around and say "why do you hate storm" or "why do you hate wolverine".

You did that on 3 threads and walked off, not that it matters.

This is a hypothetical debate, what happens in the comics happens there, but its impartial judgement.

I could make a list 1 mile long about who beat who, but it wouldn't matter, its all intangibles.

Best to stick to fact, and go by whats presented in who will win.

I never said I barely read comics, I said I wasn't a diehard reader, there's a difference my friend.


At the end of the day Marvels character stats by their own admission are far from concrete. That is why a man like wolverine can do what he does in the comics. Or someone like Namor who at the time is stated to be class 85 can lift oil tankers. You can only go by how theyre written in the comics, the bios are just a guide and should be taken as a bare minimum representation of what characters can do. Using a bio and common sense can be sufficient in some cases with some characters however against a cjaracter like wolverine for example who is consistently written beyond what his bio and real world physics says he should be able to do it really doesnt cut it im afraid. That was my point.

Im your friend. When ive said you hate so and so it was clearly in jest it was you who took it to seriously. Even now when that noob asked me for advice which i innocently gave, it was you who leapt for the negative stance on the situation and made it out to be me talking about you behind you're back, belittling you. You over reacted once again CM and instead of addressing me with your issues you got snidey and changed up on me. Thats why i am disappointed. I wouldnt expect that from you.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day Marvels character stats by their own admission are far from concrete. That is why a man like wolverine can do what he does in the comics. Or someone like Namor who at the time is stated to be class 85 can lift oil tankers. You can only go by how theyre written in the comics, the bios are just a guide and should be taken as a bare minimum representation of what characters can do. Using a bio and common sense can be sufficient in some cases with some characters however against a cjaracter like wolverine for example who is consistently written beyond what his bio and real world physics says he should be able to do it really doesnt cut it im afraid. That was my point.

My point is that in a debate, inertia and everything else matters.

In a comic, you'll see things to make a match interesting, like bats getting hit by supes, but you know reason within characters, that wouldn't make sense here.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im your friend. When ive said you hate so and so it was clearly in jest it was you who took it to seriously. Even now when that noob asked me for advice which i innocently gave, it was you who leapt for the negative stance on the situation and made it out to be me talking about you behind you're back, belittling you. You over reacted once again CM and instead of addressing me with your issues you got snidey and changed up on me. Thats why i am disappointed. I wouldnt expect that from you.

What was in jest, I've seen you just many a time, and that didn't look like jesting. Now what your assumptions were I never would've guessed, but the shit smilies weren't a big deal.

I just explained your fallacy to you, the only part that you seem hung on is that pm, forget the pm, you sound like you were serious about it, or you wouldn't keep bringing it up.

Where have I been overreacting?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cordera you admittedly barely read comics so you're hardly in the best position to be making such a comment.

That didn't sound like jesting there...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
That didn't sound like jesting there...

^awww...

poor lil' sensitive cm

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
That didn't sound like jesting there... Why cant you two lovebirds just get along?hug

Can you all stop hijacking this extemely serious thread please.

Marvel right now is about on par with DC so if its lame then DC is lame too

Originally posted by black robb
Marvel right now is about on par with DC so if its lame then DC is lame too


What groundbreaking titles does it have Robb?

Originally posted by Pointinel
^awww...

poor lil' sensitive cm

Please, I've been all over your ass 5 times.

Remember when you logged off?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Please, I've been all over your ass 5 times.

Remember when you logged off? You've been all over his ass 5 times? Man you're setting him up to diss you! I've already made a list of counters for that statement!

Originally posted by black robb
You've been all over his ass 5 times? Man you're setting him up to diss you! I've already made a list of counters for that statement!


He don't want to go there again...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Please, I've been all over your ass 5 times.

Remember when you logged off?

against my will... down low homo nigga

lol @ ROBB THO

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
My point is that in a debate, inertia and everything else matters.

In a comic, you'll see things to make a match interesting, like bats getting hit by supes, but you know reason within characters, that wouldn't make sense here.



What was in jest, I've seen you just many a time, and that didn't look like jesting. Now what your assumptions were I never would've guessed, but the shit smilies weren't a big deal.

I just explained your fallacy to you, the only part that you seem hung on is that pm, forget the pm, you sound like you were serious about it, or you wouldn't keep bringing it up.

Where have I been overreacting?

In a comic debate we talk about how the fight would go if the characters were fighting to the best of their ability within the parameters set by their comic book appearances. For example if wolverine is shown in comics being able to stay conscious and take hits from the hulk and still keep going, then in a debate you cant turn it around and say according to real world this and that and his bio he shouldnt be able to do that. It just doesnt work like that. Despite your personal feelings on the matter.

By your own admission you're not a big comic book reader i remember you saying to me you've only recently started to read comics more than you used to. Therefore i said you're hardly in the best position to make such a comment on marvel comics which is true. I never said you couldnt make an assessment, i never said your comment was invalid. You however over reacted and took a negative stance on that comment saying ive said it many times before, ive been talking behind your back saying it and getting really quite defensive on the issue.

The jest was in saying you hated certain characters. That was obviously a joke because you had just said people keep calling you a hater. It just seems now you've forgotten the context within which i made those comments. Its fortunate that i have not.

Come on guys this was an important thread stop being trolls

Originally posted by willRules
Hey whirly I see you changed your name back.

why are you criticizing Marvel? I think they are just as good (or as bad) as D.c. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other.

Whirly please dont take offence at this, but I know you are a superman fan so do you think this might slightly affect your opinion of marvel?

Dont take offence I myself am a fan of Batman, Nightwing, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Deadpool, X-men...........etc,etc

Originally posted by willRules
Hey whirly I see you changed your name back.

why are you criticizing Marvel? I think they are just as good (or as bad) as D.c. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other.

Whirly please dont take offence at this, but I know you are a superman fan so do you think this might slightly affect your opinion of marvel?

Dont take offence I myself am a fan of Batman, Nightwing, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Deadpool, X-men...........etc,etc


Read the intro we are talking about groundbreaking titles

I read a lot of Marvel just not the ones you mentioned

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In a comic debate we talk about how the fight would go if the characters were fighting to the best of their ability within the parameters set by their comic book appearances. For example if wolverine is shown in comics being able to stay conscious and take hits from the hulk and still keep going, then in a debate you cant turn it around and say according to real world this and that and his bio he shouldnt be able to do that. It just doesnt work like that. Despite your personal feelings on the matter.

By your own admission you're not a big comic book reader i remember you saying to me you've only recently started to read comics more than you used to. Therefore i said you're hardly in the best position to make such a comment on marvel comics which is true. I never said you couldnt make an assessment, i never said your comment was invalid. You however over reacted and took a negative stance on that comment saying ive said it many times before, ive been talking behind your back saying it and getting really quite defensive on the issue.

The jest was in saying you hated certain characters. That was obviously a joke because you had just said people keep calling you a hater. It just seems now you've forgotten the context within which i made those comments. Its fortunate that i have not. Why cant we all just...get along?hug

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In a comic debate we talk about how the fight would go if the characters were fighting to the best of their ability within the parameters set by their comic book appearances. For example if wolverine is shown in comics being able to stay conscious and take hits from the hulk and still keep going, then in a debate you cant turn it around and say according to real world this and that and his bio he shouldnt be able to do that. It just doesnt work like that. Despite your personal feelings on the matter.

Nono, wolverine has been ko'ed by a brushing hit from the hulk, and a light hit from thing, if he takes initial trauma like a human, then there is no reason he shouldn't be knocked out. Why would you even say loki?

Comics do that to stay interesting, batman CAN be killed in one hit from peter, will it happen in a comic. no. The fanboys will be upset.

Also you can't gauge the strenght of those hits, can you say hulk was hitting him at his hardest? Thats what I'm arguing. Wolverine is inconsitant, go by his characteristics.

Did wolvie get an upgrade listed by marvel, no.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By your own admission you're not a big comic book reader i remember you saying to me you've only recently started to read comics more than you used to. Therefore i said you're hardly in the best position to make such a comment on marvel comics which is true. I never said you couldnt make an assessment, i never said your comment was invalid. You however over reacted and took a negative stance on that comment saying ive said it many times before, ive been talking behind your back saying it and getting really quite defensive on the issue.

I said I don't read them diehard man.

I read manga, western, and eastern comics alike, I probably read more stuff than almost anyone around here. I write too, forget what I did or didn't say, its what I'm telling you now. I don't obsess, but then again I read very fast, around 10 pages in a minute from a novel, if I want to.

Thats what I'm telling you now...

I apologize if that comment about what you said in a pm has gotten to you, but make no mistake, you have said it before, I was only joking for the most part. When you said that, it was a shot at my credibility.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The jest was in saying you hated certain characters. That was obviously a joke because you had just said people keep calling you a hater. It just seems now you've forgotten the context within which i made those comments. Its fortunate that i have not.


I said I hated who? I was joking with the smilies dude, if I were REALLY MAD, you would have seen it in my post.

I don't think you intentionally talked bad about me, I'd never think that.

You may have unintentionally raised stir, is my point.

^cosigns robb.

i be rae, you be ghostface robb!

Originally posted by black robb
Why cant we all just...get along?hug


Because its often more fun not to Robb unless it gets out of hand which this could, but I doubt it.

I wont bother to answer it all because this thread needs to get back on topic. Im not mad about anything im just surprised you thought i was talking about you behind your back and instead of asking me about it you just dropped it on me after i questioned you in this thread. That was wrong. But apart from that all the other things about Wolverine and everything else can be dealt with in the versus forum, i really wasnt focusing on those points.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Because its often more fun not to Robb unless it gets out of hand which this could, but I doubt it.

True. I love arguing with you

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I wont bother to answer it all because this thread needs to get back on topic. Im not mad about anything im just surprised you thought i was talking about you behind your back and instead of asking me about it you just dropped it on me after i questioned you in this thread. That was wrong. But apart from that all the other things about Wolverine and everything else can be dealt with in the versus forum, i really wasnt focusing on those points.

Have you been talking about me behind my back GS as well ?




This is all sounding very primary school.



gee I never had friends like you guys

Secret wars, Age of Apocalypse, I'll try to think of some more......

I recently read Batman hush and enjoyed it.


Good comic book titles at the moment in my opinion include Amazing Spider-man, Cable and Deadpool and anything ultimate.

Originally posted by willRules
Secret wars, Age of Apocalypse, I'll try to think of some more......

I recently read Batman hush and enjoyed it.


Good comic book titles at the moment in my opinion include Amazing Spider-man, Cable and Deadpool and anything ultimate.

None of those comics were groundbreaking, sevret wars happened to sell a line of Marvel action figures

Marvels was grouondbreaking
Supreme power, Ultimates etc whilst excellent are derivative and break no new ground.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I wont bother to answer it all because this thread needs to get back on topic. Im not mad about anything im just surprised you thought i was talking about you behind your back and instead of asking me about it you just dropped it on me after i questioned you in this thread. That was wrong. But apart from that all the other things about Wolverine and everything else can be dealt with in the versus forum, i really wasnt focusing on those points.

I didn't think you were, I would never think that, unintentional is the key word here.

age of apocalypse not ground breaking?

you buggin?

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
None of those comics were groundbreaking, sevret wars happened to sell a line of Marvel action figures

Marvels was grouondbreaking
Supreme power, Ultimates etc whilst excellent are derivative and break no new ground.

Define groundbreaking? they were groundbreaking for me but yeah when I found out bout secret wars i also thought it was funny.

Originally posted by Pointinel
against my will... down low homo nigga

lol @ ROBB THO

Did I give you permission to speak?

^now you buggin

Originally posted by Pointinel
^now you buggin

I didn't think so...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I didn't think so... I did think so

cm = wannabe dominatrix

Originally posted by Pointinel
cm = wannabe dominatrix

You are in time out, young lady!!

gotta get lunch, peace to you CM. and to you ROBB even tho you reppin tha BLUE.

peace Everybody.

*harlem shakes off this thread*

what about House of M? then again Ive started likin DC more than Marvel (used to be an Xmen fan, but the only series that has carried my attention other than the whole Ulimate universe were the runaways....tho I want to get into Supreme Power)

Originally posted by Pointinel
gotta get lunch, peace to you CM. and to you ROBB even tho you reppin tha BLUE.

peace Everybody.

*harlem shakes off this thread* Down with my n*gga Pointinel like i'm down with blue...

Originally posted by Pointinel
cm = wannabe dominatrix BR=actual dominatrix

Id say that Dc has had more groundbreaking titles over the last 25 years but i think the general quality across the board for both companies is where Marvel comes out on top. The best title around at the moment is Supreme Power IMO and thats all im reading, although i really like Lucifer as well.

JAK=Big Daddy

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Id say that Dc has had more groundbreaking titles over the last 25 years but i think the general quality across the board for both companies is where Marvel comes out on top. The best title around at the moment is Supreme Power IMO and thats all im reading, although i really like Lucifer as well.

I like more ground based guys, I like atomic, superboy, and robin as a group.

I also like Flash and Supergirl.

I like Lucifer because of all the mysticism and religious imagery. Im really into that stuff which is also why i like Phoenix.

I used to like Alias as well, did anyone read that? Oh and what about that Magik limited series from about 4 years ago. I loved the artwork of that title

Are you religous?

I myself like to go with lower power char, they are more debatable IMO.

No creation arguments :

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Are you religous?

I myself like to go with lower power char, they are more debatable IMO.

No creation arguments :

Well i do believe in God, i try to go church when i can. However im far from devout. I do like street level characters as well. When i was younger i used to by Wolverines series . I dont anymore though. Some of the Marvel titles i get are Uncanny Xmen, Xmen, Ultimate Xmen, Excalibur, Supreme Power, New Avengers and Thor just to name a few. The Dc ones i get are Teen Titans, The Outsiders, Lucifer and ive just started collecting Authority and Preacher. Theres more from both companies but my minds gone blank.

I used to get X-O Manowar as well when i was really young but i stopped for some reason.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well i do believe in God, i try to go church when i can. However im far from devout. I do like street level characters as well. When i was younger i used to by Wolverines series . I dont anymore though. Some of the Marvel titles i get are Uncanny Xmen, Xmen, Ultimate Xmen, Excalibur, Supreme Power, New Avengers and Thor just to name a few. The Dc ones i get are Teen Titans, The Outsiders, Lucifer and ive just started collecting Authority and Preacher. Theres more from both companies but my minds gone blank.

I used to get X-O Manowar as well when i was really young but i stopped for some reason.

I loved the Iron Man and Xo-manowar game.

I do go to church, but some people here make me want to lose my religion.

In the past 25 years for Marvel: Squadron Supreme instantly rings a bell as groundbreaking. It was the first story of superheroes getting too high and mighty and taking over. Was it as good as the later stories of the same ilk? I don't know, maybe not, but it was the first.

Maybe it wasn't really all that groundbreaking, but it did explore a different theme than so many of Marvel's current comics. The first year of Fabian Nicieza's Cable & Deadpool where Cable is, blatantly, a Jesus figure. Most often, writers and creators get kind of scared to parallel Biblical events and characters, and he told a great story.

In my opinion, Peter David and Christopher Priest are the two of the best writers that Marvel has access to, they're using PAD a lot, lately, and I hope to see them give Priest another chance. They expect his books to sell when Marvel sabotages them. His Cap and Falcon was doing great, then they relaunched Cap and decided they wanted to unify the character, and that two headlining books for him would be too much, so they axed Priest's book. If they gave him control of the Avengers, or Spider-Man or the X-Men, it would sell simply because of the brand name, and he would tell some ridiculously awesome stories.

Are David and Priest's stories always ground breaking? No. But they consistently come closer to new and exciting themes than Bendis or Quesada does.

Imo...

Marvel used to be the king... but has fallen drastically in terms of art and writing in a whole lot of cases, especially when it comes to X-Men... Portacio, Jim Lee, Lobdell, Claremont before he went senile, those were the days... now what do we have?

Nowadays we have bendis waving his d*ck around wrecking half the comics he writes in... House of M is a sham imo... if it does one thing right it'll reform the Avengers because Disassembled was a mess imo... and the recent Age of Apocalypse? Terrible imo... Phoenix Endsong... Utterly pointless...

Dc has steadily improved in writng... Identity Crisis, GL Rebirth, Batman's Hush series, Verheidens work on Superman... all top quality imo...and imo has better art than marvel could ever dream of... Michael Turner, Jim Lee, Ed Benes...

There are some decent comics in marvel nowadays(that ive read), with Whedons Astonishing X-Men and anything containing Deadpool being personal favourites... New Invaders also showed alot of promise...

I think Marvel has gone the way of believing the hype about Wolverine... and thats a shame... there are so many great characters who when written properly could be stunning...

if marvel was lame why would they be the one coming out with all the
new games and movies???
and dc doesnt have cartoon series as much as marvel
silver surfer, iron man, fanstastic four, hulk, so many spider man, x men
, and so on....

and marvel video game are so much better then dc video game..
wait is there even a dc game?? except superman and batman???

true....I don't remember playing a flash videogame...Marvel killing them I mean Xmen legends, Spiderman 2 movie game are exceptional.

Marvel is more commercial, and has a bigger fanbase...

and the Batman Begins game was a rather good game...

The Hulk game was average at best, and Fantastic Four was just a more poilshed version of X-Men Legends... Spidey 2 only had one good aspect, which was the web slinging... other than that it was nothing special...

As for cartoons...

Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Batman, The Batman and Supeman... thats not too shabby...

I remember back in the day....mid 90's to be exact marvel had Xmen, Spiderman, FF, Hulk and Iron Man cartoons are were making new episodes...now they don't have jack....that's the only area DC killing at...the toon department.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I was PMed by a noob poster who said that me and you seem to be good friends on here and that you seem to be a good debator, so what do i think would be the best way of taking you down. I told them to read a variety of comics and keep on their current events becasue you through your own admission barely read comics. Wheres the malice in that?

Damn, the same guy posted me...

Originally posted by Mainstream
I remember back in the day....mid 90's to be exact marvel had Xmen, Spiderman, FF, Hulk and Iron Man cartoons are were making new episodes...now they don't have jack....that's the only area DC killing at...the toon department.

And the COMICS...

perhaps...for now.

and the video games

marvel is coming out with

marvel nemesis
ultimate spider man
incredible hulk2
marvel mmorpg
x men legend 2

what the hell is marvel mmorpg?

i dont see dc coming out with any shhhhhhhhhhhh***********tttttttt

Originally posted by jacobo0o
and the video games

marvel is coming out with

marvel nemesis
ultimate spider man
incredible hulk2
marvel mmorpg
x men legend 2

marvel nemesis - might be good...
ultimate spider man - ditto...
incredible hulk2 - i dont expect it to be much different than the last one...
marvel mmorpg - could be good, could be shit...
x men legend 2 - x-men legends 1 with shiny new addons...

Still...

this is about comics... not about games...

if marvel pumped their money into comics rather than whoring their products onto every conceivable medium they could do well...

so basically marvel more "mainstream" got their hands in so much stuff that their comics are become less than amazing.

Originally posted by Mainstream
so basically marvel more "mainstream" got their hands in so much stuff that their comics are become less than amazing.

Pretty much...

damn...I was hoping you'd disagree with me!

Originally posted by Mainstream
damn...I was hoping you'd disagree with me!

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I like a lot of Marvel comics on face value, but where are the classics from Marvel, the comics that are groundbreaking?
Have they existed in the last 25 years apart from Marvels?

DC have had Sandman, Hellblazer, Swampthing, Watchman, Kingdom Come etc

DC as Wildstorm has had the Authority.

Marvel has had Marvels.


I ask you are Marvel the Mcdonalds of Comic Companies? Is it always the same everywhere?

Prove me wrong!

You've outdone yourself.

Lol. The nerve

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
hang on a minute guys, whats immature about this

hahahahahahahah

Originally posted by pr1983

marvel mmorpg - could be good, could be shit...


Have you read Runaways #1? If the MMORPG would be anything like the one in that, it would rule.

What about Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. It is going to rule, I think.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Have you read Runaways #1? If the MMORPG would be anything like the one in that, it would rule.

What about Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. It is going to rule, I think.

i have it somewhere i think... ill have a look...

it could, but it could end up like the movie game too...

Whirly: Yes, DC has had Watchmen and Kingdom Come, but where did the inspiration for those stories come from, where did the archetype of those stories come from? Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme maxi series.

Marvel still publishes a number of great titles, but that hack Bendis still gets the numbers, and therefore the media exposure. Captain America and Young Avengers far surpasses anything I've seen from Benids the past year or so. Heinberg has said how much of a Bendis fan he is, but the first major thing he does, after assembling the Young Avengers, is bringing back the Vision, which kind of spits in the face of Avengers: Disassembled--which I was really glad to see. That is, Vision coming back, not Avengers Disassembled. Disassembled was crap.

Originally posted by pr1983
i have it somewhere i think... ill have a look...

it could, but it could end up like the movie game too...

Well, Hulk: UD is basically similar to Spider-Man ". Free roaming as Hulk...watch the trailers.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, Hulk: UD is basically similar to Spider-Man ". Free roaming as Hulk...watch the trailers.

i have...

DC have done it again I read Justice this morning Alex Ross's new masterpeice. It is the sleeping Classic we have all been reading, Infinite crisis, Ultimates, Ultimate secret, house of M etc. This is this years classic trust me. Millers Batman and Robin is very cool as well.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
In the past 25 years for Marvel: Squadron Supreme instantly rings a bell as groundbreaking. It was the first story of superheroes getting too high and mighty and taking over. Was it as good as the later stories of the same ilk? I don't know, maybe not, but it was the first.

Maybe it wasn't really all that groundbreaking, but it did explore a different theme than so many of Marvel's current comics. The first year of Fabian Nicieza's Cable & Deadpool where Cable is, blatantly, a Jesus figure. Most often, writers and creators get kind of scared to parallel Biblical events and characters, and he told a great story.

In my opinion, Peter David and Christopher Priest are the two of the best writers that Marvel has access to, they're using PAD a lot, lately, and I hope to see them give Priest another chance. They expect his books to sell when Marvel sabotages them. His Cap and Falcon was doing great, then they relaunched Cap and decided they wanted to unify the character, and that two headlining books for him would be too much, so they axed Priest's book. If they gave him control of the Avengers, or Spider-Man or the X-Men, it would sell simply because of the brand name, and he would tell some ridiculously awesome stories.

Are David and Priest's stories always ground breaking? No. But they consistently come closer to new and exciting themes than Bendis or Quesada does.


Squadrn Supreme was but, Miracleman, as Marvel man in the first story Arc proceeded this just But then Moore did the totalitarian bit with Ozzy M in Watchmen two years after Squadron Supreme, Moore did it better

Originally posted by yahman
hahahahahahahah

thank you my friend

Moore did it better, but he didn't do it first. That's my point. You wanted groundbreaking, not necessarily the best quality.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Moore did it better, but he didn't do it first. That's my point. You wanted groundbreaking, not necessarily the best quality.

No I take and accept your point, I think ultimates are reasonably groundbreaking now. 616 Universe needs to die imo.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
That didn't sound like jesting there...

it DID however sound honest and sincere....

Originally posted by jinzin
it DID however sound honest and sincere....

Did I give you permission to log on, you need to get some bitterness out of you...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In a comic debate we talk about how the fight would go if the characters were fighting to the best of their ability within the parameters set by their comic book appearances. For example if wolverine is shown in comics being able to stay conscious and take hits from the hulk and still keep going, then in a debate you cant turn it around and say according to real world this and that and his bio he shouldnt be able to do that. It just doesnt work like that. Despite your personal feelings on the matter.

By your own admission you're not a big comic book reader i remember you saying to me you've only recently started to read comics more than you used to. Therefore i said you're hardly in the best position to make such a comment on marvel comics which is true. I never said you couldnt make an assessment, i never said your comment was invalid. You however over reacted and took a negative stance on that comment saying ive said it many times before, ive been talking behind your back saying it and getting really quite defensive on the issue.

The jest was in saying you hated certain characters. That was obviously a joke because you had just said people keep calling you a hater. It just seems now you've forgotten the context within which i made those comments. Its fortunate that i have not.

It's has I've said a hundred times...he can't follow trains of thought.....I KNEW IT....I knew it wasn't just me.....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Did I give you permission to log on, you need to get some bitterness out of you...


when I need permission from a miscreant to do anything...i'll come to you...untill then....BEGONE!

Originally posted by jinzin
when I need permission from a miscreant to do anything...i'll come to you...untill then....BEGONE!

I didn't think so, nor did I give you permission to respond, outstepping your boundaries boy.

Originally posted by jinzin
It's has I've said a hundred times...he can't follow trains of thought.....I KNEW IT....I knew it wasn't just me.....

You can't spell and you are a fanboy, your crediblity is ruined.

Here's jinzin's cousin...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357622&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

Notice the badspelling, and the fanboyishness...

Unmistakeable...

Thats not Jinzin

Its his cousin....

WOT DIS THREAD BE UBOUT?

Alright, I wasn't sure if I'd communicated my point.

I like 616 more than Ultimate. I like the Ultimate stuff a lot, but 616 has the history and all the dark, forgotten, obscure nooks and crannies. I like the obscurities it has hidden, and all the over the top stuff it can do, and that it has done. It has history, which makes it easier to tell the stories, in my opinion. The reason people don't like 616 is they don't focus on the totality of it. They focus on Spider-Man, Wolverine and a few others. I know that's an old argument, and they are good characters, up to a point, but there are so many others they could use, which is why I love Busiek and Nicieza's work, they use the entire 616 universe.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Alright, I wasn't sure if I'd communicated my point.

I like 616 more than Ultimate. I like the Ultimate stuff a lot, but 616 has the history and all the dark, forgotten, obscure nooks and crannies. I like the obscurities it has hidden, and all the over the top stuff it can do, and that it has done. It has history, which makes it easier to tell the stories, in my opinion. The reason people don't like 616 is they don't focus on the totality of it. They focus on Spider-Man, Wolverine and a few others. I know that's an old argument, and they are good characters, up to a point, but there are so many others they could use, which is why I love Busiek and Nicieza's work, they use the entire 616 universe.

I understand the history point I read my first Marvels in about 1974 - 1975. I feel though the nooks and crannies are now the problem continuity is shot to shit. 616 needs a crisis if its to live the baggage of the last 40+ years makes it very incoherent imo. I take your point about totality yet I feel that totality often lends itself to camp, caricature and parody of its previous greatness. /you only have to look at the Xmen to see this.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I didn't think so, nor did I give you permission to respond, outstepping your boundaries boy.

boy? you're younger than I am....kid....

Originally posted by jinzin
boy? you're younger than I am....kid....

Apart from Leo and Evil cap and about 2-3 others your all kids even those of you with kids of your own like C17, Sentry and Longpig

Originally posted by jinzin
boy? you're younger than I am....kid....

So you are gettin smacked around by a kid?
lol, 16 is you...

Now admit that you are luffyjin, multiple accounts are a serious crime.

Pretty much, only the Uncanny X-Men book sucks these days. Astonishing is great, although this past "oh no the danger room is alive" arc isn't that good. Milligan's is interesting, somewhat overdramatic at times, but if you suspend disbelief, it works. Uncanny is a pile of stagnant crap, because Claremont doesn't know what to do anymore. He's told all of his stories.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Apart from Leo and Evil cap and about 2-3 others your all kids even those of you with kids of your own like C17, Sentry and Longpig

How old was Evilcap, where did he go?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
So you are gettin smacked around by a kid?
lol, 16 is you...

Now admit that you are luffyjin, multiple accounts are a serious crime.

well I would be if I were gettin smacked around.....too bad that's not within your capabilities to do...

Originally posted by jinzin
well I would be if I were gettin smacked around.....too bad that's not within your capabilities to do...

Please you typing exercise, I just got you in the game versus forum, you just admitted it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357622&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

Here it is once again....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
How old was Evilcap, where did he go?

35 I don't know where he went he was a good guy.

Where is C17 talking of vanishing is he socking again

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
35 I don't know where he went he was a good guy.

Where is C17 talking of vanishing is he socking again

I loved evilcap, so funny!

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Please you typing exercise, I just got you in the game versus forum, you just admitted it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357622&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

Here it is once again....

you are deficient.....

Originally posted by jinzin
you are deficient.....

Its you man, stop the reverse psychology, you know its you, who else could it be?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357622&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

someone else...

Its someone else imo

Originally posted by jinzin
someone else...

You said it was you, why are you lying?

that was a joke..there is a difference....why are you accusing without proof?

Originally posted by jinzin
that was a joke..there is a difference....why are you accusing without proof?

It must be you lol, its obvious, you're caught!!
Admit it again!!!

you are quite possibly the most annoying person I've ever met.....without actually meeting....

Originally posted by jinzin
you are quite possibly the most annoying person I've ever met.....without actually meeting....

Hey, I can piss people off, but you deserve it for bringing up dirt on me, just admit its you man, I want to help your problem.

you're not pising me off.....just being annoying......

and.........






bringin up dirt on you? wtf?

Originally posted by jinzin
you're not pising me off.....just being annoying......

and.........






bringin up dirt on you? wtf?


Its what you just did, or tried to do.

"pising you off" lol.

I'm done playing with you for today.

how?

.

Originally posted by Logan 87
.

wow, thats deep

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
CM if you've heard ive been saying something then confront me directly do not resort to immature smilies and snidey comments. I expect better of you.

You said to me that you barely read comics simple as. On many of the threads ive been on with you, you have asked me or others to explain comic events or characters powers which are otherwise common knowledge on theses forums to those who read comic books. Therefore it is understandable that i would question your comic book knowledge because ive seen a lack of it in threads. Theres a difference between common sense and comic book knowledge. To your credit you posess the former in abundance, however from what ive seen you still need to work on the latter.

I have not been talking about you negatively behind your back. As a friend on here i would have hoped you would have thought better of me and taken up the issue with me directly as an adult should. I was PMed by a noob poster who said that me and you seem to be good friends on here and that you seem to be a good debator, so what do i think would be the best way of taking you down. I told them to read a variety of comics and keep on their current events becasue you through your own admission barely read comics. Wheres the malice in that?

This now explains you're snidey comments. I would have expected you of all people to take it up with me like an adult. Im disappointed CM.

You however have brought to my attention that this noob poster has been sh*t stirring as it were. I will rectify that situation by taking it up with them in a manner befitting of the adult i am. You really aren't familiar with CM are you?

The Poll is too Partial... and Not Fair.

Originally posted by Jury
The Poll is too Partial... and Not Fair.

Well duh!

Originally posted by Creshosk
You really aren't familiar with CM are you?

What are you attempting to explain something?

Originally posted by jinzin
how?

Go to sleep now...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
What are you attempting to explain something? Smart ass remarks are part of who you are.

Damn, can't remember the line from raphael from the third movie. . .

Something about being sarcastic is part of his nature. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Smart ass remarks are part of who you are.

Damn, can't remember the line from raphael from the third movie. . .

Something about being sarcastic is part of his nature. . .

and then?

Did you read the whole thread, do you know the whole story, because GS is smartassish to, not to mention a SHITLOAD of people here.

Guys, please, quit it...

There's no need for this...

I'll quit if they stop digging up old shit from the beginning of the thread...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I'll quit if they stop digging up old shit from the beginning of the thread...

You could just ignore them... would be alot better...

You all need to stop being whiney little girls. Stop dancing around the point and call eachouther douchebags like real men.

BTW Marvel doesn't have any real groundbreaking work, the only stuff they have like that is Surfer/Thanos/Cosmic related stuff. Those are usually pretty good. But other than that, it's really all just the same shit over and over and over again. Not that it's bad, it's just not groundbreaking. Marvel has the 'Cool' factor.

Agreed, Marvel is cool characters, DC is better writing...

No more pimping deadpool?

Back to Nataku.

I don't think Marvel is lame.

However, it isn't <sarcasm> "Cool and Indie!" </sarcasm> either.

lol, Marvel is VERY entertaining, its just some things have dropped writing wise...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
and then?

Did you read the whole thread, do you know the whole story, because GS is smartassish to, not to mention a SHITLOAD of people here. You don't like Raphael?

I'm not insulting you, bro.

You're a smartass, it's just part of what makes you who you are. This isn't a bad thing because you have to have a quick wit in order to pick up on the situation enough to be sarcastic about it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't like Raphael?

I'm not insulting you, bro.

You're a smartass, it's just part of what makes you who you are. This isn't a bad thing because you have to have a quick wit in order to pick up on the situation enough to be sarcastic about it.

I love raphael...

DC Is lame Marvel Rules

I think the thread creator is lame for making thread like this.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I think the thread creator is lame for making thread like this.

I agree

Marvel's never been able to get an imprint like DC's Vertigo or Wildstorm comics going. But it's not for lack of effort or talent on the part of their creative stable. (Powers, Marvels, Earth X and its sequels, are all great works of comic literature.)

I'd say the problem is that DC cornered that particular niche market with Swamp thing and Sandman before Marvel ever had the idea. So now Marvel can't seriously break into the "mature comics" world.

Yes, yes Marvel is.

Why do you all get so heated over this. I get the feeling that a lot of you base way too much of your life around comic books. Why is that even bad in the first place? Comics are fiction. Simple. I can see why you would debate a what if scenario or even the quality of a story or a writer or artists etc etc. However, when you get to the point where you get mad based off of what two companies do then you need to re examine your life bc that is unhealthy. Although I see a lot of your points about needing character and plot consistency for sake of story telling, but when you guys talk about the never useless stuff i.e Wolverine feats its completely pointless. You really don't have anything to say about the validity of what writers do with characters or plots simply because marvel and dc own their characters, they commission writers and artists to interpret them in a story. wolverine, hulk, batman, superman, gl, are not supposed to be any way because they are fictional ideas whose base nature is to be subject to interpretations from various peoples.I just find this neccessary to say because you guys waste so much energy debating points that are too trivial for debate. If you don't like how someone interprets a character or writes a story then don't support. But it is an exercise in futility to say how companies can or cannot use their characters. They own them you do not. Do not get me wrong I love comic books. They can have some wonderful things to say, and truly make people think. I realize though, that it is fiction and all history that is fiction or even factual for that matter is subject to reinterpretation or retconning or what ever.