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Many people, me included, see the European Union as a threat to our soverignty and culture. Gaining too many of the trappings of statehood. The proposed and, in some places, ecacted constitution furthers the Union's appearance as a soverign super state. Are there any opinions on this matter?

I wish it was a State....don't get me wrong I love Germany..I am a patriot, but it would be great if we europeans could work to gether and actually be important again....

If you were patriotic for Germany, you would not support its abolishion as a state.

Originally posted by Britannia
If you were patriotic for Germany, you would not support its abolishion as a state.

Quite on teh contrary...I like gerany...but I am a European just as much as I am a German.....and I want the World to be united one day...so every step to that wuld be great...

The real question is on whether one needs the other more for beneficial purposes? Does this union adds more economy to the British Commonwealth. Or the other way around?

The fact of the matter is that there would not be a British commonwealth! If the European Union consumes our country, Britain will not exist as a soverign country let alone the head of a worldwide commonwealth.

Originally posted by WindDancer
The real question is on whether one needs the other more for beneficial purposes? Does this union adds more economy to the British Commonwealth. Or the other way around?

You are an American though...you are afraid that we'll get stronger than you

Originally posted by Britannia
The fact of the matter is that there would not be a British commonwealth! If the European Union consumes our country, Britain will not exist as a soverign country let alone the head of a worldwide commonwealth.

Well the European Union could become Part of the Comon Wealth....or something....whats so great aboot your own country...its not like you would be left out, you would be part as every other country....

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are an American though...you are afraid that we'll get stronger than you



A little competition never hurts anybody. Makes things more interesting.

Originally posted by WindDancer
A little competition never hurts anybody. Makes things more interesting.

Better European Competition than communist China copetition, eh?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well the European Union could become Part of the Comon Wealth....or something....whats so great aboot your own country...its not like you would be left out, you would be part as every other country....

I concur.

Well becoming all part of the EU.....is just what all the wars were about throughout history, only now it would be done a civilized way....

I can't argue with not knowing much about the intracacys of the EU,
But as an outsider,
I think that no country would lose their culture or independace. It seems to me to be more for free trade and economic prosperity. Something that could only benifit the culture of the countries...

Look at the Italian City-States, they banded together and created the Rennesance (Spelled correctly of course....)

Those two matters just can't be compared at all

No, it is more than just a trade bloc now. Track blocs don't have constitutions and don't pass down laws on the domestic policies of member states. By the way, China is becomming less and less communist. Have you seen Bejing recently? It's a capitalist paradise! Day by day, I see my country's soverignty going down the drain and I don't like it.

Oh come on, it's a ship that's sailed long ago.

I'm all for a healthy non legislative trade bloc, but not one that takes British power on a one-way street to Brussels.

Well like I said, I don't know too much about it...

Sorry, what sailed long ago?

i say out, we should be fighting to keep our national identityand preserve our right to govern our own country, make our own laws, keep our own currency, elect our own leaders.

as churchill once said:

''But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe,but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed."

KEEP THE POUND!!

http://www.sterlingtimes.org/brussels_sprout.jpg

Originally posted by Deano
i say out, we should be fighting to keep our national identityand preserve our right to govern our own country, make our own laws, keep our own currency, elect our own leaders.

as churchill once said:

''But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe,but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed."

KEEP THE POUND!!
You know you can just **** off of the EU....who cares...its not like you are forced or anything.....if oyu don't want to be part of then don't be, but don't spoil the dream cause of your rather unimportant countries affairs...

Originally posted by Britannia
I'm all for a healthy non legislative trade bloc, but not one that takes British power on a one-way street to Brussels.

You are aware that everything that becomes a law has to go through the Parlament of your country...yes every single law you now despise so much was agreed in your government..so much for your power....theres a big difference between not having any power and not using it....

Oh and I know China becomes more and more capitalisitc I just wanted to show the mind set of the US (as I suppose it to be...)

Good man.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You know you can just **** off of the EU....who cares...its not like you are forced or anything.....if oyu don't want to be part of then don't be, but don't spoil the dream cause of your rather unimportant countries affairs...

does my opinion anger you?

Good man to Deano. You don't need to get angry. We simply believe that our nation should remain soverign. I must tell you however, that we are NOT unimportant. We are the 4th mist significant country in the world. I'm not exactly sure where Germany is but I do know that it is known as 'The sick man' of Europe economically.

Besides, just because the law was passed through parliament, doesn't mean that the majority of Britons have to agree with it. It simply means that the majority of the MPs, who incidently are mostly from the Labour party, agree with it.

Originally posted by Deano
does my opinion anger you?
Not in the least...I am judst saying that we really don't need you..and if you hate the EU so much (which the majority of Brits on this Forum seem to do) you can just leave it...the EU doesn't need you....but I guess your politicans think they need the EU ....

Originally posted by Britannia
Good man to Deano. You don't need to get angry. We simply believe that our nation should remain soverign. I must tell you however, that we are NOT unimportant. We are the 4th mist significant country in the world. I'm not exactly sure where Germany is but I do know that it is known as 'The sick man' of Europe economically.

That'S what I was saying..you can have all the sovereignity you want...you don't need to be part of the EU...no one forces you...leave it if you hate it so much....

Originally posted by Britannia
Good man to Deano. You don't need to get angry. We simply believe that our nation should remain soverign. I must tell you however, that we are NOT unimportant. We are the 4th mist significant country in the world. I'm not exactly sure where Germany is but I do know that it is known as 'The sick man' of Europe economically.

Yes I know that, I blame the socialists, we might have a change though.....although I have no real statistics on that...nor do i know where to find the....anyways, 4th great for you...but who cares It is relatively unimportant for the rest of the world......I believe you think you are way more iportant that you actually are....

How EU threatens your sovereignity?

Think how great it is that after hundreds of years of wars Europe tries to build something together.

And I wouldn't mind world being one huge, highly federal country. I am cosmopolitan.

Originally posted by Britannia
Besides, just because the law was passed through parliament, doesn't mean that the majority of Britons have to agree with it. It simply means that the majority of the MPs, who incidently are mostly from the Labour party, agree with it.

Yes, but they are the people you voted for...if don't like it (and it seems that the majority still does vote for them) you could vote for someone else..that's how democracy works...and as I said your politicians seem to prefer being part of the EU

We're having a referendum soon on the future of Britain's role in the EU, it is predicted that Britons will vote overwhelmingly for a refusal of the constitution. THAT, my friend, is democracy.

This website does not represent the entire country of Great Britain by the way.

"How EU threatens your sovereignity?

Think how great it is that after hundreds of years of wars Europe tries to build something together.

And I wouldn't mind world being one huge, highly federal country. I am cosmopolitan."

I am all for Europe working together, being individual and equally cooperative. There is a difference between that and statehood.

Originally posted by Britannia
We're having a referendum soon on the future of Britain's role in the EU, it is predicted that Britons will vote overwhelmingly for a refusal of the constitution. THAT, my friend, is democracy.

Yes, it is....but so is your parlament....ok its a very strange kind of Democracy...a not fair one but still....and I think you should have a referendum to leave the EU...would be better for Europe.....

Originally posted by Britannia
This website does not represent the entire country of Great Britain by the way.

I am aware of that....still....it is rather disturbing...

Originally posted by Britannia
"How EU threatens your sovereignity?

Think how great it is that after hundreds of years of wars Europe tries to build something together.

And I wouldn't mind world being one huge, highly federal country. I am cosmopolitan."

I am all for Europe working together, being individual and equally cooperative. There is a difference between that and statehood.

But what's the big difference...what would be the real difference for your country?

This is the point! I don't want their to be a change! I want Britain to remain soverign within the TRADING BLOC of Europe.

they can shove the euro up there arse
simple as thaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Britannia
This is the point! I don't want their to be a change! I want Britain to remain soverign within the TRADING BLOC of Europe.

Well in the long run it'll be one or the other.....you are either out and sovereign or in and well...not a country anymore

Originally posted by Deano
they can shove the euro up there arse
simple as thaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Good for you...the EU should hzave kicked you right out the day yyou refused that but ...we are liberal....

How would you feel if Britain took over, through diplomatic means, Europe and imposed the British currency, a British governer, British stamps and British law into your country?
Well, that is how I, personally would feel if the EU progressed into statehood any further.
By the way, the EU does need Britain. By God, you need Britain!

Deano, you should express your views slightly more.... eloquently in order to sustain the good name of our country and our political stance. Comments like that do you no favours.

the problem with a united Europe is that nothing would ever get decided on

the French and German governments want it as a means to counter balance the power of America both militarily and economically...but thats totally unfeasible given that they both want a more socialist style Europe which will quite simply be unable to compete economically with the capitalist US...and if its unable to compete Economically then it wont be able to fund itself militarily to compete (not to mention that military spending isn't a high priority of a socialist regime)

and to further the problem...Britain is much more like the US in those affairs...a very capitalist driven nation and is pretty incompatible with the Europe that Germany and France would like

to me it seems that the only countries who are likely to benefit from the newly expanded European Union are the poorer countries such as the baltic states who are now recieving an ever increasing share of the EU subsidies and aid...

there is nothing wrong with the old trade agreement that the common market brought except that it was corrupted to negate external markets from getting any chance of trading on a level playing field with the heavily self subsidised European countries

so my verdict is to revise a trade agreement that benefits Europe and allows trade with other markets as well...such as African countries...

Originally posted by Britannia
Deano, you should express your views slightly more.... eloquently in order to sustain the good name of our country and our political stance. Comments like that do you no favours.

thats my way, one person is not gonna give our country a bad name

Try to affect having a plum in your mouth Deano

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

Originally posted by KidRock
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

no one likes the queen

I do! God Save the Queen! Deano, I would have thought that you would support such vital institutions!

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well in the long run it'll be one or the other.....you are either out and sovereign or in and well...not a country anymore




Good for you...the EU should hzave kicked you right out the day yyou refused that but ...we are liberal....

couda wouda shouda

I should be sovereign!

The British monarchy is renowned for class and distinction worldwide, it is for nobody to disregard their place in our unique and strong society.

This is an affrount to autocracy

Originally posted by shaber
This is an affrount to autocracy

Huh? What autocracy are you talking about chap?

dear boy, britain still owns americaeuro
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351416&highlight=monarch

I wouldn't have the house of commons if I were dictator

It's a good thing that you're not a dictator then, old boy. Lol

Originally posted by KidRock
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
Yeah GOD SHAVE THE QUEEN

It's a shame that this debate has descended into vulgarity.

OH....I'm enjoying it...

Originally posted by Britannia
It's a shame that this debate has descended into vulgarity.
Hey I got that from Monty Python...I am showing my British Patriotism.....

bardock old chap, dont let me get my soldiers to invade your country , cos i will if you carry oneuro

Originally posted by Deano
bardock old chap, dont let me get my soldiers to invade your country , cos i will if you carry oneuro

what?...again? ...any excuse to give the troops a run out...those boyscouts didn't deserve it the last time deano...

Originally posted by jaden101
what?...again? ...any excuse to give the troops a run out...those boyscouts didn't deserve it the last time deano...
Dude....they sold him a chocolate cookie......he wanted Mint....MINT....don't you see the connection .....

Originally posted by Deano
bardock old chap, dont let me get my soldiers to invade your country , cos i will if you carry oneuro
You and what other Twenty Armies this time?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dude....they sold him a chocolate cookie......he wanted Mint....MINT....don't you see the connection .....


You and what other Twenty Armies this time?

just me

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hey I got that from Monty Python...I am showing my British Patriotism.....

Monty Python is brilliantly vulgar in places, but I don't think that it is appropriate for a discussion on the EU.

Originally posted by Britannia
Monty Python is brilliantly vulgar in places, but I don't think that it is appropriate for a discussion on the EU.

welcome to kmc, where discussions go off topic quicker than a drop of the hat.disguise2

Originally posted by Deano
just me

Oh...we are awaiting you......

Originally posted by Britannia
Monty Python is brilliantly vulgar in places, but I don't think that it is appropriate for a discussion on the EU.

Oh I think it fits perfectly...not that this has been a discussion aboot the EU for the last page anyways....

Originally posted by Deano
welcome to kmc, where discussions go off topic quicker than a drop of the hat.disguise2

I see.

Originally posted by Britannia
I see.

Yes....I take the blame for tjhat one....may god forgive e I know you people can't.....

Sorry, you've lost me there chap... Please explain.

Originally posted by Britannia
Sorry, you've lost me there chap... Please explain.

That just didn't make sense....I don't even know what I said...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes....I take the blame for tjhat one....may god forgive e I know you people can't.....

THAT doesn't make sense! What does that mean?

Originally posted by Britannia
THAT doesn't make sense! What does that mean?

Exactly what I was saying........ok let me try....first of all my "M" doesn't work properly so it is sometimes missing.....

That being said I meant to say..in an at least for me entertaining way:

I take the blame for this thread going off topic...may god forgive me I know you guys can't

Don't take it serious.....

Tell me, have you seen Faulty Towers before (the British comedy hit)?

Originally posted by Britannia
Tell me, have you seen Faulty Towers before (the British comedy hit)?

Nope...not a lot of British Comedy over here.......whats it aboot?

If Europe goes ahead with any plan and the UK stays out...


... the UK will simply suffer. To believe otherwise is insufferably naive.

The world is developing the way it is developing, and the political wind points to the benefits of comijng together, not apart.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nope...not a lot of British Comedy over here.......whats it aboot?

You heard of John Cleese? Basically it is this stressed and tightly strung hotel owner going through the daily toil of running a hotel.
Very funny!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If Europe goes ahead with any plan and the UK stays out...


... the UK will simply suffer. To believe otherwise is insufferably naive.

The world is developing the way it is developing, and the political wind points to the benefits of comijng together, not apart.

How would The United Kingdom suffer?

Because we would be excluded from a very powerful political decision making process. We need to be able to steer that process, not cut ourselves off from it.

To deliberately exclude ourselves from such a powerful bloc is to invite irrelevancy.

Faulty Towers...funny stuff.
Blackadder is brilliant too.
Rowan Atkinson is hilarious, along with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie!

Originally posted by Britannia
You heard of John Cleese? Basically it is this stressed and tightly strung hotel owner going through the daily toil of running a hotel.
Very funny!

I will try to look into it...I find British Humour rather amusing....

Well, I'd rather be excluded and independent rather that included and integrated. A United Europe would never work... the Baltic nations (or should I say 'states') would drag it down... it would just be French, German and Italian funds being poured into these war torn states rather than a collaboration of powerful nations working for world super power status.

What makes you think that Britain would be any less of a global force?

Originally posted by Britannia
What makes you think that Britain would be any less of a global force?

Well Britain, as most other European countries are not really that much of a global force anyways....

I beg to differ. We have one of the strongest and most powerful armies in the world.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I will try to look into it...I find British Humour rather amusing....

Yeah, you'll enjoy it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well Britain, as most other European countries are not really that much of a global force anyways....

i disagreeeuro
we run everything

Originally posted by Britannia
Yeah, you'll enjoy it.

OFAH is better

Originally posted by Deano
i disagreeeuro
we run everything

Well I meant your real government now...not the NWO.....

Originally posted by Deano
i disagreeeuro
we run everything

How does one acquire that brilliant smiley with the top hat?!

If Europe manages to integrate it will become a huge global power. To remove ourselves from that equation would be stupid, and inevitably any influence we have will start to shift to Europe itself.

We would end up independant- but pointless.

To believe we can truly stand alone whilst everyone else in our part of the world unites is plain idiocy! And if we as a people truly believe that, then we would deserve that pointlessness.

Meanwhile... the Uk has never had a powerful army. It has a well-trained army, but it has always been small, and in these days it has does not have the material support needed for large military effort- no wonder, because that is prohibitvely expensive; only superpowers can afford armies of true potency. Even as I speak, more of our army is being cut and slimmed as it becomes a Rapid Reaction Force instead- a good idea, as it cannot otherwise sustain itself.

We must not allow myth and mystique to override common sense in the matter of Europe.

That took you a while to write. Whilst I appreciate that Britain is no longer a super power, I don't believe that it will be damaged by Europe. The European State idea will fade as more and more people discover what it really is about. Britain will not be taken over- whatever the cost.

But if we flip the coin on this whole EU what would happen if they get hit with a crisis or an economic market crash? Wouldn't ALL nations involved be affected? Of course they will. And what about the nations that get affected the most? Aren't they going to borrow monetary help from the more richer and wealthier nations? Forget military and cultural differences. There is bound to be nations borrowing from each other. This will lead to a level of animosity.

To me all this EU business is nothing but a big continent merged. Is like any huge corporation that builds itself on the basis of a partnership. Some people put in more money and others put in little money. And what makes the EU more better than the UN? Is practically the same thing and same goal. The way I see it is like this...if the British Commonwealth does not need the EU...then why get involved? Didn't the League of Nations teach you anything? No matter how good you think the future might look safe...there is always some event that is going to cause turmoil. Think it over...

while an economic crisis would affect every nation if they were seperate i think that a further more "official" joining of the European nations would affect Britain even more...both france and germany have pretty stagnant economies with both having terribly high levels of unemployment...the way the current situation is, Britain has been affected the least by the world economic slowdown...even less than the US...hence a futher joining with the EU would only tie Britain into the same problems that the rest of Europe is suffering...and it would seem the only reason france and germany want britain in to help counteract their own economic problems...

The Baltic countries, in addition, will need Britain's money- Currently, we are the economic powerhouse of Europe (with thanks to Thatcher's government in the 1980s). Britain would be the funding station of the rest of Europe.
Apologies for the bad wording!

Originally posted by WindDancer
But if we flip the coin on this whole EU what would happen if they get hit with a crisis or an economic market crash? Wouldn't ALL nations involved be affected? Of course they will. And what about the nations that get affected the most? Aren't they going to borrow monetary help from the more richer and wealthier nations? Forget military and cultural differences. There is bound to be nations borrowing from each other. This will lead to a level of animosity.

To me all this EU business is nothing but a big continent merged. Is like any huge corporation that builds itself on the basis of a partnership. Some people put in more money and others put in little money. And what makes the EU more better than the UN? Is practically the same thing and same goal. The way I see it is like this...if the British Commonwealth does not need the EU...then why get involved? Didn't the League of Nations teach you anything? No matter how good you think the future might look safe...there is always some event that is going to cause turmoil. Think it over...


I agree. Britain doesn't need the EU- The EU needs Britain! The British free market vs the French socialistic economic model... hmmm. We'd be funding France's ridiculous attatchment to socialism!... what a ghastly thought!

Originally posted by Britannia
How does one acquire that brilliant smiley with the top hat?!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies.php

on this page old chap

Originally posted by Deano
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies.php

on this page old chap

Many thanks old boy.

Originally posted by Britannia
I agree. Britain doesn't need the EU- The EU needs Britain! The British free market vs the French socialistic economic model... hmmm. We'd be funding France's ridiculous attatchment to socialism!... what a ghastly thought!

it would be a ghastly thought if it didn't happen...the fact that it does NOW means its a living nightmare...all in the form of the common agricultural policy...

think about how utterly and infinitely difficult it would be to make a nation of Europe...every single law no matter how old from every single country would have to be reviewed...updated and synchronised with the agreement of all the other countries...the debating would take forever...

just today the complexities of a single issue and the laws in different European countries were brought to light on the issue of fertility laws and how just about every country has different restrictions

can you imagine how long each of these issues would take to debate and agree before a super state could be implemented...

Originally posted by jaden101
it would be a ghastly thought if it didn't happen...the fact that it does NOW means its a living nightmare...all in the form of the common agricultural policy...

think about how utterly and infinitely difficult it would be to make a nation of Europe...every single law no matter how old from every single country would have to be reviewed...updated and synchronised with the agreement of all the other countries...the debating would take forever...

just today the complexities of a single issue and the laws in different European countries were brought to light on the issue of fertility laws and how just about every country has different restrictions

can you imagine how long each of these issues would take to debate and agree before a super state could be implemented...

Yes, and the huge differences between member states in an economic and cultural sense, would not allow all of the member states to merge into one. Can you imagine the biccering within the 'European State Parliament'? It'd be the French on one side and the British on the other... no laws would be passed! It'd be an enlarged version of Italy's constant political difficulties.