Vh1 Top 100 Best Hard Rock Artists

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Dr. Octagon
what do you guyz think of VH1's list?

1. Led Zeppelin
2. Black Sabbath
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. AC/DC
5. Metallica
6. Nirvana
7. Van Halen
8. The Who
9. Guns N' Roses
10. KISS
11. Aerosmith
12. The Sex Pistols
13. Queen
14. Soundgarden
15. Pink Floyd
16. Cream
17. The Ramones
18. Ozzy Osbourne
19. The Clash
20. Alice Cooper
21. Pearl Jam
22. Deep Purple
23. Judas Priest
24. Iron Maiden
25. Cheap Trick
26. Motorhead
27. Iggy Pop/ The Stooges
28. Rush
29. Motley Crue
30. Red Hot Chili Peppers
31. Def Leppard
32. The Doors
33. Rage Against The Machine
34. Alice in Chains
35. Jane's Addiction
36. Frank Zappa
37. Yardbirds
38. MC5
39. Neil Young & Crazy Horse
40. Stone Temple Pilots
41. Ted Nugent
42. The Kinks
43. Nine Inch Nails
44. ZZ Top
45. Pantera
46. Scorpions
47. The Rollins Band/ Black Flag
48. Janis Joplin
49. Smashing Pumpkins
50. Slayer
51. Thin Lizzy
52. Faith No More
53. Korn
54. Sonic Youth
55. Blue Oyster Cult
56. White Zombie
57. Heart
58. Anthrax
59. Bad Company
60. The New York Dolls
61. Jethro Tull
62. Ministry
63. Boston
64. Steppenwolf
65. The Cult
66. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
67. Rolling Stones
68. Husker Du
69. Megadeth
70. Living Colour
71. Lynyrd Skynyrd
72. Foo Fighters
73. Twisted Sister
74. Pat Benatar
75. Spinal Tap
76. Bon Jovi
77. Hole
78. Marilyn Manson
79. Ratt
80. Green Day
81. Pixies
82. Queensryche
83. King's X
84. UFO
85. Whitesnake
86. Foreigner
87. King Crimson
88. Tool
89. Lita Ford
90. Rainbow
91. Danzig
92. The Black Crowes
93. Lenny Kravitz
94. Yes
95. Fugazi
96. Meat Loaf
97. Primus
98. Mountain
99. Bad Brains
100. Quiet Riot

SlipknoT
I am offended that Slayer is Only at number 50. The only Bands that i could understand being above them are Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden.

And how the Hell is Korn on that List but no Slipknot? And How the hell is Korn above Anthrax, Megadeth, Tool, Danzig and The Blue Oyster Cult?


Good Bands on the List but Way out of place.

tabby999
dont think ZZ Top are worth their ranking

Morgoths_Wrath
there are a lot of bands on that list that I wouldn't even consider to be "hard rock"

ElectricBugaloo
cause we all know that VH1 is all about hard rock

Morgoths_Wrath
nice to see Sonic Youth on there...even though they are alternative...you might even consider them punk

but not hard rock.

and why is Pink Floyd on that list??

c'mon, VH1. this list is awesomely bad at best.

StinkFist462
whats this list judged on?

Pernille
Nirvana's too high, Queen to low.

mr.smiley
Vh1 do too many of these list.Most of them suck and are questionably decided by Maxium Magazine and a few executives at Vh1.They claim this list was decided on by the rockers themselfs but I highly doubt this.Pearl Jam gets placed at 21 yet Slipknot,Fear Factory,Type O Negative and too many others to name are left out.I think something very funny is going on or Vh1 just has some bad judgement.

SlipknoT
Or that Jethro Tull is above megadeth and Danzig

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Ooo, I love rawkin' out to Bon Jovi!

Darth Revan
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SlipknoT
True, after Kurts Death they got way overrated

Cinemaddiction
I was watching "Nirvana: Unplugged in NY" bootleg DVD I bought this afternoon and I was saying to myself that it's a shame that a band as talented as they got dragged through the mud over a stupid murder, thus kids latching onto them.

Cobain was a great vocalist, especially in acoustic sets. If you wanna disagree, take a listen to "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" on the Unplugged album, or either of the tracks with the Meat Puppets.

As a whole, they were held in such high regard for ushering in a movement, and not so much the quality of their music. Cashed in a dress code, and added some attitude. WTF. They were still a good band, but no means out of this world, and more 50 - 60 material.

alic88
queen should be in the top 10
and i dont know why foo fighters and lenny kravitz got into that list

alic88
and where the hell is dream theater?

Lana
There are so many bands that shouldn't even be on there.

And Tool and Faith No More both should be waaaaaaaaaaaaay higher.

SlipknoT
Slayer Should be Number 1 or 2, easily.

Bardock42
What exactly do they consider Hard Rock? ...very strange....

Darth Revan
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
I was watching "Nirvana: Unplugged in NY" bootleg DVD I bought this afternoon and I was saying to myself that it's a shame that a band as talented as they got dragged through the mud over a stupid murder, thus kids latching onto them.

Cobain was a great vocalist, especially in acoustic sets. If you wanna disagree, take a listen to "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" on the Unplugged album, or either of the tracks with the Meat Puppets.

As a whole, they were held in such high regard for ushering in a movement, and not so much the quality of their music. Cashed in a dress code, and added some attitude. WTF. They were still a good band, but no means out of this world, and more 50 - 60 material.

Don't get me wrong, I like Nirvana quite a bit, I just think there are people who blow their greatness way out of proportion.

*Alison*
But it isn't just their music that makes Nirvana as great as they are/were. It was what they did, and how and when they did it.

You guys not even remember 1992? I'm still eternally thankful that Nevermind came out and made all the hair metal and Color Me Badd type sh!t dissapear practically overnight.

SlipknoT
I was like 5 In 92' so no i dont remember it to well stick out tongue

Bardock42
Originally posted by SlipknoT
I was like 5 In 92' so no i dont remember it to well stick out tongue
I was 6 ...HA...Beat you...well actually I was five for half that year sad

But to answer Alison's question...no I don't remember either....

SlipknoT
I was 4 for Half the year sad

Alpha Centauri
Nirvana were very good but they weren't even the best band out of the movement they supposedly championed.

-AC

Darth Revan
Originally posted by *Alison*
But it isn't just their music that makes Nirvana as great as they are/were. It was what they did, and how and when they did it.

You guys not even remember 1992? I'm still eternally thankful that Nevermind came out and made all the hair metal and Color Me Badd type sh!t dissapear practically overnight.

What about all the bands that did the same thing Nirvana did, did it before they became popular, and did it better?

Nirvana will always remain one of my favorites, but they only popularized the genre... Quite by accident I might add, even to the point where Kurt was unhappy about the band's success.

MildPossession
What are The Doors doing on that hard rock list?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Darth Revan
What about all the bands that did the same thing Nirvana did, did it before they became popular, and did it better?

Nirvana will always remain one of my favorites, but they only popularized the genre... Quite by accident I might add, even to the point where Kurt was unhappy about the band's success.

Exactly.

Alice in Chains and Soundgarden are both much better. I prefer Pearl Jam to Nirvana also. Then there's Mudhoney, reasonably obscure.

-AC

Bardock42
Can soeone please explain to me what classifies Hard Rock?

Alpha Centauri
Tool classify themselves as Hard Rock, though that might not be the best example.

Erm, Audioslave, Rage mostly, Zeppelin.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
I suppose it's metal(ish) music with rock(ish) singing.

Darth Revan
I think that according to VH1 it's any artist who uses guitar distortion occasionally no expression

Bardock42
But how does that justify Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Queen, The Who, The Doors, Neil Young (What the f**k? ) and others? ... very strange list......

BackFire
VH1...yeah, they're definately a valid authority on the subject. Of course they're list sucks.

VH1 is MTV for 30 year olds.

mr.smiley
Originally posted by Bardock42
But how does that justify Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Queen, The Who, The Doors, Neil Young (What the f**k? ) and others? ... very strange list......


I considered most of them hard rock.Zepplin where pioneers for hard rock,they deserve number one.Now if it was Heavy Metal we where talking about I could see why none of those bands would make it on the list.The problem is Vh1 tried to blur the lines too much in this list,mixing slayer with Pearl jam.

Imaginary
Marilyn Manson is higher than Tool?

SlipknoT
Marylin Manson on a Best of List?

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Don't get me wrong, I like Nirvana quite a bit, I just think there are people who blow their greatness way out of proportion.

Yep, they're kinda like the Beatles, I like them, they're one of my favorite bands, but in no way should they be higher then the Doors. Also, why are the Doors even on there, them and Pink Floyd are more phsycadelic rock than hard.

mr.smiley
I think with the Doors it was all about their rebellion.Back in the day those where some pretty risky lyrics coming out of Mr.Jims mouth.

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by mr.smiley
I think with the Doors it was all about their rebellion.Back in the day those where some pretty risky lyrics coming out of Mr.Jims mouth.

Indeed, but how are they hard rock, they may qualify on a list of greatest psycadelic bands, or greatest bands to get wacked out of your mind to, but they're not hard rock. Perhaps they mean rock as whole.

Cinemaddiction
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Don't get me wrong, I like Nirvana quite a bit, I just think there are people who blow their greatness way out of proportion.

Mostly kids. The same is done for virtually every artist that died before their time. I think Hendrix is overrated, and his talent isn't in question. It's a case of what I feel to be legitimate overpraise.

Lana
I grew up on Nirvana....as in I was listening to them at the age of three blink yeah, my mom's got great musical taste and passed it on to me at an early age. I remember buying a cassette of Nevermind when I was in kindergarten or first grade laughing out loud

While they are indeed very good, and will always be a favorite of mine, I also recognize that a lot of people tend to overrate them a lot, and that there are better bands.

Darth Revan
Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
Indeed, but how are they hard rock, they may qualify on a list of greatest psycadelic bands, or greatest bands to get wacked out of your mind to, but they're not hard rock. Perhaps they mean rock as whole.

They semi-mean hard rock. I think I remember seeing a list of greatest rock and roll artists in general on the vh1 website, and there were a bunch of gospel and soul singers on it... I guess if that's what you consider "rock," The Doors are pretty heavy. no expression

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
Slayer Should be Number 1 or 2, easily. LMFAO!!!1

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by Darth Revan
They semi-mean hard rock. I think I remember seeing a list of greatest rock and roll artists in general on the vh1 website, and there were a bunch of gospel and soul singers on it... I guess if that's what you consider "rock," The Doors are pretty heavy. no expression

Hell, I guess Elvis would be too.

StinkFist462
Originally posted by jks
LMFAO!!!1

whats so funny? its true.

RagnaViper
Originally posted by Dr. Octagon
what do you guyz think of VH1's list?

1. Led Zeppelin - Classic rock
2. Black Sabbath - True
3. Jimi Hendrix - Classic rock
4. AC/DC - True
5. Metallica - Old - Metal; Today - PopMetal
6. Nirvana - Grunge
7. Van Halen - Ed's enough to make em metal
8. The Who - Classic Rock
9. Guns N' Roses - True
10. KISS - o.0
11. Aerosmith - No
12. The Sex Pistols - Punk
13. Queen - Could fit the bill
14. Soundgarden - Grunge
15. Pink Floyd - Psychadelic/Prog Rock
16. Cream - Classic Rock
17. The Ramones - Punk
18. Ozzy Osbourne - Early Hard Rock, later on the Metal side
19. The Clash - Punk
20. Alice Cooper - Forgot, sue me
21. Pearl Jam - I suppose
22. Deep Purple - Yep
23. Judas Priest - Metal
24. Iron Maiden - Metal (also better than everyone above)
25. Cheap Trick - I've always called em basic rock
26. Motorhead - Yep
27. Iggy Pop/ The Stooges - Also forgot about these guys
28. Rush - Prog and is way too low
29. Motley Crue - Yep
30. Red Hot Chili Peppers - Alt Rock
31. Def Leppard - Uh...
32. The Doors - Classic Rock
33. Rage Against The Machine - Yep, but more like Rapcore
34. Alice in Chains - Right on
35. Jane's Addiction - Yep
36. Frank Zappa - Don't care
37. Yardbirds - Forgot about these guys
38. MC5 - See above
39. Neil Young & Crazy Horse - Again see above
40. Stone Temple Pilots - A bit hard rock but more grunge
41. Ted Nugent - True
42. The Kinks - Old Punk
43. Nine Inch Nails - Industrial (Pop Rock w/ synth)
44. ZZ Top - Oh my god... no...
45. Pantera - Metal and should be much higher
46. Scorpions - Either metal or Hard Rock
47. The Rollins Band/ Black Flag - Uh... punk?
48. Janis Joplin - No clue
49. Smashing Pumpkins - No clue... maybe
50. Slayer - Metal
51. Thin Lizzy - Forgot the genre on these guys too
52. Faith No More - Metal but weird metal
53. Korn - F*** you VH1
54. Sonic Youth - Close enough
55. Blue Oyster Cult - This makes me happy
56. White Zombie - Yay, but more metal
57. Heart - Never heard of em
58. Anthrax - Metal/Hard Rock
59. Bad Company - Forgot
60. The New York Dolls - Forgot
61. Jethro Tull - Definitely Hard Rock inspiration
62. Ministry - Industrial
63. Boston - Meh
64. Steppenwolf - See above
65. The Cult - Close
66. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts - Never heard of em
67. Rolling Stones - Classic rock
68. Husker Du - ...?
69. Megadeth - Metal
70. Living Colour - More like punk with distortion but close
71. Lynyrd Skynyrd - Close enough
72. Foo Fighters - Pop rock
73. Twisted Sister - Glam rock
74. Pat Benatar - No clue
75. Spinal Tap - F**K YEAH! But metal
76. Bon Jovi - No...
77. Hole - No clue
78. Marilyn Manson - No idea just crap
79. Ratt - Yep
80. Green Day - Punk
81. Pixies - Old punk
82. Queensryche - Yep
83. King's X - Prog but I can see where there would be confusion
84. UFO - Close enough
85. Whitesnake - Yep
86. Foreigner - No clue
87. King Crimson - Prog
88. Tool - Prog
89. Lita Ford - No clue
90. Rainbow - YAY
91. Danzig - Yep
92. The Black Crowes - Not sure
93. Lenny Kravitz - What the f***?
94. Yes - Classic rock
95. Fugazi - Pop rock
96. Meat Loaf - No clue
97. Primus - Close enough
98. Mountain - Eh...
99. Bad Brains - Close enough
100. Quiet Riot - Yep and should be WAY higher

Hornyman
Originally posted by Dr. Octagon
what do you guyz think of VH1's list?

1. Led Zeppelin
2. Black Sabbath
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. AC/DC
5. Metallica
6. Nirvana
7. Van Halen
8. The Who
9. Guns N' Roses
10. KISS
11. Aerosmith
12. The Sex Pistols
13. Queen
14. Soundgarden
15. Pink Floyd
16. Cream
17. The Ramones
18. Ozzy Osbourne
19. The Clash
20. Alice Cooper
21. Pearl Jam
22. Deep Purple
23. Judas Priest
24. Iron Maiden
25. Cheap Trick
26. Motorhead
27. Iggy Pop/ The Stooges
28. Rush
29. Motley Crue
30. Red Hot Chili Peppers
31. Def Leppard
32. The Doors
33. Rage Against The Machine
34. Alice in Chains
35. Jane's Addiction
36. Frank Zappa
37. Yardbirds
38. MC5
39. Neil Young & Crazy Horse
40. Stone Temple Pilots
41. Ted Nugent
42. The Kinks
43. Nine Inch Nails
44. ZZ Top
45. Pantera
46. Scorpions
47. The Rollins Band/ Black Flag
48. Janis Joplin
49. Smashing Pumpkins
50. Slayer
51. Thin Lizzy
52. Faith No More
53. Korn
54. Sonic Youth
55. Blue Oyster Cult
56. White Zombie
57. Heart
58. Anthrax
59. Bad Company
60. The New York Dolls
61. Jethro Tull
62. Ministry
63. Boston
64. Steppenwolf
65. The Cult
66. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
67. Rolling Stones
68. Husker Du
69. Megadeth
70. Living Colour
71. Lynyrd Skynyrd
72. Foo Fighters
73. Twisted Sister
74. Pat Benatar
75. Spinal Tap
76. Bon Jovi
77. Hole
78. Marilyn Manson
79. Ratt
80. Green Day
81. Pixies
82. Queensryche
83. King's X
84. UFO
85. Whitesnake
86. Foreigner
87. King Crimson
88. Tool
89. Lita Ford
90. Rainbow
91. Danzig
92. The Black Crowes
93. Lenny Kravitz
94. Yes
95. Fugazi
96. Meat Loaf
97. Primus
98. Mountain
99. Bad Brains
100. Quiet Riot

Jimmi Hendrix is great and all but he doesn't belong on that list. He's going up against completely different bands.

jks
Originally posted by StinkFist462
whats so funny? its true. Hardly. LMFAO!!!

SlipknoT
Slayer, out of that list Destroy nearly all the other bands....and Comsidering your first post was "LMFAO!!1" I'm going to assume you dont know a thing about rock music I.E a Simple Plan fan.

Bardock42
Originally posted by SlipknoT
Slayer, out of that list Destroy nearly all the other bands....and Comsidering your first post was "LMFAO!!1" I'm going to assume you dont know a thing about rock music I.E a Simple Plan fan.

I never actually listened to slayer but at least they sound like Hard Music Band....although some of the bands on there are pretty ****ing awesome.....

Alpha Centauri
To say Slayer destroy nearly all of them is silly.

I can name a few bands on there better than Slayer.

-AC

Deathblow
Originally posted by RagnaViper
43. Nine Inch Nails - (Pop Rock w/ synth)

Have you ever heard NIN before? blink

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
Slayer, out of that list Destroy nearly all the other bands....and Comsidering your first post was "LMFAO!!1" I'm going to assume you dont know a thing about rock music I.E a Simple Plan fan. LMFAO

Let's see, araya's voice is crap, king is about THE single worst lead player of all time, and hanneman isn't much better. They have absolutely no diversity in their songwriting. The only thing they have going for them is lombardo or bostaph when he was with them, slayer's always had great drummers, but yeah, I can see why a band with very little ability "destroy" all the other bands on the list, LMFAO!!!

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To say Slayer destroy nearly all of them is silly.

I can name a few bands on there better than Slayer.

-AC I can name a lot of bands on that list that are better than slayer.

Alpha Centauri
Yeah but you might be a really big fan of some shitty bands.

NIN have pretty much been reduced to being dark pop with synth.

-AC

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by Deathblow
Have you ever heard NIN before? blink

Holy shit, you're still alive!

intoxicatedpoet
I think KISS was way too high on that list.

StinkFist462
i think TOOL are way to low on that list.

SlipknoT
Originally posted by jks
LMFAO

Let's see, araya's voice is crap, king is about THE single worst lead player of all time, and hanneman isn't much better. They have absolutely no diversity in their songwriting. The only thing they have going for them is lombardo or bostaph when he was with them, slayer's always had great drummers, but yeah, I can see why a band with very little ability "destroy" all the other bands on the list, LMFAO!!! You've said your part...Now just wondering what bands you listen to?

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
You've said your part...Now just wondering what bands you listen to? Off of that list..
1. Led Zeppelin
2. Black Sabbath
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. AC/DC
5. Metallica
6. Nirvana
7. Van Halen
9. Guns N' Roses
10. KISS
11. Aerosmith
12. The Sex Pistols
13. Queen
17. The Ramones
18. Ozzy Osbourne
20. Alice Cooper
26. Motorhead
31. Def Leppard
34. Alice in Chains
40. Stone Temple Pilots
41. Ted Nugent
43. Nine Inch Nails
44. ZZ Top
45. Pantera
50. Slayer
51. Thin Lizzy
52. Faith No More
55. Blue Oyster Cult
56. White Zombie
58. Anthrax
62. Ministry
63. Boston
65. The Cult
67. Rolling Stones
69. Megadeth
73. Twisted Sister
91. Danzig


Not to mention bands not on the list like dream theater, nevermore, carcass, exodus, testament....etc

Alpha Centauri
Twisted Sister? I don't think anything need be said.

Kerry King is one of the best leads of all time, so way to invalidated yourself by calling him the worst ever.

-AC

SlipknoT
Originally posted by jks
Off of that list..


3. Jimi Hendrix
4. AC/DC
6. Nirvana
7. Van Halen
9. Guns N' Roses
10. KISS
11. Aerosmith
12. The Sex Pistols
13. Queen
17. The Ramones
20. Alice Cooper
26. Motorhead
31. Def Leppard
40. Stone Temple Pilots
41. Ted Nugent
43. Nine Inch Nails
44. ZZ Top
51. Thin Lizzy
52. Faith No More
55. Blue Oyster Cult
56. White Zombie
58. Anthrax
62. Ministry
63. Boston
65. The Cult
67. Rolling Stones
69. Megadeth
73. Twisted Sister



Not to mention bands not on the list like dream theater, nevermore, carcass, exodus, testament....etc Those better than slayer? laughing out loud

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Twisted Sister? I don't think anything need be said.This coming from someone who said slipknot aren't an awful band in another thread.

Well, there went any credibility you thought you may have had. You obviously don't play guitar, because no one who does would call playing random notes out of key would be "one of the best leads of all time"


LMFAO!!!!!!!

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
Those better than slayer? laughing out loud You asked what bands I listened to, I lnamed the bands off the list that I LISTENED to, I said nothing about who was better than who, mr illiterate, but yeah, most of the bands on that list ARE better than slayer.

SlipknoT
How am I illiterate? Before you were Basically calling Slayer crap (so untrue) then I asked who you listened to and you came back with a list of bands that slayer shits all over...I fail to see your reasoning?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
This coming from someone who said slipknot aren't an awful band in another thread.

Is this a debate about who are the better band, Slipknot or Twisted Sister? Seriously? You can't be that stupid.

Originally posted by jks
Well, there went any credibility you thought you may have had. You obviously don't play guitar, because no one who does would call playing random notes out of key would be "one of the best leads of all time"

Lots of guitarists don't agree that Hendrix is the best ever, he is though.

See my point? You claimed Kerry is the worst of all time, or one of.

That's very, very false isn't it? Let's be honest here.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
How am I illiterate?Because you can't seem to read YOUR OWN POSTS. Because they are. ick up an instrument, learn it, and then listen to slayer fom a musicians view rather than a biased fanboy view. Not surprising.

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is this a debate about who are the better band, Slipknot or Twisted Sister? Seriously? You can't be that stupid.

So you ask if someone is stupid for liking one band more than another?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion

You can't be that stupid.

So what? Once you get to a certain level, you can get into a debate. It works with everything where people excel at something at a great level, just like asking who is the best baseball player or whatever.

No. And he is, just listen to his leads.

No. I am

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by jks
Off of that list..
1. Led Zeppelin
2. Black Sabbath
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. AC/DC
5. Metallica
6. Nirvana
7. Van Halen
9. Guns N' Roses
10. KISS
11. Aerosmith
12. The Sex Pistols
13. Queen
17. The Ramones
18. Ozzy Osbourne
20. Alice Cooper
26. Motorhead
31. Def Leppard
34. Alice in Chains
40. Stone Temple Pilots
41. Ted Nugent
43. Nine Inch Nails
44. ZZ Top
45. Pantera
50. Slayer
51. Thin Lizzy
52. Faith No More
55. Blue Oyster Cult
56. White Zombie
58. Anthrax
62. Ministry
63. Boston
65. The Cult
67. Rolling Stones
69. Megadeth
73. Twisted Sister
91. Danzig


Not to mention bands not on the list like dream theater, nevermore, carcass, exodus, testament....etc

Where are The Who?

jks
Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
Where are The Who? Not on the list of bands I listen to.

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by jks
Not on the list of bands I listen to.

no expression

The Who kick ass, they're better than Twisted Sister atleast.

jks
Originally posted by intoxicatedpoet
no expression

The Who kick ass, they're better than Twisted Sister atleast. Not to me.

intoxicatedpoet
Originally posted by jks
Not to me.

Meh, it's a matter of taste I guess.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
So you ask if someone is stupid for liking one band more than another?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion

You can't be that stupid.

Opinion is, as it says, a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

You can still have a wrong opinion. I can't make you agree and I can't scientifically prove that a band I like is better than a band you like but there comes a time where certain opinions are more right than others, because of the nature of the subject in question. Eg: Britney Spears is a great musician. The opinion is wrong.

As is yours.

Originally posted by jks
So what? Once you get to a certain level, you can get into a debate. It works with everything where people excel at something at a great level, just like asking who is the best baseball player or whatever.

You completely missed my point and it was easy enough to get, tsk.

Originally posted by jks
No. And he is, just listen to his leads.

So you are sanely proposing that Kerry King of Slayer is a worse lead guitarist than any other guitarist of all time? Seriously? Because I don't believe you are being serious.

Because that would mean he's worse than Simple Plan's lead guitarist, Taking Back Sunday's lead guitarist etc.

Originally posted by jks
No.

Yes, it's factually wrong. You are factually wrong. It's a fact that Kerry King isn't the worst lead guitarist of all time. Fact.

No offence, but you think that Twisted Sister are better than The Who. Your opinion is excrement.

Poet: It's not a matter of taste, don't be suckered into the coward tactic. If someone claims that NSync are better than Led Zeppelin, it's not a matter of taste is it? It's a matter of stupidity.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Opinion is, as it says, a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

You can still have a wrong opinion.No you can't Because we have knowledge and proof that britney is a bad musician. She can't play an instrument.

No, and I at least backed it up instead of reppeating the same "ur teh wrong" like you are doing.



No, YOU completely missed my point, as evidenced by your post trying to change the argument.



I understand, your slayerfan and can't stand it when someone states something negative about your hero.
I've never heard them, but that doesn't change the fact that king isn't very good.



Do me a favor, take that link I posted earlier, read it, and learn it. Now, replace "opinion" in the link with "fact" and read it, learn it, and perhaps you won't come off as such a jellyfish sucking mental midget in the future.

No, I said I LIKE TS better than the who, learn to read AND comprehend, please.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion


CAre to try again?

SlipknoT
Originally posted by jks
Not surprising. Nice, Very Funny the way you Edited my Post, Creative, I've honeslty never seen it done, Where do you get these Crazy idead to Humor us?

jks
Originally posted by SlipknoT
Nice, Very Funny the way you Edited my Post, Creative, I've honeslty never seen it done, Where do you get these Crazy idead to Humor us? Pssst, I didn't edit it...I only messed up in quoting it....don't tell anyone.....

RagnaViper
Originally posted by Deathblow
Have you ever heard NIN before? blink

Yeah, and it's watered down industrial compared to real industrial bands like Ministry. It really does depend on the listener though. If you're not much of an industrial person, then it seems to be industrial. More hardcore industrial fans will tell you otherwise. Mostly, NIN is pop industrial.

Admittedly, I don't care too much for the genre description either. I was only made aware of this by a co-worker.

Dr. Strangelove
The only NIN album that is industrial is Pretty Hate Machine and it certainly isn't watered down. The rest do have industrial elements but they're so much more than that.

With Teeth is the only album that can be considered watered down and poppy. Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile have nothing that could be considered pop in it.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
No you can't

You can't have a wrong opinion? Where are you getting this from?

Eg: George Bush is a fantastic president and a good man.

That's an opinion, it's also wrong. Do some learning and stop using the coward technique that all idiots use.

Originally posted by jks
Because we have knowledge and proof that britney is a bad musician. She can't play an instrument.

You can't factually prove to me that she makes worse music than say...Slayer. She does, it's obvious. But you cannot factually prove that. Because a Britney fan can always say "She's better." regardless of how much you prove it.

Originally posted by jks
No, and I at least backed it up instead of reppeating the same "ur teh wrong" like you are doing.

But you are wrong though. Because technique can be measure and proven, so it's provable beyond doubt that Kerry King isn't the worst lead guitarist of all time.

Originally posted by jks
No, YOU completely missed my point, as evidenced by your post trying to change the argument.

I'm not. Being a guitarist doesn't make your point CONCRETE. As proven by saying that some guitarists don't think Hendrix is the best, when he is. You were just too stupid to get my point.

Originally posted by jks
I understand, your slayerfan and can't stand it when someone states something negative about your hero.

I'm no Slayer fan. I think they're a legendary band and I like a couple of their albums, that's about it. Way to make an assumption.

Originally posted by jks
I've never heard them, but that doesn't change the fact that king isn't very good.

He isn't the worst ever though. Which is what you claimed, who's changing their arguement now?

Originally posted by jks
Do me a favor, take that link I posted earlier, read it, and learn it. Now, replace "opinion" in the link with "fact" and read it, learn it, and perhaps you won't come off as such a jellyfish sucking mental midget in the future.

No, listen to me. Kerry King is factually NOT the worst ever. Why? Because if you put all the lead guitarists together, he factually has a better technique and ability than alot of them. So you are actually wrong to claim that he's the worst of all time.

Originally posted by jks
No, I said I LIKE TS better than the who, learn to read AND comprehend, please.

When Poet said they're better, you said "Not to me". You didn't say "Yes, but I prefer Twisted Sister."

Originally posted by jks
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion

CAre to try again?

Well, considering that you're the one who's got the wrong idea about what an opinion is. I suggest you try.

-AC

blaq ice
RoOster - Come Get some

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You can't have a wrong opinion? Where are you getting this from?Uhh, simple logic.

Saying something like bush is a good pres. is subjective. It can't be proven one way or the other because of that. Please educate yourself on this.



You can't factually prove to me that she makes worse music than say...Slayer.I know, because it's all up to the individual. I agree, but that's not the point. I think you're totally lost here.



Except I'm not, sorry. Exactly, technique can be proven, and the fact that kerry king has limited knowledge of scale, plays out of key, and just plays random notes show tht he is, in fact, among the worst lead players. Seriously, why would you argue against this since you obviously have no knowledge of guitar playing other than what you like?



No, but it shows I have a vastly superior amount of knowledge when it comes to the subject than you. Again, subjective. Like I said about comparing sports stars, once you reach a certain level, it's open to debate. Some may say hendrix is the best, others will say eddie van halen is because he displayed more technique than hendrix. Get it yet?



Way to back out of your stance because you are being dismantled.



Learn to read AND comprehend, please.

"king is about THE single worst lead player of all time"

Where was it said that he WAS the worst lead player, because what I'm reading is he is ABOUT the worst lead player.

I haven't heard anyone worse than king though, lol.



Ok, please do yourself a fqavor and look up the definition of fact and opinion and understand their meanings. You are embarrassing yourself here. You mean the technique of playing sloppy and out of key? Damn, I'm glad I wasn't taught that technique. Please, I'm begging you, tell me who is worse. Please educate yourself on the subject then get back to me.




Which is why I said you need to learn to COMPREHEND what is written. It can be proven the who has more musical ability than twisted sister, so when I state "not to me", that could only mean who I prefer.


Considering you have been completely destroyed because you have no idea what a fact and opinion are, and that you are trying to argue a subject that you yourself have proven that you have absolutely no knowledge of, I suggest YOU try.

Care to try again?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Uhh, simple logic.

Saying something like bush is a good pres. is subjective. It can't be proven one way or the other because of that. Please educate yourself on this.

It's not subjective because I can show you actions that contradict the person calling him a good president in the definition of the term.

Either way, opinions can be wrong, if not proven wrong. And one opinion can be more credible than another. THAT is a fact.

Originally posted by jks
I know, because it's all up to the individual. I agree, but that's not the point. I think you're totally lost here.

I'm not getting lost. You're missing the obvious point. I said "You can't prove Britney is a bad musician." You said "I can" to which I countered you and gave example as to why you can't. Despite it being, more or less, true. And you agreed.

Originally posted by jks
Except I'm not, sorry. Exactly, technique can be proven, and the fact that kerry king has limited knowledge of scale, plays out of key, and just plays random notes show tht he is, in fact, among the worst lead players. Seriously, why would you argue against this since you obviously have no knowledge of guitar playing other than what you like?

If you think Kerry King is a terrible guitarist, fine. I have no problem there. The fact is, you claimed that he was the WORST of ALL TIME. That, is factually wrong. Because there are technically worse guitarists. So yes, you're wrong.

Originally posted by jks
No, but it shows I have a vastly superior amount of knowledge when it comes to the subject than you. Again, subjective. Like I said about comparing sports stars, once you reach a certain level, it's open to debate. Some may say hendrix is the best, others will say eddie van halen is because he displayed more technique than hendrix. Get it yet?

You don't have a vastly superior amount of knowledge, or any knowledge, if you truly believe that Kerry King is worse than any other guitarist.

There are more technically gifted guitarists then Hendrix. Vai, Satch etc. Are any of them a better overall player than him? No.

Originally posted by jks
Way to back out of your stance because you are being dismantled.

Stance? You assumed Kerry King was my hero and that I was some rabid Slayer superfan. Anyone who knows me from this site knows that I never ever cite Slayer as one of my favourite bands. So no, you're trying to STRENGTHEN your stance by making blind assumption.

Originally posted by jks
Learn to read AND comprehend, please.

"king is about THE single worst lead player of all time"

Where was it said that he WAS the worst lead player

Let's see, here:

Originally posted by jks
And he is, just listen to his leads.

and here:
Originally posted by jks
I haven't heard anyone worse than king though, lol.

So heed your own advice. Learn to read and comprehend, try to remember what you post. Because I do.

Originally posted by jks
Ok, please do yourself a fqavor and look up the definition of fact and opinion and understand their meanings. You are embarrassing yourself here. You mean the technique of playing sloppy and out of key? Damn, I'm glad I wasn't taught that technique. Please, I'm begging you, tell me who is worse. Please educate yourself on the subject then get back to me.

Listen to me oh so very carefully now. Fact means that without doubt, with concrete proof and to the point that it cannot be denied. Kerry King, is not the worst lead guitarist of all time, fact. Why is that fact? Because there are lead guitarists WORSE than him. In your OPINION, there is no one worse than King. Now if you mean the music he makes, fine. I can't make you hear that as I do. If you mean technique, you're wrong. Because there are many bands on this planet, unsigned, underground, mainstream, who have worse leads than King.

By claiming he's the worst ever, you are insinuating that every band's lead guitarist is better than he is. EVERY band. Including the likes of My Chemical Romance etc.

Originally posted by jks
Which is why I said you need to learn to COMPREHEND what is written. It can be proven the who has more musical ability than twisted sister, so when I state "not to me", that could only mean who I prefer.

Stop barfing up the same garbage. You said "not to me" when it was suggested The Who are better. If you had specifically said that it was your preferance, fine.

Originally posted by jks
Considering you have been completely destroyed because you have no idea what a fact and opinion are, and that you are trying to argue a subject that you yourself have proven that you have absolutely no knowledge of, I suggest YOU try.

Care to try again?

Destroyed? Oh please. You've said the same thing about nine times in the row to no effect. In your defence, I have repeated myself too. However, I'm saying things that are actually facts. You're just saying stupid, uneducated and pathetic retorts of "educate yourself". Dude, you like Twisted Sister and you called Slayer crap.

Your opinion is about as invalid as Stephen Hawking.

-AC

BackFire
Buzzzzing!

RagnaViper
Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
The only NIN album that is industrial is Pretty Hate Machine and it certainly isn't watered down. The rest do have industrial elements but they're so much more than that.

With Teeth is the only album that can be considered watered down and poppy. Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile have nothing that could be considered pop in it.

Just to clarify...

Now, I'll agree with you on Pretty Hate Machine partly. It's a good industrial album, but the better classification is synth pop (with dark elements that give it an industrial feel). The problem is that they are referred to as industrial by so many, when they're clearly not so. Sure, they brought industrial to the mainstream, but they aren't actually industrial themselves. They're merely a synth pop band that has some industrial elements.

Sure, they browse around other genres, but for the most part NIN is synth pop with some industrial scattered on the top.

Alpha Centauri
One of the most overlooked facts about NIN is that they've/he's always had pop ELEMENTS to his music. March of the Pigs chorus, alot of The Fragile had that catchy, upbeat element.

I don't think I'd have ever called NIN pop, before now though.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not subjective because I can show you actions that contradict the person calling him a good president in the definition of the term.But even those actions YOU think make him a bad president are subjective.

An opinion, BY IT'S VERY DEFINITION, can never, I REPEATR NEVER, be wrong. That is true, just like my opinion on king's guitar playing is more credible than yours.



Perhaps you missed the part where I gave a valid FACT as to why she's not a good musician.



PLEASE LEARN TO ****ING READ. How many times must you be told to learn the definition of fact? SUBJECTIVE.



No, the fact that I believe that PROVES I have a vastly superior knowledge of the instrument than you.

LMFAO!!!!

This one is going in my sig on some of the musician forums I post on!



Reasonable assumption given that I've never seen anyone with an intellect higher than that of toilet fungus say king isn't one of the worst lead players.



Again with the lack of comprehension skills. "listen to his leads"- reason why he is one of the worst lead players.

"I haven't heard anyone worse" I haven't, fact. That doesn't mean there aren't any worse, I just ghaven't heard them.



Gooood. LEARN TO ****ING READ YOU GOD DAMN MORON!! I said kerry king is about the worst, not the single worst. Are your parents cousins? SUBJECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus ****ing tap dancing christ, a human being can't possibly be as stupid as you. Where?

Why the **** are you still ranting on this. What part of I didn't say he was the absolute worst plaer do you not seem to understand?



This coming from someone who is still ranting on a point he invened that was said to be otherwise many posts ago. It's not my fault you are too daft to grasp simple logic.



Ironic, considering that describes your entire argument. You have stated NO facts What part of that do you not understand? Saying king is not the worst lead player ever is NOT a fact, because it's ALL SUBJECTIVE!! BEcause you need to educate yourself. You know nothing about the art of guitar playing and your whole argument is based on what you like rather than actual ability. Please learn to read. Where did anyone say slayer was crap?

Another of your intellectual superiors, nice.


Now go ahead and spend 30 miutes of your life typing out some other inane retort to which everything you say in it will have already been shot down posts ago.

I must say you are quite amusing if nothing else. I mean hell, you are sitting there trying to attack me for saying king is one of the worst lead players ever when you are using the same rationale trying to say hendrix is the best ever. Hypocrite.

I'm going to copy and paste your posts on the previously mentioned musician forums that I regularly visit. I figure why should I be the only one having a laugh at your expense.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
But even those actions YOU think make him a bad president are subjective.

Not if there's a definition.

Originally posted by jks
An opinion, BY IT'S VERY DEFINITION, can never, I REPEATR NEVER, be wrong. That is true, just like my opinion on king's guitar playing is more credible than yours.

Your opinion on music isn't credible because you not only like a notoriously shit band in Twisted Sister, but you actually called a band like Slayer who are well respected, renown and cited by many great bands, crap.

Opinions can be wrong. What is your cowardly malfunction? If your opinion is that Simple Plan are a great band, sure you're entitled to that and I can't scientifically prove it to the point that you can't deny it. But I can bring about evidence to prove my reasoning, so once again, you're wrong.

Originally posted by jks
Perhaps you missed the part where I gave a valid FACT as to why she's not a good musician.

Why? Because she's not good on instruments? There are many great lead singers who have never played an instrument in their lives. Are they shit musicians? Another flawed example from a flawed poster making flawed points.

Originally posted by jks
SUBJECTIVE.

You can't change dictionary meanings. Opinion can be wrong. That's as far as I'm going on this, because you're just gonna keep posting the same BS and I'm going to have to keep typing why you're wrong.

Technique can be measured, so it can be proven that there are technically worse guitarists. If you got Kerry King in the room with every guitarist on Earth and put them in a contest of skill, he's not going to come last, is he?

Originally posted by jks
This one is going in my sig on some of the musician forums I post on!

Thanks, honoured. Now if we can continue:

Originally posted by jks
Reasonable assumption given that I've never seen anyone with an intellect higher than that of toilet fungus say king isn't one of the worst lead players.

Word to the not so wise: Sort out your grammar before you talk of people with bad intellect. You can barely string a sentence together.

Originally posted by jks
Again with the lack of comprehension skills. "listen to his leads"- reason why he is one of the worst lead players.

No, in the quote I posted from you, I had just said to you "You called King THE worst lead guitarist of all time." You replied "And he is. Listen to his leads." You asked me where it was said, I showed you. Problem? I see none.

Originally posted by jks
"I haven't heard anyone worse" I haven't, fact. That doesn't mean there aren't any worse, I just ghaven't heard them.

Well then why continually say he's the worst of all time?

Originally posted by jks
Gooood. LEARN TO ****ING READ YOU GOD DAMN MORON!!

Dude, who shit in your forum fritters this morning? Relax. Calm down and breathe.

Originally posted by jks
I said kerry king is about the worst, not the single worst.

I've quoted you saying that he IS the worst though. I've actually quoted you saying it.

Originally posted by jks
Are your parents cousins? SUBJECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus ****ing tap dancing christ, a human being can't possibly be as stupid as you.

Stop hiding behind the pitiful, coward technique of calling everything subjective just because you can't debate it. It's not cool and it's not intelligent.

Originally posted by jks
Where?

Haha, you're asking me where there are bands that have worse leads than Kerry King? Are you that dense?

Originally posted by jks
Why the **** are you still ranting on this. What part of I didn't say he was the absolute worst plaer do you not seem to understand?

And what part of "I've quoted you saying it" do you not understand? Do you want me to post the forum interraction in which you actually said it, for the second time?

Originally posted by jks
You have stated NO facts What part of that do you not understand? Saying king is not the worst lead player ever is NOT a fact, because it's ALL SUBJECTIVE!!

It's not subjective is it? Because if you put every guitarist in the world in a room and judged them on undeniable technique, Kerry King isn't coming last is he? No.

Originally posted by jks
BEcause you need to educate yourself. You know nothing about the art of guitar playing and your whole argument is based on what you like rather than actual ability.

Hahaha, that's the one thing I AM basing it on. Read above.

Originally posted by jks
Please learn to read. Where did anyone say slayer was crap?

Oh, this will be good:

Originally posted by SlipknoT
Before you were Basically calling Slayer crap (So untrue)...

Your reply:

Originally posted by jks
Because they are.

Please, try to get out of this. For my own entertainment at the very least.

Originally posted by jks
Another of your intellectual superiors, nice.

Was that meant to be a diss? Stephen Hawking being smarter than me is now an insult? He's smarter than most people.

Originally posted by jks
Now go ahead and spend 30 miutes of your life typing out some other inane retort to which everything you say in it will have already been shot down posts ago.

You really remind me of Jasper from Family Guy.

JKS: I shot down what you said posts ago. Subjective! You moron! Learn to read! *In a rather camp voice* See that's what I do, I throw insults then I honk the horn.

No offence dude, but I don't spend over 10 minutes typing my replies. You are replying too, so what seems to be your point?

Originally posted by jks
I must say you are quite amusing if nothing else. I mean hell, you are sitting there trying to attack me for saying king is one of the worst lead players ever when you are using the same rationale trying to say hendrix is the best ever. Hypocrite.

I'm not attacking you, if you took it that way it's your problem.

Stop all this "I called him ONE of the worst". I've quoted you saying he is the worst, just like I quoted you calling Slayer crap, which you also denied.

Originally posted by jks
I'm going to copy and paste your posts on the previously mentioned musician forums that I regularly visit.

And you tried to make fun of ME wasting minutes of my life? At least I only visit one forum, closet case.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not if there's a definition.
What the hell are you talking about?


Discrediting yourself #1 Discrediting yourself #2. My opinion is valid because I PLAY THE DAMN INSTRUMENT AND KNOW MORE ABOUT THEORY, TECHNIQUE AND ABILITY THAN YOU. Seriously, do you think saying my opinion isn't valid based on a band I like actually is helping your case?

Already proven false, moving on. Why aren't yu able to grasp how wrong you are even after having it explained to you?NO you can't, and I have explained that to you numerous times. If you are too stupid or too ignorant to accept it, that's your problem.




http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=musician

Now, given the FACTS that she doesn't play an instrument, doesn't write the majority of her material, needs studio help to make her voice sound good and lip synchs her concerts, what does that tell you? Another idiotic post from an idiotic poster shot down by me.



I know. Sorry, confirmed otherwise. You mean because I proved how you are wrong.

Yeah, I'm sure some kid who pickeed up a guitar for the first time this past monday wll be worse. Of course that isn't the point considering, for the 13th time, NO ONE SAID HE WAS THE SINGLE WORST PLAYER.



Actually, if oyu'd see the comments being made by more people who know more than you, you are humiliated.



Word to the wise: Make sure you know about proper grammar and sentence structure before trying to attack someone else's and you won't embarrass yourself as much as you just did.



That's your fault for posting "You called King THE worst lead guitarist of all time." when it was never said. It's my fault for assuming you could read and responded to what I skimmed over and assumed you quoted what I actually said. Please read my post disecting slayer's ability, my 3rd post in this thread.



Why do you continually ignore me saying that was never said?



My fault for assuming all people are of a reasonable intellect.



No you didn't. You said that I said he was the worst. I explained above how I skimmed over what you said and assumed you quoted what I actually said.



Why, because you can't argue against it other than "liek, omg ur teh cowurd tekneek" Every time I shoot down your posts with that, you always respond with the same thing. That's not very inelligent.



I haven't heard any. Don't whine and try to hide, lets have some.



What part of you ****ed up the quote do YOU not understand? Go ahead, so I can point out exactly where you ****ed up what I said.



Again, no one said he would. There are undeniably people who are new at playing who would be worse.



No it's not, because you don't have any knowledge on the subject. The only thing you know is by listening to it. You have no knowledge of theory, technique, scale, pitch, playing in key etc..



It will



Now, if we go back to my post talking about slayers ability, you'll notice I only said araya's voice was crap. Now, if we take a look at your statement of "Basically you were calling Slayer crap" to which I replied they are, it was because I was refering to their musicianship. Araya is an avg bassist, king is a horrible lead player. When I said they were NOT crap it was in reference to me liking the songs.



I know, but you were the one that said my post was as invalid as him when he is also smarter than you.



I can't say you remind me of anyone from anything because I've never come across someone so intellectually inept.



Alpha Centauri Ur teh wrong. Ur teh wrong. Ur teh wrong. Oh yeah, Ur teh wrong. I not no care what teh dikshunary says, I don't needs no book lurnin to no ur teh wrong. It not matter that i don't no nuffin bout how to play that thur geetar, Ur teh wrong. I not need to know reedin and writin *spits out a plug of tobacco* I just keep arguin' stuff that was proveded otherwise


How about respond to the point than another of your conviniant sheilds trying to dodge it.

Stop all this "I quoted you" crap when I already explained, in detail, how YOU are the one that ****ed the quotes up and/or were unable to comprehend what was written.



No, I'm making fun of you because you aren't very knowledgeable on a subject, have proven it, and yet you are still trying to argue on that subject with blatant mistruths.

RagnaViper
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
One of the most overlooked facts about NIN is that they've/he's always had pop ELEMENTS to his music. March of the Pigs chorus, alot of The Fragile had that catchy, upbeat element.

I don't think I'd have ever called NIN pop, before now though.

-AC

Well sure. They've never really been full on pop until now. As I said before, NIN browses genres too much to be called pop completely. But overall, the band is mostly dark synth pop.

Victor Von Doom
Just to interject, an opinion can actually be factually wrong.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Just to interject, an opinion can actually be factually wrong. Then by definition, it's not an opinion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion

Victor Von Doom
'A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof'.

I believe with confidence, but with no proof, that the Earth is flat.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
'A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof'.

I believe with confidence, but with no proof, that the Earth is flat. It's been proven otherwise....erm

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
It's been proven otherwise....erm

Thus the original opinions are...*drumroll*

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Discrediting yourself #1

So you call Slayer crap, and your opinion is still valid. I call Twisted Sister shit...and I'm discredited? Hahahahaahaha.

Originally posted by jks
Discrediting yourself #2. My opinion is valid because I PLAY THE DAMN INSTRUMENT AND KNOW MORE ABOUT THEORY, TECHNIQUE AND ABILITY THAN YOU. Seriously, do you think saying my opinion isn't valid based on a band I like actually is helping your case?

You're making alot of assumptions in that post aren't you? wink Yes. I've let you carry on because you're making a fool of yourself.

Joe Satriani is quite possibly the greatest guitarist on Earth in terms of ability to play, but he puts out alot of shit. See where I'm going champ?

Originally posted by jks
Already proven false, moving on.

No it's not. You just keep saying "Opinion can't be wrong. SUBJECTIVE!!!".

Originally posted by jks
NO you can't, and I have explained that to you numerous times. If you are too stupid or too ignorant to accept it, that's your problem.

Ignorant? You define ignorant. You are wrong here, I don't understand why you're not getting it. You either don't want to or your not that well versed in English Language.

Originally posted by jks
Now, given the FACTS that she doesn't play an instrument, doesn't write the majority of her material, needs studio help to make her voice sound good and lip synchs her concerts, what does that tell you? Another idiotic post from an idiotic poster shot down by me.

Hahaha. Did you read that link? "One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music."

One who composes, conducts, or PERFORMS. Especially instrumental music. The voice is an instrument. There are singers in great bands who have never picked up an instrument, so by your rationale, that makes them shit musicians doesn't it?

Originally posted by jks
Sorry, confirmed otherwise. You mean because I proved how you are wrong.

No, because regardless of how many examples and regardless of how much proof I show you THROUGH those examples, you are going to keep denying it despite being wrong.

Originally posted by jks
Yeah, I'm sure some kid who pickeed up a guitar for the first time this past monday wll be worse. Of course that isn't the point considering, for the 13th time, NO ONE SAID HE WAS THE SINGLE WORST PLAYER.

I've quoted you saying it.

Originally posted by jks
Actually, if oyu'd see the comments being made by more people who know more than you, you are humiliated.

Cute insults, very learned and mature. Lets move on:

Originally posted by jks
Word to the wise: Make sure you know about proper grammar and sentence structure before trying to attack someone else's and you won't embarrass yourself as much as you just did.

Embarass myself? You mean you don't see what I was pointing out? Haha.

Originally posted by jks
That's your fault for posting "You called King THE worst lead guitarist of all time." when it was never said. It's my fault for assuming you could read and responded to what I skimmed over and assumed you quoted what I actually said. Please read my post disecting slayer's ability, my 3rd post in this thread.

Why are you being a weasel? I accused you of calling King the worst of all time. You replied by saying "And he is." What's left to be said? You confirmed my accusation. As for dissecting Slayer's ability, is that what you call dissecting? All you did was say Araya's voice was crap, King was crap, Hanneman isn't much better and then praised the drummers. THAT'S dissecting? That's not dissecting. That's just calling them crap.

Originally posted by jks
Why do you continually ignore me saying that was never said?

Why do you keep dodging the fact that I said "You were calling King THE worst of all time." and dodging the fact that you replied with "AND HE IS.", why? I put it to you that you thought of him as the worst of all time, you confirmed it by agreeing with me.

Originally posted by jks
My fault for assuming all people are of a reasonable intellect.

Yes because you're really showing off oodles of genius by posting in caps, bold and telling people to learn to read, calling them f*cking morons and continually showing a general lack of cognitive abilities akin to that of a goldfish.

Originally posted by jks
No you didn't. You said that I said he was the worst. I explained above how I skimmed over what you said and assumed you quoted what I actually said.

Hahaha, oh this is too good. So you're going to sit there on this pedestal, calling me dumb, telling me I can't read and assuming that you're intelligent. Yet you openly admit that you didn't comprehend what I wrote, skimmed it, assumed I quoted what you said, despite reading it and agreeing with it anyway? Stop making excuses. I put a rationale to you and you agreed.

Originally posted by jks
Why, because you can't argue against it other than "liek, omg ur teh cowurd tekneek"

Nope, because it actually is stupid and cowardly. Why is it? Because not everything is subjective. That is just something cowards say who can't back their shit up.

Wanna show me a quote where I said "liek, omg ur teh cowurd tekneek"? Or was that a very childish, poor and ineffective attempt at poking fun? I thought you were smart?

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Thus the original opinions are...*drumroll* But they had no knowledge or reason to believe otherwise.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Every time I shoot down your posts with that, you always respond with the same thing. That's not very inelligent.

Every time I reply to you, you come back with the same old drab and childish insults, straying way off topic because you can't back up your opinions with evidence and/or proof. Like Victor is already proving, you're wrong. You have been wrong this whole time.

Originally posted by jks
I haven't heard any. Don't whine and try to hide, lets have some.

You're meaning to tell me that all those emo bands, metalcore bands etc, they have better guitarists than King?

Originally posted by jks
What part of you ****ed up the quote do YOU not understand? Go ahead, so I can point out exactly where you ****ed up what I said.

I didn't **** up the quote, did I? We've established that it was you who ****ed up by reading my clearly posted comment and agreeing to it.

Originally posted by jks
Again, no one said he would. There are undeniably people who are new at playing who would be worse.

And also people who are old at playing, who would be worse. So we agree.

Originally posted by jks
No it's not, because you don't have any knowledge on the subject. The only thing you know is by listening to it. You have no knowledge of theory, technique, scale, pitch, playing in key etc..

Now now, assumptions aren't good, they aren't smile.

Secondly, I'll use my prior example. The fact that you are a guitarist doesn't make your opinion concrete, infact. The fact that you make the claims you have, suggests that YOU don't know much about the guitar.

Originally posted by jks
Now, if we go back to my post talking about slayers ability, you'll notice I only said araya's voice was crap. Now, if we take a look at your statement of "Basically you were calling Slayer crap" to which I replied they are, it was because I was refering to their musicianship.

So yes, you called them crap, didn't you? That was what I accused you of and you denied it. You denied calling Slayer crap, but evidently, you did. You know you did, so that means you either have an extremely bad memory or you were lying.

Originally posted by jks
Araya is an avg bassist, king is a horrible lead player. When I said they were NOT crap it was in reference to me liking the songs.

Fair enough, but you denied calling them crap, didn't you? Answer: Yes. And we both know that you did call them crap now, don't we? Answer: Yes.

Originally posted by jks
I know, but you were the one that said my post was as invalid as him when he is also smarter than you.

That joke clearly went over your head, BackFire got it. I'm sorry my jokes are too smart for you.

Originally posted by jks
I can't say you remind me of anyone from anything because I've never come across someone so intellectually inept.

You've never come across anyone worse than King, but there are many wink. Like you said "Just because I haven't heard them doesn't mean they don't exist". I can't take the crown for being the most intellectually inept because there are so many people less smart than me, you just haven't met them smile.

Originally posted by jks
Ur teh wrong. Ur teh wrong. Ur teh wrong. Oh yeah, Ur teh wrong. I not no care what teh dikshunary says, I don't needs no book lurnin to no ur teh wrong. It not matter that i don't no nuffin bout how to play that thur geetar, Ur teh wrong. I not need to know reedin and writin *spits out a plug of tobacco* I just keep arguin' stuff that was proveded otherwise

Hahaha, southern accent too. THAT was the best thing you've ever posted. I enjoyed that, that was sweet.

Originally posted by jks
How about respond to the point than another of your conviniant sheilds trying to dodge it.

Are you the same guy who called me inept? Learn to spell for crying out loud. None of that made ANY kind of sense.

Originally posted by jks
Stop all this "I quoted you" crap when I already explained, in detail, how YOU are the one that ****ed the quotes up and/or were unable to comprehend what was written.

I never misread and misreplied to my own post. You did.

Originally posted by jks
No, I'm making fun of you because you aren't very knowledgeable on a subject, have proven it, and yet you are still trying to argue on that subject with blatant mistruths.

You can continue making blind assumptions because it's only making you look stupid. You are the one who keeps replying with blind insults, taking this way too seriously and not proving anything. Not me, you. In all of what I just replied to, maybe a quarter of it was about music. Because you obviously have to resort to petty tomfoolery in an attempt to impress internet people.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
But they had no knowledge or reason to believe otherwise.

That's the magic of opinions. Ya just make 'em.

jks
Bleh, I don't feel like going on and on with this guy. I've already made my points, and backed them up. If you want to continue arguing, please do so as like I said earlier, you are entertaining.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
But they had no knowledge or reason to believe otherwise.

They believed with confidence. Which is, by definition, part of an opinion.

What I believe with fact overrides what you believe with confidence. As a result, your opinion would be wrong.

Hopefully you can now see that you are wrong, have been wrong, and will finally cut this whole opinion debacle out of your replies.

-AC

Hornyman
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They believed with confidence. Which is, by definition, part of an opinion.

What I believe with fact overrides what you believe with confidence. As a result, your opinion would be wrong.

Hopefully you can now see that you are wrong, have been wrong, and will finally cut this whole opinion debacle out of your replies.

-AC

I believe, jks, that ACh as, what we call in ebonics, "Served" you.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Hornyman
I believe, jks, that ACh as, what we call in ebonics, "Served" you.

I believe that AC has, what we call in English, repeated what I just posted.

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They believed with confidence. Which is, by definition, part of an opinion.You got the PART of the definition right....

But me saying king is one of the worst lead players IS backed with fact, rather than what YOU believe. All I have to do is point to his limited technique, his lack of knowledge of scales and his playing out of key.

Perhaps if you hadn't misinterpreted it to begin with, it wouldn't have been draged out to this extent.

jks
Originally posted by Hornyman
I believe, jks, that ACh as, what we call in ebonics, "Served" you. Where?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
But me saying king is one of the worst lead players IS backed with fact, rather than what YOU believe. All I have to do is point to his limited technique, his lack of knowledge of scales and his playing out of key.

Perhaps if you hadn't misinterpreted it to begin with, it wouldn't have been draged out to this extent.

A) You started claiming that Slayer, of all bands, have shit musicianship. That Kerry King is (or is one of, whatever we're going with) the worst guitarists of ALL TIME. How are you seriously sitting there and claiming that this is backed by fact? Considering you're criminally wrong?

B) I'm not the one who started filling the thread with blind insults and ineptitude. You are. Blame yourself. Most of your posts were you calling me an idiot for saying opinion can be wrong.

Tell me, how does it feel to know that for a fact, you were wrong? Does it taste cheap and metallic, Clarice? Like sucking on a rusty, copper coin?

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) You started claiming that Slayer, of all bands, have shit musicianship.They do. Tom araya is average at best, and king is a bad lead player. Because, as has been stated numerous times, I actually know what I am talking about on the subject because I play the instrument., which means I have a far greater knowledge of what makes someone good or not. I then proceeded to tell you in what areas king lacks discipline

You did fill the thread with ineptitude, mental ineptitude. You're arguing semantics now. An opinion, by definition, can't be wrong. The example given earlier doesn't apply because, by definition, saying the world was flat back then was fact due to their limited knowledge.

You tell me. I have done nothing but back up what I said with my superior knowledge on the subject and facts. Tell me, how does it feel knowing you have gone on and on being schooled on a subject you know nothing about?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
They do. Tom araya is average at best, and king is a bad lead player. Because, as has been stated numerous times, I actually know what I am talking about on the subject because I play the instrument., which means I have a far greater knowledge of what makes someone good or not. I then proceeded to tell you in what areas king lacks discipline

And I proceed to tell you that your opinion of him being one of the worst lead players ever, is wrong. Now that we've established that an opinion can be wrong, yours IS wrong. Why? Because you believe with confidence that King is one of the worst ever. Factually, he isn't. Because worst ever would mean dreadful, horrific technique and inability to play the instrument, right? Right. Kerry King does not have any kind of inability to play guitar. So realistically if it became about all of the guitarists of ALL time, playing against each other. Would King be in the top half of the table, or the bottom? Yes the top. Factually proving that you are wrong.

Originally posted by jks
You did fill the thread with ineptitude, mental ineptitude. You're arguing semantics now. An opinion, by definition, can't be wrong. The example given earlier doesn't apply because, by definition, saying the world was flat back then was fact due to their limited knowledge.

If I believe the world was flat, and believe it with confidence, that's my opinion. You can prove me wrong, therefore my opinion is wrong. You believe Kerry King is one of the worst ever, not by fact, but by confidence. How do I know it's by confidence? Because you said yourself that there could very well be worse, you just haven't heard them. So you're pretty confident that there are none worse. Just like people were confident that the Earth was flat based on the fact that they didn't have enough knowledge. You don't have enough knowledge to say King is one of the worst ever, because I can prove that there are worse. Just like you can prove the Earth isn't flat.

J...JKS?.....Where'd you go? Wh-what are you doing on the floor?

Originally posted by jks
You tell me. I have done nothing but back up what I said with my superior knowledge on the subject and facts. Tell me, how does it feel knowing you have gone on and on being schooled on a subject you know nothing about?

Read the above post then bring me a shiny apple in the morning.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
The example given earlier doesn't apply because, by definition, saying the world was flat back then was fact due to their limited knowledge.



It wasn't fact though, it was an opinion. How was it fact? It was a belief later proven to be fallacious.

Alpha Centauri
The world wasn't flat because they believed it to be, was it? It's always been spherical, even when they thought it wasn't.

Such a fool.

-AC

RagnaViper
*sigh*

First of all, who gives a care about Tom Araya? He's the bassist. Oh, and vocals too but those aren't worth much mention either in this case. I'll agree with you on Kerry King though. The guy's an average guitarist. Not bad per se, but nothing special either. In fact, most would find it interesting to know that he had very little to do with Reign in Blood, which explains why it's their best record. :P

Slayer's only worth something because of Dave. Cause you know, Dave's probably one of the best metal drummers around. The rest of the band I could care less about.

Oh, and rusty kettles are nice to stroke. wink

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And I proceed to tell you that your opinion of him being one of the worst lead players ever, is wrong.And I proceeded to tell you it's not and then told you why based on FACTS. Ok, FACTS. King plays his leads out of key. Do you even know what playing in key means? Good guitarists are able to do this. King has limited knowledge of scales. DO you know what scales are? King repeatedly plays random notes from various scales with no definition. Good guitarists are able to transition from and have knowledge of multiple scales. You do know I'm only talking about his lead playing, right? You do know I have said nothing about his rythem playing right You wouldn't call someone with an inability to play it a guitarist, either.Bottom, of course. Sorry, I just used FACTS about his ability to prove you wrong, lol.



But it's been proven otherwise. And therefore is NOT an opinion, by definition. No, by fact. Read above. That still wouldn't mean he isn't among the worst. No, like I said, I'm sure there are n00bies out there who are worse, but it's easily stated that no one made a bigger name for himself with less talent. Difference being thy had no reason to believe otherwise. We have plenty of reason to believe there are worse guitarists than king. You can't prove it, you can say it with confidence wink



Read this post and learn it and I'll let you out of detention.

jks
Originally posted by RagnaViper
*sigh*

First of all, who gives a care about Tom Araya? He's the bassist. Oh, and vocals too but those aren't worth much mention either in this case. I'll agree with you on Kerry King though. The guy's an average guitarist. Not bad per se, but nothing special either. In fact, most would find it interesting to know that he had very little to do with Reign in Blood, which explains why it's their best record. :PAll of slayer's best songs were written by jeff.

Dave is rediculous. It was amusing to hear him completely smoke lars playing battery when lars was sick a year or so ago.

Victor Von Doom
It doesn't matter if it's been proven otherwise. You are using circular logic. Facts and opinions aren't diametrically opposed.

You can have an opinion which follows the dictionary definition of one (as you would hope) which is factually wrong.

When an opinion is proved wrong, it doesn't stop being an opinion. It becomes an opinion which was wrong.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It wasn't fact though, it was an opinion. How was it fact? It was a belief later proven to be fallacious. It was a fact to them because of their limited knowledge. You couldn't say the opinion was wrong until it was proven otherwise.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It doesn't matter if it's been proven otherwise. You are using circular logic. Facts and opinions aren't diametrically opposed.

You can have an opinion which follows the dictionary definition of one (as you would hope) which is factually wrong.

When an opinion is proved wrong, it doesn't stop being an opinion. It becomes an opinion which WAS wrong. Was, not IS

Victor Von Doom
So at the time it was held, it was wrong.

All follows nicely.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
So at the time it was held, it was wrong.

All follows nicely. Not based on their knowledge.

Lana
*raises hand*

I would like to interject with the fact that I have perfect pitch and as a result can always tell when people play/sing off-key...and I can say with confidence that King does NOT play all his leads off-key, as you claim he does.

I also would like to put in that anyone who makes music is a musician. Just as anyone who makes art is an artist, and anyone who writes is a writer/author.

I, for the record, am all three (though I haven't really done anything musical for years).

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
It was a fact to them because of their limited knowledge. You couldn't say the opinion was wrong until it was proven otherwise.

So if I say God exists, it's a fact to me? What with the limited knowledge of his existence and all.

Or is it my opinion, IE a belief held with confidence but with no proof.

jks
Originally posted by Lana
*raises hand*

I would like to interject with the fact that I have perfect pitch and as a result can always tell when people play off-key...and I can say with confidence that King does NOT play all his leads off-key, as you claim he does.You're right, his solo in the song seasons of the abyss for example, but it is a fact that a majority of his solos are out of key.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
Not based on their knowledge.

It doesn't matter about their knowledge. That's their subjective learning. Fact is empirical.

jks
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
So if I say God exists, it's a fact to me? What with the limited knowledge of his existence and all.To you, yes it would be, but that also goes into the whole faith thing.

That's the problem with religious topics, some people are unable to differentiate between fact and opinion and use the whole faith thing as a scapegoat.

RagnaViper
Originally posted by jks
All of slayer's best songs were written by jeff.

Dave is rediculous. It was amusing to hear him completely smoke lars playing battery when lars was sick a year or so ago.

True, Jeff is easily the better musician.

With me though, Dave is the only reason I can tolerate Slayer's music. Oh, and Lars is really nothing special. He's good, but (unlike Dave Mustaine) he's an a-hole first and a musician second.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
And I proceeded to tell you it's not and then told you why based on FACTS. Ok, FACTS. King plays his leads out of key. Do you even know what playing in key means? Good guitarists are able to do this. King has limited knowledge of scales. DO you know what scales are? King repeatedly plays random notes from various scales with no definition. Good guitarists are able to transition from and have knowledge of multiple scales. You do know I'm only talking about his lead playing, right? You do know I have said nothing about his rythem playing right You wouldn't call someone with an inability to play it a guitarist, either.Bottom, of course. Sorry, I just used FACTS about his ability to prove you wrong, lol.

You didn't use facts about his ability, did you? You used opinion and in almost one paragraph you've done a complete and utter 180 degree spin from what you originally said.

Kerry King wouldn't come on the bottom half would he? Considering all the guitarists ever. To add to that, EVEN IF he did, he most CERTAINLY would never ever be in the league of being one of (yes, one OF) the worst lead guitarists of all time. You're drastically underrating and underecognising him.

Originally posted by jks
But it's been proven otherwise.

So my opinion was wrong, wasn't it? Yes. So that means an opinion can be wrong.

Originally posted by jks
And therefore is NOT an opinion, by definition.

It WAS an opinion. It's not anymore because it's been proven wrong. Proving? That opinions can be proven wrong.

Originally posted by jks
No, by fact. Read above.

No, by confidence.

Originally posted by jks
That still wouldn't mean he isn't among the worst.

If you believe in confidence, which you do, that he's among the worst, it's because you are basing it on what you know. Not fact. What means he isn't among the worst is the fact that he doesn't have the lack of quality that you would find in one of the worst guitarists ever.

Originally posted by jks
No, like I said, I'm sure there are n00bies out there who are worse, but it's easily stated that no one made a bigger name for himself with less talent.

Hahahaha. I said "So you're pretty confident that there are none worse." And you say "No, like I said, I'm sure...". What do you think being "sure" is? Being confident, you cretin.

Originally posted by jks
Difference being thy had no reason to believe otherwise. We have plenty of reason to believe there are worse guitarists than king.

You're proving my point. They were given reason to believe otherwise, weren't they? This proving their opinion wrong. Like I am to you.

Originally posted by jks
You can't prove it, you can say it with confidence wink

No, I can prove that when compared with King's technique, there are worse guitarists.

Originally posted by jks
Read this post and learn it and I'll let you out of detention.

Hahaha, coz that's like what I said.

You're done.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
To you, yes it would be, but that also goes into the whole faith thing.

That's the problem with religious topics, some people are unable to differentiate between fact and opinion and use the whole faith thing as a scapegoat.

Yes, and faith is by definition opposed to fact. It's about trust and reliance.

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You didn't use facts about his ability, did you?Yes. No. Please do yourself a favor and read up on guitar theory. Then, and only then, will you have anything credible to add. What I originally said: "king is about THE single worst lead player of all time" Notice I said NOTHING of his rythem ability in what I originally said.

I'm dropping the whole opinion thing because you just aren't grasping such a simple concept and getting back to the topic of musicianship and ability

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Yes.

No you didn't. You named techniques and terms and your opinion of them.

Originally posted by jks
No. Please do yourself a favor and read up on guitar theory. Then, and only then, will you have anything credible to add.

How about proving me wrong, for a change?

Originally posted by jks
What I originally said: "king is about THE single worst lead player of all time" Notice I said NOTHING of his rythem ability in what I originally said.

He's not one of the worst ever, though. Factually.

Originally posted by jks
I'm dropping the whole opinion thing and getting back to the topic of musicianship and ability

Whooped.

E b b.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How about proving me wrong, for a change?Read above



Wrong, and reasons have been given to support this based on his actual ability. I mean it's kind of embarrassing, isn't it, that while I can say he is among the worst and cite his actual ability as evidence that you can only say "no he's not, FACT".



Yup, how does THAT taste, lol.

jks
Originally posted by jks
Read above



Wrong, and reasons have been given to support this based on his actual ability. I mean it's kind of embarrassing, isn't it, that while I can say he is among the worst and cite his actual ability as evidence that you can only say "no he's not, FACT".



Yup, how does THAT taste, lol.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Read above

Hahaha, I just did.

So how about proving me wrong for a change?

Originally posted by jks
Wrong, and reasons have been given to support this based on his actual ability. I mean it's kind of embarrassing, isn't it, that while I can say he is among the worst and cite his actual ability as evidence that you can only say "no he's not, FACT

Yeah, your opinion of his ability. Your wrong opinion.

Your opinion is wrong, like the people who believed the Earth was flat, were wrong. Sure they believed it strong, but that didn't stop the FACT that the Earth is a sphere. You believe what you believe strong, you're wrong though. You're belief strength doesn't change that.

Originally posted by jks
Yup, how does THAT taste, lol.

I dunno, you were the one who got smacked. You were the one spending time claiming how an opinion can't be wrong only to be trampled.

How does it taste? Either way, lets save the embarassment of you and keep to actual musicianship shall we?

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha, I just did.

So how about proving me wrong for a change?Read above.



So tell me this, how is it that me, the one with far more knowledge on what scales, key and guitar theory are and have a better idea of king's ability than you am wrong. This should be good.



Lol, the posts say otherwise. No, an opinion CAN'T be wrong. And opinion COULD have been wrong at a time.

Either way, you are the one arguing that king isn't a bad lead player when you have no knowledge on the subject.

Sure, so you can embarrass yourself further.

I just don't get it. I don't know anything about brain surgury other than what I see or hear on tv or whatever. I don't know anything about the techniques or skills involved, so I naturally wouldn't get into a discussion about who is a good brain surgeon, so why are you trying to argue who is a good guitarist when you don't know anyhting that goes into making someone a good guitarist?

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks

No, an opinion CAN'T be wrong. And opinion COULD have been wrong at a time.


Come on. Surely you can't post that in good faith.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Read above.

Yes, I did. Prove me wrong, don't just retort with "You don't have anything credible to add" considering a bulk of what you've been posting is wrong.

Originally posted by jks
So tell me this, how is it that me, the one with far more knowledge on what scales, key and guitar theory are and have a better idea of king's ability than you am wrong. This should be good.

Your opinion is that he is one of (that means all inclusive) the worst guitarists of ALL TIME. How can you be RIGHT? You cannot honestly believe that someone with the overall ability of King is one of the worst guitarists ever. He's not.

Originally posted by jks
Lol, the posts say otherwise. No, an opinion CAN'T be wrong. And opinion COULD have been wrong at a time.

You're actually beyond stupid. It's been factually proven with concrete evidence that an opinion can be wrong. Deal with it. I hate people like you who despite being factually, blatantly proven wrong, don't know when to admit it.

Originally posted by jks
Either way, you are the one arguing that king isn't a bad lead player when you have no knowledge on the subject.

You are the one arguing that he's one of the worst of all time, out of all the millions who have existed. What does that say for your knowledge? Nothing.

Originally posted by jks
Sure, so you can embarrass yourself further.

I just don't get it. I don't know anything about brain surgury other than what I see or hear on tv or whatever. I don't know anything about the techniques or skills involved, so I naturally wouldn't get into a discussion about who is a good brain surgeon, so why are you trying to argue who is a good guitarist when you don't know anyhting that goes into making someone a good guitarist?

Why are you assuming that I don't know what goes into making a good guitarist? Why are you assuming that?

You are sitting there claiming that King is one of the factual worst guitarists of all time, when he isn't. You have only used opinion to show why you believe that. Opinion that is wrong. And I've shown you WHY your opinion is wrong.

-AC

jks
The definition of opinion means it can't be proven.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by jks
The definition of opinion means it can't be proven.

That's not right though.

Medical opinion is constantly confirmed later by factual evidence, the same with scientific ideas. While they were empirically facts at the time, they were held as opinions by the holders due to their not having access to the evidence.

Alpha Centauri
Opinion is a belief upheld with confidence.

So let's go back to the Earth example. Their opinion was that it was flat, they had no proof, but they believed it with confidence.

Someone came along with fact - which lest we forget, overrides confidence - and proved their opinion wrong.

Their opinion wasn't fact, until the evidence was produced. Because even when they believed the Earth was flat, it wasn't was it? The Earth has always been round. You can't say, with any truth, "It was fact to them." Because fact means undeniably true, able to be proven true. You can't prove the Earth is flat.

-AC

jks
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
ur teh wrongorz!!11!!

-AC Ok, you're just dumb. I don't know how else to say it. I sit there and tell you what he can and more importantly can't do based on his ability, and yet you continually come back with "ur teh wrong. It's teh fact" over and over.......and over and over. What he can and can't do is FACT. What part of that do you not comprehend? I mean when I say he plays out of key, how is that opinion when we have PROOF that he does? Even if it were an opinion, how would it be wrong when we have PROOF. Have you ever listened to the solos on reign in blood that are kerry's?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by jks
Ok, you're just dumb. I don't know how else to say it. I sit there and tell you what he can and more importantly can't do based on his ability, and yet you continually come back with "ur teh wrong. It's teh fact" over and over.......and over and over.

Aww, he's upset.

I'm dumb? You've spent most of your posts insulting me in childish ways, holding onto an arguement that's wrong and continually putting opinion across as fact.

And YOU continually think that what you're telling me is total fact. You're telling me what he can do based upon what we've all heard. You believe based on what you've heard that he's one of the worst of all time and by the sheer scope of that claim. He isn't.

If you had a list of all the best, ranked on technical ability, he wouldn't be low. Or even if he was, it would be because of the amount of better guitarists. Not because he's crap.

Originally posted by jks
What he can and can't do is FACT.

YES! Exactly. What he can and can't do IS fact. Hence why him not being one of the worst is fact. Because his ability isn't as bad as you're claiming.

Originally posted by jks
What part of that do you not comprehend? I mean when I say he plays out of key, how is that opinion when we have PROOF that he does? Even if it were an opinion, how would it be wrong when we have PROOF. Have you ever listened to the solos on reign in blood that are kerry's?

Yes I have. How does any of this make him one of the worst guitarists ever, as opposed to one you just don't like?

-AC

jks
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/jostopholees/icon10.gif

Alpha Centauri
Don't do that, you'll hurt yourself.

And I care about you.

-AC

BackFire
Originally posted by jks
The definition of opinion means it can't be proven.


You're definition is fallacious.

There are plenty of opinions that can be proven and factually disproven.

Pezmerga
Nope! Opinions Cannot be wrong. See you all are misinterpting what opinions and facts Acually are.

Fact : Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

Opinon : A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

So whats that mean? Facts can be wrong...but opions cannot. Because Opinions have no backing! They are individual beliefs. So therefore since everyone is different they are never wrong, but can be DIFFERENT.

ok here some examples of Facts that are wrong.
"The world is flat" "all dogs are hairless"
ok the first one is a little tricky...cuz shapes are a little tricky and can be subjective...but it has no words that suggest that its what the person thinks...now if i said "the world LOOKS flat" that would be an opinion, wouldnt be wrong cuz you cant see the world through my eyes =)

and the second one is easy,,, its a fact that is wrong. how can it be disproven? Go to a pet shop =P. why isnt it an opinion? Cuz obviously its not something that is subjective! No one is gonna argue that is being serious that a dog cant have fur if u walk ur dog with fur up to them!

ok here are some opinions that CAN NEVER be proven wrong...you can disagree, think something different, or hell Agree and say you are wrong...but yoyu arent. It's an opinion!
"I think Rap sucks" you can back it up with whatever you want to why you think differently, but you will never be able to say that statement is wrong. you dont hear the music through their ears!
ok here is a silly one...I think all dogs look like Marlon Brando! ...Cant prove it wrong....while we might not all think the same way, we cant....Liek i said before..see through THEIR eyes! To them , they might see Marlon Brando in every dog! Maybe it reminds them of a role he played? or something that they associated dogs with that particular actor! who knows....dont make them wrong...just means they think differently!

So therefore....OPINIONS and FACTS are two different things....and are confused ALOT. Its easy to misclassify a statement that is an opinion as a fact and say its wrong....and vice versa.
Thanks.... and THIS IS A TRUE FACT! =P hehe

and just for fun a fact that isnt true... "I own 10000 staplers!" =P
and an opinion that cant be wrong..."Queen is the "best" rock band to come out of England!" Best is an opinonated word! =P

and as for the list....Doors should be much much higher! and slayer is fine where its at,...and did i hear someone say Slipknot should be on there? dont think so...just my OPINION though =) but im guessing they took alot of peoples opinions on this...and thats what you should remember....this list wont reflect everyones opinion! like whatever bands you like! they are the best and you arent wrong!! but people can disagree! =P such is Diversity!

BTW Jks it is an opinion that he doesnt use good techniques as a lead guitarist....maybe other people hear stuff that you dont? /shrug....maybe some people think u dont need to use them techniques.... Im not disagreeing with you though, i havent heard much slayer. im just pointing out you are both arguing about nothing cuz you both have different opinions on the matter =) .......you can argue all day, but dont start saying well i have facts that state something is bad etc....that only works in business =P. like "You will lose money if you invest!!!" and even then ....the idea that losing money is bad ...is still an opinion! =)

bardock
gn'r should have been number 1

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Pezmerga
Nope! Opinions Cannot be wrong. See you all are misinterpting what opinions and facts Acually are.

Fact : Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

Opinon : A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

So whats that mean? Facts can be wrong...but opions cannot. Because Opinions have no backing! They are individual beliefs. So therefore since everyone is different they are never wrong, but can be DIFFERENT.

ok here some examples of Facts that are wrong.
"The world is flat" "all dogs are hairless"
ok the first one is a little tricky...cuz shapes are a little tricky and can be subjective...but it has no words that suggest that its what the person thinks...now if i said "the world LOOKS flat" that would be an opinion, wouldnt be wrong cuz you cant see the world through my eyes =)

and the second one is easy,,, its a fact that is wrong. how can it be disproven? Go to a pet shop =P. why isnt it an opinion? Cuz obviously its not something that is subjective! No one is gonna argue that is being serious that a dog cant have fur if u walk ur dog with fur up to them!

ok here are some opinions that CAN NEVER be proven wrong...you can disagree, think something different, or hell Agree and say you are wrong...but yoyu arent. It's an opinion!
"I think Rap sucks" you can back it up with whatever you want to why you think differently, but you will never be able to say that statement is wrong. you dont hear the music through their ears!
ok here is a silly one...I think all dogs look like Marlon Brando! ...Cant prove it wrong....while we might not all think the same way, we cant....Liek i said before..see through THEIR eyes! To them , they might see Marlon Brando in every dog! Maybe it reminds them of a role he played? or something that they associated dogs with that particular actor! who knows....dont make them wrong...just means they think differently!

So therefore....OPINIONS and FACTS are two different things....and are confused ALOT. Its easy to misclassify a statement that is an opinion as a fact and say its wrong....and vice versa.
Thanks.... and THIS IS A TRUE FACT! =P hehe

and just for fun a fact that isnt true... "I own 10000 staplers!" =P
and an opinion that cant be wrong..."Queen is the "best" rock band to come out of England!" Best is an opinonated word! =P

and as for the list....Doors should be much much higher! and slayer is fine where its at,...and did i hear someone say Slipknot should be on there? dont think so...just my OPINION though =) but im guessing they took alot of peoples opinions on this...and thats what you should remember....this list wont reflect everyones opinion! like whatever bands you like! they are the best and you arent wrong!! but people can disagree! =P such is Diversity!

BTW Jks it is an opinion that he doesnt use good techniques as a lead guitarist....maybe other people hear stuff that you dont? /shrug....maybe some people think u dont need to use them techniques.... Im not disagreeing with you though, i havent heard much slayer. im just pointing out you are both arguing about nothing cuz you both have different opinions on the matter =) .......you can argue all day, but dont start saying well i have facts that state something is bad etc....that only works in business =P. like "You will lose money if you invest!!!" and even then ....the idea that losing money is bad ...is still an opinion! =)

All of this and you're still wrong. Three people have already proved that opinion can be proven wrong with examples. Opinions can very often be proven wrong and you're hiding behind that whole "It's subjective" thing. Opinions are beliefs upheld with CONFIDENCE but no EVIDENCE. So if I provide evidence that proves you and your confidence wrong, your opinion is wrong.

What is it that you don't seem to understand about that?

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Pezmerga
Nope! Opinions Cannot be wrong. See you all are misinterpting what opinions and facts Acually are.

Fact : Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

Opinon : A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

So whats that mean? Facts can be wrong...but opions cannot. Because Opinions have no backing! They are individual beliefs. So therefore since everyone is different they are never wrong, but can be DIFFERENT.

ok here some examples of Facts that are wrong.
"The world is flat" "all dogs are hairless"
ok the first one is a little tricky...cuz shapes are a little tricky and can be subjective...but it has no words that suggest that its what the person thinks...now if i said "the world LOOKS flat" that would be an opinion, wouldnt be wrong cuz you cant see the world through my eyes =)



You are partially right. Opinions based upon things that can't be substantiated cannot be proven wrong.

As an opinion is someone's personal belief, they can personally believe in something that can be disproven. Those opinions(and that is what they are) can be proved wrong. It really is quite simple.

RagnaViper
Originally posted by bardock
gn'r should have been number 1

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/lol.gif

Pezmerga
Alpha you are wrong buddy, no real opinion can be wrong. People can change their minds, but still.

I saw someone say "i believe in God" as an opinion...Thats not an opinion its a Fact. its not how they feel about God or percieve God, its A Fact about themselves and their personal beliefs!

and you say its a fact you can point out WORSE Guitarists....thats not a fact, its an opinion. you could say your uncle bob is worse, but what if i really love your uncle bob's playing? see...just different OPINIONS.
I dont care that much, im not gonna Quote the FACTS you disproved , thinking they were opinions....cuz its really pointless. FACT is...people on Messageboards will argue no MATTER what , why? Because sometimes it can be entertaining (Opinion)!

and the whole "the world is flat" is a FACT FACT FACT...Just a Disproven FACT!!! =)

Actually i tell you what, come up with an OPINION, not a Fact...that you can prove wrong, and I will say you all are completely right!

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Pezmerga
Alpha you are wrong buddy, no real opinion can be wrong. People can change their minds, but still.

I saw someone say "i believe in God" as an opinion...Thats not an opinion its a Fact. its not how they feel about God, its a statement about something based on information!

and you say its a fact you can point out WORSE Guitarists....thats not a fact, its an opinion. you could say your uncle bob is worse, but what if i really love your uncle bob's playing? see...just different OPINIONS.
I dont care that much, im not gonna Quote the FACTS you disproved , thinking they were opinions....cuz its really pointless. FACT is...people on Messageboards will argue no MATTER what , why? Because sometimes it can be entertaining (Opinion)!

and the whole "the world is flat" is a FACT FACT FACT...Just a Disproven FACT!!! =)

Actually i tell you what, come up with an OPINION, not a Fact...that you can prove wrong, and I will say you all are completely right!

Seriously now, what is it that you people do not understand?

The ONLY opinion that cannot be proven wrong is one that is based upon something that cannot be substantiated.

If my opinion is that a guitarist is better, I can prove it because technique is measurable and therefore provable.

If someone's opinion is that the Earth is flat, they believe that with confidence. I can prove them wrong. So their opinion is wrong. It's not a fact that the Earth is flat is it you cretin? It's not flat. If it's a fact, it can't be proven wrong. If it's been disproven, it's been proven wrong. So it's an opinion isn't it? Jesus.

Please learn this.

-AC

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