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I personally think this would be a fairly close fight. They would both fare the same in lightsabre combat I think, but Traya might have the edge in force powers.

What do you think?

Use the Search Button. . .

I did.

Its been done Kreia wins.

This is starting to piss me off, in the games there appears to be an overabundance of "OMG teh pwnage leet" characters. Perhaps KOTOR 3 should be toned down a bit more...

Ah, sorry if it has, I must have missed it.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
This is starting to piss me off, in the games there appears to be an overabundance of "OMG teh pwnage leet" characters. Perhaps KOTOR 3 should be toned down a bit more...

Use the search button find the thread, the reasons are good enough.

done before,kreia wins

I've realised. There is no need to post that.

What the hell is the deal with the "Been done before" police? Say it once.

And the search button actually sucks. I bet no one thought of that possibility. How many of you have actually used it?

I do use it. Search it two or three times with different keywords pertaining to the thread you want to make and it will work 99+% of the time.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I do use it. Search it two or three times with different keywords pertaining to the thread you want to make and it will work 99+% of the time.

My point. I've used it too, it rarely works like I want it to.

Originally posted by Fishy
Its been done Kreia wins.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
done before,kreia wins

bumpede

Going for Traya TBH.

There's no proof that Sidious can defeat a powerful dark-sider outside of his apprentices. And no, Darth Maul and his horns do not count as "powerful darksiders" .

So I'm glad the majority agree

Sidious thinks. Traya drops dead.

/thread

Traya drains unless Sidious has shown actual resistance to it...

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Traya drains unless Sidious has shown actual resistance to it...

Sheev utterly shits on Traya.

Palpatine smokes her in sabers. And I just assume someone as powerful as Sidious can defend against force drain so backing Sid

I doubt Palpatine can defend it. It just doesn't make sense that he'd include drain resistance as part of his repertoire. Which is fairly obvious, considering that only people who'd use against him were his apprentices, those of whom's academia is solely dictated by him. I mean, Maul wasn't even allowed Force lightning for gods sake. Sure, if he'd existed in a more competitive environment, where a planet sized store-house of Sith knowledge was readily available to him, he'd probably beat Traya. But in his own time, the only type of contest he'd be winning is a political election. Whereas Traya wins a duel of Force powers.

Sidious knows all of and creates Force techniques at a whim, he stomps Traya just like he would Vader or Dooku.

I don't remember either Dooku or Vader getting stomped by Sheev. TBH, he'd have moderate difficulty against either.

He choked both out, with ease, across the galaxy. That isn't taking into account his gripping Maul and Savage with ease as well.

Seeing as how his apprentices such as Dooku were discovering and studying their own holocrons, and underlings like Jerec had enough independence to search for ancient hidden nexuses, Sidious would be a fool not to have prepared defenses for a technique like drain so critical to sith history (Nihilus, etc). Of course, this is the same Sidious who had compiled an extensive library of "the Force in all its guises" following RotS, has been labeled the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history, and possessed a sufficient mastery of the Force to tip the balance towards the dark side just through meditation, conjure planet tearing storms, cause lightning storms just by the presence of his hologram, etc. The notion that a paranoid powerhouse like himself wouldn't be familiar with drain is ludicrous.

Not that this is even a question; the DE sourcebook literally says he's discovered all known powers.

From power scaling Traya to the Exile, then Nyriss, then Revan and then Vitiate, or by comparing their feats and accolades, Sidious incinerates Traya with a gesture.

Minor correction: the sourcebook says that it is believed the Emperor has mastered all the old powers, blah blah.

He still takes this old hag to the curb pretty decisively, though.

Sidious impregnates her with an evil, Dark Side baby.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Minor correction: the sourcebook says that it is believed the Emperor has mastered all the old powers, blah blah.

He still takes this old hag to the curb pretty decisively, though.

It isn't much a stretch to believe some truth in that quote, perhaps not ALL, but a pretty significant amount.

Between his own studies, what he gathered, what his Dark Force Adepts gathered which included forgotten and taboo Force Powers, which includes Force Drain. That quote shouldn't be too far off.

Mm well I don't think Palpatine would STOMP Vader and Dooku but it would be moderate difficulty. Their fights would be like the one between a bloodlusted Maul and Sidious after Savage gets beat down. Maul did pretty well tbh but Palpy just wrecks with the force. Dooku would actually do better than Vader I reckon

KEK, they both die horribly.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Mm well I don't think Palpatine would STOMP Vader and Dooku but it would be moderate difficulty. Their fights would be like the one between a bloodlusted Maul and Sidious after Savage gets beat down. Maul did pretty well tbh but Palpy just wrecks with the force. Dooku would actually do better than Vader I reckon

Why do you think either are in league with bloodlusted Maul?

Sidious vs. either apprentice would scratch oneshot territory.

1. Sidious vs. pre-vaapad Windu
2. Sidious vs. Maul and Savage at the same time (ragdolls from the start)
3. Orders of magnitude difference in feats

Plus Vader's weakness to lightning.

I could see peak Vader lasting some time but not putting up much of a challenge otherwise. Dooku dies instantly.

I seem to have angered the imperial guard.

Now Elli, baby, I seem to remember warning you about premature ejaculation. That is, if you're going to use your best pre-canned material in one go, rather than playing with it conservatively, you're going to fall flat on your face and literally kissing the heel of my boots. So as a preemptive warning for our next love-making sesh, you should try mingling your premises here and there in your talk, and maybe even get me to admit some of them before the finale. Seriously. It can be done, given that you're subtle enough or sufficiently intelligent to pull it off. Of course, if you are going to blow your load too quickly, you'd better have some compact taking points.

That's a hint btw - try harder.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seeing as how his apprentices such as Dooku were discovering and studying their own holocrons, and underlings like Jerec had enough independence to search for ancient hidden nexuses, Sidious would be a fool not to have prepared defenses for a technique like drain so critical to sith history (Nihilus, etc).

Have you ever heard a common saying, something that's been repeated by philosophers of old; and made popular by Immanuel Kant - that something may be correct theory, but it is of no use in practice. Now assuming your premise is watertight (which it isn't) ; it would mean generously giving Palaptine a drain-resistance feint that he's never made use of. So providing I'm kind enough to permit that, Palaptine has still yet to pass the test of practicality. Considering this is a person who's never successfully rebuked an opposing expression of Force, wether it be a Telekinectic attack on his home Nexus or two inexperienced Force wielders severing control over the "universe busting" Force storms, he probably won't fair to well against a drain-user in live action. Hell, this is a guy who couldn't predict his own apprentice wanting to throw him into a reactor shaft. I suppose all that non-lethal lightning used to torture Luke took up too much concentration.

Not that Jerec changes Palpatine's modus operandi as Emperor before Sith warrior, given that a trainee Kyle Katarn could humble him.



Which in the grand scheme of things, Ellimist, is completely pathetic compared to the planet sized knowledge-bases of old. More Sith recordings were lost than Bane's lineage could hope to retrieve - and some more of that was lost within the line itself (Gravid). And again, your speculating at the powers Palpatine might use based on the amount of information he's gathered. Which is hardly logical.



I've already delt with this, by admitting Traya would loose a general election in the politico sphere. You see, I'm not all that unreasonable towards Sheev. And if it helps, he's probably a greater master of evil than her also.



And you might want to explain how his meditation skills will help him in live combat, much less resist her drain powers. What? Is he going to tip the Force-scales even further towards the darkside, and in the middle of a fight? A feint that would have no genuine affect against someone versed with Dark powers - possibly even boosting her.



Already dealt with.



Wrong. The notion that somewhat of a powerhouse, living in an era of schlubs will be showcasing anything more than the displayed abilties he's been given, is the ludicrous notion. It might as well be part of Ellimist's own fan-fiction where Palaptine doesn't loose the half of his fights and can actually hold a candle to his bygone predecessors.



Already dealt with, and by none other than Giddybeans himself. Then one has to consider where the Dark Empire source-book stands among the continuity. As one of the oldest publications of it's kind (1993), the concept of 'Ancient Sith' wasn't even a sperm in it's daddies nutsack. One can logically infer that it doesn't apply to all (or any) continuity succeeding it. Given that there was no Sadow, no Ragnos, No Kun, No sith Sorcery or any other abilities from the long list of esoteric techniques that satiate the mythos. It can be discarded. Not that the text was stating a fact either with - "it is believed".



Given that you think Palaptine is a universal-destroying entity, i'm not surprised at the non-logic you'll stoop to when faced with a heretic such as I.

Traya still stomps him btw.

If you want me to lower myself to responding to your incoherent ramblings, you need to commit to actually continuing the debate for more than a single reply. You decided to conveniently bow out of our "is Sidious the GOAT" discussion with a snappy one-liner, and I have no assurances that you won't do the same here.

You're not such an intellectual powerhouse that people will let you Tempest-troll your way out of things, darling.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If you want me to lower myself to responding to your incoherent ramblings, you need to commit to actually continuing the debate for more than a single reply. You decided to conveniently bow out of our "is Sidious the GOAT" discussion with a snappy one-liner, and I have no assurances that you won't do the same here.

You're not such an intellectual powerhouse that people will let you Tempest-troll your way out of things, darling.

Coolstorybro

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If you want me to lower myself to responding to your incoherent ramblings, you need to commit to actually continuing the debate for more than a single reply. You decided to conveniently bow out of our "is Sidious the GOAT" discussion with a snappy one-liner, and I have no assurances that you won't do the same here.

You're not such an intellectual powerhouse that people will let you Tempest-troll your way out of things, darling.

Comparing me to Battlemaster/NowYouRemember/Diet-Nai is one of the greatest insults ever lobbed in my direction.

Umm... I'm actaully one of Kulvax's socks, didn't Ant tell you ?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Comparing me to Battlemaster/NowYouRemember/Diet-Nai is one of the greatest insults ever lobbed in my direction.

B-b-but m-Lord, I suggested that you were an intellectual powerhouse, and could get away with it!

Even my most blunt insults cannot help but contain praise towards Your Majesty, and this is no exeception.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
B-b-but m-Lord, I suggested that you were an intellectual powerhouse, and could get away with it!

Even my most blunt insults cannot help but contain praise towards Your Majesty, and this is no exeception.

I don't even like the insinuation that Diet-Nai is attempting to mimic me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't even like the insinuation that Diet-Nai is attempting to mimic me.

There is no need to be upset

Just where do you have Sidious and Luke, Ziggy? Traya stomping is a pretty serious claim. And on what basis does Traya stomp Sheev?

You're dodging my questions. Where do you rank Sheev and Luke - which characters do you reckon are closest to them in skill and power?

You also didn't address how Traya would win. Her being cooler and stronger are unsupported statements. Through what means does she beat Sidious, let alone stomp?

Why are you even entertaining cancer, Nova?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Why are you even entertaining cancer, Nova?

I'm trying to draw out his argument, because he obviously isn't keen on giving one as of yet.

Because there is no argument to be made.

I know, which is why I'm curious to see how this could possibly be argued.

So you want to see someone make an argument about something that you can't make an argument for?

Originally posted by SunRazer
You're dodging my questions.

I'm not sure what you're expecting of me here. I've given you a perfectly sound and philosophical answer to why I don't believe Sheev can win against the assumption that he can. Which is the inherent problem with assuming he's the most powerful. There is no evidence that he's stronger and it's only assumed to be true. So all that's left here, is for fanatics to beg the question sans argument.



I am not going to answer a loaded question that will lead to continuous "goal-post" moving . I wish to discuss the dueling prowess of Traya and Sheev against one another. If I had answered which characters I believe to be above him, then it gives you the opportunity to make these points more and more difficult (or diverse) till eventually I must fail. If nothing else, you will eventually find a subject that I'm not up on and declare your stake. Likewise, Luke's powers can be addressed somewhere else. They have nothing to do with this debate.



You've been ignoring my arguments from the last page. I've argued against Sheev's competency as a combatant, and given these inadequacies (or defensive lapses) I wouldn't be surprised If Traya could just rag-doll him. If you want to argue this, you can either make your own case or continue where the Ellimist started off.

Yoda is far more powerful than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him, Amped Mace Windu is a far better physical and martial combatant than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him.

Traya amped by a geyser of dark side energy however, failed to defeat a Meetra Surik who 1.had fatigued from fighting through numerous pairs of Storm Beasts, a legion of elite Sith and Darth Sion, and 2.was constantly physically suffering from the grip of a 'crushing' gravity well, was forced to use constant breath control so as to survive the innumerable gas vents inside and outside the Trayus Academy proper and was mentally suffering from the agony of the spirits of the dead.

Yeh, Sidious stomps.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yoda is far more powerful than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him,

Correction - it is your personal conviction that Yoda is her superior, and that the disparity is large. So it is once again, begging the question. Do you have a Source that literally confirms Yoda > Exile? The only thing I can think of is a quote from the very early 2000's, which is predating even Biowares oldest machinations. Then we have the Jedi Path, with Yoda coming up short against two other Jedi masters in a measurement of raw Force-stout. Given his title, the Jedi Grandmaster is more powerful in a leadership sense, but all else is mindless speculation.



No. A supposedly 'amped' Mace Windu, left Palaptiney on the floor and parted from his blade. Sure, he wins through Anakin's interference, but is otherwise defeated. Not that this is at all relevant with what I'm trying to convey. Sidious can take the B-team off guard as much as he wants, and even stalemate the mighty; although possibly out-of-prime, Yoda. But how will that help him against powerful darksiders using attacks like drain, of which he has little - to no experience dealing with? This is also considering he's not planning to fight against such intrusions. All of this pulled together is a premise that requires a little non-bias thought , which is not the same as an ABC-paradigm seemingly crafted by DBZ fanatics.



Well first of all Rayla, I've never heard of Mace or Yoda fighting legions of of Trayas Academy Sith-Maruaders. Warriors who were presumably empowering themselves with Dark Rage, affording super-human qualities that are beyond the average Jedi. Not forgetting Sion, who repeatedly makes Maul surviving bisection look like a joke, and has more experience fighting powerful Jedi from era's of actual warriors. Now given that Sion is showing up Maul's premier feat, and has experience dating back to Exar Kun's hayday, we probably have an individual that is more powerful, more skilled and more rage-fueled than Maul himself. The latter of whom is giving Sidious some difficulty in the saber department - on repeated occasions. But again, this is juts me entertaining your ABC ideas and not regarding the circumstances affiliated with them. You might ask why someone like the Exile can fight Traya so efficiently? And much like Vaapad's super-conducting loop, Exile's immunity to sith-techniques like drain was a strong deciding factors in her battle.



Lovely. I wonder why you're opinions are so strong on the matter, given that I've seen little evidence that Sidious wins let alone stomps. Do you think that winning an argument like this will give you the 'kudos' among piers who have little respect for you otherwise. Do you think of this argument as a low hanging piece of fruit, that you can pick up with out much effort or exertion. If so, just remember that it is Ziggy dangling that piece of fruit above your head, and he's not going to make it easy for you to catch.

What do you mean by supposedly? Not trying to dispute what you're claiming. Am just curious.

You can stop using arguments I pioneered now, mkay?

Yoda is stated to be the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face, Mace Windu is essentially the ultimate anti-Sith Jedi warrior.

Neither of them could defeat Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Well first of all RaylaThat's a name I haven't heard in a while, I'm intrigued friend.

If you haven't figured out who that is yet, for shame.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's a name I haven't heard in a while, I'm intrigued friend.

Same. I thought I was the only one who used that name. So strange.

mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
You can stop using arguments I pioneered now, mkay?

Yoda is stated to be the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face, Mace Windu is essentially the ultimate anti-Sith Jedi warrior.

Neither of them could defeat Darth Sidious. Just to play devil's advocate, how do we know being the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face necessarily translates into him being the most powerful combatant as far as combat is concerned? Are there not other ways to be a powerful weapon against the forces of darkness? After all, Luke saved the day and defeated the dark side in ROTJ not by his skills with a lightsaber or his command of the force, but by his conviction to the light. A quality that helped steer Vader back towards the right path. Luke was certainly did the most damage against the dark by his refusal to fight, thus was certainly as his most "powerful" then at that point of ROTJ.

Perhaps similar reasoning could be applied to Yoda. After all, the green avatar of light had other skills outside of combat. He has trained and nurtured numerous Jedi into their development towards the light. If not for him, Luke Skywalker would've never become a full fledged Jedi.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You can stop using arguments I pioneered now, mkay?

My ideas come from the source material, and not froufrou titled fan-fictions (Galaxy Guide 14 anyone?). So our arguments are not the same. So far, the only thing you've 'pioneered' is the fine art of forging quotes. Other than that, there's the strange ability your postings do to my head, which makes me read them back in the voice of Chris Crocker.



Nothing more than your blind faith in narrative text. Have you considered the source it's coming from? The narrative mode dictating the telling of a story; and the succession of events is given in chronological order? Have you considered the potential implications such a quote taken at absolute face-value? Yoda - the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known... even moreso than the daughter?



It's become a habit of mine to meet superficial talking points with equally superficial retorts, rather than refuting them by setting forth their captious nature. But in this case I can't be asked. If you're not going to argue properly, you can fondle my nutsack.

So you concede, nicely done.