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this one's for you brainchild....






...and a few other requests to boot....





let's begin....

1

2

3

4 after getting tossed, venom hears the scream of a woman near by, he takes off with wolverine in persuit.

5 while the two are destroying hordes of big cats and the sort wolverine gets distracted by the woman as she runs away allowing venom to capitalize on the moment...

6. capitalize bigtime

.

7. wolverine struggles as he breaks lose,

8. wolvie tracks venom down.....this is where the real fight begins...

9

10

11

they both end up KOed....

having a healing factor, wolverine wakes up first.

wolverine makes it clear that he doesn't want to owe venom anything....

okay now this came from an OLLLLLLD ass comic i used to own...trouble is, I have no idea what issue or title his happened in....I can't remember if this was a marvel comics presensts or what.... this page is the only page that I could salvage as my evil cousin colored over the rest with marker...


ths comic to my recollection went down like this: wolvie and jubilee are in south america, (I think they're investigating something but I can't remember what)....wolverine ends up sniffing out a familiar scent which just turns out to be venom...they recognize eachother from their previous battle above and of course start throwing down (don't remember why) wolverine stabs venom, and starts to gain the upper hand until somebody comes in and kidnaps jubilee (may have been sabretooth, don't remember that either). Wolverine gets very distracted and venom capitalizes by chucking him off a cliff...then venom scampers off to nurse his wounds while wolverine wakes up below and sets off anew to find jubilee....

if anyone knows what issue and title this occured in I would be MOST APPRECIATIVE if you could tell me.

the latest fight was featured in venom number 8 I believe....the story...

a piece of the venom symbiote was detatched from venom while he was buisy fighting spidey and the fantastic four, the small piece of tongue doesn't die however, instead it grows and becomes more and more self aware, it takes on brocks attitude while retaining the same conciosuness of the original symbiote, however, he no longer needs to BOND with a host, instead he uses the hosts as food sources and is constantly eating people throughout the book...he also develops a higher durability to his previous weaknesses and gorws in overall physical strength..... a company that had captured the tongue and tried to use the venom symbiote for their own personal goals has sent in assassins to track him down and get control of him, wolverine happens to be there and he tackles the assassins, venom isn't far behind however and eventually.....

here we go again.

3

4

5

6 this scan doesn't to the splash page justice..BY FAR one of the best I've ever seen IMO.

7

8. note: venom is completely encasing wolvie in symbiote....

9. note: it didn't work.

also note: look at wolverine when he's behind venom and on his shoulders...he clearly gets a kill shot to the head....if venom had been bonded to a host like say eddie brock this fight would have been over here and now....

10

11....and thus endeth the fight.

NOW...ONTO THE MISCONCEPTIONS...

it is assumed that wolverine doesn't use his fighting ability...to this I say NAY! TIS NOT SO...he's clearly demonstrated his fighting ability, cap has commented on it, so has iron fist, so has viper, so has ogun, so has (insert various names here) etc etc....

look....

and what kind of fighting ability is it you ask? well there are lots of styles he knows, his training has been composed of various types but don't just take my word for it...

how does it stack up to some of marvel's best? well let's ask shang chi, marvel's hands down best earth bound martial artist.....

..

....Shang-Chi: "His savagery has not bred undiscipline. For a Westerner, his focus and control rivals that of a samurai! Rarely have I seen the like!"
(X-Men, Vol. 1, issue 62 - March 1997)...

another wolverine misconception is that he lacks the durability to take a shot from collosus...not one? well let's look at his track record shall we?

nope he didn't go down there....maybe this next one then?...

damn that little mutie bastard just won't go down...............maybe.....this................time?

hm, guess not...oh well.....


okay how about wolverine's being at peak human levels? like strength....

well I'm sure that ANY human can do this.....

well that must obviously be PIS CIS like wolverine's jumping... no matter how many times he displays the ability...

...

"but jinzin he can't do that..he's clearly human"


...well maybe it's because...

hmmm inhuman? can it be?






YES...........as clearly displayed here.

"but statistics say"

statistics can be wrong, spidey's webbing being weak, dock ocks tenticals being slow, shang chi's fighting ability being less than 7, sabretooth being peak human.....

this could apply to wolvie as well...

...him being human is about as much a misconception as say him never applying his strategic awareness, or tactical knowledge.

especially when he's in a berserker rage....

But clearly it's bad writing, and it's not logical, even though you prooved me wrong. It's all just PIS

And they say the rest of us fanboys rant... (Batman=God *batman*)

Not even gonna argue, just wanted to know how Wolverine's balls taste on THIS thread... I mean I know how all the others were, but this just seems subtley different for some reason. I must not be a connoisseur. Oh well.

Originally posted by Dizzle
And they say the rest of us fanboys rant... (Batman=God *batman*)

Not even gonna argue, just wanted to know how Wolverine's balls taste on THIS thread... I mean I know how all the others were, but this just seems subtley different for some reason. I must not be a connoisseur. Oh well.


*** you..that was so uncalled for this was at other people's requests so just **** off..

how come on these forums, even when evidence is presented, the people still argue, and when they do you can still show them the evidence, but they dont care, or dont wanna listen. either that or they just flame you, like it makes them right or something

That's just how we do it.

We're mostly all assholes to a degree.

So, shut your pie hole!

wasnt even talking about you, but theres one.

I was joking.

well them im sorry, but that same guy just totally passed up my evidence in the namor vs starfire thread too, when i posted two links, one of them twice!

Originally posted by jinzin
*** you..that was so uncalled for this was at other people's requests so just **** off..

Haha, it definitely was. I was going for more dry sarcasm, and meant more to say "I really... really don't see the point in trying so hard to really prove that Wolverine can beat someone when you KNOW that there's always gonna be a counter opinion, backed up with evidence of its own." than "Yer all gay fanboys", though in rereading, I kinda see the latter showed through a tad more.

Admittedly, I was trying to piss people off a bit, but that definitely crossed a line. Sincerest apologies my good man. Musta been hallucinating. Or just tired...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Haha, it definitely was. I was going for more dry sarcasm, and meant more to say "I really... really don't see the point in trying so hard to really prove that Wolverine can beat someone when you KNOW that there's always gonna be a counter opinion, backed up with evidence of its own." than "Yer all gay fanboys", though in rereading, I kinda see the latter showed through a tad more.

Admittedly, I was trying to piss people off a bit, but that definitely crossed a line. Sincerest apologies my good man. Musta been hallucinating. Or just tired...

apology accepted thank you for owning up to that....



in my defense I wasn't trying to say wolverine can beat XXX all I was doing was fullfilling the requests of other board members...

I remember that request. I forgot who asked, though.

brainchild...it says who on the front page.

all i can say is props to jinzin for this thread

and

keeping up with all the bullshit this board dishes on the daily...

yeah keep sonnin them man you got my respect

*waits for someone to disregard everything posted here and call it PIS/CIS/bad writing/fanboyism what-the-fucc-ever.... its sad *

It's all PIS/CIS/bad writing/fanboyism.

lol

*call me pointstradamus*

lol...thanks pointinel I appreciate it man.

At the risk of being called a "nutswinger" I agree this is a damn fine thread.

But, in examples given where Wolvie is swinging those two ninjas, and the one where he dodges all the gun fire. I would say those examples are actually things that "peak humans" are capable of. I'd cite Punisher and Batman as my prime examples. I think most people underestimate what "peak human" is because they assume that that term somehow makes it all real and not a comic anymore.

*waits for thread supporters and myself to be called nutswingers*

Nutswingers.

Come on. You had to see that coming.

Originally posted by dawsey28
Nutswingers.

Come on. You had to see that coming.

Nutswingers and coming in the same post?

lol

Originally posted by dawsey28
lol

That smiley is strangley unsettling.

oooh boy...

only prob with a thread like this is that for all these great things you've shown, i or someone else could show scenes that would call int question the . . . consistent veracity of these accomplishments.

which is more out of charater - thing 'bonking' wolvie and ko'ing him, guardian, in an alpha flight battle whooping wolvie and ko'ing him, his recent beating by the wrecker, or wolvie shrugging off colossus's punches? anybody can show a bunch of scans showing the great moments a character has. but then does that make all his POOR showings CIS/PIS? why are the poor showings CIS but not the great ones? it's all about the most consistent version of the character. it's why i hate examples that show extremes of 'good' showing s or 'bad' showings.

But this is similar to saying Batman can take punches from Superman and Wonderwoman and Darkseid, knocking out Metron, pretty much singly handedly defeating the X Men in a few panels, and killing Spawn. Not to mention pretty much every other hero and villain ever created, in or outside of his own universe.

However-- You showed some scans of people MENTIONING his fighting ability, other martial artists show their ability in every fight. Most I usually see Wolverine do in combat, is simply charge forward and cut whatever it is in his way without regard. I'm sure ninjas would be impressed with my fighting style too if I could punch through trees and chop through anything and shrug off blows from Gladiator.... regardless if I could actually fight or not.

^FUNNY DUDE.

Originally posted by leonidas
only prob with a thread like this is that for all these great things you've shown, i or someone else could show scenes that would call int question the . . . consistent veracity of these accomplishments.

which is more out of charater - thing 'bonking' wolvie and ko'ing him, guardian, in an alpha flight battle whooping wolvie and ko'ing him, his recent beating by the wrecker, or wolvie shrugging off colossus's punches? anybody can show a bunch of scans showing the great moments a character has. but then does that make all his POOR showings CIS/PIS? why are the poor showings CIS but not the great ones? it's all about the most consistent version of the character. it's why i hate examples that show extremes of 'good' showing s or 'bad' showings. These are things he does all the time. in his own comic. These are quite consistant.

Usually when it takes awhile to heal there isa circumstance. Shingen had saturated Logan's body with poison at the time which inhibited the effeciency of his Healing Factor.

You can find plenty of poor showings for any character.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
That smiley is strangley unsettling. droolio

THAT smilie is even worse when talking about...

Originally posted by Dizzle
And they say the rest of us fanboys rant... (Batman=God *batman*)

Not even gonna argue, just wanted to know how Wolverine's balls taste on THIS thread... I mean I know how all the others were, but this just seems subtley different for some reason. I must not be a connoisseur. Oh well.

lol

Originally posted by Pointinel
all i can say is props to jinzin for this thread

and

keeping up with all the bullshit this board dishes on the daily...

yeah keep sonnin them man you got my respect

*waits for someone to disregard everything posted here and call it PIS/CIS/bad writing/fanboyism what-the-fucc-ever.... its sad *

My god, I love how all the wolvie boys gather on here, and cluster**** everyone to sleep.

I think that there's about 5, let me count again...

Good pics jinzin...regardless of whether or not I agree with some of it, there's a lot to be said for backing up your claims. If we had more of it, the "fanboyism" that people are always being accused of would lessen dramatically.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Good pics jinzin...regardless of whether or not I agree with some of it, there's a lot to be said for backing up your claims. If we had more of it, the "fanboyism" that people are always being accused of would lessen dramatically. That's something we say alot. It's suprising how often it's revealed that the people doing the accusing of being fanboys admit to not reading the comics that the "fanboys" do.

Which leads me to ask, am I a fanboy for knowing more about the character and supporting him in things he has done before?

I mean if I were to argue spiderman being able to lift 15 tons to a group that hadn't read the issues during and after he got an upgrade, would that group call me a fanboy of spiderman for saying that he can do more than he "can"?

I agree, I know that he wins in the comics, but he's not beating him on these boards... more often that not...

<<You can find plenty of poor showings for any character.>>

so why aren't they equally relevent when used as counterpoints to the good showings? if someone (and i'm not speaking strictly of wolvie here) were to post a bunch of these 'poor showings' the first thing that would be claimed by wolvie defenders is that they are PIS/CIS. if you show the best, you gotta accept the worst and realize the true character is likely in NEITHER of those places but somewhere between.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<You can find plenty of poor showings for any character.>>

so why aren't they equally relevent when used as counterpoints to the good showings? if someone (and i'm not speaking strictly of wolvie here) were to post a bunch of these 'poor showings' the first thing that would be claimed by wolvie defenders is that they are PIS/CIS. if you show the best, you gotta accept the worst and realize the true character is likely in NEITHER of those places but somewhere between.

Thank you jeezus!!!!

reason..

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's something we say alot. It's suprising how often it's revealed that the people doing the accusing of being fanboys admit to not reading the comics that the "fanboys" do.

Which leads me to ask, am I a fanboy for knowing more about the character and supporting him in things he has done before?

I mean if I were to argue spiderman being able to lift 15 tons to a group that hadn't read the issues during and after he got an upgrade, would that group call me a fanboy of spiderman for saying that he can do more than he "can"?


No, what you do is worse, you guys post a bunch of SHIT that is out of his league, and make up stories.

Examples of some of their arguments.

"Wolverine is faster than the speed of sound"
" Muscles work by pushing not pulling"
" wolverine can't die"
" wolverine heals BEFORE the damage is delivered."
" wolverine can't die."
" Wolverine can't be knocked out by characters like colossus and thing."
" Wolverine is faster than spiderman"
" Wolverine has superhuman strength"
"Wolverine can jump 50 feet in the air."
" Leverage doesn't affect wolverine"
" Inertia doesn't affect wolverine."
" You MUST be faster than something to dodge it."
" It happened, just accept it."
" wolverine is cool and the best at what he does."
" Wolverine beat x so he beats xxx"

You then CONFRONT them on these subjects, and then they tangent, and call everyone "WOLVERINE HATERS"

Each and every single one of them.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<You can find plenty of poor showings for any character.>>

so why aren't they equally relevent when used as counterpoints to the good showings?Because most of the time they are tried to be raised but are discarded anyway.

Originally posted by leonidas
if someone (and i'm not speaking strictly of wolvie here) were to post a bunch of these 'poor showings' the first thing that would be claimed by wolvie defenders is that they are PIS/CIS.For wolverine they are attempted to be explained. But the explinations are discarded as well.

Originally posted by leonidas
if you show the best, you gotta accept the worst and realize the true character is likely in NEITHER of those places but somewhere between. But characters also have showings that should be obviously ridiculous. But when finding the medium the anti- people seem to give more power to the negative showings to bring the person down further than the character regularly shows in the comics they regularly show up in.

Spiderman has Firelord on a high end, and being hit by a casually lobbed bomb as a low point.

Batman has taking shots from superman in a high end and being beaten up by a bunch of people that are "blind" as a low end.

Wolverine has taking shots from Namor on his high end and BEing laid up for weeks from a simple stab on a low end.

These seem to be some of the characters that are under hot debate, and as you can see they both have high and lows for preformences that they shouldn't be able to accomplish.

Is that leverage thing directed at me? I vaguely remember you using leverage in a post, and I replied that Wolverine had the advantage of leverage in the situation... not that it didnt effect him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Is that leverage thing directed at me? I vaguely remember you using leverage in a post, and I replied that Wolverine had the advantage of leverage in the situation... not that it didnt effect him.

No, not you.

YOU are leagues better, trust me...

cordera truly, I'm not trying to hype wolverine up but damn man, there really was no need to participate in the thread if you have nothing positive to contribute, again....this was at other people's request.....no need to come here and blantently insult people for no reason at all... bad form...........bad form indeed.

Originally posted by jinzin
cordera truly, I'm not trying to hype wolverine up but damn man, there really was no need to participate in the thread if you have nothing positive to contribute, again....this was at other people's request.....no need to come here and blantently insult people for no reason at all... bad form...........bad form indeed.

I know what you were doing, it wasn't aimed at you, this was between you and brainchild.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<You can find plenty of poor showings for any character.>>

so why aren't they equally relevent when used as counterpoints to the good showings? if someone (and i'm not speaking strictly of wolvie here) were to post a bunch of these 'poor showings' the first thing that would be claimed by wolvie defenders is that they are PIS/CIS. if you show the best, you gotta accept the worst and realize the true character is likely in NEITHER of those places but somewhere between.

Most of the Wolverine feats brought up are established in the comics. If Wolverine had only taken half a dozen 100 hits and kept coming the we could say "this is an example of PIS," but as it stands he has dozens of examples of this. The same can be said for is strength, speed and even the standard showings of his healing factor. After so many showings, you need to except that it is part of his character.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I know what you were doing, it wasn't aimed at you, this was between you and brainchild.

it doesn't matter if you were talking to me or not...it wasn't called for considering...

Originally posted by jinzin
it doesn't matter if you were talking to me or not...it wasn't called for considering...

What wasn't, someone brought up a point and it was answered, what wasn't called for?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Most of the Wolverine feats brought up are established in the comics. If Wolverine had only taken half a dozen 100 hits and kept coming the we could say "this is an example of PIS," but as it stands he has dozens of examples of this. The same can be said for is strength, speed and even the standard showings of his healing factor. After so many showings, you need to except that it is part of his character.

That makes sense, but alot of these happen for story arc too...

Like the healing factor is usually suited to the writers needs, if you see where I'm coming from, like bats toolbelt.

Originally posted by jinzin
it doesn't matter if you were talking to me or not...it wasn't called for considering... Why is he even in this thread?

What is he trying to accomplish?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why is he even in this thread?

What is he trying to accomplish?

Same could be said to you...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
My god, I love how all the wolvie boys gather on here, and cluster**** everyone to sleep.

I think that there's about 5, let me count again...

this wasn't called for....period.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
That makes sense, but alot of these happen for story arc too...

Like the healing factor is usually suited to the writers needs, if you see where I'm coming from, like bats toolbelt.

again, how would you know when you barely read any wolverine comics?

Originally posted by jinzin
this wasn't called for....period.

He was doing his annoying nutswinging, and I knew who it was aimed at....

Originally posted by jinzin
this wasn't called for....period. Well I guess that answers my question, he's simply in here to harass the wolverine fans.

I have a question... Does the question really matter so much that people are willing to hurl the flaming stick at eachother?

Originally posted by jinzin
again, how would you know when you barely read any wolverine comics?

What are you blabbing about?

Does his healing have an established level?

I read xmen everyday, stop scapegoating...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well I guess that answers my question, he's simply in here to harass the wolverine fans.

Please, like when you read my stuff when you want to?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
What are you blabbing about?

Does his healing have an established level?

I read xmen everyday, stop scapegoating...

established? no..it is contingent upon various factors...it does however opperate at higher and faster levels than you give it credit for.

Originally posted by jinzin
established? no..it is contingent upon various factors...it does however opperate at higher and faster levels than you give it credit for.

Its at a lower level than you give it credit for...

Certain factors, you mean like what the writers make it to be?

Yep, answered your own question there...

Like leo said, this is an infinite loop, and I have made my point.

Peace...-+

factors having to do with the amount of energy he possesses at the time....

a point that you constantly ignore....

a lower factor than I give it credit for? he healed from his flesh being completelt irradicated from his bones, from a nuke, from being nearly burned alive in 4 panals, from the freakin SUN, the fact is these are SOME of his high end feats, and I don't even agree with them...but wolverine is shown to consistantly take TONS of damage without his healing factor being taxed out like you think it would be.

.............Enough.......

Wolverine, like any fictional character that is seen on more than one type of media, or written about by more than one writer, is going to fall prey to the exact cause of this debate.

Now, obviously those in support of a character are going to use their high end showings as feats in a debate like this (Example, Cordera's use of Ryu At Max. vs Grevious argument that Ryu's Current max showing officially is in SF3 3rd strike... therefore lowering Ryu's standards considerably)

No matter what side of an argument your on, your character and your opponents will fall prey to this problem, it is unavoidable, and is bound to start arguments like this, so I reccomend on finding mutual grounds on any characters given abilities, find what is suitable and not for any given debate, and work from there.

Originally posted by jinzin
factors having to do with the amount of energy he possesses at the time....

a point that you constantly ignore....

a lower factor than I give it credit for? he healed from his flesh being completelt irradicated from his bones, from a nuke, from being nearly burned alive in 4 panals, from the freakin SUN, the fact is these are SOME of his high end feats, and I don't even agree with them...but wolverine is shown to consistantly take TONS of damage without his healing factor being taxed out like you think it would be.

A point that I ignore?

You mean how you seem to think his eating breakfast has to do with hitting a car, making a significant difference?

They are entertainers not doctors, its based on writer to writer.

When he figths guys like hulk its higher, he fights ogun, archangel, marrow, and DD, its lower.

Meant to suit the writers needs, and some fanboys don't see this, so they overrate him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
.............Enough.......

Wolverine, like any fictional character that is seen on more than one type of media, or written about by more than one writer, is going to fall prey to the exact cause of this debate.

Now, obviously those in support of a character are going to use their high end showings as feats in a debate like this (Example, Cordera's use of Ryu At Max. vs Grevious, Current max showing in SF3 3rd strike...)

No matter what side of an argument your on, yyour character and your opponentswill fall prey to this problem, it is unavoidable, and is bound to start arguments like this, so I reccomend on finding mutual grounds on any characters given abilities, find what is suitable and not for any given debate, and work from there.

Agreed...

Originally posted by jinzin
established? no..it is contingent upon various factors...it does however opperate at higher and faster levels than you give it credit for. That's what I was talking aobut earlier. We try to explain it and the explination is discarded.

Like when he first met Jubilee, he had been crucified after a fight with the Reavers, and left for dead for a few days. So for sometime after that his healing factor was weakened.

Or the fight with Shingen, shingen had saturated his blood with poison.

Or with Magneto ripping the adamantium off of his bones was a massive damage . . .

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
.............Enough.......

Wolverine, like any fictional character that is seen on more than one type of media, or written about by more than one writer, is going to fall prey to the exact cause of this debate.

Now, obviously those in support of a character are going to use their high end showings as feats in a debate like this (Example, Cordera's use of Ryu At Max. vs Grevious argument that Ryu's Current max showing officially is in SF3 3rd strike... therefore lowering Ryu's standards considerably)

No matter what side of an argument your on, your character and your opponents will fall prey to this problem, it is unavoidable, and is bound to start arguments like this, so I reccomend on finding mutual grounds on any characters given abilities, find what is suitable and not for any given debate, and work from there.

there's a big difference there though.....cordera thinks of ryu at his maximum POTENTIAL when he's discussing the character...ryu has never been seen at his maximum potential..all we know is that he's on his way and will get there eventually.

wolverine however HAS ACTUALLY DONE the things we've said he can do, we have proof, not just speculation (which is something else entirely)

not the best analogy my friend.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
A point that I ignore?

You mean how you seem to think his eating breakfast has to do with hitting a car, making a significant difference?

They are entertainers not doctors, its based on writer to writer.

When he figths guys like hulk its higher, he fights ogun, archangel, marrow, and DD, its lower.

Meant to suit the writers needs, and some fanboys don't see this, so they overrate him.

how is it lower again when fighting those people?



oh that's right you haven't read the books, you wouldn't know.

Originally posted by jinzin
there's a big difference there though.....cordera thinks of ryu at his maximum POTENTIAL when he's discussing the character...ryu has never been seen at his maximum potential..all we know is that he's on his way and will get there eventually.

wolverine however HAS ACTUALLY DONE the things we've said he can do, we have proof, not just speculation (which is something else entirely)

not the best analogy my friend.

Which is why I disagreed with Cordera during that debate...

However, as you've pointed out... All of Wolverine's Good and bad feats are written in stone, sort of speak.

So now, who has theright to choose which feats are good to use and which ones are PIS/CIS/Bad writing?

This second aspect of the debate adds a similar dimension as I mentioned earlier, in that no matter what side of the debate your on, your opponents will use bad feats to degrade your character, while using good ones to boost theirs.

Wolverine's healing factor was almost never operating at the best of its ability (Claremount was building up to something that never got accomplished) up until the removal of his adamantium at which point it was none existent, then good a large boost and then finally was set back to the best of what it should have been before he lost the adamantium if it was operating as it should.

There are many outside factors that have come in to play with Wolverine's healing factor over the years that make it's inconstancy more glaring then it really is.

EDIT: Did I write this... it confuses even me!

Originally posted by jinzin
there's a big difference there though.....cordera thinks of ryu at his maximum POTENTIAL when he's discussing the character...ryu has never been seen at his maximum potential..all we know is that he's on his way and will get there eventually.

wolverine however HAS ACTUALLY DONE the things we've said he can do, we have proof, not just speculation (which is something else entirely)

not the best analogy my friend.

No I didn't I said at his "best showings" he would win, everyone understood this, I don't know what you are talking about. I then said lower showings lose...

Selective reading, sign of a you-know-what.

Weren't you the same person, saying wolverine was a fighting legend of the future?

I only mentioned his potential in his storyline, but we were right anyways, because we went over this with demi.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So now, who has theright to choose which feats are good to use and which ones are PIS/CIS/Bad writing? I would guess the ones that have actually read the comics to get a feel for what he does regularly.

I can admit to some outside of his ability, like Namor's punch, going into the sun, regenerating from a blood drop, and the like.

But why should a person who has not read them and has only heard about the extremes that has shown an obvious hatred for the character decide?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine's healing factor was almost never operating at the best of its ability (Claremount was building up to something that never got accomplished) up until the removal of his adamantium at which point it was none existent, then good a large boost and then finally was set back to the best of what it should have been before he lost the adamantium if it was operating as it should.

There are many outside factors that have come in to play with Wolverine's healing factor over the years that make it's inconstancy more glaring then it really is.

EDIT: Did I write this... it confuses even me!

Most of it is speculation however, we could guess at the reasons that it is, but his popularity has played a large role...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Which is why I disagreed with Cordera during that debate...

However, as you've pointed out... All of Wolverine's Good and bad feats are written in stone, sort of speak.

So now, who has theright to choose which feats are good to use and which ones are PIS/CIS/Bad writing?

This second aspect of the debate adds a similar dimension as I mentioned earlier, in that no matter what side of the debate your on, your opponents will use bad feats to degrade your character, while using good ones to boost theirs.

true I agree with that last paragraph completely....

IMO we have to take both the good with the bad and find a happy medium.....wolverine's been decribed as peak human yet he's done multiple things that a human can't do, so he must have slightly above peak human levels....

he's been rattled by a few blows from decent fighters of low strength levels but then he's seen taking class 100 shots on a semi-regular basis and just getting back up from them...so obviously his durabilitie's way higher than say a class 50 character....but galacticstrom made a good point....a class 50 shot should be a dead certain to knock logan out IF he isn't fighting back.....during a fight you can't put everything into a punch because of various circumstances...i.e. avoiding getting stabbed...

his healing factors hard to guage but I would say that he's been shown to consistantly take LOADS of damage and keep fighting.....him taking a nuke and surviving the sun however? no.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I would guess the ones that have actually read the comics to get a feel for what he does regularly.

I can admit to some outside of his ability, like Namor's punch, going into the sun, regenerating from a blood drop, and the like.

But why should a person who has not read them and has only heard about the extremes that has shown an obvious hatred for the character decide?

Why should one who has read too many, and has an obvious bias decide?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No I didn't I said at his "best showings" he would win, everyone understood this, I don't know what you are talking about. I then said lower showings lose...

Selective reading, sign of a you-know-what.

Weren't you the same person, saying wolverine was a fighting legend of the future?

I only mentioned his potential in his storyline, but we were right anyways, because we went over this with demi.

the thing is half of those so called showings are game endings which don't coincide with the canon material...in th canon material he has trouble with balrog...big difference there.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Most of it is speculation however, we could guess at the reasons that it is, but his popularity has played a large role...

who's hasn't?

And that my friend isthe million dollar question, in my mind, debates need mediators from problems exactly like this.

But mysecond theory is to reach common ground, decidefrom the start whats good and whats bad and go from there.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Why should one who has read too many, and has an obvious bias decide?


you dind;t answer his question...but defending a character to do things he's proven he could do really isn't biased... at least we can back up our claims...

wow..that's not a bad idea...could drop the amount of fighting dramatically..

Originally posted by jinzin
the thing is half of those so called showings are game endings which don't coincide with the canon material...in th canon material he has trouble with balrog...big difference there.

No, uh try again.

This is why sf debates are bad.

Some say games ARE canon, some say they aren't, some read the bios, some go off of the movies, etc.

Go to " versus fanboy test.", we've been over this with demi.

He said that 2nd strike was canon, and third wasn't.

Again, I don't think the game endings were that usable, and wasn't going off of them, you must be referring to akuma there.

The games have the up to date storyline..

Its confusing.

Originally posted by jinzin
you dind;t answer his question...but defending a character to do things he's proven he could do really isn't biased... at least we can back up our claims...

I answered it none the less.

He did it, isn't a good argument, there has to be logic parameters in a debate.

Back up, with a showing or biased pics, that equals good debating to some.

I posted several things you guys regurlarly say that don't make sense.

when debating ryu, I use an amalgam of all his showings, games comics, mangas, doshin, and animes...his strongest incarnation thus far was in alpha the movie...

Originally posted by jinzin
you dind;t answer his question...but defending a character to do things he's proven he could do really isn't biased... at least we can back up our claims... Did he just say someone with less knowledge has a better understanding of a character?

Ok, so what i'm getting basically is thatyou guys don't trust eachother to debate fairly, am I right?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I answered it none the less.

He did it, isn't a good argument, there has to be logic parameters in a debate.

Back up, with a showing or biased pics, that equals good debating to some.

I posted several things you guys regurlarly say that don't make sense.


you're missing the point...I can back up the claim that wolverine can take class 100 shots because I have a plethora of books where he's done it...

you say that he's getting beat up and KOed by people at street levels, but you can't back up how because you don't know.

you're making the same mistake whob did...my argument is not "he did it"

it's "he's done it....................ALOT, therefore we must accept it as part of his character" just like what srank was reffering to.

Originally posted by jinzin
when debating ryu, I use an amalgam of all his showings, games comics, mangas, doshin, and animes...his strongest incarnation thus far was in alpha the movie...

Thats why its hard to debate, because thats what I tried to do.

Demi said comics, and then he said "canon".

A little of everything is canon.

Discuss it on versus games, people understand it.

The problem is that people on this forum don't really know who ryu is, and just defend their character.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Did he just say someone with less knowledge has a better understanding of a character?

NO...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Did he just say someone with less knowledge has a better understanding of a character?

yes, that's basically what it equates to...this is why I find his claims on PIS/CIS to be odd...how would he know? how does he know what's consistant or not for wolverine...he's just going off other people's arguments and picking up what he likes to hear....

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, so what i'm getting basically is thatyou guys don't trust eachother to debate fairly, am I right? No, I don't trust him to debate fairly.

Originally posted by jinzin
you're missing the point...I can back up the claim that wolverine can take class 100 shots because I have a plethora of books where he's done it...

you say that he's getting beat up and KOed by people at street levels, but you can't back up how because you don't know.

you're making the same mistake whob did...my argument is not "he did it"

it's "he's done it....................ALOT, therefore we must accept it as part of his character" just like what srank was reffering to.

I understand that, did I question that he ever fought this and that?

Same with precog.

You cannot GAUGE those hits, just like when you said batman can ROLL out of certain hits, etc etc.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, so what i'm getting basically is thatyou guys don't trust eachother to debate fairly, am I right?

nobody trusts me that's for damned sure...I mean hell I post fights from beginning to end but don't trust jinzin his scans are biased...lol.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, I don't trust him to debate fairly.

I don't need to cheat to put you down, you on the otherhand, tried to say wolverine was faster than spiderman.

I don't make these piece of shit arguments.

I don't mind feats, but use logic.

Originally posted by jinzin
nobody trusts me that's for damned sure...I mean hell I post fights from beginning to end but don't trust jinzin his scans are biased...lol.

Yep, tis because of a certain LOVE.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, so what i'm getting basically is thatyou guys don't trust eachother to debate fairly, am I right?

How's the ELITES vs PREDATORS going?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I understand that, did I question that he ever fought this and that?

Same with precog.

You cannot GAUGE those hits, just like when you said batman can ROLL out of certain hits, etc etc.

actually I can...we already equated speed to power...if a character is at a strength class of ten and hits bats with the intention to kill and he claims that he'd be splattered if not for his skill, it becomes easier to gauge.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I don't need to cheat to put you down, you on the otherhand, tried to say wolverine was faster than spiderman.

I don't make these piece of shit arguments.

I don't mind feats, but use logic.

who ever said that?

Originally posted by jinzin
nobody trusts me that's for damned sure...I mean hell I post fights from beginning to end but don't trust jinzin his scans are biased...lol. At least I have'nt seen you intentionally exagerate the other perosn's claim against the person. That's why I would debate with you if I found myself on the opposite side of a fence from you.

Originally posted by jinzin
actually I can...we already equated speed to power...if a character is at a strength class of ten and hits bats with the intention to kill and he claims that he'd be splattered if not for his skill, it becomes easier to gauge.

No you cannot man.

If I got hit by wonder woman, can I say I was hit by this much force, if I survived it,no.

Use logic.

Originally posted by Creshosk
At least I have'nt seen you intentionally exagerate the other perosn's claim against the person. That's why I would debate with you if I found myself on the opposite side of a fence from you.

You did on bats vs spidey, and haven't supported our side once, you cluster****ed.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE, everyone in there right mind knows that jinzin uses his vast mental powers to place images in our minds when we read comics that suit his dark purposes... no one has ever read the REAL comic marvel intended to release.

Debating fairly essentially means not hurling the flaming stick and being able to back up your factual claims with proof.

I have to admit that my comic book knowlege has waned over the years, I do try to debate intelligently on the characters I know, and I look for evidence or corroboration from other members. Thats why I'm not in the Comiv vs foirum very much, but I don't like to see people arguing over something as simplistic as this. the solution is right there guys, find the common ground, and debate the fights the right way.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE, everyone in there right mind knows that jinzin uses his vast mental powers to place images in our minds when we read comics that suit his dark purposes... no one has ever read the REAL comic marvel intended to release.

You have shown me the light...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE, everyone in there right mind knows that jinzin uses his vast mental powers to place images in our minds when we read comics that suit his dark purposes... no one has ever read the REAL comic marvel intended to release.








OMFG!

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Debating fairly essentially means not hurling the flaming stick and being able to back up your factual claims with proof.

I have to admit that my comic book knowlege has waned over the years, I do try to debate intelligently on the characters I know, and I look for evidence or corroboration from other members. Thats why I'm not in the Comiv vs foirum very much, but I don't like to see people arguing over something as simplistic as this. the solution is right there guys, find the common ground, and debate the fights the right way.

Or making some sense, I agree there...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Debating fairly essentially means not hurling the flaming stick and being able to back up your factual claims with proof. On these boards proof is comic book feats, which are of course. . . .

Inconsistant.

Originally posted by Creshosk
On these boards proof is comic book feats, which are of course. . . .

Inconsistant.

Or stupid, when they don't make sense...