Animal Man vs Superman

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long pig
Always thought Buddy had an absolutely insane amount of potential. I mean, the sheer variety of powers... But in my opinion we've only seen a bit of this, and like some other characters (The Silver Surfer) even reading just about everything they've ever starred in won't help you much.

Before we begin this, lets take into consideration his powers are scaled to his size. He can use the sonic blasts of a Pistol Shrimp, but it'll be powerful enough to knock out a room of tough men. Ants can dart around quickly, moving so and so many lengths of their body in a second. For Buddy, that translates to about 70 miles an hour. And the ever famous rhinoceros beetle can hold 850 times it's own weight on it's back... Which translates to a normal human being holding and walking around with 76 family sized cars on his back. And, taking on the durability and damage resistance of a cockroach he's taken multiple attacks from an all out absolutely insane Superman.

Also, he can make copies of himself like bacteria.

Animal man= OWNAGE.

DarkCrawler
Damn, he could kick Superman's ass. He can fly, right?

long pig

masterbruce
seeing as how not a single animal on this planet could inflict the slightest damage to superman, animal man loses...REAL BAD

after a brief fight, Superman puts animal man on a leash and makes him into his female dog

Animal man sounds kinda corny but seems like an interesting character, unfortunately interesting characters don't translate to being a good fighter

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by masterbruce
seeing as how not a single animal on this planet could inflict the slightest damage to superman, animal man loses...REAL BAD

after a brief fight, Superman puts animal man on a leash and makes him into his female dog

Animal man sounds kinda corny but seems like an interesting character, unfortunately interesting characters don't translate to being a good fighter

Dude, his powers are porpotionate...if he copies fleas, he can jump miles. Ants, he can throw trucks with one finger...you get it...

DarkCrawler

newjak86
He should copy a frog for it's tongue

long pig
His only limit is he needs to conceptualize them for it to work.

For instance, he can have the strength of an elephant--or the proportionate strength of an ant. And either way he gets super-strength. So if he just copies, say, the strength-to-tenth-power-of-body-mass ratio of an ant, boom--he's as strong as Superman. Ditto for speed. He could copy the proportionate strike speed of a mantis shrimp and throw punches at hundreds of mph...or he could copy the proportionate strike acceleration and throw punches at tens of thousands of mph. It's all in the description of the attribute.

masterbruce
hmmm I still don't see anything he can absorb to really do anything to superman

and resistance of a cockroach?!! cockroaches are freaking patheticly weak...

animal man is a joke to superman....superman will refuse to fight him in order to keep his dignity

at best, animal becomes kinda like Rhino, strong and powerful but still no match for supes

long pig
Actually.....he already beat Superman in his own comic....but lets not talk about that. stick out tongue

A cockroach's durability x10 is on par with superman's durability.

At best, Animal man can become proportionately as strong as a rhino beetle x100 which would put him in the millions of ton range.

newjak86
He should copy the power of a electric eel imagine the electric output he would have.

masterbruce
a cockroach's durability is not that strong

any bug bigger than the cockroach can kill it

cockroach's survival ability is being confused for its durability

cockroaches are famed because they've survived so many millions of years, this is mostly due to their fast reproduction rates and the fact that they eat almost anything, and not because they are especially resistant to harm

long pig
A flea's penis is roughly 2/3rds the length of its body.

That would have to be useful......

or Rhizocephalans! (Shell-less barnacles which parasitize crabs) The power to change targets' sex at will!

Remember, he doesn't need to be in proximity of the animal to use it.

When he's consciously tuned into the "planetary morphic field," or the "template," or the "Red," or whatever plot is fueling his powers today, he simply reaches in and selects whatever animal he needs.

The guy is nearly God-like.

When he and Superman fought the first time, he used the cockroaches durability to take Superman's punches.

So......stick out tongue

masterbruce
how would a rhino beetle put him in the million ton range?

assume he lifts 500 pounds

multiply by 100, that's 50,000 lbs or 25 tons

multiply by 1000, thats 250 tons

multipy by 10000, thats 2500 tons

thats nowhere near a million tons

long pig
A rhino bettle lifts around 850 times it's own weight, so 850 x 10 tons x 100=.....I dunno but a lot.

long pig
-edit-
Math sucks.

grey fox
(auto quote)

No i think what he means is combining something like a elephants base Strength multiplied by the rhino beetles abilities THEN multiplied by an ants....or something along those lines

DarkCrawler
He can take any animal's power that has lived or or still lives in the Earth. Because of his connection.

Since Superman is a mammal, therefore an animal, and is connected to the Red, WHAT stops him from taking his powers, too? eek!

masterbruce
850 x 200 x 100 (what do these numbers mean?)

for the sake of the argument, that comes out to 8500 tons which is pretty impressive

but superman lifts over 100,000 tons so superman will certainly outmatch animal man in power

newjak86
What he means actually is even though the beetle's ability to lift 850 times is multiplied by his size. Meaning that 850 times becomes more because it it is times the fact his body 200 times bigger.

grey fox
Now that , would be cool eek! Happy Dance

long pig
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He can take any animal's power that has lived or or still lives in the Earth. Because of his connection.

Since Superman is a mammal, therefore an animal, and is connected to the Red, WHAT stops him from taking his powers, too? eek!
I think he can't because he's an alien.

masterbruce
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He can take any animal's power that has lived or or still lives in the Earth. Because of his connection.

Since Superman is a mammal, therefore an animal, and is connected to the Red, WHAT stops him from taking his powers, too? eek!

we're assuming he can't for this battle, or else it would be pointless

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by long pig
I think he can't because he's an alien.

But if he would go to another planet, he could take all the powers of those animals, too. And every living being is connected to Red, so...

grey fox
Originally posted by masterbruce
we're assuming he can't for this battle, or else it would be pointless


Very...very pointless

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by masterbruce
we're assuming he can't for this battle, or else it would be pointless

But Rogue can absorb her enemies powers in fights too...

masterbruce
what comic is animal man from, i've never heard of him

masterbruce
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But Rogue can absorb her enemies powers in fights too...

which is prob why you don't see rogue in many versus threads, or amazo

grey fox
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But if he would go to another planet, he could take all the powers of those animals, too. And every living being is connected to Red, so...


Hmmm well supes base is 100,000,000 tons correct well lets times that by 850 and it just abut equals one dead supes

long pig
D.C comics. Grant Morrison wrote him for a long time.

Dark, you just might be right actually.

Never read that he couldn't.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by masterbruce
what comic is animal man from, i've never heard of him

Vertigo. He has (or had, I don't know) his own series.

masterbruce
what was the greatest feat of strength performed by animal man?

and what were some feats of durability that he actually withstood?

grey fox
Cool so now we have a guy who could..maby , just maby take down thanos or even wolverien god of all fanboys (if darkcralwer is correct supes is a pussy compared to animal man)

masterbruce
I need concrete feats before I buy into this animal dude

grey fox
I have a crapload of info on animal man

Animal Man

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/a/animman.jpg

Real Name: Bernhard Baker

Identity/Class: Human mutate

Occupation: Professional superhero

formerly Movie stuntman

Affiliations: former member of The Forgotten Heroes (Cave Carson, Immortal Man, Dolphin, Dane Dorrance), the Justice League International, Justice League Europe,

ally of Vixen, Dolphin, Freedom Beast (formerly known as B'Wana Beast), Aquaman, Tristress, Swamp Thing, Hawkman, Hawkwoman, Shade the Changing Man, Black Orchid

friend of Roger Denning

Enemies: Mirror Master, Queen Bee, Mod Gorilla Boss, Vandal Savage, the Forgotten Villains, the Time Commander, Shining Man, Spider Queen, Gamesman, Millenium Creature, Mageddon, Bernie Madden

Known Relatives: Ellen Frazier Baker (wife), Cliff (son), Maxine (daughter, a.k.a. Little Wing), unnamed second daughter, unnamed sister, Frank Baker Jr. (father), Phyllis (mother), Frank Sr (grandfather, deceased), Teddy (great grandfather, deceased), Sherman (great-great grandfather, deceased), Jack (great-great-great grandfather, deceased), Mary Frazier (mother-in-law), Dudley (uncle-in-law, deceased)

Aliases: Buddy, The Man With Animal Powers

Base of Operations: Montana

previously San Diego, California

First Appearance: Strange Adventures I #180 (DC, September 1965)

Powers/Abilities: Animal Man is able to mimic the powers of any animal he can think. He does this by tapping into "The Red" (a.k.a. the "Lifeweb" or the "porphogenetic field"wink, a kind of energy which is in contact with every animal that has ever lived on Earth. Thus he can even access the powers of extinct species. Theoretically he could even mimic creatures that have visited Earth from other planets, though he hasn't tried this yet.

Among the more common abilities he has gained have been superhuman strength, speed, flight, ability to breathe underwater, wall-crawling, enhanced senses, and regeneration of lost limbs. He has created sonic booms by mimicing the pistol shrimp, changed skin tones by mimicing chameleons, generated electricity like an electric eel, and even duplicated himself like a bacteria. He doesn't normally take on physical attributes (such as wings or gills), but has done so on occasion, or when he wants to (such as when he grew himself some claws).

He can also communicate and empathise with animals, allowing him to control them to a degree. He can even move his mind into an animal's body, which has been handy in keeping him alive in at least one case, when his human form was slain. This transfer can go the other way, sometimes overwhelming his human side with animal instincts.

History: Buddy Baker was a rebellious teenager, a punk rocker, who went hunting one afternoon in the Adirondack Mountains, and came back transformed into one of the most powerful superhumans on the Earth. For a long time Buddy believed he had encountered a crashing alien spaceship, and gained his powers from the explosion when it landed. Later he learned it might have been a powerful spell that mutated him, and the aliens were merely an hallucination. Or perhaps that's false, and it's something else. Buddy no longer knows.

However it happened, Buddy discovered he now had the ability to mimic the special powers of nearby animals. His best friend, Roger Denning, convinced him to create a costume and become a superhero, Animal Man. He had some minor success, but eventually he decided to retire and make a normal life. He married his high-school sweetheart Ellen, and they moved to San Diego, where they made a living as a stuntman and an illustrator respectively, and had a couple of children, Cliff and Maxine.

He returned to adventuring after discovering a mysterious golden pyramid. Contacted by the Immortal Man, he joined a group of Forgotten Heroes, who had likewise found similar pyramids, in destroying these artifacts, which proved to be a threat to the world. The group stayed together for a little while, battling other foes, but eventually drifted apart after the death of the Immortal Man.

Nonetheless, this taste of the hero life left Buddy feeling the world could still use Animal Man. He continued adventuring, mostly solo, but sometimes as part of the Justice League International. Partly because his powers gave him an empathy with animals, his activities took on a more radical, environmentalist stance - he worked with hunt saboteurs in England, stopped the slaughter of dolphins in the Faroe Islands, and worked with both Vixen and the Freedom Beast on separate missions against oppresive African governments. Gradually he came to discover that his powers were far greater than he had previously realised, and learned he didn't need to be near an animal to access its powers.

However his radical stance had its price. When his animal rights group started a fire in a laboratory, a fireman died trying to extinguish the blaze. Buddy reconsidered his actions, if not his beliefs, and tried to quit being a superhero. Then a large corporation, unaware he had quit, decided to threaten his family's lives, to make him stop. It might have worked...if they hadn't carried through their threat. With his family dead, Buddy teamed up with his old foe, the Mirror Master, and took a bloody revenge. His grasp on reality shaken, he was then exposed to the madness of the Psycho-Pirate, the only person who remembered a reality-altering Crisis of recent times. The Pirate's memories of the worlds that had been destroyed were bringing everything back to life, threatening to overload all existence. In stopping this second Crisis, Buddy set in motion a chain of events which led to history being once more re-written, and his family restored to him.

Since then Buddy has spent a time trapped in an alternate world where America was run by a fascist government, faced the Shining Man and discovered his daughter is an "Animal Master" like him, with powers of her own. He's died and survived within the bodies of other animals until he could get a new body, attacked Washington D.C. while controlled by animal instincts, and started his own cult, the Church of Maxine. He recently rejoined the Forgotten Heroes, who had reformed now that the Immortal Man was alive again, to battle Vandal Savage and the Millennium Creature.

Comments: Why is this guy, an American creation, in the UK section? Because the definitive version of him was created by Scottish writer Grant Morrison, and it is his take on the character which has become the one most people

long pig
Well.....ANYONE who has both LIVED and DIED on Earth is up for power taking.

So if a kryptonian has lived and died on Earth, he's ripe for the picking.

I'm not sure if it goes as far as Gods, but there is no clear limit at all to his powers.

If he can conceptualize it, he can do it.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by masterbruce
what was the greatest feat of strength performed by animal man?

and what were some feats of durability that he actually withstood?

The point is, that Buddy Baker was a newbie. He did never use his powers to the fullest, but he was perhaps the most powerful being of DC Earth. He could take T-Rex's powers later in the series because he found out that he could use powers of all animals that had walked on the Earth. But, since he can use his powers to the fullest in these matches, he can do pretty incredible things.



Therefore, he could make unlimited amount of clones that are 800 times as strong as Superman and can regenerate and shoot sonic blasts. Superman is going down.

grey fox
And darkcrawler shoots, he scores

masterbruce
well I think they call him animal man for a reason

he can absorb powers only from animals, if he could absorb powers from any living being than he would be almost like amazo and way too powerful

he wouldn't even need to absorb animal powers, just absorb his enemies

for that reason, I dont think he could absorb superman or any other human powers

long pig
He could use pheromones like Queen Bees and basically mind control Superman.


masterbruce.....humans ARE animals.

masterbruce
wouldnt pheromones of queen bees allow him to mind control other worker bees only?

it wouldnt give him telepathy

long pig
Well, just pheromone control in general.
Combine that with elephant infra-sound and toads' hallucinogenic secretions and you've basically got close-range mind-control. Screwing with enemies' emotions and perceptions...

masterbruce
Originally posted by long pig
He could use pheromones like Queen Bees and basically mind control Superman.


masterbruce.....humans ARE animals.

I realize that humans are animals, but I'm assuming that his creator meant that he could only absorb the powers of non humanoid animals

or else he would be the most powerful DC character almost and I def dont think the writers intended for that

long pig
Or....maybe he just wasn't very popular.

masterbruce
"elephant infra-sound"

what the hell is that? some of these animal powers sound kinda bogus

grey fox
He was created in the sixties that' why they called him 'animal man' they ussualy came up with crappy names back then

long pig
Read about it here http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/EleInfrasound.html

DarkCrawler
Damn...Animal Man would be a beast in Marvel...since mutants are natural species...he could have the power of EVERY mutant ever existed...shit.

grey fox
DAAAAAAAAAAMN

long pig
Yeah, I was just thinking that.

He could just reach in and grab phoenix.

I doubt he could wrap his mind around that type of power, but he could do a whole lot.

DarkCrawler
*Thanos lands on planet*

"You may have every power of every mutant...but you don't have the power of THANOS."

"Actually, I have. You set your foot on the planet."

"Holy shit."

grey fox
Dont say the 'p' word otherwise we wll have galactic storm over here

long pig
Originally posted by grey fox
Dont say the 'p' word otherwise we wll have galactic storm over here
laughing
Nooooo....

olympian
"or else he would be the most powerful DC character almost and I def dont think the writers intended for that"

Morrison did went that way. Thats already out three trades of his entire run, not only its one of the best reads ever, it shows what he can do. And hes just not popular, Morrison and the writters that came next made him quite big.

Hes more a cult character inside DC than a popular one like lets say Batman and Wonder Woman.

DarkCrawler
Seriously...he is like the most powerful character on planet.

Draco69
He has the POTENTIAL to be powerful. However he's hasn't done even HALF the things on the list mentioned before. Actually it's just a list of ideas he COULD do. Not what he HAS done. It's no consensus for what he HAS or CAN do.

We can do the same with Magneto, Silver Surfer, or Martian Manhunter. These characters are capable of doing insane stuff....but they haven't. The writers unfortunately aren't scientists. So Animal Man will almost always be underwritten. It's more CIS than PIS.

Fanboy
I just read about Animal man none of his stats impress me at all Superman wins.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Fanboy
I just read about Animal man none of his stats impress me at all Superman wins.

You obviously didn't read rest of the thread... roll eyes (sarcastic)

long pig
Well, to be fair DarkCrawler, we made most of those up ourselves. lol.

But yeah.......
He has already beaten Superman, so............

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by long pig
Well, to be fair DarkCrawler, we made most of those up ourselves. lol.



But it is true. Red = Connected to every living being that has been on contact with Earth = Animal Man can have powers of every living being of Earth.

long pig
You're right but I thought I'd throw that in there to make sure people know what we're talking about.

I kinda would like to see Animal Man make a return, but sans the four wall breaking and weird reality control.

grey fox
Well we can all hope cant we

ImmortalOne
He is ALL THAT, but.......... THE NAME IS REALLY100x UGLY !!

Suggestions:
-Red
-Abzorz
-Replitor
-Red Beast

long pig
This SEEMED like a cool fight back then. Were we wrong?

Digi
Originally posted by long pig
This SEEMED like a cool fight back then. Were we wrong?

Well, yes. You'd have to give AM the credit for doing dozens of things in perfect sequence within the fight in response to Supes to have a chance. Otherwise, a full-power attack at full speed from the Man would be the end here.

I assume you didn't include 4th wall style powers, yes? That would've changed things a bit.

Still, I remember this fight. It got people seriously thinking about the character, which was cool. I don't think half the stuff you and DC threw out was justified with feats of any kind, which makes it iffy, but he'd be a tough out when written well.

long pig
Are you kidding, none of it was. laughing out loud Well, the strength thing was. He took the mass of a blue whale and added the ability to lift hundreds of times his own weight. He said "With this combo I'm the strongest being on earth". But yeah, this was pre tourney hype I believe. I'm the one who got the forum to take Strange seriously, too. I got to the amalgalm finals with one character.

Q99
Originally posted by long pig
Yeah, I was just thinking that.

He could just reach in and grab phoenix.

I doubt he could wrap his mind around that type of power, but he could do a whole lot.

Nope, Phoenix is an outside entity.

And he gains the abilities of animal *species*, not specific animals.

In other words, I'm pretty sure copying Mutants would get him the powers ever Mutant has in common. Think about that for a moment.


He can copy humans I'm pretty sure, it's just that's his default powerset so it doesn't matter, i.e. he is a human. He cannot copy specific Metahumans.



Remember, debate the character, not a vaguely-similar-projection-to-what-the-character's-powers-SOUND-like.

ares834
Nice job debating with somoeone's post 6 years back. wink

Q99
Huh, didn't even notice that since long pig is still around.

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