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magneto or superman could pretty much beat them by themselves

Originally posted by jacobo0o
magneto or superman could pretty much beat them by themselves

You're not serious are you?

well......
do u think that doom and hulk would win??

Well hulk could beat supes, and mags would beat doom......draw?

if its savage hulk he might beat superman...
but this is magneto and superman....
doom will end quick so its more of a 2:1

magneto and supes easily

Originally posted by jks
Well hulk could beat supes, and mags would beat doom......draw?

Doom would punk Magneto, as usual, and wait out Hulk and Superman's fight, and take down the winner. Doom shares victory with no one.

To tell you the truth, Doom is the First to die.

And what's your reason for saying this?

Damn it. I didn't know Dooms stats was better than Magnetos. What the hell is this about. So how come the Fantastic four, chump Doom all the time. Anyway, Magneto is almost at Dooms Level and there for will tire, each other out, and after Superman kills Hulk, he will Get to Doom.

I guess Doom isnt the first. Mags is.

Well if you ask that, then you gotta ask why they punk Galactus also, and why Uatu the Watcher asks them for help.

But of course, I assume you know very little of Doom, so for your viewing pleasure; he's power drained the Surfer, Galactus, Watchers
and the Beyonder, his having outright conquered marvel earth and given it back out of boredom, his having made the heroes reborn earth into his personal fiefdom, having survived shots from Thanos using the power gem, having caught Captain America's shield mid throw, having killed a lion when unarmed and unarmoured, having managed to put one over on Mephisto himself, having immunized himself to Magneto's powers, having built a time machine, having built devices that let him move around in frozen time, having mastered a technique that lets him switch bodies with targets at will, being considered a legitimate candidate for Sorceror Supreme of the Earth dimension, having succeeded in developing a cure for the Thing's condition, having taken mental attacks from the Overmind and a Purple Man who had enslaved the entire planet, having thrown down in personal combat with Adam Warlock and the Magus...

So, still think Doom's the first to die?

I know what you mean. If Dr. Doom was a good guy, he will never loose.

Just remember, losing to Reed "even Galactus and Uatu respect my intelligence" Richards is not a bad thing, and it's can usually be expected a majority of the time.

Doom-Mag - draw
Supes - Hulk - Superman will win.
1-0 victory for Supes/Mag team.

Doom the last to Die, but he still dies. Superman will take care of him. (Also is there a thread on Nick Fury Vs Blackpanther and Batman Prep time Orama or just Simply Black panther and Nick prep....) ok anyway, if Superman switches dancing partners with Magneto, then Superman kills doom and Magneto kills Hulk, or hold him off untill Supes get there.

It's not doom that is inconsequential in this fight, it's hulk.
With Doom there, It could go either way depending on prep.

demi had a good theory on how Magneto could amp superman's power

that could work

Yeah amplify the solar energy a 1000fold or someshit and Superman would become way too much to handle.

Too easy. Magneto controls the yellow sun energy that gives Superman his powers. It'd be like Superman jumping in the sun for a while. Hulk goes down too fast and then it's Superman and Magneto on Doom.

But Magneto on his own could handle Doom. As cool as Dr.Doom is (And I do like the guy* he just isn't on Magneto's level in this fight. There are things Dr.Doom could do to even it out, but Magneto takes him.


Superman and Magneto....easy win.

Originally posted by Batman Wins
Damn it. I didn't know Dooms stats was better than Magnetos. What the hell is this about. So how come the Fantastic four, chump Doom all the time. Anyway, Magneto is almost at Dooms Level and there for will tire, each other out, and after Superman kills Hulk, he will Get to Doom.

I guess Doom isnt the first. Mags is.

I hate to say this, but the F4 aren't exactly "low-level"...they DID get their power from cosmic rays. Wouldn't that put them somewhere near cosmic(while not as powerful, at least close)


Although Doom isn't stupid. It won't take much for him to realize Magnetos amplifying the suns energy for a reason.


I say Doom wins due to the fact he's probably got a million and 5 gadgets to take on people as strong as Superman, and a million and thirty for Magneto.

"I hate to say this, but the F4 aren't exactly "low-level"...they DID get their power from cosmic rays. Wouldn't that put them somewhere near cosmic(while not as powerful, at least close)"

...Huh?

"Although Doom isn't stupid. It won't take much for him to realize Magnetos amplifying the suns energy for a reason."

Then what?

Then he negates Magneto's mutant power, if he didn't do so from the beginning. And after that, he can do to Superman what he did to Hulk, high pitch sonic frequency. And since Supes has the super-hearing going for him, it's that much more effective. It may hurt Hulk too, but like Doom cares. That's if he does that while Supes is occupied with Hulk, or before Supes realizes what he's about to do.

bump

bump

Supes can speedblitz Doom and then Supes and Mags gangbang the hulk.

Superman would instinctively head for the big green muscled brute first.

Doom is a good sorceror as well.

And Doom already has magneto well in hand.

Since they have basic knowledge of each other Supes would know to speedblitz Doom as he is a bigger threat than Hulk at the beginning of the battle. Hulk poses no threat at the beginning of the battle since he is only brute strength. Supes speedblitzes Doom and tosses the hulk to the sun a picosecond after the match begins.

Superman starts by rushing at Hulk first. Delivering a hard punch to knock him a couple miles away, in a milisecond to get him out the way (even if only for a couple of seconds). Then he rushes Doom and throws him in the sun (think your way outta that). Then comes back to beat the hell outta the Hulk.

And this is without Mags magnifying his power. If this doesn't work and the fight drags on than Supes flies to the Sun for several seconds, then comes back and everybody gets killed.

Supes takes this by himself.

Doom wins

Doom's magic beats Superman

and as usual Doom makes a fool of Mags

than he just throws Hulk in a hole or somthing

Originally posted by Grimm22
Doom wins

Doom's magic beats Superman

and as usual Doom makes a fool of Mags

than he just throws Hulk in a hole or somthing


lol

yeah i was gona say

superman is awfly weak to magic, and doom is quite the sorceror

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
lol

yeah i was gona say

superman is awfly weak to magic, and doom is quite the sorceror

I would say he is probobly in the top 5 for marvel if not at least the top 7

goes like this if you ask me...

1. Dr. Strange

2. Shaman

3. Talisman

ect..

people are seriously underrateing the good doctor here, this is a man who pretty much isnt afraid to face anyone second only to reed in the field of science and second only to dr strange in the field of magic doom by himself could bet sups magneto or hulk heck he could send a doombot to do it, his armour makes anything ironman evermade look like a 5th grade science project

Hmmm. OneDumbGo's version of the fight:

Superman and Magneto are their normal selves. Hulk is his current version, smart but able to be enraged whereby he loses his intellect. Dr. Doom has his normal armor. Assuming all characters know the other team is hostile, Supes would rush over to the Hulk and start pounding away. Hulk would get madder and madder and go toe-to-toe with a surprised but still determined Superman. Supes would go to his wide array of powers. Most likely, he'd be using super speed to hit Hulk who can't nail him in return. This however would seriously piss off Hulk who's ever increasing strength allows him to take Superman's increasingly violent blows.

Doom in the meantime has distracted Magneto with a Doombot made of teflon and/or nullified his powers using Sentinel copied technology. He studies the Hulk/Supes fight. Knowing Superman's nigh unlimited power potential, he'd get real careful as if he had to face Thor. Which means no straight up fighting. He'd probably use the magic Crimson Bands of Cytorrak to bind Superman to prevent him from utilizing his speed. Doom's got a backup plan because he'd probably think Supes would eventually break his way out, but Supes doesn't much to his surprise.

Supes proceeds to get pounded on by Hulk who's been thoroughly enraged. Doom lets Hulk have his merry way and returns to Magneto, who's finally destroyed his Doombot and/or broken the Sentinel power dampening field through subtle electromagnetic manipulation. Doom using one of his uncanny power absorption modules, now goads Magneto into releasing his full power. Mags obliges and creates an EMP which Doom partially absorbs with his power absorption module. He proceeds to blow Magneto away with his power gauntlets.

Unfortunately for Doom, Hulk's pounding Supes has actually worked against him, because Supes who sees no way out of the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak through his own strength, continues to goad Hulk into hitting him harder. Hulk gets more enraged at not being able to kill Supes and rages up and smashes him, but destroys the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak (once thought impossible until this fight!) in the process.

The feedback from destroying the Crimson Bands is tremendous and throws all involved for a loop. Doom gets magic feedback in particular as the spellcaster (I'm pretty sure his will is tied to the magic's strength). Supes has moments to recover and targets Doom, the magic user. He rips through his forcefield and tears most of his armor off revealing a scarred man underneath. Doom (sneaky devil that he is), perceives Supes' compassion for humans and convinces Superman that the Hulk forced him to help him. Supes isn't entirely gullible and goes ahead and crushes one of his hands anyway to prevent his magic incantations. Satisfied that Doom is too stunned to cast more magic (which he actually is) Superman turns his attention back to the Hulk.

Foolish alien though. Doom still retains his charged power module and charges up what remains of his armor. Doom is tired of subtle machinations and steps forward like the badass he is, he can't stand that another being made him kneel down. In the middle of Hulk's/Superman's throwdown, he throws himself into battle and grabs Superman from behind with his remaining gauntlet. Doom forces every erg of pent up EMP power directly into Superman's head. Superman keels over and Hulk kills him.

That would be the end, but like Tron said, "Doom shares victory with no one." Doom is now crippled, still dazed from the magic feedback and has busted armor and no power module and faces off against an entirely pissed off Hulk.

I'm still willing to give him 50/50 odds on that one. -.-b

Originally posted by db_renji
Then he rushes Doom and throws him in the sun (think your way outta that).

Very well...

Ovoid mind trick.

Well, didn't take much thought, now did it?

i say doom could take all 3 by himself

Originally posted by hawkwind
i say doom could take all 3 by himself .... Is that a joke?

Originally posted by Tron
Very well...

Ovoid mind trick.

Well, didn't take much thought, now did it?

Doesn't Doom need to make eye contact?

Like I said what is to stop Supes from speedblitzing Doom a picosecond after the match starts since he has basic knowledge of Doom and would know Doom is a bigger threat than Hulk. Then a picosecond later hulk is flung into the sun. At base strength Hulk is not very strong compared to Supes and it doesn't matter since he is flung into the sun.

Supes with speedblitz ftw. I mean what is Doom going to do against a speedblitz. Hulk is screwed after that.

Just out of curiousity, how often has Superman actually speedblitzed people? I've seen him do it against SPB in 'Infinite Crisis,' and I suppose Wonderwoman in 'Sacrifice.' And that particular speedblitz started at the speed of sound because he had to accelerate. He couldn't just turn on superspeed like Flash, he needed momentum. I see 'speedblitz' thrown around almost as often as anything in these forums and with all my comics reading, I just don't see him utilize it much at all.

hence, I roll my eyes whenever I see it. But I'll give you guys a chance to post some scans or examples or point me to a thread, because such a popular term cannot be wholly devoid of actual merit.

well... DOom needs some good ol' prep for this fight, otherwise yeah he will be the first one to get crushed here.

Originally posted by bean_machine
Doesn't Doom need to make eye contact?

Like I said what is to stop Supes from speedblitzing Doom a picosecond after the match starts since he has basic knowledge of Doom and would know Doom is a bigger threat than Hulk. Then a picosecond later hulk is flung into the sun. At base strength Hulk is not very strong compared to Supes and it doesn't matter since he is flung into the sun.

Supes with speedblitz ftw. I mean what is Doom going to do against a speedblitz. Hulk is screwed after that.

Trys to speedblitz Doom

Runs into Doom's magic sheilds

Originally posted by Grimm22
Trys to speedblitz Doom

Runs into Doom's magic sheilds

That's the most Doom-fanboyish thing I've ever heard you say. Superman would trounce him.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Trys to speedblitz Doom

Runs into Doom's magic sheilds
How can he run into a shield when Doom has no time to make one?

Originally posted by Brian Oswald
How can he run into a shield when Doom has no time to make one?

He can't. It's just that Doom is God to Grimm22.

Originally posted by JuanJohnboy
well... DOom needs some good ol' prep for this fight, otherwise yeah he will be the first one to get crushed here.
dont think so doom is praticly preped for every hero on earth 24/7 with the armour he has on

oh and good eye on the whole speedblitz issue i'ld have to say that mostly everyone on this forum who's ever voted superman the winner said it was because of a speedblitz but they never backed up their case

Originally posted by lando005
dont think so doom is praticly preped for every hero on earth 24/7 with the armour he has on

oh and good eye on the whole speedblitz issue i'ld have to say that mostly everyone on this forum who's ever voted superman the winner said it was because of a speedblitz but they never backed up their case

The case is SPEEDBLITZ. He makes everybody in this fight look like fools when it comes to speed.

Originally posted by batdude123
The case is SPEEDBLITZ. He makes everybody in this fight look like fools when it comes to speed. like it was stated above how fast can he really do a speedblitz from a dead start we would like some proof on this

Originally posted by lando005
like it was stated above how fast can he really do a speedblitz from a dead start we would like some proof on this

*sigh*

There are TONS upon TONS. Do a little research. The Superman respect thread is FILLED with his speedblitzes.

Slaughter by either Mags or Supes.

Originally posted by batdude123
*sigh*

There are TONS upon TONS. Do a little research. The Superman respect thread is FILLED with his speedblitzes. just answer the question since you know so much offically how fast can sups move from a dead start as in he's just standing there next second he takes off not standing there ready to go on a moments notice

Originally posted by lando005
just answer the question since you know so much offically how fast can sups move from a dead start as in he's just standing there next second he takes off not standing there ready to go on a moments notice

He travelled from one part of the galaxy to another in mere moments, so.... yeah. He makes everybody in this thread look like chumps when it comes to speed.

Hulk's team smasher

Hulk and Doom win

hysterical2 crylaugh

Go be an idiot somewhere else.

Originally posted by batdude123
He travelled from one part of the galaxy to another in mere moments, so.... yeah. He makes everybody in this thread look like chumps when it comes to speed. first off which incranation of superman did that feat i belive we are using the current version, plus i would still like to know his offical max dead start speed

Originally posted by lando005
first off which incranation of superman did that feat i belive we are using the current version, plus i would still like to know his offical max dead start speed

That was good ole' Post-Crisis Superman.

Originally posted by batdude123
That was good ole' Post-Crisis Superman. hasnt he become more powerful since he first apeared? i mean feat wise the things he could do has increased since then hasnt it and i would still like to know dead start time

Originally posted by lando005
hasnt he become more powerful since he first apeared? i mean feat wise the things he could do has increased since then hasnt it and i would still like to know dead start time

Yes, he has. During the golden age, he wasn't NEARLY as powerful as he was during the silver age. Then, John Byrne started from the ground-up with Post Crisis Superman. From 1986 til now, he's been getting more and more powerful by the year.

His speed is way above lightspeed.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, he has. During the golden age, he wasn't NEARLY as powerful as he was during the silver age. Then, John Byrne started from the ground-up with Post Crisis Superman. From 1986 til now, he's been getting more and more powerful by the year.

His speed is way above lightspeed. this may seem off topic but doesnt that get a little stale to u? with sups's power always on the rise they could have kept him at golden age levels and he would have been fine

Originally posted by batdude123
*sigh*

There are TONS upon TONS. Do a little research. The Superman respect thread is FILLED with his speedblitzes. It's easy to state that they're out there just as its easy for me to state that the ones I've mentioned are nowhere near the feat level you've posited. The speedblitz in 'Sacrifice?' That was speed of sound level until he got enough momentum to start accelerating at near light speeds to make it to the Sun with Wonderwoman. The speedblitz in 'Infinite Crisis?' Did that with Superman-2's help. He doesn't need much time to speed up once he gets going, but at close range and full on bloodlust, the best I've seen him do is break the sound barrier. From these examples, it appears obvious that only after gaining momentum can he traverse these super speeds. Maybe you can explain it away by saying he wasn't really trying? Even though he was probably as bloodlusted against Wonderwoman than he ever was, but look at Superman #207. Superman was trying to save militants from being executed callously by Equus in the opening pages. He sure damn as hell was trying to get there as fast as possible to save human lives and he couldn't make it in time. He was in the same city as Equus and couldn't make it. Those are supersonic speeds from a dead start. Doom's shields can easily take on that power.

Show us one of these famous speedblitzes please. Because he doesn't use them much from my reading. Granted, I've read more of his current stuff but he didn't use it against Mongul, Despero, Zod, Preus, Blackrock... lord the list goes on. This so-called famous 'speedblitz' that can apparently annihilate the Hulk in a pico second? Apparently, he forgets that he has it, or it isn't what you think it is. Either way, if Superman almost never resorts to it or can't do it, Superman proponents should stop touting it as a panacea for all of Superman's ills, because it's beginning to sound very strained.

Originally posted by lando005
this may seem off topic but doesnt that get a little stale to u? with sups's power always on the rise they could have kept him at golden age levels and he would have been fine

No. It makes sense. His cells draw in more and more sunlight, while keeping the energy stored in reserve. That's how his body works. Therefore, he gets more and more powerful as time goes on.

Originally posted by batdude123
No. It makes sense. His cells draw in more and more sunlight, while keeping the energy stored in reserve. That's how his body works. Therefore, he gets more and more powerful as time goes on. but his body does not mutate to contain more enegy he has a limit as to how much he can store

Originally posted by lando005
but his body does not mutate to contain more enegy he has a limit as to how much he can store

Technically there isn't considering he can turn into "Superman Prime," who has been sun-dipping for 15,000 years.

magneto and supes win. dr. doom and magneto isnt a fight. no matter the feats abilities of dr. doom, they don't take away from magnetos. magneto over doom 10/10

hulk and supes isnt a fight, speedblitzed and thrown into the sun.
no matter the strength of the hulk, he would never land a hit. not to mention the fact supes and magneto could do all this from a long distance. heat vision and magnetism won't have to be from close range

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's easy to state that they're out there just as its easy for me to state that the ones I've mentioned are nowhere near the feat level you've posited. The speedblitz in 'Sacrifice?' That was speed of sound level until he got enough momentum to start accelerating at near light speeds to make it to the Sun with Wonderwoman. The speedblitz in 'Infinite Crisis?' Did that with Superman-2's help. He doesn't need much time to speed up once he gets going, but at close range and full on bloodlust, the best I've seen him do is break the sound barrier. From these examples, it appears obvious that only after gaining momentum can he traverse these super speeds. Maybe you can explain it away by saying he wasn't really trying? Even though he was probably as bloodlusted against Wonderwoman than he ever was, but look at Superman #207. Superman was trying to save militants from being executed callously by Equus in the opening pages. He sure damn as hell was trying to get there as fast as possible to save human lives and he couldn't make it in time. He was in the same city as Equus and couldn't make it. Those are supersonic speeds from a dead start. Doom's shields can easily take on that power.

Show us one of these famous speedblitzes please. Because he doesn't use them much from my reading. Granted, I've read more of his current stuff but he didn't use it against Mongul, Despero, Zod, Preus, Blackrock... lord the list goes on. This so-called famous 'speedblitz' that can apparently annihilate the Hulk in a pico second? Apparently, he forgets that he has it, or it isn't what you think it is. Either way, if Superman almost never resorts to it or can't do it, Superman proponents should stop touting it as a panacea for all of Superman's ills, because it's beginning to sound very strained.

You're correct about Superman not using the speedblitz very often. However, it is still a viable tactic to use against his opponents, considering that he CAN do it. And as per forum rules; if it's in the character's power set, it's fair play to bring up in a debate.

There are MANY feats that negate what you're bringing up:

-flew around the world before Lois could speak another word

-flew across the galaxy in moments

-beat Bizarro in a race who stalemated a blitzing Zoom

-knocked out a blitzing Zoom

-flew to one of Jupiter's moon in a couple minutes

-flew to the sun in seconds

-caught 500 (or more) aliens in mid-air before any of them could react

-speedblitzed an entire CITY full of villains before any of them could do anything about it (in fact, it looked like he was toying with them to boot)

etc. etc. etc.

You also forgot to mention the fact that he doesn't like to go passed the speed of sound while on Earth because it causes atmospheric disturbances. That doesn't mean that he can't, however.

So, as it stands, Superman speedblitzes Doom and Hulk before they can react.

Originally posted by batdude123
He can't. It's just that Doom is God to Grimm22.

No

Thanos > Doom

God > Everything

Originally posted by Brian Oswald
How can he run into a shield when Doom has no time to make one?

They are automatic and built into his armor

Take away his sheilds and Doom is dead, thats the only thing that is saving him from Supes

Originally posted by great_dane
magneto and supes win. dr. doom and magneto isnt a fight. no matter the feats abilities of dr. doom, they don't take away from magnetos. magneto over doom 10/10

hulk and supes isnt a fight, speedblitzed and thrown into the sun.
no matter the strength of the hulk, he would never land a hit. not to mention the fact supes and magneto could do all this from a long distance. heat vision and magnetism won't have to be from close range when has magneto ever proven to be dooms supirior?

Originally posted by Grimm22
They are automatic and built into his armor

Take away his sheilds and Doom is dead, thats the only thing that is saving him from Supes

Doom dies.

Originally posted by batdude123
You're correct about Superman not using the speedblitz very often. However, it is still a viable tactic to use against his opponents, considering that he CAN do it. And as per forum rules; if it's in the character's power set, it's fair play to bring up in a debate.

There are MANY feats that negate what you're bringing up:

-flew around the world before Lois could speak another word

-flew across the galaxy in moments

-beat Bizarro in a race who stalemated a blitzing Zoom

-knocked out a blitzing Zoom

-flew to one of Jupiter's moon in a couple minutes

-flew to the sun in seconds

-caught 500 (or more) aliens in mid-air before any of them could react

-speedblitzed an entire CITY full of villains before any of them could do anything about it (in fact, it looked like he was toying with them to boot)

etc. etc. etc.

You also forgot to mention the fact that he doesn't like to go passed the speed of sound while on Earth because it causes atmospheric disturbances. That doesn't mean that he can't, however.

So, as it stands, Superman speedblitzes Doom and Hulk bef
ore they can react.
but if that's the case he would go past the speed of sound in this fight either hey may be fighitng to the best of their abilities but they would still be fighting in character

Originally posted by lando005
when has magneto ever proven to be dooms supirior?

He hasn't. However, in a THEORETICAL fight (like this one for instence), Magneto has more than enough ways to put Doom down for the majority.

Originally posted by batdude123
He hasn't. However, in a THEORETICAL fight (like this one for instence), Magneto has more than enough ways to put Doom down for the majority. and the same can be said about doom

magneto being superior or not, teaming him up with supes is lame. supes takes them both with ease.

Originally posted by lando005
but if that's the case he would go past the speed of sound in this fight either hey may be fighitng to the best of their abilities but they would still be fighting in character

Contradictions such as that usually (MOST of the time; there are a few occasions when it stays true) aren't taken into account by the writers. He's shown to be able to go way past the sound barrier on Earth MANY times. Therefore, Doom and Hulk die.

Doom isnt stupid

He knows how powerful Mags is and has everything he needs to take him down built directly into his armor.

Originally posted by great_dane
magneto being superior or not, teaming him up with supes is lame. supes takes them both with ease. i dunno doom's not one to ever underestimate against any opponent

Originally posted by lando005
and the same can be said about doom

Not really. Magneto is more powerful.

Originally posted by batdude123
Contradictions such as that usually (MOST of the time; there are a few occasions when it stays true) aren't taken into account by the writers. He's shown to be able to go way past the sound barrier on Earth MANY times. Therefore, Doom and Hulk die.
but your the one who stated he doesnt like to go past the sound barrier on earth i would assume he would do it only when he's in a pinch i dont think that's the case with this fight

Originally posted by Grimm22
Doom isnt stupid

He knows how powerful Mags is and has everything he needs to take him down built directly into his armor.

Such as... ?

One electromagnetic pulse, and Doom's armor would malfunction.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. Magneto is more powerful. not really true doom pretty much has everything he needs at his disposail in his armour

Originally posted by batdude123
Doom dies.

Debatebly

Still though, with prep Doom would mop the floor with Supes

Originally posted by lando005
but your the one who stated he doesnt like to go past the sound barrier on earth i would assume he would do it only when he's in a pinch i dont think that's the case with this fight

Yes, he's said it before. However, writers tend to ignore that, and make him go as fast as they want him to go on Earth.

Originally posted by batdude123
Such as... ?

One electromagnetic pulse, and Doom's armor would malfunction. you dont think doom's armour is emp sheilded from the likes of magneto? doom is very well aware of magneto's level of power he'll be ready for whatever he could do

Originally posted by lando005
not really true doom pretty much has everything he needs at his disposail in his armour

Doom doesn't have squat on Magneto. Magneto can easily disable Doom's armor if he so chooses, however writers wouldn't let that happen.

Originally posted by batdude123
Such as... ?

One electromagnetic pulse, and Doom's armor would malfunction.

Then why didn't Mags do that to Doom when he took over the world and gave Mags prep time to beat him with pretty much everything at his disposal and Doom still continuously pwned him.

Doom has always treated Mags like his b***h

It just goes to show you that being more powerful doesn't always mean they are superior

Originally posted by lando005
you dont think doom's armour is emp sheilded from the likes of magneto? doom is very well aware of magneto's level of power he'll be ready for whatever he could do

What are you talking about? He doesn't have prep for this fight, and he doesn't have anything to shield himself from an EMP, or merely a body pull (where Magneto rips you completely in half).

Originally posted by batdude123
Doom doesn't have squat on Magneto. Magneto can easily disable Doom's armor if he so chooses, however writers wouldn't let that happen.

Use your delusion

Originally posted by Grimm22
Then why didn't Mags do that to Doom when he took over the world and gave Mags prep time to beat him with pretty much everything at his disposal and Doom still continuously pwned him.

Doom has always treated Mags like his b***h

It just goes to show you that being more powerful doesn't always mean they are superior

Yeah... those are called 'plot devices.' Doom couldn't logically do anything to Magneto. Especially with his shields up.

Originally posted by batdude123
Doom doesn't have squat on Magneto. Magneto can easily disable Doom's armor if he so chooses, however writers wouldn't let that happen. like i said doom knows mags powerset inside and out that armour of his has been built to take on almost any superhuman on earth at a moments notice

Originally posted by Grimm22
Use your delusion

Logically speaking, Doom shouldn't be beating Mags.

Unless you REALLY want to defend Superman against Darkseid...

Originally posted by Grimm22

....being more powerful doesn't always mean they are superior


Exactly!

Originally posted by lando005
like i said doom knows mags powerset inside and out that armour of his has been built to take on almost any superhuman on earth at a moments notice

His armor is magnetically resistent, that is true. However, the technology Doom has isn't immune to an EMP from Magneto (considering Magneto disabled EVERY SINGLE machine on the PLANET with on his his EMP blasts).

Originally posted by batdude123
What are you talking about? He doesn't have prep for this fight, and he doesn't have anything to shield himself from an EMP, or merely a body pull (where Magneto rips you completely in half). he's had that type of perperation for years now if he wasnt somehow protected from magnetic fields or pulses doom would have been beaten long a go with an electromagnet or something else to that effect

Originally posted by batdude123
There are MANY feats that negate what you're bringing up:

-flew around the world before Lois could speak another wordI'd like to see the context of this, because its the best piece of evidence you have that he can turn on the speed in a split second.
Originally posted by batdude123
-flew across the galaxy in momentsSound like momentum again, just like in 'Sacrifice.'
Originally posted by batdude123
-beat Bizarro in a race who stalemated a blitzing Zoom

-knocked out a blitzing Zoom

-flew to one of Jupiter's moon in a couple minutes

-flew to the sun in seconds

-caught 500 (or more) aliens in mid-air before any of them could react

-speedblitzed an entire CITY full of villains before any of them could do anything about it (in fact, it looked like he was toying with them to boot)
Again, momentum, momentum, momentum.
Originally posted by batdude123
You also forgot to mention the fact that he doesn't like to go passed the speed of sound while on Earth because it causes atmospheric disturbances. That doesn't mean that he can't, however. Well then, that ends this debate. If he can, he doesn't like to. So he'd probably avoid it. So what's the difference in this fight? I could name several dozen fights against real baddies and probably see it no more than the twice I've noted. If that's the case, and you've provided the reason he doesn't like using it, then it stands to reason that Superman would use the 'speedblitz' at most 1 out of 10 variations of his fights. So for that argument, I'll stipulate that his 'speedblitz' is your 'pwnorz speedblitz' and one fight of the ten goes to Superman and Magneto because of your 'pwnorz speedblitz.' I still give him and Magneto two more for other reasons. So 7/10 Hulk and Doom. Check.

Originally posted by batdude123
His armor is magnetically resistent, that is true. However, the technology Doom has isn't immune to an EMP from Magneto (considering Magneto disabled EVERY SINGLE machine on the PLANET with on his his EMP blasts). his powers were boosted at the time he cant normally generate that kind of pulse

Originally posted by lando005
he's had that type of perperation for years now if he wasnt somehow protected from magnetic fields or pulses doom would have been beaten long a go with an electromagnet or something else to that effect

Like I said, his armor IS magnetically resistent. However, Magneto can polarize ANY material (not just metal) on a molecular level.

Nobody has ever used an EMP on Doom before. What you're saying about Doom's armor is speculation AT BEST.

Originally posted by lando005
his powers were boosted at the time he cant normally generate that kind of pulse

No, he wasn't.

Originally posted by batdude123
Like I said, his armor IS magnetically resistent. However, Magneto can polarize ANY material (not just metal) on a molecular level.

Nobody has ever used an EMP on Doom before. What you're saying about Doom's armor is speculation AT BEST. honestly now in the world they live in you dont think someone of doom's intellignce hasnt already taken precautions agains emps? doom who comes up with near flawless plans, doom who has ruled the world multipule times over and has upsured the powers of cosmic beings?

Originally posted by batdude123
No, he wasn't. list atleast 3-4 times where magneto generated a planet wide emp under regular conditions without haveing some kind of boost or augmentation

I happen to agree with batdude123 that Magneto does not need physical augmentation to reverse poles or use EMPs, even on a planetary scale. Yet, lando005 brings up a good point. Last time he did it, he was on that stupid drug, I think Fabian Cortez amped him up on another one... Anyway, I'm sure he can do it anyway and I assumed so. He does need time to prep it though, so the EMP's I was thinking of were smaller, more localized ones because Doom's the last guy on Earth to give Magneto time to meditate and take a deep breath.

BTW, the whole point about diamteric magnetism and its utilities was thoroughly debunked in another Magneto vs. thread. If I remember correctly, all organic molecules are affected by magnetism, but diametric magnetism is the weakest form of all. The most anybody's been able to do is levitate a frog. Woopie.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah... those are called 'plot devices.' Doom couldn't logically do anything to Magneto. Especially with his shields up.

Magic > Magneto

Hey, Reed made a device to pwn Mags in one day

You dont think Doom would have an even more advanced device in his armor?!?

Originally posted by batdude123
Logically speaking, Doom shouldn't be beating Mags.

Unless you REALLY want to defend Superman against Darkseid...

There is no logic in comics

Seriously, there is a canadian samurai with claws who fights a giant green monster who gets stronger as he gets angrier...

Where's the logic?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sound like momentum again, just like in 'Sacrifice.'

Momentum? Yeah, crossing 50,000 lightyears in moments.... sure sounds like he needs A LOT of momentum to build up to those speeds. Please, if this is the best you've got, don't bother. His 'momentum' is built up before either Doom or Hulk could even formulate a single thought.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Again, momentum, momentum, momentum.

What the hell are you talking about? Those were legitimate speedblitzes. How did he have that against the aliens, Bizarro, the city of villains, Zoom, Captain Atom/Power Girl/GL John/Starfire (at the same time), etc? You're ignoring them because they rip your argument to pieces. Go figure. Superman's speed completely out guns both Hulk and Doom, it's not even funny. Anybody thinking logically about this fight could see that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well then, that ends this debate.

No, actually it doesn't. He does it on a regular enough basis to where it's logical to use it in a debate.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If he can, he doesn't like to.

Yeah, he's said that he doesn't. However, he does it all the time, so what you're thinking is simply a fallacy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So he'd probably avoid it.

Not really.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So what's the difference in this fight?

You're completely ignoring the other stuff Superman can do in a fight. He isn't just a person like the Hulk, with super speed.

He can vibrate his molecules to go completely intangible:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg

Hey, and guess what? There's also invisibility:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermangoininvisible.jpg

Heat vision enought to blow up a planet.

And there's always T-Vo:
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo23kw.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo31hz.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torquasmvo4po.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=speed6gj.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo8tc.jpg

Absorbing "bio-energy":
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvol2007p20ne7.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvol2007p21pt6.jpg

Sonic attacks that can destroy a city

etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So 7/10 Hulk and Doom. Check.

Please, you're dilusional.

(Btw, sorry if I'm coming off a bit strong. I mean no disrespect )

Originally posted by lando005
honestly now in the world they live in you dont think someone of doom's intellignce hasnt already taken precautions agains emps? doom who comes up with near flawless plans, doom who has ruled the world multipule times over and has upsured the powers of cosmic beings?

Yeah... speculation on your part.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BTW, the whole point about diamteric magnetism and its utilities was thoroughly debunked in another Magneto vs. thread. If I remember correctly, all organic molecules are affected by magnetism, but diametric magnetism is the weakest form of all. The most anybody's been able to do is levitate a frog. Woopie.

Magneto can create incredibly strong magnetic fields that can allow him control of anything he pleases.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Magic > Magneto

Hey, Reed made a device to pwn Mags in one day

You dont think Doom would have an even more advanced device in his armor?!?

Yeah, kind of like how Mjolnir is > Magneto.... oh, wait.... WHAT!!!??? AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/MightilyOats/Magneto87.jpg

And Doom doesn't have any prep time.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah... speculation on your part.
first off that bio-energy leaching post u put us was dut to the fact that it was solar energy

on to business at hand specualtion? you mean to tell me doom hasnt conquered the earh multipule time? you mean to tell me doon hasnt stolen the powers of the silver surver galatcus or the beyonder?.... riiiiight

Originally posted by lando005
first off that bio-energy leaching post u put us was dut to the fact that it was solar energy

Did you actually read the scan? He absorbed her "BIO-ENERGY" and then converted that into solar radiation. READ.

Originally posted by lando005
on to business at hand specualtion? you mean to tell me doom hasnt conquered the earh multipule time? you mean to tell me doon hasnt stolen the powers of the silver surver galatcus or the beyonder?.... riiiiight

*yawn*

All that you mentioned he did w/ prep.

Originally posted by batdude123
*yawn*

All that you mentioned he did w/ prep.
and he hasnt already preped his armour from magnetic assults long ago?....
*yawn* i think i'm done now

Originally posted by lando005
and he hasnt already preped his armour from magnetic assults long ago?....
*yawn* i think i'm done now

Unless you can actually show me some EVIDENCE of him prepping for an electromagnetic pulse, you're statements hold absolutely NO ground.

I'M done here...

Go ahead and post the contexts of each of those feats. I'll show you what I mean by momentum. I agree his acceleration is astonishing. But on a battlefield, he gets to supersonic speeds at best when he comes into contact with a target. The simplest illustration is 'Sacrifice.' DD just ripped Lois apart. Supes speedblitzed Wonderwoman. You see glass breaking from a sonic boom. Moments later he gets enough speed to start accelerating towards the sun in moments. But the speed at the start of this 'speedblitz' when he actualyl makes contact with WW? Supersonic at best. You've never refuted this at all in any of your so-called 'speedblitzes.'

Not to mention that every single 'speedblitz' you've referred to have not been used in the way you want him to use it. They're speed feats at best. The 'speedblitz' you want him to do is to accelerate right into the Hulk or Dr. Doom for damage. Too bad I've the only one who's actually described instances of this tactic this entire time. Name me other times he's started from a deadstart on a battlefield and accelerated straight into an enemy at the speeds you're referring to as a tactic or a desperate measure or a finishing move. ANYTHING.

Not to mention that while you continue to believe I've not refuted your examples, you still post no context. And let me do some pointing as well. Why didn't Superman blow through Wonderwoman in 'Sacrifice' at such astonishing speeds considering that was probably the best situation he'd ever do it? Bloodlusted, Doomsday durability and danger, no idea of innocents around in his illusions...

Hmph. Also, why didn't Superman save those militants in Superman #207? Wanna know his exact quote? "Six-hundred seventy-two mph. That's the speed of a bullet fired from an M-60. It's been said that I'm faster than a speeding bullet. And I am. But sometimes... being faster than a speeding bullet... is not fast enough." Result? Several dozen dead militants as the bullets hit their targets a split instant before Superman can get there. How do you explain that? Before you start emphasizing that my ship is leaking water, especially when you don't post context, you might want to notice that the ship you're standing on is halfway sunk already. With all due respect.

EDIT: Lastly, show me where Magneto manipulates non metallic objects as freely as he pleases using diametric magnetism.

Originally posted by batdude123
Unless you can actually show me some EVIDENCE of him prepping for an electromagnetic pulse, you're statements hold absolutely NO ground.

I'M done here... this is dr doom we're talking about he's not some halfwit scientest who over looks obvious weaknesses like you would make him out to be the man knows all too well what kind of world he lives in he'ld be a fool not to modify his armor to counteract basic attack like emps against it

ofcourse we all know the super genious dr doom wouldnt protect a metal suit from magnitizm or electronics from an emp pulse

hulk and doom but the champion would beat all 4 them

How about this for a speed feat?

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5899/supespeed6kt.jpg

BTW, thanks for providing me context for your speed feats. Oh whoops... you still haven't. Nice to see when my illustration encapsulates what you're debating skills amount to that you have to resort to ignoring it rather then addressing it. I have that effect on people. It's called shutting people up and making them move on. This is point one where you fail. You can rectify this by giving me context of those speed feats, which I've repeatedly asked for. That way, I can analyze them in the same way you have. If not, you fail.

And now you're apparently agreeing that Superman needs momentum to reach top speeds... but that momentum is instantaneous. I've been attacking this premise from the very start and you keep pointing to average speeds or, "Well if he can reach those speeds, his acceleration must be instantaneous." You know what that is? That's assuming your conclusion before you prove it. Its the most basic form of logical fallacy. This is point two where you fail. You can rectify this by showing me instances where he is able to reach those speeds ".000000001 seconds" from a dead start. If you can't, you're simply assuming and you fail.

So Superman didn't really 'speedblitz' Wonderwoman. Also, Superman not being able to stop people from being shot... that is no indication that his speed has limits. Plot device. Yeah, that's it. I guess 'Sacrifice' (only one of the most highly anticipated superhero bouts in DC history and crucial event leading to Infinite Crisis) is pure crap. Oh and writer Brian Azzarello is a complete douschebag and inferior in Superman knowledge to you. Superman couldn't save the people from being shot and he said, "... not fast enough." He was actually lying, he thought it'd be neat to have people die and/or big oversight in DC continuity. Those editors suck. Sure it happens. Lovely how it happened very recently, in very popular stories and it happened twice. But according to you, they don't count because your examples are somehow better than mine? This is point three where you fail. I can reconcile your speed feats with my own examples and you can't do the same. All that you are essentially doing is assuming your examples are better writing and mine are bad writing. You can rectify this by reconciling my examples or just admitting that I can come up with a solution and you can't.

With reference to Magneto scans, I see where you pointed out that he takes apart the missiles. And although you didn't answer the glaring fact that he had to use steel girders to destroy the helicopters, I can still argue the point. Name me any guidance system or trigger for a missile's payload that doesn't use some amount of metal? Computer transistors require electricity and electricity requires conduits. Those conduits are made of metal. Triggers that arm payloads require a switch, which requires electricity which again requires conduits.

What does this all mean? That most of the missile's chassis was composed of plastic and ceramic, but it still had metal components in it which he manipulated. This is totally consistent with his line about the plastic and ceramic reducing their vulnerability to my magnetic powers and not nullifying them. Either way, even granting your statement about him using pure diametric magnetism to manipulate the ceramic, thats a pretty low end feat. He couldn't do the same with the helicopter apparently so he's limited to small objects at best. And where exactly is he manipulating plastics in the second scan? You mean when he tosses Strucker a few feet? Or when he levitates Xavier? Yeah, I'm sure that level feat will surely help him against Dr. Doom.

Or this?

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1981/speed35ft.jpg

And this

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8084/speed8wu.jpg

Originally posted by bean_machine
How about this for a speed feat?

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5899/supespeed6kt.jpg

^^^^

Speed feat

Originally posted by bean_machine
How about this for a speed feat?

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5899/supespeed6kt.jpg So? How long did it take for Lois to say her dialogue as Superman zoomed away?. Just say the words she spoke outloud. Two seconds about. She pauses her sentence and opens the door? It was not instantaneous. Do you see the elipses? The little dots? That means a pause. If it were at-that-moment-instananeous-unbroken-dialogue, they would have used a hypen dash. They didn't. That's a pause. I'm guessing she paused after the "see you..." for a second, opened the door which took one second and saw Clark inside. Four seconds of supersonic speed jump and acceleration time for him to be inside? Sounds pretty consistent with what I've been saying.

Well this at least proves that Superman does not accelerate at his full potential on Earth so as to not cause damage.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7...52719pm2ys.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8...52832pm2wo.jpg

Originally posted by bean_machine
Or this?

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1981/speed35ft.jpg

And this

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8084/speed8wu.jpg These two speed feats are quite pathetic. I don't even see the start of his speed in the first scan. He may very well have accelerated for several seconds before reaching those speeds. The second scan gives me absolutely no time frame as to the start of his flight to his landing. So I have no idea how fast he was. I'll guess four or five seconds? Again, I've yet to see this acceleration to light speeds and faster in .0000001 seconds from a dead start.

How fast does Supes have to accelerate to be able to do this. I mean he stole this trick from Flash.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Originally posted by bean_machine
Well this at least proves that Superman does not accelerate at his full potential on Earth so as to not cause damage.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7...52719pm2ys.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8...52832pm2wo.jpg For whatever reason, the second and third link does not work. I own that comic from the first scan though. I'd like you to also notice and scan the page directly before that page. I wan't you to scan the bottom four panels. Notice how much dialogue goes by from when Jimmy hits his signal watch in the bottom second panel and the actual shot? This is what is said between the signal being hit and the shot,

*Jimmy hits signal, Superman hears it*

Jimmy: "Last time I checked, drug trafficking wasn't a recognized political movement. And if by "enemy" you mean the women and children who live in the mountains, I'm not surprised. Superman's never been big on genocide."

Terrorist: "One thing I learned during my time in California is that everything is negotiable. Maybe the body of his good friend will convince him to open a dialogue."

Lois: "Oh my god, Jimmy!"

Gun: "BLAM!"

*Superman makes it in time to catch the bullet without holding back*

How do I know he's not holding back like usual? Notice also in the page directly following your scan, the first caption bubble indicates that he wasn't holding back his speed. Scan that one too for everyone to see. Yeah, context helps. That dialogue is several seconds long. Thank you for posting that comic scene and reminding me, you've just improved my examples by a great deal. Writer analysis into speed, his timing and what happens when he doesn't hold back. That's three times. Thanks again!

How fast do you have to accelerate to become intangible?

Originally posted by bean_machine
How fast does Supes have to accelerate to be able to do this. I mean he stole this trick from Flash.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg I don't know how instantaneous his acceleration has to be. The very first panel already shows him going at those speeds to be intangible, how the hell am I supposed to judge how quickly he got to that state if I can't even see how he began?! CONTEXT PLEASE.
Originally posted by bean_machine
How fast do you have to accelerate to become intangible? Maybe you don't quite understand. Just look at the highway and show me a car that is currently going 60 mph. Now you're asking me how quickly did he accelerate to reach that plateau of 60 mph. How in the jimmeny cricket's can I fugging tell?! He could have accelerated at 1 mph every minute from the start to slowly and eventually get to 60 mph or he could have peeled rubber and gone from 0-60 in 6 seconds. I CAN'T TELL. NO CONTEXT. I didn't see what happened from the start when he was standing still to the time he's actually going at those speeds. WTH.

BTW, since you seem intent on supporting batdude123's 'speedblitz' and instant acceleration theories, why don't you try cracking the points that I just made about some of your recent scans?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
5) Caught 500 aliens in mid air before they could react? It took him two-and-a-half seconds to do so. Still started at supersonic speeds.

From Tron in the Forum Rules thread

Concerning Superspeed

It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

32 Meters per Second = 71.5527950310559 Miles per Hour

and

150 Meters per Second = 335.40372670807454 Miles per Hour

Starting at supersonic speeds is still good enough to speedblitz Doom. Even if the speed of though is 150 meters per second, which is about 335 miles per hour, Superman has enough time to get to Doom before he registers a thought unless they start over 350 meters (a very minimal estimate) apart from each other, which was not specified at the beginning of the thread so. You don't need instant light speed acceleration to speedblitz somebody.

Another thing, Superman can reach the earth's atmosphere within a few seconds and then use his heat vision to blow the shit out of the planet. I don't know much about Doom, so someone let me know if Doom can survive the destruction of the earth, with his magic shields? After that, Supes flies towards the Hulk and throws him into the sun, since Hulk has not flight capabilities.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard on this forum: Superman not being able to accelerate fast enough to speedblitz Hulk and Dr. Doom.

Originally posted by Tron
Well if you ask that, then you gotta ask why they punk Galactus also, and why Uatu the Watcher asks them for help.

But of course, I assume you know very little of Doom, so for your viewing pleasure; he's power drained the Surfer, Galactus, Watchers
and the Beyonder, his having outright conquered marvel earth and given it back out of boredom, his having made the heroes reborn earth into his personal fiefdom, having survived shots from Thanos using the power gem, having caught Captain America's shield mid throw, having killed a lion when unarmed and unarmoured, having managed to put one over on Mephisto himself, having immunized himself to Magneto's powers, having built a time machine, having built devices that let him move around in frozen time, having mastered a technique that lets him switch bodies with targets at will, being considered a legitimate candidate for Sorceror Supreme of the Earth dimension, having succeeded in developing a cure for the Thing's condition, having taken mental attacks from the Overmind and a Purple Man who had enslaved the entire planet, having thrown down in personal combat with Adam Warlock and the Magus...

So, still think Doom's the first to die?

Yeah but doesn't he need prep? Dr Doom most likely could beat Magneto if he knew he was going to face him, but if he had to fight him out of the blue he does not have a magneto defeating device on him and he is wearing metal!

Hulk goes out first.

Doom is the only opposition on the Hulk team.

They double team Doom.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BTW, thanks for providing me context for your speed feats. Oh whoops... you still haven't. Nice to see when my illustration encapsulates what you're debating skills amount to that you have to resort to ignoring it rather then addressing it. I have that effect on people. It's called shutting people up and making them move on. This is point one where you fail. You can rectify this by giving me context of those speed feats, which I've repeatedly asked for. That way, I can analyze them in the same way you have. If not, you fail.

And now you're apparently agreeing that Superman needs momentum to reach top speeds... but that momentum is instantaneous. I've been attacking this premise from the very start and you keep pointing to average speeds or, "Well if he can reach those speeds, his acceleration must be instantaneous." You know what that is? That's assuming your conclusion before you prove it. Its the most basic form of logical fallacy. This is point two where you fail. You can rectify this by showing me instances where he is able to reach those speeds ".000000001 seconds" from a dead start. If you can't, you're simply assuming and you fail.

So Superman didn't really 'speedblitz' Wonderwoman. Also, Superman not being able to stop people from being shot... that is no indication that his speed has limits. Plot device. Yeah, that's it. I guess 'Sacrifice' (only one of the most highly anticipated superhero bouts in DC history and crucial event leading to Infinite Crisis) is pure crap. Oh and writer Brian Azzarello is a complete douschebag and inferior in Superman knowledge to you. Superman couldn't save the people from being shot and he said, "... not fast enough." He was actually lying, he thought it'd be neat to have people die and/or big oversight in DC continuity. Those editors suck. Sure it happens. Lovely how it happened very recently, in very popular stories and it happened twice. But according to you, they don't count because your examples are somehow better than mine? This is point three where you fail. I can reconcile your speed feats with my own examples and you can't do the same. All that you are essentially doing is assuming your examples are better writing and mine are bad writing. You can rectify this by reconciling my examples or just admitting that I can come up with a solution and you can't.

*sigh* Your post is completely ridiculous. You're hanging on to an absolutely USELESS point. Every single speedster has to accelerate to a certain point in order to reach top speeds. That's common sense. Superman CAN accelerate to said speeds faster than either Doom OR Hulk could even register. That's why he can SPEEDBLITZ. Just like Flash, Diana, Zoom, Northstar, Kid Flash, etc. etc.

Listen to what you're saying about his acceleration. That it takes him a couple seconds to reach top speed.... The problem with that is, it only took a couple seconds to reach the sun from what I've told you before. Are you saying that Superman now stands there for two seconds, and then TELEPORTS??? You have the mental capacity of a three-year-old with ADD. You can't seem to drop the fact that his acceleration rate IS faster than either Hulk or Doom could sense/hit/see.

Exactly how fast do you have to be to speedblitz Captain Atom, GL John, Power Girl, and Starfire all at once, before they could even do anything about it?
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout6pd.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout29qk.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout32ft.jpg

Here, making Mongul look like a fool w/ his speed:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4214/superman20speed20vs20mongul202.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg

Or how about here where he completely annihilates an Imperiex Probe
with his speed:
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingathighspeeds7l.jpg

Here's also a nifty little scan. Catching all the debris piece by piece before it hit anybody.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5242877

Apparently Superman is fast enough in combat to sock a blitzing Zoom out cold:
http://img238.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e2supermanpwningzoomae9.jpg

Here he shows his hand speed by vibrating his arm so fast that it shatters Cyborg Superman to pieces:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Superman/SupermanandCyborg.jpg

Yeah, you still haven't covered this one either. He moved so fast (in a short burst while RUNNING, no less.... he's MUCH faster in the air) that the people couldn't even register him as a freakin' BLUR!
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7016886

And don't try and tell me that Hulk is immune to a speedblitz either. Here, Northstar completely makes a fool out of Hulk using his speed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AF29.jpg

I find your attempts at debating Superman's speed AVERAGE at best. All you've got to hang on is your half-assed theory that it would take Superman a couple of seconds to build up momentum to where he could successfully speedblitz someone. Well, guess what? That ain't the case, son...

And you have YET to counter Superman's other powers that would completely destroy Hulk and Doom as well.

Intangibility:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Invisibility:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermangoininvisible.jpg

T-Vo; which would end the fight in and of itself. Once Superman draws them into his own astral plane, he is essentially GOD in there. They are under HIS rules, and Superman can make anything possible there. Even their own powers fall subject against them. Don't believe me?
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo23kw.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo31hz.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torquasmvo4po.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=speed6gj.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vo8tc.jpg

Or how about him absorbing their bio-energies?
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvol2007p20ne7.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvol2007p21pt6.jpg

Please, this is just pathetic. Superman and Magneto 10/10.

Hulk and Doom win. Superman can't accelerate fast enough to speedblitz. Doom will be able to counter any magnetic pulses.

Yep, 'cause we all know Hulk is TEH STRONGEREST!!!!111!!!11

if you belive doom hasnt prpep a metallic armor from the most basic of metallic weaknesses you dont know doom

isint doom immune to magneto?

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk and Doom win. Superman can't accelerate fast enough to speedblitz.

What proof do you have of this?

Even if Superman was only supersonic he could still speedblitz within a reasonable range.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, kind of like how Mjolnir is > Magneto.... oh, wait.... WHAT!!!??? AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/MightilyOats/Magneto87.jpg

And Doom doesn't have any prep time.

Doom's magic >>> Mjolner

Mjolner is still a metal substance with no protection from Mags, so its still possible for Mags to manipulate it

Originally posted by Grimm22
Doom's magic >>> Mjolner

Mjolner is still a metal substance with no protection from Mags, so its still possible for Mags to manipulate it

That is why Superman goes after Doom first.

Point of the matter is, and really, stop posting speed feats. They're not 'speedblitzes.' Not at all. And yes, Flash can accelerate to his fastest speeds in .0000001 seconds IMHO, different than what Superman can do. If you could vizualize, yes, it is almost like one or two seconds of supersonic speeds and then ZOOM light+ speeds. Think of a sports car peeling rubber, it spends a second or two trying to gain grip with its tires and inches along the street and then ZOOM, it shoots forward once the tires have gained grip and the full acceleration potential is realized. I'm not saying the physics are the same, but the concept is. He can start forward at supersonic speeds and needs just those extra seconds to hit the pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds. On a regular battlefield, before he could reach those pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds he'd have already hit Hulk or Dr. Doom at supersonic speeds before being able to reach pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds. Unless he backed up and started from a distance...

That's my whole point. He'd hit them at supersonic speeds if he used a 'supersonic blitz' from the start, like he hit Wonderwoman, like he did in Superman #207 or Superman #217. Point is, I think Dr. Doom's forcefield, though severely taxed, could withstand a 'supersonic blitz.' I also believe Hulk could withstand a 'supersonic blitz.' Same way Wonderwoman took his 'supersonic blitz' in 'Sacrifice.' Unless now we believe Hulk's or Dr. Doom's forcefields are far below Wonderwoman's durability, I don't think Superman's 'supersonic blitzes' will end the battle the instant it starts. That's the main point of the 'speedblitz' debate.

That's something Flash could do with a true 'pwnerz speedblitz.' Not Superman. Now, what were to happen if Superman flew far away enough to get his several second acceleration time needed? Yeah, he'd severely screw up Hulk. I think he might even be able to blow Hulk in half. Hulk would heal if given a chance, but only if Superman or Dr. Doom gives him that chance. If Superman did it to Doom? Doom's computer systems in his armor would see it coming. Those few seconds would be more than enough time for Doom and his computer systems to calculate his tactic. Battle stipulations are that everybody has basic knowledge of each other. Doom would see it coming and use magic bonds, a magic forcefield, short range teleportation, etc and Superman would either miss or end up hurting himself.

After that, its anybody's ballgame. Valid tactic for sure. Which is why I give Supes and Mags 3/10. That's all I'm arguing. Superman can reach those speeds. He can't do it in .000001 seconds though from a deadstart. Nothing I've seen indicates this. In fact, every posted scan with context indicates the opposite. 'Speedblitz' is overrated. It should be called 'supersonic blitz' when Superman uses it, cuz Speed Force heroes are the only ones who can reach pwnerz speed levels in .000001 seconds. Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant to me. I've made up my mind until you show me somewhere, where it is absolutely clear he can reach his top speeds .000001 seconds from a deadstart. I've posted three examples (with bean_machine's help) where from a dead start, he only reaches supersonic speeds in instances where you would expect him to go all out: 1) Bloodlusted, with no innocents around in his mind against Doomsday who just killed Lois in 'Sacrifice;' 2) trying to save militants who were being summarily executed in Superman #208; and 3) saving Jimmy Olsen and it is explicitly stated that he is not holding back in Superman #217.

To batdude123: If you want to continue arguing the point that he can reach pwnerz 'speedblitz' levels in .0000001 seconds from a deadstart, all I need is a scan where it shows quite obviously that he can do that. It's all I've been asking for a while now. All you keep doing is posting 'speed feats' that provide me no information as to how quickly he accelerates from a deadstart, it only shows what speed he's reached, not how fast he got to it. I've provided three examples proving he can't accelerate to those pwnerz speed feat levels in .000001 seconds. You continue to allege that I'm ignoring your examples and I'm going to begin insulting you at this point. You're being stupid. You're arguing semantics about how everybody needs to accelerate as if that proves Superman can accelerate .000001 seconds from the start. You allege that its stupid to believe Superman starts at supersonic speeds and then teleports?! into superlight speeds? Yet, WTH are you arguing, that he can teleport to superlight speeds from a deadstart? Then you start ranting about Superman's other abilities as if that was even part of our side debate at all. You're grasping at something I haven't even addressed and trying to use it against me. Its like blaming me for not taking out the garbage when all we've been arguing about is cleaning the kitchen. Shut up now. You're absolutely blinded by some fanboyish attitude. You're non-context examples are apparently good enough but my fully contexted examples are not. You suck at debating and I've lost my patience. Bean_dude gets it and he only started in this argument a few posts ago. Next time I need advice as to how to completely ignore scans and arguments, I'll come to you. Until then, shut the f()ck up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Point of the matter is, and really, stop posting speed feats. They're not 'speedblitzes.' Not at all. And yes, Flash can accelerate to his fastest speeds in .0000001 seconds IMHO, different than what Superman can do. If you could vizualize, yes, it is almost like one or two seconds of supersonic speeds and then ZOOM light+ speeds. Think of a sports car peeling rubber, it spends a second or two trying to gain grip with its tires and inches along the street and then ZOOM, it shoots forward once the tires have gained grip and the full acceleration potential is realized. I'm not saying the physics are the same, but the concept is. He can start forward at supersonic speeds and needs just those extra seconds to hit the pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds. On a regular battlefield, before he could reach those pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds he'd have already hit Hulk or Dr. Doom at supersonic speeds before being able to reach pwnerz 'speed feat' speeds. Unless he backed up and started from a distance...

That's my whole point. He'd hit them at supersonic speeds if he used a 'supersonic blitz' from the start, like he hit Wonderwoman, like he did in Superman #207 or Superman #217. Point is, I think Dr. Doom's forcefield, though severely taxed, could withstand a 'supersonic blitz.' I also believe Hulk could withstand a 'supersonic blitz.' Same way Wonderwoman took his 'supersonic blitz' in 'Sacrifice.' Unless now we believe Hulk's or Dr. Doom's forcefields are far below Wonderwoman's durability, I don't think Superman's 'supersonic blitzes' will end the battle the instant it starts. That's the main point of the 'speedblitz' debate.

That's something Flash could do with a true 'pwnerz speedblitz.' Not Superman. Now, what were to happen if Superman flew far away enough to get his several second acceleration time needed? Yeah, he'd severely screw up Hulk. I think he might even be able to blow Hulk in half. Hulk would heal if given a chance, but only if Superman or Dr. Doom gives him that chance. If Superman did it to Doom? Doom's computer systems in his armor would see it coming. Those few seconds would be more than enough time for Doom and his computer systems to calculate his tactic. Battle stipulations are that everybody has basic knowledge of each other. Doom would see it coming and use magic bonds, a magic forcefield, short range teleportation, etc and Superman would either miss or end up hurting himself.

After that, its anybody's ballgame. Valid tactic for sure. Which is why I give Supes and Mags 3/10. That's all I'm arguing. Superman can reach those speeds. He can't do it in .000001 seconds though from a deadstart. Nothing I've seen indicates this. In fact, every posted scan with context indicates the opposite. 'Speedblitz' is overrated. It should be called 'supersonic blitz' when Superman uses it, cuz Speed Force heroes are the only ones who can reach pwnerz speed levels in .000001 seconds. Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant to me. I've made up my mind until you show me somewhere, where it is absolutely clear he can reach his top speeds .000001 seconds from a deadstart. I've posted three examples (with bean_machine's help) where from a dead start, he only reaches supersonic speeds in instances where you would expect him to go all out: 1) Bloodlusted, with no innocents around in his mind against Doomsday who just killed Lois in 'Sacrifice;' 2) trying to save militants who were being summarily executed in Superman #208; and 3) saving Jimmy Olsen and it is explicitly stated that he is not holding back in Superman #217.

To batdude123: If you want to continue arguing the point that he can reach pwnerz 'speedblitz' levels in .0000001 seconds from a deadstart, all I need is a scan where it shows quite obviously that he can do that. It's all I've been asking for a while now. All you keep doing is posting 'speed feats' that provide me no information as to how quickly he accelerates from a deadstart, it only shows what speed he's reached, not how fast he got to it. I've provided three examples proving he can't accelerate to those pwnerz speed feat levels in .000001 seconds. You continue to allege that I'm ignoring your examples and I'm going to begin insulting you at this point. You're being stupid. You're arguing semantics about how everybody needs to accelerate as if that proves Superman can accelerate .000001 seconds from the start. You allege that its stupid to believe Superman starts at supersonic speeds and then teleports?! into superlight speeds? Yet, WTH are you arguing, that he can teleport to superlight speeds from a deadstart? Then you start ranting about Superman's other abilities as if that was even part of our side debate at all. You're grasping at something I haven't even addressed and trying to use it against me. Its like blaming me for not taking out the garbage when all we've been arguing about is cleaning the kitchen. Shut up now. You're absolutely blinded by some fanboyish attitude. You're non-context examples are apparently good enough but my fully contexted examples are not. You suck at debating and I've lost my patience. Bean_dude gets it and he only started in this argument a few posts ago. Next time I need advice as to how to completely ignore scans and arguments, I'll come to you. Until then, shut the f()ck up.

*yawn*

I'm not going to even bother considering it's all a bunch of gibberish. Whether he can hit passed light speed from a deadstart in .0000001 seconds is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. I think you missed my point. The acceleration to the point of a couple hundred times the speed of light in .0000001 was me being overzealous. However, what I've been telling you is that it DOES NOT MATTER ONE SINGLE BIT. Superman CAN and would speedblitz them successfully faster than either could react. You've seen the scan of Northstar messing up Hulk with a speedblitz from before... now multiply Northstar's strength by quintillions of tons, and you'd get Superman. Hulk dies first from a successful speedblitz by Superman, then Doom follows closely after that. Superman and Magneto 10/10.

Originally posted by batdude123
*yawn*

I'm not going to even bother considering it's all a bunch of gibberish. Whether he can hit passed light speed from a deadstart in .0000001 seconds is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. I think you missed my point. The acceleration to the point of a couple hundred times the speed of light in .0000001 was me being overzealous. However, what I've been telling you is that it DOES NOT MATTER ONE SINGLE BIT. Superman CAN and would speedblitz them successfully faster than either could react. You've seen the scan of Northstar messing up Hulk with a speedblitz from before... now multiply Northstar's strength by quintillions of tons, and you'd get Superman. Hulk dies first from a successful speedblitz by Superman, then Doom follows closely after that. Superman and Magneto 10/10. i think he was mostly agreeing with you.... he just wanted to know how fast could superman go from a dead start it's really kinda off topic

Originally posted by lando005
i think he was mostly agreeing with you.... he just wanted to know how fast could superman go from a dead start it's really kinda off topic

I understand that, however it doesn't take a couple of seconds to reach said speeds like he's saying. It took him a TOTAL of two seconds to reach the sun itself. What he's getting at is a bit of a fallacy.

Anyway, Superman speedblitzes Doom and Hulk ftw.

There are plenty of ways for the team 2 to win.

Superman could just go and have a sun bath, he could do some serious orbital bombarding with mega size asteroids and moons. Yet he could even speedblitz all of them into oblivion.

magneto wouldn't know what would of happened... he's be like "superman let's... oh you've beaten them already... oh well I'll say I beat them on my own"

Originally posted by MattDay
magneto wouldn't know what would of happened... he's be like "superman let's... oh you've beaten them already... oh well I'll say I beat them on my own"

yes

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BTW, thanks for providing me context for your speed feats. Oh whoops... you still haven't. Nice to see when my illustration encapsulates what you're debating skills amount to that you have to resort to ignoring it rather then addressing it. I have that effect on people. It's called shutting people up and making them move on. This is point one where you fail. You can rectify this by giving me context of those speed feats, which I've repeatedly asked for. That way, I can analyze them in the same way you have. If not, you fail.

And now you're apparently agreeing that Superman needs momentum to reach top speeds... but that momentum is instantaneous. I've been attacking this premise from the very start and you keep pointing to average speeds or, "Well if he can reach those speeds, his acceleration must be instantaneous." You know what that is? That's assuming your conclusion before you prove it. Its the most basic form of logical fallacy. This is point two where you fail. You can rectify this by showing me instances where he is able to reach those speeds ".000000001 seconds" from a dead start. If you can't, you're simply assuming and you fail.




I hope this helps
First lets assume that superman generates a constant force as he travels all his might (since He doesn't get stronger when using all his might). This means he should have a constant acceleration.
If superman can fly to jupiter in about 3 minutes. Then he can travel about 4.2AU (This is the closest distance jupiter and earth can be and 1AU=93000000 miles or 93000000x5280ft) in about 3 minutes. So d=.5a t^2 (assumming beginning distance and velocity are zero)which implies that a=2d/t^2= 22,915,200,000ft per sec^2. But t=sqrt(2d/a)=.000004sec if d=20ft
Thus if they start 20ft from each other then superman can cover this in .00004 secs (or 4 hundred-thousandths of a sec). Where as a 600mph bullet can cover 20ft in .023 sec (t=d/r).
So superman can cover a distance of 20ft over 540times faster than that of a bullet.
Man that is fast. His speedblitz rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
I hope this helps
First lets assume that superman generates a constant force as he travels all his might (since He doesn't get stronger when using all his might). This means he should have a constant acceleration.
If superman can fly to jupiter in about 3 minutes. Then he can travel about 4.2AU (This is the closest distance jupiter and earth can be and 1AU=93000000 miles or 93000000x5280ft) in about 3 minutes. So d=.5a t^2 (assumming beginning distance and velocity are zero)which implies that a=2d/t^2= 22,915,200,000ft per sec^2. But t=sqrt(2d/a)=.000004sec if d=20ft
Thus if they start 20ft from each other then superman can cover this in .00004 secs (or 4 hundred-thousandths of a sec). Where as a 600mph bullet can cover 20ft in .023 sec (t=d/r).
So superman can cover a distance of 20ft over 540times faster than that of a bullet.
Man that is fast. His speedblitz rules.
applying real-life physics to comic books is always going to be shady. Flash? Hulk ?


O btw : Superman doens't START at fullspeed at 20ft distance (therefore the math isn't exactly correct), he has to accelerate. All those needlessly long equations sure were impressive though!

Magneto and SM win