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This is real simple. To keep fanboyism on a reasonable (Read: almost nonexistant) level and yet to keep a decent debate, let's compare something other than a one on one.

This will be a series of challenges. There will be five total. First step is to vote for six individuals (normal or force users) who will attempt these challenges. For now, I just want a singular pick from each of you. (Note that again, limit per person, one) we'll get those six people and then start the challenges.

Here's my vote: Obi-Wan Kenobi.

And for the sake of it being a versus thread, let's cosnider that they are actively competiting.

And about picking the six: After we have a few votes for individuals (I'm guessing by tomorrow night) we'll whittle it down and start off. Basically I'm gonna handpick from the lot, but I'm open to suggestions and reasons why person A should compete.

I put a vote in for Revan.

We have one for Obi-Wan and one for Revan. I changed my mind, let's let everyone have TWO votes (2) and then people who get three votes are pretty much in unless I say they really aren't gonna make it (like Watto).

My second vote goes for Han Solo.

My second vote goes for Han Solo.

Solo = 2
Kenobi = 1
Revan = 1

Janus you notice you and I are the only ones even participating in this little event. That is just sad.

It's twenty to one eastern time. Not too sad. Just wait a day. I am.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
It's twenty to one eastern time. Not too sad. Just wait a day. I am.

Wow your up late, it's only 9:45 over here.

Eh, being at home and unable to go to work or school does that to you.

I vote for Luke Skywalker and Han Solo

Three for Solo. He's pretty much in.

1 for Luke, Revan, and Obi-Wan.

Revan and Ben.

Mace Windu
Darth Revan

Naga Sadow and Exar Kun.

Who left those two out? I'm ashamed of you.

Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 2
Luke Skywalker = 1
Mace Windu = 1
Naga Sadow = 1
Exar Kun = 1

Dooku and Yoda.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Dooku and Yoda.


Dooku = 1
Yoda = 1
Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 2
Luke Skywalker = 1
Mace Windu = 1
Naga Sadow = 1
Exar Kun = 1

Kenobi and Mace

Yoda
Dooku

mace and yoda

Dooku = 2
Yoda = 3
Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 3
Luke Skywalker = 1
Mace Windu = 3
Naga Sadow = 2
Exar Kun = 2


There's the scoresheet. My votes are for Kun and Naga since everything else is taken.

Sidious and nihilus

kun and nihilus

Dooku = 3
Yoda = 3
Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 3
Luke Skywalker = 1
Mace Windu = 3
Naga Sadow = 2
Exar Kun = 3
Nihilus= 2

Changed. But alas, we have too many.

Revan and Dooku

Originally posted by Fishy
Revan and Dooku

Revan's already through and so is Dooku. But we could use this as a tiebreaker.

Revan and Dooku are automatically in.

To many fancy words in the first post, I hardly understood it... So thats just how I voted, also I'm damn tired, so that might have helped too.

These people are in:

Dooku = 3
Yoda = 3
Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 3
Mace Windu = 3
Exar Kun = 3


These people need more votes:

Nihilus= 2
Naga Sadow = 2
Luke Skywalker = 1

Actually everyone should stop voting, as we already have 7 competitors.

Then let the games begin, or whatever it is, lol

I thought there were only supposed to be 6?

Janus is gonna pic six out of the possible choices.

Han Solo would get creamed by any of those four, unless it's pilotting the Millenium Falcon or Macho Points competition or Getting Laid by Leia.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Han Solo would get creamed by any of those four, unless it's pilotting the Millenium Falcon or Macho Points competition or Getting Laid by Leia.

Nah good old Han would just whip out a blaster and kill em all lol.

Hey anyone like my new Sig?

Its cool. Is it the guy from your story or was that the old guy?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Its cool. Is it the guy from your story or was that the old guy?

The dude with white hair and no he is not old he is only 24.

nice i like it

sweet the left guy looks life an elf with his ears legolas was my favorite and elves rock ass so yeeeuuuhhh its nice

luke dooku maul sids yoda plo koon mace anaken solo and vader

dooku
Jango fett
Darth maul
exar kun
obi-won
freedon Nadd

WO0ot for maul

Originally posted by Illustrious
These people are in:

Dooku = 3
Yoda = 3
Han Solo = 3
Revan = 3
Obi Wan Kenobi = 3
Mace Windu = 3
Exar Kun = 3


These people need more votes:

Nihilus= 2
Naga Sadow = 2
Luke Skywalker = 1

Actually everyone should stop voting, as we already have 7 competitors.

This is an accurate count, right? I kinda skimmed the posts.

Alright, time for phase two.

Let's deep six Solo since the rest being Force users kinda undermines his chances. He'll be an automatic out on the first test.

Okay, so the first challenge will commence. You must choose ONE person who will NOT pass on to the next round. Just one. Argue why they wouldn't make it, and others are free to argue (assuming they could) pass. But the verdict must be heavily in favor of one person being dropped, and then we move on to the next challenge.

Mkay, let me describe the first challenge. Keep in mind that the players know they are competing against one another, but let's assume they don't have time to duke it out in any kind of real fight. A little sabotage to stall another contestant is reasonable, if it can be done without the saboteur getting creamed.

Our players are as follows for round one:

-Dooku
-Obi-Wan
-Yoda
-Mace
-Revan
-Exar Kun

On some no-name planet, the humanoid denizens are in civil war. The capital city, a sprawling web of rather low tech homes, is being bombarded from above by a small fleet of gunships. Large bursts of energy are raining down on the city and basically shattering it to the ground. The locals and the invading army of droids are all equally hostile. Locals are armed with mostly small sidearms and some blaster rifles, while the droids (For simplicities' sake) are super battledroids and droidekas rolling in from all sides. The players are placed at random throughout the city in bombed out homes that have collapsed in and trapped them initially. Only five escape vessels are available for them to leave, but they are located outside of town, past the enemy lines and into the surrounding desert.

The question seems pretty simple: Who ISN'T gonna make it to those escape vessels?

I don't know I'd say Obi-Wan, but then again he is a master of Sorsue and since that is desined for blaster fire he should do ok.

Dooku should do fine seeing as he could use the force to push away whatever debrie had trapped him and so could Yoda. Now Yoda being his small size would have the greatest chance I think.

Now for Revan he could easily untrap himself from the debree and I think he could make it through the chaos of all the droids ect since Revan after all must have done some frontline fighting during the Mandalorian Wars. Exar Kun won't have a problem seeing he being as powerful as he is.

Now the problem is there are only five escape pods and that means that someone is gonna have to get wasted on the way. Now Revan, Dooku and Kun being the Sith that they are I think would team up to eliminate at least one of the Jedi most likley Obi-Wan then they head to escape pods. Mace and Yoda can take of themselves so they should have trouble dealing with any droids along the way.

Actually, I'm thinking Dooku would have the hardest time getting out of this mess. I hadn't intended it to be so, but in a raging firefight, he has the most chance of getting nailed. I'll think on it. Who else has any suggestions?

Hey Janus did you set to hide when your online or somthing?

So what happens next?

If I had to pick, it would be Dooku who is the odd man out, as Obi-Wan has handled himself in the clone wars admirably, and he has a defensive stance that allows for him to infiltrate through fields of blaster bolts.

Yeah, I'm disappointed that I don't get to show Naga Sadow's supremacy .

lol... Naga Sadow might be too strong, methinks. And we'll await some more ideas, but I think Dooku's out.

You two, if you have any suggestions for round two, PM me.

I must admit Janus this was a brilliant idea.

I got it from ESB's jedi trial, but I think this was a better way. I love elimination matches.

Dooku is out. I think that he would try to become the planets leader or something by killing all the droids or else he is not resourceful enough.

Not enough time for such things. Think quick tactics, people. This is a siege.

As we all continue to debate my hands are diligenly typing away Chapter 6 of Heartless the someday to be Fantasy series that will be on the New York times 1# list.

Someday. Keep plugging away. No author becomes number one without being persistant. Look at Patterson... the SOb makes a new novel every Wednesday.

Someone needs to invent a typing droid were all you do is tell it what to type in.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
lol... Naga Sadow might be too strong, methinks. And we'll await some more ideas, but I think Dooku's out.

You two, if you have any suggestions for round two, PM me.

I think so too, the guy just demonstrates too many godlike abilities: creating illusions, wielding sith magic, blowing up a star, warping Massassi slaves, and convincing another pilot to ram their starship into his archnemesis.

Yeah, my vote goes for Dooku being out, if that's inconclusive.

They have those. Ask the high priest of Artoo.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
They have those. Ask the high priest of Artoo.

You don't have to worship Artoo do you? Oh and Janus what do you think of my sig?

What? Break the Jawa code and not worship Artoo? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!

Originally posted by Illustrious
What? Break the Jawa code and not worship Artoo? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!

Hey buddy I ain't no Jawa so your Jawa code doesn't apply to me.

Uh huh. I do like your sig, but not liking Artoo is heinous crime in our books.

Let me introduce you to the hierarchy.

Artoo created the Jawas. Jawas then proceeded to create the force and the entire universe.

Therefore, we have the following:
Artoo
Jawas -- Artoo Priests
The force -- Everything else
Ewoks

So if you are not Jawas or Artoo priests, you are a lower brand.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Uh huh. I do like your sig, but not liking Artoo is heinous crime in our books.

The only part of SW I'm interested in is the Ancient Eras with Revan, Sadow and those dudes so naturally I worship T3 not Artoo.

T3 is in league with Artoo as the Astromech Gods.

Originally posted by Illustrious
T3 is in league with Artoo as the Astromech Gods.

I never knew that.

This is so.

My title is:

The Lord Emissary and High Priest of The Astromech Droid Gods

Thereby, I represent both The God Artoo and his cohorts.

well anyways...have any of you guys thought up Round 2 yet?

We prefer the term "Equal Opportunity Salvage Collectors and Disciples of the Astromech Pantheon"

I submitted a suggestion.

I suppose that means before guys like Nai or Fishy comment, we are dropping Dooku?

Yep I say Dooku is dropped...(damn Obi is tougher than I thought lol)

I think I am the fu**en Jawa Ambassador or something like that. Seems like Dipsit would be better at talking nicely to all those fu**en people. So much fu**en negoations. I mean, how the fu**en hell are we supposedly to have those damn comunications? We've lost all fu**en communication. Damn Ewoks. Woo Hoo!!

For the time being, Dooku is the weakest link. I'm not up for posting the entire next round tonight since it'll be much longer, but I'll have plenty of time tomorrow to get to it. And to give people a chance to argue the point. This isn't a race really, I did intend for some debating.

We're missing two heavy hitters in Nai and Fishy, give them the day to come up with some debates.

I agree. Well, adios folks... it's the bed for me.

Well night everyone I have work to do on my book.

make sure youy tell me when the next chapter is up!

Tomorrow?

Well...from the given circumstance I'd say Obi-Wan will be the one that loses here. Because:

a)
All the Sith would simply cut through everything that is in their way while the Jedi might tend to spare the lifes of the humans running around there. At least Obi-Wan will do that. Now that makes it tougher for him to get out of this alive because he needs more time to use a mind-trick or sneak past the enemy lines than one of the Sith will need to cut through some citizens and droids.

b)
He is the weakest person here when it comes to force powers.

c)
He is the weakest person when it comes to a duel.

d)
He is the best when it comes to defense against blasters.

While point d might be enough to compensate the disadvantages from point a - so that Obi might arive at the escape vessels the same time the other get there - he will (see points b and c) get creamed there in a duel at least. So I'd say they all make it out of the city but than the weakest duellist has to stay (Obi-Wan in this case).

Janus Janus Janus.Your so naive You me Dipsit,we all tried this out before.Did it work?No.You might as well smack them...If i must choose(and i'll do it for old times sake )I'm with Obi Wan.Yep.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Well...from the given circumstance I'd say Obi-Wan will be the one that loses here. Because:

a)
All the Sith would simply cut through everything that is in their way while the Jedi might tend to spare the lifes of the humans running around there. At least Obi-Wan will do that. Now that makes it tougher for him to get out of this alive because he needs more time to use a mind-trick or sneak past the enemy lines than one of the Sith will need to cut through some citizens and droids.

b)
He is the weakest person here when it comes to force powers.

c)
He is the weakest person when it comes to a duel.

d)
He is the best when it comes to defense against blasters.


While point d might be enough to compensate the disadvantages from point a - so that Obi might arive at the escape vessels the same time the other get there - he will (see points b and c) get creamed there in a duel at least. So I'd say they all make it out of the city but than the weakest duellist has to stay (Obi-Wan in this case).

I'm going with Dooku on this one. Or, more aptly, against him.

a) Everyone will either cut, sneak, or somehow manipulate their way through. However, I think that it is places like this that Obi-Wan truly excels. large groups with hundreds firing blasters like there's no tomorrow? Crowds of people all swarming like bugs to carcasses? Dooku's Makashi skill is going to be tested here, requiring him to use tons of wide, crazy swings to "cut through everything", use his all in Force power to throw obsatcles aside, and deflect a thousand blaster bolts. I don't think he's going to be very comfortable here.

b) Not going to matter all too much considering his amazing blaster-deflection skills put him in a very good position.

c) Same as above. And a duel is unlikely considering the circumstances.

d) True.

I highly doubt that anyone's going to bother attempting a duel with Kenobi. they probably consider him the lesser threat, which in some ways, he is. one of the Sith would probably try to dislodge him with a bolt of lighting, however. But that'd be just somewhat difficult considering there're thousands of organics, droids, etc. in the way. And Obi-Wan has been in such objective-based missions before. I think he can pull this off.

And he'll be willing to do what's necessary, even if it means killing a human. he's done it, as has Mace, and Yoda.

Yoda, Mace, Revan, Exar Kun they all make it, they are extremely powerful fast and better then most others.

Now everybody here debates between Dooku and Obi Wan, and I have to agree. Obi Wan being an obvious choice because he is weak compared to the others here. But he is great at deflecting blaster bolts, especially when he's drunk. So he could get through, but could Dooku while using the force move fast enough to reach it before Obi Wan does.

Dooku would manage if he could sneak around and take out as few enemy's as possible and if he would do it fast. Obi Wan could move more directly, like the other Sith and he would probably get to the exit and out of trouble faster then Dooku would. Dooku his only chance would be to stop Obi Wan somehow, but I don't think he's going to pull that off in an area like that.

So i'm saying Dooku is out, and Obi Wan manages to stay in. Sucks for Dooku as he is clearly better, but the environment makes up for a lot.

Originally posted by Fishy
Yoda, Mace, Revan, Exar Kun they all make it, they are extremely powerful fast and better then most others.

Now everybody here debates between Dooku and Obi Wan, and I have to agree. Obi Wan being an obvious choice because he is weak compared to the others here. But he is great at deflecting blaster bolts, especially when he's drunk. So he could get through, but could Dooku while using the force move fast enough to reach it before Obi Wan does.

Dooku would manage if he could sneak around and take out as few enemy's as possible and if he would do it fast. Obi Wan could move more directly, like the other Sith and he would probably get to the exit and out of trouble faster then Dooku would. Dooku his only chance would be to stop Obi Wan somehow, but I don't think he's going to pull that off in an area like that.

So i'm saying Dooku is out, and Obi Wan manages to stay in. Sucks for Dooku as he is clearly better, but the environment makes up for a lot.

I disagree with you. Dooku would be able to get out since he would be the more willing to take a life, and was very adapt in using force attacks. Obi Wan would be very reluctant to kill someone who was just in his way, and would have a hard time getting around everything.

Dooku has the better chance of living because of his ability to use the froce as a potent weapon, while Obi would not have that same ability. It comes dow nto who would use the most tricks at hand ,and Dooku has the advantage when it comes to that. Dooku will get there before Obi and Obi's done.

How so? Dooku his force push would be more powerful but Obi will have less trouble reflecting attacks? Obi is hesitant to take the lives of innocent peole, but he has never shown any doubt in killing somebody when it was needed. I mean for christ sake he took Anakin his life, for as far as he knew. That was harder then killing anybody else. He won't hold back, he will still push people out of the way. And Dooku his superior connection to the force will be nice at first, but it won't get him through the heavier area's, area's that Obi Wan would pass far easier.

Originally posted by Fishy
How so? Dooku his force push would be more powerful but Obi will have less trouble reflecting attacks? Obi is hesitant to take the lives of innocent peole, but he has never shown any doubt in killing somebody when it was needed. I mean for christ sake he took Anakin his life, for as far as he knew. That was harder then killing anybody else. He won't hold back, he will still push people out of the way. And Dooku his superior connection to the force will be nice at first, but it won't get him through the heavier area's, area's that Obi Wan would pass far easier.

As you said, he qwould be hesitant, but your overrating his ability to take lives. He is not that kind of person, and will bogged down in places where Dooku would excel in. Now, for the heavy areas, Dooku will have trouble, but he will still make it before Obi. Obi can block blaster bolts and all, but he will get slowed down by it, since his style is not agressive he would get bogged down by sustained fire. Dooku would not be hesitant to send out some force lightning o get rid of someone shooting at him. He would not hesitate to throw things at others or to kill innocents. Obi would have difficulty with these situations since he was taught to not take lives adn try to find a peaceful situation, while Dooku dropped that philosphy and will kill with no remorse or hesitation.

You think Dooku would shock his way through hundreds of people his lightning isn't that powerful, besides if the fight is really that bad leaving your defense open for a second might prove fatal. Especially with Dooku who isn't the greatest one in defending anyways.

Obi-Wan has this. He survived Geonosis, which was one of the toughest battles a Jedi could face. Imagine being surrounded by thousands of Droids and deflecting so many blasters at once, he is more than ready for some small arms fire. If they were fighting lightsaber or sword-wielding enemies, then Dooku would clearly win, but due to the type of enemy they're fighting, Obi-Wan has this. Not even due to form, but due to experience in this type of situation.

Also remember that Obi-Wan has experience running through desert like conditions, so I think he is better conditioned, at least physically, for this kind of situation.

And the one thing I see you guys overlooking is that while Obi-Wan may be "hesitant" to take lives, all he will have to worry about is crossfire. The situation is a CIVIL war, these people are fighting others, not the Force users. The second someone like Dooku, Revan, or Exar takes a life, they will be viewed as an imminent threat and fired upon. Someone like Yoda or Obi-Wan, who simply deflects away blasters, will be able to pass far more easily.

Again, I'll have to take Dooku as the low man on this one.

I must still vote against Obi-Wan here.

I know that Dooku is not as good in blaster defence. But does this really matter ? Look how he puts Anakin out of battle in AotC what might be easier against non force users. Look how he threw Obi-Wan around in the ROTS fight. I'm pretty sure he can get out of that arena without having to worry much about blasterfire because he can pretty much obliterate everyone in his way and he will do that.

Now Obi-Wan won't kill not even hurt anybody - only if there is really no other way. That's quite obvious if you have a look at ANH - the easy way is not his way and because of this I think he will need longer to get out the area than Dooku will need.

I look on the situation this way: Nothing there will stop a force user so it only matters who can get rid of the droids / people faster. Since a Sith won't care much about what will happen to the people they all will manage to escape pretty fast while Mace and Yoda are simply too strong to lose much time. So Obi-Wan and Dooku might be the slowest people here but I think Dooku will make it faster than Obi-Wan because he won't care about what happens to the people why Obi-Wan will.

Originally posted by Fishy
You think Dooku would shock his way through hundreds of people his lightning isn't that powerful, besides if the fight is really that bad leaving your defense open for a second might prove fatal. Especially with Dooku who isn't the greatest one in defending anyways.

Dooku's Lightning is nearly close to being on par with Sidious'. We have already confirmed this.

And for those of you who think Dooku cannot deflect blaster bolts ARE ON F*CKING CRACK!

Just because Dooku has mastered a Form that expresses Lightsaber-to-Lightsaber combat doesn't mean he can't deflect blaster bolts. Hell, for all we know, he can use Soresu. And he sure as hell wasn't using Form II on episode III.

Dooku can deflect blaster bolts. That's just all there is to it.

I think you are wrong there, Obi indeed didn't hurt anybody in ANH, but before that he seemed to have had less trouble with it. I mean he slaughtered his way through a lot of clones i'm sure he could have gone around that as well if he tried. Well actually i'm not sure, but I think he could... The idea I get from him however is that he cared less about it back then, then he did in ANH.

And yeah Dooku could take care of a lot of people easier then Obi Wan, but eventually he might get tired or his attacks wouldn't effect enough people. Besides if this is a street war its going to be hard to kill people with the force because you ussually don't know where they are coming from until its to late. The thing is, I think he's a great fighter just not as good in mass battles as somebody like Obi Wan. Even if he is highly superior in one on one combat.

So if Dooku could reach Obi Wan then he would pass, but I don't think he will, so i'm guessing Dooku is out.

Well we'll just see when everybody has voted and we go to round two

Originally posted by Fishy
I think you are wrong there, Obi indeed didn't hurt anybody in ANH, but before that he seemed to have had less trouble with it. I mean he slaughtered his way through a lot of clones i'm sure he could have gone around that as well if he tried. Well actually i'm not sure, but I think he could... The idea I get from him however is that he cared less about it back then, then he did in ANH.

- clones are no "normal" human beings
- the only clones he killed where those guarding the Jedi Temple (together with Yoda) and that was absolutely necessary

Actually we never saw Obi-Wan kill humans anywhere. He cut some limbs off (headhuntress arm in AotC + Anakins legs in ROTS + arm of that guy in ANH) but he never killed anyone.



He can just destroy entire houses or throw people around / toast them by using the force and this can be done nearly without any effort by Dooku. As I said... I believe he can get out of it without having to worry much about blasterfire.

In the worst case (for Dooku) he and Obi-Wan will come out of this thing at the same moment and than it's a duel between them who will escape and there is no way that Obi can take that...

Originally posted by Fishy
I think you are wrong there, Obi indeed didn't hurt anybody in ANH, but before that he seemed to have had less trouble with it. I mean he slaughtered his way through a lot of clones i'm sure he could have gone around that as well if he tried. Well actually i'm not sure, but I think he could... The idea I get from him however is that he cared less about it back then, then he did in ANH.

And yeah Dooku could take care of a lot of people easier then Obi Wan, but eventually he might get tired or his attacks wouldn't effect enough people. Besides if this is a street war its going to be hard to kill people with the force because you ussually don't know where they are coming from until its to late. The thing is, I think he's a great fighter just not as good in mass battles as somebody like Obi Wan. Even if he is highly superior in one on one combat.

So if Dooku could reach Obi Wan then he would pass, but I don't think he will, so i'm guessing Dooku is out.

Well we'll just see when everybody has voted and we go to round two

How do you know Dooku isn't as good as Obi Wan in the masses? That is a very poor assumption.

We saw Dooku take on two fellows with Lightsabers twice, and like i said, for all we know, he has mastered all the forms, because he used a different Form in ROTS.

Originally posted by Sorgo
How do you know Dooku isn't as good as Obi Wan in the masses? That is a very poor assumption.

We saw Dooku take on two fellows with Lightsabers twice, and like i said, for all we know, he has mastered all the forms, because he used a different Form in ROTS.

The different form that got him killed. While it may be an assumption to say that he isn't good with the masses, it would be an even bigger assumption to say he is, as we've never seen it.

Not to mention that the only form he has mastered doesn't really excel on taking on groups... Its a form for lightsaber duels, There wouldn't be any lightsaber duels there.

Originally posted by Illustrious
The different form that got him killed. While it may be an assumption to say that he isn't good with the masses, it would be an even bigger assumption to say he is, as we've never seen it. You mean the different form that almost killed Anakin several times during their Final duel? Oh, okay then.

No, it would not be a bigger assumption. It would be the same, being as we haven't seen him in the masses. Saying that he is poor or better are both the same level. Don't say mine is bigger to back up the other Assumption. Not very good.

Originally posted by Fishy
Not to mention that the only form he has mastered doesn't really excel on taking on groups... Its a form for lightsaber duels, There wouldn't be any lightsaber duels there.



Right. Unfortunately, with over eighty years of Experience of a Jedi, it's safe to assume he knows more than one form, especially considering he used a different Form against Anakin and Obi in ROTS.

Originally posted by Sorgo
You mean the different form that almost killed Anakin several times during their Final duel? Oh, okay then.

No, it would not be a bigger assumption. It would be the same, being as we haven't seen him in the masses. Saying that he is poor or better are both the same level. Don't say mine is bigger to back up the other Assumption. Not very good.

He lost because he used that form, he should have won. He has not mastered anything besides Form II Mastering a form is incredibly hard, and he wouldn't have had any reasons to master any other form.

And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

I could assume Anakin has some "chosen one" ability that can instakill a Jedi. But I've never seen it. By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could.

What we have seen takes precedence over what we haven't seen.

Originally posted by Fishy
He lost because he used that form, he should have won. He has not mastered anything besides Form II Mastering a form is incredibly hard, and he wouldn't have had any reasons to master any other form.

And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

He used the Form on purpose, because he wanted to lose, but he didn't want to die. His plans got changed on him.

What you know? We have seen him fight two people at the same time. That could possibly lean him to being good against the masses, it wouldn't make that assumption worse.

Originally posted by Illustrious
I could assume Anakin has some "chosen one" ability that can instakill a Jedi. But I've never seen it. By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could.

What we have seen takes precedence over what we haven't seen.


By that logic, it would be an equal assumption to say he can't as to say he could. Now what the hell did i say in my post before this one? Christ....

So you are right now suggesting, that he used a form he MASTERED hoping to lose? Of course not, why would he do that? He wouldn't have any reason to use a form he mastered if he wanted to lose, he could have kept fighting the same way. Fact is there is absolutely nothing to suggest he has mastered more then one form. Absolutely nothing.

And two people and masses are a huge difference, I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference? His style isn't meant to fight several people and it isn't meant to deflect blaster bolts either. A few won't proof a problem but hundreds, that would.

Now Obi Wan on the other hand excels in it.

Originally posted by Fishy
And yes it would be, because what we know of Dooku seems to suggest that he isn't good in masses instead of the other way around.

Erm...

Dooku survived the Battle of Galidraan that was basically a "streetwar" between Jedi and Mandalorians and half of the Jedi died in i while only two Mandalorians survived. So...why should Dooku go down against normal people or battle droids if he can obviously survive a battle with dozens of Mandalorian involved ?

I'm not saying he would go down, i'm just saying that with his style he would probably take a longer time then Obi Wan would, who could move faster through the masses because of his lightsaber style, deflecting blaster bolts is going to be useful here. Now of course Dooku could use the force, but that could leave you open and that might proof fatal if he does it at the wrong time. He would survive, but I don't think he would be as fast as Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Fishy
So you are right now suggesting, that he used a form he MASTERED hoping to lose? Of course not, why would he do that? He wouldn't have any reason to use a form he mastered if he wanted to lose, he could have kept fighting the same way. Fact is there is absolutely nothing to suggest he has mastered more then one form. Absolutely nothing.

And two people and masses are a huge difference, I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference? His style isn't meant to fight several people and it isn't meant to deflect blaster bolts either. A few won't proof a problem but hundreds, that would.

Now Obi Wan on the other hand excels in it.

He didn't use Makashi during their fight. Do you not get it yet? He used a different Form, which obviously proves that he knows more than one Form.

Maybe he did master the form he used. How in the hell would you know?

If he used a different Form, and could still use it to hold off a Jedi Master and a Jedi Knight at the same time, he has to have some degree in skill with the other Form, Correct?

I can beat up two five year old children but I could never beat up a hundred of them at the same time. See the difference?

No, The Analogy mean't moot and i don't have relevant proof to faction whether you can kick two children's asses. For one, Obi Wan and Anakin aren't children and they could kick Dooku's ass in a fist fight and if two children have Lightsabers, how do you know you will win? Huh?

The Analogy is way off to the circumstances of what we are talking about.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Erm...

Dooku survived the Battle of Galidraan that was basically a "streetwar" between Jedi and Mandalorians and half of the Jedi died in i while only two Mandalorians survived. So...why should Dooku go down against normal people or battle droids if he can obviously survive a battle with dozens of Mandalorian involved ?

Padme survived the battle of Geonosis, does that mean she's awesome at blocking blasters? Not necessarily. We have to know the circumstances.

Is it possible Dooku knows other forms and can use Soresu yes, but proof isn't there, where we have it for Obi-Wan.

I never said he didn't know more then one form.



He lost didn't he?



I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.



What kind of stupid thing to say is that, Dooku owned Obi Wan and Anakin they were like children compared to him.. And of course I could beat up two five year olds. And why the hell would they have lightsabers? And why wouldn't Dooku and Obi and Anakin have lightsabers?

And what the hell does that have to do with.

Just because you can defeat two people, doesn't mean you can defeat a hundred. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by Fishy
I'm not saying he would go down, i'm just saying that with his style he would probably take a longer time then Obi Wan would, who could move faster through the masses because of his lightsaber style, deflecting blaster bolts is going to be useful here. Now of course Dooku could use the force, but that could leave you open and that might proof fatal if he does it at the wrong time. He would survive, but I don't think he would be as fast as Obi Wan.

He doesn't even need to use his lightsaber. Imagine a street filled with people and droids (who are fighting each other). Now Dooku steps in uses a massive force push (we saw how far he could throw Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin away) and clears the entire street. He could also use lightning or simply jump to the top of a building and jump from rooftop to rooftop.

Fact that matters (for me): Dooku will simply manage to get everything that is in his way out of his way without caring much how he does it while Obi-Wan will try to not hurt / kill people what will make him slower than Dooku. It's like two people running over a street filled with insects: One likes insects very much and doesn't want to hurt them while the other simply don't cares - who will cross the street faster ?

Originally posted by Fishy
I never said he didn't know more then one form.



He lost didn't he?



I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.



What kind of stupid thing to say is that, Dooku owned Obi Wan and Anakin they were like children compared to him.. And of course I could beat up two five year olds. And why the hell would they have lightsabers? And why wouldn't Dooku and Obi and Anakin have lightsabers?

And what the hell does that have to do with.

Just because you can defeat two people, doesn't mean you can defeat a hundred. Its as simple as that.

You're missing the point. Dooku fighting the two isn't near what you would do if you were to fight two children.


He lost didn't he?

Yup. His wrists were pretty much grabbed by someone who is physically stronger than him. HMM....

It wasn't Dooku's plan to get cut up. Watch the fight again. You would be suprised how many times he had a chance to take Anakin out and he wasn't even using Form II.

I could be mistaking but he didn't use that form from the beginning and he used the force more in the beginning of the fight.

He used only a little bit of Form II during the beginning, because he was fighting two opponents.

The Force? Uh, no. He used it to throw Obi Wan under a large platform, which was after he used his SUPA SITH BACK KICK to throw Anakin into a wall. Do you ever wonder why Dooku didn't just leave Obi Wan when he hit the holster of the platform? He had the chance to fry Anakins ass with Lightning while Anakin was crying over his scrapped knee on the ground. Hmm.... Maybe he didn't want Anakin dead during the fight.... hmm....

You could be right, but it would depend on how the street looks, I mean a city during a civil war would have a lot of ruined buildings and people hiding in the ruins, a force push probably won't clear the street because not a lot of people will be in the street.

Okay. Since it's pretty much down to Obi-Wan or Dooku, let's open up the voting.

You are voting for who DOES NOT make it to the pod, aka eliminated.

I'll start:

Obi-Wan 0
Dooku 1

Copy the tally when you make a new post.

Dooku dies.

Agreed, Illustrious. I want debate, but back and forth on the same topics let's avoid that. I'm sensing a lot of division here and we need to move on. My vote is AGAINST Dooku, for many reasons I'm willing to list but not willing to argue at this time (I AM at work right now..) so it's now two against Dooku, zero against Obi-wan as of my posting.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Agreed, Illustrious. I want debate, but back and forth on the same topics let's avoid that. I'm sensing a lot of division here and we need to move on. My vote is AGAINST Dooku, for many reasons I'm willing to list but not willing to argue at this time (I AM at work right now..) so it's now two against Dooku, zero against Obi-wan as of my posting.

Well.... One against Obi Wan, actually.

Against Dooku= 3
Against Obi-Wan= 1

Obi-Wan 1
Dooku 3

That's how it stands as of this second.

EDIT: damn you Janus.

I am hella fast.

When no customers are calling.

I'm letting the vote continue until for about another two hours, maybe two and a half. It's rounded up about 5 PM eastern. At 7 or 7:30 I'll write up Round Two.

Count Dooku Luke Skywalker (NJO) vs Yoda and Mace Windu

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
Count Dooku Luke Skywalker (NJO) vs Yoda and Mace Windu

What does this have to do with anything?

well the topic of this thread....a decent vs thread.....

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
well the topic of this thread....a decent vs thread.....

OMG... Why do people do this?

READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE REPLYING!

Damn, I'm not asking you to do anything that common sense shouldn't.

Obi-Wan 2
Dooku 3

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
OMG... Why do people do this?

READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE REPLYING!

Damn, I'm not asking you to do anything that common sense shouldn't.


And you said i was cranky today! YIKES!


All shall run because the Jawa Masters are in bad moods today!


SCRAMBLE!

Well dude, that is ridiculous to totally skip the first post and just post something random. It's insulting to those of us who took the time to read.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Obi-Wan 2
Dooku 3

Obi Wan= 3

Dooku= 3

uh oh, it's getting close.

Originally posted by Illustrious
uh oh, it's getting close.


What happened to the Jawas?

Jawas are divided when it comes to Obi-Wan and Dooku. Those are two very cool dudes in direct competition.

But I blame those who voted for the likes of Exar Kun and Revan. Of course those two will survive the first trial. It's the easiest one.

And no one has commented on my five minute sig. Pfft.

It's a very nice sig.

It...is a very nice sig.

The top text kinda messes it up. It's a picture of Hitler in a car saluting, with the heads substituted with Tarkin, Dooku, and Sidious, of course.

Should we limit the voting to only those who contribute arguments?

Perhaps. But if that's the case we should consider each voter listing certain bullet point inferences and facts that make this person the loser.

well its primarily to stop the flow of fanboys who have nothing but a name from flooding the thread with their votes.

Agreed. I reserve the right to ignore votes if they're clearly not thought out or just at random. Since everyone who has voted thus far I know (somewhat) and they have more likely than not considered the matter, all votes as of now stay.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Should we limit the voting to only those who contribute arguments?


My vote counts, damnit! I contributed semantics! I deserve praise!

Erm... We don't offer praise. How about a Bib Fortuna action figure?

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Erm... We don't offer praise. How about a Bib Fortuna action figure?


My vote had better f*cking count, or i am gonna TWEAK!

Here, tweak this action figure.

And yes, it does count. So far I have votes from

Me
Nai
Fishy
Illustrious
Sorgo (You, btw)
and someone else... I'm thinking it's Rayvann, but I forgot already.

When I get a vote from someone with numbers in their name or Denisrodmanrulez then I'm gonna start asking questions.

Yeah, it was Rayvann.

What do you have against Dennis Rodman?

Oh wait... don't answer that.

...

*Can't answer that. Damn Force suggestion.*

Artoo at work.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Yeah, it was Rayvann.

Nice to know people remember me.

Originally posted by Rayvann Sadow
Nice to know people remember me.

you're welcome.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Here, tweak this action figure.

And yes, it does count. So far I have votes from

Me
Nai
Fishy
Illustrious
Sorgo (You, btw)
and someone else... I'm thinking it's Rayvann, but I forgot already.

When I get a vote from someone with numbers in their name or Denisrodmanrulez then I'm gonna start asking questions.

Someone else would be me.