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Do you think there is things which cannot be explained by a language(I mean, things which cannot be writen as a set of sentences) like if anyone tryies to explain it, he will always need to be more detailed about that(writing more sentences) to express its full meaning, in a way our explanation will never be completely right, like if we would be always missing something ?

Or maybe something like that which cannot be expressed by a language, or a set of sentences, is the same to say that this thing doesn´t exist ?

Ok... I have some mathematical analogies for that:

like irrational numbers for example pi, e, phi, etc.... those are numbers that are infinite, you cannot write them matemathically, just make aproximations, like 3,14(particularly Pitagoras didn´t like the the concept of irracional numbers... for him they looked somewhat "unreal", because they could not be expressed entirely).

another example is the concept of infinite used in mathematics, when something goes up to infinite, its because it cannot be expressed in a limited number of sentences

0!( which is = 1) can be only defined as a sum of a infinite number of terms.

A non-mathematical example would be concepts like nothingness I think... since we cannot express it, God too I think.... or any too metaphysical concepts.

There'S a great poem by Michael Ende (the guy who wrote The Neverending Story) aboot Realists and trying to explain reality....he says it is impossible to Write aboot reality because it is a way to big concept to grasp.....

Now, yes I believe there are things that cannot explained with language especially since there are things we can't understand...wec cannot explain something we can'*t know, although except for mathematical problems I think Language can be extended to explain most things (although we can't know if we explained them right )


Anyways...you have a strange ability to post threads aboot things I talked aboot with my father not too long ago.....

It's because Atlantis is in your brain....he's physic you know...Bardock.

trying to explain a color, and then I don't mean the physics behind it, I mean just the way you perceive it. I do not think one can actually describe a colour to the point where someone else knows entirely what you mean. Without showing it to him or her, and even with showing the other person could still see it only a tiny bit different.

Originally posted by debbiejo
It's because Atlantis is in your brain....he's physic you know...Bardock.

the word you were looking for was Psychic....not Physic......but almost.....

Wow Atlantis....you been doing some reading????

Bardock....well, you know what I mean...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Wow Atlantis....you been doing some reading????

Bardock....well, you know what I mean...

Yeah... maybe I should try to contact Einstein´s spirit, and do some psychography.

Originally posted by Fire
trying to explain a color, and then I don't mean the physics behind it, I mean just the way you perceive it. I do not think one can actually describe a colour to the point where someone else knows entirely what you mean. Without showing it to him or her, and even with showing the other person could still see it only a tiny bit different.

Good example... like a sensation, or Matrix, it cannot be explained, you must see for youself

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Good example... like a sensation, or Matrix, it cannot be explained, you must see for youself
True, those things are just not explainable....we can call them something but we can't explain what it actually is.....

Ya, ah... ah... ah...

yeah i find myself having a hard time explaining things some times

what about Love?

Originally posted by Fire
what about Love?

Love is the most difficult to explain...You can't even explain it with words...It's the most wonderful feeling, yet invisible to see...But just as real....Some try to use words, but can never find them...others use metaphors...Some are afraid to say at all.....How can you explain something that is so incredible....I don't think you can....It just happens....usually when your not looking........It's a place only in your Dreams...........

Love too... thats because I like poems they are a way to express somethings like feelings, and sensations. I cannot say logically what love is in a set of senteces, but art can express those feelings in a better way.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Love too... thats because I like poems they are a way to express somethings like feelings, and sensations. I cannot say logically what love is in a set of senteces, but art can express those feelings in a better way.

Also metaphors.....Here's one for you...

Walking through a beautiful forest as I usually do, I came upon a swirling Vortex....Quite stunning...I sat and watched for quite awhile...I saw it interesting...but just watched...I became curious and then stuck my hand inside....pulled it out...quite nice, I thought...the next day...I stuck in my leg....even more wonderful was the feeling....Day after day I came and watched...but the vortex changed into many different radiant colors....glistening....How mesmerized I was....then...I started hearing beautiful sounds coming from it...like music....How brilliant it was....Suddenly I started feeling a strange pull from it...I stood next to a tree and knew I should hang on to it....but what I really wanted to do was jump into it.....

TA DA.....How's that.

very abstract.... is that about love !?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
very abstract.... is that about love !?

Yup.....It's about attraction...and the pull and allure of it all. And I am very abstract anyway...

There are indeed concepts that we all have an accepted understanding of, but the moment you try to define them in any way, the meaning is hard to capture.

The essence of certain things can't be explained on a piece of paper. Think about emotions, we can explain what chemicals in our brain create things like happiness, but can we locate the feeling itself?

Yes, but I can't explain why.

Originally posted by Mindship
Yes, but I can't explain why.

Nice one

Language is made only to express certain concepts. It is in theory possible to construct a language that can express things that cannot be expressed with any language on Earth. Unfortunately such a language would be impractical in the real world.

So I guess my answer is that anything can be expressed though language just not the ones we use.

Originally posted by Mindship
Yes, but I can't explain why.

I was thinking about saying something like that, but I didn't want to come across as a smart ass. Good job. jk

I think it was Leibniz who believed that all truths have a reason or explanation of why they are truths, but perhaps there are true facts within our universe that cannot be expressed or explained.

This is true in math and has been proved(with the mathematical imcompleteness theorem by Kurt Gödel). There are mathematical truths(i. e. theorems) that cannot be proven but they are very real.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was thinking about saying something like that, but I didn't want to come across as a smart ass. Language is but driftwood upon which we cling in the deep, open ocean of reality. dance

Originally posted by Mindship
Language is but driftwood upon which we cling in the deep, open ocean of reality. dance

You are so... I'm lost for words.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Do you think there is things which cannot be explained by a language(I mean, things which cannot be writen as a set of sentences) like if anyone tryies to explain it, he will always need to be more detailed about that(writing more sentences) to express its full meaning, in a way our explanation will never be completely right, like if we would be always missing something ?

Or maybe something like that which cannot be expressed by a language, or a set of sentences, is the same to say that this thing doesn´t exist ?

Ok... I have some mathematical analogies for that:

like irrational numbers for example pi, e, phi, etc.... those are numbers that are infinite, you cannot write them matemathically, just make aproximations, like 3,14(particularly Pitagoras didn´t like the the concept of irracional numbers... for him they looked somewhat "unreal", because they could not be expressed entirely).

another example is the concept of infinite used in mathematics, when something goes up to infinite, its because it cannot be expressed in a limited number of sentences

0!( which is = 1) can be only defined as a sum of a infinite number of terms.

A non-mathematical example would be concepts like nothingness I think... since we cannot express it, God too I think.... or any too metaphysical concepts.

You need girlfriend......

j/k

But fortunately we have telepathy.......No more problem here.

Originally posted by debbiejo
You need girlfriend......

j/k

But fortunately we have telepathy.......No more problem here.

Well... telepathy is useful when things cannot be expressed by language !

Maybe if we used all of our brain then we would be able to express some inexpressible concepts with language.

We use our entire brain.

Originally posted by Storm
We use our entire brain.

Of course there are things that are unexplainable! Try, for example, explaining, Oh I dunno... the color pink to someone who is blind; Describe God, assuming one believes in him/her; Paint a picture of gravity... ok, ok, that's sublimely ridiculous, but one gets the picture.

Originally posted by Laurie
Of course there are things that are unexplainable! Try, for example, explaining, Oh I dunno... the color pink to someone who is blind; Describe God, assuming one believes in him/her.

Technically those are limitations of the speaker or listener not of language itself.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Technically those are limitations of the speaker or listener not of language itself.

True