God cant be real because....

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Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?

debbiejo
1. Because everyones god is different.

2. Because that's not what god is.

3. Because that is not what god is about.

Because this is a god made in mans image.....nothing more....Believers don't yet realize this....

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?


The god you are talking about is not real. However, God is real. God is not, concerned with our lives, needing anything, taking sides, loving or hateful. We do not understand the ways of God. We are insignificant and just a small aspect of God. We are alive and therefore the universe is alive. Everything, all together, is a living being that I call God, for lack of a better word.

RedAlertv2
We are responsible for our own actions. Whether God is real or not, it is our fault there are wars/terrorism.

WhiteSnowAngel
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?

It's called free will. God has no control over that since he gave us free will. For the innocent that died, they go straight to heaven.

xmarksthespot
When exactly does god give humankind free will? In the half of The Bible that says do as I say or go to hell, or the other half of The Bible that says do as I say or go to hell?

RedAlertv2
Ultimately, we still have free will, as in we can choose to sin, or choose not to.

Leo.M
GOD is just something that helps idiots sleep better at night

finti
our faults due to politics and religion

debbiejo
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
When exactly does god give humankind free will? In the half of The Bible that says do as I say or go to hell, or the other half of The Bible that says do as I say or go to hell?

Yeah...we all have free will....It's part of the creative process which we are all part of, not the Bible kind though....That was mans interference.

Evil Dead
None of the reasons you mention Imagawa666 have any validity what so ever............

You base your comments on traits man has imposed on God........the defenition of god that man has created. This has nothing to do with your original statement that god can not exist. If a god does exist......just because it doesn't fit the description Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. have imposed on it does not make it any less in existence. For all we know, god could be some evil, vengeful mother ****er ...............and everything you just listed would actually help support god's existence, not detract from it as was your intention.

debbiejo
Kinda like Jack Nicholson......

Evil Dead
that is not free will...........as god gives you a punishment, a cost if you do not do as his commandments state. If something has a cost.......it can not be free by definition.

Pyropsycho
free will:
The power of the human will to choose without restraint.

Evil will be punished and good rewarded. These are merely consequences. They do not forcibly change a persons will they merely either encourage or discourage that will

Do not change the definition of free to a different context. You speak free as it is: without cost. Free will refers to the meaning unrestricted.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The god you are talking about is not real. However, God is real. God is not, concerned with our lives, needing anything, taking sides, loving or hateful. We do not understand the ways of God. We are insignificant and just a small aspect of God. We are alive and therefore the universe is alive. Everything, all together, is a living being that I call God, for lack of a better word.

thumbsup

It is man's natural egocentrical nature to believe there is a God who sees and cares about every single thing they do, and thus is going to award them for it.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
thumbsup

It is man's natural egocentrical nature to believe there is a God who sees and cares about every single thing they do, and thus is going to award them for it.
Yep.

Imagawa666
How about I read the facts before bitching about something that has no proof that it exists. If god appears before us then ill be satisfied. Gods and goddesses were created by primitive human beings so they had something to follow, to believe in, a higher power who they felt would grant favors in return for worship. An motivater invented by priests and shamens. Somethin to coerce people into doing things and something for people to work for in terms of the afterlife etc. Its a form of control.

Evil Dead
I agree with you whole heartedly...........it is a fable for the purpose of control.............I however must disagree with you using the term "fact" as nothing of the like has been proven fact.

Evil Dead
consequences are a form of restraint..............

debbiejo
Yes they are...Like the reaping what you sow......We ARE supposed to be learning from these things...

FeceMan
Originally posted by Leo.M
GOD is just something that helps idiots sleep better at night
With that definition, you surely are the most pious I have encountered.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by FeceMan
With that definition, you surely are the most pious I have encountered.

I don't think he will get it, but I did. laughing

Do you think he will ask what flavor? laughing

Leo.M
god doesn't exist because this womens shirt says " Thank GOD I'm not ugly"

debbiejo
God does exist because of this womens shirt... wink laughing out loud ....And wonderful recliner chairs......

Shakyamunison
She looks ugly to me?

Leo.M
OK eer

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Leo.M
OK eer
Did you look close at the photo?

Leo.M
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Did you look close at the photo?

i was talking to debbiejo

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Leo.M
i was talking to debbiejo


*** **** *** **** ** **** you. laughing

Leo.M
What the F***

I don't get debbiejo...do you?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Leo.M
What the F***

I don't get debbiejo...do you?

When it comes to debbiejo, I never worry about getting it. Sometimes she goes a little off the edge even for me, but I just smile .

In other words, no. laughing

debbiejo
laughing out loud blink

I'm so misunderstood....I've been this way all my life and no one has figured out how to fix me......

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
laughing out loud blink

I'm so misunderstood....I've been this way all my life and no one has figured out how to fix me......

Maybe it's because every time someone gets close enough to fix you another chicken dies.

mr.smiley
Originally posted by Imagawa666
How about I read the facts before bitching about something that has no proof that it exists. If god appears before us then ill be satisfied. Gods and goddesses were created by primitive human beings so they had something to follow, to believe in, a higher power who they felt would grant favors in return for worship. An motivater invented by priests and shamens. Somethin to coerce people into doing things and something for people to work for in terms of the afterlife etc. Its a form of control.


To say Gods where created by primitive man is absured.Especialy when it came to the Pagans.Scientificly they were very advanced and one Pagan even measured the circumference of earth almost perfectly.Most their teachings where withheld by the church however when Christianity came into power.For some people religon is looked at as a form of control,but it goes a lot deeper then how most people see.Most ancient priest and such understood the experince of worshipping a God or Goddess was deeper understaning of yourself.The english word person, comes from a Greek word which means mask.
Monistic Polytheism is the belife that their is one supreme God or energy but is represented in different forms.Now relate this to people.We are all made up of different personalties,but our awareness (or God like mind) is essentialy the same.We are all connected by that same awareness whether we are aware of it or not.most stories of Gods and saviours are echoes of our own nature which has been grossly destorted by a literlist view of spiritualanity.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by mr.smiley
To say Gods where created by primitive man is absured.Especialy when it came to the Pagans.Scientificly they were very advanced and one Pagan even measured the circumference of earth almost perfectly.Most their teachings where withheld by the church however when Christianity came into power.For some people religon is looked at as a form of control,but it goes a lot deeper then how most people see.Most ancient priest and such understood the experince of worshipping a God or Goddess was deeper understaning of yourself.The english word person, comes from a Greek word which means mask.
Monistic Polytheism is the belife that their is one supreme God or energy but is represented in different forms.Now relate this to people.We are all made up of different personalties,but our awareness (or God like mind) is essentialy the same.We are all connected by that same awareness whether we are aware of it or not.most stories of Gods and saviours are echoes of our own nature which has been grossly destorted by a literlist view of spiritualanity.


Like a breath of fresh air...

Well put!!! Happy Dance

mr.smiley
wink

debbiejo
Good job Mr. smiley...

Imagawa666
Excuse me but paganism is virtually extinct because of christianitys false beliefs. And I dont have a problem with pagens or buddhist or seeks. Just Islam and Christianity because they use their stupid beliefs as an excuse to hurt people. Hopefuylly ther is an anti christ but I take happiness in knowing that God cant stophim. Finally no more religion.

Evil Dead
everybody who intentionally hurts someone is doing so because of their beliefs.

e.g. a man catches his wife in bed with another man. He harms the other man based on his belief that his wife should be loyal to him.

the problem with the two religions you've mentioned is the fact that they are so large........have so many members. Having so many members means that only a small percentage of that religion's followers can cause great harm to a great many people......and they have. For every Christian or Muslim who has caused harm to others in the name of their god there are many who have not.

Imagawa666
I cant syand them. they still cause alot of harm. In some countries that use islamic laws they stone children to death and flog them. Yes very nice. Im sure allah told them to do that. Im fed up of these goverments that are religious and of Cults which cause more harm than good. They are all liars who use something that isnt real as an excuse to do something to the rest of us. The romans had the right idea when they crucified a certain troublemaker who was trying to incite insurection. He proclimed himself King. Same if Tony blair proclaimed himself King. Hed be charged with treason. Hed be inciting insurection.

EsteemedLeader
god cant be real because...well, simply put, he isnt...

Imagawa666
Finally a smart answer

mr.smiley
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Excuse me but paganism is virtually extinct because of christianitys false beliefs. And I dont have a problem with pagens or buddhist or seeks. Just Islam and Christianity because they use their stupid beliefs as an excuse to hurt people. Hopefuylly ther is an anti christ but I take happiness in knowing that God cant stophim. Finally no more religion.


Paganism is alive and well.We know it's followers as Catholic today.

mr.smiley
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
god cant be real because...well, simply put, he isnt...

If your definiton of God is a supreme being with ridiculous laws,I agree with you.Other wise I have to disagree.

Clone-Commander
Originally posted by WhiteSnowAngel
It's called free will. God has no control over that since he gave us free will. For the innocent that died, they go straight to heaven.


Besides, it wasnt the terrorists who bombed the world trade center. It was bush who ordered it. He had ordered a lot of the important people out of the building that day he told them something was going to happen. Something did happen. A plane flew into teh world trade center. He did it so he could declare war on Iraq and Iraq is a crutuial point to europe. He, as we speak is invading the whole world without declaring war. All he did was when the people boarded the planes, as they were out of view from all directions, had gas in the air ventilation systems. It knocked the people out and he took them to The Lord knows where, and made a switcheroo. He had another plane which looked just like the ones that had the people in it except these were radio controlled. He then flew them into the world trade centers and in both of them they had Iraqian IDs and one of them was found in the wreckage. They blamed the terrorists but the person whose ID it was they found in Iraq and some of us was just like "huh? Whats going on here?" We never really found out until I brought this to you. Now, buildings that were near the wtcs (world trade centers) got hit with debris and caught on fire, but didnt collapse. Now, building seven, the farthest building away from the wtcs "caught on fire and collapsed". Now, those who were close didnt collapse when caught on fire so why should this? Building who had been on fire for days never collapsed. The answer: It was 'pulled'. Now, I will tell you what 'pull' is. When demolition experts are ready for demolition and nobody is in the area, they, 'pull it' as they say. As all radio stations were off during the blast, nobody heard it, but a fireman who had his phone on heard someone say, "Okay, now pull it." The building was demolished, and bush just said it was the fire that did it. But it was demolished as we know know. Why, you ask? Because buildoing seven held secret CIA and FBI files on most of the floors. Bush didnt want anybody knowing about his plan on the wtcs so he "secretly" demolished it in from of everyones eyes. He now could do whatever it took to conquer the world. If you have any questions, PM me, as I am sleepy and need some rest. Goodnight. And may god be with you all.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Clone-Commander
Besides, it wasnt the terrorists who bombed the world trade center. It was bush who ordered it. He had ordered a lot of the important people out of the building that day he told them something was going to happen. Something did happen. A plane flew into teh world trade center. He did it so he could declare war on Iraq and Iraq is a crutuial point to europe. He, as we speak is invading the whole world without declaring war. All he did was when the people boarded the planes, as they were out of view from all directions, had gas in the air ventilation systems. It knocked the people out and he took them to The Lord knows where, and made a switcheroo. He had another plane which looked just like the ones that had the people in it except these were radio controlled. He then flew them into the world trade centers and in both of them they had Iraqian IDs and one of them was found in the wreckage. They blamed the terrorists but the person whose ID it was they found in Iraq and some of us was just like "huh? Whats going on here?" We never really found out until I brought this to you. Now, buildings that were near the wtcs (world trade centers) got hit with debris and caught on fire, but didnt collapse. Now, building seven, the farthest building away from the wtcs "caught on fire and collapsed". Now, those who were close didnt collapse when caught on fire so why should this? Building who had been on fire for days never collapsed. The answer: It was 'pulled'. Now, I will tell you what 'pull' is. When demolition experts are ready for demolition and nobody is in the area, they, 'pull it' as they say. As all radio stations were off during the blast, nobody heard it, but a fireman who had his phone on heard someone say, "Okay, now pull it." The building was demolished, and bush just said it was the fire that did it. But it was demolished as we know know. Why, you ask? Because buildoing seven held secret CIA and FBI files on most of the floors. Bush didnt want anybody knowing about his plan on the wtcs so he "secretly" demolished it in from of everyones eyes. He now could do whatever it took to conquer the world. If you have any questions, PM me, as I am sleepy and need some rest. Goodnight. And may god be with you all.

laughing

Evil Dead
Indeed............that's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Imagawa666
Originally posted by Clone-Commander
Besides, it wasnt the terrorists who bombed the world trade center. It was bush who ordered it. He had ordered a lot of the important people out of the building that day he told them something was going to happen. Something did happen. A plane flew into teh world trade center. He did it so he could declare war on Iraq and Iraq is a crutuial point to europe. He, as we speak is invading the whole world without declaring war. All he did was when the people boarded the planes, as they were out of view from all directions, had gas in the air ventilation systems. It knocked the people out and he took them to The Lord knows where, and made a switcheroo. He had another plane which looked just like the ones that had the people in it except these were radio controlled. He then flew them into the world trade centers and in both of them they had Iraqian IDs and one of them was found in the wreckage. They blamed the terrorists but the person whose ID it was they found in Iraq and some of us was just like "huh? Whats going on here?" We never really found out until I brought this to you. Now, buildings that were near the wtcs (world trade centers) got hit with debris and caught on fire, but didnt collapse. Now, building seven, the farthest building away from the wtcs "caught on fire and collapsed". Now, those who were close didnt collapse when caught on fire so why should this? Building who had been on fire for days never collapsed. The answer: It was 'pulled'. Now, I will tell you what 'pull' is. When demolition experts are ready for demolition and nobody is in the area, they, 'pull it' as they say. As all radio stations were off during the blast, nobody heard it, but a fireman who had his phone on heard someone say, "Okay, now pull it." The building was demolished, and bush just said it was the fire that did it. But it was demolished as we know know. Why, you ask? Because buildoing seven held secret CIA and FBI files on most of the floors. Bush didnt want anybody knowing about his plan on the wtcs so he "secretly" demolished it in from of everyones eyes. He now could do whatever it took to conquer the world. If you have any questions, PM me, as I am sleepy and need some rest. Goodnight. And may god be with you all.


You sick person. How dare you even try and say that.....

Wonderer
'cause nothing is real...what is real anyway....how do we define real...what we believe in?...then real means nothing and something all at once!

debbiejo
Originally posted by Wonderer
'cause nothing is real...what is real anyway....how do we define real...what we believe in?...then real means nothing and something all at once!

Whoooo....you should go and talk to us in the Philosophy Forum....You'd fit right in...

And true....It really doesn't matter what you believe...Believing in something doesn't make it real...

Like if I say the sky is Blue, and you say its green...doesn't really matter if the sky is really orange.

Evil Dead
bah........we all know it's black.......




the blue is merely light reflecting off our atmosphere.........wink

Imagawa666
Actually its the sea reflecting off the sky

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Actually its the sea reflecting off the sky

laughing no!, but funny.

ED is right. On Mars the sky is yellow and the sunset is blue, because of the carbon dioxide is the atmosphere.

Clone-Commander
Besides, listen how they say about stuff like evolution. It cant have happened anyways because they say like bacteria formed together made thi and then made that. Well, where did the bacteria coem from? Where did teh stuff that made the bacteria come from? Where did the stuff that made the stuff that made tha bacteria come from? It all adds up to one person. God. If you dont believe in him, fine, your choice. But remember, if there is no god and you are right you just dissapear from history, but if there is and you didnt believe, then you are going to have a fun time dancing with the devil on fire. Good luck people. You are gonna need it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Clone-Commander
Besides, listen how they say about stuff like evolution. It cant have happened anyways because they say like bacteria formed together made thi and then made that. Well, where did the bacteria coem from? Where did teh stuff that made the bacteria come from? Where did the stuff that made the stuff that made tha bacteria come from? It all adds up to one person. God. If you dont believe in him, fine, your choice. But remember, if there is no god and you are right you just dissapear from history, but if there is and you didnt believe, then you are going to have a fun time dancing with the devil on fire. Good luck people. You are gonna need it.

You have a common misunderstanding. Bacteria is a modern life form, it maybe like the type that lived 3 billion years ago, but it's not. Everything today is modern and has changed over time. Dogs, we have all kinds of dogs, but in the wild there is only a few types of dogs. So how did we get all of these little dogs, big dogs and funny looking dogs? We made them from the potential that dogs have to change.

finti
who ever said dancing with the devil is gonna be a bad thing.
Through christian logic even the devil can get redemption and be saved so...............

Imagawa666
That clone commander guy says some very stupid things....

debbiejo
Originally posted by Clone-Commander
then you are going to have a fun time dancing with the devil on fire. Good luck people. You are gonna need it.

band


devil ....... angel

OH....Such a good dancer....

Evil Dead
I bet the devil throws one hell of a party.........


you know.......if there is a god......and it's the Christian god.......I pray to him to send me to hell. Think about it...........would you really want to spend enternity with a bunch of Christians? I can barely stand to see some of their posts on here........filled with hypocrisy and idiotic logic. Imagine being surrounded by these same people for all eternity without the option of closing your browser window. It would be hell to me.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Evil Dead
I bet the devil throws one hell of a party.........


you know.......if there is a god......and it's the Christian god.......I pray to him to send me to hell. .

NO! They won't let you out.....The gates will be closed....No keys....That would be your hell....you'd have to join the choir too...............

Evil Dead
hmmmm...........

so......a line of priests want to line up and have their way with me.......

is this heaven or hell? Priests go to heaven.....they can molest and buttrape little boys their whole life and still get in to heaven as long as they say, "Jesus, I'm sorry....please forgive me" before they die. Seems like hell to me...........but Christian logic would make it heaven........

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Evil Dead
hmmmm...........

so......a line of priests want to line up and have their way with me.......

is this heaven or hell? Priests go to heaven.....they can molest and buttrape little boys their whole life and still get in to heaven as long as they say, "Jesus, I'm sorry....please forgive me" before they die. Seems like hell to me...........but Christian logic would make it heaven........

Yes, I think you are right. They can be as bad as they want and not have to face the consequences.

finti
guess thats why they are called hypocrites

debbiejo
Rather be a heretic then a hypocrite....

finti
indeed

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Evil Dead
I bet the devil throws one hell of a party.........


you know.......if there is a god......and it's the Christian god.......I pray to him to send me to hell. Think about it...........would you really want to spend enternity with a bunch of Christians? I can barely stand to see some of their posts on here........filled with hypocrisy and idiotic logic. Imagine being surrounded by these same people for all eternity without the option of closing your browser window. It would be hell to me.

Christian God? Whats one of those?

If you revise your history, you might be able to see that Christian God = Jewish God.

Christians took a God from Jews, and then Muslims took the same god from both Jews and Christians.

Every description and characteristic of 'Christian God'' is taken from Jews. They havent even bothered modifying anything. Christians worship Jewish God as do Muslims.

debbiejo
Jews don't except Jesus though...

lil bitchiness
So?

Christians have the old testament. The old testament is basically Torah.

Creation of earth, heaven, hell, devil, 10 comandments, Noah, great floding, god killiong peole who were bad are all part of Judaism, as they are all in old testament.

Christianity should have been called - Jesusism, because the new testament has nothing to do with earth creation or flods, its to do with ''What Jesus did''

Jesusism.

debbiejo
Originally posted by lil bitchiness


Your right!....They claimed the whole Bible as their own...When infact is is Jewish....Only difference is the Jesus factor which was edited in later on.....Most Christians look down on Jews because they won't except Jesus....And Many Jews realize that Jesus was just another name for previous deity myths going on at that time period....

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by debbiejo
Your right!....They claimed the whole Bible as their own...When infact is is Jewish....Only difference is the Jesus factor which was edited in later on.....Most Christians look down on Jews because they won't except Jesus....And Many Jews realize that Jesus was just another name for previous deity myths going on at that time period....


I had no idea about Jesus being another name for previous myth deities. How interesting. You learn sometrhing new every day big grin

debbiejo
He's a conglomerate of many deities.....If you look at the story of his life, his miracles....they mimic many older myths....The Jews knew that...Not sure if many do today....don't know any Jewish people.

finti
just the OT that is jewish

Imagawa666
The jewish dont believe that Jesus has come to the earth yet. More babling....

Darth Nauj
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?
good point

Shakyamunison
There is more than one way to look at God.

debbiejo
You can't see god.....It's INVISIBLE............

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
You can't see god.....It's INVISIBLE............

I see God all the time. You can't see god, he is imaginary. Did you see the difference? God and god.

debbiejo
You need to go to the vending machine....you're brains not working right.......j/k

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
You need to go to the vending machine....you're brains not working right.......j/k

I live in God, I breath God I even pee God. laughing

Imagawa666
Of course hes imaginary. Hes not real thats why

finti
sure the imaginary gods a he

debbiejo
I thought I was special.................cry

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
I thought I was special.................cry

You are special, they even have a special bus for you... laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing laughing

finti
yeah the magical bus

Leo.M
Originally posted by Leo.M
god doesn't exist because this womens shirt says " Thank GOD I'm not ugly"

I still say it's cuz of this laughing

Leo.M
sorry the pic gone

Leo.M
god doesn't exist because this womens shirt says " Thank GOD I'm not ugly"

i found it

finti
hmmm right on she has nothing to thank gods for

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
yeah the magical bus

Full of magic????...What color is it???....I'll try to find it. confused

finti
magical bus is rainbow colored

debbiejo
Whooooooooooooo......rainbow.......let me follow it.....such pretty colors.....Are there other special people there?

finti
loads of special people, when I come to think of it its only special people

debbiejo
Is that why you have a ticket toooo???? laughing out loud blink

Spelljammer
1 and 2 are both man's flaws, not God's. God cannot be heald responsible for man's stupidity, granteed with freedom to choose comes the option of doing what's wrong. Which mankind does ALOT..

Number 3 is putting too much emphasis on God being abliged to prove Himself to you or anybody else. He's not some dancing bear. I can see how you greive over your grandfather, but as if we all don't have problems and you don't see us blaming God for them. I had a dream about talking to God, He explained to me how things work, why things work, and how they will continue to work. In all the glory and cosmology, about the simplest most gratifying response I can give you is to accept in this life that well.. shit happens..

finti
according to the bible who gave man the choice to sin, and who created the one tempting man to sin?

how do you know if the biblical god aint a dancing bear?

how can one blame something on something he/she dont believe exist

Leo.M
Originally posted by debbiejo
Is that why you have a ticket toooo???? laughing out loud blink

hysterical

BlackC@t
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
thumbsup

It is man's natural egocentrical nature to believe there is a God who sees and cares about every single thing they do, and thus is going to award them for it.

Amen, sista'! eek!

Wonderer
Originally posted by Clone-Commander
Besides, listen how they say about stuff like evolution. It cant have happened anyways because they say like bacteria formed together made thi and then made that. Well, where did the bacteria coem from? Where did teh stuff that made the bacteria come from? Where did the stuff that made the stuff that made tha bacteria come from? It all adds up to one person. God. If you dont believe in him, fine, your choice. But remember, if there is no god and you are right you just dissapear from history, but if there is and you didnt believe, then you are going to have a fun time dancing with the devil on fire. Good luck people. You are gonna need it.

So where does the stuff come from which constructed God...where does this God come from? You still sit with the same problem of first origin. And even if you say God was always there (didn't come from anything), then you might as well say that everything (being as such) was always there. There is just no reason that all of being must have a divine purpose - for what?

debbiejo
Originally posted by Spelljammer
I had a dream about talking to God, He explained to me how things work, why things work, and how they will continue to work. In all the glory and cosmology, about the simplest most gratifying response I can give you is to accept in this life that well.. shit happens..

What did god say in your dream....seriously....I'm curious.

Spelljammer
Originally posted by debbiejo
What did god say in your dream....seriously....I'm curious.
Mostly about how I need to set my priorities, because we're reaching a point in our lives where there is no turning back. Hard to explain, but as time progresses it makes more sense. Immagine there was an energy force that sorrounded and bonded you to everything, now immagine there was TWO forces, constantly conflicting with one another. To immagine these two forces, take a peice of paper and draw a circle, the circle represents one force, the rest represents the paper. One is seperate from the paper and yet somehow connected to the whole, it is powerful because it has it's own personal feel and not partof some generic hive mind, the paper in question dominates despite it because of it's sheer mass, and even though it cannot penetrate the circle, it lurks inside of it.

All beings are manifesations of the forces. The plants, the animals, even words and sounds. Everything is an extension of thier true nature. Consitantly living in harmony (or not) for the eternity.. As time progresses, mankind, being a manifestation with a conciounce, grows constitently tired of it's conflicting half, they become more extreme and more dangerous with each passing moment. Hope diminishes because the only mindset is to destroy rather then to be happy.. I then got stroken with an odd sense of desa-vu when I was looking at random Biblical things and saw the prophecy of "the behemoth versus the leviathin".

But there was no incentive to do anything for anybody, people have to find out for themselves the dangers of thinking this way, and that in the end I just have to trust that God knows what He's doing. It may suck, but we do what we can. I wasn't very convinced and did not like the idea of being dubbed "the middleman" because of past life choices which made me feel even lonlier in the grand scheme of things so he then gave kindof a wicked grin and said "you know, you remind me of Lucifer in alot of ways.." I kindof got shocked and offended then He said "nono, don't take it an insult, there's a distinct differance between Lucifer and Satan." and we were in some kindof dark room like that scene where Neo visitited god but it was dark not white and when He said Satan George W. Bush appeared on the computer screens.

I've been having dreams of God using computer screens to moniter us sense I was around four years old. Mom told me about how when I was a child I'd tell her things like that, and that was kindof disturbing cause I wasn't thinking about technological spyware at an age where I was still watching Pee Wee's Playhouse..

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?

1. Just because one religions god says it is aloud doesn't mean all the others do aswell.

2. In them days Nobody read the Bible properly, or they would have read that the jews are important. Plus most were Catholics whom didn't even read the Bible so they actually knew nothing about how important the Jews actually are to God. It was started by bad rumors when some were jealous and tried to use the Bible against the jews whom actually made it.

3. God doesn't give people deseases. Blame it on ancient man whom forced god to create such things.

You might not know this but Catholics block off the whole idea that god exists by not reading the Bible, which was infact brought over here to tell us the news of god in the first place.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
1. Just because one religions god says it is aloud doesn't mean all the others do aswell.

2. In them days Nobody read the Bible properly, or they would have read that the jews are important. Plus most were Catholics whom didn't even read the Bible so they actually knew nothing about how important the Jews actually are to God. It was started by bad rumors when some were jealous and tried to use the Bible against the jews whom actually made it.

3. God doesn't give people deseases. Blame it on ancient man whom forced god to create such things.

You might not know this but Catholics block off the whole idea that god exists by not reading the Bible, which was infact brought over here to tell us the news of god in the first place.

The bible you read was put together by the Catholics and Catholics do read the bible.

So, ancient man forced god to do something? Sounds like a week god you have there.

Legend Of Chibi
No, he ain't weak, they just betrayed him and he needed a punishment, infact people also sin today which is why he ain't gotten rid of them.

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible you read was put together by the Catholics and Catholics do read the bible.

You are confusing me much here.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
You are confusing me much here.

Sorry about that. Are we talking about the bible or something different like the book of Mormon?

Legend Of Chibi
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Still confused, nvm.
The last i heard of Catholics was that they didn't read the Bible, and there we go. Anyways, why'd the catholics kill the Jews when they knew it was bad to do so? Maybe because they didn't read it properly.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Still confused, nvm.
The last i heard of Catholics was that they didn't read the Bible, and there we go. Anyways, why'd the catholics kill the Jews when they knew it was bad to do so? Maybe because they didn't read it properly.

When did the Catholics kill the Jews?

I know several Catholics and they read the bible. They even have study groups.

http://www.catholicexchange.com/css/

Imagawa666
Because They didnt like jews

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Because They didnt like jews

A lot of people have killed other people over time. I wanted to know what is the event that he is talking about. I think he is talking without knowing anything, that is why he has not replied. Who hates who is of no concern to me, but if you start talking sh*t, I will jump you.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?

When its time for some one to go God has a way of doing it

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by finti
just the OT that is jewish

Which is what we've just said.

The 10 commandments, floods, noah etc etc is all in OT. NT is just few apostles writing what Jesus did. It has very little to do with God.

finti
it was a reply to a previous post.....if you look at the post one more time maybe you get the full context of it!!!!!!!


here I get it for ya

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Which is what we've just said.

The 10 commandments, floods, noah etc etc is all in OT. NT is just few apostles writing what Jesus did. It has very little to do with God.

Oh! ok, OT in this case means Old Testament not Off Topic. big grin Just for a little while there I was so confused

debbiejo
Shaky.....really???? are you that tired today...

Yes it is the Old Test, though the new test was also written by Jews, except Luke, I think, and well Paul was Jewish and a Roman Citizen...

The Jews don't except the NT...and the Torah, I think is only the first 5 books of the OT...But Christians claim it all as theirs.

finti
greedy bastards smokin'

debbiejo
they want everything...Just like the British.....

paperbag3

finti
yeah...british??????? what do they want beside fish and chips wrapped in newspapers

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
Shaky.....really???? are you that tired today...

Yes it is the Old Test, though the new test was also written by Jews, except Luke, I think, and well Paul was Jewish and a Roman Citizen...

The Jews don't except the NT...and the Torah, I think is only the first 5 books of the OT...But Christians claim it all as theirs.

According to my list of web acronyms (that I got off the web) OT = off topic. I constantly go to that list. NRN
AFAIK GA IRL LOL B4 FUBAR stick out tongue

Imagawa666
Im British... PLease dont insult us like that. We may have had a huge empire which outstrips all your ouny achievments but that was quite a time ago.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Im British... PLease dont insult us like that. We may have had a huge empire which outstrips all your ouny achievments but that was quite a time ago.

Don't get offended, get even. laughing

Imagawa666
How smartarse?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Imagawa666
How smartarse?


????
I didn't understand that. confused

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by debbiejo
they want everything...Just like the British.....

paperbag3

That's typical coming from an American whom have much more land then Britain yet still are only abit more stronger.

Legend Of Chibi
Plus I was talking about when germany slaughtered the Jews and the whole of Europe mistreated them back in WW2. Yet the Bible says they are important.

debbiejo
There is a god, she's cooking dinner for Jesus....

I'm just staying on topic...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Plus I was talking about when germany slaughtered the Jews and the whole of Europe mistreated them back in WW2. Yet the Bible says they are important.
Why do you think the Nazis and the Catholics are the same thing?

Imagawa666
Consider America exists because of Britain.... All your false beliefs cant change that. How we let some insurrectionists kick us out of mour land... Like William Wallace curse his skin...

Spelljammer
I wouldn't be suprised if the United States was the beast. It would explain some very awckward things..

For one, we are the most diverse in all the world. You don't see nearly as many multiracial, ethical, and national parties as you do in this country. Yet we are the ones who most fear biggotry.

Secondly, we have ALOT of Jews and yet, 80% of them are anti-Zion securalist sympathizers. What the hell?

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why do you think the Nazis and the Catholics are the same thing?

I don't think they are the same thing, infact, forget about what i said about the Catholics, and say that all the Christians who were mean to the Jews were not reading the Bible properly. Anyways, Hitler used everyones hate for the Jews to create even more hatred and make his country do as he commanded.

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by Spelljammer
Mostly about how I need to set my priorities, because we're reaching a point in our lives where there is no turning back. Hard to explain, but as time progresses it makes more sense. Immagine there was an energy force that sorrounded and bonded you to everything, now immagine there was TWO forces, constantly conflicting with one another. To immagine these two forces, take a peice of paper and draw a circle, the circle represents one force, the rest represents the paper. One is seperate from the paper and yet somehow connected to the whole, it is powerful because it has it's own personal feel and not partof some generic hive mind, the paper in question dominates despite it because of it's sheer mass, and even though it cannot penetrate the circle, it lurks inside of it.

All beings are manifesations of the forces. The plants, the animals, even words and sounds. Everything is an extension of thier true nature. Consitantly living in harmony (or not) for the eternity.. As time progresses, mankind, being a manifestation with a conciounce, grows constitently tired of it's conflicting half, they become more extreme and more dangerous with each passing moment. Hope diminishes because the only mindset is to destroy rather then to be happy.. I then got stroken with an odd sense of desa-vu when I was looking at random Biblical things and saw the prophecy of "the behemoth versus the leviathin".

But there was no incentive to do anything for anybody, people have to find out for themselves the dangers of thinking this way, and that in the end I just have to trust that God knows what He's doing. It may suck, but we do what we can. I wasn't very convinced and did not like the idea of being dubbed "the middleman" because of past life choices which made me feel even lonlier in the grand scheme of things so he then gave kindof a wicked grin and said "you know, you remind me of Lucifer in alot of ways.." I kindof got shocked and offended then He said "nono, don't take it an insult, there's a distinct differance between Lucifer and Satan." and we were in some kindof dark room like that scene where Neo visitited god but it was dark not white and when He said Satan George W. Bush appeared on the computer screens.

I've been having dreams of God using computer screens to moniter us sense I was around four years old. Mom told me about how when I was a child I'd tell her things like that, and that was kindof disturbing cause I wasn't thinking about technological spyware at an age where I was still watching Pee Wee's Playhouse..

That's pretty cool, I feel that the world will end in 2007.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
I don't think they are the same thing, infact, forget about what i said about the Catholics, and say that all the Christians who were mean to the Jews were not reading the Bible properly. Anyways, Hitler used everyones hate for the Jews to create even more hatred and make his country do as he commanded.

That was my problem with what you said, there's enough blame to go around for the Holocaust.

Imagawa666
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regulus A Black
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?

ok so here is the thing God does exist, he lets people die in terrorism, and war, so the testimonies of the innocent, will convict the ones who commited the acts, with the number of innocent lives that were killed in terrorist attacks, the terrorists are already convicted, there will be so many testimonies of their deeds to convict them
and with diseases, killing people, God will do what he wants to do, it humbles the person who gets the disease, and teaches a lesson to the family, that they must trust in God with all their heart and he will protect them.
and physical evidence of God existing, if we knew of the physical evidence that was all around us, then it would ruin the plan that God has for us, God wants us to be tested, he wants us to return to him, but we must have faith in order to do that, if we knew he was there, it would not be a test. This life is all about having faith

debbiejo
I always though we needed to change the name....There's bible god, and then there's the bigger one....Huge, huge,..big, bigger, biggest...

The thing that one can't describe...really really giant.....That's why we say "OH GOD"....BECAUSE IT'S SOOOOOOOOO good. embarrasment

GhostDance
Man creates god....god tells man what to do...man gets bored of god...god still tries to tell man what to do...man discovers tv....god still shouting at the top of his voice that man has to do what he says....man discovers the internet then talks about if god exsists....big rock from space destroys earth.....big rock wins.

God destroyed the cities of the old world because we were all behaving in an altogether bad manner. Yet he chose one bloke (noah0 and his family to repopulate the earth (you would of thought god being so powerful would know thats not enough people to repopulate a planet).

SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK HES UPTO NOW?!?!?!?

The world is pile of dung at the moment. At no other time has there been so much hate and bad stuff going on and yet he does nothing...Where is the cleansing flood to do away with all us sinners?!?

God does nothing....because he/she/it doesn't exsist.

Imagawa666
Who dragged this thread back up?

AOR
Originally posted by Imagawa666
If God is real then I would like to draw everyones attention to the following facts:

1:Terrorism
If God loves all faithful then why did he condem so many in Beslan, the World trade center and London. In Beslan all those innocent children.

2:War
If he loves us all then why did 6million Jews get exterminated in WWII. Why did so many innocents who opposed the war die.

3:He makes even the devout suffer
My Grandad was a devout catholic yet he contracted Alzheimers diesease. He never did a bad thign in his life and was a dveout follower of god. So why did he and so many other faithful die agonising and cruel deaths. And make familys suffer.

Please respond. All the faithful I would like your defence of your God so I understand your views. And no the third point isnt becasue of my relative but because of millions of others. And where is the physical eveidence of God existing?


The view of believing in a God is accepting the fact that the adversities in life are not evidences that he doesn't exist or that he doesn't love you, but rather wants you to prove yourself to him. The millions of Jews who died in WWII died knowing that their God didn't abandon them. And for those who did survive, last time I checked, they are still Jews. But because we are catholics does not exempt us from the idea of suffering for God. I mean God suffered for us, the least we can do is sacrifise a little of our comfort zone for him. Sure life's tough having to constantly put up with all the people who claim God doesn't exsist because they can't "see" him. Or when they pull up things like "God wouldn't have allowed terrorist to attack America". The thing is God loves people, people don't love people. It's people who caused the pain and suffering of 9/11 and the results thereof. It's people who started WWII and the holocaust who killed many Jews. It was man and woman who let sin and death into the world that causes so much pain. God's just trying to make things better by offering you hope. Hope in a better tomorrow, hope in a better world, but most of all, hope in Him.

degrassicoolie
ok... if there isn't a god then who created us did we just somehow "pop up" onto the earth I don't think so

AOR
Originally posted by degrassicoolie
ok... if there isn't a god then who created us did we just somehow "pop up" onto the earth I don't think so

Well if you study Apologetics, than you would know that many theories concerning Creation are divided into three main catagories: 1)One great divine being that created us. 2)Evolution and the big bang. 3) And intelligent design (which in my opinion is the same as the first, but whatever makes them happy).

debbiejo
Originally posted by degrassicoolie
ok... if there isn't a god then who created us did we just somehow "pop up" onto the earth I don't think so One view that differers from the creation story being told as a literal story, is that in the beginning we all being part of the eternal intelligence and wanted to come down and experience what hard ship was, so we took a bite from the tree of Knowledge. Knowledge of experiencing life, and no longer in a spiritual form of the tree of Life. By splintering off from what the intelligence was we now have a form which to experience life with all it's hardships, a change in form as you will.

Resa<3
#1: It is not God doing these things persay, it is the Devil, aka Satan. He allowed satan to have his time to go against god, his whole perpose is to make us go against god's will. He wanted to be better than God. So since he couldn't be better than God following God's ways, he decided to go against him instead, and try to make us suffer to sort of laugh in god's face saying, "Look, I can make your own creation go against you! " kin of thing. Thats why hes trying to hurt people by going through terrorism and other things like that. Evil is everywhere.

#2: Satan once again was in control of that. God had much more control of coarse, but it was his plan to let these things happen, all has a reason. He allows satan to do his evil for a short time, and then he will come back on the judgement day. That means that he will come back for those who believed him, and thats when it will end for the christians.He will let evil be on the earth for another few years, i think its 3 1/2 yrs. But there is a second coming of God, and he will come and damn all the rest minus the ones that managed to live through the rough times of the persecution of the believers and followers of christ, and became saved during those times. This time is coming very soon. We can tell by the signs like we notice it is fall when the leaves change, says the Lord. He allowed it to happen, the same reason why terrorism is going on. It will end, but this is satan's time to be doing his part also. He has the permission form God to do what he pleases to people, he does nothing without the permissoin of god. He comes to him first. I will have to look into it more in the scriptures. Life doesn't end after death. You can go to heaven or hell. And God also doesn't want to interfere with everything, everything evil and sinful is sin, there is no level of how bad something is, so maybe he is just lettign us live the way we want to, including Hitlor. That was his choice, everyone has one. Thats the way God wanted it to be that we may have a free will. It is a part of his plan for us.

#3messedame reason. Things happen, it is the way things are. God says that good people and godly people are going to suffer as well as bad ones and ungodly ones. He doesn't look at your physical suffering, God only loks at the spiritual things, he looks at the heart. He doesn't want you to suffer but the devil does. And as I said before, he only looks at your spirit. He does care for the struggles in your life, but that is spiritual. It's an emotion. It doesn't really matter how much someone may suffer from a disease, it matters about thier personal life with God.

#4: Look on the bright side. Look at all the good things that God is doing for us. Here are some thigs he is giving us:
~Happiness
~Choice
~Forgiveness
~Heaven, eternal life of happiness where nothing evil or sad or hurtful can be
~His Son, so that we are able to have eternal life
Think about these things, and be happy for these amazing gifts he has given us. Are they worth the suffering? Yes, because they all end with happiness and comfort, when you want him to. Go to God and he can answer you and help you. "For all things come together for good, to those who love God." Think about that verse.

#5: There is so much scientific proof that there is a GOd. Think of creation and the things some people believe in. The big bang is one scientific theory, and the conflict is, where did that spec come from? When there is no one there to have created it? Something had to do it. That leads scientists to beleive that there is a God. There anre many beliefs, and many scientists who have studied this subject for many years, sometimes all thier life, and they have all said to have had no choice but to believe in creation. That includes a God. Either that, or they all came to the point where it was the only thing possible. It is the only thing possible to believe in something, a supernatural being that has no end and no beggining, God. Doesn't matter what you can say or do, that's the way it is. And think deep, look at everything around you. Who else could have put the earth in such a position that it didn't freeze or burn in such a heat. Or create everything, the laws of physics, hey, soemone had to make those rules. If God wanted to make it possibble to float in mid-air but have it called gravity and make you heavy at the same time and make it possible that walls can only be held straight on a 45 dg angle he could have done it. End of story. And no one else but God could think of such a divine plan and create or minds. We can only clone things, but God can make up everything in our body, molicules and atoms, organs, emotions, no other thing on earth besides teh human race can think with emotional impact. No other can think lkike we can or try and think why soemthing is the way it is. No one can breath life into dirt and make a man. But God. It was a beautiful plan.

If you have anymore questions dont hesitate to ask me. Anything.
-Resa &lt;3

debbiejo
Well I never said there wasn't an intelligent force..As for satan, that is based on myth. Most all myths have an evil nemesis. Like all so called devils, satan began as a god figure. The early Egyptians called him the Great Serpent Sata, son of the earth, immortal because he was regenerated every day in the goddess womb..the earth...Sata is also been associated by the underground aspect of the sun, Horus-Ra, corresponding to Apollos underground serpent form Python, who the Jews called Apollyon, spirit of the pit. To the Hebrews satan an adversary in the sense of the judge...One who tested the faith of another by asking trick questions like Loki...The medieval church insisted that satan "transfigures himself into an angel of light,, so anyone claiming an unofficial angelic vision could be charged with devil worship at the discretion of inquisitors, who, naturally, always knew the difference between a real angel and a devil in angelic disguise.

Satan is also called the morning and evening star just as Jesus was. Which really is speaking of the planet Venus..

Shakyamunison
What is real?

Mindship
"If there is a God, why is there so much suffering in the world?" seems to be the question people ask when entertaining/adopting the atheist's stance.
My response has generally been, "Perhaps you need to change your understanding of "God."
I also like the response George Burns gave John Denver, when "Jerry" asked God how He could allow so much suffering.

God replies (to this effect): "How can I allow such suffering? How can you allow such suffering?"

IMO, a God which makes a creature without free will, a creature which knows with certainty that "God watches" and therefore s/he should do right because of that, is a lesser God than one who can create a being With free will, a being who can doubt God's existence, then decide on his/her own the right thing to do, learning, growing.

The Ultimate Creation is one which can choose, with honesty of heart and critique of mind, whether or not to believe. Unfortunately, such a glorious creation does not come without a price.

Bruce Lee once said that if enlightenment were easy, it wouldnt be worth anything.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Mindship
"If there is a God, why is there so much suffering in the world?" seems to be the question people ask when entertaining/adopting the atheist's stance.
My response has generally been, "Perhaps you need to change your understanding of "God."
I also like the response George Burns gave John Denver, when "Jerry" asked God how He could allow so much suffering.

God replies (to this effect): "How can I allow such suffering? How can you allow such suffering?"

IMO, a God which makes a creature without free will, a creature which knows with certainty that "God watches" and therefore s/he should do right because of that, is a lesser God than one who can create a being With free will, a being who can doubt God's existence, then decide on his/her own the right thing to do, learning, growing.

The Ultimate Creation is one which can choose, with honesty of heart and critique of mind, whether or not to believe. Unfortunately, such a glorious creation does not come without a price.

Bruce Lee once said that if enlightenment were easy, it wouldnt be worth anything.

No one has free will according to The Bible:

Mindship
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No one has free will according to The Bible:

Bummer

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
Bummer

WOW! you are a man of words. laughing

Mindship
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
WOW! you are a man of words. laughing

too "busy" to type more

pile

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mindship
too "busy" to type more

pile

I like it...

Some people have too many words to say nothing. eek!

debbiejo
Originally posted by Mindship
too "busy" to type more

pile eek! laughing out loud Is this the "Wanking " Thread?

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