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It seems there's a very large portion of KMC members who are very inknowledgeable of DC comics and seems to hate DC comics with a passion. Why? Discuss.

i read them, but I dont like DC all that much because they overpower their cvharacters way to much imo

I have very few Dc comics. I don't dislike them, in fact one of my favourite storyline's is a DC one (Batman Hush) However, I generally prefer Marvel because of the Characters eg. Spidey, Deadpool etc and because of the storylines eg. Ultimates the skrull alien invasion storyline and Daredevil Guardian Devil.

I never understood why DC is considered overpowered. Compared to Marvel I'd say they're underpowered. For example, Superman is considered overpowered by haters everywhere but people like Thor and Silver Surfer aren't?

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
I never understood why DC is considered overpowered. Compared to Marvel I'd say they're underpowered. For example, Superman is considered overpowered by haters everywhere but people like Thor and Silver Surfer aren't?

I really do believe that D.C. characters are on the whole a bit more powerful than Marvel characters. But Marvel is definately catching up !!!!!!!!!!!

I dont tghink anyone hates D.C. i just think that Marvel is far more popular on this forum.

With exception of the Mutants i dont like the way the powers are distrubuted . (Not with street level characters) Lots ave too many abilities. Like Thors hammer; what exactly Can't it do ???????? Cosmic being can re arrange matter and so on, yet their battles mainly consist of colourful energy blasts.

I think its because many people are young at KMC and find DC plots difficult generally when compared to 616.

Originally posted by Draco69
It seems there's a very large portion of KMC members who are very inknowledgeable of DC comics and seems to hate DC comics with a passion. Why? Discuss.

I love DC, and think the writing is better.

Marvel has the "cool character" factor.

I think overall that they are a tie.

But if marvel keeps up the secondary mutations...

nobdy hates dc. who says that? its only a few fringe ppl who's hatin'cuz they know DC is uber powrful. also DC has always had darker, better, twisting and more thought provoking plot lines. other than "wow! we live in the same city has gods, aliens, cyborgs and genticaly enhanced beings but we're hated cuz we're mutants(sob) must.....get... them... to...love...us...by...selflessly...saving...thier...worthless...lives....and getting...no....gratitude.....in return...AaHHHH!!!!!"

or...."geee. i have a hot supermodel/actress wife at home, but instead of bouncing that ass every chance i get, i run off at the sound of the faintest siren becuase...saving...lives....is...more...important....than....working....on...my...mariiage....Aaahhaa!!!"

I guess if each universe is based on total bench press then yeah, DC is overpowered.

Originally posted by manjaro
nobdy hates dc. who says that? its only a few fringe ppl who's hatin'cuz they know DC is uber powrful. also DC has always had darker, better, twisting and more thought provoking plot lines. other than "wow! we live in the same city has gods, aliens, cyborgs and genticaly enhanced beings but we're hated cuz we're mutants(sob) must.....get... them... to...love...us...by...selflessly...saving...thier...worthless...lives....and getting...no....gratitude.....in return...AaHHHH!!!!!"

or...."geee. i have a hot supermodel/actress wife at home, but instead of bouncing that ass every chance i get, i run off at the sound of the faintest siren becuase...saving...lives....is...more...important....than....working....on...my...mariiage....Aaahhaa!!!" lol

" bouncing that ass"

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I think its because many people are young at KMC and find DC plots difficult generally when compared to 616.

I like DC but this is the best plot they did.......


http://www.superdickery.com/dick/112.html

lol

Well, it may be because people like Marvel more (overall) but that doesn't mean they loathe DC. I sure don't. I read Batman, Superman and GL comics. I do like Marvel better however.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I think its because many people are young at KMC and find DC plots difficult generally when compared to 616.
Actually, quite the opposite.

D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.

There are hardly ever any type of conflicting (well, definitely none pre crisis).
Galactus is a prime example, he was one of, if not the first character who was a villain, but not really.
Yes he killed everyone with no remorse, but he didn't have a choice, he wasn't evil because he was above such terms.
D.C didn't have this, in D.C everything was cut and dry, black and white.
Only until recently did D.C realize no one relates to perfect heroes.
Most people outgrow D.C after they turn 15.

Spiderman is the average joe, Wolverine is totally conflicted and wasn't at first a superhero at all. Ironman was a alcoholic. Strange was too, plus he has to refuse to help non magic problems.

X-Men are the generic outcasts, you can replace "mutant" with what ever oppressed group you are. Watch X2 again, and during the discussion with Mr and Mrs. Drake replace the word "mutant" with anything, like gay. Try it out and see what I mean.

Yep. Mutant back then was equated to race. NOW it's equated to homosexuality.

Originally posted by long pig
Actually, quite the opposite.

D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.

There are hardly ever any type of conflicting (well, definitely none pre crisis).
Galactus is a prime example, he was one of, if not the first character who was a villain, but not really.
Yes he killed everyone with no remorse, but he didn't have a choice, he wasn't evil because he was above such terms.
D.C didn't have this, in D.C everything was cut and dry, black and white.
Only until recently did D.C realize no one relates to perfect heroes.
Most people outgrow D.C after they turn 15.

Spiderman is the average joe, Wolverine is totally conflicted and wasn't at first a superhero at all. Ironman was a alcoholic. Strange was too, plus he has to refuse to help non magic problems.

Good post!!

What REALLY annoys me is that many posters in the VERSUS forum create "Let's see a DC hero(s) get the crap pounded out of him by a hopelessly outmatched foe"

For god's sake when you pit beings like Set or the Eternals against someone like Superman you KNOW something is incredibly biased.

no doubt about it, draco. the other thing that confuses me - there were about 4 posts saying DC is overpowered, yet the majority of the threads created (that use characters that are approximately even in power levels) have the MARVEL character defeating the DC character.

what people fail to understand about the characters in dc is that they are iconic, a part of our culture and history. that can be both good and bad. the good thing is they are the originals. those who hold to tradition and a sense of . . . nostalgia, will forever love batman, wonderwoman, superman, aquaman. the BAD thing though is that because they were created first, others that followed were able to take the general idea of the characters and in SOME WAYS (in SOME eyes), make them better. marvel did this by granting their characters a 'never-before-achieved-up-til-that-time' level of 'humanity'. they saw what dc offered - god-like heroes, nearly infallible and unbeatable -- so they took things in a different direction. but had dc not paved the way for the medium, marvel may never have been what it is - IF it would have been at all.

seeing the success marvel was having with their 'human characters', dc was forced to change. but there was/is the problem - because their heroes ARE icons, how do they alter the characters WITHOUT fundamentally altering them?? they've struggled with it for decades now. have they fixed the problem and found a happy medium? i'm not sure. the quality of both story AND art has increased in the comic industry - it had to or it might not have survived. i've always enjoyed both, but they ARE distinct. i agree with long that marvel is more . . . complex, perhaps a bit more reflective of our world and its foibles/ perhaps that in itself is enough to explain why it is preferred - it is more easily related to. dc often tends to be a bit . . . simpler (though i think they have been muddying the waters more in the alst few years). but even if you DON'T enjoy dc, you should at least have respect for their history and acknowledge the PIVOTAL role characters like wonderwoman and superman played in the history of comics and beyond that, in popular culture itself.

end essay.

Originally posted by Draco69
What REALLY annoys me is that many posters in the VERSUS forum create "Let's see a DC hero(s) get the crap pounded out of him by a hopelessly outmatched foe"

For god's sake when you pit beings like Set or the Eternals against someone like Superman you KNOW something is incredibly biased. Understood completely, I hate biased "spite threads" or whatever they're called, where its like.

"insert character you hate here" threads.

Thats why the threads in comic versus suck mostly...

DC Universe Power wise is no comparison to Marvel with Living Tribunal Eternity Infinity Celestials Lord Chaos and Master Order, Galactus DC is a tick on a Blue Whale not enough power to even register

Originally posted by leonidas
no doubt about it, draco. the other thing that confuses me - there were about 4 posts saying DC is overpowered, yet the majority of the threads created (that use characters that are approximately even in power levels) have the MARVEL character defeating the DC character.

what people fail to understand about the characters in dc is that they are iconic, a part of our culture and history. that can be both good and bad. the good thing is they are the originals. those who hold to tradition and a sense of . . . nostalgia, will forever love batman, wonderwoman, superman, aquaman. the BAD thing though is that because they were created first, others that followed were able to take the general idea of the characters and in SOME WAYS (in SOME eyes), make them better. marvel did this by granting their characters a 'never-before-achieved-up-til-that-time' level of 'humanity'. they saw what dc offered - god-like heroes, nearly infallible and unbeatable -- so they took things in a different direction. but had dc not paved the way for the medium, marvel may never have been what it is - IF it would have been at all.

seeing the success marvel was having with their 'human characters', dc was forced to change. but there was/is the problem - because their heroes ARE icons, how do they alter the characters WITHOUT fundamentally altering them?? they've struggled with it for decades now. have they fixed the problem and found a happy medium? i'm not sure. the quality of both story AND art has increased in the comic industry - it had to or it might not have survived. i've always enjoyed both, but they ARE distinct. i agree with long that marvel is more . . . complex, perhaps a bit more reflective of our world and its foibles/ perhaps that in itself is enough to explain why it is preferred - it is more easily related to. dc often tends to be a bit . . . simpler (though i think they have been muddying the waters more in the alst few years). but even if you DON'T enjoy dc, you should at least have respect for their history and acknowledge the PIVOTAL role characters like wonderwoman and superman played in the history of comics and beyond that, in popular culture itself.

end essay.


Well said.

I agree totally.

I don't know a way they could make Superman more man and less super without basically losing what he is.

But until they do, most people who started off with Marve/x-men will probably never ever enjoy a Superman comic.

When people say "D.C is overpowered" they are partially right, seeing most of them read old pre-crisis issues and were like "WTF is this? He moved a planet out of the way of an astroid??"

Originally posted by long pig
Actually, quite the opposite.

D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.

There are hardly ever any type of conflicting (well, definitely none pre crisis).
Galactus is a prime example, he was one of, if not the first character who was a villain, but not really.
Yes he killed everyone with no remorse, but he didn't have a choice, he wasn't evil because he was above such terms.
D.C didn't have this, in D.C everything was cut and dry, black and white.
Only until recently did D.C realize no one relates to perfect heroes.
Most people outgrow D.C after they turn 15.

Spiderman is the average joe, Wolverine is totally conflicted and wasn't at first a superhero at all. Ironman was a alcoholic. Strange was too, plus he has to refuse to help non magic problems.


Sorry LP your wrong on this imo

Pre crisis DC was very similair to Marvel of the time and actually had probably more groundbreaking and angst, it certainly did shorly after retcon. To prove my point lets compare Angst, with big characters

At the time Marvel had a daring Iron man alcohol, X men and Spidey etc basically soap opera, Daredevil genius, Punisher extreme.

DC had pre crisis Swampthing - Alan Moores first DC work in 1983
LOSH e.g. Great Darkness saga etc. very dark
Teen Titans Perez and Wolfman rip off Claremont or do they? It was very similar to new Xmen but not convinced it was a complete rip off.
Shade - quirky extreme
Vigilante - violent


Directly after retcon

Doom Patrol - Crazy
Lobo - insane
Sandman - Boom
Hellraiser - Boom Boom
Swampthing gets darker still - Boom Boom Boom
Darkie Returns - Crash
Watchmen - Crash Bang Boom
etc etc etc etc etc

I'm sure I've missed a lot its all history

I rest my case -

Keep th faith

Stay Whirly

Most of the pre-crisis "angsty" characters were Marvel rip-offs, post-crisis they changed with the times to follow suit of Marvel.

It took D.C a long time to realize that times change, and they still haven't changed their core characters yet, at all.

Superman still can't intentionally do no wrong.
Batman still can do no wrong, even if it seems like he is, he really isn't.
Wonder Woman can do no wrong.
GL can do no wrong, even though he did wrong, it was right.
Flash has never done wrong.

D.C mostly is a time capsule to a time when grey never existed.

I actually like DC a LOT more than I like marvel

Originally posted by long pig
Most of the pre-crisis "angsty" characters were Marvel rip-offs, post-crisis they changed with the times to follow suit of Marvel.

It took D.C a long time to realize that times change, and they still haven't changed their core characters yet, at all.

Superman still can't intentionally do no wrong.
Batman still can do no wrong, even if it seems like he is, he really isn't.
Wonder Woman can do no wrong.
GL can do no wrong, even though he did wrong, it was right.
Flash has never done wrong.

D.C mostly is a time capsule to a time when grey never existed.

Does Supermans Morality make him less adult, no I would argue it makes him more grown up.

Angst and Soap opera Marvel pre crisis took it. But: read the Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams Batman of the early seventies even more edgy than Millers trust me it what Batman Begins really takes it from and not Year 1 as people think.

Quirk and big themes Pre Crisis DC still took it, Shade and Swampy etc never ripped modelled themselves on anything Marvel.

and as for what became Vertigo just post retconn which for most on here was as they were born Well as I said the rest is history Marvel has never done anything as daring as Sandman imo.

Marvel is still the McDonalds of comics, It doesn't stop me like everyone "luvvin it", Its just sometimes I want Prime Sirloin and not a big mac.



-Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Does Supermans Morality make him less adult, no I would argue it makes him more grown up.

Angst and Soap opera Marvel pre crisis took it. But: read the Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams Batman of the early seventies even more edgy than Millers trust me it what Batman Begins really takes it from and not Year 1 as people think.

Quirk and big themes Pre Crisis DC still took it, Shade and Swampy etc never ripped modelled themselves on anything Marvel.

and as for what became Vertigo just post retconn which for most on here was as they were born Well as I said the rest is history Marvel has never done anything as daring as Sandman imo.

Marvel is still the McDonalds of comics, It doesn't stop me like everyone "luvvin it", Its just sometimes I want Prime Sirloin and not a big mac.



-Whirly

Marvel is the McDonald's because everyone loves it?

That's a pretty weak rationalization.

DC is more like the MCDonald's because both are iconic, and both are more kid friendly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Marvel is the McDonald's because everyone loves it?

That's a pretty weak rationalization.

DC is more like the MCDonald's because both are iconic, and both are more kid friendly.



You don't read much DC do you

Can you say Vertigo?

16 Years Since Sandman 1, 20 years since Watchmen lets look at Marvel 16 years ago. Hmmmm The Dark Surfer returns doesn't have quite the same ring to it

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
You don't read much DC do you Of course I do.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Can you say Vertigo? Like Disney's touchstone.

Touchstone's existence doesn't make "Disney" any less kiddish.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
16 Years Since Sandman 1, 20 years since Watchmen lets look at Marvel 16 years ago. Hmmmm The Dark Surfer returns doesn't have quite the same ring to it :yawns:

Originally posted by Creshosk
Of course I do.

Like Disney's touchstone.

Touchstone's existence doesn't make "Disney" any less kiddish.

:yawns:



Hmmm not really much of a counter

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by long pig
Actually, quite the opposite.

D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.


Happy? are u f*cking kidding me? he's lost his wife (in the vanishing), watched pete ross turn evil, had batman and wonder woman go against him and kidnap his cousin (the only other actual kryptonian he can relate to) and when darkseid kidnapped her he had to go to apokolips to rescue her, and while brainwashed almost killed batman...

The Flash... his wife was attacked by zoom, and she miscarried... and cant have kids anymore...

Batman just found out the league wiped his memory... and he's pissed...

Elongated Man's wife was killed...

In Justice we just saw the Earth explode (although it was a dream), and all the heroes fail...

Yeah... happy...

DC has kid friendly comics, so does Marvel...

Dc has darkness in spades... and for the last couple of years generally better writing...


Sorry for the rant...

Please don't apologise its all true Originally posted by pr1983
Happy? are u f*cking kidding me? he's lost his wife (in the vanishing), watched pete ross turn evil, had batman and wonder woman go against him and kidnap his cousin (the only other actual kryptonian he can relate to) and when darkseid kidnapped her he had to go to apokolips to rescue her, and while brainwashed almost killed batman...

The Flash... his wife was attacked by zoom, and she miscarried... and cant have kids anymore...

Batman just found out the league wiped his memory... and he's pissed...

Elongated Man's wife was killed...

In Justice we just saw the Earth explode (although it was a dream), and all the heroes fail...

Yeah... happy...

DC has kid friendly comics, so does Marvel...

Dc has darkness in spades... and for the last couple of years generally better writing...


Sorry for the rant...

Making up for lost time, since that's what Marvel has always seemed to have.

Gwen Stacy, Mariko etc.

Can't blame them for copying a winning recipie.


Naw, I'm just playing around on ya.

Seriously I love both Comicverses.

I would make a DC version of this sig. . . but It's just a little harder to find the sprites I need since there was no DC versus Capcom series.

It would be nice to have some of those guys in the background.

a superman one to get you started...

i got gl too, you want it?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Making up for lost time, since that's what Marvel has always seemed to have.

Gwen Stacy, Mariko etc.

Can't blame them for copying a winning recipie.


Naw, I'm just playing around on ya.

Seriously I love both Comicverses.

I would make a DC version of this sig. . . but It's just a little harder to find the sprites I need since there was no DC versus Capcom series.

Well lets think Green Arrow Speedy/Drugs etc was before Tony Starks alcoholism

Saturn Girl and Lightning lads son getting stolen as a baby by darkseid was before Mariko and he got turned into Validus.

Scott Free and Orions switch must have been about the same time as Gwen Stacey.

hmmmmmmmm.

Originally posted by pr1983
a superman one to get you started...

i got gl too, you want it? Yes, please.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Well lets think Green Arrow Speedy/Drugs etc was before Tony Starks alcoholism

Saturn Girl and Lightning lads son getting stolen as a baby by darkseid was before Mariko and he got turned into Validus.

Scott Free and Orions switch must have been about the same time as Gwen Stacey.

hmmmmmmmm.

I was kidding. lol

They blew Superman's planet up, he lost his family (well most of them) and was orphaned. . . You really can't top that chronologically.

Green Lantern...

Originally posted by pr1983
Green Lantern... Thanks, muchly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Thanks, muchly.

No problem... i think draco had a sig full of the whole jla... should ask him where he got his...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yes, please.

I was kidding. lol

They blew Superman's planet up, he lost his family (well most of them) and was orphaned. . . You really can't top that chronologically.

Good point and true enough

you see Marvel basically has a history of capitalizeing on current events. DC for awhile too, but Marvel mostly. e.g. cap america was all about how bad the nazi's and the commies were and how he would single handedly stop them in thier tracks. the xmen was creted to mirror the civil rights struggle in the 50's and 60's and yep you can replace the word mutant with race. spidey was created so that average teens could have a hero of thier own to look up to. stan lee even used to seize the opportunity to tackle drug issues..like spidey would end up at some highschool where some jock was taking steroids, and broke out into roid rage, and he would have to put him down, then a fun loving self righteous PSA about how drugs are for losers would ensue. the even did that in the late 60's when goblin's son was addicted to pills, spidey swooped in and saved the day.

the point is all comics were campy for a while, but different companies do diff. things. eg b4 the crisis DC was all about alien adventures. every single issue of JLA, JSA was about them thwarting some invading race. then on an individual basis, you had big top notch uber powerful heroes battling bank robbers, would be world takeover-ers and mafiosi. when i read comics that were published 30-40 years ago, i lost count how many times ive seen superman or captain marvel return a stolen armored car to the police station......with the bad guys still in it! but that all changed after they revamped.

ever since the early 90's marvel has just been trying to keep up with the Jones's. with awesome kick ass stories like Zero Hour Crisis, marvel had nothing like that at the time. instead they reworked, and re-ordered thier canon so many times its not even funny. like in the late 80's they had magento has the interim leader of the x-men and the new mutants but by 90-93 the re-did the continuity and he was thier most hated enemy again. then by 94-95 he was such a major threat that all the govts. on earth enacted what they called the "magneto protocols" where every major govt. on EARTH held one piece of a massive doomsday weapon to shoot his asteroid out of the sky. then by the late 90's the canon was reordered yet again...and the whole space based genosha thing never happened. he's been killed and resurrected about 2 times since then, and im sure now that he's dead its only a matter of time before he's back. (oh wait he already is)

dont get me wrong Marvel doesnt suck or anything. far from it but, nowadays DC has got the nod. eg. take a look at how they handled identity crisis. stories have been leading up to IDC since late 2003, then IDC led up to a whole bunch of other plot twists that led into countdown to infinte crsis....which led to 4 awesome stories....which will lead to the actual infinte crsis. all having been carried in all different comics. when have you seen marvel devote that much time and effort in one story? crossing over into to other heroes mythos and leading up to a giant conclusion....hardly ever! thats when. dc does that so you look forward to the next issue, whereas even if the comic that a story is continued in is not your fave it wouldnt matter becuase it would be just one giant story thats in someone elses book. the last time i can remeber marvel doing something remotley simialr is Hulk. it ran vol. 1-7, but vol.8 was carried over in the Marvel Knights, but it got canceled, not becuase it sucked or anything but becuase they wanted to start the whole freaking story all over again.

thats what marvel ususally does. they come out with a story, then by the 3rd arc they have a new writer, then each writer brings new ideas and mess with the original concept. then before you know it its sooooooo boring that they have no choice but to do one of those leave everybody hanging kinda stories so that they can start a-fresh

damn good post!!!

Originally posted by pr1983
a superman one to get you started...

i got gl too, you want it? Magneto pose,nice...

Great post manjaro...

yeah c-master, i suppose it is...

Some good points indeed, I agree with a reat deal of it, however not all the JLA was about Space adventures at this point trust me on this, your thinking more of the 50's and 60's than the 70'sOriginally posted by manjaro
you see Marvel basically has a history of capitalizeing on current events. DC for awhile too, but Marvel mostly. e.g. cap america was all about how bad the nazi's and the commies were and how he would single handedly stop them in thier tracks. the xmen was creted to mirror the civil rights struggle in the 50's and 60's and yep you can replace the word mutant with race. spidey was created so that average teens could have a hero of thier own to look up to. stan lee even used to seize the opportunity to tackle drug issues..like spidey would end up at some highschool where some jock was taking steroids, and broke out into roid rage, and he would have to put him down, then a fun loving self righteous PSA about how drugs are for losers would ensue. the even did that in the late 60's when goblin's son was addicted to pills, spidey swooped in and saved the day.

the point is all comics were campy for a while, but different companies do diff. things. eg b4 the crisis DC was all about alien adventures. every single issue of JLA, JSA was about them thwarting some invading race. then on an individual basis, you had big top notch uber powerful heroes battling bank robbers, would be world takeover-ers and mafiosi. when i read comics that were published 30-40 years ago, i lost count how many times ive seen superman or captain marvel return a stolen armored car to the police station......with the bad guys still in it! but that all changed after they revamped.

ever since the early 90's marvel has just been trying to keep up with the Jones's. with awesome kick ass stories like Zero Hour Crisis, marvel had nothing like that at the time. instead they reworked, and re-ordered thier canon so many times its not even funny. like in the late 80's they had magento has the interim leader of the x-men and the new mutants but by 90-93 the re-did the continuity and he was thier most hated enemy again. then by 94-95 he was such a major threat that all the govts. on earth enacted what they called the "magneto protocols" where every major govt. on EARTH held one piece of a massive doomsday weapon to shoot his asteroid out of the sky. then by the late 90's the canon was reordered yet again...and the whole space based genosha thing never happened. he's been killed and resurrected about 2 times since then, and im sure now that he's dead its only a matter of time before he's back. (oh wait he already is)

dont get me wrong Marvel doesnt suck or anything. far from it but, nowadays DC has got the nod. eg. take a look at how they handled identity crisis. stories have been leading up to IDC since late 2003, then IDC led up to a whole bunch of other plot twists that led into countdown to infinte crsis....which led to 4 awesome stories....which will lead to the actual infinte crsis. all having been carried in all different comics. when have you seen marvel devote that much time and effort in one story? crossing over into to other heroes mythos and leading up to a giant conclusion....hardly ever! thats when. dc does that so you look forward to the next issue, whereas even if the comic that a story is continued in is not your fave it wouldnt matter becuase it would be just one giant story thats in someone elses book. the last time i can remeber marvel doing something remotley simialr is Hulk. it ran vol. 1-7, but vol.8 was carried over in the Marvel Knights, but it got canceled, not becuase it sucked or anything but becuase they wanted to start the whole freaking story all over again.

thats what marvel ususally does. they come out with a story, then by the 3rd arc they have a new writer, then each writer brings new ideas and mess with the original concept. then before you know it its sooooooo boring that they have no choice but to do one of those leave everybody hanging kinda stories so that they can start a-fresh

Originally posted by willRules
I like DC but this is the best plot they did.......


http://www.superdickery.com/dick/112.html

THAT ROTTEN BASTARD!!!! WHAT A DICK!!!!!!

Originally posted by manjaro
you see Marvel basically has a history of capitalizeing on current events. DC for awhile too, but Marvel mostly. e.g. cap america was all about how bad the nazi's and the commies were and how he would single handedly stop them in thier tracks.

http://www.superdickery.com/propaganda/1.html

GREAT POST MANJARO.....took the words right outta my mouth....
Marvel's writing has sucked since 1991. They started to get good again
around 1998 or 1999 when they restarted all their books back to #1.
Now they're getting crappy and inconsistent again.
DC writes great stories involving their characters.
Marvel is becoming a cult of personality. They're plots and stories
are simply becoming vehicles for the characters.
(for example, instead of wolverine using his skills and brains to
overcome impossible odds.....let's just make him hulk-like....
....his fans will LOVE it!!!)
This has infested Marvel Comics since 1991 and I see no end in sight.
Perhaps it's time for Joe Quesada to step down as Editor In Chief....
When you update SPIDERman to communicate with spiders
and OTHER INSECTS????.........it's time to step down.

Originally posted by Zahit
THAT ROTTEN BASTARD!!!! WHAT A DICK!!!!!!

Are you talking to me?

Originally posted by willRules
Are you talking to me?
NO....TO SUPERMAN......WHAT A DICK!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Zahit
GREAT POST MANJARO.....took the words right outta my mouth....
Marvel's writing has sucked since 1991. They started to get good again
around 1998 or 1999 when they restarted all their books back to #1.
Now they're getting crappy and inconsistent again.
DC writes great stories involving their characters.
Marvel is becoming a cult of personality. They're plots and stories
are simply becoming vehicles for the characters.
(for example, instead of wolverine using his skills and brains to
overcome impossible odds.....let's just make him hulk-like....
....his fans will LOVE it!!!)
This has infested Marvel Comics since 1991 and I see no end in sight.
Perhaps it's time for Joe Quesada to step down as Editor In Chief....
When you update SPIDERman to communicate with spiders
and OTHER INSECTS????.........it's time to step down. At least he didn't make the webbing even more realistic, eh?

Originally posted by Creshosk
At least he didn't make the webbing even more realistic, eh? spider troll

Lets see, I made a comment about Spiderman . . so I bet that comment was a jab at me. . . I should clearify then what I meant.

At least they didn't place the spinnerets in the same place that it is on real spiders.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Lets see, I made a comment about Spiderman . . so I bet that comment was a jab at me. . . I should clearify then what I meant.

At least they didn't place the spinnerets in the same place that it is on real spiders.
I knew you were going to fall for it, Mr. " I am reading your posts."

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I knew you were going to fall for it, Mr. " I am reading your posts."

Very Clever CM

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Very Clever CM

Think about it. Why would he clarify himself for someone whose posts he can't see?

Furthermore, he is a person that thinks he knows everything, and likes to stay on top. He HAS to know whats going on, whats being said.

With that knowledge, I know he reads my posts.

We've all been psycho-analyzing this, but I think something might be a bit more obvious here.

Superman and Batman are STILL the two most recognized comic characters (they are, even Spidey is a 3rd to them). But Marvel seems to dominate comics more than DC, both on this forum and in general.

Many of us are in our 20's, and some are even older. There's nothing wrong with that, but the majority of comic readers in any generation are in their teens. And teens right now have only been exposed to comic characters and influenced by them for the past...maybe 10 years. The orginal DC Crisis was being written while they were in the womb.

And what have the major comic influences been in the past 10 years that would drive these kids to Marvel?? Movies, video games, cartoons, etc. And what are the most popular comic movies and video games about? Right now, Spider-Man, X-Men, Daredevil, Blade, etc. More recently Batman, but its influence hasn't been felt yet. The original Batman film (Keaton, not Adam West) was in '89. Superman hasn't seen a film in much longer than that. The vast majority of comic readers today haven't been influenced by those, so naturally DC's sales would fall below Marvel. Perhaps the next 10 years will be different, as Batman and Superman (and possibly others like Flash, WW, Justice League cartoons, etc.) are being re-introduced to readers.

But for now, Marvel rode various other mediums to become a leader, and while many arguments about the varying merits of the two companies' comics might be completely valid, if a 13-year-old's friends are talking about the latest Spider-Man film, or video game, or cartoon, or (fill in you own tie-in), then by God that's what he'll purchase. I have a 5-year-old cousin who has watched the SM film ump-teen times, has a SM lunchbox, and feels like he knows Peter Parker personally. That's all the indication I need of who's winning in comics right now.

"I knew you were going to fall for it, Mr. " I am reading your posts." "

I'm not reading your posts, you're just predictable.

I have nothing against DC. I don't miss Smallville, watch all the DC 'toons religiously('cept Titans), usually put Batman/Nightwing on fav. hero lists, liked Batman begins(hated the fights and laughed @ Bale's Batman voice though), even gave the "Birds of Prey" show a chance I like Marvel more though. Characters have always interested me more than powers and I've never liked the "sidekick" thing. When people say DC is overpowered I'm hard pressed not to agree. I'm not sure which company has the most-powerful character or highest number of ultra powerful characters. With DC though it seems like almost all of their more well known characters could kill off an entire city in under 10 minutes. How many times do they use flight & superspeed & invulnerable in 1 hero? Also, they've got these kinds of characters in groups. You'll see Supes, WW, Flash(who I still like although it seems like DC don't sometimes) and M.Manhunter on the same team. Then they get rid of weaknesses. GLs say f**k yellow. MM says f**k fire. Soon Supes might say f**k Kryptonite. Aquaman's lame. How does DC "fix" it? Make him more powerful of course. I'll always love Marvel's characters more, but I'm starting to hate Marvel whoring out it's characters to make them more like the movie counterparts. I like the movies, but I hate comic Spidey's webs being organic and I hated those crappy duds they had the X-Men wear after the movies came out.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
We've all been psycho-analyzing this, but I think something might be a bit more obvious here.

Superman and Batman are STILL the two most recognized comic characters (they are, even Spidey is a 3rd to them). But Marvel seems to dominate comics more than DC, both on this forum and in general.

Many of us are in our 20's, and some are even older. There's nothing wrong with that, but the majority of comic readers in any generation are in their teens. And teens right now have only been exposed to comic characters and influenced by them for the past...maybe 10 years. The orginal DC Crisis was being written while they were in the womb.

And what have the major comic influences been in the past 10 years that would drive these kids to Marvel?? Movies, video games, cartoons, etc. And what are the most popular comic movies and video games about? Right now, Spider-Man, X-Men, Daredevil, Blade, etc. More recently Batman, but its influence hasn't been felt yet. The original Batman film (Keaton, not Adam West) was in '89. Superman hasn't seen a film in much longer than that. The vast majority of comic readers today haven't been influenced by those, so naturally DC's sales would fall below Marvel. Perhaps the next 10 years will be different, as Batman and Superman (and possibly others like Flash, WW, Justice League cartoons, etc.) are being re-introduced to readers.

But for now, Marvel rode various other mediums to become a leader, and while many arguments about the varying merits of the two companies' comics might be completely valid, if a 13-year-old's friends are talking about the latest Spider-Man film, or video game, or cartoon, or (fill in you own tie-in), then by God that's what he'll purchase. I have a 5-year-old cousin who has watched the SM film ump-teen times, has a SM lunchbox, and feels like he knows Peter Parker personally. That's all the indication I need of who's winning in comics right now.

Great point, superman is more known, but spiderman is the most popular.

Add on the fact that most know spiderman JUST from the movies, and that makes your point quite well.



Originally posted by Creshosk
"I knew you were going to fall for it, Mr. " I am reading your posts." "

I'm not reading your posts, you're just predictable. Still arguing it, thats why I keep getting reports by the mods from you,and you are clearifying a post you can't see?

Yea, whatever.

Like you didn't see my post here...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=361142&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2

Must of been another Cordera...

Predictable is you, turning everything into an argument, BUT the topic.

I know I'm irrisistable, I got it like that, have a tootsie pop.

DC is WAY better than marvel.

Marvel's charachters are more or less the same now as they were a few years ago, whereas DC's charachters keep developing

"developing" isnt a good thing, look at the xmen, and spiderman upgrades.

The xmen have gotten EXTRA ridiculous.

I have a few things I dislike about DC, but the main one is the fans. In my (possibly biased) experience, DC characters have the biggest flcok of pigheaded, logic-ignoring and childish fans out there. I go to a few message boards like the Versus forum, and any time a DC character is brought in, there is always this ration of people who run in yelling that the DC character will win and ignoring all comments to the contrary.

Now, that's not to say that Marvel doesn't suffer from this as well. There are quite a few Hulk fanboys that are so stubborn and dense it's sickening (only one or two on here, as opposed to several on other boards). And then there are the Wolverine fanboys... ugh. Still, while a few Marvel characters do suffer from the Rabid Fanboy Syndrome, it seems DC fanboys refuse to allow for the possibility that ANY DC character would lose in a fight against a comparable Marvel character.

Another thing is the powerlevels. Marvel may take the cake in high end cosmic beings (though that is VERY debateable), DC is waaaay over the top int he every day readable characters. Everyone and their brother is a Class 100, invulnerable, speedblitzing brick on some boards. Wonder Woman goes from having to use her bracelets to deflect bullets to a Superman-level lifter who was also an unbeatable martial artist with a device that gives her a ehalingf actor that rivals the Hulk's. And then there's the Flash. First, he just ran really fast, then he vibrated through sh*t, then he hit light speed, now he's a speed-stealing, time traveling, infinite-mass-punching, uber-speedblitzing God Of Speed.

And then there is Supermand. My God. Why read a Superman comic when the odds are its just going to end with the hero either a) getting a new power b) losing (or greatly reducing) one of his vulnerabilites c) casting off a mental blocks/sun dipping? I mean, honestly, pick a f*cking powerset and stick to it. Come on. Super-ventriloquism? SOUL VISION?? In all honesty: what the f*ck (oh, and just to clarify, those are both recent powers displayed, not Pre-Crisis).

And you know, his power level isn't really my problem. I mean, one of my favorite characters is Majestic, who rearranges solar system's to solve a dilemna. My problem is the bloody worship.

Superman spends every day of his life, every minute of his day in a constant parade, both in and out of comics, telling him how great he is. He goes to the JLA, everyone tells him (or thinks about) how great he is. He goes to work at the Planet, that whole paper is devoted to NOTHING but talking about how great he is. His own job AT the paper is making reports on how great he is or what awesome thing he just did, and there are characters that were designed largely just around showing how great he is (Superboy and Jimmy Olsen for starters). Same goes for a lot of the DC heroes, heck there's a Flash MUSEUM for crying out loud.

Frankly I think writers spend more time trying to think up ways of telling him how great he is than actual dialogue on anything else. Thor's a -GOD- and he doesn't spend half his time getting the worship Superman does, even though he's just about as powerful, just as heroic, and saves lives as selflessly as Superman does. I just get sick of seeing Superman's knob getting constantly stroked.

And the funny thing is, after all is said and done, I can generally sit down and read a DC story without shuddering. There are some decent ones out there, and some Vertigo titles are nothing short of amazing. I just hate the -quite literal- hero worship granted to the handful of big names by writers and fans alike.

Originally posted by Khellendros
I have a few things I dislike about DC, but the main one is the fans. In my (possibly biased) experience, DC characters have the biggest flcok of pigheaded, logic-ignoring and childish fans out there. I go to a few message boards like the Versus forum, and any time a DC character is brought in, there is always this ration of people who run in yelling that the DC character will win and ignoring all comments to the contrary.

Now, that's not to say that Marvel doesn't suffer from this as well. There are quite a few Hulk fanboys that are so stubborn and dense it's sickening (only one or two on here, as opposed to several on other boards). And then there are the Wolverine fanboys... ugh. Still, while a few Marvel characters do suffer from the Rabid Fanboy Syndrome, it seems DC fanboys refuse to allow for the possibility that ANY DC character would lose in a fight against a comparable Marvel character.

Another thing is the powerlevels. Marvel may take the cake in high end cosmic beings (though that is VERY debateable), DC is waaaay over the top int he every day readable characters. Everyone and their brother is a Class 100, invulnerable, speedblitzing brick on some boards. Wonder Woman goes from having to use her bracelets to deflect bullets to a Superman-level lifter who was also an unbeatable martial artist with a device that gives her a ehalingf actor that rivals the Hulk's. And then there's the Flash. First, he just ran really fast, then he vibrated through sh*t, then he hit light speed, now he's a speed-stealing, time traveling, infinite-mass-punching, uber-speedblitzing God Of Speed.

And then there is Supermand. My God. Why read a Superman comic when the odds are its just going to end with the hero either a) getting a new power b) losing (or greatly reducing) one of his vulnerabilites c) casting off a mental blocks/sun dipping? I mean, honestly, pick a f*cking powerset and stick to it. Come on. Super-ventriloquism? SOUL VISION?? In all honesty: what the f*ck (oh, and just to clarify, those are both recent powers displayed, not Pre-Crisis).

And you know, his power level isn't really my problem. I mean, one of my favorite characters is Majestic, who rearranges solar system's to solve a dilemna. My problem is the bloody worship.

Superman spends every day of his life, every minute of his day in a constant parade, both in and out of comics, telling him how great he is. He goes to the JLA, everyone tells him (or thinks about) how great he is. He goes to work at the Planet, that whole paper is devoted to NOTHING but talking about how great he is. His own job AT the paper is making reports on how great he is or what awesome thing he just did, and there are characters that were designed largely just around showing how great he is (Superboy and Jimmy Olsen for starters). Same goes for a lot of the DC heroes, heck there's a Flash MUSEUM for crying out loud.

Frankly I think writers spend more time trying to think up ways of telling him how great he is than actual dialogue on anything else. Thor's a -GOD- and he doesn't spend half his time getting the worship Superman does, even though he's just about as powerful, just as heroic, and saves lives as selflessly as Superman does. I just get sick of seeing Superman's knob getting constantly stroked.

And the funny thing is, after all is said and done, I can generally sit down and read a DC story without shuddering. There are some decent ones out there, and some Vertigo titles are nothing short of amazing. I just hate the -quite literal- hero worship granted to the handful of big names by writers and fans alike.


I'm saving this...

its true, DC has better writing overall, but the foundation is lacking.
Marvel has the foundation, but not the writing, at the moment.


superman lives to show how great he is, when he is Clark Kent

Spiderman life is hell, and Peter unwillingly contributes to that.

Then the xupgrades, god.

Originally posted by Khellendros
I have a few things I dislike about DC, but the main one is the fans. In my (possibly biased) experience, DC characters have the biggest flcok of pigheaded, logic-ignoring and childish fans out there. I go to a few message boards like the Versus forum, and any time a DC character is brought in, there is always this ration of people who run in yelling that the DC character will win and ignoring all comments to the contrary.

Now, that's not to say that Marvel doesn't suffer from this as well. There are quite a few Hulk fanboys that are so stubborn and dense it's sickening (only one or two on here, as opposed to several on other boards). And then there are the Wolverine fanboys... ugh. Still, while a few Marvel characters do suffer from the Rabid Fanboy Syndrome, it seems DC fanboys refuse to allow for the possibility that ANY DC character would lose in a fight against a comparable Marvel character.

Another thing is the powerlevels. Marvel may take the cake in high end cosmic beings (though that is VERY debateable), DC is waaaay over the top int he every day readable characters. Everyone and their brother is a Class 100, invulnerable, speedblitzing brick on some boards. Wonder Woman goes from having to use her bracelets to deflect bullets to a Superman-level lifter who was also an unbeatable martial artist with a device that gives her a ehalingf actor that rivals the Hulk's. And then there's the Flash. First, he just ran really fast, then he vibrated through sh*t, then he hit light speed, now he's a speed-stealing, time traveling, infinite-mass-punching, uber-speedblitzing God Of Speed.

And then there is Supermand. My God. Why read a Superman comic when the odds are its just going to end with the hero either a) getting a new power b) losing (or greatly reducing) one of his vulnerabilites c) casting off a mental blocks/sun dipping? I mean, honestly, pick a f*cking powerset and stick to it. Come on. Super-ventriloquism? SOUL VISION?? In all honesty: what the f*ck (oh, and just to clarify, those are both recent powers displayed, not Pre-Crisis).

And you know, his power level isn't really my problem. I mean, one of my favorite characters is Majestic, who rearranges solar system's to solve a dilemna. My problem is the bloody worship.

Superman spends every day of his life, every minute of his day in a constant parade, both in and out of comics, telling him how great he is. He goes to the JLA, everyone tells him (or thinks about) how great he is. He goes to work at the Planet, that whole paper is devoted to NOTHING but talking about how great he is. His own job AT the paper is making reports on how great he is or what awesome thing he just did, and there are characters that were designed largely just around showing how great he is (Superboy and Jimmy Olsen for starters). Same goes for a lot of the DC heroes, heck there's a Flash MUSEUM for crying out loud.

Frankly I think writers spend more time trying to think up ways of telling him how great he is than actual dialogue on anything else. Thor's a -GOD- and he doesn't spend half his time getting the worship Superman does, even though he's just about as powerful, just as heroic, and saves lives as selflessly as Superman does. I just get sick of seeing Superman's knob getting constantly stroked.

And the funny thing is, after all is said and done, I can generally sit down and read a DC story without shuddering. There are some decent ones out there, and some Vertigo titles are nothing short of amazing. I just hate the -quite literal- hero worship granted to the handful of big names by writers and fans alike.

So you don't like Supes and you like Marvel more then

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
So you don't like Supes and you like Marvel more then
I dislike Supes' writing and fanboys. The character himself would be fine.

DC's originality is what gets me. I love it.

I think a story where Superman goes crazy and attacks his friends is needed though. I hope some writers find a way to a story like that into print. It would be an excellent twist that no one would ever see coming.

Also, I think it's time we shake things up a bit in Gotham. Batman needs a protege to carry on the torch after he is long gone. You know, like some sort of character that dawns the mantle of the Bat and carries on the tradition after training and fighting with Bruce. Or maybe even someone as a backup, or fill in. Heck, why not even make it a girl?

Why not? Let's go wild.

All this talk about character development in DC is skewed.

When did character development = Super Heroes arguing and yelling at each other all the time? At the end of the day, everyone is the same. They are just pissed at their friends now.

Ooooo...DC is so cool now...Dark and broody for the sake of being Dark and broody. Dark and Broody is what is trendy and all the hip cats are reading that stuff now so DC is so sweet. Oooo...shoot Blue Beetle in the face like a dipstick...OoOooO crack Max's neck...What a good story!!

Ooooo...tell the fans all they need to buy is the O.M.A.C. project and then carry the story into a billion f!!cking issues(minor exageration) and apologize about it later. Yeah, like they didn't know what they were doing with that sucker punch.

That and the upgrades...*cries* the ridiculous upgrades.....Oh Batman...what have they done to you?!?

With that said, the comic companies that fall under DC's umbrella are sweet. The new Green Lantern is a good read too.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Also, I think it's time we shake things up a bit in Gotham. Batman needs a protege to carry on the torch after he is long gone. You know, like some sort of character that dawns the mantle of the Bat and carries on the tradition after training and fighting with Bruce. Or maybe even someone as a backup, or fill in. Heck, why not even make it a girl?

Ya mean, like Robin? Or the other Robin? Or the other one? Or Bat-girl?

I see what you're saying though (not in this part really, but in the entire post). Skaing things up is good. Hopefully the new Crisis will cement some much needed changes in some of the core characters.

What? That's happend like 20 times!

Superman goes crazy (of course it isn't his fault, he's perfect) and Batman takes him out....the tough way..ooooo...

D.C needs to get rid of Superman/Wonder Woman/superboy/girl

Then we can have a story.

I meant like Robin I/Nightwing, Robin II, Robin III, Azrael, Batwoman, The Batgirls, The cartoon Batman Begins etc...




My first post was supposed to be sarcastic .

It was a play on DC's recycling of plot devices.

The second post? That was me venting.

I think why alot of people seem to dislike DC is because they haven't had the chance to read or follow the sotrylines...DC's comics are harder to jump right into midway as opposed to Marvel.

I think alot of people are like me, the very casual comic book person who doesn't really have much time to read or follow comics and just go to the Barnes and Nobles to occasionally browse through the books. Since Marvels comics are often more flashy and superficially exciting, people tend to gravitate towards Marvel over DC. For example, batman comics are usually pretty deep and you gotta actually read the dialogue whereas an issue of avengers or xmen has alot of battles and stuff that would interest the casual reader.

my 2 pennies

Originally posted by Khellendros
My problem is the bloody worship.
Superman spends every day of his life, every minute of his day in a constant parade, both in and out of comics, telling him how great he is. He goes to the JLA, everyone tells him (or thinks about) how great he is. He goes to work at the Planet, that whole paper is devoted to NOTHING but talking about how great he is. His own job AT the paper is making reports on how great he is or what awesome thing he just did, and there are characters that were designed largely just around showing how great he is (Superboy and Jimmy Olsen for starters). Same goes for a lot of the DC heroes, heck there's a Flash MUSEUM for crying out loud.
This is a minor gripe of mine too. Everyone loves (e.g.) Superman in (e.g.) Metropolis. I dunno maybe it's just me but I find a little more realism in the more anti-hero types. If someone like Superman landed on earth I doubt he'd be embraced as readily as he is in the comics. That's not human nature. I know, I know people are going to say "but people read comics to escape reality" - still the level of adulation just irks me a bit.

One more thing about DC....It seems like if you're not one of their trio(Bats,Supes,WW) they don't give a f**k about you. Flash, GA and a group of lames get nearly beaten by Deathstroke. None of the big 3 are there to get near-owned. How is WW more important than Flash? WW sux!!!! Does she sell more books than him or something?

I know flash is SOOOO underrated, its disgusting.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
I meant like Robin I/Nightwing, Robin II, Robin III, Azrael, Batwoman, The Batgirls, The cartoon Batman Begins etc...




My first post was supposed to be sarcastic .

It was a play on DC's recycling of plot devices.

The second post? That was me venting.

Shall I discuss Marvel recycling plots hmmmmmm.

How is Wolverines memory, Spidey's love life, Iron Mans overcome alcoholism how many times etc etc etc

As I said before both have good and bad stories generally DC imo is better written

DC has better writing, marvel has a better foundation though...

DC is nowhere near as bad as they used to be. Pre-Crisis era DC recycled plots very frequently.

Originally posted by Khellendros
I dislike Supes' writing and fanboys. The character himself would be fine.

have you read verheidens run?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
DC has better writing, marvel has a better foundation though...

I think dc has decent foundations...

and yeah, the flash needs to get way more credit... not upgrades, just a bit more focus... f*ck, even impulse(bart, not sure about his hero name) is vibrating now...

I love both DC and Marvel and I have a fair shair of both DC and Marvel comics in my comic collection.

I'm not so sure about that. If you count Wildstorm and Vertigo then DC has way better writing.

However, Marvel has some pretty decent stuff as long as you don't blindly follow their flagship stuff.

The Gravity (ongoing, you should definately pick up Gravity), New Warriors, Phoenix Endsong and GLA minis are excellent. Daredevil is usually pretty good. The MAX Punisher is awesome. Cable and Deadpool's jokes are actually funny unlike ICBINTJL. New Thunderbolts is a traditional yet awesome comic book super hero team read. Almost all of the Ultimate line has been pretty good. (Let's just say Allstar Batman and Robin was a letdown for me so far.) The Runaways are Marvel's premiere west coast comic. Then there is all that SUMPREME POWER stuff.

X-men and New Avengers is Marvel's money; but they do put out a lot of good stuff. There is a different tone to each company right now yeah. They both put out decent comics.

And the character problem in DC is real. Honestly if your not Superman, Batman, WW, Flash, or a GL nobody gives a rats ass about you and your goofy cape.

Personally, I think Marvel is underrated. Soley because a lot of people out there are like, "Marvel!?? psshhh...I'm so cool. I havn't picked up a Marvel title since the 80s."

Originally posted by 8bitChris
I'm not so sure about that. If you count Wildstorm and Vertigo then DC has way better writing.
And there you go. Right there, nail on the head. All those various companies DC has ahd the good sense to buy/start up? Awesome. Incredible. Especially Vertigo. But the core DC titles just suck from what I see.

The thing is, it seems like DC can't decide HOW they want to treat their holy trinity. It's liek they want them to be edgier and more conflicted, but don't realize that after the fourth of fifth time Superman goes on a rampage, people aren't going to give a sh*t whether he was attacked or not. All they know is the most powerful thing on Earth is routinely going batshit insane. And yet they keep up with the constant verbal handjobs. "Superman is so great, he's like a God but humble, oh where would we be without Superman, It'll all be okay because SUPERMAN is on his way!" It's just tiring.

I thought the Superman rampage was at at least 20+ times by now.

Thor gets the same type of respect. Captain America even moreso. Maybe not on the same level but it is there.

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
Thor gets the same type of respect. Captain America even moreso. Maybe not on the same level but it is there.
Exactly. Not even close to the same level. Captain America can be pretty bad, but still not as bad as Superman.

My favourite Dc character is Batman because unlike most people in the DCU, he is not only underpowered, he is powerless. He should be a marvel character, he would probably fit into the Marvel universe better...........

Originally posted by willRules
My favourite Dc character is Batman *looks at post, then at signature, then up at the post again.*

Do you mean a collective grouping concept when you say "Batman"?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Exactly. Not even close to the same level. Captain America can be pretty bad, but still not as bad as Superman.

the "what do u think this A stands for?" was pretty crappy...

Originally posted by Creshosk
*looks at post, then at signature, then up at the post again.*

Do you mean a collective grouping concept when you say "Batman"?

LOL


Nope I prefer Batman as in Bruce Wayne= Batman

I have different characters on my sigs so I have a bigger variety of comic book stuff. Honestly? I don't own any Nightwing comics but from stuff I have Read about him, he sounds really cool, I have read a few Internet comics with him in but that is it..................Im much more of a Marvel fan myself.............

Originally posted by pr1983
have you read verheidens run?



I think dc has decent foundations...

and yeah, the flash needs to get way more credit... not upgrades, just a bit more focus... f*ck, even impulse(bart, not sure about his hero name) is vibrating now... By foundation I mean material to write about.

Look at characters like spiderman and wolverine, you can write on them FOREVER.

They have that potential.

<<"Superman is so great, he's like a God but humble, oh where would we be without Superman, It'll all be okay because SUPERMAN is on his way!" It's just tiring.>>

but you have to remember when the superman character was developed. we're talking about a character THIRTY YEARS OLDER than any marvel character. until marvel came along, there was (essentially) only ONE way to do comic books - the dc way. when you look at dc characters, you HAVE to look back to the culture of the time. then, having realized when the character was developed (and over how many years!) you need to ask yourself - how do you significantly change a character realized in the 1930's (think about how long ago that was, and how much the world has changed - north america has grown up with superman! how can you wonder at his popularity when he has become a part of our cultural consciousness?) WITHOUT really changing him, changing the essence of what the character has always been?

no easy feat. i think that to understand the essential dc characters, you need to look at them in the context of their history. in that light, i don't know how you can help but appreciate them.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
By foundation I mean material to write about.

Look at characters like spiderman and wolverine, you can write on them FOREVER.

They have that potential.

and the flash, superman and batman dont?

Originally posted by pr1983
the "what do u think this A stands for?" was pretty crappy...
Uhh...

1. That was Ultimate Cap. Different character.

2. ...What?? How is that related to what I was talking about?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Uhh...

1. That was Ultimate Cap. Different character.

2. ...What?? How is that related to what I was talking about?

You said cap was never as bad as superman...

Originally posted by pr1983
and the flash, superman and batman dont? Of course they do, batman the most, but like its been said, everything was perfect a little too long...

Originally posted by willRules
My favourite Dc character is Batman because unlike most people in the DCU, he is not only underpowered, he is powerless. He should be a marvel character, he would probably fit into the Marvel universe better...........

Are you seriousy suggesting that marvel's charachters are powerless??

Im more in the middle ground about this.

I hate things from both companies to the gut.

Because in DC the dials go up to 11 thank you for this information Juntai

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15460

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

I thought I'd mention that the black-and-white morality in some/most of DC's main superheroes can be annoying.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I thought I'd mention that the black-and-white morality in some/most of DC's main superheroes can be annoying.

the mindwiping of dr. light wasnt very black and white...

i think more people say between the ages of 25 and under grew up on marvel and people older than that on dc so it's kinda kids vs adults.

me personally i like both marvel unpreditable (sometimes) and dc classic.

i do think a lot of marvel fans on here are either young or don't actually read comics though. Which would explain the dumb arguments, lack of focus or staying to topic, and of course the dumb a** results i.e DC's overpowered but they all some how lose to every marvel character. like in the Wonder Woman vs F4 fight apparently WW stands still while the F4 go for death shots?

Originally posted by pr1983
the mindwiping of dr. light wasnt very black and white...
The we all hate Wonder Woman now thing is pretty black and white...

The rub here is that there're two DC's. There's the DC that does the JLA et al. and then there's Vertigo. Apart from the occasional Justice Leaguer cameo in Sandman or Swamp Thing, you'd literally never know they were the sam e company. Only in the past few years has Marvel begun to match the sophistication and subtlety of DC's best work, Alias for example. OTOH, for all DC's heights, there month in month outs comics are more often than not mediocre. In their "normal comics" DC typically only has great stories when they tell stories that are only peripherally "super-hero" tales. In contrast, Marvel may not have DC's amazing standouts, but compare the Kang War to Our World at War. Oh wait, there is no comparison.

Ive heard about the Kang War in Marvel but since Ive been away from comics for 7 years could someone fill me in on what it was about??? was it as big as Our Worlds At War in DC????

Originally posted by pr1983
the mindwiping of dr. light wasnt very black and white...

these things pr are always stated by people who don't read DC PR UC UR OK

Bah! I still think it's ridiculous that everyone's pissed at Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by Marvel=DC
i think more people say between the ages of 25 and under grew up on marvel and people older than that on dc so it's kinda kids vs adults.

me personally i like both marvel unpreditable (sometimes) and dc classic.

i do think a lot of marvel fans on here are either young or don't actually read comics though. Which would explain the dumb arguments, lack of focus or staying to topic, and of course the dumb a** results i.e DC's overpowered but they all some how lose to every marvel character. like in the Wonder Woman vs F4 fight apparently WW stands still while the F4 go for death shots?
Some truth here although I read both

Why is everyone pissed at wonder woman?

She killed a villain because it was the only way to stop him.