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Here's a curious question...WHAT WERE YOU RAISED AS

How many people have once been Christians or other and changed their Beliefs or views and why?

What were you, and why were you that....And why the change....

And what would it take to change your belief?

And is change good?

I was a Christan, but now I am a Buddhist. This change was, for me, the best thing I could do in my life. The type of Christianity I was raised with was based on suffering for Jesus and that he would return by the year 2000. This was for me, as a child, a stone around my neck. We were supposed to be separate from everyone else. The women were not to speak in church and covered their heads. The men were to be preachers if they could. What this did to people was as close to evil as I have ever seen.

I was raised atheist and made a choice to follow Jesus by doing the will of the father in heaven. The Holy Scriptures and the Living Christ has always been there for me when the world got me down. Praise the Lord!

I was raised Christian, and now I'm something that I'm not sure of. I sort of believe that all gods have existed and that they are really just manifestations of our imagination. So in short, I sort of believe in all gods and no gods.

Yes, I can be somewhat confusing.

was raised a christian, had christianity as a mandatory subject each day for nine years in school. Started to look behind the christianity and biblical stuff and just saw how , to me , ridiculous the entire stuff was, or in other words I grew up

Well I was Baptised Catholic, though it was kept secret from me when my dad married my stepmother who was Pentecostal...So I heard many fire and brimstone sermons...I grew up with the "Demons are everywhere" stuff and also doing things to you and people are being possessed and even attended services where they had supposedly casted one out....OH..and I was accused of being possessed along with my father and his work partner.... Freaky Stuff!..cause they said that if you weren't a strong Christian, it would jump into you...or in your house....and I slept in a basement room.......EEEKK!...They had a big barrel that you stood in line for to drop in money into to get a healing...You weren't allowed to have images or even tattooed images of god on you....funny thing was my dad being raised Catholic had a huge crucified Christ on is forearm...which at one point was told he should get it removed or even cut it off....WOW...He didn't though....Later I attended many different types of churches and saw the discrepancies of the doctrines, so I started to study them all...This is truly not allowed to do so, but did it anyway...then I read even more things with science and history trying to make sense of things....so, now I'm a heretic....Very Special...indeed...

I try not to have any belifes.I just go with the flow of things and don't conform to any one way.Sometimes I feel Gnostic and other times Pagan and other times Buhddist.I just can't stay with one teaching though.I have to stay a free spirit.

Skepticism, critical thinking, logic and reason made me reject the religion I was raised in.

I grew up a christian and still are but are thankful that while I was very young my father left the Pentecostal church because there was too much politics and interpretations of the scriptures. He read the Bible to us until we were old enough to read ourselves and taught us the teachings of Jesus when we came together for in the evenings. I am thankful that I was spared the ridiculous fight amongst denominations and the twisting of the Bible. He taught us that you can serve and worship God in the privacy of your own home too and grow spiritually. We did attend a few services hear and there were I witnessed several miracles including a personal experience. I changed my religion for a lifestyle and changed my view of having to belong to a specific church because the kingdom of God is not a church.

in other words he influenced you

I was born from a Christian family.
I was introduced into different religions through my school and classmates.
I was indoctrinated in our Church at the age of 13.
I was baptized in our Church at the age of 14.

I was told to remain in God's will.
And I'm still enjoying my life at the same time.
I live in a happy family and a harmonious one.

I'm lucky enough I belong to Christ's Kingdom.
And I still didn't find any reason to change it.

I thank God for His guidance and all His blessings.

I really haven't change much. Just learned some new stuff. I hate to be dismissive of the stuff I've learned in my life. And I don't think is about growing up. You just learn new things. That is all. Besides don't matter what you think...you still gonna die sometime. Live and enjoy it. That's how I see it.

Ohh..btw-I was raised in between Catholic and Hebrew.....yup, I'm one of those.

You are special aren't you???

Umm..in what way would you see me as special?

Originally posted by WindDancer
.....yup, I'm one of those.


Because.....^^
That's all...just kidding...

I see...

hebrew as in that group that say they descend from Jacob?

christian. still am christian but getting stronger in my faith

SpellJammer's beliefs matured, they never changed. (Well, sense they matured SpellJammer guesses they did change, whatever! )

Mom raised SpellJammer open to all points of view, we had friends and family of differant religons. Mostly Christians, and we were not personaly. And both sides were okay with this. We had differances, and we realized that's what made us special..

What bothers SpellJammer is this hatred towards spirituality especialy towards Christianity. What are people so damn afraid of?! SpellJammer know hate has no bearing on logic or reason but Jesus Christ man, when you can honostly believe the shit you spew about how "Well the Christians did this and the Islams did that and--"

What's that got to do with you, SpellJammer, God, and those other people sitting over there? Did any of us rape and pillage a village? Did any of us enforce our beliefs on the populace?

Instead of wasting your time dwelling on the negative like some damn emo, you should appreciate the variety of beliefs that are out there. Every one filled with ideas and stories that stimulate the mind and leave you with a sense of positive feeling. Wether it's true or not is irrelevant, you're around friends, family, and you're talking about God. Who is good. Therfore you're sorrounding yourself with good.

But SpellJammer thinks it'll take alot more then simple step-by-step introductions to get some people to see that. Some people just like to be miserable..

Originally posted by finti
in other words he influenced you
Yes, and I thank God for that because it made me a person with strong inner value system that can be strong when things go wrong and who know's what I believe in and why without jumping from one side of the camp to the other and never have anything stable in my life. It is called bringing up your children in the way that you believe because you believe in God and thus giving them the best chance on life they will ever have.

My parents "gave me the best chance in life" by not indoctrinating me with other people's beliefs and allowing me to develop my own. I was never forced to follow their beliefs although I have adopted those I agree with. I wasn't raised to follow any of the organised religions and I don't intend on following one any time in the future. I usually find their beliefs too simplistic, rigid and absolute, and I find the literal reading of the allegories that occurs all too often off-putting. I hold my own set of values and ethical beliefs developed from both an innate sense of morality and from interactions with people I know and love. These are subject to change as new information arises - as should be all beliefs in my opinion. The world isn't black and white - it is a myriad of greys and each different situation warrants different consideration.

or as I would put it influence your kids into a doctrine for so long they swallow anything as truth about their way.....and how can they say giving them the best chance to a life they will ever have when they havent gotten the chance to try something else

Originally posted by finti
or as I would put it influence your kids into a doctrine for so long they swallow anything as truth about their way.....and how can they say giving them the best chance to a life they will ever have when they havent gotten the chance to try something else
I believe in God and Jesus as the way to life and my children will be brought up the same because that is the will of God. If they chose otherwise when the leave my house oneday that will be their choice but as their mother I will never stop praying for my children to stay on the way to everlasting life with God.

sounds more like it is your will

Originally posted by finti
or as I would put it influence your kids into a doctrine for so long they swallow anything as truth about their way.....and how can they say giving them the best chance to a life they will ever have when they havent gotten the chance to try something else
I suppose you will urge your children one day to try out drugs and alchohol abuse and sexual pervertions just so that they can have the chance to try something different other than having to live the boring old "safe and usual" life. Or will you teach them what you believe is best for them.

Originally posted by finti
sounds more like it is your will
The Bible tells us it is the will of God.

there is a diffrence between chemical substances and that of faith and not having faith, yet I can se the simmilarities between one who is influenced by heavy drugs and one who is influenced by religion.

When it comes to alcohol abuse and sexual perversions any one with a tiny bit of commen sence can draw the line of their personal tolerance of that matter. And life aint boring just because participate in any of the actions mentioned aint a part they are inolved, Im not for alcohol abuse nor sexcual perversion still dont live no dull life.

Originally posted by sonnet
I suppose you will urge your children one day to try out drugs and alchohol abuse and sexual pervertions just so that they can have the chance to try something different other than having to live the boring old "safe and usual" life. Or will you teach them what you believe is best for them.

You can live a very moral life and not be raised religious.....In fact you can look inside many religious homes and be horrified.

You can't lump a who group together....According to scripture even over eating is a sin....gluttony....and NONE are allowed in heaven as well....Ouch...There goes the Baptist......

Originally posted by finti
there is a diffrence between chemical substances and that of faith and not having faith, yet I can se the simmilarities between one who is influenced by heavy drugs and one who is influenced by religion.

When it comes to alcohol abuse and sexual perversions any one with a tiny bit of commen sence can draw the line of their personal tolerance of that matter. And life aint boring just because participate in any of the actions mentioned aint a part they are inolved, Im not for alcohol abuse nor sexcual perversion still dont live no dull life.
Exactly. I believe that by giving them a foundation in life and in my case it is religion, I am preparing them to make good decisions about any life situation. You believe you can do the same without religion, if it works for you then great!

Originally posted by debbiejo
You can live a very moral life and not be raised religious.....In fact you can look inside many religious homes and be horrified.


That is very true, but we all do the best we can and just because people make mistakes I will not through away religion. That will be like throwing the baby out with the water in the tub.

Originally posted by sonnet
Exactly. I believe that by giving them a foundation in life and in my case it is religion, I am preparing them to make good decisions about any life situation. You believe you can do the same without religion, if it works for you then great!

I agree with you. I just chose a positive religion, Nichiren Buddhism as apposed to what I believe to be a negative religion, Christianity, at least it was very negative for me.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Here's a curious question...WHAT WERE YOU RAISED AS

How many people have once been Christians or other and changed their Beliefs or views and why?

What were you, and why were you that....And why the change....

And what would it take to change your belief?

And is change good?

My parents are loose Protestants...

I'm Ahisest, simply because I just don't believe in any of it.

Originally posted by sonnet
That is very true, but we all do the best we can and just because people make mistakes I will not through away religion. That will be like throwing the baby out with the water in the tub.

OK...I know people do what they think is right, right? Of course.....I always thought children should be taught HOW to think and not WHAT to think....At least that's my motto here.

I think it is easier to do it without religion

I can be very lucky there isn't a real hell or heaven, or a god for that matter, 'cause if there was a god, he would've struck me dead on the spot so many times for my blasphemous character.

if I understood you right youre married and your husband doesnt share your religious belief, aint he got a say in how to bring up the children when it comes to a religious upbringing or not?

Originally posted by finti
if I understood you right youre married and your husband doesnt share your religious belief, aint he got a say in how to bring up the children when it comes to a religious upbringing or not?
Strangely, he is ok with me bringing them up as christians because he was brought up as one and knows the value of having that support system in your life. Which makes me think that he is not so sure about things in his new beliefs as he wishes us to believe. As I said before I teach my daughter, and will do so with the one on the way, about the teachings of Jesus about love, forgiveness, righteousness etc.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
--- 1 Peter 3:1 ---

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--- 1 Timothy 2:11-12 ---

Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church.
--- Ephesians 5:22-23 ---

It is better to live in a corner of the roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman.
--- Proverbs 25:24 ---

Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
--- 1 Corinthians 11:9 ---

Just thought these interesting.....Lol

dont need to involve religion to teach the 3 latter part

when kids are indoctrinated into a religion they feel they betray their family if they dont agree with their views when they are old enough to decide for themselves.
Instead of teach them about more than one view on this subject and make them choose what they feel is right for them when they reach that age where they choose their ways

even the gospels indicates that it wasnt "winter" time at the alleged birth of jesus

Otherwise their they wouldn't be out in the field with their flocks...

right

Originally posted by debbiejo
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
--- 1 Peter 3:1 ---

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--- 1 Timothy 2:11-12 ---

Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church.
--- Ephesians 5:22-23 ---

It is better to live in a corner of the roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman.
--- Proverbs 25:24 ---
Just thought these interesting.....Lol
These scriptures are all written for believers both the wife and husband. It clearly says that the woman should submit to the husband as unto the lord, while the husband is in comparison to Christ as head of the home, also called the priest of the home. My husband is not a believer so I am submitted to Christ only as my husband does not submit to Christ. Many people does not understand this and thinks that God gave woman instruction to submit to men who does not honour God or Jesus. It mentions the example of Sarah and Abraham. Well we all know who Abraham was and his relationship with God. The part about woman not to teach is about teaching in church and congregations or to be in a authoritative position over the men, and we all know that many woman in those times were illiterate. But there are many scriptures were God instructs the mother to teach her children in the ways of God.

we know the tales yes, who he was no

Those were the days my friend,
We'd thought they'd never end,
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose,
We'd fight and never lose,

Originally posted by debbiejo
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--- 1 Timothy 2:11-12 ---


How interesting how this one goes against the OT Judges and Prophetesses....


Originally posted by finti
Those were the days my friend,
We'd thought they'd never end,
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose,
We'd fight and never lose,

Change is good..

not always

Originally posted by debbiejo
How interesting how this one goes against the OT Judges and Prophetesses....




Change is good..
You steem to have forgotten that the OT was the old covenant and the Isralites were under the law. When Jesus came he fulfilled the law and set us free. This also meant that women could become disciples and bring the gospel. The big issue is about teaching in the temple or church which was not permitted for woman as it would place them in a authoritative position over men. Also because woman were mostly ileterate and could not read the Torah there was the fear that they could bring false doctrine. The position of women fortunately has improved a lot since then and the bringing of the gospel is for every one. The prophesies of the last days (period of time) clearly states that woman shall prophesy which thus we are in God's will. God is for all, woman, men and children and Jesus came for all of us.

well even the kitchen counter is made for you women, thats why you got smaller feet than men, so that you can get closer to that counter

Originally posted by finti
well even the kitchen counter is made for you women, thats why you got smaller feet than men, so that you can get closer to that counter
Oh, I had a different use in mind..... sorry!

Originally posted by finti
well even the kitchen counter is made for you women, thats why you got smaller feet than men, so that you can get closer to that counter

Where do you get this stuff?????

OH...Sonnet....Don't listen to paul.....He is anti woman...a gnostic..

God seemed to think women could be prophetess....What now Paul knows better than god?

I was raised with pagan traditions and customs, however was told that there is one god. I was always given the freedom of choice and possibility - after much searching I concluded that Buddhism way of life makes the most sense to me.

Wow... lotta interesting folks. ha.

I am what you could call a work in progress. I love God very much and have been following (or trying to) His will for the last 5 years of my life. Led a very depraved, hate-filled and violent life beforehand, and I was raised in the church! Church doesn't make you a christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car.

Now, granted, I am a "christian" ( i prefer simply a servant of The Almighty), but I would hope people would remember, I am still a flawed, human MAN. I will curse, spit, get mad and just generally do stupid things on occasion because I am still a man. Christianity makes me no better than anyone on the earth, it just means I know when I do certain things that to me they are wrong. My faith had a very positive outcome on my life.

1. I was going to kill everyone I knew the following week of my salvation, including all those who tormented me in highschool. That didn't happen, thankfully.

2. I stopped living for me, and started caring about others.

3. I found a reason to live, beyond the hope that tomorrow would be better.

4. I started loving all people, even when they hurt me. I may not like it, I may not respond positively to you, but I do love you. And I would give my life to save anyone I saw that needed it.

Some folks become "christians" and become better humans. Some use it as an excuse to fill the earth with hatred and their own laws and ideas. Make of it what you will.

Originally posted by sonnet
These scriptures are all written for believers both the wife and husband. It clearly says that the woman should submit to the husband as unto the lord, while the husband is in comparison to Christ as head of the home, also called the priest of the home. My husband is not a believer so I am submitted to Christ only as my husband does not submit to Christ. Many people does not understand this and thinks that God gave woman instruction to submit to men who does not honour God or Jesus. It mentions the example of Sarah and Abraham. Well we all know who Abraham was and his relationship with God. The part about woman not to teach is about teaching in church and congregations or to be in a authoritative position over the men, and we all know that many woman in those times were illiterate. But there are many scriptures were God instructs the mother to teach her children in the ways of God.

folks gotta remember that the old testament became fulfilled when Christ came, and though the law did not get tossed out the window, the people were no longer under the threat of eternal damnation for violating it.


when it comes to women, ya'll do what you will. If you have a solid relationship with a Christ-loving man, groovy. If not, do the best job you can to love him, and raise your children with at least good morals and common sense.

i was raised a christian and still am a christian
May god bless you and keep you may he make his face to chine upon you and guide you all the days of your life

Originally posted by svnthdysthsbbth
I was raised atheist and made a choice to follow Jesus by doing the will of the father in heaven. The Holy Scriptures and the Living Christ has always been there for me when the world got me down. Praise the Lord!




I am so glad to hear this. Many people who are raised atheist have a hard time finding God or just never do. I am happy that you have God in your life . My friend Kim is an theist, I try to help lead her to God but she doesn't seem to care

well if she is a theist she already belive in god........atheist is the opposite..........and it is kind of arrogant trying to lead someone into your way of belief

Originally posted by finti
well if she is a theist she already belive in god........atheist is the opposite..........and it is kind of arrogant trying to lead someone into your way of belief

she is atheist meaning she doesn't believe in God. She would rather worship the Devil as she has talked about. As a Christian I am only trying to help save her. How is that being arrogant?

arrogant in the way you think you are right and people who doesnt see it your way has got it wrong.... and if she talks about worshiping the devil she aint much of an atheist

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
Many people who are raised atheist have a hard time finding God or just never do.
Works the other way around too....Many people who were Christian no longer believe in god...

I was raised Roman Catholic, baptised...confirmed...etc. I went to catholic school my whole life. When my parents seperated, I continued to go to catholic school, but I lived in a small southern town, with my mother. Many of her friends pressured her to go to the local churches there. It was all an aspect of social life in small southern towns. We tried church of christ, baptist, etc. All because of one friend or another of my mothers.

Long story short, every christian religous denomination to which I have been exposed, has shown that god is no longer the focus of the very religions that surround him. Therefore I have decided to maintain a personal relationship with an undefinable being that may or may not exist.

Originally posted by finti
arrogant in the way you think you are right and people who doesnt see it your way has got it wrong.... and if she talks about worshiping the devil she aint much of an atheist
Hey, all I am saying is what she says and how she acts.Know before you answer this, forget the religion thing for a min. If you had a friend who you thought was in danger would you let them continue down that path or try and help them?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Works the other way around too....Many people who were Christian no longer believe in god...

I never said that didn't happen, It can very well happen.

never looked at lack of believe in a religion as danger

Originally posted by finti
never looked at lack of believe in a religion as danger

I said, don't think about the religion thing for the question. I only want to help a friend. But of course you also have the way of the Devil. God have mercy upon your soul.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
But of course you also have the way of the Devil. God have mercy upon your soul.




Not showing much fruit there.....What spirit are you????

Originally posted by debbiejo


Not showing much fruit there.....What spirit are you????

well anyone who is so purely against God and so Hateful to Christan's obviously has the Devil in there hearts whether they know it or not.

dont exist in my world so

Originally posted by finti
dont exist in my world so

well in your belifs it doesnt which is purely up to you, but in mine it does.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
well anyone who is so purely against God and so Hateful to Christan's obviously has the Devil in there hearts whether they know it or not.

But you were the one that stated if others don't believe like you then they will be condemned.....And stating things...once you get face to god you'll be sorry kind of thing, and devil in your heart....

BTW...there is no devil.....It's a teaching that was founded on older pagan beliefs that came into the Christian church...

And I do have many friends that are Christians......I believe what Jesus was trying to say was that we should act the part...fruits, that is...That's how you will known...

who is hateful to christians? I am just amazed by their arrogance of judging others which according the little book they hold so dear says it aint up to man to judge yet they cant do it enough

Originally posted by finti
who is hateful to christians? I am just amazed by their arrogance of judging others which according the little book they hold so dear says it aint up to man to judge yet they cant do it enough

True...it says as you judge so you shall also be judged....

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
well anyone who is so purely against God and so Hateful to Christan's obviously has the Devil in there hearts whether they know it or not.


First off, Debbiejo is one of the sweetest, least judgmental people I've encountered on these forums. She is ten times more open-minded than anyone else I have encountered here. The very fact that you can tell her that the devil is behind her words, simply shows off your inability to be a truely god-like person. The reason she still manages to get under the skin of people like yourself is because she didn't learn one point of view and decide to stick with it for the rest of her life. She attempts to understand others POV and make her own conclusions in life. The simple fact that you condemn her for thet, is only more evidence of the massive problems that exist in the lives of people like you.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
First off, Debbiejo is one of the sweetest, least judgmental people I've encountered on these forums. She is ten times more open-minded than anyone else I have encountered here. The very fact that you can tell her that the devil is behind her words, simply shows off your inability to be a truely god-like person. The reason she still manages to get under the skin of people like yourself is because she didn't learn one point of view and decide to stick with it for the rest of her life. She attempts to understand others POV and make her own conclusions in life. The simple fact that you condemn her for thet, is only more evidence of the massive problems that exist in the lives of people like you.

Gonna buy you a pizza and a beer for that....

beer pizza

It's just her denomination that all who don't believe like herself are denying god and if so, we all....everyone has the devil in them.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
First off, Debbiejo is one of the sweetest, least judgmental people I've encountered on these forums. She is ten times more open-minded than anyone else I have encountered here. The very fact that you can tell her that the devil is behind her words, simply shows off your inability to be a truely god-like person. The reason she still manages to get under the skin of people like yourself is because she didn't learn one point of view and decide to stick with it for the rest of her life. She attempts to understand others POV and make her own conclusions in life. The simple fact that you condemn her for thet, is only more evidence of the massive problems that exist in the lives of people like you.

dude, know what your saying before you speak. I was answering her reply, but my statement was made toward finti.

Originally posted by finti
who is hateful to christians? I am just amazed by their arrogance of judging others which according the little book they hold so dear says it aint up to man to judge yet they cant do it enough

Know its not up to us, But you guys judge us, saying we are judging you.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
dude, know what your saying before you speak. I was answering her reply, but my statement was made toward finti.

OH finti... ......

Yeah, but aren't we all in the same boat....

yeah another act of arrogance

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
dude, know what your saying before you speak. I was answering her reply, but my statement was made toward finti.

Then quote him in your reply or direct it at him.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
Know its not up to us, But you guys judge us, saying we are judging you.

What the ****? You judging us, means we are judging you, means we are judging each other, which means that god isn't paying attention...or something???? I have no idea what you're saying, seriously.

Well maybe if the whole world becomes Christian then there won't be anymore earthquakes, tornadoes, wars, tsunamis and diseases...Is that how it works?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Gonna buy you a pizza and a beer for that....

beer pizza

It's just her denomination that all who don't believe like herself are denying god and if so, we all....everyone has the devil in them.

are you trying to down me?

Originally posted by finti
yeah another act of arrogance
In our Opinion

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Then quote him in your reply or direct it at him.

I thought I was

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
What the ****? You judging us, means we are judging you, means we are judging each other, which means that god isn't paying attention...or something???? I have no idea what you're saying, seriously.
I am saying humans judge eachother, No one can say anyone is right. WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET ACROSS. I have no room to say anyone of you are right or wrong. nore do you have room to say I am right or wrong. I was only speaking from what I feel to be true. You are all speaking from you feel to be true. I dont hate or dislike any of you. I only want you to understand I am telling you my point of view. I dont want you all baggering it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well maybe if the whole world becomes Christian then there won't be anymore earthquakes, tornadoes, wars, tsunamis and diseases...Is that how it works?

dont be so rude.

I aint bound by no book thats tells me I shouldnt judge so I dont break any "rules"

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
are you trying to down me?



I don't understand....??..Why do you want a beer too?

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
dont be so rude.

I don't understand then...why do Christians want to send out missionaries?....If all New Orleans were Christians....then no problems there???...

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
dont be so rude.

Don't dodge the question, though. Isn't that what christians believe? That as soon as the whole world is converted and Jesus comes back, that there will be paradise on earth?

actually she was responding to your so called christian fundementalist logic aimed at New Orleans........and that is far for being rude

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't understand then...why do Christians want to send out missionaries?....If all New Orleans were Christians....then no problems there???...

Thats not what I am saying, of course there will still be natural disasters. Whether we are all Christan's or not.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't dodge the question, though. Isn't that what christians believe? That as soon as the whole world is converted and Jesus comes back, that there will be paradise on earth?
No, Its impossible for the whole world to convert. and in the end there will be the rapture and 7 years of world peace and such




Originally posted by finti
actually she was responding to your so called christian fundementalist logic aimed at New Orleans........and that is far for being rude

Think as wish.

you can try

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
No, Its impossible for the whole world to convert. and in the end there will be the rapture and 7 years of world peace and such


If it is impossible for the whole world to convert, then you yourself conceed that there are some souls that will simply have to burn in hell. Second...seven years? Is that it? 2000 years of war, death and hatred for seven good years?...and such.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia

No, Its impossible for the whole world to convert. and in the end there will be the rapture and 7 years of world peace and such



Where is that scripture..??...And are you sure it says 7 years of world peace?...or do you mean 7 years of tribulation?

7 years itch

Originally posted by finti
you can try

I told you to think as you wish...


Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If it is impossible for the whole world to convert, then you yourself conceed that there are some souls that will simply have to burn in hell. Second...seven years? Is that it? 2000 years of war, death and hatred for seven good years?...and such.

some souls wont be saved, I know that. and yes there will be 7 years world peace. 7 is Gods number

Originally posted by debbiejo
Where is that scripture..??...And are you sure it says 7 years of world peace?...or do you mean 7 years of tribulation?

I believe it will be the rapture,7 years world peace, trials and tribulations.

Originally posted by finti
7 years itch


...How about more beers.....beers for everyone ....drunk...maybe I'll have some wine too..

wine

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
II believe it will be the rapture,7 years world peace, trials and tribulations.

How can you have world peace and trials and tribulations?..Where do you get 7 years from?...What scripture?

and I told you to try it

also Davids Beckhams number on the England team

And how do you know gods number is 7?

well they say so in the Pixies song "This Mokeys gone to heaven"

Originally posted by debbiejo
How can you have world peace and trials and tribulations?..Where do you get 7 years from?...What scripture?
I don't remember scripture numbers and names and all but its in Revelations

Originally posted by finti
and I told you to try it

also Davids Beckhams number on the England team
I have tried, I tried to think about Religion in my own way, and I even tried Wicca, but they didn't feel right.

well you need to do what feels best for you

Originally posted by finti
well you need to do what feels best for you

And for me Believing in God feels best. I know I am very opinionated but thats not only with my Religion. I am opinionated about almost everything ....And I know I am not the best or ideal Christian.

no one can be an ideal christian

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
I don't remember scripture numbers and names and all but its in Revelations
I

No, it's not in Revelations...It's in Daniel...and it's talking about the 3 1/2 years before one come to renew a covenant with many....then after the other 3 1/2 years will be judgement....Which = 7, the Judgment was on the Jews at the 70 ad when Jerusalem fell to the Romans....It's historical....It was later changed by the Roman Catholic church....and they tampered with scripture a lot.....manipulated what texts would go in.

Originally posted by debbiejo
No, it's not in Revelations...It's in Daniel...and it's talking about the 3 1/2 years before one come to renew a covenant with many....then after the other 3 1/2 years will be judgement....Which = 7, the Judgment was on the Jews at the 70 ad when Jerusalem fell to the Romans....It's historical....It was later changed by the Roman Catholic church....and they tampered with scripture a lot.....manipulated what texts would go in.

oh, well I know Revelations talks about the end of times.

Originally posted by finti
no one can be an ideal christian
Its really hard.

I had a christian upbringing and I know it aint possible to follow all the rules of the bible

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
oh, well I know Revelations talks about the end of times.
Revelations has been taken in and out of the cannon of scripture many times...It's all symbolism....It could even be gnostic...not Christian type thing at all.......just symbolism....

BTW...I was raised very strict Christian....and started researching the founding of the Christian faith....You will be surprised at what you will see, if you get all the resources and read about it, and not just from the Christian book store....cause it's all slanted..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Revelations has been taken in and out of the cannon of scripture many times...It's all symbolism....It could even be gnostic...not Christian type thing at all.......just symbolism....

BTW...I was raised very strict Christian....and started researching the founding of the Christian faith....You will be surprised at what you will see, if you get all the resources and read about it, and not just from the Christian book store....cause it's all slanted..

see this is the thing, Like you guys have said man has written it. As people we carry opinions and our views, so its hard to know which to trust. The Bible itself that has been know for many many years. and then new research comes and may prove what we believe to be true wrong. So its hard to choose which way to go.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
see this is the thing, Like you guys have said man has written it. As people we carry opinions and our views, so its hard to know which to trust. The Bible itself that has been know for many many years. and then new research comes and may prove what we believe to be true wrong. So its hard to choose which way to go.

I do believe there is something much bigger than religion...I do believe in somekind of afterlife....

And the research comes from where?...There is history in the Bible...What research are you talking about.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I do believe there is something much bigger than religion...I do believe in somekind of afterlife....

And the research comes from where?...There is history in the Bible...What research are you talking about.

well I mean somethings the Bible says or shows is diffrent from what people are now finding.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
well I mean somethings the Bible says or shows is diffrent from what people are now finding.

Like what for example???...I'm just curious.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Like what for example???...I'm just curious.

Like some of the facts, are historical incorrect or something like that.

Hmmmmmmmm....doesn't give much to go on....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hmmmmmmmm....doesn't give much to go on....

I don't know which are wrong or not, I just heard some are

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
So its hard to choose which way to go.

Just do what you know to be the right thing...Because I feel we all go to the same place anyway...Think for yourself and sure...read the Bible if you want..There are many good books that have some wisdom...But really...It's all inside you anyway... on how to treat other people...just don't judge them is all....And the problems with most churches, and I didn't say all, and most of the bigger denominations or religions(Muslims..etc) are the judging....and adding to their numbers. For those based on the Bible they base their teaching on what Paul taught, more than Jesus..

I think everyone needs to realize that all religons are in a sense absured and funny.Their's more than one way to the top of a mountain and for anyone to say they know the only way is very funny to me.

Lets face it.According to someone else your going to Hell to burn forever no matter how good of a person you are.Religon needs a major makeover and I think where on the verge of it.

if you ralize mr. smiley that it is a canyon and the only way across it is by the bridge that jesus created when he died on the cross you would realize it isn't funny at all

Depends on the religion also....some believe you also have to be baptised, some eat only certain foods also, some keeping the OT feasts, some other holy days, some God in three persons, others God is only one and praying to Jesus is praying to another god...All considered part of the Christian faith...All feel they are doing gods will.....which group is correct....which will be sent to hell?...Because each group feel it's the right and only way....Oh, and some feel you must go through confirmations and other rituals.....Pick...which one is correct, or is there something that wouldn't care less about silly man made rules?

or you realize for that for some, the non believers, we cross the canyon any way we like

Ha.... I would like to drop the end-all-be-all answer to everyone's questions on religion and beliefs.

Let your heart decide. Listen to it, and follow it. NOT emotions! Your heart, your gut, whatever you wanna call it. Yes, I would like to see folks get right with God, but I understand and respect the fact that many dont give a hoot about what I want, and I respect their beliefs.

Just trust your heart. (though, loving one's fellow peeps is a nice thing, if it aint too much to ask.... )

Originally posted by gp christ loves
if you ralize mr. smiley that it is a canyon and the only way across it is by the bridge that jesus created when he died on the cross you would realize it isn't funny at all

Oh it's very funny.Read some Gnostic text and you'll see Jesus found it very funny too.As his lower self was crucified Jesus stood below laughing.
These pictures of a mutalated man we hang in our homes is sickining.Lets see more laughing Jesus pictures.

Originally posted by finti
or you realize for that for some, the non believers, we cross the canyon any way we like
Matthew 7: 13-15
"Heaven can be entered only through the narrow gate! The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide enough for all the multitudes who choose its easy way. But the Gateway to Life is small, and the road is narrow, and only a few will ever find it."

Matthew 19 :25-25
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God!"

Matthew 19: 24-25 means if you cling to your worldy ways and will go about life how you please and will not follow the way Jesus, you will not enter Heaven.

^ The thing is your quoting what a council of men around the year 324 AD chose to have included in the cannon of scripture out of over 100 plus texts?.....Out of all they could of chosen, they only came up with 4 gospels....And if this group of men at these councils chose certain texts, and then set themselves up as the "Word of God" on earth...ie Roman Catholic Church, then they could control the people....There are other texts, if you read them, that are quite different....you need to read and trace the history of your faith back to it's roots...Constantine was only out for control of the masses of people......The texts you posted were decided not on what the truth is.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
^ The thing is your quoting what a council of men around the year 324 AD chose to have included in the cannon of scripture out of over 100 plus texts?.....Out of all they could of chosen, they only came up with 4 gospels....And if this group of men at these councils chose certain texts, and then set themselves up as the "Word of God" on earth...ie Roman Catholic Church, then they could control the people....There are other texts, if you read them, that are quite different....you need to read and trace the history of your faith back to it's roots...Constantine was only out for control of the masses of people......The texts you posted were decided not on what the truth is.....

The Bible is the Living word. Choose not to follow if you will. I on the other hand choose the word of God.

Okay.God told Abraham to sacrafice his son Isaac by slitting his throat.Abraham was going to to do this and then God told him this was a test.Is this loving words?This is sickining and down right disturbing.If someone said they where sacraficing their child to God in this day of age would you belive them?I hope not.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
The Bible is the Living word. Choose not to follow if you will. I on the other hand choose the word of God.

How do you know it's the "Living word" of god?...for sure that is...

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Okay.God told Abraham to sacrafice his son Isaac by slitting his throat.Abraham was going to to do this and then God told him this was a test.Is this loving words?This is sickining and down right disturbing.If someone said they where sacraficing their child to God in this day of age would you belive them?I hope not.

Its not sicking, it was indeed a test from God. And yes today many would find it disturbing and say the person was insane. You know why? Because many people now days hold diffrent beliefs and would think the one doing Gods word was nuts.



Originally posted by debbiejo
How do you know it's the "Living word" of god?...for sure that is...

How do you know its not?

Originally posted by Raven Guardia

How do you know its not?

I asked my question first.....Cause you said it was.

I think it's Allah.Not Jehova.He's punishing us for being a Christian nation by giving us natural disasters.


we can't prove this is some Gods way of punishing us.

Allah's winning....OH NO....So, that's who's doing it...I knew it had to be somebody up there.....It's the war of the gods......Only no one cares..except the fundamentalists...and the Muslims....

Originally posted by debbiejo
I asked my question first.....Cause you said it was.

And I answered. You cant just say its not his word. Its in the Bible, and I happen to Believe what this Precious Book says.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I think it's Allah.Not Jehova.He's punishing us for being a Christian nation by giving us natural disasters.


we can't prove this is some Gods way of punishing us.
No we cant prove it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Allah's winning....OH NO....So, that's who's doing it...I knew it had to be somebody up there.....It's the war of the gods......Only no one cares..except the fundamentalists...and the Muslims....
You disgust me. Mainly because you were brought up knowing the way and yet you so rudely act as if you do not know God.

QUOTE=5043873]Originally posted by Raven Guardia

You disgust me. Mainly because you were brought up knowing the way and yet you so rudely act as if you do not know God.


I'm sorry, I have multiple personalities...

If there is such thing as God, then all the religions are correct.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If there is such thing as God, then all the religions are correct.

Religions all can't be correct....not in their doctrinal beliefs..

so the bible phrases says, so what? That book is as valid to me as the taste of soup is to a spoon


the only thing that is disgusting here is your view on Katrina and New Orleans

Hmmm. My mother was a very moderate, liberal Christian, my father a staunch atheist. Religion didn't play much of a part, though I guess in a way I was somewhat Christian. Though really I never felt anything. The "Good Book" which I was told in school scripture had no effect on me, as a person who loved history the Bible just was another moderately entertaining historical text, full of bias and all that feel good mysticism of the ancient world.

Anyvey there came a time when strangely I felt I should look into my "religion" come to terms with it, find truth in it. Felt right. However I was most disappointed. I looked at it from an intellectual, rational point of view, and I saw no real truths, no real facts, basic morals, smoke and mirrors, and a history of bias, bigotry, hypocrisy and ignorance. Just some skeleton of some ancient institution, manipulated by mere mortals claiming to have some great truth they would share if one would only "believe". I saw no God there, nor in Judaism, Islam or whatever. I saw little of beauty (other then the architecture) in Christianity, nothing that science could not explain better, nothing that could not be attributed to the works of human kind or to the randomness of nature.

I did my theology studies in school, coupled with history and psychology (interesting to see the way religion develops, and how human it really is) discovered that religion had nothing to really offer me, which was strangely liberating, although I do have some associations to Buddhism, though more as a philosophical basis, and aspects of Hinduism (Ganesha anyway, patron of scholars.) Though I admit, as a cynic and all, that in some ways I am still agnostic, I have an open mind and I am prepared to look for some proof, though I am yet to see anything that even remotely could be considered an all powerful God. And I am pleased to say I haven't needed religion or Godly fear to live a damn fine life in my relatively short years so far.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia

If someone is a real Christan and they Believe That Jesus did on the Cross for our sins they feel it in the heart and soul, then they know.

Who would god chose...a non believer with all the fruits or a christian with little or no fruits?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Here's a curious question...WHAT WERE YOU RAISED AS

How many people have once been Christians or other and changed their Beliefs or views and why?

What were you, and why were you that....And why the change....

And what would it take to change your belief?

And is change good?

I'm 14, I was raised a Hindu. I was never particularly religious, in fact I didn't really tend to think about it until I turned 12. I thought about things logically, not taking anything on faith and as a result I am athiest

Originally posted by Imaginary
I'm 14, I was raised a Hindu. I was never particularly religious, in fact I didn't really tend to think about it until I turned 12. I thought about things logically, not taking anything on faith and as a result I am athiest

You are too young to know, give yourself some time.

Matthew 19 :25-25
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God!"


You do know that this "eye" is not actually a needle but the entrance to a place of worship that was to small for a camel but to smal for men and women...........(i got schooled on that one by a fairly religious girl out where I live talk about humble pie)

Anyway I am more of a Tao kinda guy and I was raised Catholic however I see far to many pieces fall apart in the large organised religions........and far to much hate

Originally posted by soleran30
Matthew 19 :25-25
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God!"


You do know that this "eye" is not actually a needle but the entrance to a place of worship that was to small for a camel but to smal for men and women...........(i got schooled on that one by a fairly religious girl out where I live talk about humble pie)



What religion was she??

some denomination of christian....

Well never heard that one, but many things in scripture are more metaphorical, or historical information of that time period...

So what do you consider yourself again debbie ??

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
So what do you consider yourself again debbie ??

OK...you're like the fourth person to ask me.....Sooooo...guess...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are too young to know, give yourself some time.

You don't know me, how my mind works, or anything about me. Therefore you are in no position to judge whether or not I am old enough to decide what I believe in.

Originally posted by Imaginary
You don't know me, how my mind works, or anything about me. Therefore you are in no position to judge whether or not I am old enough to decide what I believe in.

In 20 years you will understand.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In 20 years you will understand.

Aren't you assuming a little too much about a stranger?

I was raised as a catholic, but my opinions on religion changed because I realised people will still kill others even if their religion tells them not too, so really, what is the point of it if people are going to change the rules for themselves...