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For many young kids (adults), Christmas (religion) is a day when Santa Claus (God) will deliver them their presents (their eternal happiness). They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him? Well, through the years of their life since their birth, their parents (Church) have told them that Santa Claus (God) is very real and exists. Also, their lives are not perfect, so its very comforting and convenient to believe an entity so nice as Santa Claus (God) exists, in a word, it MAKES their daily meaningless lives that much easier to swallow. So, they go with the program, taking in every word of their Parents (Church) as truth and overlooking the inconsistencies as unimportant, never questioning anything, and when confronted, simply and effortlessly state the word "FAITH"...which effectively ends any logical argument at that point. After all, what argument can be used to disprove faith? I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it.

Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so.

while I whole heartedly agree with you, I believe you should have softened up your point a bit. Don't be surprised if this thread ends up getting closed..............for it's bluntness. Respecting others' beliefs is one of the big rules of the forum.

Originally posted by masterbruce
For many young kids (adults), Christmas (religion) is a day when Santa Claus (God) will deliver them their presents (their eternal happiness). They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him? Well, through the years of their life since their birth, their parents (Church) have told them that Santa Claus (God) is very real and exists. Also, their lives are not perfect, so its very comforting and convenient to believe an entity so nice as Santa Claus (God) exists, in a word, it MAKES their daily meaningless lives that much easier to swallow. So, they go with the program, taking in every word of their Parents (Church) as truth and overlooking the inconsistencies as unimportant, never questioning anything, and when confronted, simply and effortlessly state the word "FAITH"...which effectively ends any logical argument at that point. After all, what argument can be used to disprove faith? I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it.

Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so.

I mostly agree with you, however, the tone, for me, is wrong, "pathetic lives" is where we part company. Now I agree that most people wish to hide from the possibility of "pathetic lives", but what I have found is, this pathetic life, is not pathetic, but profound. If you let got of all attachments, you will gain something unbelievable, control over yourself.

I didnt target anyone specifically...basically just launched my tirade on what I think to be the absurdity of religion

my post is more oped than something meant to offend so hopefully the mods will let it stay

Shakya, I understand that my tone is a bit harsh, but I think one of the reasons why so many people gravitate towards religion is because of the convenient comfort it provides them with.

Imagine there was a religion that said God created man and the universe but doesnt give a f@#k about humans and that there is no afterlife, it would be a very unpopular religion and most people would stay away from it because it doesn't HELP them.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Shakya, I understand that my tone is a bit harsh, but I think one of the reasons why so many people gravitate towards religion is because of the convenient comfort it provides them with.

Imagine there was a religion that said God created man and the universe but doesnt give a f@#k about humans and that there is no afterlife, it would be a very unpopular religion and most people would stay away from it because it doesn't HELP them.

I understand you have a point, but the only ones who will get it, are people like Evil Dead, debbiejo & me. I wish I had a way to tell the "children" that "Santa Claus" does not exist but they will not listen.

Other than that, I think you made a good point and I liked the way you drew a parallel with Xmas and religion.

BTW there are religions in the world that do not do this.

People try to find comfort in the different religions..It's banning together in groups and subgroups...Your point is very straight forward, and I do find that many, many people do follow blindly, never questioning anything...Even though scripture says things like "Let us Reason together", And" Do not trust in mans teachings."....Still people do...I don't know if it's laziness, ignorant bliss, or just the uncomfortable feeling of finding out something that might be true, because that would leave you with a decision.....A decision that may not be popular...and one that will cause you to be judged....It's a comfort thing for most.


I do believe there is something....something that connects with everything...something that doesn't judge....IT enter reacts/enter relates with us...It's just most people don't see or realize it unless you study it, as they are now doing with some physics fields....

while I agree with you Bruce, here's where my thinking differs. You claim these people are pathetic, leaving meaningless lives, weak and brainless. I do not see it that way at all.

I agree with you that they are merely searching for something to give their life meaning......comfort......happiness. Sure they must suspend dis-belief and embrace the incredible, much like while watching an action sci-fi movie,......without one ounce of evidence or even quasi-evidence to do so. I, frankly, see nothing wrong with that. To each his own. The old saying "ignorance is bliss" is true. If it works for them......helping them lead happier, more productive lives I'm all for it. Sure they'll be dissapointed when they reach their end on this earth and face the moment of truth......but no harm done, it served it's purpose. It helped them lead happier, more productive lives.

My only problems are with the yahoos who seem it's necissary to share their own personal beliefs. They are called OWN PERSONAL beliefs for a reason. There is no need to preach about them in hopes of converting others, trying to change others' beliefs to match their own. Everybody on this planet knows what Christianity is about. What it's beliefs are. There is no need for it's members to ever mutter another word about it to the rest of the world. We know what it is.....if we believed it, we'd be sitting next to you at church on Sunday. The only reason I can think of that they do this is to re-affirm the beliefs that they themselves have doubts about. After all, if others believe it too......it must be true.

evil dead, I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with people choosing beliefs that make their lives easier...IRL I dont go around telling people they are idiots because they worhsip something that doesn't exist. In fact I think society would be a hellhole without any religion, because many morally corrupt people would do horrible stuff if they didn't believe that they would be damned in hell forever otherwise...so religion definitely serves its purposes.

In the end, I have no problems with religious people who act consistently with their beliefs. But I definitely have a problem with religious HYPOCRITES...they annoy me very much.

Originally posted by masterbruce
evil dead, I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with people choosing beliefs that make their lives easier...IRL I dont go around telling people they are idiots because they worhsip something that doesn't exist. In fact I think society would be a hellhole without any religion, because many morally corrupt people would do horrible stuff if they didn't believe that they would be damned in hell forever otherwise...so religion definitely serves its purposes.

In the end, I have no problems with religious people who act consistently with their beliefs. But I definitely have a problem with religious HYPOCRITES...they annoy me very much.

I believe that religions have done much harm.....It should include all beliefs in what the good of all there is.....Instead it has proved to be noninclusive to the point of harming other beliefs, caused wars,...It's destructive and causes people to act on the behalf of a god they do not know...Most don't even read the Bible themselves....Just sit on Sunday and listen to what the Pastor has to say....churches are denomination oriented, and not love oriented...it's divisive..

And yes, there are more hypocrites in places like this, then in other spiritual communities....mainly because they know it's only a journey...

Well with Santa Clause most people just outgrow it (or are told the truth).People don't out grow religon.They might abandon it or not belive it though.

I did.

People stop believing in Santa because they learn more about the world around them and realize how impractical/impossible it is for a fat man to travel around the world in one night, sliding down chimneys, leaving presents for good boys and girls. Same thing for me.....just insert Jesus over Santa.

You just didn't get any presents one year did you???

though I think many people will research "Other Religions" first, before deciding to quite a belief altogether....Just my impression

here's where it all fell apart for me.......for all religions, never bothered with any others.

Incredible statements require incredible investigation to yeild incredible proof. In the last 5000+ years of human civilization, not one shed of proof has been turned up to lend creedence to these incredible accusations.

As for researching other religions.........

Religions are all the same. You're told what to believe by one.....you're told what to believe by another. If you think for yourself and come to your own conclusions that differ from those of a religion in any way.......you're not actually part of the religion as you don't believe 100% what it states, what it tells you to believe.

Originally posted by debbiejo
You just didn't get any presents one year did you???

though I think many people will research "Other Religions" first, before deciding to quite a belief altogether....Just my impression

My big mistake was reading the bible. What I was being told it said was not what it said. That was over 20 years ago, I went a long time with no religion. I finally got tired of being without an important part of my early life, spirituality. So I chose Buddhism just because it was different, and filled the need in me, however, I was surprise to find, that for me, it worked.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
here's where it all fell apart for me.......for all religions, never bothered with any others.

Incredible statements require incredible investigation to yeild incredible proof. In the last 5000+ years of human civilization, not one shed of proof has been turned up to lend creedence to these incredible accusations.

As for researching other religions.........

Religions are all the same. You're told what to believe by one.....you're told what to believe by another. If you think for yourself and come to your own conclusions that differ from those of a religion in any way.......you're not actually part of the religion as you don't believe 100% what it states, what it tells you to believe.

You should study the writing of Buddha, Zen would be a good place for you to start.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
here's where it all fell apart for me.......for all religions, never bothered with any others.

Incredible statements require incredible investigation to yeild incredible proof. In the last 5000+ years of human civilization, not one shed of proof has been turned up to lend creedence to these incredible accusations.

As for researching other religions.........

Religions are all the same. You're told what to believe by one.....you're told what to believe by another. If you think for yourself and come to your own conclusions that differ from those of a religion in any way.......you're not actually part of the religion as you don't believe 100% what it states, what it tells you to believe.

Yup...you have to investigate everything...I feel it's in our nature to do so...Where you stop, is where you're stuck....BUT seeing proofs do help to make up ones mind....one that has caused me to look at the quantum physics field...There I feel I have found proof of something...something completely different..Something that cannot be put neatly into a box and called "Control the people." In fact, as I have stated else where...It would, in my opinion, do away with religion....and all the prejudices and strife that has hurt so many people.

Though spirituality like Buddhism is very close to many aspects of it.

Originally posted by masterbruce
For many young kids (adults), Christmas (religion) is a day when Santa Claus (God) will deliver them their presents (their eternal happiness). They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him? Well, through the years of their life since their birth, their parents (Church) have told them that Santa Claus (God) is very real and exists. Also, their lives are not perfect, so its very comforting and convenient to believe an entity so nice as Santa Claus (God) exists, in a word, it MAKES their daily meaningless lives that much easier to swallow. So, they go with the program, taking in every word of their Parents (Church) as truth and overlooking the inconsistencies as unimportant, never questioning anything, and when confronted, simply and effortlessly state the word "FAITH"...which effectively ends any logical argument at that point. After all, what argument can be used to disprove faith? I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it.

Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so.

1. Santa claus existed as a man named, or now named as Saint Nicholas.

2. The parents say themselves that todays Santa doesn't exist, unlike whoever was supposed to have made up god.

3. "Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so."
Atleast Christians aren't sad enough to consider themselves unimportant, unlike atheists whom think they are important even though their beliefs say the opposite.

Those who don't believe in a god think life revolves around luck, although science doesn't agree. Many atheists believe in science, it doesn't mix, science says that life revolves around reason just like religions do but atheists think it's about luck.

If purpose/reason is what the universe is about it means there must have been something or someone to spark the purpose, like a god making a reason for mans existance.

4. "I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it."
Because there is no book of it recording what this creature has done to create the universe etc it was clearly just made up by you right now, unlike Christianity which has a book recording what happened, and if you ask some other religions also have the same recordings as christianity.

5. "They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him?" That's the most pathetic thing i've ever read on the forums EVER.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357148&from=thread&pagenumber=10#post4683242

Look there for answers.

my wife's always trying to get me to read her books on Buddhism too.......she has tons of books about all religions.....learning about them is pretty much her past time. She tells me I would agree with about 90% of what it has to offer.......and she knows me best.......but then again, I wouldn't be a Buddhist. Unless I believed 100% I would merely be a person who's personal beliefs are pretty comparible to Buddhism.

Originally posted by masterbruce


Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. .

So I guess people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi were very weak and meek brainless individuals. And so were their followers who held the same beliefs. Nice summary you made there...

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
1. Santa claus existed as a man named, or now named as Saint Nicholas.

2. The parents say themselves that todays Santa doesn't exist, unlike whoever was supposed to have made up god.

3. "Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so."
Atleast Christians aren't sad enough to consider themselves unimportant, unlike atheists whom think they are important even though their beliefs say the opposite.

Those who don't believe in a god think life revolves around luck, although science doesn't agree. Many atheists believe in science, it doesn't mix, science says that life revolves around reason just like religions do but atheists think it's about luck.

If purpose/reason is what the universe is about it means there must have been something or someone to spark the purpose, like a god making a reason for mans existance.

4. "I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it."
Because there is no book of it recording what this creature has done to create the universe etc it was clearly just made up by you right now, unlike Christianity which has a book recording what happened, and if you ask some other religions also have the same recordings as christianity.

5. "They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him?" That's the most pathetic thing i've ever read on the forums EVER.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357148&from=thread&pagenumber=10#post4683242

Look there for answers.

1. Sure Saint Nicholas existed, just like a guy named Jesus. But did Saint Nicholas actually ride reindeers and stuff himself down chimneys...um no. He was exaggerated into a myth, just like you know who.

2. My point is that if you hear the same message for the entirety of your life regardless of how false it may be, you tend to believe it without any evidence.

3. Atheists think the world revolves around luck...since when? Actually come to think of it, luck would be a better explanation of how our world works than the belief of the existence of a benevolent god. I mean why else would very good innocent people suffer horrible fates while evil people succeed...luck would be a rather satisfying answer, at least more so than a supposedly good god who turns the other eye or doesnt give a damn.

4. Greeks wrote book about Zeus, Poseidon, etc, ...Norse had Odin, Thor etc. Aztecs had written literature about taking living hearts for sacrifice to their gods...so does having something written down prove the paucity of its existence? NO

Originally posted by masterbruce


3. Atheists think the world revolves around luck...since when? Actually come to think of it, luck would be a better explanation of how our world works than the belief of the existence of a benevolent god. I mean why else would very good innocent people suffer horrible fates while evil people succeed...luck would be a rather satisfying answer, at least more so than a supposedly good god who turns the other eye or doesnt give a damn.
NO

I agree with what you've said, but as for things being "Luck"...I don't believe that....There is something else goin on. Nothing Biblical, but somethng else.

no Bruce................DON'T!!!!!!!!

this kid is 14 years old........and a dim one at that. Do not reply to him.....he will just eat up your time replying to his incoherent/uneducated posts. Stick with Shaky, myself, Atlantis and Dancer...................

Originally posted by Evil Dead
no Bruce................DON'T!!!!!!!!

this kid is 14 years old........and a dim one at that. Do not reply to him.....he will just eat up your time replying to his incoherent/uneducated posts. Stick with Shaky, myself, Atlantis and Dancer...................



What about little ol me????????

I hadn't seen your post yet!

Hey, I've been talkin all along....well, mostly on other forums though...Hey, I've been on the PF too you know.

Ah...It's because widsom is woman......

ok thanks for the warning, evil dead

i kinda want to see what his response to my rebuttal will be

whatever it is......I assure you you'll be amused. Check out the last 4-5 pages of my "Why I'm better than god" thread...............this kid says he's 14 and I still think he's lying about his age.

debbiejo........I hadn't seen you post in this thread yet. I was listing people who were currently posting in it................

Originally posted by masterbruce
ok thanks for the warning, evil dead

i kinda want to see what his response to my rebuttal will be



You'll only get caught up in repeating yourself....going in circles.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
my wife's always trying to get me to read her books on Buddhism too.......she has tons of books about all religions.....learning about them is pretty much her past time. She tells me I would agree with about 90% of what it has to offer.......and she knows me best.......but then again, I wouldn't be a Buddhist. Unless I believed 100% I would merely be a person who's personal beliefs are pretty comparible to Buddhism.

As you wish. I have no such restrictions in my life. I do not agree with Buddhism 100%, but Buddhism is not handed down from God. Buddhism is a teaching that has to do with how to be happy in life. For me, that is good enough.

Is your wife on this forum also?

Originally posted by Evil Dead

debbiejo........I hadn't seen you post in this thread yet. I was listing people who were currently posting in it................

That's fair....I usually just love to read this one..and laugh....

don't forget the frustration of the other party not having a clue what you're talking about.......or even what half of the words you are using mean.

no Shaky.......she's not much into the internet. I come on here and play around to amuse myself.........she reads, sews, whatever.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
don't forget the frustration of the other party not having a clue what you're talking about.......or even what half of the words you are using mean.

no Shaky.......she's not much into the Internet. I come on here and play around to amuse myself.........she reads, sews, whatever.

Thank you.

She would get along with my wife, she's not into the Internet, and reads and sews.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Actually come to think of it, luck would be a better explanation of how our world works than the belief of the existence of a benevolent god. I mean why else would very good innocent people suffer horrible fates while evil people succeed...luck would be a rather satisfying answer, at least more so than a supposedly good god who turns the other eye or doesnt give a damn.

Nothing happens because of luck...

I know what your point was and I'm a little off topic, sorry I have to say this. It's like chemistry, you add vinegar and baking soda together with will get a reaction, however the real world is so complicated that its hard to know who's mixing what, so it seems like luck.

well I mean luck as in probability, chance...not that there is inherent good luck or bad luck

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothing happens because of luck...

I know what your point was and I'm a little off topic, sorry I have to say this. It's like chemistry, you add vinegar and baking soda together with will get a reaction, however the real world is so complicated that its hard to know who's mixing what, so it seems like luck.

I agree...there is more to luck then we think...and BTW....I can knit too. There from Santa Clause.

Now, we need to make a thread about luck....

Originally posted by masterbruce
well I mean luck as in probability, chance...not that there is inherent good luck or bad luck
I understand, but I don't believe in that ether. All is cause and effect. That's just me. and my crazy ideas.

I don't believe in luck.........or probability/chance..........

even a flip of a coin could be called 100% accurately if one were able to take into account all the variables that determine the outcome.....air density, angle, friction, force, etc.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I don't believe in luck.........or probability/chance..........

even a flip of a coin could be called 100% accurately if one were able to take into account all the variables that determine the outcome.....air density, angle, friction, force, etc.

Nope, it's a connectedness...it works with the "Law of Attraction"...you attract what you draw to your self....you can influence your luck..part of the quantum thing.

I'll take that to mean you can subconciously alter the above mentioned variables to your favor by being interconnected with them.........

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I'll take that to mean you can subconciously alter the above mentioned variables to your favor by being interconnected with them.........

yup..interconnected by sub particles that are in everything...and can be influenced by other forces what ever they might be.

good.......

'cause for a minute there I thought you were saying, "no......variables like force, air density, etc. have nothing to do with it....."...........then I remembered you're smarter than that.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I don't believe in luck.........or probability/chance..........

even a flip of a coin could be called 100% accurately if one were able to take into account all the variables that determine the outcome.....air density, angle, friction, force, etc.

that would still be probability/chance...100% is still a probability

bah........****er........you know what I meant. you caught me on a technicality. Replace the words "100% accurately" in my post with "definitively".


good show on catching me on the technicality though.........

Originally posted by masterbruce
that would still be probability/chance...100% is still a probability

Is probability different from chance? I've always seem them as different.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
good.......

'cause for a minute there I thought you were saying, "no......variables like force, air density, etc. have nothing to do with it....."...........then I remembered you're smarter than that.

And I didn't go to college..

Originally posted by debbiejo
And I didn't go to college..


It shows

Got ya...

college only teaches knowledge..........not intelligence. I'm just as intelligent now as I was before I went to college. Unless you are interested in learning specific data.......college is useless, other than not having as many occupational oppertunities without it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It shows

Got ya...

Remember Buddhists don't believe in god and are evil...OH..no that the other guy.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
college only teaches knowledge..........not intelligence. I'm just as intelligent now as I was before I went to college. Unless you are interested in learning specific data.......college is useless, other than not having as many occupational oppertunities without it.

The only thing I learned in collage is how to learn.

Have we ran out of topic?

I think so........

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The only thing I learned in collage is how to learn.

Have we ran out of topic?

Start a new one....How about coincidences and synchronises are NOT what they seem? But you'd have to go to the PF for that....

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I think so........

Where are the Chieftains when you need them?


Send in the Christians
There have to be Christians
Well maybe next year...

we need a science/theory forum........

Originally posted by Evil Dead
we need a science/theory forum........

Can we request that?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
we need a science/theory forum........

yep, but there wouldn't be many there....PF...is usually a good bet.

I bet it would catch on.............there are alot of members I've seen come through here in the past 2 years or so who just got bored with everything here and left...........but could sit and talk science and theory all day long. Much like myself, they'd try to find ways to work it into discussions about other topics as to not get it deleted or moved to general discussion

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f75/t346511.html

Look what I've found

Originally posted by debbiejo
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f75/t346511.html

Look what I've found

What a lucky find.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What a lucky find.

No such thing....ALL PLANNED!!

I'm talking to people.........

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I did.

People stop believing in Santa because they learn more about the world around them and realize how impractical/impossible it is for a fat man to travel around the world in one night, sliding down chimneys, leaving presents for good boys and girls. Same thing for me.....just insert Jesus over Santa.


Yes and some people learn more about the world around them and realize that it's highly probable that we are not here by some unbelivable random chance.With most people i've met who are atheist it comes down to not wanting to conform to religous rules.Some people (I belive Debbie Jo and Shakyamunison are two of these people) still hold strong religous belifes,but go against the grain of what they where taught because they see past the BS.This doesn't mean they have outgrown religon.They just simply find a new way of understanding.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Yes and some people learn more about the world around them and realize that it's highly probable that we are not here by some unbelivable random chance.With most people i've met who are atheist it comes down to not wanting to conform to religious rules.Some people (I belive Debbie Jo and Shakyamunison are two of these people) still hold strong religious belifes,but go against the grain of what they where taught because they see past the BS.This doesn't mean they have outgrown religon.They just simply find a new way of understanding.

Yes, very correct. I made a chose to be religious because it makes me happy. I picked a good religion that focused on positive things and would let me believe what I wanted too. I "outgrow it" but then realized the benefit I had lost. Thanks for the kind words.

first man on moon neil armstrong Christian
and he lived a happy life went to harvard and all that
there are freaking tons of celebrity that are christian
in my life i havent met one person that regretted being a christain
if u are like 100% sure that God doesnt exist
then tell me the answer to these question
lance armstrong how he beated cancer
one of my close friend, one night snorted like 6 hydrocrodine and then he drank a bunch of alcohol
and then all of a sudden he felt really really bad....
so he went home and woke his parents up and he was telling all the stuff that he did(confessing)
but he was too messed up to even speak to them so
he grabbed his mom and dads hand and he started praying "Lord please get all the drugs out of my body so i can talk to my parents"
and so on while praying all of a sudden my friend started nose bleeding like crazy, he bled like a gallon and then all of a sudden it stopped. he didnt put his head back or anything to stop the bleeding, it just stopped right away and he was completely fine
no alcohol in his body and no hydrocodine in his body.
he was completely fine

if christianity is fake how come it has never been proven to be fake..

movie exorcist and a movie coming out exorcism of emily rose
based on a true story....
tell me the answer to those

answer my question then u can question me and as a human being
i will try to answer urs

chrisitianity is real allright it is what they belive in that is the question at hand

Originally posted by jacobo0o
first man on moon neil armstrong Christian
and he lived a happy life went to harvard and all that
there are freaking tons of celebrity that are christian
in my life i havent met one person that regretted being a christain
if u are like 100% sure that God doesnt exist
then tell me the answer to these question
lance armstrong how he beated cancer
one of my close friend, one night snorted like 6 hydrocrodine and then he drank a bunch of alcohol
and then all of a sudden he felt really really bad....
so he went home and woke his parents up and he was telling all the stuff that he did(confessing)
but he was too messed up to even speak to them so
he grabbed his mom and dads hand and he started praying "Lord please get all the drugs out of my body so i can talk to my parents"
and so on while praying all of a sudden my friend started nose bleeding like crazy, he bled like a gallon and then all of a sudden it stopped. he didnt put his head back or anything to stop the bleeding, it just stopped right away and he was completely fine
no alcohol in his body and no hydrocodine in his body.
he was completely fine

if christianity is fake how come it has never been proven to be fake..

movie exorcist and a movie coming out exorcism of emily rose
based on a true story....
tell me the answer to those

answer my question then u can question me and as a human being
i will try to answer urs

I have a invisible 30 foot dragon guiding me everyday, can you disprove its existence? NO...does that mean it does exist just because you can't disprove it...NO

As for the prayer thing, there is an easy explanation. Let's say 20 people who are about to die all pray, probably 17 of them will die and 3 will survive. The 3 that live believe their prayers allowed them to live, but the 17 others whose prayers did not help at all are simply forgotten.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I have a invisible 30 foot dragon guiding me everyday, can you disprove its existence? NO...does that mean it does exist just because you can't disprove it...NO

.

Can I see it....I want to believe....I really want to....

he he what do you wanna see

Originally posted by finti
he he what do you wanna see

I just saw this.... .....His dragon....the 30 foot one.

Originally posted by masterbruce
1. Sure Saint Nicholas existed, just like a guy named Jesus. But did Saint Nicholas actually ride reindeers and stuff himself down chimneys...um no. He was exaggerated into a myth, just like you know who.

2. My point is that if you hear the same message for the entirety of your life regardless of how false it may be, you tend to believe it without any evidence.

3. Atheists think the world revolves around luck...since when? Actually come to think of it, luck would be a better explanation of how our world works than the belief of the existence of a benevolent god. I mean why else would very good innocent people suffer horrible fates while evil people succeed...luck would be a rather satisfying answer, at least more so than a supposedly good god who turns the other eye or doesnt give a damn.

4. Greeks wrote book about Zeus, Poseidon, etc, ...Norse had Odin, Thor etc. Aztecs had written literature about taking living hearts for sacrifice to their gods...so does having something written down prove the paucity of its existence? NO

1. The difference is, in the Bible Jesus says there is a god, and the Bible says he did miracles and so did the prophets. But Santa doesn't even have a book, and the original story of Saint Nicholas which we all do actually know/believe is true says nothing about reindeer unlike the Bible which does actually talk abut a God and Miracles.

2. And do i believe in you? Did I say you exist? I have a weird feeling you're pulling yourself into a U turn here.
Are you saying gods miracles are false? They never happened? But you just said Jesus existed! I know you exist, because who else could be making those messages? And you claim to be someone, god has said he was there too.

By the way god wouldn't lie about his name, there would be no point.

3. I don't know what you mean by a god who turns a blind eye and doesn't give a damn, have you heard of Noah and the Flood? The rest is under the next quote.

4. What has happened recently goes against what their books would claim, do you know anyone who believes in those religions? Plus they are more likely than having no god atall.



Originally posted by debbiejo
I agree with what you've said, but as for things being "Luck"...I don't believe that....There is something else goin on. Nothing Biblical, but somethng else.

The reason I think Atheists say it all happened by chance is because thay say that the moon is in the right position to block the sun by chance, it says earth harbours life by chance etc etc. Science on the other hand only says this if it knew the answer to the existance of god.



Originally posted by Evil Dead
no Bruce................DON'T!!!!!!!!

this kid is 14 years old........and a dim one at that. Do not reply to him.....he will just eat up your time replying to his incoherent/uneducated posts. Stick with Shaky, myself, Atlantis and Dancer...................

1. I see you have never heard of freedom of choice who talk to, plus you just called Debbiejo dim and uneducated. As she agreed with my view.

2. So i have actually proven your whole idea of no god completely wrong, you are just going to ignore me because you don't want to believe the truth and you don't want others to fall to the truth.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I have a invisible 30 foot dragon guiding me everyday, can you disprove its existence? NO...does that mean it does exist just because you can't disprove it...NO

As for the prayer thing, there is an easy explanation. Let's say 20 people who are about to die all pray, probably 17 of them will die and 3 will survive. The 3 that live believe their prayers allowed them to live, but the 17 others whose prayers did not help at all are simply forgotten.

1. The first bit i have already explained wrong either here or somewhere else.

2. Very Simple, If god let all Christians live then noone would ever die.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy

1. I see you have never heard of freedom of choice who talk to, plus you just called Debbiejo dim and uneducated. As she agreed with my view.



Could elaborate on that a little further, cause I don't recall that...Are you taking things out of context...hmmmm?

I've always considered myself a bright and shining star.....not dim at all...

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
1. The difference is, in the Bible Jesus says there is a god, and the Bible says he did miracles and so did the prophets. But Santa doesn't even have a book, and the original story of Saint Nicholas which we all do actually know/believe is true says nothing about reindeer unlike the Bible which does actually talk abut a God and Miracles.
A couple of thousand years ago a carpenter and political dissident named Yeshua ben Yosef existed. He is the basis of the Jesus myth in the same way Sinterklaas is the basis of Santa. Children are regaled with the miraculous feats of Santa, in the same way adults are regaled with the miraculous feats of Jesus. Fiction is fiction, whether it's written or spoken.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
2. And do i believe in you? Did I say you exist? I have a weird feeling you're pulling yourself into a U turn here.
Are you saying gods miracles are false? They never happened? But you just said Jesus existed! I know you exist, because who else could be making those messages? And you claim to be someone, god has said he was there too.
By the way god wouldn't lie about his name, there would be no point.
Read above. A man named Joshua existed. God posted on KMC?
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
3. I don't know what you mean by a god who turns a blind eye and doesn't give a damn, have you heard of Noah and the Flood? The rest is under the next quote.
What has happened recently goes against what their books would claim, do you know anyone who believes in those religions? Plus they are more likely than having no god atall.
Current knowledge goes against what your book claims.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
The reason I think Atheists say it all happened by chance is because thay say that the moon is in the right position to block the sun by chance, it says earth harbours life by chance etc etc. Science on the other hand only says this if it knew the answer to the existance of god.
*Deciphering gibberish.* Go ask a physicist how a lunar eclipse occurs.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
1. I see you have never heard of freedom of choice who talk to, plus you just called Debbiejo dim and uneducated. As she agreed with my view.
I don't presume to speak for debbiejo (as you seem to have) but I don't recall her agreeing with you.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
2. So i have actually proven your whole idea of no god completely wrong, you are just going to ignore me because you don't want to believe the truth and you don't want others to fall to the truth.
You prove nothing but your own ignorance of the posts others have made.

been trying to tell him that for awhile now, but in his ignorant arrogance he misses out on this

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A couple of thousand years ago a carpenter and political dissident named Yeshua ben Yosef existed. He is the basis of the Jesus myth in the same way Sinterklaas is the basis of Santa. Children are regaled with the miraculous feats of Santa, in the same way adults are regaled with the miraculous feats of Jesus. Fiction is fiction, whether it's written or spoken.

Read above. A man named Joshua existed. God posted on KMC?

Current knowledge goes against what your book claims.

*Deciphering gibberish.* Go ask a physicist how a lunar eclipse occurs.

I don't presume to speak for debbiejo (as you seem to have) but I don't recall her agreeing with you.

You prove nothing but your own ignorance of the posts others have made.

1. Words on paper stay, words from the mouth can be changed much easier because the original words dissappear. So you say Jesus exists but but the miracles never happened? That's weird because Jesus DID the miracles with god, there would have been no reason to lie about the miracles when the news was being told. I could say evolution was a conspiracy, it's just as likely.

2. God posted in the Bible, are we getting somewhere here? Your existance on this page could be fake, the only proof i will ever see is if i met you in real life/you will only believe in god if you see him or see a convincing enough miracle.

3. Does the bible say that the earth is layed on the back of a giant tortoise? No, It says that it was hung in nothing. Does the Bible worship a rock in the shape of a human? No, it worships a spirit. As a fact the Bible rarely goes against science, The Bible doesn't even have to follow science atall but most of the time it does. Do I have to say again that god made science?

4. Go back a few pages and you'll see where she agrees.

5. That was specifically for Evil Dead.

of course there would be reasons to lie about it, reason is actually simple. To boost the attention

You think people want attention? Did ALL the religions want attention then?

I know people wants attention, and so does all religions, without attention how do you spread the word

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
1. Words on paper stay, words from the mouth can be changed much easier because the original words dissappear. So you say Jesus exists but but the miracles never happened? That's weird because Jesus DID the miracles with god, there would have been no reason to lie about the miracles when the news was being told. I could say evolution was a conspiracy, it's just as likely.
Don't put words in my mouth, I never said your mythical Jesus exists. I said in all likelihood a man named Yehoshua ben Yosef existed. He has long since decomposed.
I never said The Bible was a conspiracy. I implied it was a perpetuated myth. Your misinterpretation of what I intended is just one example showing the written word is just as mutable as the spoken word.
You could say evolution was a conspiracy, of course since your claim is baseless it holds no weight.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
2. God posted in the Bible, are we getting somewhere here? Your existance on this page could be fake, the only proof i will ever see is if i met you in real life/you will only believe in god if you see him or see a convincing enough miracle.
Human hands wrote a book. My existence can be verified.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
3. Does the bible say that the earth is layed on the back of a giant tortoise?
If it did, would you believe it when all evidence points to this being false?
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
No, It says that it was hung in nothing. Does the Bible worship a rock in the shape of a human? No, it worships a spirit. As a fact the Bible rarely goes against science, The Bible doesn't even have to follow science atall but most of the time it does. Do I have to say again that god made science?
The Bible rarely goes against science?
No matter how many times you post that it still makes me chuckle.
You can say "god made science" all you want. It doesn't make it true.

take it easy on the kid.......

he claims he's 14........but I still suspect he's even younger. I don't believe any high school student could have such a massive misunderstanding/lack of knowledge of the world around them. They do teach this stuff in school.............I can only surmise that he hasn't yet reached the point in his schooling that they begin teaching these things.

you should check out the "why I'm better than god" thread. This kid claims the moon blocks the sun, whales extract oxygen from H20 like fish, human existence can not be proven by DNA tests.....nor the study of the materials humans produce (excrement, urine, saliva, bile, blood, etc.).............he states there is a massive orginization of Muslims in Asia, planning to form a new country to dominate the rest of the world (I guess he doesn't know exactly what a country is......or that there aren't many Muslims in Asia as Islam isn't exactly a huge religion in the orient)...............he claims the Bible and all it's contents including men walking on water and turning water into wine (which is physically impossible since water does not contain sugar) have all be proven scientifically........he claims the surface of the earth should be "getting lower" because people and animals have been walking on it so long, rubbing it away........he claims the earth is only 7,000 years old..........I can go on forever.

To top it off.......he claims he learned all of this knowledge from his parents. I wish I knew their names so I could have them arrested for child abuse.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
take it easy on the kid.......

he claims he's 14........but I still suspect he's even younger. I don't believe any high school student could have such a massive misunderstanding/lack of knowledge of the world around them. They do teach this stuff in school.............I can only surmise that he hasn't yet reached the point in his schooling that they begin teaching these things.

you should check out the "why I'm better than god" thread. This kid claims the moon blocks the sun, whales extract oxygen from H20 like fish, human existence can not be proven by DNA tests.....nor the study of the materials humans produce (excrement, urine, saliva, bile, blood, etc.).............he states there is a massive orginization of Muslims in Asia, planning to form a new country to dominate the rest of the world (I guess he doesn't know exactly what a country is......or that there aren't many Muslims in Asia as Islam isn't exactly a huge religion in the orient)...............he claims the Bible and all it's contents including men walking on water and turning water into wine (which is physically impossible since water does not contain sugar) have all be proven scientifically........he claims the surface of the earth should be "getting lower" because people and animals have been walking on it so long, rubbing it away........he claims the earth is only 7,000 years old..........I can go on forever.

To top it off.......he claims he learned all of this knowledge from his parents. I wish I knew their names so I could have them arrested for child abuse.

This is extremist Christian thinking. I know because I was raised in it. You know the kind of people who would fly airplanes into buildings if god told them too.

I would fly an airplane into a building if god told me to.......and I'm not Christian.

As I stated in the other thread on the subject........if a force could prove to me that it was responsible for creating our universe and everything in it......I would do anything it wished.

Of course for evidence I would request a detailed diagram of the Universe, drawn before the big bang.......in a sealed envelope with a pre-big bang post mark from the United States Postal Service to verify it's authenticity.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I would fly an airplane into a building if god told me to.......and I'm not Christian.

As I stated in the other thread on the subject........if a force could prove to me that it was responsible for creating our universe and everything in it......I would do anything it wished.

Of course for evidence I would request a detailed diagram of the Universe, drawn before the big bang.......in a sealed envelope with a pre-big bang post mark from the United States Postal Service to verify it's authenticity.

The important difference is, these fundamentalist would not require such evidence, as a matter of fact, they would reject it, these people have blind faith.

god damn it. I can't even get a or an lol out of you can I?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
god damn it. I can't even get a or an lol out of you can I?

I'm sorry, I have big scars from my past over this subject. I go to hell when I see it, and in hell there is no or .

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


I don't presume to speak for debbiejo (as you seem to have) but I don't recall her agreeing with you.

You prove nothing but your own ignorance of the posts others have made.

Chibi boy...could you please copy what I said?....I'm not sure where you are coming from.....And I see I'm not the only one.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The important difference is, these fundamentalist would not require such evidence, as a matter of fact, they would reject it, these people have blind faith.

Skakyamunison,being a Buddhist you also know that a lot of Buddhist culture teaches Gods die also.Correct me if i'm wrong,but if a God told a Buddhist to fly a plain into building,couldn't they just shrug it off as childish God play?

I know that sounds funny,but I think you'll understand.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Skakyamunison,being a Buddhist you also know that a lot of Buddhist culture teaches Gods die also.Correct me if i'm wrong,but if a God told a Buddhist to fly a plain into building,couldn't they just shrug it off as childish God play?

I know that sounds funny,but I think you'll understand.

Buddha did his teaching in a time when his world was dominated by Hinduism. Hinduism has the most gods of any religion, and these gods lived and died just like us. Buddha did not talk about gods, this is what he said; " Many statements I have left unsaid. Why have I left them unsaid? Because they are not helpful. They are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to peace knowledge, awakening, nirvana" Majjhima Nikaya 63. Now Buddha was talking about the secrets to the universe but I assume the nature of God would be one of these. So I think Buddha would ask god to do something more constructive with his time.

better check up on your geography skills there Evil Dead . Asia is home to the largest muslim population in the world + the fact that the middle east belongs to the Asian continent as well. Besides the middle eastern countries you have countries like Pakistan , Afghanistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Southern Part of Thailand ,Turkey, Dagestan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan,

Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world if I remember correctly.
If we're talking continental landmasses defined by convention, then yes the Middle East, and the South Asian subcontinent are part of Asia.
If we're talking continental plates, then it gets a little more complicated.
http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/acolvil/plates/world_plates.jpg

Irregardless the only extremist Muslim conspirators I know of that want to overthrow the west aren't exactly a big secret... they're called Al Qaeda. I don't recall hearing about them trying to form a new country.

correct

Continents as in land masses
taken they were close with the Afghanistan Taliban regime it aint all that far from the truth

yeah.....geography isn't really my strong point......

Asian Countries:

Bangladesh
Bhutan
Cambodia
China
India
Indonesia
Japan
Laos
Malaysia
Mongolia
Myanmar
Nepal
N Korea
Pakistan
Philippines
Singapore
S Korea
Sri Lanka
Taiwan
Thailand
Vietnam

of those, only Bangladesh, Pakistan and Indonesia have Muslim communities. Still........Europe has the largest Muslim population. I do however stand corrected.........Asia has some Muslims, not very many relatively speaking.......North America has about the same number of Muslims........France itself in Europe has more than double the Muslim population of those three countries combined.

that list aint complete great parts of Russia and all the former Soviet republic in central Asia, + Afghanistan, the middle east countries and Turkey aint listed,

ehh no France have a total population of 60 million as of Pakistan has 150 million, Inodnesia has 240 million, Bangladesh 140 million, all of the 3 countries mentioned has way over double the amount of people France have.

You said it your self geography aint your strong point, now you showed us it as well

why would I list any European countries........I listed every Asian country. Do a google search real quick........ As a matter of fact, I did a copy/paste from an Asian info site.......as stated, not my subject.......I can only post what information I'm presented with from google. If Asian sites are faulty, sorry.

you are correct........I found my error. You however are stating that every person of those countries are Muslim, they are not.............certainly more than France........still not 100% of the population. You represent it as if there are 240 million muslims in Indonesia...........there are not. You are correct.......just exaggerating your figures.

no I represented the total figures of the 4 countries in question being the 3 asian are considered to be muslim countries and France is not , the figures speak for it self. If people are of the belief that the entire number mentioned represents just one religion they need to pass this debate in silence cause they aint fit to be in it.

if you refer to Turkey and Russia the fact is tha these countries have some land part in Europe and a bigger part in Asia.


then goggle needs to be educated too.


wanna know about Asia, follow this link

upon looking it up in the Encylopedia.........you win. I have little knowledge of eastern geography.........The encylopedia doesn't even list Asia officially as a continent........only as part of Eurasia.......whose borders are mostly undefined between the two. I'll take your word for it.......you know the subject better than I. You learn something every day.

Eurasia is the continental plate which both Europe and Asia are a part of . Look at the attachment xmarksthespot had a few posts back

Originally posted by Evil Dead
take it easy on the kid.......

he claims he's 14........but I still suspect he's even younger. I don't believe any high school student could have such a massive misunderstanding/lack of knowledge of the world around them. They do teach this stuff in school.............I can only surmise that he hasn't yet reached the point in his schooling that they begin teaching these things.

you should check out the "why I'm better than god" thread. This kid claims the moon blocks the sun, whales extract oxygen from H20 like fish, human existence can not be proven by DNA tests.....nor the study of the materials humans produce (excrement, urine, saliva, bile, blood, etc.).............he states there is a massive orginization of Muslims in Asia, planning to form a new country to dominate the rest of the world (I guess he doesn't know exactly what a country is......or that there aren't many Muslims in Asia as Islam isn't exactly a huge religion in the orient)...............he claims the Bible and all it's contents including men walking on water and turning water into wine (which is physically impossible since water does not contain sugar) have all be proven scientifically........he claims the surface of the earth should be "getting lower" because people and animals have been walking on it so long, rubbing it away........he claims the earth is only 7,000 years old..........I can go on forever.

To top it off.......he claims he learned all of this knowledge from his parents. I wish I knew their names so I could have them arrested for child abuse.

1. If i COULD see the examples of your existance from here then yes you can prove to me you exist, but so far i haven't seen any proof but the messages you send (To translate this into proof of god, the only proof you know of is the Bible, it doesn't mean he doesn't exist).

2. Have you heard of an eclipse? I forgot, the moon doesn't cover the sun enough to make an eclipse *sarcasm*

3. Whales do breathe air you know.

4. You are ignoring me, ASIA IS NOT PLANNING WORLD DOMINATION, I NEVER SAID THEY WERE! I SAID SOMEONE WHO CAME FROM THE COUNTRY CREATED BY MUSLIMS IN ASIA ETC WOULD TRY AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

5. You seem to be the one under 14 at the moment, you miss the point all the time and you can't get it into your head that god can do anything.
You are either forgetting everything and have worse memory than me, just plain dumb, or you're just ignoring the FACTS.

6. "he claims the surface of the earth should be "getting lower" because people and animals have been walking on it so long, rubbing it away........he claims the earth is only 7,000 years old..........I can go on forever."
Well why should it be getting higher? You can't claim the earth isn't 7000 years old because you don't even know for sure that god doesn't exist, this is just pure ignorance.


7. To top it off I wish i knew your parents names so i could have them arrested for child abuse as they never taught you common-sense . Plus through all the messages you have sent i have noticed you are even more ignorant than people have claimed i can be.

oh lord.......I know I shouldn't but damn,........



as stated like seven times now..........fact or fiction does not rely on the knowledge contained in Chibi Boy's head. You do not need know I exist for it to be a fact. I'm sure there are many facts of this universe you do not know..........it does not make them any less fact.



actually, this is the first time you mentioned an eclipse.......and only because you just read what one of the more intelligent members posted (they specificly mentioned it). In your original post on the subject.......you stated that the moon had a specific purpose, to block the sun........and that could not happen "by chance"......god did it.



yes, I know. You stated they extracted oxygen from H20.......as you stated, "as all sea creatures do". You implied they used gills to extract oxygen from water.......before learning they were mammals and breathed air just as you and I. I see a lot of back peddling from you......stating idiotic things you believe to be true.......being told you are wrong and presented with the facts........then attempting to pass facts off as if you had originally posted them. You know, I can simply put url links in to direct everybody on this forum to the comments you originally made before being educated on these subjects by other members.



again, you seem to not know the definition of the word "fact". Here, I'll help you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact

in all your ramblings........you claim god to be a fact, furthermore that everything you attribute to god to be fact..........simply because you believe it without any corroborating evidence. So you do not have faith in god? Faith is a direct contradiction to the word fact. To have faith means to believe in that which is not proven to be fact. Try to talk your way out of that one kid.



getting higher? are you that dumb? All matter that exists on this earth stays on this earth unless we propell it into space. The Earth's gravity prevents any material from escaping it's gravitational pull. You can not get rid of rocks, you can merely move them to another place..............when you say "pure ignorance", were you referring to the several lines you posted before?




doesn't seem to be the concensus around here. As a matter of fact, several members and myself have been discussing you..........trying to figure out if you really are that dumb or if you just post outlandish nonsense to garner attention because it's the only way anyone here has ever given you any.

really?.........let me use that url link idea............you can read exactly what you posted.......



15th post down.....



14th post down.........4th paragraph......... http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357148&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=8

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Human hands wrote a book. My existence can be verified.

If it did, would you believe it when all evidence points to this being false?

The Bible rarely goes against science?
No matter how many times you post that it still makes me chuckle.
You can say "god made science" all you want. It doesn't make it true.

1. True, yet i could think everything written by you is fake, just a lie. What people think about the Bible.

2. I wouldn't beleive in the tortoise because it's the planet we live on, yet I could think what all those astronauts said was a lie. The difference is, the Bible doesn't say the Earth was carried by a tortoise, the Bible says that earth was shapeless, which could mean:

a. The earth has no specific corners/is a sphere.

b. The earth is stretched across the universe.

And you know which is true.

The proof against christianity or the supposed proof was all most likely to have been supported by god, but god wouldn't have changed the shape of the planet for no reason atall.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
really?.........let me use that url link idea............you can read exactly what you posted.......



14th post down.........4th paragraph......... http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357148&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=8
I said this new country would become the worlds greatest superpower, doesn't mean they'd take over the world, Anti-christ would have just originated from there.
It's like America being the most powerful country on earth, doesn't mean America is gonna take earth over.

Ok, i got whales mixed up with fish, problem with that?

do you read yourself what you write?, you just wrote 3 lines of pure and rambling nonsense

not now.......because you admitted you were wrong.........like Jesus, I forgive......you merely have to ask.

actually a more common mistake than you think

Chibi Boy.......I'm sure it was nothing more than a mild over sight but you never responded to:






you can't have it both ways...........faith or fact. Since you have been eroniously insisting your beliefs are fact..........why do you not have faith in god?


there's nothing wrong with being wrong. I was wrong in this thread.....and readily admitted it to finti. Being wrong does not make you look stupid......it merely shows you don't know everything which I believe none of us on this earth does. What makes a person look stupid is when they are wrong.......presented with the correct evidence......then continue to post on their wrongful statements or ignore the subject altogether.

you did?. no you didnt...................... j/k just had to couldnt resist it

Originally posted by finti
do you read yourself what you write?, you just wrote 3 lines of pure and rambling nonsense
MOST OR ALL OF THE THINGS IN THE BIBLE WHICH SCIENCE DOESN'T AGREE WITH ARE WHEN GOD DOES MIRACLES, AND ONCE YOU EXCEPT HE EXISTS YOU WILL FIND THAT GOD CAN DO THOSE THINGS BECAUSE HE HAS POWER OVER SCIENCE.

so by your defenition...........everything that is proven untrue is a miracle? There have been 13 different species of humans.......all at different stages of evolution.......appearing different from their predecessors. Yet you claim the human race began from two individuals......made in god's own image. Let me guess, it's a miracle the other 12 species of human before us existed........it must also be a miracle that they existed hundreds of thousands of years ago.......when the earth is only 7,000 years old, right?

If god has 13 different images, how is being created in his image special in any way?

the biggest miracle your god could perform was to reveal him/her/itself it is either considered a miracle, or god works in mysterious ways or

Originally posted by Evil Dead
not now.......because you admitted you were wrong.........like Jesus, I forgive......you merely have to ask.



this is toooo much..

"in all your ramblings........you claim god to be a fact, furthermore that everything you attribute to god to be fact..........simply because you believe it without any corroborating evidence. So you do not have faith in god? Faith is a direct contradiction to the word fact. To have faith means to believe in that which is not proven to be fact. Try to talk your way out of that one kid."

Wow, that was a good point.
Faith could be proven as fact, the whole point of faith is to believe someone. The reason I have faith in god is because he is true, and that is when faith becomes fact. When the Bible talks of faith, it says that if you believe in him he is real. This is the link I have been searching for, if fact is opposite to faith it means you can believe NOBODY, even anyones existance. I have faith in many things, and sometimes fact follows faith just as you have faith in my existance.

"actually, this is the first time you mentioned an eclipse.......and only because you just read what one of the more intelligent members posted (they specificly mentioned it). In your original post on the subject.......you stated that the moon had a specific purpose, to block the sun........and that could not happen "by chance"......god did it."
Actually, i knew that before i even came onto these message board, you don't have faith in me i see

I will never believe that god doesn't exist, because I believe i am wrong in saying he doesn't exist.

I believe there's something influencing things...just not what we are told it is....

It's great big and everywhere.shocking

But not scary.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
so by your defenition...........everything that is proven untrue is a miracle? There have been 13 different species of humans.......all at different stages of evolution.......appearing different from their predecessors. Yet you claim the human race began from two individuals......made in god's own image. Let me guess, it's a miracle the other 12 species of human before us existed........it must also be a miracle that they existed hundreds of thousands of years ago.......when the earth is only 7,000 years old, right?

If god has 13 different images, how is being created in his image special in any way?


13 species of humans? How'd you mean that?

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
"in all your ramblings........you claim god to be a fact, furthermore that everything you attribute to god to be fact..........simply because you believe it without any corroborating evidence. So you do not have faith in god? Faith is a direct contradiction to the word fact. To have faith means to believe in that which is not proven to be fact. "


No, Chibi Boy

When I walk into a room I turn on the light. I have faith that the light switch will work. The fact is, the switch could burn out at any time. Fact and faith have nothing to do with each other unless you are talking about poison and evil blind faith. Blind faith is turning on the light and even if it does not work you believe that the light is on and stumble in the darkness. I do not need to check the light switch every time I use it, I have faith that it will work, but if it goes out, I am not stupid, I will not act like it worked when it didn't.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, Chibi Boy

When I walk into a room I turn on the light. I have faith that the light switch will work. The fact is, the switch could burn out at any time. Fact and faith have nothing to do with each other unless you are talking about poison and evil blind faith. Blind faith is turning on the light and even if it does not work you believe that the light is on and stumble in the darkness. I do not need to check the light switch every time I use it, I have faith that it will work, but if it goes out, I am not stupid, I will not act like it worked when it didn't.
That's a very good way of putting it i must admit. The difference between walking into a room and real life is, we still won't know if the lights on or not because we are blind to the truth. If we already have the answer we might not notice it until the end of our lives on earth.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
That's a very good way of putting it i must admit. The difference between walking into a room and real life is, we still won't know if the lights on or not because we are blind to the truth. If we already have the answer we might not notice it until the end of our lives on earth.

The teachings of blind faith are not in the bible.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
That's a very good way of putting it i must admit. The difference between walking into a room and real life is, we still won't know if the lights on or not because we are blind to the truth. If we already have the answer we might not notice it until the end of our lives on earth.

Let me help you with this; if you have a coin in your hand and I say "I have given you a coin", then you say "where is the coin you gave me?" I would reply, "you are blind to the coin in your hand". If you have the truth, you don't need to get the truth, you have it, but having the truth and knowing you have the truth is were most people falter.

yeah I bet that clears it up for him

Originally posted by finti
yeah I bet that clears it up for him

All I can do is try. What would you say different from what I said above?

Chibi Boy...........seems your posts are becoming more intelligable....keep it up.



I'm sorry, that's just inaccurate. A fact is something that has been proven to be true. It is a certainty. Faith is something you believe to be true, despite the fact it has never been proven. The definitions of the two words make them contradictory to each other. It is impossible to be both. If something is a fact, you cannot have faith in it as it has already been proven to be true.



nor should you believe any different. You believe what you believe to be true. All people reserve the same right. My only problem is the way you present your beliefs. You present your beliefs as if they have been proven fact, meaning anybody who believes different from Chibi Boy is wrong. That is very disrespecful to the other 5 billion people on the planet who are not Christians and do not believe what you believe. As a matter of fact, it's also disrespectful to other members of your own religion whom follow a different denomination with different beliefs. Needless to say, that is quite arrogant coming from a 14 year old boy......"5 billion people are wrong, I'm right, that's the end of it".




Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus aethiopicus
Australopithecus boisei
Australopithecus robustus
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens (that's us, today)

actually......there are now 14. It seems a new species of dwarf humans was discovered in October of last year (now that I think about it, I remember watching a show on the Discovery channel about this)......it was found on the island of Flores. It's name is Homo floresiensis.

That's 14 structurally different forms of human. None look the same. Yet the bible says man was created in god's image. This must mean god has 14 different images as all of these men were made in his image, yet look completely different. If that's the case, what's so special about being made in god's image?.......it's not special, it's the rule......not the exception. It doesn't make us special......it merely makes us equal with all the other species of man.

Also, since man was created from two specimens, Adam and Eve.........which species was it?........and what of the other 13 species.....there's no mention of them in the bible, yet they did exist.....

no need to seek what you allready know/no need to get what you allready have. And many of those who have it and know they have it becomes uncertain and insecure

Originally posted by finti
no need to seek what you allready know/no need to get what you allready have. And many of those who have it and know they have it becomes uncertain and insecure

OK, I thought I said that, I just used an image to convey the thought. Some people have a hard time getting a thought if stated straight forward, based on what I have read, Chibi Boy maybe one of these people. That's maybe one of the reasons he's not getting what most of the people are saying to him.

you did indeed say that

Originally posted by Evil Dead
Chibi Boy...........seems your posts are becoming more intelligable....keep it up.



I'm sorry, that's just inaccurate. A fact is something that has been proven to be true. It is a certainty. Faith is something you believe to be true, despite the fact it has never been proven. The definitions of the two words make them contradictory to each other. It is impossible to be both. If something is a fact, you cannot have faith in it as it has already been proven to be true.



nor should you believe any different. You believe what you believe to be true. All people reserve the same right. My only problem is the way you present your beliefs. You present your beliefs as if they have been proven fact, meaning anybody who believes different from Chibi Boy is wrong. That is very disrespecful to the other 5 billion people on the planet who are not Christians and do not believe what you believe. As a matter of fact, it's also disrespectful to other members of your own religion whom follow a different denomination with different beliefs. Needless to say, that is quite arrogant coming from a 14 year old boy......"5 billion people are wrong, I'm right, that's the end of it".




Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus aethiopicus
Australopithecus boisei
Australopithecus robustus
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens (that's us, today)

actually......there are now 14. It seems a new species of dwarf humans was discovered in October of last year (now that I think about it, I remember watching a show on the Discovery channel about this)......it was found on the island of Flores. It's name is Homo floresiensis.

That's 14 structurally different forms of human. None look the same. Yet the bible says man was created in god's image. This must mean god has 14 different images as all of these men were made in his image, yet look completely different. If that's the case, what's so special about being made in god's image?.......it's not special, it's the rule......not the exception. It doesn't make us special......it merely makes us equal with all the other species of man.

Also, since man was created from two specimens, Adam and Eve.........which species was it?........and what of the other 13 species.....there's no mention of them in the bible, yet they did exist.....

Well even though I don't realy belive this most Christians would argue that a lot of Prehistoric men in science are the descendants of Angels who had relations with women or demons.

doh

LOL!

but our current species of man........that which is decended from Adam and Eve was not even on this Earth while 12 of those species existed. If no female Homo Sapiens existed yet, how could they have sex with Angels or Demons to produce offspring? The only way this christian theory could work out is if Australopithecus afarensis was created by god in his own image....and down the line had offspring with angels and demons resulting in the other 13 species. Ofcourse this would also mean that the bible is not about us at all........but about Australopithecus afarensis.......we're an entirely different species, homo sapiens aren't really human.........that would make us some human/angel/demon hybrid.

Originally posted by masterbruce
For many young kids (adults), Christmas (religion) is a day when Santa Claus (God) will deliver them their presents (their eternal happiness). They've never actually seen Santa Claus (God) so why do they believe in him? Well, through the years of their life since their birth, their parents (Church) have told them that Santa Claus (God) is very real and exists. Also, their lives are not perfect, so its very comforting and convenient to believe an entity so nice as Santa Claus (God) exists, in a word, it MAKES their daily meaningless lives that much easier to swallow. So, they go with the program, taking in every word of their Parents (Church) as truth and overlooking the inconsistencies as unimportant, never questioning anything, and when confronted, simply and effortlessly state the word "FAITH"...which effectively ends any logical argument at that point. After all, what argument can be used to disprove faith? I can say that I have faith that an invisible six headed reptilian creature hovers above me everyday guiding me, and you would be the wiser to argue against that, since surely you cannot DISPROVE it.

Summary: Religion is for the weak and meek brainless masses who NEED something to make their pathetic lives a little bit more worthwhile. Now, I'm not saying there is no God like entity, but to buy into the manmade concocted religion (in fact, religions are as diverse as the races of man, its purpose is to put a face to all that we cannot explain, it is also a powerful political device to control the masses). Hope you start questioning your beliefs and not leave everything to "faith" because it is convenient to do so.
1/10 for trolling.
3/10 for originality.

Would you like a cookie, or will the flamefest suit you?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
but our current species of man........that which is decended from Adam and Eve was not even on this Earth while 12 of those species existed. If no female Homo Sapiens existed yet, how could they with Angels or Demons to produce offspring? The only way this christian theory could work out is if Australopithecus afarensis was created by god in his own image....and down the line had offspring with angels and demons resulting in the other 13 species. Ofcourse this would also mean that the bible is not about us at all........but about Australopithecus afarensis.......we're an entirely different species, homo sapiens aren't really human.........that would make us some human/angel/demon hybrid.


I smell a plot for a movie!

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I smell a plot for a movie!

More like a B rate movie, but then again, I like B rate movies.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Well even though I don't realy belive this most Christians would argue that a lot of Prehistoric men in science are the descendants of Angels who had relations with women or demons.

That's where the giants came from...the sons of god having relations with the daughters of men...But then, that could mean many things...maybe there were many gods, maybe that meant godly people, and the daughters of men could of been other nations and not godly believers....But it is true that most churches teach that's why god had to destroy the earth with a flood, and save Noah...because Noah's generations were pure...not filled genes from what ever...to make giants....


sadangel......giants all gone now.....

But I did hear about the little dwarf people.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's where the giants came from...the sons of god having relations with the daughters of men...But then, that could mean many things...maybe there were many gods, maybe that meant godly people, and the daughters of men could of been other nations and not godly believers....But it is true that most churches teach that's why god had to destroy the earth with a flood, and save Noah...because Noah's generations were pure...not filled genes from what ever...to make giants....


sadangel......giants all gone now.....

But I did hear about the little dwarf people.


I saw a program that talked about the giants being Mammoths bone rearranged.

Originally posted by Chibi Boy
1. True, yet i could think everything written by you is fake, just a lie. What people think about the Bible.
You can think whatever you want. Your thoughts can't alter reality.
Read the two scenarios below and see if you can spot the difference.
(A) I write something and say that they are my words. Whether those words are truth or lie, there is insignificant doubt that those are my words. I can verify the truth of my statements with physical evidence.
(B) I write something claiming they are the words of another person. That claim is highly dubious, and cannot be verified as it is impossible to achieve the presence of that other person. Even if I am somehow capable of ascertaining the veracity of that claim, whether the words are truth or not has yet to be addressed. I cannot verify the truth of my statements with physical evidence.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
2. I wouldn't beleive in the tortoise because it's the planet we live on, yet I could think what all those astronauts said was a lie. The difference is, the Bible doesn't say the Earth was carried by a tortoise, the Bible says that earth was shapeless, which could mean:
a. The earth has no specific corners/is a sphere.
b. The earth is stretched across the universe.
And you know which is true.
Frankly I don't know how you come to either conclusion A or conclusion B from a statement claiming the Earth is shapeless. A sphere is a shape. Stretched across the universe doesn't comply well either.
Are you sure you wouldn't believe in the giant tortoise, answer honestly now. The Bible has claims in it as ludicrous about the natural world if not more so than a giant tortoise carrying the Earth, yet you accept those so readily.
Originally posted by Chibi Boy
The proof against christianity or the supposed proof was all most likely to have been supported by god, but god wouldn't have changed the shape of the planet for no reason atall.
I concur with finti. This is just incoherent rambling.

You seem to have a penchant for trying to dig your way out of holes.

what's this giant talk? It's a moot point as most of the 14 species of human which existed before us (two at the same time as us, the dwarves and Neanderthals) were smaller than we are today. Most species average in the lower 5" range.......the Hobbits, or dwarves in the 3" range.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
what's this giant talk? It's a moot point as most of the 14 species of human which existed before us (two at the same time as us, the dwarves and Neanderthals) were smaller than we are today. Most species average in the lower 5" range.......the Hobbits, or dwarves in the 3" range.

What....you don't like giant stories.....I was was responding to Mr smiley...

Giants sleeping, Giant's winning wars
Within their dreams
Till they wake when it's too late
And God's name blaspheme

Killer of giants threatens us all
Mountains of madness standing so tall
Marches of protest not stopping the war
Or the killer of giants
The killer of giants - OZZY

I just noticed I used " instead of '................ammend my previous post. I'm not saying there were 5 inch and 3 inch tall species of humans..........I meant feet, not inches.

good you clared that up cause some would have argued that point

Little 5 inch people,.,... ..aren't those fairies???

Chibi Boy would have...........well, he would if he actually knew the appropriate symbols to denote feet and inches.........

If I recall correctly H. neanderthalensis was shorter in stature to H. sapiens however larger in limb size and musculature and perhaps more intelligent than H. sapiens if we go by the size of the cranial cavity.

Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it,
I tell you no lies
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes,
Well all right now! - The almighty BLACK SABBATH

bigger cranium smaller brain

Originally posted by finti
bigger cranium smaller brain

Hey.....I know people like that....

yeah they are called politicians

http://sapphire.indstate.edu/~ramanank/morphology.html

actually cranium is about the same size..........just shaped differently. There's no evidence that they were any less intelligent than us.........yet the prevailing theory is that they were less intelligent as they did not form the same tools as we did at the time, theirs were less complex and affective. It's believed this is why they went extinct.........as modern man made their way to Europe......Neanderthals could not compete with them for food or in battle as their lower intelligence resulted in them making inferior tools and weapons, despite being physically superior from the neck down.

In a fist fight......Neanderthals win hand's down......Sapien's however were intelligent enough to know this and used arrow tipped spears.

+ they outnumbered the neanderthals.

meh........that's neither here nor there.

Both Sapiens and Neanderthals lived and hunted in groups......both groups were around the same size. Sapiens did not band together to help others of their species..........they would fight each other just as tribes anywhere did. It was probably always a fair fight when it came down to numbers.......

When the very first tribe of Sapiens wandered into Europe, Neanderthals outnumbered them.................the difference maker was that when they clashed, the Sapiens stayed alive to reproduce.