Snape's Betrayal

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starwarsfreak34
Okay, i've only started this thread coz i'm sick of reading drips and draps of HBP in various orders and picking up on things only a few seem to be doing. People are arguing with the things that seem the most likely and giving totally horendous reasons for snape being good/evil.

so, i ask you first, why then did snape not attack harry until the last possible moment as Harry chased him across the grounds after DD's death? why did he constantly defelct Harry's attacks and continue to run? surely snape could have killed him there and then?

also, people have mentioned the possibility that Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to DD. why can't people see that this is the most obvious reasons for DD's trust?

DD made snape take the UV after he defected to the Order and the fact that snape isn't dead means that he remains loyal to DD! and even if he didn't do it then, i think it could have been made some time during HBP year.

didn't DD constantly argue with harry over the Malfoy/Snape situations. didn't DD seem sure that he knew what he was doing... what malfoy was doing? i think its likely that DD knew what draco was up to because he had snape spying on him. Snape was reporting everthing to DD and they must have realised draco had to kill DD.

thus, knowing that he had made an UV to narcissa, snape realised that he would have to kill DD becasue there was no way draco would be able to do it. so snape must have made an UV with DD that cermented DDs trust in him, deeming that DD wanted snape to kill him if it seemed likely that draco would not suceed.

either way, this mean that DD would die and he accepted this because he knew that when Harry came to face voldemort that he would have to do it alone--or at least without an adult to protect him (which begs the possibility that ROn, Hermy and Ginny, poss neville and luna, will be with him at the end)

its like in star wars empire strikes back. "if you chose to face vader you must do it alone... i cannot interfere."

Pielover666
Ok, This is a repeat thread.....

HorseRiderxoxo
But Sanpe has to be a death eather! why does he away say " Dark Lord" only death eaters say that! and he stayed at hogwarts so he could gain trust to dumbledore. if sanpe isnt a death eater wont voldemort kill snape? because who ever turns voldemort down he will kill them so sanpe has to be a death eater

The Phantom
This thread has been repeated so many times its not even funny. Also, he is good, people can call people something whenever he wants. Face it, he is good.

KingDubya
Originally posted by HorseRiderxoxo
But Sanpe has to be a death eather! why does he away say " Dark Lord" only death eaters say that! and he stayed at hogwarts so he could gain trust to dumbledore. if sanpe isnt a death eater wont voldemort kill snape? because who ever turns voldemort down he will kill them so sanpe has to be a death eater
As I said in another similar thread, Snape probably only calls Voldemort "Dark Lord" due to conditioning, which means that after doing it long enough, it becomes habit (like how if you ring a bell every time you feed a dog food for a long enough amount of time, it will drool when it hears a bell).
To answer your question about Voldemort killing any betrayers, Snape is a master at Legillimancy (keeping people form invading your mind). That is revealed in the fifth book when Harry takes private lessons from Snape to keep Voldemort out of his mind.

allofyousuckkk
if snape were really loyal to dumbledore he would have broke the vow and died. Any really loyal person would do that....onyl a selfish person wouldn't

The Phantom
Not if he did as Dumbledore told him to.

Emily_depp
I think he has a point and you lot are soooo rude just respect peoples opions! mad

air
not unles Snape was told by Dumbledore himself to kill him, this way he protects himself (the lok of hatred etched on his face = revoltion on the thing he has been sworn to do by Dumbledore he hates himself for what he has to do) and protects Malfoy and also Malfoys family, well this is my current opinion

starwarsfreak34
Originally posted by air
not unles Snape was told by Dumbledore himself to kill him, this way he protects himself (the lok of hatred etched on his face = revoltion on the thing he has been sworn to do by Dumbledore he hates himself for what he has to do) and protects Malfoy and also Malfoys family, well this is my current opinion

yes, yes! that is exactly what i am talking about. finally someone who has caught on to THAT! Sape hated the though of what he had to do, he didn't hate dumbledore. this is why he didn't try to hurt harry, or let anyone else hurt him for that matter. if i remember rightly, didn't snape stop on of the death eaters from cursing harry behind his back or something?

Smodden
Originally posted by starwarsfreak34
Snape's Betrayal...

Snape? Betrayal? dontgetit

Thank youno expression

Trickster
Originally posted by HorseRiderxoxo
But Sanpe has to be a death eather! why does he away say " Dark Lord" only death eaters say that! and he stayed at hogwarts so he could gain trust to dumbledore. if sanpe isnt a death eater wont voldemort kill snape? because who ever turns voldemort down he will kill them so sanpe has to be a death eater

Snape is a Death Eater. Or was a Death Eater, and is one again now.

But yes, I think Dumbledore did it so Harry would have an ally in Voldemort's camp.

Tassie
I agree with him. Some good points made- some of which have been done already...



Interestingly, that can be taken any way. Maybe the Vow Snape made to DD (assuming he actually did make one) could've been for him to NOT kill Harry in the first place, or something that could enable him to keep the Vow and still betray DD- in other words, the Vow didn't necessarily have to be related to DD's death.
But, in any case, I still believe Snape is on the good side.

Emily_depp
Originally posted by Trickster
Snape is a Death Eater. Or was a Death Eater, and is one again now.

But yes, I think Dumbledore did it so Harry would have an ally in Voldemort's camp.


soooooo true!

Sir Mist
Originally posted by HorseRiderxoxo
But Sanpe has to be a death eather! why does he away say " Dark Lord" only death eaters say that! and he stayed at hogwarts so he could gain trust to dumbledore. if sanpe isnt a death eater wont voldemort kill snape? because who ever turns voldemort down he will kill them so sanpe has to be a death eater

Umm...pretending to be one maybe?no expression

Please dont tell me you read the book in only one dimensionno expression

Some_Black_Guy
I'm pretty sure Dumbledore had the situation well under his control. After Malfoy disarmed him he had plenty of time to say 'accio wand', and he wouldn't have even had to do that because he can do non-verbal spells. I think he chose to be a martyr.

big gay kirk
SNAPE IS A GOOD GUY.... faced with the choice of dying and having someone else kill Dumbledore, robbing the Order of two valuable players, Snape did the only thing possible.... he thought of the future, not one person.... by not blowing his cover, he will now be in a better position to fight Voldemort, and possibly help Harry.... Dumbledore was NOT IMPORTANT..... the fight against Voldemort is.... Snape is man enough to know this....Harry is just a petulant, stupid kid, who doesn't really understand that it isn't a game.....

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Some_Black_Guy
I'm pretty sure Dumbledore had the situation well under his control. After Malfoy disarmed him he had plenty of time to say 'accio wand', and he wouldn't have even had to do that because he can do non-verbal spells. I think he chose to be a martyr.

Not wanting to sound silly but how does he do that without his wand?

Meanwhile, people keep saying that Dumbledore knew he was going to die, but that does not seem to 100% fit events. Wy, for example, offer Draco protection?

In fact, why beg Severus? Did he seem hesistant to kill?

All that is just flim-flam, of cours,e but people seem to be making out that the only logical possibility is to think Dumbledore planned it, and I do not agree.

I am almost hoping Snape is evil (or at leasat that this was not just a good-guy plan) simply because it is looking far too obvious that this was just a ploy.

rick01666
i think he is still good maybe i agree the look of hatred was to do with the task he had to do also when harry cathes up to him near hagrids and keeps trying to course him he tills him " no unforgiveable couses for u harry not untill u learn to keep ur mouth shut and ur mind closed" advise?????????

~Air Angel~
SW has a good theory and I agree with him....except I think that Dumbledore might not really be dead.

I think he and snape planned the potion drink that dumbledore had to drink and snape probably advised him that it was going to hurt him but it would be the only way to block the curse and snape would know b/c he probably invented it himself.

Anyways so no one ever really confirms dumbledore is dead.....Hagrid just said he took care of it (and he may not be in on the whole thing or maybe he was and he faked it).

Snape didn't attack Harry and he could have.

This was all a set up so voldemort would think that DD was really dead and then he'll show up at the final battle in the end of book 7.

Dumbledore won't tell Harry b/c there's a possibility that Voldemort would be able to get into his mind and know that DD lived.

Meanwhile JK has most of her fans to believe that DD is long gone and snape is the bad guy that we've all been screaming about for the past 6 books and then in book 7 EVERYTHING comes out..... maybe even Snape will die for Harry....who knows.......

Ushgarak
REALLY cannot see most of that being the case, AA!

And where are these 'most of her fans'? I have barely found anyone who thinks it is that straightforward. If that is the twist it is a cumbersome and lame one.

shaber
Snape is probably a conflicted villain afflicted by some guilt, but clearly not good. The author has said as much and added that he is more culpable than Voldemort because his development was less unremittingly harsh, therefore his evil actions are done by moral choice (by implication Voldemort is simply an amoral being).

Some_Black_Guy
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not wanting to sound silly but how does he do that without his wand?



I had to be drunk or overworked the day I concocted that laughing

Melatonin
Originally posted by rick01666
i think he is still good maybe i agree the look of hatred was to do with the task he had to do also when harry cathes up to him near hagrids and keeps trying to course him he tills him " no unforgiveable couses for u harry not untill u learn to keep ur mouth shut and ur mind closed" advise?????????



yes, indeed Snape looks very "Educating" here, but...

if it was all a plan.... that DD supported... and god I hope it isn't...

why would Snape give tips on how to cast Unforgivables?
this is truly a dark-art advice...

Melatonin
(and to the one who got upset that "snapes betrayal" was a spoiler... it's in chapter 2 anyway...)


(why didn't dumbledore spill the poison in the cave?!?!)

birthoftheforce
i think snape was in love with lily potter and so when he found out she along with james were killed because of the info he passed to voldermort, he was so upset with himself and his actions that he joined dumbledore. ithink that dumbledore was actually dying during book 6 (something to do with his finger) and new it and decided that the best way for himself to die was for snape to kill him. that way he would be fully accepted by voldermort and voldermort would trust him with anything (possibly his horcruxs). It was also said in the book that they had been argueing not long before dumbledore died and dumbledore was probably persuading him to kill him. Also when dumbledore was pleading to snape it was probably a plead for snape to kill him and not to save him. also when hatty calls snape a coward snape gets angry and rightly he should as he had to be brave and far from a coward to kill dumbledore.

Trickster
Originally posted by Melatonin
(and to the one who got upset that "snapes betrayal" was a spoiler... it's in chapter 2 anyway...)


(why didn't dumbledore spill the poison in the cave?!?!)

Dumbledore couldn't spill it... It was magic - that's the point!

But yes, I don't believe Snape is evil - while not helping Harry, he may simply refuse to help Voldemort when the time comes.

weegie
Exactly! Good points there smile
Both dd and snape were probably chatting to each other through the're minds smile and the whole unbreakable vow thing - thats a brilliant idea!
I was thinking though - snape is a real clever guy. The whole book is about the half blood prince, snape. The book shows the mans genuis, could snape outsmart dumbledore?? The potions book was invented by JK to show Snapes brilliance at magic - and the magic was evil. JK is trying to make us see how evil snape is!
However, i believe snape is a good guy. Although JK is forcing us to believe hes a bad guy, Shes also hinting he's actually good!

birthoftheforce
shes making us believe that so when we find out that hes good it will be an even bigger surprise.

radioboy121
Snape killing Dumbledore looked more like a mercy killing (Dumbledore sounded like he was begging for it). There was no sense in having Snape and him getting killed by the Death Eaters and junior (Draco).

We're often seeing Harry voice out against Snape and we know how bias Harry can be, despite what Snape has shown (i.e. helped Lupin momentary by making him potions, came to Dumbledore's aid during one of the Horticrux, avoiding hurting Harry, etc.).

Snape appears to be still good.

Melatonin
Originally posted by weegie
The book shows the mans genuis, could snape outsmart dumbledore?? The potions book was invented by JK to show Snapes brilliance at magic - and the magic was evil. JK is trying to make us see how evil snape is!



Actually, I thought the book was there to show how Harry trusted the book and defended it ALTHOUGH it was rather obvious it has dark power,
and the way Harry trusted the book is quite Paralelle to DD trusing Snape.


I think it's mentioned.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by birthoftheforce
shes making us believe that so when we find out that hes good it will be an even bigger surprise.

Except that that wouldn't be even a tiny surprise now, would it? That is in fact the more OBVIOUS development at this point. The surprise is if he is evil.

~Air Angel~
I see both sides on this. She could surprise us though with him being good Ush....b/c the surprise could end up being why DD trusts him. We don't know for sure...just have some really good guesses. We could all be off and it'd be something that would blow us out of the water.

allofyousuckkk
IF HE DID MAKRE A VOW IT WOULD HAVE BEEN (sorry 4 caps) 2 prove to dumbledore in every way that he is good and doi everything dumbledore asks...........and werent him n dumbledore arguing in the woods about something?what was that about?

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