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Everyone pretty much agrees that the Astonishing X-Men team would get completely owned by the Fantastic Four so.... how does Storm's team fare?

No prep nor gadgets. Featureless environment. Bloodlust. No outside influences.

Lineup:

Storm
Wolverine
Marvel Girl
Bishop
Nightcrawler
Psylocke
X-23
Sage

Bloodlusted?
Nightcrawler teleports all their heads away.

except that his head already exploded when Malice placed an expanding invisible bubble in it.

The Physics could take out the FF, assuming Reed hasn't had prep......

It does indeed say no prep.

Richards has been displayed as always having anti psionics on him. And Sue's field can protect them from TP.

I said no gadgets nor prep.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Richards has been displayed as always having anti psionics on him. And Sue's field can protect them from TP.

I didn't know that Sues field protects her from physic attacks. Do you have any pics? I have an issue of FF, the one where Valeria is born, a physic alien attack attacks Reed.........

If she's busy doing that, how are they stopping Nightcrawler from instantly teleporting all their heads off? He IS much faster than they are when teleporting around.

Originally posted by Draco69
Everyone pretty much agrees that the Astonishing X-Men team would get completely owned by the Fantastic Four so....
Did we?

Originally posted by Draco69
I said no gadgets nor prep.

Thats like saying Ironman without any gadgets. Reed's costume essentially is a gadget. Considering how many slanted threads u create that have the FF in them u dont seem to know much about them.

Translation:

Wahhhhh! Reed is USELESS without gadgets! How could you!

Two Words: BAT. MAN.

You're whining because Reed is without an asset....when there are HUNDREDS of threads that disable Batman from using his gadgets, or Superman from flying, or Captain America from using his shield.

Hypocrisy at its best. Fanboys.

But isn't it pointless discussing "FF versus ANYONE" when pretty much everyone agrees on the fact, that with preptime Reed would take care of ANY opponent?
(Strange though, that the FF in the comics do not win everytime so easely!)

Originally posted by Wynndar
Richards has been displayed as always having anti psionics on him.
This is a bit of an intangible.

The Astonishing X-Men stand a good chance against the FF - for one thing none of them can do anything to Shadowcat.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is a bit of an intangible.

The Astonishing X-Men stand a good chance against the FF - for one thing none of them can do anything to Shadowcat.
Agreed!

And sincebamfcan safely be declared as the fastest combatant, the FFs heads would be off.
giljotiini

I'd say the x-men win. bloodlust storm, rachel, and psylock would be a very dangerous combination

why are we assuming nightcrawler can simply teleport people's heads off.
the only example of him doing so was from one claremont-written issue.
he's famous for stretching powers to the point of absurdity.
nightcrawler should NOT be able to teleport heads off.
that's not how his power works.

in any case, FF vs X-Men would be a great battle.....not sure who would win at moment.
the psychics are the key to this battle.

well marvel girl could take control over johnny and ben and then it'd be 10 VS 2. nightcrawler bloodlust might be able to teleport body parts off. in AOA he did it, and rogue with nightcrawlers powers did it. and he has a wormhle surrounding his body, maybe he can somehow expand that wormhole to teleport certain body parts off. so actually his powers could work like that.

Originally posted by Zahit
why are we assuming nightcrawler can simply teleport people's heads off.
the only example of him doing so was from one claremont-written issue.
he's famous for stretching powers to the point of absurdity.
nightcrawler should NOT be able to teleport heads off.
that's not how his power works.

in any case, FF vs X-Men would be a great battle.....not sure who would win at moment.
the psychics are the key to this battle.

yeah, the heads thing is debatable at best...

f4 could do it... unless sue gets taken down mighty quick...

well it would only take a thought for he to get taken out. telepathy moves at the speed of thought(right) and that's probab;ly faster than sue can get a shield up.

Originally posted by Zahit
why are we assuming nightcrawler can simply teleport people's heads off.
the only example of him doing so was from one claremont-written issue.
he's famous for stretching powers to the point of absurdity.
nightcrawler should NOT be able to teleport heads off.
that's not how his power works.

in any case, FF vs X-Men would be a great battle.....not sure who would win at moment.
the psychics are the key to this battle.
1)Nightcrawler teleported an arm off Magnus(or Magus?), the "father" of warlock(original New Mutants).
2)Rogue absorbed Kurts power once to teleport an arm off Nimrod.
3)In Uncanny X-Men 444 page 14, Nightcrawler teleports the body of a giant sentinel off his arms, legs and head.

Why should teleporting something as small and "soft" as a head of flesh, blood and bones be so dificult???

wow, he's done it more than I thought. anyway..... the x-men win. rachel should be able to shut down sue before she gets a shield up, even if she can't nightcrawler can probably teleport inside and do it. storm could trap reed in a pressure field(which has busted through mountains) and then cause a storm inside it. betsy could handle johnny and ben. even if she can't, rachel could take control of both of them.

sue puts up shield, johnny goes supernova......who's left?

everyone is left and then johnny is wastewd and drained. both rachel, storm, and betsy have shields

Originally posted by stormfront13
everyone is left and then johnny is wastewd and drained. both rachel, storm, and betsy have shields
storm has shields??????
do you have crack too?

pressure fields which have contained nukes, and she has created the same types of shilds that magneto has before. get your facts straight before you comment

so storm can shield herself from a nuclear explosion?

she has contained a nucleaer explosion before. no one even felt the affects of the pressure storm was using and no one felt the affects of the nuke. but with the combined shields of betsy, storm, and rachel they would be safe

is there anything storm can't do?


(i wonder if i've been praying to the wrong god after all these years.....)

well she has done a ton of things, if a writer were to write her with all her powers, then she would be almost unstoppable. you wouldn't be able to sneak up on her, and stuff........ sometimes it does seem like they are hying up storm.

Originally posted by Zahit
sue puts up shield, johnny goes supernova......who's left?

Since Nightcrawler does not teleport directly but through the brimstone dimension, Sue Shields wont do her any good.
Rachel or Betsy could shield the X-Men from a novablast, after which Johnny would be down...all X-Men standing, one of the FF down!

Originally posted by stormfront13
well she has done a ton of things, if a writer were to write her with all her powers, then she would be almost unstoppable. you wouldn't be able to sneak up on her, and stuff........ sometimes it does seem like they are hying up storm.
is storm a god?

judging from her new mini-eries, and all the clues that have been in comics, and from the things she has said she is destined to be

Originally posted by stormfront13
well marvel girl could take control over johnny and ben and then it'd be 10 VS 2. nightcrawler bloodlust might be able to teleport body parts off. in AOA he did it, and rogue with nightcrawlers powers did it. and he has a wormhle surrounding his body, maybe he can somehow expand that wormhole to teleport certain body parts off. so actually his powers could work like that.

I agree but 616 Nightcrawler has teleported the Red Skulls arm off and left behind the skeleton of Skulls hand, so it is within his ability to do so..........

well, with this newfound info, the x-men win easy

why newfound...i posted several examples for Nightcrawler616 using this trick on this page before?!

well it is newfound to me. I didn't mean to everyone, but with the examples you gave the the examples will gave, the x-men win easy

Originally posted by stormfront13
well it is newfound to me. I didn't mean to everyone, but with the examples you gave the the examples will gave, the x-men win easy

Dude. Psylocke alone wins this. The other X-men can just lounge about drinking lemonade or something.

Psylocke sets of psychic grenades in each of the FF's heads at the same time, killing them all instantly.

Originally posted by stormfront13
she has contained a nucleaer explosion before. no one even felt the affects of the pressure storm was using and no one felt the affects of the nuke. but with the combined shields of betsy, storm, and rachel they would be safe

We're on the same side. I believe the X-men would win. But you're over-hyping Storm again.

I know exactly what instance you are referring to. I have the comic. Storm had to strain and strain and use everything she had in her power to contain that nuclear explosion with her pressure field. Then she was completely drained. Don't just make it sound like she can do that on a whim withouth any consequences.

Now, on the other hand, both Marvel Girl and Psylocke can easily defend the X-men from attacks with their psi-shields. I agree with you there.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
We're on the same side. I believe the X-men would win. But you're over-hyping Storm again.
I agree the X-Men have what it takes to win too, but Metalmanx is right, stormfront, you are overhyping Storm again. The other thing she forced a pressure dome through the thin wall of a collapsing hollowed out mountain. You say "which has busted through mountains" as if she flies through solid mountains.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I agree the X-Men have what it takes to win too, but Metalmanx is right, stormfront, you are overhyping Storm again. The other thing she forced a pressure dome through the thin wall of a collapsing hollowed out mountain. You say "which has busted through mountains" as if she flies through solid mountains.
Most definitly!!!
The Weatherwitch can perform incredible stunts, but one like the mentioned one is immensly straining for her and, most important, takes time, which she probably will not have in an allout fight like this.
The X-Men could even win though with Marvelgirl, Psylocke, Storm and Nightcrawler only!

k, first of all i never said she did it easily. zahit was doubting her ability to do anything like it. I gave the example of her doing it, but I never said she did it easily. and X, I don't think I should have to explain everything I say in excact detail. what happened was she did take her teammates through a mountain in a pressure field. anyway, the x-men win this easy

just to make sure everyone knows....

if we talking bout SALES.... FF aint touching the X.

TRUTH.

Originally posted by stormfront13
k, first of all i never said she did it easily. zahit was doubting her ability to do anything like it. I gave the example of her doing it, but I never said she did it easily. and X, I don't think I should have to explain everything I say in excact detail. what happened was she did take her teammates through a mountain in a pressure field. anyway, the x-men win this easy
You tend to omit detail and hyperbolize.
Originally posted by Pointinel
just to make sure everyone knows....
if we talking bout SALES.... FF aint touching the X.
TRUTH.
What is it with you and sales???

He's talkin bout sales like all em rappers do.

Nobody aint got nuttin on 50 cent cuz dat guy gets mad sales. Illest rapper in history. Only people doper than him are Britney Spears and 'N Sync. Cuz they sell more records.

(Making the whole sales does not = good point.)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You tend to omit detail and hyperbolize.



nobody's perfect. I don't feel the need to include every litle detail because I don't feel it's necessary. if she went through a mountain in the comic, then what's wrong with saying she did? nd I don't exxagerate that much. everything I have said about storm is true. don't blame me for her power levels, blame the writers.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
He's talkin bout sales like all em rappers do.

Nobody aint got nuttin on 50 cent cuz dat guy gets mad sales. Illest rapper in history. Only people doper than him are Britney Spears and 'N Sync. Cuz they sell more records.

(Making the whole sales does not = good point.)

nah that's not what i meant.... and fuq 50! LOL

but it is true... ill bet x-men #1 sold more copies than FF during 04-05

and?

nothin, just sayin

cool...

Yep this is too easy for the X-men, we have a bloodlust teleporter who has been known to teleport limbs off, and we have Physic galore, the others can sit around like metalmanx said..........

YAY!!! Physics galore! *busts out the caculator and number two pencils*

Yea i dont know what the sales has to do with anything, except that modern X-Men has been a pop culture icon for the 15 years or so. They have strong sales to a wide range of ages too.

Stormfront, how would the X-Men easily beat the FF? I dont think you're considering this match up with much depth. Power alone isnt going to decide this outcome. The FF routinely face uber powerful confrontations. The X-men have trouble with the brotherhood. Every other issue of FF has a celestial or Eternity or Galactus. Every other issue of X-Men shows them having trouble with the Morlocks? Mystique? ...Toad?

I have to say that X-Men is a great book right now. X-Men and FF have been great at developing the characters and the plot. I mean in the last five issues neither book has had much action or fighting...especially in FF. The writers are really developing the stories. A stark difference from JLA.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Stormfront, how would the X-Men easily beat the FF? I dont think you're considering this match up with much depth. Power alone isnt going to decide this outcome. The FF routinely face uber powerful confrontations. The X-men have trouble with the brotherhood. Every other issue of FF has a celestial or Eternity or Galactus. Every other issue of X-Men shows them having trouble with the Morlocks? Mystique? ...Toad?



look, I know you are a fan of the fantastic four, but let's be reasonable........ they win easy. telepathy moves at the speed of thought, so it would move faster than sue can put up a shield. she is taken out the first second. nightcrawler teleports off ben's head and arms. rachel takes johnny, while the rest finish off reed. the only reason that the x-men have trouble with the brotherhood is to have a good story-line. and to say that every other issue has them fighting the morlocks ad toad, this means you obviously know nothing of the x-men. the morlocks are in africa and have been for some time, and toad hasn't fought the x-men in a while.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Yea i dont know what the sales has to do with anything, except that modern X-Men has been a pop culture icon for the 15 years or so. They have strong sales to a wide range of ages too.

Stormfront, how would the X-Men easily beat the FF? I dont think you're considering this match up with much depth. Power alone isnt going to decide this outcome. The FF routinely face uber powerful confrontations. The X-men have trouble with the brotherhood. Every other issue of FF has a celestial or Eternity or Galactus. Every other issue of X-Men shows them having trouble with the Morlocks? Mystique? ...Toad?

I have to say that X-Men is a great book right now. X-Men and FF have been great at developing the characters and the plot. I mean in the last five issues neither book has had much action or fighting...especially in FF. The writers are really developing the stories. A stark difference from JLA.
I agree with you, but you should understand, that being able to fight a cosmic being is not at all a guarantee to win a brawl!
In all the fights against those uber powerful beings, the FF had the time to analyze the situation, check their equipment, develop some countertechnology etc.!
They won't have that time in a fight like this. It's power v. power, fast action v. faster reaction!
And since Reed is a science super genius but not a super tactician, his brains won't do him any good...at least not as much as usual!

Bloodlusted? Could go either way..Does anyone know what a bloodlusted Sue can do? Anyone heard of Malice? Malice is an evil incarnation of Sue..and damb powerful at that.

Could all of the X-men dodge a hundred force daggers thrown at them at once? Or how about if all of them had a force bubbles surrounding their heads cutting off all of their oxygen..or how about a force bubble on the inside of their bodies, that gradually expands and blows up their bodies...

And lest us not forget Johnny.."bloodlusted" Johnny to me = Supernova from the start...Most of the damb X-Team are dead if he turns the heat to Nova...Sue puts up a shield to protect the FF from the Nova attack....and that's it..X-men are done..well done....

So anyway..FF takes this..

Johnny can't go nova right at the start though. It would take him too long and he would be attacked before he had the chance.
This team of X-Men can win because they have Rachel and Psylocke.

Originally posted by stormfront13
look, I know you are a fan of the fantastic four, but let's be reasonable........ they win easy. telepathy moves at the speed of thought, so it would move faster than sue can put up a shield. she is taken out the first second. nightcrawler teleports off ben's head and arms. rachel takes johnny, while the rest finish off reed. the only reason that the x-men have trouble with the brotherhood is to have a good story-line. and to say that every other issue has them fighting the morlocks ad toad, this means you obviously know nothing of the x-men. the morlocks are in africa and have been for some time, and toad hasn't fought the x-men in a while.

Did u even read X4? Sue takes down emma with her field and then says, "I guess ur powers rnt the only ones that operate at the speed of thought"...why did Sue win? because she's been fighting longer and harder and is a better warrior than Emma who really isnt anything but an administrator taking care of children. I know Im a fan of the FF but at least Im backing up my argument with events out of comic books...ur argument is just backed up with ur bias opinion.

Originally posted by wannabe
I agree with you, but you should understand, that being able to fight a cosmic being is not at all a guarantee to win a brawl!
In all the fights against those uber powerful beings, the FF had the time to analyze the situation, check their equipment, develop some countertechnology etc.!
They won't have that time in a fight like this. It's power v. power, fast action v. faster reaction!
And since Reed is a science super genius but not a super tactician, his brains won't do him any good...at least not as much as usual!

And the FF dont brawl? How many times have they fought the frightful four, or teams assembled by Doom? Or Skrulls? Or heralds? How many brawls do the Individual FF memebers get into? Thing Brawls the Hulk, Terrax, Occulus, Wrecker, Devos, Paibok, Blackbolt, Namor, etc. None of the X-Men r packing that kind of power. Reed brawls Doom, Namor, Crucible, Superior to X-Men too. The Torch fought Paibok, Devos, and Lyja all at the same time and went Nova on them and they were running for the hills. That is more power than that whole X-team is working with. I dont even have to talk about IW cuz she can already beat the X-Men on her own...she's already prved to be faster than Emma and she is waaaaaay more powerful. Capable of killing that whole team instantly. Reed is the bets leader in Marvel second only to Cap and Cap still has to defer to Reed concerning strategy involving opponents on the Cosmic or super technological scale.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Johnny can't go nova right at the start though. It would take him too long and he would be attacked before he had the chance.
This team of X-Men can win because they have Rachel and Psylocke.

Um how long does it take him to go Nova? please give me an example of a comic book u say where he needed time to go Nova? Devos even said himself, when the Torch went Nova on him, Paibok and Lyja when they jumped him, that Torch's temperature was climbing at an exponential and critical rate. Once he's going Nova he's too hot for any of the X-men to do jack...and if they dont teleport away then their all getting turned to dust.

Wynndar no offence (to stormfront either) but your starting to sound a bit stormfrontish. The FF do this and that and that while the X-Men just stand there etc.
Emma isn't even in this fight.
Rachel Summers is a more powerful telepath and is an incredibly powerful telekinetic who manipulates matter on a molecular/atomic scale. Lately Rachel's been giving Psylocke props for having the power but teasing her for not having the fine motor control - which leads me to think Psylocke is a more powerful TK than even Rachel.

Is this supernova/nova thing even within CIS?
Or the brainbubbles?

Nova happens when the torch is either overloaded with energy or he is seriously outmatched. Sorry if I sounded stormfrontish. But I did bring up the fact that IW has already proved that she is faster than Emma. I also may have forgotten Rachel was in this fight, she is one bad girl. I'm the FF fanboy of the forum though, so im always going to argue in their favor...unless its just plain to see that they'd lose (not the case).

Can't hate a fanboy if they sound legit, you know your stuff...
Thats a relief...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Nova happens when the torch is either overloaded with energy or he is seriously outmatched. Sorry if I sounded stormfrontish. But I did bring up the fact that IW has already proved that she is faster than Emma. I also may have forgotten Rachel was in this fight, she is one bad girl. I'm the FF fanboy of the forum though, so im always going to argue in their favor...unless its just plain to see that they'd lose (not the case).
Nova won't do the FF any good. Rachel's and Betsy's TK-shields could take it or Kurt could teleport the team away, and johnny would be exhausted afterwards...not a good tactic so!

Yes, Sue was faster than Emma in X4 because Emma was telling Sue about what she was going to do to her, before she was doing it!!! Really hard to be faster when you get a warning...

It's good you speak in the FF's favour, otherwise this thread would be only half the fun! Hard to debate with someone who already agrees with you...

After all it comes down to this...i think:
1)The Kenyan Goddes can handle Torch. They both have a comparable destructive power potential, but Ms.Munroe is the far better and more disciplined fighter.

2)Reed's and Ben's powers are too...well...basic to give the FF an edge in this fight.

3)The big ace of the FF is Sue. She can easily squash the X-Mens heads and shield the FF from attacks, BUT so can the TWO tk-psis, and the teleporter of the X-Men can bypass Sue's shielding.

The FF could win...with MUCH luck! Otherwise the odds are crystal-clearly in Ororo's team's favour...even if it would be just the Weatherwitch, Rachel, Betsy and Kurt!

Originally posted by Wynndar
And the FF dont brawl? How many times have they fought the frightful four, or teams assembled by Doom? Or Skrulls? Or heralds? How many brawls do the Individual FF memebers get into? Thing Brawls the Hulk, Terrax, Occulus, Wrecker, Devos, Paibok, Blackbolt, Namor, etc. None of the X-Men r packing that kind of power. Reed brawls Doom, Namor, Crucible, Superior to X-Men too. The Torch fought Paibok, Devos, and Lyja all at the same time and went Nova on them and they were running for the hills. That is more power than that whole X-team is working with. I dont even have to talk about IW cuz she can already beat the X-Men on her own...she's already prved to be faster than Emma and she is waaaaaay more powerful. Capable of killing that whole team instantly. Reed is the bets leader in Marvel second only to Cap and Cap still has to defer to Reed concerning strategy involving opponents on the Cosmic or super technological scale.
I didn't questioned the FF's abilities in a brawl, just invalidated your implication that their experiences with uberpowerful beings is giving them a considerable edge in this fight!

And to the rest of your posting i say:
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister, full power Juggernaut, Onslaught, Dark Phoenix, Stryfe, Legion, Cassandra Nova, the Brood, the Phalanx, the Skrull, the Shiar Empire, future super sentinel Nimrod and, last not least, HUMANITY...just to mention a few...

wynndar, as wannabe already pointed out, sue got a warning of the attack, so of course she would be ready. if emma went straight out, then sue could be mind-wiped. even if somehow she can't, then either storm or nightcrawler would take her out. psylock can handle reed until storm is done with torch. you really have to understand that the f4 lose here. just look at the people they are facing and what they can do. even according to numbers x-men win.

next time galactus stops by earth for a bite, who do you think will get a call?

Originally posted by Zahit
next time galactus stops by earth for a bite, who do you think will get a call? The people who deal with him when they get prep.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The people who deal with him when they get prep.
and how would the x-men do against galactus with prep?

the x-men don't have people like reed to help them. forge isn't there anymore. if reed went with the x-men, then they could probably stop him like the f4 do.

Originally posted by Zahit
next time galactus stops by earth for a bite, who do you think will get a call?
It's intended to be a rhetorical question, i take it?!
And of course it is!
Some "villains" are strongly tied to specific heroes in the comics...and Galactus is a classical FF opponent...just like Dark Phoenix is an X opponent...and Thanos one for the Avengers.

Your question is meaningless...proves or supports nothing!

Originally posted by Zahit
and how would the x-men do against galactus with prep?

How would the FF do without prep nor gadgets?

they took out Terminus without prep.
when you got a brain like reed's....anything is possible.
when you got invisible daggers flying at you......you're f*cked.

Unless you've got shields and a guy who can teleport limbs off as well as psychics. . .

Without prep or gadgets I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Unless you've got shields and a guy who can teleport limbs off as well as psychics. . .

Without prep or gadgets I just don't see it happening.
I do.

Originally posted by Zahit
I do.

Okay, how?

with my eyes.....DUH.

Originally posted by Zahit
they took out Terminus without prep.
when you got a brain like reed's....anything is possible.
when you got invisible daggers flying at you......you're f*cked.
And when you got powers like the X-Men's...anything is possible too...as proven throughout the decades!

Btw...if it were so easy and unavoidable for the FF to win against any opponent because of Reed's super brain, the comics would be pretty boring...but they arn't...cause usually it isn't so easy or even possible! Otherwise i would have stopped to read their comics.

Originally posted by Zahit
they took out Terminus without prep.

Reed affixed a newly discovered device of his to Terminus' head. This acceleration device sent Terminus off at an instant velocity of some 20, 000 mph against the direction of the Earth through space, sending him to the very core of the Earth.


Gadget.

Originally posted by Zahit
with my eyes.....DUH. Smartassery covering up for lack of a tangible debate? Hmm. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Smartassery covering up for lack of a tangible debate? Hmm. . .
it's early...

Originally posted by Zahit
it's early... Ah. I got up at 5:30 today. so it's not quite so early for me. (it's 11:30 here)

Originally posted by Creshosk
Reed affixed a newly discovered device of his to Terminus' head. This acceleration device sent Terminus off at an instant velocity of some 20, 000 mph against the direction of the Earth through space, sending him to the very core of the Earth.


Gadget.

Yea you've obviously read it. U did conveniently leave outt he fact that the gadget was improvised from some parts of his little fantasticar. HE beat Terminus by himself...with parts off the Fantsticar? Reed, by himself, beat Terminus more efficiently than the Avengers, or the JLA. That is saying something. Saying Reed cant improvise a tech weapin against an enemy is like saying Ironman can't fight with his armor. Its out of character, Reed can improvise something in any situation, demonstrated with him and Terminus out in the desert. When Hyperstorm left him in the dark ages of an alternate timeline it didnt stop him from creating tech. When Kang's son left him and the FF Marooned in the ancient Egyptian desert it didnt stop them either.

Why are people trying to slant these threads in a way to put the FF at a disadvantage? X-Men cant win any other way?

Originally posted by Wynndar
Yea you've obviously read it. U did conveniently leave outt he fact that the gadget was improvised from some parts of his little fantasticar. HE beat Terminus by himself...with parts off the Fantsticar? Reed, by himself, beat Terminus more efficiently than the Avengers, or the JLA. That is saying something. Saying Reed cant improvise a tech weapin against an enemy is like saying Ironman can't fight with his armor. Its out of character, Reed can improvise something in any situation, demonstrated with him and Terminus out in the desert. When Hyperstorm left him in the dark ages of an alternate timeline it didnt stop him from creating tech. When Kang's son left him and the FF Marooned in the ancient Egyptian desert it didnt stop them either.

Why are people trying to slant these threads in a way to put the FF at a disadvantage? X-Men cant win any other way?

You're overlooking the fact that in this thread it was stated theat the enviornment is featureless, and there is no outside influence.

No fantasticar, no spare parts, and no gadgets.

Well this makes for a really uninteresting battle and thread then, if thats the case. Essentially the pro-FF people are just going to argue with the pro-X-Men people over who is going to be quickest to the draw: A bloodlusting Malice like character who's exploding the heads of the X-men and impaling them on invisible pikes and a nova blasting Torch, or the heavy hitters hitters from this X-team. Although Im not sure they're going with the X-team...is it presumed that Psylock would hit the entire up the entire FF with her TP? I cant really see that happening.

But do u see my point? If those are the perameters, it doesnt matter who's on the teams. Guys like Wolverine and Thing are kinda irrelavant because Wolverine is either getting incinerated or the Thing is getting mind controlled. So the whole fight essentially hinges on two characters. Draco even admitted he was trying produce a scenerio that would give the X-Men anadvantage. But if the only thing we can debate is: who single handendly takes down the opposing team first, IW or One of the X-Men, then it doesnt really make for a good debate.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Yea you've obviously read it. U did conveniently leave outt he fact that the gadget was improvised from some parts of his little fantasticar. HE beat Terminus by himself...with parts off the Fantsticar? Reed, by himself, beat Terminus more efficiently than the Avengers, or the JLA. That is saying something. Saying Reed cant improvise a tech weapin against an enemy is like saying Ironman can't fight with his armor. Its out of character, Reed can improvise something in any situation, demonstrated with him and Terminus out in the desert. When Hyperstorm left him in the dark ages of an alternate timeline it didnt stop him from creating tech. When Kang's son left him and the FF Marooned in the ancient Egyptian desert it didnt stop them either.

Why are people trying to slant these threads in a way to put the FF at a disadvantage? X-Men cant win any other way?
You're constantly missing ONE important fact about Reed and his improvised gadgets...
He was able to manufacture them because the FF fought against one single opponent (look at your examples...for example) and his teammates bought him some time!
Here, the FF face multiple adversaries...
So, do you REALLY believe the X-Men will ignore Reed, exactly knowing WHOM they fight, and give him the time to actually build or construct something???

I don't say that the FF can't win at all...the odds are just severely in favour for the X-Men.

Wannabe, can you cite some examples of the FF fighting teams or groups of individuals?

Originally posted by Wynndar
Wannabe, can you cite some examples of the FF fighting teams or groups of individuals?
Ohh, i know they did (Fearsome Four and others) BUT each time the opponents were so DULL to ignore Reed just long enough for him to construct something or the FF didn't have such an easy fight at all!
Either way...i guess you got what i wanted to express?!

Originally posted by Wynndar
Well this makes for a really uninteresting battle and thread then, if thats the case. Essentially the pro-FF people are just going to argue with the pro-X-Men people over who is going to be quickest to the draw: A bloodlusting Malice like character who's exploding the heads of the X-men and impaling them on invisible pikes and a nova blasting Torch, or the heavy hitters hitters from this X-team. Although Im not sure they're going with the X-team...is it presumed that Psylock would hit the entire up the entire FF with her TP? I cant really see that happening.

But do u see my point? If those are the perameters, it doesnt matter who's on the teams. Guys like Wolverine and Thing are kinda irrelavant because Wolverine is either getting incinerated or the Thing is getting mind controlled. So the whole fight essentially hinges on two characters. Draco even admitted he was trying produce a scenerio that would give the X-Men anadvantage. But if the only thing we can debate is: who single handendly takes down the opposing team first, IW or One of the X-Men, then it doesnt really make for a good debate. No, it's not.

One on one same type battles are usually more interesting, than teams that can deal with a large variety of different situations versus teams that deal with a large variety of situations. Unless they are similar enough.

A good deal of the characters mentioned are nonfactors, so it comes down to a few like you said, and like you said is an uninteresting debate.

Originally posted by wannabe
Ohh, i know they did (Fearsome Four and others) BUT each time the opponents were so DULL to ignore Reed just long enough for him to construct something or the FF didn't have such an easy fight at all!
Either way...i guess you got what i wanted to express?!

No, I just wanted to see if you've read any FF comics or fights against teams...Cuz u sound kinda uninformed.

alright, the x-men win this. they really only need nightcrawler and rachel, with storm for backup.

Originally posted by wannabe
Since Nightcrawler does not teleport directly but through the brimstone dimension, Sue Shields wont do her any good.
Rachel or Betsy could shield the X-Men from a novablast, after which Johnny would be down...all X-Men standing, one of the FF down!
And in the process Sue could be creating another expanding shield inside their protective sheilds. This would eventually crush them all against their own sheilds. Torch goes nova they put their sheilds down the are toast. They don't they are crushed.