Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who takes it?

Debate.

This is a good one, I think that The Punisher could take Nick Fury, this wouldnt be easy but, he knows more styles and probably has motives to kick Furys ass just like everyone else in the MU, and Punisher is in better physical shape.

Well, I know Fury's good enough to keep up with Captain America, and that alone has to say a lot.

def punisher

fury would whip castle's tail.

Im going for Fury as well.

nick fury wins. The mans a black belt in jiu jitsu which means hes badass

Originally posted by goldendartkilla
nick fury wins. The mans a black belt in jiu jitsu which means hes badass

My Ju Jutsu (that's the way we spell it) sensei (27 y old chick) has a black belt in Ju jutsu as well.....i won in a judo fight with her. .........after which she promptly beat me up

Ahem.....excuse the unneccessary rant....

~wickerman~

Originally posted by goldendartkilla
nick fury wins. The mans a black belt in jiu jitsu which means hes badass

He has a BROWN belt in Ju-Jitsu, and thats the Japanese kind which is useless I SPANK their Blackbelts like its nothing, SERIOUSLY

BRAZILIAN jIu-jitsu is the dangerous stuff, in which i train in, and fury doesnt which means he dont know squat.

I'd go with Punisher. He's quite good at knuckle fist fighter.

nick fury's over 50 years old and in a hospital bed right now..I don't think he'll be winning any fist fights with punisher any time soon at all....

Originally posted by King KAM
He has a BROWN belt in Ju-Jitsu, and thats the Japanese kind which is useless I SPANK their Blackbelts like its nothing, SERIOUSLY

BRAZILIAN jIu-jitsu is the dangerous stuff, in which i train in, and fury doesnt which means he dont know squat.

It's JP happening all over again

~wickerman~

<<nick fury's over 50 years old and in a hospital bed right now..I don't think he'll be winning any fist fights with punisher any time soon at all....>>

damn, who invited the wet rag to the party . . .?



when fury was in his PRIME i'd give it to fury. in h2h daredevil has PUNKED punisher a couple times. fury is at least as good as dd.

Could go either way. Oh, Nick fury is old, but thanks to the infinity formula he ingested which retarded his aging, he's still pretty much in his prime. I wouldn't count out Fury to easily. Both have had their share of bad ass moments. This fight could go either way.

yeah but...the guys' only got one eye...you think punisher's too "honorable" to take advantage of something like that?

Slade has one eye as well. And we all know how much of a disadvantage that is lol. Fury having one eye means nothing.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Slade has one eye as well. And we all know how much of a disadvantage that is lol. Fury having one eye means nothing.
except that he has horrible depth perception.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Slade has one eye as well. And we all know how much of a disadvantage that is lol. Fury having one eye means nothing.
actually slade has various enhancements to make up for that..also...he's a better fighter...ALSO...he actually has two eyes..one's just cybernetic...

Slades enhancements make him slightly above peak human. Better fighter than who? As in ability in h2h combat? Slade is barely top 10. Because of him using 90% of his brain power, that gives him an edge in combat.

Since when was it stated that he has a cybernetic eye? Does he use it to see on the regular? Does he see through the patch? Doubt it.

slightly above peak human? he's a peak human x 10..how is that "slightly" in the least?


slade beat batman in h2h combat...that says a LOT about his fighting ability right there...how about when he held off wonder woman?

and he's had the cybernetic eye for a while now...there isn't too much info about how it works...but he has it...in any case ds is not fury. fury will most likely lose this fight IMO.

Slade isnt peak human x10. Hes the average man x10.

Slade beat Batman due to skill? Or did the enhancements like precog and 90% brain power help him? I dont know what happened in the fight so i cant say. Slade held off Womder Woman makes him a top h2h combatant? Just like he beat the JLA. I call it PIS/CIS.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I still say Fury beats Castle.

he was whatever he was x10...

considering his profession I'm assuming he was either peak or something hella close.

he beat batman thanks to his enhancements at the end of the fight, when the fight kicked of his fighting ability was easily only slighty under par with the bat though...

all I'm saying is this, deathstroke has a TON of different factors that make him something else from fury entirely.... fury as one freakin eye...common sense dictates anyone with a decent amount of experience or fighting ability should be able to take advantage of that...

I hear what youre saying. Deathstroke does have alot of factors that make him diff from Fury. Same could be said for Nick. But just because he has one eye, it doesnt give or put him at a dissadvantage. The normal person would ofcourse try to take advantage of him having one eye, but Castle and every other formidable h2h combitant in the MU knows that it doesnt hinder Fury at all. Thus theres nothing to take advantage of.

actually there is...it's called a blind spot....being good at fighting doesn't make you proficient at fighting blind..which is what fury would have to be able to do NOT to be hindered by it....otherwise pun can take advantage of him just fine...









that didn't sound right.

Well considering Fury lost the vision in the eye due to WW2, he was still able to move up ranks in command, become a spy, join the CIA, become S.H.I.E.L.D's top agent, as well as contiually train and sparr with Cap.

Im sure he was aware that people may try top take advantage of his "blind spot" Thats why hes continued to train and be as good as he is. Has Fury ever been hindered by a blindspot? Not too likely. Theres plenty of people who have full use of both eyes as still arent as good as him.

yeah..and punisher doesn't fall into that category your point doesn't quite work for the premise of your argument...

because people not as good as fury can't beat him doesn't mean punisher can't.

I never said Punisher cant beat him. Im just saying Fury wins more times thatn not.

My point was that Punisher wouldnt try to take advantage of Furys handicap. Because it doesnt give him one. The average person would think they have an advantage due to Nick's eye. Castle is smarter than that.

no...no he's not... and yes he will take advantage of it....

Good luck lol.

good luck?

The loss of one eye in a fist fight is serious sh!it. Doesn't anyone watch boxing? As soon as they get a cut in one and blood drips in they just keep getting popped over and over agian on that side of there head. Good fighters use subtle movements, and having a huge blind spot is in no way not a factor.

Fury's a bad ass, and I'm sure he's adapted, but he's still impaired.

ex-****ing-zactly!

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
The loss of one eye in a fist fight is serious sh!it. Doesn't anyone watch boxing? As soon as they get a cut in one and blood drips in they just keep getting popped over and over agian on that side of there head. Good fighters use subtle movements, and having a huge blind spot is in no way not a factor.

Fury's a bad ass, and I'm sure he's adapted, but he's still impaired.

Yea thats boxing. You capitalize on your opponents injury. Blood gets in the eye as well as sweat. It also swells up, thus the opponent continues to work on it and try to get a TKO.

Fury on the otherhand didnt just lose the eye. Theres no swelling, blood, or sweat in it. No TKO in this fight. Yes hes impaired, but if he didnt wear the patch and just wore sunglases, youd never know he was.

it has nothing to do with attacking the wound itself...but rather the vulerable area...nick's got a major handicap here..just deal with it.

why do you think blodd and sweat disables a person in a fight? it doesn't, it just becomes a nuicance as most people have a reliance on both eyes...then....it quickly becomes something to capitalize on... that said punihser will see something he can capitalize on right from the get-go....where does your assumption come from that nick's not handicapped in some way?

Where is Nicks vunerable area? Hes got a major handicap as in a lost eye. It doesnt dissable him in any way. With a lost eye he was still able to move up in ranks and acheive all he has.

Im not saying that Nick isnt a hindicap. Im saying that his handicap doesnt affect him. Deathstroke nor Deadshot loses anything by using noe eye. Nor does Fury. If his one eye did hinder him in anyway, everyone would try to take advantage of that, but they cant. And neither would Punisher.

Who have you seen capatalize on Nicks "handicap"? Tell me and end this debate.

i really think you need to look up impaired individuals in the dictionary.

having one eye IS a handicap...a handicap is defined as having an affect on it's host...

if you have a decent reason for why nick fury would be a better fighter due to his handicap I'd like to hear it. (please refrain from deathstroke and deadshot because one deathstroke has enhanced abilities, and a cybernetic eye, deadshot is another kind of "fighter" than either of them. up close having one eye does effect him...like when he was about th shot batman and batman dodged out of his eyesight...the next thing he saw was batman's fist...

thing is neither of these guys are nick fury, and hardly even comparable.

honestly, I've never seen nick fury hold his own against any major leaguers that I'm aware of...every time I ever see him fight it's against thugs, and hydra agents which although he does extremely well....they are not punisher...

how is not having vision in one eye not going to afffect nick fury?

can he see through that patch?

Originally posted by jinzin
i really think you need to look up impaired individuals in the dictionary.

having one eye IS a handicap...a handicap is defined as having an affect on it's host...

And i really think you need to read. In my last post as well as others i said that Fury IS handicap as well a impaired. BUT because he is, it helped him to train even harder to be the best at what he is. He didnt let his "handicap" hinder him. In technical terms everyone know Fury is handicap. In battle does it affect him? No. If so he wouldnt be the top S.H.I.E.L.D agent. If his "handicap had an affect on him, he would be able to continue to spar with Cap all the time or lead people into battle.

Originally posted by jinzin
if you have a decent reason for why nick fury would be a better fighter due to his handicap I'd like to hear it. (please refrain from deathstroke and deadshot because one deathstroke has enhanced abilities, and a cybernetic eye, deadshot is another kind of "fighter" than either of them. up close having one eye does effect him...like when he was about th shot batman and batman dodged out of his eyesight...the next thing he saw was batman's fist...

Uhh from the time he bacame a hindicap, he actually acceled in his field of work. From WW2 he did become a better fighter over the years. When he became a handicap, he worked HARDER at his skills, because he knew that people would try to use him being a "handicap" to their advantage. You keep bringing upDeathstrooke's cybernetic eye, but yet he hardly uses it. Does the cybernetic eye see through the patch as well? C'mon. Deadshot is still a top marksman in the world. Can he see through the mask as well? A yea bring up a crossover. Like theyre going to have Batman get shot by Nick Fury.

Originally posted by jinzin
how is not having vision in one eye not going to afffect nick fury?

can he see through that patch?

Besides a crossover, can you show me it has? Thanks.

so being handicapped helped him to excell.....it however did not make his handicap a NON-FACTOR....

can one who has not trained in "fighting blind" be unaffected by not having 50% of their eyesight?

Being handicaped help him to work, train harder. Over the years hes become a better fighter as well as go up ranks. Did the hadicap hinder him from doing these things? No. It motivated him to become better.

If someone never trained fighting blind, they cannot be unaffected. I wouldnt say otherwise. However Fury isnt blind and wouldnt need to train blind. Did he continue to train with one eye and get better? He sure did. Did he continue to master forms of armed and unarmed combat? Yup. Does he continue to meet up with Cap and duke it out every once and a while? Indeed.

All with one eye too.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Being handicaped help him to work, train harder. Over the years hes become a better fighter as well as go up ranks. Did the hadicap hinder him from doing these things? No. It motivated him to become better.

If someone never trained fighting blind, they cannot be unaffected. I wouldnt say otherwise. However Fury isnt blind and wouldnt need to train blind. Did he continue to train with one eye and get better? He sure did. Did he continue to master forms of armed and unarmed combat? Yup. Does he continue to meet up with Cap and duke it out every once and a while? Indeed.

All with one eye too.

dude I realize what you're saying but the point is having one eye has very little to do with mastering MA forms when one can adapt to the handicap, nor does it have much to do with moving up in ranks...

you speak of these things as if because he's done them he's automatically immune to being eploited...he's not..plain and simple... his "motivation" has nothing to do with his handicap which can and WILL be exploited... you've already admitted that if one hasn't trained in fighting blind they can't be completely unaffected by their handicap...yet you said that fury's unaffected by his... you have no rational whatsoever...your thesis is ridiculous.

Since WW2, over the years Fury started losing sight in his eye. Its not like he just got the handicap. If he and Punisher were to fight the week after Fury completely losing his eye, then Punisher would indeed have something to exploit. Its not the case now and Punisher would know that. Considering he knows about Fury. If he didnt know him Punisher says to himself....

"This one-eyed joke thinks he can stand in my way?" "An easy victory for me. Yesss!"

Then gets his ass handed to him.

he does know him though...

so not having one eye is actually to fury's advantage in your opinion?

well, according to the marvel power grids, both are level 6 fighters. they have identical stats except that pun's intelligence is 2, fury's is 3. as far as handicaps, stick is blind and would kill both of these guys in h2h fights. fury's had the impairment for 50 years. the body adapts to impairments in many ways. to achieve level 6 fighter, i'd say his body likely adapted to it's problem pretty well. even fighters, fury is smarter. like jrod, i give the majority to fury. 6/10

Originally posted by leonidas
well, according to the marvel power grids, both are level 6 fighters. they have identical stats except that pun's intelligence is 2, fury's is 3. as far as handicaps, stick is blind and would kill both of these guys in h2h fights. fury's had the impairment for 50 years. the body adapts to impairments in many ways. to achieve level 6 fighter, i'd say his body likely adapted to it's problem pretty well. even fighters, fury is smarter. like jrod, i give the majority to fury. 6/10

but stick has adapted because he's completely blind.... fury's other senses can only adapt so much when he still relies on eyesight...

But Fury's body has adapted completely to the handicap. It doesnt hinder him in any way. Although im sure it has about 50 or so years ago, but like i said eventhough he may technically be handicap, it doesnt hinder him in trhe least.

And to your reply to what i said Jinzin. In certain ways Fury having one eye DOES give him an advantage. Not knowing who he is the average person would immediately think they win cause theyll just take advantage of the eye. Which is clearly not the case or else Fury would have been dead long ago. Although all the superior tech he carries around does help lol.

I know Punisher knows Fury, i was trying to make a point in saying that Castle would assume it was an easy victory if he didnt know Fury as does everyone else. And that would result in a quicker downfall. But because he does know Fury, he knows that the "handicap" wouldnt give him an advantage at all.

not seeing in one friggin eye is gonna be a handicap any way you slice it..the only way he'd have adapted completely to it is if had trained to fight blind...period....personally I haven't seen any evidence that he's done so.. if you can find proof of this I'll shut up..until then... punisher knows who he is, and knows he has a blind spot..blind spots are exploitable...fury doesn't have any "powers" that negate this....fury's open to exploitation because he has a handicaped... he's adapted so that it doesn't hinder him as much as it otherwise would but it's still a handicap...especially when the guy he's fighting is at his same skill level.

Who says it isnt a handicap? Nobody said that Fury has trained blind. And he and Punisher arent on the same level of skills. Bio wise, they have the same attribute points in fighting skills, but Fury is way more skilled and seasoned than Punisher.

Plus Punishers handicap is Fury having more superior weapons.

weapons? this is a fist fight...

you said that the handicap didn't affect him whatsoever...then it's not a handicap..but you say that it is a handicap..which is it?

and being at the same fighting ability in a fist fight certainly implies they have the same skill level.

more seasoned? pffft..fighting against hydra goons.. punisher throws down with spiderman, wolverine, hulk, ghost rider, daredevil, AND he does it on a regular basis...

Please quote when i said that Fury didnt have a handicap.
I said that he IS handicap but id DOES NOT hinder him in his abilities.

yes Fury is Decades more seasoned than Punisher.

"Punisher throws down with spiderman, wolverine, hulk, ghost rider, daredevil, AND he does it on a regular basis..."

And gets his ass handed to him on a regular basis as well.

umm he's beaten an/or stalemated all those guys... you must not read punisher....


anywho you didn't say that it wasn't a hadicap..you sait it didn't affect him..and you just restated that (it doesn't hinder him)

a handicap by definition is a hinderance...

Originally posted by King KAM
He has a BROWN belt in Ju-Jitsu, and thats the Japanese kind which is useless I SPANK their Blackbelts like its nothing, SERIOUSLY

BRAZILIAN jIu-jitsu is the dangerous stuff, in which i train in, and fury doesnt which means he dont know squat.

oh me got 6 Wing Tsun grades and 2 Escrima grades...it's a very effective fighting style in combat..no fancy kicks and screams...very spartanic and soley intended to take you down...fast and hard...

@topic: jeez..that's a good match-up Fury has stood toe to toe with Cap and Castle locked horns with Wolverine, so their record speaks for itself, after spending some thought...Punisher would win an ugly battle by an inch..youth prevails...this time...

agreed.

Originally posted by jinzin
anywho you didn't say that it wasn't a hadicap..you sait it didn't affect him..and you just restated that (it doesn't hinder him)

a handicap by definition is a hinderance...

I did say it was a hindicap. I did say it didnt hinder him.

Does his handicap hinder him in battle? No i does not. Does it hinder him from doing his job with efficiency? Not at all.

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
@topic: jeez..that's a good match-up Fury has stood toe to toe with Cap and Castle locked horns with Wolverine, so their record speaks for itself, after spending some thought...Punisher would win an ugly battle by an inch..youth prevails...this time...

Youth? Fury is in peak condition due to him taking the Infinity Formula. Sorry.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I did say it was a hindicap. I did say it didnt hinder him.

Does his handicap hinder him in battle? No i does not. Does it hinder him from doing his job with efficiency? Not at all.

it will in a fist fight against punisher... his job as the leader of sheild isn't something that's reliant on 100% eyesight.

Originally posted by jinzin
it will in a fist fight against punisher... his job as the leader of sheild isn't something that's reliant on 100% eyesight.

He was also head agent in the CIA. The qualifications would have to be for the person to be able to execute, lead, participate and complete missions efficieantly. soldiers with 100% eyesight cant pull that off. And obviously as you prove my point, his handicap did not hinder him whatsoever. What would his job as leader of S.H.I.E.L.D be reliant on?

military intelligence and leadership first and foremost...neither of which helped him much from being put into a hospital recently...

Originally posted by jrodslam
He was also head agent in the CIA. The qualifications would have to be for the person to be able to execute, lead, participate and complete missions efficieantly. soldiers with 100% eyesight cant pull that off. And obviously as you prove my point, his handicap did not hinder him whatsoever. What would his job as leader of S.H.I.E.L.D be reliant on? good question...

Originally posted by jinzin
military intelligence and leadership first and foremost...neither of which helped him much from being put into a hospital recently...

leadership from where? The office? Feild leadership. And you cant be the top leacer if your hindered by a handicap. Put into a hospital how and by who/what?

Originally posted by jrodslam
leadership from where? The office? Feild leadership. And you cant be the top leacer if your hindered by a handicap. Put into a hospital how and by who/what?

office? how about the flying fortress that is the shield hellicarrier...yeah i guess that qualifies as the office. field leadership against whom? hydra? again..I'm not impressed.

and as far as the hospital bed is concerned...northstar curb-stomped the poor ol' guy.

Northstar? Someone who moves at around 700 mph? The same guy who hurt the Hulk with his punches? Shame on fury.

What comic is this? Recent you say?

wolverine 25 or 26..

all I'm saying is that you're making his field leadership out to be something it isn't....hell he was in a shield hellicarrier and a ton of villains got the jump on the thing... well obsviously he ain't that great is he?

and when northstar started pummeling him he wasn't moving 700 miles an hour.

Actually Northstar has the capacity to reach the speed of light.

Not at all. Youre the one makinf it out like him having one eye hinders him in any way. All im saying is that if it does, why is he so accomplished? Why is he the best at what he does?

Ok Northstar want moving at 700 mph. How fast was he? Or does it not say?
I just find it funny that you bring up Northstar knocking out Fury when he can move at mach speeds and has evebn hurt Savage Hulk with punches. Like he wouldnt do the same to Punisher.

Originally posted by Sentry
Actually Northstar has the capacity to reach the speed of light.

I was thinking that, but hes actually never done it though right?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I was thinking that, but hes actually never done it though right?

Right. Xavier says he could do it. But I think he has never even actually tried.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not at all. Youre the one makinf it out like him having one eye hinders him in any way. All im saying is that if it does, why is he so accomplished? Why is he the best at what he does?

Ok Northstar want moving at 700 mph. How fast was he? Or does it not say?
I just find it funny that you bring up Northstar knocking out Fury when he can move at mach speeds and has evebn hurt Savage Hulk with punches. Like he wouldnt do the same to Punisher.

he wasn't going super speeds....

Uhh ok. Can you prove this?

umm yeah....he was a blur....moving at super speeds...when he got to fury he stopped...then he was no longer a blur...then he just hit fury in the face... no blur..no super speed.

Originally posted by jinzin
umm yeah....he was a blur....moving at super speeds...when he got to fury he stopped...then he was no longer a blur...then he just hit fury in the face... no blur..no super speed.

Oh yea. Fury was really ready for that one? I guess Punisher beats him with ease based off that. Lol.

punisher gets his assed kicked

Originally posted by jrodslam
Oh yea. Fury was really ready for that one? I guess Punisher beats him with ease based off that. Lol.

that's not even the pointI was making when I originally brought it up...nor is this a point i've even implied...

Originally posted by jinzin
that's not even the pointI was making when I originally brought it up...nor is this a point i've even implied...

>>military intelligence and leadership first and foremost...neither of which helped him much from being put into a hospital recently...<<

What was the point then? You brought up Fury being put into a hospital because niether his military intelligence or leadership helped in battle?

Battle against who? Northstar. Why bring it up? Hed do the same to probably all street level fighters.

<<..the only way he'd have adapted completely to it is if had trained to fight blind...period....personally I haven't seen any evidence that he's done so.. if you can find proof of this I'll shut up>>

likewise jin, you can't prove by an instance in a comic that his blindness HAS hindered him. you're claiming that it is based on real life physics, but we know real life rules can't always be applied 'round here.

some of the facts are he spars regularly with cap and actually fought cap to a standstill in a REAL battle sometime ago. he's also an expert marksman -- that's . . . damn near impossible for someone with one eye. clearly he has adapted to the lack of binocularity to achieve such a level. (someone (not you) earlier mentioned he would have a huge depth perception problem - that's not wholly accurate. there are many different cues we use to determine depth)

as for adapting - perhaps the peripheral vision of his one eye far exceeds ours. maybe his opposite ear has become more sensitive. maybe just having been a warrior for so long now (FAR longer than castle) he's developed a greater intuitive sense for h2h combat. it bears repeating -- he's had what, 60 years to become accustomed to the problem. likewise, it's safe to assume i think that he would fight with or have developed a style that might help him alleviate whatever minor disadvantage a highly skilled opponent might gain.

as an example of his skills, in the wolverine/fury/scorpio graphic novel, wolvie and fury each battled zodiac 1on1 in different parts of the book. fury stalemated him (they ended up BOTH taking a long plunge into a river and zodiac escaped) while zodiac beat wolvie into near unconsciousness and was about to kill him with the zodiac weapon when FURY saved his arse and carried him out.

fury's got castle on experience and intelligence. you can't cite specific examples of his 'handicap' affecting him and he's had sufficient to time his body and skills to adapt to the problem. i'd usually say this was 50/50, but fury's edge in experience and brains puts him over the top for me at 6/10.

just cuz i don't like to see a good debate go to waste . . .

BUMP.

punisher wins...just barely..


2 dirty fighters fighting..I'll go with the dirty fighter that isn't impaired...

Originally posted by jinzin
punisher wins...just barely..


2 dirty fighters fighting..I'll go with the dirty fighter that isn't impaired...

Nice jinzin.

I say Fury, by an eye lash. Im going for the one with more skills.

but theyhave the same skill level in fighting ability...

so does fury's experience not count in that case? he's fought twice as long as castle has been alive.

All in all, it all boils down to who is mentioned in Cypress Hill lyrics.......and it AIN'T Nick Fury

But seriously....everybody's made good points in the thread. Especially leonidas. Cool post dude
If i were to take a swing at making a decision, i'd say Nick Fury takes it 6/10. Why? For reasons already stated. I don't believe that real life anatomy, as discussed in another thread, works in this case. Fury can be considered a handicap, but not handicapped. Yeah, i know, sounds stupid, but you all know what i mean, so don't pretend. His years of experience have a say in the whole thing, and IMO they'd be the deciding factor in an otherwise equal fight.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by jrodslam
Uhh ok. Can you prove this?

Dude northstar can't fight at superspeed, he can only move at superspeeds, look up his bio.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Dude northstar can't fight at superspeed, he can only move at superspeeds, look up his bio.

This is why it isnt good to always reffer to bios.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5716/northstarhitsavalanche0hh.th.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5209/northstarfightingtomatsuperspe.th.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4736/northstarfightingtomatsuperspe1.th.jpg

Merc got owned!!!

Bios are full of crap sometimes.

Fist fight or weapons. Fury still wins.

i disagree...but I will admite ou guys have convinced me this could go either way 5/10

Originally posted by Teracota warior
And another thing Ju-Jitsu is the best asian martial arts(apart from chinese martial arts, that?s a whole other topic)to have as a foundation that?s not brute strength based.

Where in God's name do you get your information from? As a guy that's done Ju Jutsu for quite a while......that's not true at all. As ANY martial art, you have procedures, tehniques that are preset and you study them so long until you finally get so used to them that when faced with a certain situation you automatically do them. Jinzin having done wrestling, knows what i mean.
However, though tehnique-based, as is any MA...Ju jutsu relies HEAVILY on Strength. leverage is very very important. But so is strength. Which is why my 3 star (we call them dan not star) black belt sensei beat the crap out of a 5 star black belt sensei. He was superior in strength. They had the exact same techniques, but strength plays an incredibly large role.

~wickerman~

<<i disagree...but I will admite ou guys have convinced me this could go either way 5/10>>

then my work here is done and i can fade gracefully into the sunset . . .

As much as I like both of them and want each of them to win, I, too, will have to give this a 5/10 for both of them.

They're both just so awesome in their own ways.

Originally posted by Wickerman
Where in God's name do you get your information from? As a guy that's done Ju Jutsu for quite a while......that's not true at all. As ANY martial art, you have procedures, tehniques that are preset and you study them so long until you finally get so used to them that when faced with a certain situation you automatically do them. Jinzin having done wrestling, knows what i mean.
However, though tehnique-based, as is any MA...Ju jutsu relies HEAVILY on Strength. leverage is very very important. But so is strength. Which is why my 3 star (we call them dan not star) black belt sensei beat the crap out of a 5 star black belt sensei. He was superior in strength. They had the exact same techniques, but strength plays an incredibly large role.

~wickerman~
I agree...One of the points to training is to make one's synapse faster and more accustomed to a technique so that eventually it is more of a reflex than a voluntary action.

Originally posted by Wickerman
Where in God's name do you get your information from? As a guy that's done Ju Jutsu for quite a while......that's not true at all. As ANY martial art, you have procedures, tehniques that are preset and you study them so long until you finally get so used to them that when faced with a certain situation you automatically do them. Jinzin having done wrestling, knows what i mean.
However, though tehnique-based, as is any MA...Ju jutsu relies HEAVILY on Strength. leverage is very very important. But so is strength. Which is why my 3 star (we call them dan not star) black belt sensei beat the crap out of a 5 star black belt sensei. He was superior in strength. They had the exact same techniques, but strength plays an incredibly large role.

~wickerman~ in Japanese Ju-Jitsu, its all BS , my friend owns a school, i have faced 2 of their black belts, mopp up the floor with em in grappling.

Originally posted by King KAM
in Japanese Ju-Jitsu, its all BS , my friend owns a school, i have faced 2 of their black belts, mopp up the floor with em in grappling.

The style doesn't make a man. It's the man that makes the style work. Do you understand? In fighting anyone can give anyone a hard time, it all just depends on the person training in that particular discipline.

Originally posted by Sentry
The style doesn't make a man. It's the man that makes the style work. Do you understand? In fighting anyone can give anyone a hard time, it all just depends on the person training in that particular discipline.
you dont fight very often....

Originally posted by King KAM
you dont fight very often....

why do you say this..I have to agree with him to some extent.

Originally posted by jinzin
why do you say this..I have to agree with him to some extent.
i hate bashing peoples disciplines but most of them are BS, Japanese Ju-Jitsu is one of them.

HAPKIDO!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,your hilarious!

i think ju-jitsu is a fine art when done properly...I've dabbled in it and found some of it to be most effective for certain situations..I have to agree with his assessment still..unless we're talking about (as i like to call them...) Mc. dojos....like the united studios of self defense..

Originally posted by jinzin
i think ju-jitsu is a fine art when done properly...I've dabbled in it and found some of it to be most effective for certain situations..I have to agree with his assessment still..unless we're talking about (as i like to call them...) Mc. dojos....like the united studios of self defense..
Japanese Ju-Jitsu doesnt work and mcdojo is a term used on Bullshido.net, i have 2 fights posted on there, amaetur, but whatever, and ummmmmmmmmm, man some stuff isnt going to work, and no matter how much "chi" mumbo jumbo is behind it, if they come at me sideways with that shit, ill slap the holy spirit right of them.....

how does it not work?..I've found many chin-na applications to work just fine... you must not have either been trained correctly in it's application.. or you have not yet encountered someone who has....

and...........


DAMMIT! SOMEONE RIPPED OFF MY TERM?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?!

Originally posted by jinzin
how does it not work?..I've found many chin-na applications to work just fine... you must not have either been trained correctly in it's application.. or you have not yet encountered someone who has....

and...........


DAMMIT! SOMEONE RIPPED OFF MY TERM?!?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! If someone is a big deal stronger then you then Japanese JJ doesnt work, because they can muscle out the leverage, and chi-is bs, lets just face it, please people!!!! I AM ONLY TRYING TO HELP YOU!

well if you're some sort of pathetic weakling then yeah it won't work against an extremely overpowering opponent..I was talking about on average though...not going by extremes.

Originally posted by jinzin
well if you're some sort of pathetic weakling then yeah it won't work against an extremely overpowering opponent..I was talking about on average though...not going by extremes.
how about you just skip Japanese JJ and do brazilian,.....id feel much better about you walking the streets alone.

i do a mixture of various martial arts...like I said..i only dabbled in JJJ (lol)....I practice chinese kung fu...

Originally posted by King KAM
in Japanese Ju-Jitsu, its all BS , my friend owns a school, i have faced 2 of their black belts, mopp up the floor with em in grappling.

In that case your friend's school, and his teaching skills as well as students must be crap....sorry to say it. You do realise that Ju Jutsu's been around a lot longer than Capoeira or whatever the hell you're supporting right? You also do realise that the US Army teaches its soldiers Ju Jutsu as do most countries.....right?
As do the SEALS, SAS, MOSSAD and CIA .......

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
In that case your friend's school, and his teaching skills as well as students must be crap....sorry to say it. You do realise that Ju Jutsu's been around a lot longer than Capoeira or whatever the hell you're supporting right? You also do realise that the US Army teaches its soldiers Ju Jutsu as do most countries.....right?
As do the SEALS, SAS, MOSSAD and CIA .......

~wickerman~ i said brazilian Jiu-Jitsu i didnt say a goddamn thing about capoeira, and i know more about REAL fighting then just about everyone on this goddam thread, so its like a porn star arguing with a buncha virgins about how sex feels.

oh yeah and marines do brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, my cousin is a drill sergeant.

Don't know if it was mentioned but heres some stuff on Frank:

"Frank Castle is well versed in the arts of warfare and hand-to-hand combat, his styles of choice being Ninjutsu, Shorin-Ryu, Hwarangdo, and Chin Na as well as unarmed combat training received in the military. An exceptional knife fighter who carries up to 3 ro 4 different types of edge weapons. Armed solely with conventional weapons and motivated by a fanatical hatred for criminals like those who murdered his family, the Punisher has single-handedly incapacitated up to a dozen well-armed and experienced opponents in a single encounter and escaped uninjured."

Originally posted by King KAM
i said brazilian Jiu-Jitsu i didnt say a goddamn thing about capoeira, and i know more about REAL fighting then just about everyone on this goddam thread, so its like a porn star arguing with a buncha virgins about how sex feels.

Sure you do honey, sure you do. Keep thinking that

As for your cousin....he can say whatever he pleases. He may be in a special unit or whatever. the US Army is trained in japanese ju jutsu.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by King KAM
you dont fight very often....

I beg to differ young man. I have an amateur boxing record of 14-1 and a amateur MMA record of 4-0. I also have competed in many Karate and Kenpo Tournaments in Hawaii, California, Nevada, Taiwan and the Philippines. Yeah baby, third world countries, where everything's full contact. I grew up on the mean streets of Hawaii were a small guy likes me regularly runs into large Samoan, Tongan, and Polynesian bullies all the time. Yeah, I've had a few scrapes.

I have studied varied disciplines through out my lifetime, that's like 20 years, and I simply learned that going around and bashing other people's arts are not accepted among traditionalists and MMA arena. Now that I reside in Nevada, MMA events like the UFC and King Of Cage is what I watch regularly. Most of those fighters there are very humble and show respect to other arts unlike yourself. I have found it fortunate to cross train in a multitude of styles like Muay Thai under Master Toddy, Tae Kwon Do under Master Heel Ih Cho, Savate and Maphilindo Silat under Guro Rick Tucci. All these styles have something to offer. Every style has their weak and strong points, but expressing your opinion of other styles may come back to bite you later in my life.

Heed my words young man. I met many a martial artist with a big mouth like yours, but in the end, someone always usually kicks the crap out of that person.