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all on bloodlust, and pumped:

Thor
Hercules
Raged Hulk
Abomination
Superman
Captain Marvel
Wonder Woman
Namor :in water:
Juggernaut
Titanus
Lobo
Drax
Spike Thing
Ultimate Collosus

hulk will gett busted for doping

Superman?

Juggs or Namor

Damn, you beat me to it. I'd say Juggy, Hulk and that's all I got.
Who is Spike Thing?

How enraged is the Hulk? Depending on the level of his anger, he could conceivably bench everything these lesser beings could with a pinky, or he could be blown out of the water by these other powerhouses. Also, Titanus is something of a wild card, due to the fact that there is almost nil information on him, save that he can KO Savage Hulk rather easily. Because of these variables, the list can wildly vary, depending on Hulk's condition and on Titanus' actual strength. This is my list w/o mercurial characters, assuming that they get all their standard equipment, without any items such as the Power Gem for Drax and the Atlas Gauntlets for Wonder Woman:

1. Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse

2. Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him

3. Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew

4. Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor

5. Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders

6. Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength

7. Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill

8. Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before

9. Namor w/in water for a significant amount of time- while Namor has some great showings while within water for some time, some of his victories are, once again, due to his skill advantage, his speed advantage in water, and the fact that the ocean greatly enhances his durability and regeneration, so that even the strongest of comic book characters can't stand against him in his native element

10. Abomination- Abomination has been able to hang with some of the most powerful heroes in comicdom, he is simply dwarfed by some of these other competitors

11. Spiked Thing- while we did not see much of this buffed-up Thing, he seemed impressive, easily defeating Grey Hulk; however, Thing has been shown to be able to fight, if not for very long, Savage Hulk, even though his strength is Lilliputian in comparison to the Hulk's, with the reasoning behind this being that he is a better fighter, and that his exterior is just that hard, so it is not that big of a stretch to say that Spiked Thing can defeat Grey Hulk; overall, he didn't seem very impressive when compared to the other people on this list

12. Ultimate Colossus- Ultimate Colossus has demonstrated amazing power, but, due to his nature as a populant of the Ultimate Universe, he is severely outclassed here; with many high showings, he should be higher, but, in all likelihood, he will most likely be destroyed according to his official stats, due to the fact that many of his high showing have been equalled, if not outright surpassed, by the majority of his competition

Wait wait...I'll separate this in Marvel & D.C


1 Raged Hulk 1 Superman
2 Drax 2 Lobo
3 Hercules 3 Wonder Woman
4 Thor 4 Captain Marvel
5 Juggernaut
6 Namor :in water:
7 Abomination
8 Spike Thing
9 Ultimate Collosu



Titanus<--- I dunno, one page doesn't show much, but....he could be second.

Good post from a junior member, Hulking Hurler.

Hats off.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Good post from a junior member, Hulking Hurler.

Hats off.
My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
How enraged is the Hulk? Depending on the level of his anger, he could conceivably bench everything these lesser beings could with a pinky, or he could be blown out of the water by these other powerhouses. Also, Titanus is something of a wild card, due to the fact that there is almost nil information on him, save that he can KO Savage Hulk rather easily. Because of these variables, the list can wildly vary, depending on Hulk's condition and on Titanus' actual strength. This is my list w/o mercurial characters, assuming that they get all their standard equipment, without any items such as the Power Gem for Drax and the Atlas Gauntlets for Wonder Woman:

1. Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse

2. Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him

3. Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew

4. Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor

5. Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders

6. Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength

7. Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill

8. Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before

9. Namor w/in water for a significant amount of time- while Namor has some great showings while within water for some time, some of his victories are, once again, due to his skill advantage, his speed advantage in water, and the fact that the ocean greatly enhances his durability and regeneration, so that even the strongest of comic book characters can't stand against him in his native element

10. Abomination- Abomination has been able to hang with some of the most powerful heroes in comicdom, he is simply dwarfed by some of these other competitors

11. Spiked Thing- while we did not see much of this buffed-up Thing, he seemed impressive, easily defeating Grey Hulk; however, Thing has been shown to be able to fight, if not for very long, Savage Hulk, even though his strength is Lilliputian in comparison to the Hulk's, with the reasoning behind this being that he is a better fighter, and that his exterior is just that hard, so it is not that big of a stretch to say that Spiked Thing can defeat Grey Hulk; overall, he didn't seem very impressive when compared to the other people on this list

12. Ultimate Colossus- Ultimate Colossus has demonstrated amazing power, but, due to his nature as a populant of the Ultimate Universe, he is severely outclassed here; with many high showings, he should be higher, but, in all likelihood, he will most likely be destroyed according to his official stats, due to the fact that many of his high showing have been equalled, if not outright surpassed, by the majority of his competition


There is something I find wrong with one thing on this list is that Thor with out his hammer is still strong if he holds his hammer and hits someone like Doomsday he can probably devastate Doomsday with that hit.

I thin LP's is perfect but HH's post was I agree pretty good Originally posted by long pig
Wait wait...I'll separate this in Marvel & D.C


1 Raged Hulk 1 Superman
2 Drax 2 Lobo
3 Hercules 3 Wonder Woman
4 Thor 4 Captain Marvel
5 Juggernaut
6 Namor :in water:
7 Abomination
8 Spike Thing
9 Ultimate Collosu



Titanus<--- I dunno, one page doesn't show much, but....he could be second.

Dont mean to be technical, but some of the characters, who aren't real lifter types, could be brought down a notch simply because of his form...

Finally, the respect I so utterly deserve.

Gotta go w/ Hulk, easily. His anger will increase proportionately every time another school bus, elephant, naval destroyer, diesel (train) engine is thrown onto the pile. After every competitor has been eliminated, he then asks all the other guys to hop on for s***s n' giggles.

Hulk Mad! Hulk Lift! This is purely a strength contest...one that is "taylor-made" for the Hulk to win. He could start out at base levels...wouldn't matter. Every time, it's his turn underneath the pile, his adrenaline will shoot through the roof, allowing him to press the pile with ease. It's that, or he faces being squished like a grape.

He would never dare ask his fellow "spotters" to step in and remove the items on the pile to avoid getting crushed....too stupid to know any better anyway.

Originally posted by BobbyD
Gotta go w/ Hulk, easily. His anger will increase proportionately every time another school bus, elephant, naval destroyer, diesel (train) engine is thrown onto the pile. After every competitor has been eliminated, he then asks all the other guys to hop on for s***s n' giggles.

Hulk Mad! Hulk Lift! This is purely a strength contest...one that is "taylor-made" for the Hulk to win. He could start out at base levels...wouldn't matter. Every time, it's his turn underneath the pile, his adrenaline will shoot through the roof, allowing him to press the pile with ease. It's that, or he faces being squished like a grape.

He would never dare ask his fellow "spotters" to step in and remove the items on the pile to avoid getting crushed....too stupid to know any better anyway.
Actually....no.

Without antagonists to fuel his rage, he really isn't even in the 100 ton level.

So, if they are just lifting weights, without antagonizing each other, Hulk is second to last.

I forgot all about that.

Originally posted by long pig
Actually....no.

Without antagonists to fuel his rage, he really isn't even in the 100 ton level.

So, if they are just lifting weights, without antagonizing each other, Hulk is second to last.

I forgot all about that. With that much testosterone around . . . Yeah Hulk could win.

Unless they're seperated out into different locations. . .

Long pig, what more motivation does he need? Not to be a jerk, but his motivation is life or death.

Here me out: picture two 1x1x1 inch cubes that weigh as much as Mars on a bar, while Hulk is lying on the bench ready to perform one bench press rep. All the other contestants are the spotters. They all assist in agonizingly lifting the bar, and release on Hulk's count.

If he fails, he dies. He will win this tourney walking away. It may not even get to those two 1 in cubes that each weigh as much as Mars.

Great list by the way, Hulking Hurler. I mean I could be wrong, but this to me seems like a cake walk for the Jolly Green Giant

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
How enraged is the Hulk? Depending on the level of his anger, he could conceivably bench everything these lesser beings could with a pinky, or he could be blown out of the water by these other powerhouses. Also, Titanus is something of a wild card, due to the fact that there is almost nil information on him, save that he can KO Savage Hulk rather easily. Because of these variables, the list can wildly vary, depending on Hulk's condition and on Titanus' actual strength. This is my list w/o mercurial characters, assuming that they get all their standard equipment, without any items such as the Power Gem for Drax and the Atlas Gauntlets for Wonder Woman:

1. Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse

2. Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him

3. Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew

4. Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor

5. Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders

6. Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength

7. Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill

8. Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before

9. Namor w/in water for a significant amount of time- while Namor has some great showings while within water for some time, some of his victories are, once again, due to his skill advantage, his speed advantage in water, and the fact that the ocean greatly enhances his durability and regeneration, so that even the strongest of comic book characters can't stand against him in his native element

10. Abomination- Abomination has been able to hang with some of the most powerful heroes in comicdom, he is simply dwarfed by some of these other competitors

11. Spiked Thing- while we did not see much of this buffed-up Thing, he seemed impressive, easily defeating Grey Hulk; however, Thing has been shown to be able to fight, if not for very long, Savage Hulk, even though his strength is Lilliputian in comparison to the Hulk's, with the reasoning behind this being that he is a better fighter, and that his exterior is just that hard, so it is not that big of a stretch to say that Spiked Thing can defeat Grey Hulk; overall, he didn't seem very impressive when compared to the other people on this list

12. Ultimate Colossus- Ultimate Colossus has demonstrated amazing power, but, due to his nature as a populant of the Ultimate Universe, he is severely outclassed here; with many high showings, he should be higher, but, in all likelihood, he will most likely be destroyed according to his official stats, due to the fact that many of his high showing have been equalled, if not outright surpassed, by the majority of his competition
Oh yeah, you are right.ROTFL
Drax with his low intelligence stalemated Warrior Madness Thor, and Drax was in possess of the Power Gem.

The correct list is:
1.Juggernaut, Hulk and Immortal Hercules
2.Drax
3.Lobo/Supes/Thor same range.
4.Wonder Woman
5.Captain Marvel
6.Namor
7.Ultimate Colossus and Spikey Thing
8.Abomination

1.Juggernaut and Hulk are basically the two unstoppable forces on Marvel Earth, Juggy's magic grants him incalculable strenght, so is for Hulk's rage, this puts them on top.
Tough Immortal Hercules supported the Eart Weight, without much effort, his strenght is on an incalculable range, so he can match the two above with ease.
2.Drax was able to stalemate W.M. Thor, tapping into the Power Gem without using his full power, so he's above the Thunder God, Lobo and Supes, especially cause if he's in this contest with his normal intelligence, he'll best them and probably reach the rankings of Juggy, Herc and Hulk.
3.Lobo has bested Supes more than once, while Kal El and Thor both have impressive feats of strenght, Lobo was able to beat Supes cause he's a more ruthless fighter, brutal, expert and he has the killer instinct thing, but in a pure strenght contest, those 3 are on the same league.
4.Wonder Woman has recently acquired strenght above that of CM, so she's above Billy, not by far, but she's here.
5.Captain Marvel, magical superman, was able to give major troubles to Supes before, tough he's not his equal, he's still hella strong, but not he's the guys above.
6.Namor, Avenging Son has showed great physical strenght, tough in a hth fight he'll show his own as usual with the guys above, he's not on the same league.
7.UC and ST showed great physical strenght but they aren't on the Powerhouse ranking, they are mid/low level strong guys, tough they can do their job very well, their only fault is the top guys outclass them by far.
8.Abomination has a considerable strenght, tough he's probably just few steps under UC and ST, he'll give them a fight, but then fall, and certainly he's not enough for those above UC and ST.

Superman is atleast top 2, he can lift 100,000 tons, the Hulk would have to be Super enraged to reach that, and the others on the list just cant come near it, and whatever Supes can lift so can Manhunter, so they tie. Lobo is right under Supes, and Captain Marvel if not splitting his power or pulling his strenght(which he is known for doing) can lift as much as lobo. from there on who knows


i dont know about drax so i cant say anything on him, but the resgt cant keep up a Raged hulk is sstill only at bout 400tons, Superboy can outlift that(if you can count the tactile), Juggs is at about 300ton range maybe farther but not too far...and the rest well who cares? they lose.

Considering Hulk does use his rage here to high levels he most likely takes this one. Otherwise he wouldnt be one of the top.

Hulking Lurker post was good. But there are things that i respectfully dont agree. Lets see :

"Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse"

Kind of agree. If Drax is using the gem he takes this. If not...honestly i cant tell. Does he ever looked different with or without it? I mean he tecnically should, right. The gem is a boost after all.

"Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him"

Classic Juggernaut at regular levels its at the top because we can see it by the fights he had. However he didnt displayed any lifting feats. And about besting the ones you meantioned. Nope, he stalemate all those and defeated Hulk once when he was Merged.

( He also trashed Thor on another occasion but he was amped.)

"Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew"

Have to agree that the aura gives him an edge. He has a moon feat but not planetary without boosts. ( the earth one with help and the Spectre showed the heroes failing the deeds).

"Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor"

Immortal Hercules has few low showings. All the ones of the list have them for that matter. Drax less tho. He was created to fight Thanos after all.

About this i give him an edge over Superman. In this case in raw strenght -only-.

The Myths are cannon in comics. Wich means he either held the earth or the heavens. Both in DC and Marvel. The earth feat seems the one that has shown in flasbacks and statements at both companies. Superman without a sundip boost its a moon mover but not a planet one.

"Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders"

Up there with Hercules. and in true without boosts he has plenetary feats also. Either a notch below Herk or equal (practically all showings have them as equal). Again any edge he may have its in raw strenght only. Figthing skills its another matter, that doesnt aplly here.

"Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength"

Not much to say. If he is the one during his comic in the 90`s, he was stronger than Superman. Superior figthing skills and other mad over the top abilities. How is he in the current version? More, the same or less powerful.

"Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill"

Agree and dont agree. She only won against the Hercules of her universe pre crisis. And also lost in return. I dont know if there wer more fights but based on the ones i know they wer tied. Hercules pre crisis was also stated to be as strong as Superman before in his action comics appearances. Same with cap Marvel and Atlas. Post crisis her and Hercules never fought. Both claimed to be stronger. I give the edge over Hercules for the fact he has more feats on a higher level. Especially plenetary ones.

Wonder Woman also is in my opinion very slighty behind Superman. The two fights that she won over skill, had her in the more physical disavantage. Like the last fight she had in # 219. Overall skills shes the best of this group for sure.

"Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before"

Dont agree. Superman and Marvel have been stated as equals more than once. In fact he has better feat comparations than Diana does against kal. Stalemated him twice in two armwrestlings, knocked him out twice post crisis and had the physical advantage in Superman/Batman #3. Mind you im not selling Wonder Woman short. She, Hercules, Supes and Marvel as well as Thor are all rougly in the same class. But some have a slight different spot in that tier.

Ill make the list after, but wanted to give my opinion about those.

Originally posted by long pig
Wait wait...I'll separate this in Marvel & D.C


1 Raged Hulk 1 Superman
2 Drax 2 Lobo
3 Hercules 3 Wonder Woman
4 Thor 4 Captain Marvel
5 Juggernaut
6 Namor :in water:
7 Abomination
8 Spike Thing
9 Ultimate Collosu



Titanus<--- I dunno, one page doesn't show much, but....he could be second.


this looks good to me

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
How enraged is the Hulk? Depending on the level of his anger, he could conceivably bench everything these lesser beings could with a pinky, or he could be blown out of the water by these other powerhouses. Also, Titanus is something of a wild card, due to the fact that there is almost nil information on him, save that he can KO Savage Hulk rather easily. Because of these variables, the list can wildly vary, depending on Hulk's condition and on Titanus' actual strength. This is my list w/o mercurial characters, assuming that they get all their standard equipment, without any items such as the Power Gem for Drax and the Atlas Gauntlets for Wonder Woman:

1. Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse

2. Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him

3. Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew

4. Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor

5. Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders

6. Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength

7. Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill

8. Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before

9. Namor w/in water for a significant amount of time- while Namor has some great showings while within water for some time, some of his victories are, once again, due to his skill advantage, his speed advantage in water, and the fact that the ocean greatly enhances his durability and regeneration, so that even the strongest of comic book characters can't stand against him in his native element

10. Abomination- Abomination has been able to hang with some of the most powerful heroes in comicdom, he is simply dwarfed by some of these other competitors

11. Spiked Thing- while we did not see much of this buffed-up Thing, he seemed impressive, easily defeating Grey Hulk; however, Thing has been shown to be able to fight, if not for very long, Savage Hulk, even though his strength is Lilliputian in comparison to the Hulk's, with the reasoning behind this being that he is a better fighter, and that his exterior is just that hard, so it is not that big of a stretch to say that Spiked Thing can defeat Grey Hulk; overall, he didn't seem very impressive when compared to the other people on this list

12. Ultimate Colossus- Ultimate Colossus has demonstrated amazing power, but, due to his nature as a populant of the Ultimate Universe, he is severely outclassed here; with many high showings, he should be higher, but, in all likelihood, he will most likely be destroyed according to his official stats, due to the fact that many of his high showing have been equalled, if not outright surpassed, by the majority of his competition

Good post but i don't agree with alot of it. Im not going to try and persuade you guys differently, because I know whats going to happen. I'm sick of pissing everyone off with my so called 'wacky' ideas. All i can say is that Special Relativity was seen a 'wacky' idea. I think Albert Einstien had the last laugh in the end.

By the way this is my list but just ignore it if you want:

1. Drax the Destreoyer + Power Gem
2. Superman
3. Peak Hulk (E.G. when he's impressive and he's not fighting his average Fights)
4. Lobo
5.Wonder Woman
6.Immortal Herc
7.Thor
8. Captain Marvel
9.Namor
10.Classic Juggernaught
11.Ultimate Colossus
12.Abomination
13.Spiky Thing

Sorry Guys, but you suck . Well some of the time anyway.

Originally posted by olympian
Considering Hulk does use his rage here to high levels he most likely takes this one. Otherwise he wouldnt be one of the top.

Hulking Lurker post was good. But there are things that i respectfully dont agree. Lets see :

"Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse"

Kind of agree. If Drax is using the gem he takes this. If not...honestly i cant tell. Does he ever looked different with or without it? I mean he tecnically should, right. The gem is a boost after all.

"Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him"

Classic Juggernaut at regular levels its at the top because we can see it by the fights he had. However he didnt displayed any lifting feats. And about besting the ones you meantioned. Nope, he stalemate all those and defeated Hulk once when he was Merged.

( He also trashed Thor on another occasion but he was amped.)

"Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew"

Have to agree that the aura gives him an edge. He has a moon feat but not planetary without boosts. ( the earth one with help and the Spectre showed the heroes failing the deeds).

"Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor"

Immortal Hercules has few low showings. All the ones of the list have them for that matter. Drax less tho. He was created to fight Thanos after all.

About this i give him an edge over Superman. In this case in raw strenght -only-.

The Myths are cannon in comics. Wich means he either held the earth or the heavens. Both in DC and Marvel. The earth feat seems the one that has shown in flasbacks and statements at both companies. Superman without a sundip boost its a moon mover but not a planet one.

"Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders"

Up there with Hercules. and in true without boosts he has plenetary feats also. Either a notch below Herk or equal (practically all showings have them as equal). Again any edge he may have its in raw strenght only. Figthing skills its another matter, that doesnt aplly here.

"Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength"

Not much to say. If he is the one during his comic in the 90`s, he was stronger than Superman. Superior figthing skills and other mad over the top abilities. How is he in the current version? More, the same or less powerful.

"Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill"

Agree and dont agree. She only won against the Hercules of her universe pre crisis. And also lost in return. I dont know if there wer more fights but based on the ones i know they wer tied. Hercules pre crisis was also stated to be as strong as Superman before in his action comics appearances. Same with cap Marvel and Atlas. Post crisis her and Hercules never fought. Both claimed to be stronger. I give the edge over Hercules for the fact he has more feats on a higher level. Especially plenetary ones.

Wonder Woman also is in my opinion very slighty behind Superman. The two fights that she won over skill, had her in the more physical disavantage. Like the last fight she had in # 219. Overall skills shes the best of this group for sure.

"Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before"

Dont agree. Superman and Marvel have been stated as equals more than once. In fact he has better feat comparations than Diana does against kal. Stalemated him twice in two armwrestlings, knocked him out twice post crisis and had the physical advantage in Superman/Batman #3. Mind you im not selling Wonder Woman short. She, Hercules, Supes and Marvel as well as Thor are all rougly in the same class. But some have a slight different spot in that tier.

Ill make the list after, but wanted to give my opinion about those. Shazam has also been portrayed as significantly weaker than Supes on many occasions. In DC Heros, CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans. According to it, Superman can EASILY lift 25 trillion tons without even 'performing a feat' which can increase your stats signicantly.. With a feat, he could catapault himself into 100's of trillions or more fairly easily and much farther beyond.

Its that some kind of handbook or guide?

He was never considered weaker than Superman in the comics post crisis.
And Pre crisis he actually had wins and loses against kal.
What makes me think its a guide of some sort and not comics its this part:
"CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans"

Wich is totaly wrong. Anywhere near in the level of Superman would mean none of the two is in the same class he is. And they are. How about examples? Wonder Woman in countdown to infinite crisis (a comic) was rated as being in the same class of strenght of Supes.

And Marvel was always called its equal, even by Superman itself. (several comics, two of them in his own titles).

Originally posted by olympian
Its that some kind of handbook or guide?

He was never considered weaker than Superman in the comics post crisis.

And Pre crisis he actually had wins and loses against kal.

What makes me think its a guide of some sort and not comics its this part:

"CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans"

Wich is totaly wrong. Anywhere near in the level of Superman would mean none of the two is in the same class he is. How about examples? Wonder Woman in cuntdown to infinite crisis ( a comic) was rated as being in the same class of strenght of Supes.

And Marvel was always called its equal, even by Superan itself. ( several comics). But Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman. Wonder Woman lost to one of the weak Gods on Apocalypse in Batman/Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself and took him the source wall and slammed him into it. lol. Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis.

"Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis."

Its the same thing as the Marvel handbooks. Its not comics and has innacurances in comparation with them. Wonder Woman for example has two wins against Superman post crisis.

"But Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman"

When? Dont you mean Wonder Woman # 219 ? She is sligthy below but it doesnt translate being on a level down or more. Thats why she was able to hurt him and actually - winning - the figth.

"Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself"

Darkseid post crisis its nothing more than a joke. He lost to Superman already like three times in continuity, and was served by Orion. He cant get a single win.

Originally posted by olympian
"Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis."

Its the same thing as the Marvel handbooks. Its not comics and has innacurances in comparation with them. Wonder Woman for example has two wins against Superman post crisis.

"But Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman"

When? Dont you mean Wonder Woman # 219 ? She is sligthy below but it doesnt translate being on a level down or more. Thats why she was able to hurt him and actually - winning - the figth.

"Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself"

Darkseid post crisis its nothing more than a joke. He lost to Superman already like three times in continuity, and was served by Orion. He cant get a single win. He's been beaten by Superman only that many times since OWAW, after Supes' sundip.. he stepped up to a whole new level. Supes never beat him before that. And Orion is another god, his own son in fact. I don't remember Orion defeating him, outside of ELSEWORLD comics, but I do recall Darkseid defeating pretty anyone ever that has stepped to him in less than 5 moves even whole teams..., outside of Superman, and I guess Orion too.

"He's been beaten by Superman only that many times since OWAW, after Supes' sundip"

And had troubles against Byrne Superman (weakest version ever) where in Pre Crisis with two punches would put him into a coma or kill him.

"And Orion is another god, his own son in fact"

And? He never had it easy against Pre Crisis Darkseid. Not even against Kalibak and post crisis Orin has knocked him out with one shot.

"I don't remember Orion defeating him"

Straight up fight. It was actually the best fight Darkseid put up post crisis, he looked competent. But still lost. Simonson run, Orion # 5.

"but I do recall Darkseid defeating pretty anyone ever that has stepped to him in less than 5 moves even whole teams"

That would be either Pre Crisis or Elseworlds?

Originally posted by olympian

That would be either Pre Crisis or Elseworlds? Ahh.. pre-crisis, post crisis, elseworlds, whatever. lol.

Its not the same thing

Pre crisis he was beating on everyone. Post crisis he gets beaten. Elsewords are out of continuity.

Hes a joke these days anyway. A nice work by DC.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Oh yeah, you are right.ROTFL
Drax with his low intelligence stalemated Warrior Madness Thor, and Drax was in possess of the Power Gem.

The correct list is:
1.Juggernaut, Hulk and Immortal Hercules
2.Drax
3.Lobo/Supes/Thor same range.
4.Wonder Woman
5.Captain Marvel
6.Namor
7.Ultimate Colossus and Spikey Thing
8.Abomination

1.Juggernaut and Hulk are basically the two unstoppable forces on Marvel Earth, Juggy's magic grants him incalculable strenght, so is for Hulk's rage, this puts them on top.
Tough Immortal Hercules supported the Eart Weight, without much effort, his strenght is on an incalculable range, so he can match the two above with ease.
2.Drax was able to stalemate W.M. Thor, tapping into the Power Gem without using his full power, so he's above the Thunder God, Lobo and Supes, especially cause if he's in this contest with his normal intelligence, he'll best them and probably reach the rankings of Juggy, Herc and Hulk.
3.Lobo has bested Supes more than once, while Kal El and Thor both have impressive feats of strenght, Lobo was able to beat Supes cause he's a more ruthless fighter, brutal, expert and he has the killer instinct thing, but in a pure strenght contest, those 3 are on the same league.
4.Wonder Woman has recently acquired strenght above that of CM, so she's above Billy, not by far, but she's here.
5.Captain Marvel, magical superman, was able to give major troubles to Supes before, tough he's not his equal, he's still hella strong, but not he's the guys above.
6.Namor, Avenging Son has showed great physical strenght, tough in a hth fight he'll show his own as usual with the guys above, he's not on the same league.
7.UC and ST showed great physical strenght but they aren't on the Powerhouse ranking, they are mid/low level strong guys, tough they can do their job very well, their only fault is the top guys outclass them by far.
8.Abomination has a considerable strenght, tough he's probably just few steps under UC and ST, he'll give them a fight, but then fall, and certainly he's not enough for those above UC and ST.

1. Thor was in Warrior Madness Form. He doen't just fly into a berserker rage, he actually achieve a magical state that enhances his abilities. Do you think a regular Thor could stalemate Thanos?

2. I excluded Hulk, because his strength varies according to rage.

3. Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength on par with the greatest of terrestial superheroes, and while he has never shown a limit to his strength, he has not demonstrated strength that puts him above everybody else, IMO. While absence of proof does not necessarily equate to proof absence, the reverse is not necessarily true either.

4. Immortal Hercules lifted the weight of Uranus, the sky, with leverage. He did not take the entire weight of Gaia onto his shoulders, and while the weight of the air on Earth is an inconeivable amount, it is a showing that has been matched before.

5. I agree about you with Drax, save for reaching the top three.

6. That's basically what I said about Lobo, and, while Thor does gain strength from Mjolnir, I don't think he can match the two superheroes above him without additional enhancement.

7. I did put Wonder Woman above Captain Marvel.

8. That's what I said, that while he given fights to Superman before, he is not his equal physically.

9. Yes, I said that much of his advantage in fights comes from the water itself, not from his strength boost while within his natural enviorment.

10. I said that Spiked Thing, while impressive, did not necessarily have to be much stronger, as Thing's greatest attributes against other powerhouses are his durability and his greater skill than mindless brutes.

11. I put Ultimate Colossus last because, while he has high showings, his stats do not support them, at all.

12. Would you really put Ultimate Colossus above Abomination? Sure, Colossus has shown strength unparalleled in his universe, but this is the mainstream 616, and here, he is completely outclassed, even by Abomination,.

Originally posted by olympian
Considering Hulk does use his rage here to high levels he most likely takes this one. Otherwise he wouldnt be one of the top.

Hulking Lurker post was good. But there are things that i respectfully dont agree. Lets see :

"Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse"

Kind of agree. If Drax is using the gem he takes this. If not...honestly i cant tell. Does he ever looked different with or without it? I mean he tecnically should, right. The gem is a boost after all.

"Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him"

Classic Juggernaut at regular levels its at the top because we can see it by the fights he had. However he didnt displayed any lifting feats. And about besting the ones you meantioned. Nope, he stalemate all those and defeated Hulk once when he was Merged.

( He also trashed Thor on another occasion but he was amped.)

"Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew"

Have to agree that the aura gives him an edge. He has a moon feat but not planetary without boosts. ( the earth one with help and the Spectre showed the heroes failing the deeds).

"Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor"

Immortal Hercules has few low showings. All the ones of the list have them for that matter. Drax less tho. He was created to fight Thanos after all.

About this i give him an edge over Superman. In this case in raw strenght -only-.

The Myths are cannon in comics. Wich means he either held the earth or the heavens. Both in DC and Marvel. The earth feat seems the one that has shown in flasbacks and statements at both companies. Superman without a sundip boost its a moon mover but not a planet one.

"Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders"

Up there with Hercules. and in true without boosts he has plenetary feats also. Either a notch below Herk or equal (practically all showings have them as equal). Again any edge he may have its in raw strenght only. Figthing skills its another matter, that doesnt aplly here.

"Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength"

Not much to say. If he is the one during his comic in the 90`s, he was stronger than Superman. Superior figthing skills and other mad over the top abilities. How is he in the current version? More, the same or less powerful.

"Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill"

Agree and dont agree. She only won against the Hercules of her universe pre crisis. And also lost in return. I dont know if there wer more fights but based on the ones i know they wer tied. Hercules pre crisis was also stated to be as strong as Superman before in his action comics appearances. Same with cap Marvel and Atlas. Post crisis her and Hercules never fought. Both claimed to be stronger. I give the edge over Hercules for the fact he has more feats on a higher level. Especially plenetary ones.

Wonder Woman also is in my opinion very slighty behind Superman. The two fights that she won over skill, had her in the more physical disavantage. Like the last fight she had in # 219. Overall skills shes the best of this group for sure.

"Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before"

Dont agree. Superman and Marvel have been stated as equals more than once. In fact he has better feat comparations than Diana does against kal. Stalemated him twice in two armwrestlings, knocked him out twice post crisis and had the physical advantage in Superman/Batman #3. Mind you im not selling Wonder Woman short. She, Hercules, Supes and Marvel as well as Thor are all rougly in the same class. But some have a slight different spot in that tier.

Ill make the list after, but wanted to give my opinion about those.

1. Since you didn't seem to really attack my decision there, I don't think there is anything to respond to.

2. While there is no real proof in his appearances, for him to harm many of his opponents, Thor mostly, his strength would have to be way up there. Like Hulk, he has never demonstrated a limit, and while the Gem of Cyttorak most likely does not grant infinite strength, I think it's safe to assume that the strength is only a close second to the durability.

3. According to the myths, Hercules held up Uranus, and possibly Hemera and Aether, but certainly not Gaia. While holding up the heavens is an impressive feat, Thor has lifted the trunk of Niddhogg according to myth, and he is supposedly heavier then Yggsadril, which is the cosmos. While that feat is not canonical, I feel it illustrates the ancient's mthod of viewing feats of strength, that is, illogically.

4. Thor has planetary feats, yes, but much of his strength is from Mjolnir, and much of his damage stems from Mjolnir too, and while he has stalemated Hercules in contests of strength, I feel that Hercules' Olympian lineage might just grant him in edge in sheer weight-lifting.

5. By Lobo, I mean current. He seems to be far weaker than his older runs, as the writer himself professed hatred for the character, and stated that he would ruin Lobo. And yes, while his older runs might have him above Superman in most things, this newer run has him, by far, less powerful.

6. I put Wonder Woman below those two, so I didn't really see the problem, and yes, IMO, she only beats Superman because of skill and magic.

7. Yes, but Marvel has been stated to be below Wonder Woman, who is considered 2nd strongest, after Superman. Besides, he is not Superman's real equal, as his wins mostly stem from, IMO, his magical boons.

Don't add the power Gem people.

Power Gem automatically means infinite strength, anyone with it has limitess strength.


Such bullshit, D.C is a fool for that.

"According to the myths, Hercules held up Uranus, and possibly Hemera and Aether, but certainly not Gaia. While holding up the heavens is an impressive feat, Thor has lifted the trunk of Niddhogg according to myth, and he is supposedly heavier then Yggsadril, which is the cosmos. While that feat is not canonical, I feel it illustrates the ancient's mthod of viewing feats of strength, that is, illogically"

Helding the Uranos and helding Gaea aka the earth are of ancient Greek origin. Both versions exist. And both arent that different in nature. The two wer primordial cosmic/abstract beings. They are illogical, but then again all the feats we are talking about here, are as well.

Not to mention, both at Marvel and DC the Earth feat has been referenced before. Even we go by the Uranos feat wich is helding the whole weight of a primordial cosmic being its still above what Superman for example is able to pul off with no power ups on a regular basis. He did tried lifting Spectre with help, and failed.

"Thor has planetary feats, yes, but much of his strength is from Mjolnir, and much of his damage stems from Mjolnir too, and while he has stalemated Hercules in contests of strength, I feel that Hercules' Olympian lineage might just grant him in edge in sheer weight-lifting."

I feel that Hercules in raw strenght its a notch above. However its not by the lineage. At Marvel, Thors mother its Gaea. Both he and Herakles never showed -not- to be able to lift something they encountered. And yes both have planetery feats. I feel if we go by average theyr equal according what marvel always showed.

And Thor doesnt need Mjolnir for strenght per se. As an example ill trow the armwrestling match he and Hercules had and that after destroying the mountain plaeateu (wer they wer doing the match) it was stated as generatting enought pressure to knock a planet off its orbit. With no weapons at play.

He also accomplished the Midgard Serpent feat without it and in the myth he lifted one of the "cats" paws the same way. ( altho in myth there was never given any limit to the Serpents size).

"By Lobo, I mean current. He seems to be far weaker than his older runs, as the writer himself professed hatred for the character, and stated that he would ruin Lobo. And yes, while his older runs might have him above Superman in most things, this newer run has him, by far, less powerful"

Got it. Wich is a shame because it really gets him below in the list.

"I put Wonder Woman below those two, so I didn't really see the problem, and yes, IMO, she only beats Superman because of skill and magic."

I didnt particullary disagreed. It was more with you getting Captain Marvel below, when i see him more on par with the other two than her.

"Yes, but Marvel has been stated to be below Wonder Woman, who is considered 2nd strongest, after Superman. Besides, he is not Superman's real equal, as his wins mostly stem from, IMO, his magical boons."

I guess i wont agree with this one. Wonder Woman its a particular case of the offices saying she is second to only Superman, and in one case like Byrne actually stating it in a comic. However failing all the time to show it. Marvel has stalemates with Superman. Without using any magic attack (or trick like most would call) he has hurt Superman and made him bleed without being hurt in return. Hes been called and stated as equal more times and actually being showed with his track record against Superman and the like. (im also thinking about the Nero Underworld fight where he with one arm held its own against the JLA and was able to toss them aside). He has no particullary low showings as Diana have as well.

In all there is alot i agree with. And others i disagree. And if you are new to the boards, welcome!

we should of added doomsday

"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.

What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????

I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.

'But he didn't know how strong he was'

Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.

What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?

Originally posted by yahman
"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.

What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????

I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.

'But he didn't know how strong he was'

Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.

What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?

When did you forget that his character wasn't totally developed while underneath the rocks?
He wasn't even in the 20 ton range when he first appeared.

I've seen Jug knock through buildings the size of the empire state, and jump out of solid blocks of steel.

In the past 20 years, after being fully developed, he hasn't shown a limit.

Get it? Good.

If we go by your logic, Thing would only be able to lift 4 tons, like he did in the beginning.

Originally posted by yahman
"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.

What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????

I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.

'But he didn't know how strong he was'

Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.

What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?
I assume you are referring to me, so I will respond. If you are not, then please ignore this post.

First of all, those quotes are not mine. Second, that doesn't show any real limit to strength. Juggernaut is not famed for his speed or intelligence; perhaps he was both too dumb to think of shattering the mountain and too slow to just pulp the rock on top of him. Besides, do you really think Juggernaut would stand a chance against everybody he's damaged is his strength was as low as you seem to claim it is? Just because his durability is greater than most non-cosmics does not mean that his strength isn't either.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
First of all, that second quote is not mine. Second, that doesn't show any real limit to strength. Juggernaut is not famed for his speed or intelligence; perhaps he was both too dumb to think of shattering the mountain and too slow to just pulp the rock on top of him. Besides, do you really think Juggernaut would stand a chance against everybody he's damaged is his strength was as low as you seem to claim it is? Just because his durability is greater than most non-cosmics does not mean that his strength isn't either.
Would it not make sense that Cyttorak would make his strength equal to his durability?

Originally posted by long pig
Would it not make sense that Cyttorak would make his strength equal to his durability?
Would it really make more sense than Cyttorak causing Juggernaut's durability to be higher than his strength? Perhaps Juggernaut never accessed full potential until the Eight Day occurred, and, at that point, the full powers of the Gem became his.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
I assume you are referring to me, so I will respond. If you are not, then please ignore this post.

First of all, those quotes are not mine. Second, that doesn't show any real limit to strength. Juggernaut is not famed for his speed or intelligence; perhaps he was both too dumb to think of shattering the mountain and too slow to just pulp the rock on top of him. Besides, do you really think Juggernaut would stand a chance against everybody he's damaged is his strength was as low as you seem to claim it is? Just because his durability is greater than most non-cosmics does not mean that his strength isn't either.

Um mm how Low have i exactly claimed it to be ?

'He was too dumb to think of Shattering the mountain?'

How exactly did he get out ?.... He Punched his way out. And yet he never once thought of using his full strength during this process. Bullshit !!!!!!!!!

Ultron can successfully take on entire teams. Yet a mechanical duplicates of himself strained lifting 90 tons. Why is it that he can take on entire teams? He's made out of Adamantium. He therefore cannot be hurt. Juggernaut has greater durability than even Ultron. He also has greater strength.With this in mind think it becomes quite apparent why he has had victories.

I've seen the Sky scraper thing....Impressive, yet it is pail in comparison to the Other character's feats. Yet it is probably Juggernaut's most impressive feat. And don't forget the building was unstable due the previous explosion.

Juggernaut has never shown that he is as strong as most of the other characters in this discussion.

He has shown his strength by simply beating them in h2h combat by way of punching and throwing.

That's all you should need.

If he can stalemate Thor is a strength lock, then it's obvious he is as strong as Thor. And since Jugs doesn't tire, he is probably stronger.

If Jug can stalemate a raging Hulk in a strength lock, then it's obvious he is on the strength level of a raging Hulk.

If Jug can smash Thing in three hits, then it's obvious he's far far far superior to Thing in strength.

The Incredible Hulk is stronger there is.....no one is stronger as The Incredible Hulk.

Originally posted by yahman
Um mm how Low have i exactly claimed it to be ?

'He was too dumb to think of Shattering the mountain?'

How exactly did he get out ?.... He Punched his way out. And yet he never once thought of using his full strength during this process. Bullshit !!!!!!!!!

Ultron can successfully take on entire teams. Yet a mechanical duplicates of himself strained lifting 90 tons. Why is it that he can take on entire teams? He's made out of Adamantium. He therefore cannot be hurt. Juggernaut has greater durability than even Ultron. He also has greater strength.With this in mind think it becomes quite apparent why he has had victories.

I've seen the Sky scraper thing....Impressive, yet it is pail in comparison to the Other character's feats. Yet it is probably Juggernaut's most impressive feat. And don't forget the building was unstable due the previous explosion.

Juggernaut has never shown that he is as strong as most of the other characters in this discussion.
Could you please quote me correctly? That's not the entire sentence, and that line you took out of context is not word-for-word either.

Weren't those Ultron clones second-grade? Ultron was a higher class of admantium I believe, and also, the admantium used to create those clone Ultrons seemed shoddy in comparison with the real one.

Think about the durability-strength comparison this way: Juggernaut has taken on beings with super-speed, such as Hulk and Thor. While Thor chose to play dumb, like he does from time to time, Hulk fights to the greatest extent of his ability, utilizing his full speed, which is at the very least, Mach 3. Yet Juggernaut can hand Hulk his ass from time to time. Secondly, Juggernaut has KO'ed the Thing in 3 blows. It takes the Hulk far longer, yet, of all the people on this list, he is far-and-away the strongest if angry enough. His limit does not exist, as he has axtually demonstrated infinite strength before. Yet, he still cannot defeat the Thing relatively quickly. He has shown strength greater than that of Celestials, yet he cannot completely crush the Thing like Juggernaut did. Even if you make the argument that it is due to Hulk's relatively low starting threshold, his strength grows in leaps and bounds. And if Hulk, literally the strongest there is, has not shown the ability to decimate the Thing in the way that Juggernaut has, it follows that Juggernaut is, at the very least, a high CL 100.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
Could you please quote me correctly? That's not the entire sentence, and that line you took out of context is not word-for-word either.

Weren't those Ultron clones second-grade? Ultron was a higher class of admantium I believe, and also, the admantium used to create those clone Ultrons seemed shoddy in comparison with the real one.

Think about the durability-strength comparison this way: Juggernaut has taken on beings with super-speed, such as Hulk and Thor. While Thor chose to play dumb, like he does from time to time, Hulk fights to the greatest extent of his ability, utilizing his full speed, which is at the very least, Mach 3. Yet Juggernaut can hand Hulk his ass from time to time. Secondly, Juggernaut has KO'ed the Thing in 3 blows. It takes the Hulk far longer, yet, of all the people on this list, he is far-and-away the strongest if angry enough. His limit does not exist, as he has axtually demonstrated infinite strength before. Yet, he still cannot defeat the Thing relatively quickly. He has shown strength greater than that of Celestials, yet he cannot completely crush the Thing like Juggernaut did. Even if you make the argument that it is due to Hulk's relatively low starting threshold, his strength grows in leaps and bounds. And if Hulk, literally the strongest there is, has not shown the ability to decimate the Thing in the way that Juggernaut has, it follows that Juggernaut is, at the very least, a high CL 100.

So wait a moment your arguement is all based on something that happened in a crossover ?
Mate you'll have to do better than that.


And Long Pig your's is based on the fact that they were locked in a strength lock.

As G.S. would put it : Puuhhh lease

p.S. if you had read Ultron Unlimited you would realise i wasn't referring to the 2nd Grade Adamantium Ultrons.

Originally posted by yahman
So wait a moment your arguement is all based on something that happened in a crossover ?
Mate you'll have to do better than that.


And Long Pig your's is based on the fact that they were locked in a strength lock.

As G.S. would put it : Puuhhh lease
At what point was mine based on a crossover? I assume you're talking about an inter-company crossover, not a company-wide crossover, as I used only Thing, Juggernaut, and the Hulk in my argument. If you mean Secret Wars, I know it is considered bull by many people, but it is still canonical, regardless of how terribly written it was. Only crossovers that match characters from a different company against characters from a company separate from the former company are not considered usable in a debate on these forums. Dismissing a fact just because it does not suit your argument is not a viable tactic in a debate. Anyways, the argument before the one you just ridiculed was not based on a crossover. All you're doing is attacking my argument. If you want to win, you will eventually need to prove that Juggernaut is weak instead of just insulting my posts.

Yeah but if your going to use Hulk when in Rage what about Drax with the Power Gem and When he fought Thanos when he is enraged. Also Where is Kurse in this Match

Thats because Thing ain't going to sit there and Brawl with Hulk he would get his butt handed to him he uses skill when he fights Hulk. Also this crap about Superman Lifting 100,000 tons Hulk has held a Moutain which I heard weight 150,000,000,000 tons

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
At what point was mine based on a crossover? I assume you're talking about an inter-company crossover, not a company-wide crossover, as I used only Thing, Juggernaut, and the Hulk in my argument. If you mean Secret Wars, I know it is considered bull by many people, but it is still canonical, regardless of how terribly written it was. Dismissing a fact just because it does not suit your argument is not a viable tactic in a debate. Anyways, the argument before the one you just ridiculed was not based on a crossover. All you're doing is attacking my argument. If you want to win, you will eventually need to prove that Juggernaut is weak instead of just insulting my posts.


Crossover's are considered dubious evidence to say the least.

I have given two examples:

The mountain thing + the fact that him knocking over a Sky Scraper is his best feat.

His Victories are all explained by his durability.

+ Hercule s knocked out the Abomination with one punch. This is far more impressive than the incident with the Thing. Herc and Thor are pretty much physically equal. Their feats of strength are far more impressive than Juggernaut's.

Until Juggernaut proves he has the strength of these characters he is not as strong as them.

Innocent Until proven guilty as one might say. You say he might be that strong. I say he hasn't proved it.

Originally posted by yahman
Crossover's are considered dubious evidence to say the least.

I have given two examples:

The mountain thing + the fact that him knocking over a Sky Scraper is his best feat.

His Victories are all explained by his durability.

+ Hercule s knocked out the Abomination with one punch. This is far more impressive than the incident with the Thing. Herc and Thor are pretty much physically equal. Their feats of strength are far more impressive than Juggernaut's.

Until Juggernaut proves he has the strength of these characters he is not as strong as them.

Innocent Until proven guilty as one might say. You say he might be that strong. I say he hasn't proved it.
Dubious, yes. Completely false, no. Crying wolf over such a thing could elicit a response where I cry wolf on every low showing in strength Juggernaut has ever had.

You're saying that every single one of his victories can be explained by his durability? Every one? Sure, they might not be able to harm them, but if he was truly as weak as those examples show him as, he would not be able to harm them either. He'd be a meat puppet, knocked around but unable to be harmed.

Hercules and Thor aren't exactly physical equals, I would say. Thor needs the boost of Mjolnir to put him on the same level as Hercules.

He is innocent until proven guilty, yes. But, the lack of proof of his power does not means that he is immediately powerless. For example, you could say that TOAA is a weakling because he has displayed no feats showcasing his power. Sure, his place is above that of the Living Tribunal, but still, the importance of someone's position does not necessarily mean that they are immediately greater than their underlings.

Juggernaut is one of the strongest characters in the MU.

His bio says that his strength has a unknown limit. How many other characters bio says that?

Juggernaut is the f*cking man.

He has, by simply stalemating them in strength. What more can you ask for? Do you want him to magically find the midgard serpent? C'mon, don't be dumb.
Use your eyes, he's as strong if not stronger than anyone on earth.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
Dubious, yes. Completely false, no. Crying wolf over such a thing could elicit a response where I cry wolf on every low showing in strength Juggernaut has ever had.

You're saying that every single one of his victories can be explained by his durability? Every one? Sure, they might not be able to harm them, but if he was truly as weak as those examples show him as, he would not be able to harm them either. He'd be a meat puppet, knocked around but unable to be harmed.

Hercules and Thor aren't exactly physical equals, I would say. Thor needs the boost of Mjolnir to put him on the same level as Hercules.

He is innocent until proven guilty, yes. But, the lack of proof of his power does not means that he is immediately powerless. For example, you could say that TOAA is a weakling because he has displayed no feats showcasing his power. Sure, his place is above that of the Living Tribunal, but still, the importance of someone's position does not necessarily mean that they are immediately greater than their underlings.

Mann and you accused me of taking things out of context ????????

I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before someone used the example of a really powerful guy like L.T. not doing anything .... therefore he is not powerful, in there argument. Talk about scraping the barrel.

I never said that Juggernaut is a weakling !!!!!!!!!! (For some reason you think i have.) If you go back and look at my List, I have him above Ultimate Colossus, which means he can Lift thousands of tons. If Ultron, Thing, Ulik, Iron Man, Wonder Man and co, can hurt Thor (while being Level 6 characters) Juggernaut is really going to hurt him. Especially If Thor's (and Co's) attacks are doing nothing.

I just don't think he is as strong as Thor, Herc , Superman, Wonder Woman , Hulk and co. I think even Namor has done more to suggest he is stronger than Juggernaut. But he is not a weakling. As said before Ultron was owning Thor, and Juggernaut's strength and Durability are far superior to Ultron.

"Juggernaut has, it follows that Juggernaut is, at the very least, a high CL 100."

"Juggernaut has never shown that he is as strong as most of the other characters in this discussion."

Its actually a bit of both. He is in the same footing than the others high cl 100. But he isent stronger. Not in average anyway.

"Hercules and Thor aren't exactly physical equals, I would say. Thor needs the boost of Mjolnir to put him on the same level as Hercules."

They have stalemated strenghtwise without weapons, more than once. The reason why Herc gets the nod its because he always seemed to take on Hulk better with his bare hands than Thor did. And taking the fights less serious. Thats an example btw. Even if Thor -is- weaker its not in any way by much. A notch its a better take. My take at least.

"His bio says that his strength has a unknown limit. How many other characters bio says that"

If you go by handbooks?

Lets say Hercules did had that stated in his bio before.

Originally posted by yahman
Mann and you accused me of taking things out of context ????????

I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before someone used the example of a really powerful guy like L.T. not doing anything .... therefore he is not powerful, in there argument. Talk about scraping the barrel.

I never said that Juggernaut is a weakling !!!!!!!!!! (For some reason you think i have.) If you go back and look at my List, I have him above Ultimate Colossus, which means he can Lift thousands of tons. If Ultron, Thing, Ulik, Iron Man, Wonder Man and co, can hurt Thor (while being Level 6 characters) Juggernaut is really going to hurt him. Especially If Thor's (and Co's) attacks are doing nothing.

I just don't think he is as strong as Thor, Herc , Superman, Wonder Woman , Hulk and co. I think even Namor has done more to suggest he is stronger than Juggernaut. But he is not a weakling. As said before Ultron was owning Thor, and Juggernaut's strength and Durability are far superior to Ultron.
I accused you of taking things out of context because you keep on misquoting me. Also, would you please stop attacking my tactics and just argue?

Ultimate Colossus is not all that strong. He has many high-end showings, sure, but basically everyone on this list has greater feats than him. Also, Ultron and Iron Man possess amazing technology, Ulik is on par with Thor, and the Wonder Man that beat Thor also killed Count Nefaria, who is a routine teambuster. Thing has harmed Champion, and even though he got smacked down a few panels later, he hurt him. Thing is a terrible example to use in a case like this, considering how easily Juggernaut destroyed Thing, which means that Juggernaut is a match for Thor in basically every physical category.

Also, Juggernaut's durability could factor into this competition, depending on whether its deadlifting or benchpressing. Also, Ultron has demonstrated strength beyond Class 90 before. Using that as the standard for Ultron would be akin to using Korvac thawarting the Living Tribunal as the standard for either Korvac of LT.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
I accused you of taking things out of context because you keep on misquoting me. Also, would you please stop attacking my tactics and just argue?

Ultimate Colossus is not all that strong. He has many high-end showings, sure, but basically everyone on this list has greater feats than him. Also, Ultron and Iron Man possess amazing technology, Ulik is on par with Thor, and the Wonder Man that beat Thor also killed Count Nefaria, who is a routine teambuster. Thing has harmed Champion, and even though he got smacked down a few panels later, he hurt him. Thing is a terrible example to use in a case like this, considering how easily Juggernaut destroyed Thing, which means that Juggernaut is a match for Thor in basically every physical category.

Also, Juggernaut's durability could factor into this competition, depending on whether its deadlifting or benchpressing. Also, Ultron has demonstrated strength beyond Class 90 before. Using that as the standard for Ultron would be akin to using Korvac thawarting the Living Tribunal as the standard for either Korvac of LT.

Dude attacking people's debating skills, is what i do. It makes me feel better about myself. You should try it... you'll love it. Its hard to survive on this forum without doing it a little. Any way its been good debating with you. You might be a newbie, but your a knowledgeable guy (I sound like G.S. ) Any way its good to have you aboard. Don't take this the wrong way but i don't agree with you. But i have to be up at 5 in the morning, so I'm going to bed. Anyway until next time.

Originally posted by yahman
Dude attacking people's debating skills, is what i do. It makes me feel better about myself. You should try it... you'll love it. Its hard to survive on this forum without doing it a little. Any way its been good debating with you. You might be a newbie, but your a knowledgeable guy (I sound like G.S. ) Any way its good to have you aboard. Don't take this the wrong way but i don't agree with you. But i have to be up at 5 in the morning, so I'm going to bed. Anyway until next time.


Goodbye, and thanks for the compliment.

Originally posted by golem370
Thats because Thing ain't going to sit there and Brawl with Hulk he would get his butt handed to him he uses skill when he fights Hulk. Also this crap about Superman Lifting 100,000 tons Hulk has held a Moutain which I heard weight 150,000,000,000 tons

But isnt it funny how when Hulk first fought against Superman it took Hulk like 3 days of fighting to even reach Supes level, Its all a matter of what the writer feels like writing.

He had adrenaline when he held that mountain because his friends had no protection from the mountain they were knock out. I believe if he was in that situation There may be no one who could match his strength. Also I seen Spider-Man going in and Fight the Hulk but I never seem him go up to juggernaut and Fight him also In one book it shows Juggernaut ripping the side off a building to get to Spider-Man I seen Juggernaut toss a bus at Thor like nothing I also seen Juggernaut have a game of catch with Colossus and winning. I even seen him get grab by Colossus and then Juggernaut toss like a kid. I am not trying to be a smart a$$ but just thought these were pretty good feats of strength.

Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
I accused you of taking things out of context because you keep on misquoting me. Also, would you please stop attacking my tactics and just argue?

Ultimate Colossus is not all that strong. He has many high-end showings, sure, but basically everyone on this list has greater feats than him. Also, Ultron and Iron Man possess amazing technology, Ulik is on par with Thor, and the Wonder Man that beat Thor also killed Count Nefaria, who is a routine teambuster. Thing has harmed Champion, and even though he got smacked down a few panels later, he hurt him. Thing is a terrible example to use in a case like this, considering how easily Juggernaut destroyed Thing, which means that Juggernaut is a match for Thor in basically every physical category.

Also, Juggernaut's durability could factor into this competition, depending on whether its deadlifting or benchpressing. Also, Ultron has demonstrated strength beyond Class 90 before. Using that as the standard for Ultron would be akin to using Korvac thawarting the Living Tribunal as the standard for either Korvac of LT.
Ulik is Class 90.
On par with Thor my socks.
Ulik usually show his own against Thor cause he's a troll, trolls are a warrior race, brutals and ruthless, Thor usually doesn't goes all out on his enemies, just like Supes.
When Odin died against Surtur, Thor teleports to the troll realm to ask an oracle if Odin was still alive.
He K.O.ed Ulik in like 2/3 shots, showing that when's he's enraged or mad you shouldn't mess with him.
Juggy is a match for any hero on Marvel Earth, his strenght hasn't showed a limit, and his durability is the best there is, he is indestructible.

Originally posted by golem370
Thats because Thing ain't going to sit there and Brawl with Hulk he would get his butt handed to him he uses skill when he fights Hulk. Also this crap about Superman Lifting 100,000 tons Hulk has held a Moutain which I heard weight 150,000,000,000 tons Superman moves planets. Planets weigh more than Mountains.

The only planet he moved was when he was sundipped.

Hes not at regular power a planet mover.

Originally posted by olympian
The only planet he moved was when he was sundipped.

Hes not at regular power a planet mover. What about him and wonder woman pulling the moon?

that example doesnt get it better Juntai. Not only he had outside help (i think you are reffering to the one where he, ww, mm, and others moved the moon) like the moon itself isent a " planet ".

How about effortlessly snapping wonder womans arm?
WHo else?

Once elevated Superman's strength becomes near unlimited, read The Man of Steel mini series by Byrne.

"How about effortlessly snapping wonder womans arm?
WHo else?"

.........you need planet level strenght to do that?

"Once elevated Superman's strength becomes near unlimited, read The Man of Steel mini series by Byrne."

Not only its not in play anymore, Byrne Superman was the weakest version ever.

Originally posted by Juntai
Once elevated Superman's strength becomes near unlimited, read The Man of Steel mini series by Byrne.
Thor lifted a portion of the midgard serpent, which is said to has infinite weight.
Lifting a portion of infinite means your strenght is outstanding.

Originally posted by olympian
"How about effortlessly snapping wonder womans arm?
WHo else?"

.........you need planet level strenght to do that?

"Once elevated Superman's strength becomes near unlimited, read The Man of Steel mini series by Byrne."

Not only its not in play anymore, Byrne Superman was the weakest version ever. You're talking about the Superman reboot in The Man of Steel? It certainly is canon. It has the CURRENT DCU logo on it's trade. Birthright is the one that's not canon.

"Thor lifted a portion of the midgard serpent, which is said to has infinite weight.
Lifting a portion of infinite means your strenght is outstanding"

Wich means he could snap Wonder Woman`s wrist or arm too

"You're talking about the Superman reboot in The Man of Steel? It certainly is canon. It has the CURRENT DCU logo on it's trade. Birthright is the one that's not canon."

Its the other way around. Birthright its the reboot of that one. Nowadays you practically have nothing of John Byrnes reboot at playing for Superman.

And every trade gets the current logo of the company is using.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Thor lifted a portion of the midgard serpent, which is said to has infinite weight.
Lifting a portion of infinite means your strenght is outstanding. He can't do that in the normal Universe.

"He can't do that in the normal Universe."

He lifted the Serpent in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

You still didnt explained how snapping Wnder Womans arm or wrist its an indication of planet level of strenght.

Originally posted by olympian
"He can't do that in the normal Universe."

He lifted the Serpent in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

You still didnt explained how snapping Wnder Womans arm or wrist its an indication of planet level of strenght.
I'm talking about on Earth or whatever, he doesn't lift like that.

Originally posted by olympian
"He can't do that in the normal Universe."

He lifted the Serpent in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

You still didnt explained how snapping Wnder Womans arm or wrist its an indication of planet level of strenght.
Because no one else has/can do it?

Originally posted by Juntai
He can't do that in the normal Universe.
He has done it while he was on the Marvel Earth.
Hulk can't overcome the anti matter attraction, but he was able to do it, so?

Btw, I think JLA/Avengers has been added as canon, the egg that appears at the end of the series, is in DCU. In the recent JLA Syndicate series. It's never existed in the DCU before this, that I know of. So it's at least Canon for DC, meaning Superman is still the strongest in 11 worlds.

"I'm talking about on Earth or whatever, he doesn't lift like that."

No hero does. Superman on earth struggles to lift planes sometimes. Planetary feats are outside of earth usually.

The thor with the serpent can be outside or on earth considering, the Serpent encircles the planet.

"Because no one else has/can do it?"

And how is that an indication one would need -planetary strenght level- to do that.

Considering Superman its alot more durable and Captain Marvel made him bleed and knock him out with normal punches before, does that means he has strenght to juggle planets now.

Originally posted by olympian
"I'm talking about on Earth or whatever, he doesn't lift like that."

No hero does. Superman on earth struggles to lift planes sometimes. Planetary feats are outside of earth usually.

"Because no one else has/can do it?"

And how is that an indication one would need -planetary strenght level- to do that.

Considering Superman its alot more durable and Captain Marvel made him bleed and knock him out with normal punches before, does that means he has strenght to juggle planets now. Quit trying to downtalk the feat, it's obvious he's kept his strength since his sundip in OWAW, or have you even been reading Superman at all? Do you ever step outside of the MU? Anyways, if Thor is unlimmited strength and can lift a piece of infinite, he still got stopped mid-swing by Superman and punched out.

"Quit trying to downtalk the feat, it's obvious he's kept his strength since his sundip in OWAW, or have you even been reading Superman at all? Do you ever step outside of the MU"

Getting desperate like that wont get you anywher.

Unless you back up the dumb notion one needs to juggle planets to break an arm of Wonder Woman who is in average the high top tier hero with lower durability.

You also didnt answered. Kal got it alot worse from Captain Marvel. According to you, does Marvel have the strenght to juggle planets?

And no. He didnt kept his strenght since the sundip. When you say that you show already you dont read his title.

A sundip bub its a power boost. Wich means on average he doesnt have that power.

Originally posted by olympian
"Quit trying to downtalk the feat, it's obvious he's kept his strength since his sundip in OWAW, or have you even been reading Superman at all? Do you ever step outside of the MU"

Getting desperate like that wont get you anywher.

Unless you back up the dumb notion one needs to juggle planets to break an arm of Wonder Woman who is in average the high top tier hero with lower durability.

You also didnt answered. Kal got it alot worse from Captain Marvel. According to you, does Marvel have the strenght to juggle planets?

And no. He didnt kept his strenght since the sundip. When you say that you show already you dont read his title.

A sundip bub its a power boost. Wich means on average he doesnt have that power. Explain all his massive power upgrades then? It was a perminant boost. He didn't keep all of it, but he's massively more powerful.

"Explain all his massive power upgrades then? It was a perminant boost. He didn't keep all of it, but he's massively more powerful."

His power ups wer from the weakest version ever ( Byrne) until today where hes more powerful to do over the top feats and compete with other high heroes. Byrne high strenght feats wer mountains. Todays Superman its more.

"It was a perminant boost. He didn't keep all of it, but he's massively more powerful."

So its average its the same of OWAW Superman now?

Does that means that in JlA/Avengers Thor had that Superman in the ropes without using his godly powers?

Works for me.

When Jurgens took over Thor, his strenngth was diminished greatly untill he became King Thor.

Superman's power has gradually been risisng since the Byrne era.

The Thor that fought Superman during the Crossover shouldn't have had a chance against him.

But it did.

Either Thor was holding his strenght all the time when Jurgens was writting him or.......

Superman aint all that, considering the troubles he had

Originally posted by olympian
But it did.

Either Thor was holding his strenght all the time when Jurgens was writting him or.......

Superman aint all that, considering the troubles he had

Maybe Marvel executives couldn't stand to see a can of Whupp ass opened up on their characters. So it was agreed to diminish the D.C. strength levels.

It explains the W.W vs Herc match

+ Why all those Level 6 characters where able to hurt Supes in the end.

Mortal Hercules restrained her in the end with a strenght plus skill combo.

Even as mortal he has been written lately as being close to immortal levels, so the strenght its enought to restrained her.

Her strenght wasent and didnt needed to be diminished.

Rumors, Yahman, all rumors!

The Hulk has greater feats of strength than all of these combined. If it's a contest of who can lift the most, Hulk takes it.

Originally posted by olympian
Mortal Hercules restrained her in the end with a strenght plus skill combo.

Even as mortal he has been written lately as being close to immortal levels, so the strenght its enought to restrained her.

Her strenght wasent and didnt needed to be diminished.

Rumors, Yahman, all rumors!



If Superman was diminished its only fair that they diminish allll the D.C. characters. After all we can't have W.W. stronger than Supes can we. Not Rumours all logic

"The Hulk has greater feats of strength than all of these combined"

So hes stronger than all of those at the same time now. Funny how he never showed it.

"If Superman was diminished its only fair that they diminish allll the D.C. characters"

Now now. We dont know if he was or not. Thor didnt had exactly low showings in Jurgens title. More like it, he wrote some of his opponents as stronger again. And no im not talking about Mangog.

Both wer portraited rougly equal as in average.

Wonder Woman wasent portraited as stronger than Superman either, its mooth. Hercules even he managed to pull a stalemate was Mortal. Therefore below them.

Originally posted by olympian
"The Hulk has greater feats of strength than all of these combined"

So hes stronger than all of those at the same time now. Funny how he never showed it.

"If Superman was diminished its only fair that they diminish allll the D.C. characters"

Now now. We dont know if he was or not. Thor didnt had exactly low showings in Jurgens title. More like it, he wrote some of his opponents as stronger again. And no im not talking about Mangog.

Both wer portraited rougly equal as in average.

Wonder Woman wasent portraited as stronger than Superman either, its mooth. Hercules even he managed to pull a stalemate was Mortal. Therefore below them.

Oh yeah Like when he could barely Lift a building, When he got battered by a Sea Snake, When he was knocked out by a punch that could barely shatter a crystal. All really impressive showings

Jurgens Thor sucked. Barely Class 100 at best.

King Thor = Different Matter.

Originally posted by olympian
"The Hulk has greater feats of strength than all of these combined"


Matter-antimatter attraction. Forgetful, are we?

Hulk has lesser feats that are greater than anything any of these guys have done.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Ulik is Class 90.
On par with Thor my socks.
Ulik usually show his own against Thor cause he's a troll, trolls are a warrior race, brutals and ruthless, Thor usually doesn't goes all out on his enemies, just like Supes.
When Odin died against Surtur, Thor teleports to the troll realm to ask an oracle if Odin was still alive.
He K.O.ed Ulik in like 2/3 shots, showing that when's he's enraged or mad you shouldn't mess with him.
Juggy is a match for any hero on Marvel Earth, his strenght hasn't showed a limit, and his durability is the best there is, he is indestructible.
I didn't say he was an equal to Thor in strength, I merely said he was on par with him. Also, I don't really see why you're disagreeing with me, seeing as that's what I said about Juggernaut.

Invincible should be somewhere on the list, imo.

Who says Drax has the Power Gem here? it was never stated in opening post.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Matter-antimatter attraction. Forgetful, are we?

Hulk has lesser feats that are greater than anything any of these guys have done.

Matter-antimatter attraction isn't very powerful....

Antimatter can be held still with a relatively weak electromagnetic field.

Originally posted by Soljer
Matter-antimatter attraction isn't very powerful....

Antimatter can be held still with a relatively weak electromagnetic field. Depends how much matter/anti-matter you have.

But it's molecule to molecule reaction is about as exciting as Eeyore ..

Originally posted by Galan007
Depends how much matter/anti-matter you have.

But it's molecule to molecule reaction is about as exciting as Eeyore ..

Reaction, yes.

Attraction, no.

Originally posted by Soljer
Reaction, yes.

Attraction, no. Meaning matter&anti-matter want to combine/cancel each other out - but the energy released when this occurs, is not overly impressive?

Originally posted by Galan007
Meaning matter&anti-matter want to combine/cancel each other out - but the energy released when this occurs, is not overly impressive?

Meaning that the force between matter and anti-matter attraction is the same as ordinary gravitational attraction.

I.E. negligible for most bodies.

The energy from the resulting reaction is quite impressive.

Apparently the Hulk has limits to his strength you know?I am sure he was angry when the Juggernaut was kicking the crap out of him so many times but did he become more powerful?Juggernaut always says he can't be stop but he can...alot of characters shout stupid things out that arent true.

Superman is atleast top 2, he can lift 100,000 tons, the Hulk would have to be Super enraged to reach that, and the others on the list just cant come near it, and whatever Supes can lift so can Manhunter, so they tie. Lobo is right under Supes, and Captain Marvel if not splitting his power or pulling his strenght(which he is known for doing) can lift as much as lobo. from there on who knows


i dont know about drax so i cant say anything on him, but the resgt cant keep up a Raged hulk is sstill only at bout 400tons, Superboy can outlift that(if you can count the tactile), Juggs is at about 300ton range maybe farther but not too far...and the rest well who cares? they lose.

Where did you see a really angry Hulk could lift 400 and Juggernaut could only life 300 tons?The last time i checked there class was 100 plus tons and the upper limit to their strength was unknown.Maybe you are just another superman fan boy or you just lack the knowledge of most other characters.Based on logic and what is shown the Juggernaut would be one of the top characters and not because i like him.Marvel states that the Juggernaut can't tire right while every character you name can get tired..it might take a while but eventually they will.Every character you named can break their bones trying to lift something beyond their ability while the Juggernaut can't break his bone.

Originally posted by Soljer
The energy from the resulting reaction is quite impressive. Sadly, it's not as impressive as some scientists thought it would be.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Apparently the Hulk has limits to his strength you know?I am sure he was angry when the Juggernaut was kicking the crap out of him so many times but did he become more powerful?Juggernaut always says he can't be stop but he can...alot of characters shout stupid things out that arent true.

Superman is atleast top 2, he can lift 100,000 tons, the Hulk would have to be Super enraged to reach that, and the others on the list just cant come near it, and whatever Supes can lift so can Manhunter, so they tie. Lobo is right under Supes, and Captain Marvel if not splitting his power or pulling his strenght(which he is known for doing) can lift as much as lobo. from there on who knows


i dont know about drax so i cant say anything on him, but the resgt cant keep up a Raged hulk is sstill only at bout 400tons, Superboy can outlift that(if you can count the tactile), Juggs is at about 300ton range maybe farther but not too far...and the rest well who cares? they lose.

Where did you see a really angry Hulk could lift 400 and Juggernaut could only life 300 tons?The last time i checked there class was 100 plus tons and the upper limit to their strength was unknown.Maybe you are just another superman fan boy or you just lack the knowledge of most other characters.Based on logic and what is shown the Juggernaut would be one of the top characters and not because i like him.Marvel states that the Juggernaut can't tire right while every character you name can get tired..it might take a while but eventually they will.Every character you named can break their bones trying to lift something beyond their ability while the Juggernaut can't break his bone. 150 billion is a little bigger than 100 thousand, hulk always for the win in a dead lift compitition.

Originally posted by Galan007
Sadly, it's not as impressive as some scientists thought it would be.

Hm? Explain.

I dunno how you get much more impressive than direct conversion to energy...

Originally posted by Soljer
Hm? Explain.

I dunno how you get much more impressive than direct conversion to energy... More specifically, some were expecting more energy output secondary to the conversion, than what's been seen so far.

150 billion is a little bigger than 100 thousand, hulk always for the win in a dead lift compitition

Thats nice but Marvel says Juggernaut's strength rivals the Hulks and they are the 2 most physically powerful beings on Marvels earth and as i said the Hulk can tire and if he can break his bones the Juggernaut can't tire or break his bones so he wins.

Originally posted by big juggy man
150 billion is a little bigger than 100 thousand, hulk always for the win in a dead lift compitition

Thats nice but Marvel says Juggernaut's strength rivals the Hulks and they are the 2 most physically powerful beings on Marvels earth and as i said the Hulk can tire and if he can break his bones the Juggernaut can't tire or break his bones so he wins. king hulk shattered that history when he stated "the past is dead", and he is dead on.

Being that Cyttorak is exceedingly arrogant. I see him feeding Juggernaut all the power he needs to sweep this tournament.

Originally posted by Evolve
all on bloodlust, and pumped:

Thor
Hercules
Raged Hulk
Abomination
Superman
Captain Marvel
Wonder Woman
Namor :in water:
Juggernaut
Titanus
Lobo
Drax
Spike Thing
Ultimate Collosus

Superman/Captain Marvel/Lobo/Drax
Wonder Woman/Thor/Namor/Hulk
Juggernaut/Abomination