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This should be a good match.

i'll say conan

Conan the barbarian?

Did anyone read the What If? Conan kills Wolvie in there first encounter, Wolvie comes back to life and cuts Conan's hand off, but It's still a Conan victory.

conan kicks major league @$$...

Does he have a magic sword. . or armor or something?

I'm still not sure how conan could pull it off . . .

Conan had a nigh-unbreakable blade and when he swung at Wolverine's neck, after out-maneuvering (sp?) him, it dislogded one of his vertebre...viola a broken neck. It took Wolverine quite a while to recover from it and in the meantime he suffered quite a bit of brain damage.

Hmmm...I'll give it to Wolverine 6-7/10.

That's assuming Conan has the nigh-unbreakable blade, if he doesn't Wolverine wins 9/10.

His healing factor is the key. Conan can hack him up, but he'll heal. Conan's only hope is decapitation/dismemberment, and he's going up against someone with whome he's evenly matched so he'd have to get pretty lucky.

Bottome line: Logan can afford to make some mistakes in this fight, but Conan can't.

Originally posted by lft4ded
Conan had a nigh-unbreakable blade and when he swung at Wolverine's neck, after out-maneuvering (sp?) him, it dislogded one of his vertebre...viola a broken neck. It took Wolverine quite a while to recover from it and in the meantime he suffered quite a bit of brain damage. What if's are not canon. . .but aside from that

That sword had to be magic in order to break Adamantium. . . and for the adamantium to not be able to cut it.


Originally posted by DrDoom
Conan's only hope is decapitation/dismemberment,

Originally posted by Creshosk
In Wolverine: Snikt! his right arm was burned so badly only his adamantium bones remained; guess what? They were still linked together. Wolverine was still able to use his arm (even though he had to hold it with his left hand). If there is cartilage between his bones that can be severed, than it can also be burned away, and obviously thats not the case.

What about New X-Men, E is for Extinction? Nova burned off all the flesh on his right arm, and guess what? the arm bones were still linked together. They didn't collapse or fall off, which is what they would have done had there been connecting ligaments and cartilage.

How about Miller's Wolverine? When Shingen and Logan fight, Shingen aims a sword stroke at Logans' neck; I've been informed that it was later explained (whether by Miller or Claremont, I don't know) that it was an attack that was meant to sever Wolverine's head, by cutting inbetween the connecting bones; but since Wolverine's adamantium reinforces and links those bones, it couldn't cut through.

And lets not forget Blood Hungry.


Or in days of the future past when the Sentinal blasted wolverine leaving behind an adamantium skeleton that was in one piece.

Originally posted by Creshosk
What if's are not canon. . .but aside from that

That sword had to be magic in order to break Adamantium. . . and for the adamantium to not be able to cut it.



Since the 'What If' is still referenced...the sword didn't damage any of Wolverine's bones in any way. It just dislocated one of them.

Good point about the skeleton holding together. Perhaps there are adamantium filaments? The linking material is how Scott blew his hand off in AOA, since that's going through its anniversary currently.

What can be said? Comic book physics!

There was no magic blade, no breaking or dislocating of bones, he simply cut everything that was important in the back of the neck. Both are equal fighters but Conan was stronger and faster.

Why aren't What Ifs considered at least semi canon?

They are there to show how things would really happen if sales and popularity didn't play a role in how events happen.

I've always let What Ifs be allowed into a debate....it's the only clear way to ever see someone be beaten handily.

Well I think it's because of the obvious crap that comes out in some. Like Punisher killing everyone, and Aunt May saving the world. But I've always liked what If's, I think some of them give a very fair comparison of characters. To allow them, we'd have to have widespread knowledge of them so we knew which to dismiss and which to count.

they make wolverine look too good sometimes....so they obviously cannot be used...

that's what I'm saying, it's on an issue by issue basis. Like Wolvie vs. Weap X was good. Conan vs. Wolvie was good. Conan's fight with Cap was great. And then there's some serious crap like Jane foster being Thor and What If monkey flew out of Prof. X's ass. I thought the Watcher was suppose to be intellegent, but he's come up with some serious crap.

i guess the crap is what happens when he just runs out of ideas....

Hey, if you have been alive since the beginning of the Universe and watched different realities...you would start to get bored soon.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hey, if you have been alive since the beginning of the Universe and watched different realities...you would start to get bored soon.

Nah, see, he's got such an advanced mind, that he's suppose to be able to accuratley ponder countless possibilities. But then some crap wrtier gets on the job, doesn't realize that he's writing from the point of view of the watcher (even though he surely has to) and then goes off and thinks what he's writing is actually funny or intellegent.

You really think he's bored? He's got 24 hour ultra digital satelite feed or some crap, he gets to watch absolultley anything he wants (the perv) and has no restricted channels whatsoever. He's the ultimate coach patato.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Nah, see, he's got such an advanced mind, that he's suppose to be able to accuratley ponder countless possibilities. But then some crap wrtier gets on the job, doesn't realize that he's writing from the point of view of the watcher (even though he surely has to) and then goes off and thinks what he's writing is actually funny or intellegent.

You really think he's bored? He's got 24 hour ultra digital satelite feed or some crap, he gets to watch absolultley anything he wants (the perv) and has no restricted channels whatsoever. He's the ultimate coach patato.

never thought of it like that....guess who my new hero is...lol...

Originally posted by jinzin
never thought of it like that....guess who my new hero is...lol...

hahahhahhaah, yeah that bastard's living the life alright.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS


You really think he's bored? He's got 24 hour ultra digital satelite feed or some crap, he gets to watch absolultley anything he wants (the perv)

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2005/pvp20050131.gif
http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2005/pvp20050201.gif

By Crom!

I think that with out his healing factor the odds would be close to even for either with a slight edge to Conan but with his healing factor Logan should be winning around 8 out of 10.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
By Crom!

I think that with out his healing factor the odds would be close to even for either with a slight edge to Conan but with his healing factor Logan should be winning around 8 out of 10.
Yeah I agree. They are both great fighters (Conan is awesome) but then again, so is Wolverine. Thanks to his mutant abilities and his skeleton, Logan should win.

Conan wins it, and I shall tell you why.

The general consensus of why Wolverine would win seems to be that his claws and adamantium give him the edge. I disagree. Often times when people factor in Wolverine's healing factor they assume everything is healed instantly. This is not the case. When Wolverine will get hit with the sword, he is going to hurt. Also, remember this is Conan we are talking about, not spiderman or the Hulk. Conan will not "clobber" Wolverine, Conan swings a sword and he routinely swings it to KILL people. He is a much deadly fighter. A chop to the neck or gut will KO Wolverine just from the amount of trauma he would have to heal. His healing factor will stop him from being dead, but Wolverine would get the loss. His healing factor is countered by the large trauma that Conan can deal with a sword to the face. The Adamantium skeleton can be countered with the fact that Conan doesnt need to break Wolvies bones to get a win. So they are more evenly matched. So what it comes down to is Conan, an extremely skilled barbarian warrior with a big sword, who routinely kills people in battle, vs Wolverine, a short canadian with claws and fanboys, who despite talking a bunch of crap, only once in a blue moon manages to get a kill with his claws.

I think Conan can get a win.

You mean like how Shingen chopped of wolverines head . . oh wait no he didn't because he couldn't slice through the vertebrae. . .

I guess wolverine bled to death because it takes him along time to. . .

No wait, he healed up right after that. . . and the other times when wolverine has been burned and heals back to normal in a few frames.

Originally posted by long pig
Why aren't What Ifs considered at least semi canon? Don't know, it's in the rules though. . . but if people actually let them in . . I guess it can be counted.

Though I'm still curious as that was an issue I missed, how did Conan's non magical sword stand up to the adamantium like it did?

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Conan wins it, and I shall tell you why.

The general consensus of why Wolverine would win seems to be that his claws and adamantium give him the edge. I disagree. Often times when people factor in Wolverine's healing factor they assume everything is healed instantly. This is not the case. When Wolverine will get hit with the sword, he is going to hurt. Also, remember this is Conan we are talking about, not spiderman or the Hulk. Conan will not "clobber" Wolverine, Conan swings a sword and he routinely swings it to KILL people. He is a much deadly fighter. A chop to the neck or gut will KO Wolverine just from the amount of trauma he would have to heal. His healing factor will stop him from being dead, but Wolverine would get the loss. His healing factor is countered by the large trauma that Conan can deal with a sword to the face. The Adamantium skeleton can be countered with the fact that Conan doesnt need to break Wolvies bones to get a win. So they are more evenly matched. So what it comes down to is Conan, an extremely skilled barbarian warrior with a big sword, who routinely kills people in battle, vs Wolverine, a short canadian with claws and fanboys, who despite talking a bunch of crap, only once in a blue moon manages to get a kill with his claws.

I think Conan can get a win.

no offense but you are insane..and I shall tell you why...

you seem to think that conan will beat logan because he.................................................................. swings a sword with the intention to kill............?



sorry to say but that's truly an unconvincing argument....really....

are you not aware that wolverine regularly faces up against oponents who are easily conans physical superiors with equal fighting ability..and weapons that are fully capable of applying more peircing and slicing damage than just one sword?

as creshosck already brought up...wolverine went toe to toe with shingen....shingen was a master swordsmen....I know conan's impressive skills...but he is in no way as honed and tempored as shingen was...guess how shingen faired out..... (you won't find any shingen limited series coming out anytime soon i can tell you that)....

you only further soil your argument...by insulting the character of wolverine and his fans....wolverine doesn't kill many established comic book characters because most of his rogues have a healing factor..or he loses 95% of his fighting ability (namely the ability to punch) when fighting well established people..funny how as soon as he's up against someone easily expendable or someone with a healing factor..he had no problem making contact whatsoever huh?

You seem to think wolverine rarely kills anyone..but that's simply not true...obviously you know little about him.....for instance are you aware he just downed nearly 2 thousand members of the hand? and hundreds upon hundreds of super villains? probably not..but then again that's most likely the reason why your argument's so weak....

conan would put up a good fight...hell he'd put up a great fight..but ultimately...he'll lose....

Let me clarify arguments, all fanboy bashing and stuff aside.

One of the biggest problems in this matchup is guaging the fighting power of Conan. There is no common ground to compare the two seperatly, I dont think Conan is listed in the handbook. You can say that Shingen is Conan's better, but we dont have anything to compare it with, at least to my knowledge. Conan could be better or worse, or equal. For sake of my argument, Im saying he is better, since Conan is the best in his universe.

Now whats interesting is that there actually is a common ground to compare these two combatants, since they have fought in a comic entitled "What if Conan battled Wolverine" which I personally think is pretty relevant to this discussion, since it is after all what we are discussing here. In this comic Wolverine suffered a broken neck and had to sit out of the fight for a while and heal. In regards to a battle, at least in my opinion, rendering an opponent unable to battle for an amount of time is a win. Wolverine came back later and did some damage, but like a round 2. Im not sure how that battle ended up, and I havnt found any scans or a complete plot synopsis for it. I dont understand why some people say that What Ifs dont count because they are real comics that answer the same questions that are posed. Doesnt make much sense to ask "What if Conan fought Wolverine" and when someone whips out a book entitled "What if Conan fought Wolverine" and you say "That doesnt count" seems to not be really logical. Its like "bad writing" arguments, which is another problem for Wolverine discussion since hes been shown to heal instantly, while also being shown to heal slowly. Remember in Fatal Attractions, when he was just about DEAD. He was walking into the light. Jean called him back telekintcally. Why didnt he heal instantly there? Was was overloaded? So Wolverine cant instantly heal everything? If it was really that strong, then it probably would have bounced back eventually, Wolverine wouldnt have been walking into the light and all that stuff? Bad Writing? Fatal Attractions is bad writing? Now, Im not saying Conan can do damage equal to ripping adamantium off his bones, Im saying that Wolverine's healing factor is far from consistent.

Anyway, back on topic. When i said he swings with intentions to kill, I wasnt trying to say that he wins just because he wants to kill, I was trying to point out the damage a Conan Sword can do. Its just as deadly as Wolverines' claws, I dare say moreso since its heavier, and can get alot of cincrifical force behind it. Like hitting a baseball with a bat, (Conan) vs hitting it with three peices of metal ducttaped to your wrist (wolverine) Conan can do more damage per hit is all Im saying. Im not saying Wolverine couldnt kill him with a well placed SNIKT but if Wolverine gets hit by a Conan sword hes gonna go down. He could dislodge a vertebrea or puncture a joint capsule or ruin Wolverine's day. Again, nothing that Wolverine couldnt do to him, but the point is Conan can do damage to Wolverine, enough to possibly get a win.

So, Conan has a chance. Now lets look at why I think Conan can win.

If Conan = Wolverine in skill, and Conan can damage Wolverine with a blow, then whats left to look at is the actual weapons and fight.

Conan has a magical nigh unbreakable weapon. Ill assume that this equals adamantium. So there is no cutting of weapons here. If Conan and Wolverine are equals in their fighting ablility, being the best at what each of them does, then Conan has the advantage, because a sword is technically superior weapon than claws. I know Wolverine has fought people with swords before, but that by no means signifies that Wolverine can beat ANYONE with a sword, we are talking about Conan. The sword just has the reach advantage Wolverine has to come through it to get close. Its entirely possible for Wolverine to do it, but remember Im assuming that Conan and Wolverine are EQUALS in skill regarding there styles of combat. Conan is a "master" at his swordplay, Wolverine is a "master" at his claws. Conan has the advantage of the more advantagous weapon. Now, wolverine could in theory wear down Conan since he has no healing factor, but with the damage threat of Conan's huge honking sword, Conan can dish out enough damage in a stroke to put enough of a hurting on Wolverine that Conan could land another stroke. I actually kind of see the fight playing out the way it did in "What if..." Conan ends up breaking his neck or leaving his sword stuck in him or something, after a close fight.

Wolverine

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Conan has a magical nigh unbreakable weapon. Thank you. That's what erases the doubt from my mind.

From what it sounded like before it was a regular sword forged of something like titanium (which in Conan's universe wouldn't be able to be broken by traditional steel since it's a much stronger metal.)

Onikirimaru, you defend Conan very well, but you forget that Wolverine is as tough as they come (probably tougher than Conan), as fast and as strong as Conan and at least as good a fighter as Conan.

Throw in his unbreakable skeleton, his heightened senses and his six unbreakable claws (all things Conan does not have), and I think we have a winner.

I hate myself for saying this, cuz Conan is one of my favorite underestimated characters, but in the end, as cool as he may be, he is just a big muscled warrior with good skills and a big knife (and a cool attitude and a great catchphrase - By Crom !).

Nothing Wolverine hasn't faced before.

Wolverine...

Originally posted by who?-kid
Onikirimaru, you defend Conan very well, but you forget that Wolverine is as tough as they come (probably tougher than Conan), as fast and as strong as Conan and at least as good a fighter as Conan.



Thanks, and he is a big underdog in the fight, which is why I defended him. I know Im not about to change anyone's minds, but I just like to play the devils advocate y'know.

firstly only the classic conan from back in the day, when all his comics were published in black and white. after he became the barbarian king did he start to use any mystical objects or artifacts(nigh invulnerable, shield, sword, and helmet etc....) but all in all conan is a bad ass dude man....i been reading his current monthly's and that guy is awesome.

i mean he's from a warrior race and all and war combat is his thing. this is a guy who doesnt have any special powers other than honing his natural skills to peak human levels, and who regularily takes on mythical ferocious creatures..like dragon thingies,,, and dungeon dwelling snarling beasts..and oh he once gutted a frost giant(about 15-20 feet tall) after he was already battle weary, and traveling thru the snow for days without food and water.

Also, i forgot the name of the place but he was searching for this land that was esentially the equivalent to shangri-la, a paradise if you will, and it turned out that it was just a story the ppl(celestials) who lived there made up to attract ppl in order to get more slaves, anyhooo whenever they captured ppl they mutated some of them into these hulking mind controlled, 8 foot tall bastiches who could punch thru solid rock and the hole nine, and conan took on a bunch at once, killed one or two and drove the rest off. so as you can see when it comes to Conan, wu-tang clan aint nothing to f **** with.


Sure logan's healing factor might trump all that but whether canon or not, if a good writer gets on the case he'll have conan giving a good showing, even tho logically speaking logans healing might win out. but as was said b4 only logans bones are unbreakble not the cartilage in between, so one precision strike or two can easily take off a hand or knee at the joints, or even logans head for tha matter

Originally posted by manjaro
but as was said b4 only logans bones are unbreakble not the cartilage in between, so one precision strike or two can easily take off a hand or knee at the joints, or even logans head for tha matter Not true, as I've pointed out, anything that can be burned away or sliced by shingen, would have been.

Since it wasn't, then it can't.

ok creshok ididnt quite undestand that but wolverines cartilage is not unbreakble,, sure it would heal if left alone long enuff but if it were his hand wouldnt have been severed in AoA. if conan swings his mighty sword and aim for the joint, one of two things either its gonna get chopped off in one strike or its gonna damage him enuff to put him down so that Conan can hack him up some more. what ppl fail to realize is that his healing factor isnt like sinister's where he heals almost intantaneously, or any body else that has molecular control.

frank castle shot him in the stomach with a rocket luancher once and it took the whole entire day for him to heal back up, the same thing in that venom series when he got hit with the nuke, it was a whole day affair. not that im saying that conan chopping him between the vertbrae would take all day but the only wounds wolvie heals instantly from are supeficial slashes like when x-23 pulled a Guile Street fighter move and gave him a flash kick with her toe claw, and the errant knife slash or gunshot wound or two. but a deep gash between his joints is gonna put him down enuff to take more punsihment. besides wolvie just heals fast he's not invulnerable, and he doesnt exactly have an extraordinarliy high level resistance to injury. he hurts just like every body esle, so im thinking that if he gets a huge whack across the chest from a ginormous sword or axe or something he's not just gonna brush it off as if it were nothing he'll be writhing in pain and shit til he heals.... so Conan can take it

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Wolverine...

shame on you...

Originally posted by manjaro
ok creshok ididnt quite undestand that but wolverines cartilage is not unbreakble,, sure it would heal if left alone long enuff but if it were his hand wouldnt have been severed in AoA. AoA is not 616.

in 616 there have been several times when we see his skeleton in one piece where it would fall apart if you were correct.

conan could slip the sword in between wolvies ribs right into his heart or lungs. i'm guessing that would ruin wolvies day. still even more than the healing factor is the berserker in wolvie - that's what beat conan ultimately in the what if. this is a great match, i's say wolvie 7/10 because of healing and berserker.

Well, when it's a character who is physically superior to one that is a significanlty better fighter, I usually go for the better fighter (to some extent.) But in this case both are equal fighters, but Conan is stronger and faster. He's likely to hit first and more often.

He doesn't have to break bone to incapacitate Wolvie, what if he eviscerates him, that's a win plain and simple.

this is ridciculous.....CONAN WILL NOT DISLOCATE OR BREAK ANYTHING....I haven't read the issue myself...mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones.....you conan supporters think that conan did indeed break his neck...does anyone have pics? or proof? (i'm genuinely curious.....).... anyways...assuming he did break logans neck...do you know why that happened in a what if? cause it CAN'T happen to the 616 wolverine period....seriously..unless conan's packing Hulk-level power in those muscles of his, his sword will break nothing...all that would happen..is his sword hitting the base of the neck...then bouncing right back off that's it...if wolverine's neck could be so easily broken than why do you think he can take hulk uppercuts that send him miles into the air and not have his head seperated from his shoulders? you've already kinda pointed out some distaste for the bad writing argument so I truly wonder...what's your explaination for that? maybe you don't know enough about wolverine to be arguing here or maybe you do...... but the fact is, it's well known that wolverine's skeleton is bonded at a molecular level thus allowing it to remain ONE GOD-DAMNED piece......his cartilage and ligaments mean very little since his bones can't be seperated by anyone who doesn't have the brute strength to literally brake adamantium......conan DEFINITELY doesn't fall into this category.....

now you said that wolverine's healing factor is inconsistant...well...I agree....it is...but you have to consider that wolverine's healing factor is contingent upon the amount of energy his body houses...thus..if wolverine didn't sleep for a week or two his healing factor would slow down, if he didn't allow his body to rest, his healing factor would slow down...if he doesn't get the proper amount of food and nurishment, his healing factor slows down.......HOWEVER....we ARE supposed to be using these characters at their best.....logan at even half of that is far better than what most people assume him to be...in several of his encounters vs. sabretooth wolverine is commenting how they give and trade wounds that would have killed dozens of lesser men.....conan may be able to land a few good shots...but your whole argument rides on him being able to KO logan or overwhelm his healing factor with one blow...hell even several won't do the trick.... you also seem to be under the impression that..conan's sword is more devistating due to the brute force with which it can be used....sorry guys....wolverine's had his organs turned to jelly by hulk hits and they reformed before hulk landed the next punch..then reformed again before logan hit the ground.....conan is not packing that kind of raw power...his sword will cut....and unless conan gets lucky it's not going to put logan down....at all.....

shingen stabbed logan, logan drew him in closer by grabbing the sword and snikting him.....conan could very well fall under the same disadvantage....you guys also seem to think that wolverine takes pain and punishment just like any human...this simply isn't true...take your pic....wolverine's organs turned to jelly/ being completely gutted like a fish by cyber, by deathstrike, sabretooth, puma etc to only continue to fight/ being shot at by 100 armed assailants and quickly dispatching of all of them/ recieving mortal wounds that would put down dozens of lesser men and continuing the brawl only to hit harder and move faster as a result of the rage due to the wounds/ being set on fire on 5 sepreate occasions and remaining not only concious but standing everytime/ being batted away by an steel girder swingin namor and just stadin up ater it/ hit hard enough in the head to wreck cars over and over again and just smiling in return/....being hit by a stealth bomber in the spine just to get up from it/ being shot, stabbed, set aflame, and blown up by a small army and then promptly killing them all/ being shot with a tommy gun, gutted with a spear and set on fire by a flamethrower and just keeps coming/dropping 11 stories onto the ground and getting up imediately at a full sprint/ having his organs turned into jelly and ending the fight with a near mortal victory over hulk/ being torched by hellfire of one of the worlds oldest demons and just walking through it/ getting hit by cyks beam and walking through that/ being hit with a tree that has the destructive force of a bomb and busting out of the ground that's been glazed by it/ being thrown into the next county miles into the air by hulk (without adamntium) and just getting up right after it/ being punched in the head by hulk, grey hulk, thing, namor, collosus, and wendigo AND boucing right back up from it/being slammed head first against numerous trees by an angry wendigo only to get up pissed off and litteraly make the big guy back down with nothing but a scream/ being tortured and used as a punching bag by roughhouse (class 70 at least)all day long without adamantium/ being crushed between two cars and remaing concious THEN getting up pages later/ having his throat ripped out but remaining awake/ getting blasted by a fireweilder in the shiar empire...then grabbing her and knocking her unconcious/....etc etc etc...the list truly does go on and on and on....any one of these feats would have put logan into a state of unconsiousness simply due to the physical pain factor...YET he just keeps coming....obviously his tolerance to pain is alot higher than an average humans....hmmmm...might have something to do with the fact that HE'S NOT HUMAN....which a lot of people seem to miss around here......



also of note..a stealth bomber's wing caught logan in the spine it didn't break any bones you honestly think a sword swung by a barabrian's gonna do the trick?

conan may be stronger (that's somewhat debateable in my opinion) but he falls under the same disadvantage most human fighters do against logan....fatigue.... I can honestly say I haven't quite seen anything that supports whether or not he's actually faster than wolverine ( I don't believe that he is) but he's certainly more subject to fatigue than ol logan is.....



now....

is conans sword packing the destructive force of say......................this?

I DIDN'T THINK SO....






























not that it would matter much if it did...

Originally posted by jinzin
this is ridciculous.....CONAN WILL NOT DISLOCATE OR BREAK ANYTHING.... Uh to be fair, he said eviscerate. . . which is to say I think he means the removal of the vital organs. . .

Still from Wolverine's posture I can't imagine that'd be the easiest thing to do.

http://home.comcast.net/~kyhc/Wolverine_Stance.gif

I don't know what all this magic blade talk is, he didn't have one to my knowledge and I never knew him to carry one. And the way I read it, there was absolutly no dislocation of any vertebrae. All he did was sever all the flesh in the back of the neck (which later explains Wolvie's brain damage.)

Originally posted by Creshosk
Uh to be fair, he said eviscerate. . . which is to say I think he means the removal of the vital organs. . .

Still from Wolverine's posture I can't imagine that'd be the easiest thing to do.

http://home.comcast.net/~kyhc/Wolverine_Stance.gif

i wasn't talking to merc in that post....

oh and that tree pics for all those (well he can throw a car on wolverine) arguments.....ummmmmmmmm a redwood didn't work but a car will?

Originally posted by jinzin
i wasn't talking to merc in that post....

I was refering to this part:

"mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones"

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I don't know what all this magic blade talk is, he didn't have one to my knowledge and I never knew him to carry one. And the way I read it, there was absolutly no dislocation of any vertebrae. All he did was sever all the flesh in the back of the neck (which later explains Wolvie's brain damage.) Actually simply gcutting the flesh in the BACK of the neck wouldn't do anything that a deadlier chop to the front of the neck failed to do.

You'd have to damage the spinal cord in order to produce the brain damage.

No magic blade? Then what's making it unbreakable, and able to hurt wolverine in ways a regular blade couldn't?

Yeah, there's alot of why can't wolvie be knocked out crap going on, when any Wolvie fans knows that he's only been knocked out like 2 or 3 times in his entire career. I remember reading an old trading card that said that Hulk was the only one to ever knock out Wolvie (of course that was a while ago.)

Originally posted by Creshosk
I was refering to this part:

"mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones"

Actually simply gcutting the flesh in the BACK of the neck wouldn't do anything that a deadlier chop to the front of the neck failed to do.

You'd have to damage the spinal cord in order to produce the brain damage.

No magic blade? Then what's making it unbreakable, and able to hurt wolverine in ways a regular blade couldn't?

an all new breed of fanboy perhaps?






no I'm just joking..maybe he DOES have one...who knows...

Originally posted by Creshosk
I was refering to this part:

"mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones"

Actually simply gcutting the flesh in the BACK of the neck wouldn't do anything that a deadlier chop to the front of the neck failed to do.

You'd have to damage the spinal cord in order to produce the brain damage.

No magic blade? Then what's making it unbreakable, and able to hurt wolverine in ways a regular blade couldn't?

He lost air to his brain for a prolonged period of time thus the brain damage. He didn't have any loss of motor function or anything like that. I'm not a doctor man that's the way it was written.

And like I said I don't know anything about a magic sword. And cutting flesh is beyond the capability of a fine blade in an age of steel?

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Yeah, there's alot of why can't wolvie be knocked out crap going on, when any Wolvie fans knows that he's only been knocked out like 2 or 3 times in his entire career. I remember reading an old trading card that said that Hulk was the only one to ever knock out Wolvie (of course that was a while ago.)

he's been KOed to be sure quite a few times...but almost never in a 1on1 confrontation without circumtances.... not by a character through concussive force...massive bloodloss (i.e. sabretooth is something else entirely) off the top of my head..hulk's KOed him twice with a cheap shot on both occasions, a 3rd time out of continuity with repeated hits to the back of the head...thing's KOed him with a bonk...(don't know how cirsumstantial)....sasquatch did it when he got the drop on wolverine...so did vindicator (again..more of an ambush scenario where wolvie didn't want to really fight anways)...once against sabretooth after fighting him all day and falling off a mountain.......that's off the top of my head. but the fact still remains MORE OFTEN THAN NOT...and WITHOUT CIRCUMSTANCES.it's next to impossible to put the runt down....

Originally posted by jinzin
an all new breed of fanboy perhaps?






no I'm just joking..maybe he DOES have one...who knows...

Yeah he might, I know a druid blesses Conn's blade with some runes in the King Conan series, so they do exist, I just don't recall Conan having one in the slightest.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
He lost air to his brain for a prolonged period of time thus the brain damage. The veins responsible for this are in the front of the neck. And even then he's been chopped in the throat by shingen and wasn't that much worse for wear. . .

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
He didn't have any loss of motor function or anything like that. I'm not a doctor man that's the way it was written. By someone else who's not a doctor, I'd imagine. . but then I'm not a doctor either and I know this stuff. . .

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
And like I said I don't know anything about a magic sword. And cutting flesh is beyond the capability of a fine blade in an age of steel? Cutting the flesh is no problem, its the adamantium thats the worry. . .

Why wasn't it cut by Wolverine's claws?

Originally posted by jinzin
thing's KOed him with a bonk...(don't know how cirsumstantial).... Wolverine was sorta just standing there. . . and thing for some reason in that picture was slightly shorter than wolverine haunched over slightly.

Of course size depctions of characters fluxcuate from artist to artist. . . I know there's this one artist that drew for Cap'n A. . . but his drawings were rather hideous. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wolverine was sorta just standing there. . . and thing for some reason in that picture was slightly shorter than wolverine haunched over slightly.

Of course size depctions of characters fluxcuate from artist to artist. . . I know there's this one artist that drew for Cap'n A. . . but his drawings were rather hideous. . .

good thing the crossovers that have wolverine get beat up are totally and utterly useable for debate but nothing else is...

Originally posted by Creshosk
The veins responsible for this are in the front of the neck. And even then he's been chopped in the throat by shingen and wasn't that much worse for wear. . .

By someone else who's not a doctor, I'd imagine. . but then I'm not a doctor either and I know this stuff. . .

Cutting the flesh is no problem, its the adamantium thats the worry. . .

Why wasn't it cut by Wolverine's claws?

Well sure they are, but maybe the writer was just misinformed. And is it veins, or arteries? And of course you know this stuff, now, but it was written a while ago.

As for the sword not breaking, I think it might have later... I can't remember now. Either way there's no reason why it shouldn't last a while. I sword's durability doesn't lie in it's strength. Too strong a metal is brittle, but a flexible blade will tolerate much punishment, like the damascus which bends like sheet metal but can cut slabs of marble.

Originally posted by jinzin
good thing the crossovers that have wolverine get beat up are totally and utterly useable for debate but nothing else is... No kidding. . .

I mean I realize that characters are often leveled together to make a fight more interesting. . . as a real fight tween spidey and Firelord would be rather boring.

But people don't realize the same thing happens to Wolverine.

We can't have him going around killing every other character, so we're going to slow him way down from the way he normally is up against characters that we don't care if they die . . . so that he can't just speed blitz the non-expendable characters.

Even in his own books against his own villans he's a pain to try and knock out. . . he WAS originally a Hulk villian. . . but that doesn't mean anything either.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Well sure they are, but maybe the writer was just misinformed. And is it veins, or arteries? And of course you know this stuff, now, but it was written a while ago.Both veins and arteries. . the word I was looking for before that also started with a v was vessles. . which refer to both the veins that take away the used blood and the arteries which bring in the fresh blood.


Originally posted by MERCILOUS
As for the sword not breaking, I think it might have later... I can't remember now. Either way there's no reason why it shouldn't last a while. I sword's durability doesn't lie in it's strength. Too strong a metal is brittle, but a flexible blade will tolerate much punishment, like the damascus which bends like sheet metal but can cut slabs of marble. Simple wear and tear useage breaking isn't what I'm refering to. . . I'm talking about the six razor sharp protrusions projecting out of wolverine's hands.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Both veins and arteries. . the word I was looking for before that also started with a v was vessles. . which refer to both the veins that take away the used blood and the arteries which bring in the fresh blood.


Simple wear and tear useage breaking isn't what I'm refering to. . . I'm talking about the six razor sharp protrusions projecting out of wolverine's hands.

I wasn't talking about Wear and tear, I think Wolvie broke it later, I seem to recall Conan walking around with a broken sword at Wolvie's doing.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Well sure they are, but maybe the writer was just misinformed. And is it veins, or arteries? And of course you know this stuff, now, but it was written a while ago.

As for the sword not breaking, I think it might have later... I can't remember now. Either way there's no reason why it shouldn't last a while. I sword's durability doesn't lie in it's strength. Too strong a metal is brittle, but a flexible blade will tolerate much punishment, like the damascus which bends like sheet metal but can cut slabs of marble.

i-i don't think conans sword falls into this category...

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I wasn't talking about Wear and tear, I think Wolvie broke it later, I seem to recall Conan walking around with a broken sword at Wolvie's doing. How many claw swipes did it block? One is too many for a medieval style sword forged mostly from crude iron, as refining and blending massive amounts of steel was a bit of a problem until the 1800s. And even steel isn't strong enough to stand up to razor sharp Adamantium.

Originally posted by jinzin
i-i don't think conans sword falls into this category...

Is it a Damascus, no. Have even swords of european make been known to bend in excess of 45 degrees upon striking and bend back to true form, yes.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How many claw swipes did it block? One is too many for a medieval style sword forged mostly from crude iron, as refining and blending massive amounts of steel was a bit of a problem until the 1800s. And even steel isn't strong enough to stand up to razor sharp Adamantium.

But this wasn't European make, It's Hyborean, A society which at least in part thought that metal (if not magic) was the ultimate weapon and had tons of highly devoted craftsmen.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
But this wasn't European make, It's Hyborean, A society which at least in part thought that metal (if not magic) was the ultimate weapon and had tons of highly devoted craftsmen. Hyperborea, is set in Europe and North Africa . . .You still face technilogical difficulties if you don't use magic in a setting that is supposed to be the middle ages. Now high quality steel was being produced in southern India by what Europeans would later call the crucible technique. It was by the 9th century, smiths in the Abbasid caliphate had developed techniques for forging Damascus steel, but the secret of forging this kind of steel was lost, even in the Middle East, by around 1600, and only recently have metallurgists found methods for reproducing its properties.

But as I said before and let me add the problem was not producing it in the first place, it was mass producing it.

But this is all moot because as I said Steel isn't strong enough to stand up to razor sharp adamanmtium.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Hyperborea, is set in Europe and North Africa . . .You still face technilogical difficulties if you don't use magic in a setting that is supposed to be the middle ages. Now high quality steel was being produced in southern India by what Europeans would later call the crucible technique. It was by the 9th century, smiths in the Abbasid caliphate had developed techniques for forging Damascus steel, but the secret of forging this kind of steel was lost, even in the Middle East, by around 1600, and only recently have metallurgists found methods for reproducing its properties.

But as I said before and let me add the problem was not producing it in the first place, it was mass producing it.

But this is all moot because as I said Steel isn't strong enough to stand up to razor sharp adamanmtium.

Sure it's set in Europe and Africa during the time those two continents hadn't seperated. As for mass production, Conan usually caries a blade of higher quality than those which are mass produced. And I don't see why high quality steel couldn't stand up to adamantium if it's going to absorb the shock.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Sure it's set in Europe and Africa during the time those two continents hadn't seperated. As for mass production, Conan usually caries a blade of higher quality than those which are mass produced. And I don't see why high quality steel couldn't stand up to adamantium if it's going to absorb the shock.

Wow. . this is odd. . .really odd. . .

I've been running calculations since you asked this and I keep coming up with the same results. . .

I'm going to have to take some time to interprete the data though. . it's . . disturbing to say the least. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wow. . this is odd. . .really odd. . .

I've been running calculations since you asked this and I keep coming up with the same results. . .

I'm going to have to take some time to interprete the data though. . it's . . disturbing to say the least. . .

Please do share.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Please do share. Well, I'm was trying to cfind the best way to answer. . So I thought that I could compare Spiderman's webbing to steel to show that he can cut through something that holds massive amounts of weight.

You know, it's flexable and strong. .

But when I compared the numbers for the highest grade steel I could find to the number we were presented with for the webbing, I discovered that steel that holds 9 tons is actually MORE than Spiderman's given webbing . . .

These old handbooks are becoming less and less credible. . . You know wthe ones that even states that wolverine can be killed throguh blood loss or loss of vital organs. They seem to depower EVERYBODY. . .

I mean obviously real world physics are in no way shape or form useable in comic books since Cyclops, would need enormous neck muscles to withstand the kickback on his head every time he used his power. due to newton's third law.

Winged superheroes, such as Hawkman, would need ridiculously large chest muscles to get themselves off the ground.

And then there is the Flash . . .

But still. . . the handbook's number for Spiderman's webbing is significantly less than that of high grade steel, which some power houses can plow through like wet tissue paper, regardless of feasability to their stength.

I mean a tensile strngth of 9 tons per square centimeter for high grade steel is more than Spidermans 120 pounds per square milimeter. . . or 6 tons. . . about 3 tons less than steel.

Meaning anyone who can break metal should be able to rip Spiderman's webbing apart with ease. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well, I'm was trying to cfind the best way to answer. . So I thought that I could compare Spiderman's webbing to steel to show that he can cut through something that holds massive amounts of weight.

You know, it's flexable and strong. .

But when I compared the numbers for the highest grade steel I could find to the number we were presented with for the webbing, I discovered that steel that holds 9 tons is actually MORE than Spiderman's given webbing . . .

These old handbooks are becoming less and less credible. . . You know wthe ones that even states that wolverine can be killed throguh blood loss or loss of vital organs. They seem to depower EVERYBODY. . .

I mean obviously real world physics are in no way shape or form useable in comic books since Cyclops, would need enormous neck muscles to withstand the kickback on his head every time he used his power. due to newton's third law.

Winged superheroes, such as Hawkman, would need ridiculously large chest muscles to get themselves off the ground.

And then there is the Flash . . .

But still. . . the handbook's number for Spiderman's webbing is significantly less than that of high grade steel, which some power houses can plow through like wet tissue paper, regardless of feasability to their stength.

I mean a tensile strngth of 9 tons per square centimeter for high grade steel is more than Spidermans 120 pounds per square milimeter. . . or 6 tons. . . about 3 tons less than steel.

Meaning anyone who can break metal should be able to rip Spiderman's webbing apart with ease. . .

Damn fine research Creshok.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Damn fine research Creshok. So we know that the people at Marvel aren't all that great with physics in the first place. . .

And of course if they attempt to discredit this. . they'll of course be shutting down the "stats" argument permenantly. . .

How can we use stats if we don't know what we can trust?

Doc Ock's speed, Spiderman's web strength, Wolverine's healing abilities . . . We have nothing useable. . . especially when all have been contradicted.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So we know that the people at Marvel aren't all that great with physics in the first place. . .

And of course if they attempt to discredit this. . they'll of course be shutting down the "stats" argument permenantly. . .

How can we use stats if we don't know what we can trust?

Doc Ock's speed, Spiderman's web strength, Wolverine's healing abilities . . . We have nothing useable. . . especially when all have been contradicted.

Well all we have is what characters can and have done.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Well all we have is what characters can and have done.

This also sheds serious doubt onto all other points as well. . .

Who IS faster? And how much? We can't apply anthing from the real world? How can we with so much conflicting data?

Is spiderman faster than wolverine? I don't know anymore. . . 800 pounds? 15 tons? We can't use these numbers. . they were calculated by the people that brought you Doc Ock's speed and spiderman's web strength. . .

Spiderman's enhanced speed may or may not be superhuman anymore. . . the only thing that was telling us this was the stats. . . Speed, strength . . .

I'm so confused. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
This also sheds serious doubt onto all other points as well. . .

Who IS faster? And how much? We can't apply anthing from the real world? How can we with so much conflicting data?

Is spiderman faster than wolverine? I don't know anymore. . . 800 pounds? 15 tons? We can't use these numbers. . they were calculated by the people that brought you Doc Ock's speed and spiderman's web strength. . .

Spiderman's enhanced speed may or may not be superhuman anymore. . . the only thing that was telling us this was the stats. . . Speed, strength . . .

I'm so confused. . .

Well you wouldn't have been if you had never bothered to read a bunch of stats written by like two guys forced to do the project as opposed to there respective writers or creators.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Well you wouldn't have been if you had never bothered to read a bunch of stats written by like two guys forced to do the project as opposed to there respective writers or creators. That's true. . but I did read them, and I memorized them . . . and used them. . . and now I feel like I've beenm decieved. . . and I feel bad about being misleading by repeating back the false information I never bothered to verify for myself. . . So I have myself to blame as well. . . for just accepting it as is. . .

Well don't be too hard on yourself. You're not like others who have run rampant insisting they're the only thing that matter and twisting them to your advantage, you were just trying to be objective. Besides, this is a comic book forum, so there's no reason not to take it lightheartedly.

jinzin sayeth:

<<this is ridciculous.....CONAN WILL NOT DISLOCATE OR BREAK ANYTHING....I haven't read the issue myself...mercilous seems to think that conan simply cut everything in the back of the neck and there was no displacement of bones.....you conan supporters think that conan did indeed break his neck...does anyone have pics? or proof? (i'm genuinely curious.....).... >>

to which leonidas replyeth:

all you gotta do is ask . . .

and on . . .

and on . . ..

and lastly . . .

now what exactly happened to wolvie's neck when the indestructible blade hit it is a bit puzzling. somehow his neck was injured to the extent that oxygen did not reach logan's brain for a long time and so when he awoke he was an 'animal'. the blow severed his jugular somehow, so i suppose that's why he didn't get o2 to his brain. after a long while (looks like at least several hours in the book) his jugular heals but his brain damage does not. does that mean he can't heal brain damage? don't know, but he remains an animal throughout the whole issue. while in berserker he severs conan's hand and would likely have been able to finish him off had the battle continued.

for what it's worth, there's the pics. make inferences at will.

edit:

somehow the pics got scrambled. this should be pic 2

#3 is fine. this should be #4

#5

#6 where his hand is cut off.

is here . . .

and if you can follow that disaster, good on ya!

cripes . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
the blow severed his jugular somehow, He choped the jugular vein that's on the front onf the neck, by chopping him in the back of the neck. . .

http://www.bartleby.com/107/Images/small/image558.jpg

And he did this when Shingen's attack to the front of the neck failed to cause him to pass out due to blood loss.

Originally posted by leonidas
is here . . .

Why is Wolverine grinning like Joker in that scan?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Why is Wolverine grinning like Joker in that scan? Because of the brain damage resulting from his jugular, that's in the front of the neck, being severd by an attack to the back f his neck. . .

<<He choped the jugular vein that's on the front onf the neck, by chopping him in the back of the neck. . .>>

yeah, that confused me too . . .

bottom line is this though - conan caused brain damage by chopping his neck like he did.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<He choped the jugular vein that's on the front onf the neck, by chopping him in the back of the neck. . .>>

yeah, that confused me too . . .

bottom line is this though - conan caused brain damage by chopping his neck like he did. And I think it was PIS, that's like gouging someone's eyes out by attacking the back of the head.

Conan will die! No matter how hard he tries to kill Wolverine, it won't happen. Not with the weapons of his time.

i am a conan fanboy. in reality this would be a great match as conan is a peak human. and while i doubt that conan could actually kill wolverine he definitely could leave laid out in a world of extreme hurt.

Originally posted by leonidas
now what exactly happened to wolvie's neck when the indestructible blade hit it is a bit puzzling. somehow his neck was injured to the extent that oxygen did not reach logan's brain for a long time and so when he awoke he was an 'animal'. the blow severed his jugular somehow, so i suppose that's why he didn't get o2 to his brain. after a long while (looks like at least several hours in the book) his jugular heals but his brain damage does not. does that mean he can't heal brain damage? don't know, but he remains an animal throughout the whole issue. while in berserker he severs conan's hand and would likely have been able to finish him off had the battle continued.

for what it's worth, there's the pics. make inferences at will.




his healing factor can heal brain damage..this was best demonstrated by sabretooth who's now been stabbed through the brain on 2 occasions...the first time it reverted him into something comparible to a dog in behavior but he eventually healed, the second time he was completely uneffected...the same way wolverine was uneffected when an arrow was shot through is ears and into his brain..so yea..he can heal brain damage, just takes time....well if wolverine was berserker in one scene and not in another than that just goes to show you guys at his best, wolvie wins....

Originally posted by leonidas
and if you can follow that disaster, good on ya!

cripes . . .

thank you..man...most appreciated....

again i feel the need to stress that wolverine doesnt heal instantaneuosly when he receives massive truama, only superficial wounds. in ultimate x-men when he and sabretooth was fighting after they fell off the cliff it took a while for him to recover, later on in the series when proteus was going on a rampage, after wolvie had gotten run over by that big rig it took a few mins well for him to get back up, and even later in the series when he tried to kill cyclops, after scott had tracked him to canada to reinvite him to join the xmen he zapped him first and it took a few minutes for him to regain consciouness. etc.. so there is no way you can tell me that him gettin a fat axe or sword lodged in his chest isnt gonna make him scream like amanda and hit the ground, twisting in pain which would leave him open for more attacks. and who said anything about breaking his bones? thats not wat this is about. i think perhaps you all are confusing a fight to win with a fight to the death. of course logans healing wound prevent him from dying ...and thats the only reason he would survive.

Has any of you been reading Conan lately? this guy regulalry faces off against mythical blood thirsty beasts that are three times his size and strentgh with huge clunky weapons and comes out on top, and when he battles regualr humans its dozens at a time....which wolverine does too, but when he takes on a gang its usually ppl who cant fight or who are really bad shots, plus his nice bite sized blades that slip out of his knuckles that never falls out of his hand gives him a killer advantage.

you know then again we might be talking about two differnt conans. you all are probably thinking about the campy one from marvel comics, where he was just a dark haired ka-zar. im talking about both the bad ass orignal(robert E howards) and the current dark horse series. wolverine may be good at taking down fool's who cant fight but lets see how well he does against a frost giant, after he's been wandering around in the snow for a few days, tired from a recent battle

Originally posted by manjaro
there is no way you can tell me that him gettin a fat axe or sword lodged in his chest isnt gonna make him scream like amanda and hit the ground, twisting in pain

You mean like when he got run through with a sowrd, pulled the sowrd all the way into him to pull himself closer to his opponent and skewer his opponent. . .

Yeah, actually I can tell you that Wolverine has a higher pain threshold than you give him credit for.

Damn, he was burned by Mr. Clean and he didn't even grunt...he has higher pain threshold.

Originally posted by manjaro
again i feel the need to stress that wolverine doesnt heal instantaneuosly when he receives massive truama, only superficial wounds. in ultimate x-men when he and sabretooth was fighting after they fell off the cliff it took a while for him to recover, later on in the series when proteus was going on a rampage, after wolvie had gotten run over by that big rig it took a few mins well for him to get back up, and even later in the series when he tried to kill cyclops, after scott had tracked him to canada to reinvite him to join the xmen he zapped him first and it took a few minutes for him to regain consciouness. etc.. so there is no way you can tell me that him gettin a fat axe or sword lodged in his chest isnt gonna make him scream like amanda and hit the ground, twisting in pain which would leave him open for more attacks. and who said anything about breaking his bones? thats not wat this is about. i think perhaps you all are confusing a fight to win with a fight to the death. of course logans healing wound prevent him from dying ...and thats the only reason he would survive.

Has any of you been reading Conan lately? this guy regulalry faces off against mythical blood thirsty beasts that are three times his size and strentgh with huge clunky weapons and comes out on top, and when he battles regualr humans its dozens at a time....which wolverine does too, but when he takes on a gang its usually ppl who cant fight or who are really bad shots, plus his nice bite sized blades that slip out of his knuckles that never falls out of his hand gives him a killer advantage.

you know then again we might be talking about two differnt conans. you all are probably thinking about the campy one from marvel comics, where he was just a dark haired ka-zar. im talking about both the bad ass orignal(robert E howards) and the current dark horse series. wolverine may be good at taking down fool's who cant fight but lets see how well he does against a frost giant, after he's been wandering around in the snow for a few days, tired from a recent battle


wolverine fights off HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of hand ninjas at one time..... these guys are described as one being equally effective to 12 well trained swat team members....wolverine also took on multitudes of super villains in wolverine 16 and was laying them out left anf right, he took on over 100 well armed pirates and didn't break a sweat, he fought of an entire centurian army, armed with high grade armor, gas, swords, and lazors, AND he was winning... THEN he did it again.....you are seriously not giving wolverine credit where credit is due....first with his pain tolerance and now with his enemies.....conan fights bloodthrsty beasts...that's great an all but..................

also this isn't ultimate wolverine it's 616 so your example sucks for the purposes of this debate man...

Apparently I made a mistake. I thought there was something mentioned to be special about the blade earlier in the issue.

The weird thing is that you can't see the injury when Wolverine is on his back or even any blood on his throat. Did the intermediate pages between round 1 and round 2 say anything about his recovery.

dude wolverine is wolverine is wolverine. he is one of the few charcters in the ENTIRE ultimate universe who's powers and story never got changed, him and captain america so i dont know where you're coming from with that 616 bullshit...oh i get it only when it suits your needs... im not talking about beind simply run thru or stabbed im talkng about being whacked the shit out of with a huge sword or axe(two of conan's most prominent choices), each blow taking out chunks of flesh each time. i dont give a damn who he is he's gonna feel it. i previously mentioned punshier bazooka-ing him in the loweer exremities and blew out all his organs, he was out for the rest of the day. frank even went as far as parking a steam roller on top of him, and left him stranded. now, can frank actually kill him...no, but is that a win for him?...you damn right. like i said if its a fight to the death you're looking for of course wolverine is gonna win, but conan would lay into his ass real seriously enuff to get a victory. you see the thing with wolverine fanboys is that when they see that he can lose a fight they say" oh no, we're talking about killing, not who can get a three count, if its killing wolvie will win." i admit that perhaps i gave him less credit for his pain tolerance, but conan can knock him out nontheless, and dont say he cant be knocked eother cuz he has been on a few occasions

also jinzin is it me or is that last scan of wolvie fighting hulk was when he was masquerading as death as one of apocalypse horseman in that blue armor and yellow eyes. if it indeed is, dont you think that sucks for the purposes of this debate man...

Originally posted by manjaro
that 616 bullshit... You don't know about the multiverse?

Universe 616 is the mainstream story line.

We only argue about universe 616, we can't for example say that Wolverine went on a killing spree, killing Apocalypse, Juggernaut, Pyro, Arcade, Mister Sinister, Blob, Mystique, Sabretooth, and Magneto, as evidence in a fight of Wolverine versus any of those.

But technically he did. . . Universe 2988's Wolverine did anyway, but 616 never did.

Originally posted by manjaro
also jinzin is it me or is that last scan of wolvie fighting hulk was when he was masquerading as death as one of apocalypse horseman in that blue armor and yellow eyes. if it indeed is, dont you think that sucks for the purposes of this debate man... Why? 616 Wolverine did that. . .at about the same time that 2988 Wolverine did his thing.

are you serious dude? you're questioning my knowledge of the multiverse? name one universe where logan isnt some loose cannon named james and has admantium claws and a healing factor? whats the difference between one wolverine and the other. anyhoo, i think we're going off on a tangent here, cuz it seems like you're trying to take me on or something... so i think you need to relax dude, its just a message board, not the end of the world.

also when ever ppl argue on this forum they ususally throw in any character from any situation from any universe they can draw an example from, there was no hard and fast rule that whenever battles are being debated its only from 616, thats just something YOU came up with....cuz you cant stand the thought of wolverine losing..besides i think you would agree that this thread has become a little stagnant since there's only like three ppl debating in here

Originally posted by manjaro
are you serious dude? you're questioning my knowledge of the multiverse? name one universe where logan isnt some loose cannon named james and has admantium claws and a healing factor? whats the difference between one wolverine and the other. anyhoo, i think we're going off on a tangent here, cuz it seems like you're trying to take me on or something... so i think you need to relax dude, its just a message board, not the end of the world 9791

There's a big difference in wolverines because of the events that happen before hand alter who and what the character is.

Seriously if you think the 616 wolverine is like all the other wolverine's you are sadly mistaken.

Originally posted by manjaro
also when ever ppl argue on this forum they ususally throw in any character from any situation from any universe they can draw an example from, there was no hard and fast rule that whenever battles are being debated its only from 616, thats just something YOU came up with....cuz you cant stand the thought of wolverine losing..besides i think you would agree that this thread has become a little stagnant since there's only like three ppl debating in here



Funny looks like Tron posted that rule. . .

dude im not talking about story lines im talking about the core character him self. thats never changed in any universe. for example, ultimate nick fury is a black guy...changed. ultimate MOJO is a human albino and not an intergalactic being...changed. ultimate wolverine adamntium claws and healing factor...not changed

Originally posted by Creshosk
Funny looks like Tron posted that rule. . .

well he may have posted it but that doesnt mean it makes any sense. thats just something he came up with when he turned MOD. cuz if thats the case then there would be no threads on this forum. how many marvel versus dc threads are there out there. or charcters from both trespective companies in some kind of matchup, then ppl cite crossover happenings like crazy. man i give up*throws hands in air like he just dont care* you're hopeless

Originally posted by manjaro
dude im not talking about story lines im talking about the core character him self. thats never changed in any universe. for example, ultimate nick fury is a black guy...changed. ultimate MOJO is a human albino and not an intergalactic being...changed. ultimate wolverine adamntium claws and healing factor...not changed Also not the mainstream 616, so events in his past cannot be considered. Or else I could draw from either 2988 Wolverine or one of the Lord of the vampires wolverines.

2988 Wolverine would kill conan so bad that the 2988 Wolverine who has the healing factor and Adamantium etc. . . would have infinite wins out of 10.

Because 2988 also has the ability to kill apocalypse, magneto and juggernaught as part of a killing spree.

But since 2988 is not 616 I can't use him, nor ANY of the events in his history, because he is not the 616 wolverine.

Originally posted by manjaro
well he may have posted it but that doesnt mean it makes any sense. thats just something he came up with when he turned MOD. cuz if thats the case then there would be no threads on this forum. how many marvel versus dc threads are there out there. or charcters from both trespective companies in some kind of matchup, then ppl cite crossover happenings like crazy. man i give up*throws hands in air like he just dont care* you're hopeless If you use ultimate wolverine I can start using 2988 Wolverine.

Why should I have to use 616 when you don't need to?

.....Originally posted by manjaro
dude wolverine is wolverine is wolverine. he is one of the few charcters in the ENTIRE ultimate universe who's powers and story never got changed, him and captain america so i dont know where you're coming from with that 616 bullshit...oh i get it only when it suits your needs... im not talking about beind simply run thru or stabbed im talkng about being whacked the shit out of with a huge sword or axe(two of conan's most prominent choices), each blow taking out chunks of flesh each time. i dont give a damn who he is he's gonna feel it. i previously mentioned punshier bazooka-ing him in the loweer exremities and blew out all his organs, he was out for the rest of the day. frank even went as far as parking a steam roller on top of him, and left him stranded. now, can frank actually kill him...no, but is that a win for him?...you damn right. like i said if its a fight to the death you're looking for of course wolverine is gonna win, but conan would lay into his ass real seriously enuff to get a victory. you see the thing with wolverine fanboys is that when they see that he can lose a fight they say" oh no, we're talking about killing, not who can get a three count, if its killing wolvie will win." i admit that perhaps i gave him less credit for his pain tolerance, but conan can knock him out nontheless, and dont say he cant be knocked eother cuz he has been on a few occasions


actually wolverine is very very similar to the wolverine of the 616 universe but he's not the same... nor is his history...which we still know very little about. honestly, we know more about 616 wolverine than ultimate.. however, his history is irrelivant...sorry....back to the point, that wolverine is not 616 wolverine...going by that logic sabretooth and wolverine are the same guys in the 616 universe because of their comparitive abilities...which simply isn't true they are two different characters...
also, note, ultimate cap is by far stronger than 616 cap so he is not the same either...
I wasn't talking about being run through or stabbed either... wolverine's been "whacked" by a sword, what does it do? heals in a panal or two, it however doesn't slow him down or stop him... when fighting sabretooth huge chuncks of flesh are torn off of him.....he keeps fighting. wolverine's been hacked at by multiple mechedes before....what did THAT do? nothing, he killed his assailants almost immedietely.

whether you're talking about a fight to the death or a fight to the KO the chances of conan taking this are slimmer than not....you said it yourself wolverine's been knocked out on a few occasions...key word being few....another thing to consider is that when he does get KOed it's usually because he's already battle worn, gets hit with a cheap shot, is poisioned or gassed, or he's being hit by a character who has inhuman super strength. Conan unfortunately, has none of these as a factor on his side going into this fight....neither does Conan posses a bazooka or a steamroller, so I fail to see your point there....

could conan conceivably chop a wall or a tree down on top of wolverine in similar fasion to your punisher example?...if he had the right battlefield and right circumstances sure he could...but what's more likely to happen? him having the right circumstances going for him in this fight is a theory reliant on CHANCE...him falling down and dying after wolverine hits him in the face with his claws however is not..that's a given and that's what makes this fight go in wolverine's favor...every shot wolvie tags will be lasting and deabilitating.....conan does not have that same guarantee...
logistically speaking, conan's fighting an uphill battle here...his entire plan will half to be "hit logan hard enough, enough times to effectively put him down....but he's also fighting against the adamantium skeleton, superb fighting ability, a possible berserker rage, super human endurance, and above human speed and strength. If conan was a superior fighter I'd call this a little more even...hell even now I'd venture to say he can definitely pull out a win or two.....but given what we know about these characters he loses more often than not

also...I seriously hope you weren't reffering to me as a fanboy cause I have not yet insulted you.....

Originally posted by manjaro
also jinzin is it me or is that last scan of wolvie fighting hulk was when he was masquerading as death as one of apocalypse horseman in that blue armor and yellow eyes. if it indeed is, dont you think that sucks for the purposes of this debate man...

no I certainly do not...the pic was in reference to the types of threats that wolverine deals with on a regular basis..sorry but the term savage beast is not as impressive as the name...HULK.....

why would it be useless for the purpose of expanding on THAT POINT? at least that's 616 wolverine...

I have a few questions to pose to this debate. Ive already said my version and Im not gonna cry if people dont agree with me, but it seems like the clincher in this debate is the healing factor. But when Jinzin (i think your the one that posted, it was a few pages back) all of the examples of Wolverine's healing factor, Im confused. Im even more confused when you try to figure out about the spine popping and pulling out. Ive come to the conclusion that there MUST be multiple wolverines of varying degrees of skill and healing ability that exist. This explains why he is always making appearances in everyones comics.

If Wolverine did stuff like bounce back from being hit with a nuke, has taken hits from the Hulk, not been KOed by only a few people, then his healing factor is humongous. I mean, coming back from a NUKE. But likewise, there are other situations where Hes been Hurt by otherstuff, and have to come back to heal. Like in Fatal Attractions, Mags pulled the adamantium off his bones, which Im sure hurt his bones, but bone pain isnt fatal. It looked like the adamantium ripped out of his body in spikes, which im sure WOULD be painful. And in the comic he looked to be almost dead! Jean had to hold his body together with TK, he was seeing the white light, all that stuff. How can someone that has laughed at the HULK, and can bounce back from a NUKE, almost die from being torn up? A NUKE would leave NOTHING. If Wolverine has shrugged off having his neck slice open and heal instantly, and came back from the smoldering ashes that a true NUKE would leave, then what Mags did to him would seem like he wouldnt even hit the floor.

Now, Im not saying him shrugging off the Hulk is PIS, and Im not saying that him getting KOed by Conan hitting him in the back of the head is PIS either. Im just confused. If the real Wolverine can heal instantly, shrug off the Hulk, and eat NUKES for breakfast with his healing, then I think he can take Conan. But if we are talking about the Wolverine that has to slow down when he gets chopped, then I think Conan can win after a big, awesome fight.

They never really came out and explained his healing factor in the books, which is always strange to me. Im in college and I know a little bit about the human anatomy, and there are alot of holes in the whole healing factor that were never plugged.

let me see if i can help....there are not multiple wolverines...however..his healing factoer DOES allow him to regerate at verying degrees....his healing factor is contingent upon his amount of energy and rest that he has....if he hasn't eaten for a while, his healing factor slows down, if he hasn't rested for a while (days on end), his healing factor slows down, if he's been in contual fighting without rest or nurishment his healing factors slows down.....this explains why sometimes he is left bleeding for pages after an explosion, yet in another instance his body heals from being completely burned within a few panals....or why in some instances bullets leave him a bloody mess yet in other instances his healing factor allows his body to heal so fast that it heals behind the trail of a blade that's entered his body before his attacker has a chance to draw the blade back out...

I'm not about to defend him taking a nuke...but what magneto did to him makes since...his own bones had not supported even his own body weight for years and years...the lack of use probably severely weakened them and made them utterly useless for that moment as his healing factor couldn't reach past the adamantium to keep them strong...when magneto pulled the stuff out it came out everywhere...with no reguard for internal organs and the sort......wolverine's reaction to what happened makes sense. But that's a severe example of him falling to trauma....something FAR outside what conan can do to him, I think we can both agree on that...

in any event..we are supposed to be using both characters at the best of their abilities.....even at half of that wolverine should be abel to handle anything conan throws at him with a decent amount of ease. wolverine's been dealing with characters whos boast super strength for nearly 30 years now..it's truly not new to him, nor is it outside his capability to handle punches from people of the sort.....


also consider that wolverine's gotten stronger of over the years...at first a glancing blow from hulk put him down...now he can take multiple hulk punches without passing out....I assume his healing factor is building up a type of immunity to superstrength to compensate for his encounters with superheroes and the sort... given his power it's not unlikely....(just like how bones get stronger after they're broken..now wolverine's punishment tolerance is higher).


but if that doesn't work for you...hey man...it's comics...

The whole energy thing sounds kinda lame. I mean, it makes sense, but it seems like an easy way out to describe his damage regeneration. When he fights one person, he heals cuts instantly, but in another fight he gets hit by a truck and has to take a minute. I dont remember Wolverine ever saying "Oh, your lucky I only got two hours of sleep last night, otherwise I would have healed that by now" or "That blow would have KOed me, if I didnt eat my wheaties this morning" If his healing factor is based of the amount of energy he has, then it seems like his healing factor is a cellular process that requires fuel (ATP fueling cellular division at an increased rate?). Which means that he could only heal up to a certain point, in which his cells would begin to run out of fuel and stop healing. It would also mean his body would be ravenously hungry if he had to heal alot quickly, like the Flash's enhanced metabolism.

I realize that we are suppose to think of the heroes at their strongest, but Wolverine only appears to fluctuate and be strong enough to give whoever he is fighting at the time a good fight.

The idea that his body adapts and forms a kind of immunity to super strength is a good idea. Its similar to how his mind forgot this past to "heal" his mental scars. But if that was true then his body would be alot different than a normal humans. His body would have adapted with like, extremely hard boney armor, or something like that. Unless he is secretly a saiyan and gets stronger whenever he is almost killed.

Oh, and in regard to his pain threshold, I think he has a normal person's pain threshold, he just doesnt tend to care that it hurts since hes gonna heal it anyway. If I had a healing factor, Id do stuff like jump out of windows for fun. It would hurt, but I wouldnt let it bother me because Id know Ill be ok. All in the mind.

Originally posted by jinzin
.....
also...I seriously hope you weren't reffering to me as a fanboy cause I have not yet insulted you.....

nah i was just speaking generally. as whenever ppl defend wolvie thats how it ususally plays out

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Oh, and in regard to his pain threshold, I think he has a normal person's pain threshold, he just doesnt tend to care that it hurts since hes gonna heal it anyway. If I had a healing factor, Id do stuff like jump out of windows for fun. It would hurt, but I wouldnt let it bother me because Id know Ill be ok. All in the mind.

Wolverine spent two years (october 93 to august 95) with a healing factor that was almost nothing to speak of and even before that Wolverine was constantly mentioning in naration that his healing factor was nothing like it was in his glory days. With out his healing factor Wolverine has fought Sabretooth something like 3 times with out a healing factor, Lady Death Strike twice (once with Omega Red), Deadpool and Roughouse and Bloodscream... I can'y see who anyone could even come close to considering Logan's pain threshold with in a normal range.

lack of sufficient knowledge...it's what I've been saying for forever now... people lack the appropriate knowledge to effectively debate against the character... yet many people think that reading a stats list and a profile will tell them everything they need to know..doesn't matter if the profile's wrong or not..

Or if they're misinterpreting the profile or not. . .

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
The whole energy thing sounds kinda lame. I mean, it makes sense, but it seems like an easy way out to describe his damage regeneration. When he fights one person, he heals cuts instantly, but in another fight he gets hit by a truck and has to take a minute. I dont remember Wolverine ever saying "Oh, your lucky I only got two hours of sleep last night, otherwise I would have healed that by now" or "That blow would have KOed me, if I didnt eat my wheaties this morning" If his healing factor is based of the amount of energy he has, then it seems like his healing factor is a cellular process that requires fuel (ATP fueling cellular division at an increased rate?). Which means that he could only heal up to a certain point, in which his cells would begin to run out of fuel and stop healing. It would also mean his body would be ravenously hungry if he had to heal alot quickly, like the Flash's enhanced metabolism.

I realize that we are suppose to think of the heroes at their strongest, but Wolverine only appears to fluctuate and be strong enough to give whoever he is fighting at the time a good fight.

The idea that his body adapts and forms a kind of immunity to super strength is a good idea. Its similar to how his mind forgot this past to "heal" his mental scars. But if that was true then his body would be alot different than a normal humans. His body would have adapted with like, extremely hard boney armor, or something like that. Unless he is secretly a saiyan and gets stronger whenever he is almost killed.

Oh, and in regard to his pain threshold, I think he has a normal person's pain threshold, he just doesnt tend to care that it hurts since hes gonna heal it anyway. If I had a healing factor, Id do stuff like jump out of windows for fun. It would hurt, but I wouldnt let it bother me because Id know Ill be ok. All in the mind.

well it's just a theory... it's the best I could come up with to try and explain wolverine's inconsistancy for his healing factor and it makes sense to a certain degree...I do think that his healing factor can get maxed out....just not in a fighting scenario.... in terms of my theory it would convievably take days to wear him down to that point.... also havok as exausted himself by using his mutant power in overdrive... I could definitely see the same thing happening to wolvie..just not very quickly...

as far as his immunity to strong guys....I guess I should have been more clear, sorry... in THAT perticular theory I assumed his BRAIN is what built up an immunity...like extra tissue or something, his body just got adept at healing his internal organs at faster and faster rates...for instance he was gutted by cyber and took the entire night to recover, (while one may blame cyber's drugs for causing this effect there was no indication that the drugs slowed the healing factor down so I assume it did not) however a few years back when he was gutted by puma, he was drugged again and yet his healing factor stiched up the damage before the fight was over.....it's similar to how our bodies are...for instance...if you run a few miles and you get home your legs become horribly fatigued..you continue to run and the time it takes your legs to heal becomes less and less............so IMO his brain's become harder to rattle, and his body faster to heal....

even at a happy medium logan's surely more capable of taking whatever conan dishes out in abundance...and remember he only needs one hit to sufficently de-abilitate conan....

Conan, of course, he killed a dragon in 5 minutes in one novel.

so what? wolverine's put down the hulk.....


hulk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.dragon......

In other book, Conah have killed a god.
Truly, not in five minutes.

wolverine killed an omnipotent galactic threat...

Still I think that Conan would win. He is blessed by his father a god and is destined never to lose. In another book, he died out of drinking too much, then beat the hell out of the Death itself and came back.

yeah and yet he could barely hold his own against two well trained barbarians...


wolverine's revived from death on several occasion....big deal...


anything conan can do wolverine can do faster, and better.

I disagree. Conan have destroyed an ancient demon-god with his bare hands.

wolverine having done more of the same... kabal...another guy in wolverine annual 95...don't remember his name though....

Originally posted by jinzin
so what? wolverine's put down the hulk.....


hulk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.dragon......

But Batman can do that....

that's cause he's freakin batman....

Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine having done more of the same... kabal...another guy in wolverine annual 95...don't remember his name though.... Slayback?

no...this 3 story tall demon king...

Originally posted by jinzin
no...this 3 story tall demon king... Kierrok?

maybe...that sounds about right...

Damn fine knowledge on Wolvie jinzin, but there's one thing I don't think Wolvie can do faster than Conan, and that's fight.

Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine fights off HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of hand ninjas at one time..... these guys are described as one being equally effective to 12 well trained swat team members....wolverine also took on multitudes of super villains in wolverine 16 and was laying them out left anf right, he took on over 100 well armed pirates and didn't break a sweat, he fought of an entire centurian army, armed with high grade armor, gas, swords, and lazors, AND he was winning... THEN he did it again.....you are seriously not giving wolverine credit where credit is due....first with his pain tolerance and now with his enemies.....conan fights bloodthrsty beasts...that's great an all but..................
The pic you posted doesn't count.
As Death Logan was enhanced far above his standars, he obtained both superhuman strenght and durability, Cyclops blasted him point blank at full power and Wolvie walked through the blast.He was able to perform telepathic attacks to shut down telepathy users and to emit energy through his sword.
Anyway Conan is screwd.
Yes, a great hth combatant, swordsman, considerable strenght and endurance, he's obviously a peak human guy, but Logan can take anything Conan has and give it back with more efficiency, plus he can heal from any kind of damage Conan is supposed to do to him.