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I don't think this has been done, didn't find it on the search engine anyway. So I think this could be an even match. Some people might just say that Kreia was better than Malak and The Exile beated her so it's already settled. But just because a can beat b doesent mean he can beat c. For example Malak is a better lightsaber combatant than Kreia. I am leaning slightly to the Exile though.

I am not...

If the Exile beat Kreia it was because he is better with a lightsaber and although he is good and the disciple describes his movements as a song he was not ever described as Malak was by others. Never once in his entire life, the Exile was not as good with a lightsaber as Malak was nor with the force during his time with Revan.

After that I think he only got weaker then yes he regained his connection to the force but he got it threw other people, I don't know if he really became more powerful perhaps smarter but his lightsaber skills haven't improved that much. If you can trust the game he hasn't mastered any style just touched the basics of them all. Malak is going to be far more advanced with the style he has used and he does have more experience then the Exile does because he also fought in the Jedi Civil War.

I doubt that the Exile has a greater control over the force and even if he does its not going to be that much greater so it won't be enough to defeat Malak with anyways.

Yes absolutly true. During the Mandalorian wars I don't have a clue what kind of style the Exile used but during the game he uses many. The masters tell him that he is a quick learner, mabey because he had used those forms before? Mabey because....because he is a quick learner. Anyway Malak beats the Exile in lightsaber combat but I doubt in force powers, the Exile has stolen power from all that he has killed and he has become alot stronger than he was before. But mabey Malaks stronger, I don't know but I doubt it.

Force powers alone won't make him win this fight.

No of course not but he's not defenceless with a lightsaber, he is good enough to beat 3 floating lightsabers, and he need to hit the handle of them to destroy them which is harder than to hit a person behind them. But that's no proof he can beat Malak, that's just proof that he can fight with a saber if he wants too, and he can fight good.

I'm not saying he is a bad fighter I just don't think he is as good a fighter as Malak is. And I don't think he is superior in the force by a lot if at all.

i think fishy is right

Yes and I don't think Malak is superior with lightsaber by alot either, The Exile did beat the jedi masters (Dark side) in duels using mostly his lightsaber so I bet he could at least hold Malak off and use force powers. But hey it's starting to sound like I'm on the Exiles side which I'm not, I'm on neither, I just want people to discuss this fight. I'm just saying I don't think beating him in a lightsaber duel would be easy, even for Malak.

It won't be easy, but Malak defeated those Masters too, or he could have beaten them all if he needed too. Also you have to remember that when the Exile destroyed them he was borrowing powers from other people, he did not use his own powers so that doesn't make him as powerful as when he would have done it alone. The real question is however if the Exile kept the powers he borrowed when he regained his connection with the force, and if not then when did this fight take place?

Yeah your right, in this battle I'm thinking of the Exile using his borrowed powers, like you play him in the game. Without them though he wouldent be much more than average.

The exile doesn't canonically use many lightsaber styles; he is merely allowed to use them just as he is allowed to use any and all force powers due to game mechanics and marketting.

You really can't use the Exile in threads because there is no canonically correct version of him.

As of yet, exactly. You can only say for certain that the Exile caused the death of Kreia, Sion, and Nihilus.

Kreia is his only canon kill.

True...

How is Kreia his only canon kill?

Because Sion basically let himself die and Nihilus was triple teamed.

The Exile had already defeated Sion several times. Nihilus was triple teamed, but Visas ins't very good. Canderous did a lot against Nihilus, but Nihilus is no pushover. Even with help, it's still an impressive kill.

And couldn't win.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Exile had already defeated Sion several times. Nihilus was triple teamed, but Visas ins't very good. Canderous did a lot against Nihilus, but Nihilus is no pushover. Even with help, it's still an impressive kill.

Define defeat in this instance, since the Exile was urged to flee their first encounter, and since Sion was never defeated BY WEAPON in the final battle, we can assume the Exile defeated only his will, correct?

Also, you're making the assumption that Visas is weak. That's not verifiable. What we can infer though, is that Visas may have either been very ineffective against Nihilus because of her bond and because she was afraid of him, or she fought tooth and nail and saved the Exile. She may have given her life in the canonical version, as can happen in game. And to assume that Canderous did anything (When Nihilus Force froze the guy easily) is unfounded at this point.

Fine, if Canderous did nothing, then that just adds to the Exile's power.

And, you can't completly drop the Exile because there isn't a lot of canon stuff on him. We do know that even if it didn't happen canonly that he is capable of defeating Vrook, Kavar, and Ezki-Vos(Whatever that guy us called). We know that he is capable of defeating Sion. That he is capable of defeating the Trayus Academy. That he can defeat the Mandalorian Champion of the Duel Circle without the force. That he was a general in Revan's army.

The Exile is freakin good.

I agree with Glentrac, the Exile was really good but that was much because of his stolen power from the people he killed. But in that battle circle without the force he showed that he could survive and battle better than any of the surviving Mandalorians in combat.

So? A Mandelorian could never defeat Malak.

I don't think thats true. The Mandalore that Ulic fought gave him a hard time and Ulic is better than Malak. Mandalore could probably kill Malak. If Malak wasn't using the force, he would really be screwed against Mandalore.

Malak would use the force... And Ulic is better then Malak, well that can be debated..

Anyways to go back on subject the Mandelorians the Exile faced were nothing near that Mandalore anyways... And every good force user especially one thats using the Dark Side should be able to kill Mandalore.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Fine, if Canderous did nothing, then that just adds to the Exile's power.

And, you can't completly drop the Exile because there isn't a lot of canon stuff on him. We do know that even if it didn't happen canonly that he is capable of defeating Vrook, Kavar, and Ezki-Vos(Whatever that guy us called). We know that he is capable of defeating Sion. That he is capable of defeating the Trayus Academy. That he can defeat the Mandalorian Champion of the Duel Circle without the force. That he was a general in Revan's army.

The Exile is freakin good.

First point, you cannot know at this point whether or not the Exile even did anything worthwhile in the battle.

Second point, canonically, Yoda was able to defeat Sidious. It did not happen. That's speculation, and a shaky one at best. Actually, those aren't even good parallels because a dark side Exile would be stronger and more aggressive, able to defeat jedi masters. But since we don't know if that happened, and how it happened, we can only assume that the Exile may or may not have been able to defeat those jedi masters in straight combat, not we know it is canonically possible.

Third point, we know the Exile can defeat Sion's will. We don't know how his skill matches up to Sion's.

Fourth point, canonically speaking, there could have been five Sith in the academy who opposed him. He could have snuck past everyone. The only FMV featuring Trayus academy Sith shows them bowing in line nad letting him pass... The experience inside is predominately for gameplay's sake... Otherwise, we could just say that the Exile killed a hundred or so dark jedi and thus he must be better than those who did not. Non Sequitor.

Fifth point, not canon. Again, it falls on canonical speculation and itsn't verified. For all we know, the Exile was a weak Consular whose expertise was Force powers, not combat. Thus, he could never beat Bralor.

Sixth point, a general is noted for leading ability, not fighting ability.

You can't prove that he didn't do those things. It does show that the Exile is capable of doing that. Weather or not he actually did that is different. It doesn;t matter what class. I have beaten the entire game with all sidequest with every class.

The only thing that really matters now is this Dark or Light Side Exile, and no matter which one it is, Malak will defeat him.

Again, YOUR GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE AND ITS POSSIBILITIES ARE NOT CANON!

If that were the case, Luke in ROTJ the game could have killed an infinite number of stormtroopers! Jaden would have had the "capability" to slaughter hundreds of dark jedi and stormtroopers.

Correct, ONLY FMVs and universal facts (i.e. results) actually count for canon as far as a game goes. Everything else is not confirmed.

And Jaden DID slaughter hundreds of Dark Jedi, each Dark Jedi prevented access to the next room until he was dead . So canonically, you could not advance unless he was dead. Not to mention the cutscenes where there were bodies strewn.

IMO, the Exile. He beat Traya, nuf said.

He beat Traya... But did Traya really try and kill him? If she could off Sith assassins, jedi masters, and dominate Sion like it was nothing, why would she lose to the Exile? Maybe... because she wanted to?

Or mabey because she used that draning power on them but was unable to kill the Exile with it. We don't know how she killed those sith assassins and we don't know if her power woud work on people more powerful than those jedi masters. I agree that he beated Traya is no reason that he can beat Malak but I doubt that Kreia wanted to loose. When you defeated her in fair combat she said, now kill me. When I played on my dark side character I said "I will" but then she resisted and started fighting with 3 lightsabers. She could be wanting to test the Exiles abilities but I doubt that she wanted to loose but that's just me.

My point is Kreia trained the Exile. She loved him even. Why would she try her damndest to kill him in that final battle?

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
My point is Kreia trained the Exile. She loved him even. Why would she try her damndest to kill him in that final battle?

Oh I agree that she might not have been trying. However, nothing in the game really says she wasn't trying, so as of now, the Exile defeated Traya completely fairly.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Oh I agree that she might not have been trying. However, nothing in the game really says she wasn't trying, so as of now, the Exile defeated Traya completely fairly.

Are you so sure about that?

Kreia easily took him down just a day or so earlier, she also easily destroyed three Jedi Masters before that, you would think she'd be able to knock somebody like him out again or at least hurt him really badly with just one attack, yet she didn't. Her true power lies in the force and for some reason she still fights with a lightsaber, then once you defeat her she talks to you. And suddenly she continues fighting this time she does use the force. She didn't do that before, why wouldn't she use her most powerful ally at the beginning of the fight if she wanted to win?

Throughout the entire game she talks about how you (the Exile) needs to come full circile, how you need to confront your history and your future she is a big part of it at that time, she does not want you to have any ties when you go to confront or help Revan. She is definitly something that stands in the way.

She also wanted the force destroyed, but you failed in that, or Nihilus whomever it is the force was still in one piece after Nihilus died, she was probably really dissapointed and without a possibility of destroying the force she would have had no reason to live. Why not sacrifise herself to help somebody she loves, as her last act she did something for somebody else. I think there is plenty of evidence around except for anybody actually saying it.

I agree.

Am I the only one who finds it convenient that the Exile never brings up Kreia to the jedi masters by name?

No you're not, I think it was supposed to be that way. The masters would have recognized her, and I'm sure they would have known she went to the dark side earlier in her life. And in the cut scene after you leave the jeedai academy on Telos, one of the handmaidens informs Atris of "an old woman", whom she knew nothing about earlier. No I think it was done on purpose so you wouldn't find out the true identity of Kreia until later.

As for Malak vs the Exile, It is a very tough battle, but I think Malak takes it. As said before, the Exile only defeated Nihilus because his eating powers didn't work on the Exile. He defeated Sion's will, and there's a very good argument that Kreia let the Exile kill her. I mean let's face it, Kreia knew of the True Sith, knew they were much more powerful than she or any other Force User in the galaxy at the time. She also knew that the Exile was one of the only people who could help Revan. I think, not only was her defeat from him, but actually her actions through out the whole game, were just a huge test to ready the Exile for combat against the True Sith. In fact looking back on it now, I'd say that's quite obvious. So in a straight up battle, we have no idea how the Exile would fare against Kreia. And until we know what the canon ending for KOTOR II is, we won't know if the Exile was dark or light, and we won't know if he defeated the jeedai masters or not. No I'd say Malak takes it.

Much agreed on that one.

Me too, I really would like to have a cannon version off it, like the script to KOTOR 2. Mabey we can beg the producers off KOTOR 2 to tell us the cannon version, doubt that though. But I still don't know who would win in this fight. I'm not convinced yet.

Originally posted by Achilles X
As for Malak vs the Exile, It is a very tough battle, but I think Malak takes it. As said before, the Exile only defeated Nihilus because his eating powers didn't work on the Exile. He defeated Sion's will, and there's a very good argument that Kreia let the Exile kill her. I mean let's face it, Kreia knew of the True Sith, knew they were much more powerful than she or any other Force User in the galaxy at the time. She also knew that the Exile was one of the only people who could help Revan. I think, not only was her defeat from him, but actually her actions through out the whole game, were just a huge test to ready the Exile for combat against the True Sith. In fact looking back on it now, I'd say that's quite obvious. So in a straight up battle, we have no idea how the Exile would fare against Kreia. And until we know what the canon ending for KOTOR II is, we won't know if the Exile was dark or light, and we won't know if he defeated the jeedai masters or not. No I'd say Malak takes it.

like janus said very much agreed

Originally posted by Fishy
Are you so sure about that?

Kreia easily took him down just a day or so earlier, she also easily destroyed three Jedi Masters before that, you would think she'd be able to knock somebody like him out again or at least hurt him really badly with just one attack, yet she didn't. Her true power lies in the force and for some reason she still fights with a lightsaber, then once you defeat her she talks to you. And suddenly she continues fighting this time she does use the force. She didn't do that before, why wouldn't she use her most powerful ally at the beginning of the fight if she wanted to win?

Throughout the entire game she talks about how you (the Exile) needs to come full circile, how you need to confront your history and your future she is a big part of it at that time, she does not want you to have any ties when you go to confront or help Revan. She is definitly something that stands in the way.

She also wanted the force destroyed, but you failed in that, or Nihilus whomever it is the force was still in one piece after Nihilus died, she was probably really dissapointed and without a possibility of destroying the force she would have had no reason to live. Why not sacrifise herself to help somebody she loves, as her last act she did something for somebody else. I think there is plenty of evidence around except for anybody actually saying it.

Yes but remember how much stronger the Exile got. Malak could paralyze Revan on the Leviathan, had him at his mercy, yet a week later, Revan comes back stronger than his previous reign no less and beats Malak not once, but twice in a row.

The Exile gained another Force power right after he got up, stormed the entire ship Ravager, beat Nihilus (and possibly gains a little of his force connection back.) Then he goes to Malachor V, fights many, many monsters, and single handedly wipes out all of TRAYUS ACADEMY. These guys were good, and perhaps even made the Korriban academy look weak. Right after fighting them all, he beats Sion 4 or 5 times in a row, and then goes on to fight Traya. Even if she was holding back, He still did really well, especially after all he had just fought. IMO, the Exile would beat Malak, but it wouldn't be a walk in the park.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Yes but remember how much stronger the Exile got. Malak could paralyze Revan on the Leviathan, had him at his mercy, yet a week later, Revan comes back stronger than his previous reign no less and beats Malak not once, but twice in a row.

The Exile gained another Force power right after he got up, stormed the entire ship Ravager, beat Nihilus (and possibly gains a little of his force connection back.) Then he goes to Malachor V, fights many, many monsters, and single handedly wipes out all of TRAYUS ACADEMY. These guys were good, and perhaps even made the Korriban academy look weak. Right after fighting them all, he beats Sion 4 or 5 times in a row, and then goes on to fight Traya. Even if she was holding back, He still did really well, especially after all he had just fought. IMO, the Exile would beat Malak, but it wouldn't be a walk in the park.

1- There was no specific time frame, nor is there a real indicator of Revan getting stronger in any amount of time between the capture of Bastila and the final confrontation, although a few days to a week is fair, I suppose. Anyways, entertain the possibility that Malak froze Revan through the element of shock and surprise. Mind you, this is some Sith lord badass confronting Revan (who doesn't know he's Revan) and his entire crew as they are trying to escape. Fighting and such was the last thing on his mind.

2- The change between the Exile on Dantooine and the Exile later on on Malachor V is that the Exile on Malachor was WHOLE. He had his Force attunement back, meaning if anything, Kreia's "wounding Force" attack, that left the jedi masters dead and left their bodies bereft of the Force itself would **** him right up!

3- You don't know he fought a soul in Trayus Academy besides Sion and Kreia, so don't presume to think he fought the whole damn place. Why? Well, you have no canon FMV, statement from a narrator, or otherwise to even think he fought anyone. It's game mechanics and gameplay neccessity that there was anyone inside.

4- Assuming that the Sith on Malachor V (Who can't even be proven to canonically exist in that time and place, nor can they be numbered) are better than the ones on Korribam (A training academy of much lower calibre) is really a poor statement. One, different game mechanics make the ones in KOTOR (Which could be encountered in any order, and were matched by Revan's level in a game with a level 20 cap) weaker, and two, it's a training academy on level with... hell... Like comparing West Point to Dug's Weekend School for Fighting Guys.

5- The Exile doesn't "beat Sion four or five times in a row". He fights him and works verbally on his willpower, finally causing Sion to give up. Four or five is actually pretty bad. I can do it in two myself.

6- You have no idea how canonically the Exile won the fight, period. You cannot say he did pretty well at all. You have nothing to base it on but game play experience.

DarthJanus has you their.

Janus, with that logic the entire games are useless and only the chronicles from the KOTOR 2 website shows anything.

1. Malak says he's even stronger than his last reign, on the Leviathan, he is condescending to Revan and saying he's only a shell of what he was. Game mechanics say he got stronger, c'mon, he was fighting hundreds of different enemies, so naturally he would get stronger. It's like Kreia says, when one is in combat, one gets stronger, when one is not in combat, one gets weaker. Or something along those lines. We KNOW he got stronger than he was on the Leviathan, and if you're using that logic, you could again say we don't know Ragnos defeated anyone but Simus so he hasn't. (Not trying to start that mess again, but you've gotta be fair.

2. All the Force attunement back is total speculation. Nihilus doesn't have to try and drain the Exile, nor does he have to take the mask or anything like that, it's not a fact.

3. There's no way you can get through Trayus Academy to Sion without fighting anyone. No, he didn't necessarily beat everyone, but he still has to defeat probably a third of them.

4. Why is it a poor statement? Malachor V has WAY more knowledge, sith artifacts, and more than Korriban. It channels the dark side better, and has stronger leaders. All facts point that Trayus Academy most likely has stronger students than Korriban.

5. I've never done it less than four, so if two's the least then he still beats him twice in a row fighting.

6. We know he fought them and won, it's that simple. Why are you talking like this? You don't question how Dooku beat Obi, or anything from the movies, nor do you question Ragnos' power when we have nothing to go on cannonically except he defeated Simus (who we have no idea how powerful he was) and he ruled for a century, manipulating his enemies into fighting each other. That's it. We don't even know he was stronger than Sadow. So don't use this kind of logic in one argument, but not all of them.

this is off topic but if sion would have been decapitated he wouldn't have been able to stay alive right?

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
3. There's no way you can get through Trayus Academy to Sion without fighting anyone. No, he didn't necessarily beat everyone, but he still has to defeat probably a third of them.

Haha...did you ever try to use one of the Stealth Units you can find in the game. You can simply use it and walk through the academy without having a single soul attacking you (just checked it before posting).



More artifacts and knowledge than Korriban where all ancient Sith Lords are burried ? Better connection to the dark side than the homeworld of the Sith Empire filled with the tombs of serveral hundrets Dark Lords including holocrons, artifacts and stuff like that ? I don't think so...

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Janus, with that logic the entire games are useless and only the chronicles from the KOTOR 2 website shows anything.

1. Malak says he's even stronger than his last reign, on the Leviathan, he is condescending to Revan and saying he's only a shell of what he was. Game mechanics say he got stronger, c'mon, he was fighting hundreds of different enemies, so naturally he would get stronger. It's like Kreia says, when one is in combat, one gets stronger, when one is not in combat, one gets weaker. Or something along those lines. We KNOW he got stronger than he was on the Leviathan, and if you're using that logic, you could again say we don't know Ragnos defeated anyone but Simus so he hasn't. (Not trying to start that mess again, but you've gotta be fair.

2. All the Force attunement back is total speculation. Nihilus doesn't have to try and drain the Exile, nor does he have to take the mask or anything like that, it's not a fact.

3. There's no way you can get through Trayus Academy to Sion without fighting anyone. No, he didn't necessarily beat everyone, but he still has to defeat probably a third of them.

4. Why is it a poor statement? Malachor V has WAY more knowledge, sith artifacts, and more than Korriban. It channels the dark side better, and has stronger leaders. All facts point that Trayus Academy most likely has stronger students than Korriban.

5. I've never done it less than four, so if two's the least then he still beats him twice in a row fighting.

6. We know he fought them and won, it's that simple. Why are you talking like this? You don't question how Dooku beat Obi, or anything from the movies, nor do you question Ragnos' power when we have nothing to go on cannonically except he defeated Simus (who we have no idea how powerful he was) and he ruled for a century, manipulating his enemies into fighting each other. That's it. We don't even know he was stronger than Sadow. So don't use this kind of logic in one argument, but not all of them.

1- The point here is this: Unlike Marka Ragnos (in which case there were almost certainly competition... whether or not said competition was fought is another question) there is only "hundreds" as you put it, enemies because it's a GAME! In a video game, things are meant to be challenging. I mean, come on... on Taris you fight more individuals than there were stormtroopers in the entire OT. Think rationally, and you'll get what I'm saying... Now in regards to Revan getting stronger... speculation, founded on two statements from dubious sources- Kreia and Malak. In the case of Malak, you have taken the words of Revan's archenemy and claimed them as irrefutable fact. Also, with Kreia's general statement, you have taken it literally to mean that one grows stronger through conflict (even if that is a fair statement) but since there is no specifications as to how much conflict leads to how much change, you have made the assumption that Revan grew that much stronger fighting peons afterwards to what? Overcome Malak? Ridiculous... You cannot replace "it is" with "i wish", and you cannot rewrite facts.

2- Speculation it is, inferred from all the information and hints in the game. The only other solution is that the Exile is "not" whole and remains a wound to this day. None of that may neccessarily happen (Although to my knowledge Nihilus drains you -neccessarily as a plot element-)

3- Read Nai's statement. You can stealth through the whole place.

4- Read my statement. Korriban was not made to be more difficult, and since we've already established that the Sith within can't be directly compared with the Sith on Malachor V, what difference does this point make if one can simply stealth past them all?

5- At what point does it cease to be the same fight?

6- Ragnos is -the- most powerful Sith of the height of the Sith empire. He defeated Simus, the most powerful Sith lord before him. Sadow and Kressh were afraid of him. Now, in regards to movie characters, we can make better inferences because all of our material is clearly laid out and mostly visible. Not so with game characters who reflect a player's choices and likes or dislikes.

Lack of proof is not proof of lacking. The Exile, even if he did not technically do all those things in the game, could do them. You can't say that it is impossible for the Exile to kill three Jedi Masters, two Sith Lords, and two Sith Ladies(?)? He did lead the assault on Onderon, that is a fact. He was THE deciding factor in the Battle for Koonda. He was one of the generals in Revan's Army.

You can't say Revan did anything acoording to the crappy idea you and some other members have been going by recently. I could have lost against Dead Eye Duncan in KOTOR and that means that Revan had done nothing except kill about ten Sith troopers.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Lack of proof is not proof of lacking. The Exile, even if he did not technically do all those things in the game, could do them. You can't say that it is impossible for the Exile to kill three Jedi Masters, two Sith Lords, and two Sith Ladies(?)? He did lead the assault on Onderon, that is a fact. He was THE deciding factor in the Battle for Koonda. He was one of the generals in Revan's Army.

You can't say Revan did anything acoording to the crappy idea you and some other members have been going by recently. I could have lost against Dead Eye Duncan in KOTOR and that means that Revan had done nothing except kill about ten Sith troopers.

Damn, Glentract... if you're gonna quote me, do it right.

"absence of proof is not proof of absence."

And the point behind that means just that. But the difference between the Exile and Marka Ragnos is that his fate, his position, and its longevity as well as how he attained the position as THE Sith lord of Sith lords for over a century is sealed. Final. We have some canonical data to infer from.

With the Exile, we can either say it MAY HAVE happened, or it MAY NOT HAVE, in most cases.

Let me demonstrate...

Technically, you can do things totally out of character in KOTOR II, such as murder all the Jedi masters and still maintain a relatively good alignment.

Technically, you can beat everyone and everything with your bare hands.

Technically, you can defeat Nihilus without any help from Visas or Canderous.

But what you need is -more than- this petty "technically" shit. You need something a bit more grounded, considering you are dealing with someone who doesn't even have n established fate or even personality.

It MAY HAVE or MAY NOT HAVE been possible for the Exile to kill three Jedi masters. It's also possible for anyone in the KOTOR series (Specifically, Malak, Revan, Kreia, Juhani, Visas) to do such. The means with which it was done (whether through skill, trickery, surprise, or whatever) is completely uncertain. Therefore, you can infer no real accomplishment from this. It is like saying Patton took Hill 18, but not saying how or if even the enemy was defeated from another army group, from within, or just retreated. You have the end result in the case of potential victories here (in the case of Jedi masters, I mean) and nothing beforehand to indicate if the Exile was even on the same level. Rationally, to think that the Exile went to war as a padawan and came back only to become stronger than jedi masters (aside from the possibility that he used his dirty unique talent) is ridiculous.

Now, in regards to Sion, we KNOW that Sion's will was defeated. Why? This is a fact. It is the only way it could have gone. The exile has not defeated Sion in combat by depleting his life bar any more than Brianna the Handmaiden "defeated" Atris by depleting -her- lifebar in combat. (ONly to have Atris go full health when the Exile walks in, seconds later.)

He lead the assault on Onderon. What? Grabbing at straws now? This tells us his capability how? Is there a war going on here in this thread and I've forgotten it? Moot point. Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Malak himself have lead assaults in far more dangerous places.

Again, GENERAL in Revan's army. Tarkin was a general of sorts in Sidious' army. Was he neccessarily the best warrior in the army or the best thinker?

No, on the contrary, YOU can't prove that he DID beat Deadeye Duncan. But since you think I am out to discredit Revan, here... I'll give you this: Revan beat Malak... somehow. Most likely a one-on-one duel, but it could have been a lucky shot. We do not yet know. I do know from a quote by the ONderon cantina owner that some newcomer reached the third tier in the same day (roughyl, the time period isn't specifically mentioned, but it is implicitly brief) in the Manaan swoop race meet. I can infer from that much that it was someone with amazing skills, most likely a jedi. And the only jedi I know of who would have raced on Manaan would have been Revan. So Revan is a swoop race champ, most likely. There.

Please, don't go about grabbing at "But he did this... He did that". Try and do something a bit more involved.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Damn, Glentract... if you're gonna quote me, do it right.

"absence of proof is not proof of absence."

I actually didn't know I was quoting you.

Hmm Janus, we do know some more about the fight between Revan and Malak then you claim there.

First of all we know Revan defeated Malak twice in a row. We know that Malak admitted defeat at the end. Either by saying that the light side is tronger or by saying Revan was always the master, now whatever he says it implies that he lost in a fair fight.

Besides that you are pretty much right however.

This is why somone needs to write books for the KOTOR series it would help clear up this whole mess.

I think they should make a movie on it.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I think they should make a movie on it.

Yeah...SW Episode -III, -II and -I and than we have a look at a video of Jake Lloyds birth spammed with CGI stuff called "Episode 0 - Attack of the clone actors".

Lol, btw Emperor Revan...

Malak might have been able to freeze Revan on the leviathan, he also ran away from Revan just moments later. Meaning he was not more powerful then Revan or at least not by a lot. Carth might think so, but if Malak would trully have been able to kill you there and then he would have.

I didn't mean Malak was way stronger, but he did paralyze him, and Bastila basically saved his life (though Revan did break free really quick). Malak didn't run away, in fact, it was more of Revan running away than anything. I suppose he might have caught him off guard though.

Janus: Revan DOES get stronger from the Leviathan to the Star Forge. The mere fact that he's stronger in game dynamics should be enough to show that he gets stronger. You don't say that Kyle is as strong at the start of Jedi Knight or Outcast than he is by the end of the game. Next, Revan fought (99.9% of players) hundreds of Sith apprentices, some Mandalorians, Rancors, assassin droids, and more.

Take AOTC Obi for example. 10 years after TPM, and he's not that much stronger. Put him and Anakin in a time of war for three years and they come back much stronger.

Malak's statement is most likely true, he is surprised that Revan just survived and says he is stronger than his previous reign. He also thinks he can whoop up on Revan so why would he be lying? Why would Kreia be lying? You don't question her when she says Tulak was the greatest swordsman, or that Marka had tremendous strength both physically and in the Force.

Nai Fohl: Yeah but, the stealth... damn you!

Wasn't Malak fighting Bastila after that?

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I didn't mean Malak was way stronger, but he did paralyze him, and Bastila basically saved his life (though Revan did break free really quick). Malak didn't run away, in fact, it was more of Revan running away than anything. I suppose he might have caught him off guard though.

Janus: Revan DOES get stronger from the Leviathan to the Star Forge. The mere fact that he's stronger in game dynamics should be enough to show that he gets stronger. You don't say that Kyle is as strong at the start of Jedi Knight or Outcast than he is by the end of the game. Next, Revan fought (99.9% of players) hundreds of Sith apprentices, some Mandalorians, Rancors, assassin droids, and more.

Take AOTC Obi for example. 10 years after TPM, and he's not that much stronger. Put him and Anakin in a time of war for three years and they come back much stronger.

Malak's statement is most likely true, he is surprised that Revan just survived and says he is stronger than his previous reign. He also thinks he can whoop up on Revan so why would he be lying? Why would Kreia be lying? You don't question her when she says Tulak was the greatest swordsman, or that Marka had tremendous strength both physically and in the Force.

Nai Fohl: Yeah but, the stealth... damn you!

I'm of the mind to think Revan's power may have come back gradually, but only because he was slowly regaining his memories. Outside of gameplay, there is nothing besides Malak's statement to show otherwise. Just a point there, tis all.

Also, you can't prove to me that he did or didn't fight at most 99.999 % to 10% of the nonstoryline neccessary enemies. Again, look at any of the books, or at the movies... Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity.

True, conflict does make a huge difference, I think that's a good point. But specifically we have no idea of how much it affected Revan or even if he did (Or rather, she did) fight any enemies after Malak. And in keeping in character, Revan was a tactician; it is just as likely that Revan's party outwitted and outsmarted foes as opposed to straight out killing them in a level playing field. Just a thought.

And indeed, why would Kreia be lying? She probably isn't, just as she isn't lying about Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. But we have to entertain both possibilities behind her words - that they are or aren't right- until we have something better to go on.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
...Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity....

NJO Luke does

I have always had the thought that outsmarting your foes is better than brute force hense one of the reasons I like Revan. But back on topic...it really is hard to compair Malak and the Exile seeing as we know so little about the Exile.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
NJO Luke does

DEATH TO NJO LUKE!

Death To Revan89!!!!

Huh?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
NJO Luke does

Ass! lmao... Besides the point! NJO Luke invented the galaxy, for cryin' out loud.

I hope you gave your tithing to Luke recently or else he will use his god-powers to smite you!

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'm of the mind to think Revan's power may have come back gradually, but only because he was slowly regaining his memories. Outside of gameplay, there is nothing besides Malak's statement to show otherwise. Just a point there, tis all.

Also, you can't prove to me that he did or didn't fight at most 99.999 % to 10% of the nonstoryline neccessary enemies. Again, look at any of the books, or at the movies... Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity.

True, conflict does make a huge difference, I think that's a good point. But specifically we have no idea of how much it affected Revan or even if he did (Or rather, she did) fight any enemies after Malak. And in keeping in character, Revan was a tactician; it is just as likely that Revan's party outwitted and outsmarted foes as opposed to straight out killing them in a level playing field. Just a thought.

And indeed, why would Kreia be lying? She probably isn't, just as she isn't lying about Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. But we have to entertain both possibilities behind her words - that they are or aren't right- until we have something better to go on.

Oh I agree, but I also think we should give credit to Revan for the things he can (and 99.9% of time) does. He may be strategic but he also has great power, many people in the game comment on that and he does defeat Malak twice undoubtedly no matter what. I assume he defeated him in direct combat kinda like you assume Ragnos defeated Simus in direct combat, etc. And it's really not assumption that he gets stronger from the Leviathan, in game mechanics (simply that he gets stronger, not how, in what category, when, or anything else), natural logic, Malak's quote (and indeed, why would he be lying if he still thinks he'll win?) and things that happen in the game.

And we know he gets stronger after KOTOR simply from the fact that Bastila says he recovered his full memories which would have all the knowledge he plundered on Malachor V, the Jedi Acadedmies, possibly Korriban, most likely strategies, and knowledge of other things as well.

Oh and NJO Luke was very nearly killed by a Yuuzhan Vong warrior pretending to be the supreme overlord. Granted he was really tough, and Luke did win, but he's not all that god like.

and we are talking about njo luke why

i say tie

why do you always double post?

Echo!

He's yodeling.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I'm of the mind to think Revan's power may have come back gradually, but only because he was slowly regaining his memories. Outside of gameplay, there is nothing besides Malak's statement to show otherwise. Just a point there, tis all.

Also, you can't prove to me that he did or didn't fight at most 99.999 % to 10% of the nonstoryline neccessary enemies. Again, look at any of the books, or at the movies... Jedi just don't kill thousands of opponents at once... that is the result of game play neccessity.

True, conflict does make a huge difference, I think that's a good point. But specifically we have no idea of how much it affected Revan or even if he did (Or rather, she did) fight any enemies after Malak. And in keeping in character, Revan was a tactician; it is just as likely that Revan's party outwitted and outsmarted foes as opposed to straight out killing them in a level playing field. Just a thought.

And indeed, why would Kreia be lying? She probably isn't, just as she isn't lying about Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos. But we have to entertain both possibilities behind her words - that they are or aren't right- until we have something better to go on.

You are so wrong about those memory's...

He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.

Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.

Originally posted by Fishy
You are so wrong about those memory's...

He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.

Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.

Exactly, and if he beat Malak (who's considered stronger than Sidious) twice in a row and then gets much stronger he's got to be bad ass.

Originally posted by Fishy
You are so wrong about those memory's...

He didn't regain anything more then he already had. Well not a lot, and he never would. Thats what everybody said, everybody that could know. The things that returned to him were just not destroyed and it wouldn't make him any stronger because it were just a few memory's. Revan his true power only returned after the Star Forge when he found out a way against all odds to make his memory return, even when everybody thought it was impossible because it was destroyed. Which also kinda proves how smart he was, when everybody says he can never regain his memory and he does. He somehow managed to make a destroyed mind whole again, you would need some amazing powers and a brilliant mind to do that.

Anyways back to the point, Revan got a lot stronger after the Star Forge because he regained the knowledge he had before Malak his betrayal. Meaning his fight against Malak was in a far weaker state then he would be some time later.

Fishy, you're cool. And so is Emperor... DOn't take anything I say offensively

But I didn't make two cents out of anything you said in that first paragraph, and what I did kinda sorta make sense out of is totally unsupported.

So if you can reword that and provide some good support, I'll comment.

I must admit I am somewhat confused at both Fishy's and Janus's statements.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Fishy, you're cool. And so is Emperor... DOn't take anything I say offensively

But I didn't make two cents out of anything you said in that first paragraph, and what I did kinda sorta make sense out of is totally unsupported.

So if you can reword that and provide some good support, I'll comment.

He's saying Revan barely had any of his old memories (if at all) during KOTOR. So barely any knowledge of the Jedi, Sith, and more. After he regains his full memories, he gets much stronger from all the knowledge he plundered from the Jedi academies, Malachor V, possibly Korriban, most likely some battle strategies and more.

Hmm well that, and sorry for being so vague but I wrote that in a hurry.

What I was trying to say was this,

Everybody said Revan could never regain his memory because it was destroyed.

Somehow he did, in less then a year.

Probably six months or so considering what Bastila says on Korriban in the holocon.

Meaning Revan found a way to repair destroyed minds against all odds, everybody thought it was impossible but he pulled it off.

Even with help from the Star Forge it would be quite the achievement, because there is no evidence the Star Forge stores force techniques.

So that would mean Revan discovered or created a force technique that masters have called impossible, and they probably had some experience in it.

Well, we don't know how Revan recovered his memories. I'm thinking it was willpower and possibly a botched job by the council coupled with his bond and love for Bastila.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Well, we don't know how Revan recovered his memories. I'm thinking it was willpower and possibly a botched job by the council coupled with his bond and love for Bastila.

The council didn't fail in its effort to destroy Revan his mind, we can know that for sure. They would never fail with Revan his mind, its far to dangerous. I mean they knew damn well that he was brilliant and powerful, if he recovered his memories it would be a great danger. So there is just no way the council didn't do everything they could to destroy it.

His love for Bastila might give him some extra power but it would not make him recover his memory, Bastila doesn't have the power. Besides Bastila doesn't know his past or at least nothing really specific so she couldn't make him recover it all, let alone stand the darker things.

And his willpower would make him learn faster, not give him back something that was as good as destroyed.

So Revan did learn a technique that would require an extreme load of power in a very short time. I mean we know that it would probably take a bunch of people to destroy people's mind. To recreate something that is already destroyed is harder, and Revan did it. Alone, if he didn't do it alone then he would have had Bastila to help him.

Imagine the power it would take if he was Light side, then he couldn't even have used the Star Forge to help him.

Originally posted by Fishy
The council didn't fail in its effort to destroy Revan his mind, we can know that for sure. They would never fail with Revan his mind, its far to dangerous. I mean they knew damn well that he was brilliant and powerful, if he recovered his memories it would be a great danger. So there is just no way the council didn't do everything they could to destroy it.

His love for Bastila might give him some extra power but it would not make him recover his memory, Bastila doesn't have the power. Besides Bastila doesn't know his past or at least nothing really specific so she couldn't make him recover it all, let alone stand the darker things.

And his willpower would make him learn faster, not give him back something that was as good as destroyed.

So Revan did learn a technique that would require an extreme load of power in a very short time. I mean we know that it would probably take a bunch of people to destroy people's mind. To recreate something that is already destroyed is harder, and Revan did it. Alone, if he didn't do it alone then he would have had Bastila to help him.

Imagine the power it would take if he was Light side, then he couldn't even have used the Star Forge to help him.

You're being a bit presumptuous here...

First off, the council had ot be selective in what they elminated from his memories, since they still needed his memories to find the Star Forge. Seeing as we haven't seen nor heard of a body of Jedi doing such an act before or since, we don't know how well they can do it. Perhaps this was their first attempt and they botched. Certainly, Revan recovered his memories after encountering Malak and being told who he was, but if that's all it took obviously the council didn't do a good enough job. Revan is strong, yes, but if a whole body of force users can't wipe his brain than obviously they can't do it permanently to anyone.

As for his love and bond with Bastila not helping... how can that be? It was through Bastila that Revan was reliving memories of the Star Forge map locations!

And lastly, I don't think the council can destroy anything... just supress it with a false identity.

Vrook really pissed me off when I found him on Danntooine. I rescue the dude and all he does is act like an ass and rant about me falling to the darkside during the wars. I was tempted to kill him but since I am doing LS first I restrained myself.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
You're being a bit presumptuous here...

First off, the council had ot be selective in what they elminated from his memories, since they still needed his memories to find the Star Forge. Seeing as we haven't seen nor heard of a body of Jedi doing such an act before or since, we don't know how well they can do it. Perhaps this was their first attempt and they botched. Certainly, Revan recovered his memories after encountering Malak and being told who he was, but if that's all it took obviously the council didn't do a good enough job. Revan is strong, yes, but if a whole body of force users can't wipe his brain than obviously they can't do it permanently to anyone.

As for his love and bond with Bastila not helping... how can that be? It was through Bastila that Revan was reliving memories of the Star Forge map locations!

And lastly, I don't think the council can destroy anything... just supress it with a false identity.

Yeah they couldn't have destroyed everything but they did a damn good job in destroying what they wanted, i'm pretty sure they were really careful. Even if it was the first time they made sure to destroy pretty much whatever they could.

Revan did not regain his memory through Bastila, thats just what he was told that they shared it. But how could Bastila have known, maybe she managed to push him. But it was more of Revan that controlled Bastila then Bastila controlling Revan.

And yeah his mind was destroyed, Bastila says so, okay she could be lying but I do not see why, especially not when she is Dark Side. She would have no reason to lie.

Revan regained a few vague memory's when Malak told him who he was, but nothing specific nothing special. He wouldn't have remembered the details.

Besides moments of shock can give people back some parts of their memory but they would need a lot more to regain all, Revan already saw the Star Forge and Korriban so that couldn't have done it either, he managed to find a technique and he turned it all around. Thats the only logical conclusion I can draw from it all.

Yeah, but a few things:

- Bastila and Revan share his memories. They were connected when she healed him. While Revan's mind was supposively "destroyed" in the attack, he regained his full memories, which means that either a) his mind was never destroyed in the attack or the mind wipe or b) Bastila somehow helped him regain his memories.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Yeah, but a few things:

- Bastila and Revan share his memories. They were connected when she healed him. While Revan's mind was supposively "destroyed" in the attack, he regained his full memories, which means that either a) his mind was never destroyed in the attack or the mind wipe or b) Bastila somehow helped him regain his memories.

How come Bastila did it? She kept him alive using the force it created a bond but she did not get his memories if she did then Revan would have been killed and she would already have found the Star Forge.

Now yeah it could have helped him, but I don't see how Bastila could have made Revan regain his memory's. He did it on his own, and they could have very well been destroyed, but the force can do a lot even repair minds, and with somebody like Revan I would not be surprised if it did.

Fishy whats up?

Originally posted by Fishy
How come Bastila did it? She kept him alive using the force it created a bond but she did not get his memories if she did then Revan would have been killed and she would already have found the Star Forge.

Now yeah it could have helped him, but I don't see how Bastila could have made Revan regain his memory's. He did it on his own, and they could have very well been destroyed, but the force can do a lot even repair minds, and with somebody like Revan I would not be surprised if it did.

Well, for one thing, the memories themselves cannot be destroyed, only suppressed or the thinking organ (Brain) damaged so that it cannot retrieve it. I doubt very much that even the Force can do much more than add a false layer to one's brain. If the Jedi Council can literally destroy one's memories forever, what they did was a greater evil than the Sith.

Now, saying that it was solely Revan's willpower that brought his own memories back is a bit silly. Let's consider this much:

- He had a bond with Bastila that was fuelling dreams about his past, and about the Star Forge. As Bastila says, "Perhaps we were dreaming of Revan and Malak because we wanted to". Don't you find it funny that Revan's recalled memories throughout the game are in alignment with what the council and Bastila are trying to find out?

- If the memories were destroyed, they would cease to exist. Hence, Revan nor the council nor the Force itself could bring them back, unless (and this is a real longshot here... pure speculation) that memories leave imprints in the Force or something to that effect.

- Third, the jedi council and Revan wouldn't have killed Revan and found the Star Forge if they could retrieve his memories... that's totally out of character. Remember, Bastila went out of her way to save REvan's life. She secretly revered him, and was bothered to have a hand in the downfall of such a promising young former jedi. As for the council, they do not believe in execution; it is anathema to the jedi code. Revan was worth redemption, even after his crimes.

They would not have put him in that possition if they didn't have a choice you know that much.

And No I don't think its funny he remembed what he had to when he had to depending on the planet he was on. You have to remember that certain places bring back memories, certain emotions certain feelings. Thats what happens in real life too. Bastila had nothing to do with it, she couldn't have. She could have done nothing but reinforce his will, making him more eager to regain his past, thats it.

I still think you're giving Revan and his willpower too much credit in this instance... and as for places bringing back memories, he had every dream while on the ship. He had a dream of Bastila confronting Revan and killing a dark jedi while on Dantooine in a bunk on the Ebon Hawk, a ship he had nevr been on before.

He heard of Bastila and had seen Bastila, she brougt the memory back.

He went to the planet of which he had his dream, thats the point of it all. At least thats how I see it. And i'm not giving his willpower that much credit just his connection to the force and his ability to learn because I do think he found what the Jedi council tried to hide for ever.

Well, we could go back and forth on this all day.

Point is... Wait, what was the original point?

I don't remember.

I don't either...

Anyway, the Jedi council didn't destroy Revan's mind, the blast did that. Bastila saved his life, and brought him back to the Jedi council who simply gave him new memories. Like Fishy said, even though everyone thought it was impossible, Revan recovered his full memories and overcame the combined power of the Jedi council's programming.

But this whole thing comes back to the fact that Revan had barely any memories of his own, not even remembering his name when people talked about things he had done, and within a year, he recovered his full memories. His power has to be bad ass.

How did Revan get into a Malak vs the Exile thread anyway?

who cut off malaks jaw or do we not no

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I don't either...

Anyway, the Jedi council didn't destroy Revan's mind, the blast did that. Bastila saved his life, and brought him back to the Jedi council who simply gave him new memories. Like Fishy said, even though everyone thought it was impossible, Revan recovered his full memories and overcame the combined power of the Jedi council's programming.

But this whole thing comes back to the fact that Revan had barely any memories of his own, not even remembering his name when people talked about things he had done, and within a year, he recovered his full memories. His power has to be bad ass.

Yes, he had power to be badass, that's true. Woot. But my point remains is we don't know any specifics about exctly what the council did to him, just assumptions right and left.

Originally posted by Rayvann Sadow
How did Revan get into a Malak vs the Exile thread anyway?

"READ ABOVE QUOTE"
- The Voice of Shai'Tan

WHO CUT MALAKS FREAKING JAWW OFF

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
WHO CUT MALAKS FREAKING JAWW OFF

We don't know.

Darth Barney.

the exile wins this for the reason that the exile gets almostas good as revan and many people belive better and revan was still able to beat malak while he had the power of the star forge so in any situation the exile would whhoop malak but in the star forge it would be closer

- Where does it say the Exile was any where near Revan's level of power?

- Where does it show exactly how much more powerful Malak was withotu the Star Forge to aid him?

revan did get killed by malak though and i dont remember malak being much stronger than revan and why he betrayed revan is beyond my knowledge

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
revan did get killed by malak though and i dont remember malak being much stronger than revan and why he betrayed revan is beyond my knowledge

Say what? Ehh?

ugh ill copy paste just one second

The Sith Lords had somehow amassed a huge military force, and with each world that they conquered, they added to their legions. Disturbingly, many Jedi Knights and Republic soldiers switched sides, joining forces with the growing Sith movement. The Republic stood on the verge of collapse from the repeated attacks of Darth Malak's forces.

Fueling the Sith conquest was the Star Forge. An ancient device of amazing Rakatan engineering, the Star Forge was an immense space-bound factory station that churned out an endless supply of vessels and combat materiel. Revan and Malak had found clues to its existence during their time in the Unknown Regions, and were able to uncover the Star Forge's location in orbit over an incredibly ancient world.

The Jedi Council, in a last ditch effort to stop Revan and Malak, engineered a trap for the Sith Lords. Though the snare neutralized Darth Revan, Malak escaped and took control of the Sith forces. Some claim that Malak fled the battle. Others maintain that he survived simply because he was stronger than Revan. Still others believe Malak turned on Revan, using the Jedi's attack as an opportunity to wrest control from his former Master's failing grip. Whatever the truth, Malak survived, and returned with a vengeance.

if you dont believe me go to starwars.com look up darth malak and then read all of it

malak was not stronger than revan and not even close, revan could beat him in the star forge and malak could heal himself from the dead jedi. When revan was first the dark lord of the sith he was a lot stronger than malak and this is said throughout the story and the fact that malak had to take a cowardly attack to kill him shows that he feared him. malak mentions that if revan had use the power of the star forge that malak had he would probably have become invincible which showed that malak believed himself to be inferior to him. Even as jedis malak was believed to be the worst of the pair. Now in KOTOR2 the exile learns all revans abilities, defeats three sith lords, one of them revans greatest teacher, one who can revive himself just before death and the other who could use the force to destroy opponents in a matter of seconds ( force eating ). Kreia also mentions that the exile becomes as great as revan if not better. therefor i believe the exile would destroy malak

Just where does Kreia say this?

revan was not the first sith lord
he chased the mandalorians then returned a sith so someone obviosly taugh him

at the end of the game when you beat darth traya she says it.

as long as you spare her

o well i kinda ...murdered her...... at the end of the game......haha and quite brutally

is it lol

o well it was fun while it lasted though i must say nights of the old republic was not as good as i expected it to be

it kind of sucks the way yo cant fight yourself and it sometimes gets a bit boring but the storyline was heavy

Originally posted by tommy vercetti
malak was not stronger than revan and not even close, revan could beat him in the star forge and malak could heal himself from the dead jedi. When revan was first the dark lord of the sith he was a lot stronger than malak and this is said throughout the story and the fact that malak had to take a cowardly attack to kill him shows that he feared him. malak mentions that if revan had use the power of the star forge that malak had he would probably have become invincible which showed that malak believed himself to be inferior to him. Even as jedis malak was believed to be the worst of the pair. Now in KOTOR2 the exile learns all revans abilities, defeats three sith lords, one of them revans greatest teacher, one who can revive himself just before death and the other who could use the force to destroy opponents in a matter of seconds ( force eating ). Kreia also mentions that the exile becomes as great as revan if not better. therefor i believe the exile would destroy malak

WTF? The Exile does NOT learn all of Revan's abilities. That's plain wrong. And he defeats one Sith Lord's will, another he beats at a complete disadvantage, and then you have Kreia who probably really didn't want to kill him in the first place. You're over glamorizing the Exile's achievements. And Kreia says that the Exile is her greatest student. Since she doesnt' elaborate as to say what great means (Best fighter, best listener, etc.) that statement is pretty broad and doesn't support a thing. She never -once- says the Exile is better than Revan. If anything, Kreia is training the exile so he can aid Revan, not destroy him.

O man, we have a lot of people that don't know much about the KOTOR's. First, no one taught Revan, he learned all about the Sith from Malachor V and Korriban, just like Kreia.

2nd: Kreia says the Exile is the best student she has ever trained. Perhaps best meaning the one she liked the most, perhaps not. In any case it doesn't matter, she only knew Revan when he was a Jedi and his power has multiplied since then. Besides, she calls Revan the heart of the Force and the Exile the death of the Force, which do you think is stronger?

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Besides, she calls Revan the heart of the Force and the Exile the death of the Force, which do you think is stronger?

Sorry, Emperor...but that question is somehow...erm...you know ?

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Sorry, Emperor...but that question is somehow...erm...you know ?

Yeah, uh, didn't think that one through too well did I? Even still, she also calls Revan power and not the Exile.

Revan=power and the heart of the Force

Exile=death of the Force

I'd say that's slightly more in favor of Revan but it's not my best argument ever.

Mwahahahahahahah...

is this the one fish head

Please don't bump threads meaninglessly.