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you know the drill...

This is a bit overkill. . .Yoda alone could take Luke.

yah..both Mace and Yoda could solo luke..together it's like.

luke ignites saber. green/purple blurs. luke falls dead in so many pieces he's no longer recognizable.

and this is totally seroius.

Eh, Luke would put up some resistance only for cinematic purposes. I think the fight would look like ESB Luke versus vader. Luke puts up some resistance, but you know he's goin down.

i honestly doubt even some resistance, besides maybe putting his saber up while thinking "crap, i wish i knew at least something about being a Jedi".

imo...mace and yoda could even solo luke with 1 hand, and no Force powers such as push and that.

this is so overpowered...i'm just going to stop posting here even. because it's such a laughing matter to think of luke trying to fight these two.

maybe a Yoda vs ROTJ luke and mace, or mace vs yoda and rotj luke..but not this.

Originally posted by BlackVortex
i honestly doubt even some resistance, besides maybe putting his saber up while thinking "crap, i wish i knew at least something about being a Jedi".

imo...mace and yoda could even solo luke with 1 hand, and no Force powers such as push and that.

this is so overpowered...i'm just going to stop posting here even. because it's such a laughing matter to think of luke trying to fight these two.

maybe a Yoda vs ROTJ luke and mace, or mace vs yoda and rotj luke..but not this.

You do realize this is NJO Luke, right?

NJO Luke could take either of them, but together, he would go down, probably killing Mace in the precess.

k, sorry about that.

however, my opinion stands. except maybe now Luke parries Mace's first swing. as he probably wont even see the blur we know to be Yoda.

i honestly dislike the whole NJO luke thing...and don't get me started on it. perhaps he has some skill...but what's considered mastery in Jedi ways for the OT/NJO...is like...simple training in PT in my opinion.

You guys are truly sad when it comes to NJO Luke, you anger has blinded you. I would give him a fair chance of winning.

Despite how ridiculously overpowered NJO Luke is, and how much I hate him, and how much I like Windu, Luke would win.

alright, so i take back what i said about not posting anymore. :P

consider this...

NJO Luke...he's only been training from like...16 was it? maybe older when he first touched a lightsaber?

by that time Mace and Yoda would both have been not only Padawans, but possibly Knights, and both able fighters.

Yoda has 800 years experience beyond that.
Mace has created and mastered Vaapad, and is a Jedi Master on the Council.

yah, Luke may be the new Master of the NJO...but that's because he just came up and was the only Jedi around, he knows more than others. he's a Master by new standards, and the need for one.

for the sake of making an objective view i'll say this..

NJO luke could probably fight it out with these two. tough for him, very tough. but Yoda and Mace will both be aggressive. Mace with Vaapad is going to take luke, and yoda being so quick and jumpy, will keep luke busy. luke wont have the chance to go on the offensive really. he'll just be keeping himself alive as long as he can in my opinion.

i don't know luke's style either, i'll say that. so perhaps if someone knows they could post that here. but mace/yoda's style will keep luke real busy.

Let me give you some of Luke's achievments and we will see who is better.

Defeated Vader
Defeated Sidious
Defeated Joruus(A clone of a very powerful Jedi Master)
Defeated Luuke(His own clone)
Defeated Shimrra(Yuuzhan Vong Overlord)
Defeated Many Nightsisters(They as a group could overpower Jedi Masters. They are pretty powerful.)
Defeated Jensaarai(a force-group that is pretty powerful.)
Defeated Lord Nyax


Got many of the teachings from the Chu'unthor.
Got teaching from some secret Jedi Library.
Studied for a while from Bass's Holocron.

Killed several THOUSAND Yuuzhan Vong in one fight.


That isn't even all of it. I have thought about this more, and I think it could go either way. Luke has a fair chance though.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You guys are truly sad when it comes to NJO Luke, you anger has blinded you. I would give him a fair chance of winning.

No, I hate NJO for being ridiculously overpowered as he is. However, I do give him his props. To be fair, a lot of his accomplishments are only put in perspective because he's one of the few good force users of his time.

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, I hate NJO for being ridiculously overpowered as he is. However, I do give him his props. To be fair, a lot of his accomplishments are only put in perspective because he's one of the few good force users of his time.

Kyp Durron, Kyle Katarn, Jacen Solo, Corran Horn, Ganner Rhysode could stand beside many of the Masters from the OT. Kyp is probably better than half the Council members in the PT. Your underestimating the NJO.

I'm sorry but I have seem to have forgotten how everyone came to the conclusion NJO Luke was deemed ridiculously overpowered.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Let me give you some of Luke's achievments and we will see who is better.

Defeated Vader
Defeated Sidious
Defeated Joruus(A clone of a very powerful Jedi Master)
Defeated Luuke(His own clone)
Defeated Shimrra(Yuuzhan Vong Overlord)
Defeated Many Nightsisters(They as a group could overpower Jedi Masters. They are pretty powerful.)
Defeated Jensaarai(a force-group that is pretty powerful.)
Defeated Lord Nyax


Got many of the teachings from the Chu'unthor.
Got teaching from some secret Jedi Library.
Studied for a while from Bass's Holocron.

Killed several THOUSAND Yuuzhan Vong in one fight.


That isn't even all of it. I have thought about this more, and I think it could go either way. Luke has a fair chance though.

He conquered the Empire (in battle) - and helped put peace between them. Though it was the entire Jedi Order, Luke, Leia, Han, and some powerful Jedi Master with the last name of Brand to put an end to DE Sidious.

Um...well, both times - Luke was one of the reasons Sidious was defeated. So yeah, I guess that counts.

Anyways, NJO Luke wins.

Originally posted by Lord Simus
I'm sorry but I have seem to have forgotten how everyone came to the conclusion NJO Luke was deemed ridiculously overpowered.

Look. Sidious is my favorite character, but his ability to chuck people from one planet to the next and consume fleets of ships with his own Force powers is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered.

Sidious and Yoda -- even though I hate Sidious's style in ROTS -- just seems right for the amount of believable. If you watch these guys, you know that they're both the daddy's (lol) of either side of the Force.

They seemed to express the proper amount of power for paragons of either side of the Force.

List of Ridiculously Overpowered Characters (in no order)
------------------------------------------------------------------
- NJO Luke
- Darth Revan
- Exar Kun
- Marka Ragnos
- DE Sidious
- Ulic
- Darth Nihlius

These SIX are some off the top of my head that are WAY too powerful. Anyone who can chuck a DAMN star at their opponent, zap 'em across time and space, or destroy a damn planet is WAY too overpowered.

Then why does no one complain about Kun or Revan being ridiculously overpowered?

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Look. Sidious is my favorite character, but his ability to chuck people from one planet to the next and consume fleets of ships with his own Force powers is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered.

Sidious and Yoda -- even though I hate Sidious's style in ROTS -- just seems right for the amount of believable. If you watch these guys, you know that they're both the daddy's (lol) of either side of the Force.

They seemed to express the proper amount of power for paragons of either side of the Force.

List of Ridiculously Overpowered Characters (in no order)
------------------------------------------------------------------
- NJO Luke
- Darth Revan
- Exar Kun
- Marka Ragnos
- DE Sidious
- Ulic
- Darth Nihlius

These SIX are some off the top of my head that are WAY too powerful. Anyone who can chuck a DAMN star at their opponent, zap 'em across time and space, or destroy a damn planet is WAY too overpowered.

I fail to see how you can include the Ancient Sith, like Ragnos or even Kun, as being "ridiculously overpowered." These characters were DESIGNED to be barons of the dark side: they were supposed to be figures of titanic strength, the pinnacle of evil and power. They are the epitome of Evil strength of immense proportion.

NJO Luke just has this "unifying" force, they chuck out years of SW history for the sake of having a foe that's "not part of the force," and where Luke can do things no one else has even bothered to attempt, it really does become ridiculous in that sense.

And you didn't count very well .

So hes overpowered because he uses Sith powers.

Sorry, lol, seven. I'm in a hurry.

Still, Illustrious - throwing a damn star at an enemy or doing crap like that is simply too ridiculously overpowered for my likings. If anything, they should be simply a little - or 50 percent - stronger than ROTS Sidious and Yoda - who were the most powerful of either side at the time.

Originally posted by Lord Simus
So hes overpowered because he uses Sith powers.

No, he's overpowered because they threw the rulebook out just for him.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Sorry, lol, seven. I'm in a hurry.

Still, Illustrious - throwing a damn star at an enemy or doing crap like that is simply too ridiculously overpowered for my likings. If anything, they should be simply a little - or 50 percent - stronger than ROTS Sidious and Yoda - who were the most powerful of either side at the time.

If they were only a "little" stronger than Yoda or Sidious, they wouldn't have been able to do what they did. It's like saying what if Hercules was only a "little" stronger than the average guy, not much of a story to tell.

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, he's overpowered because they threw the rulebook out just for him.



If they were only a "little" stronger than Yoda or Sidious, they wouldn't have been able to do what they did. It's like saying what if Hercules was only a "little" stronger than the average guy, not much of a story to tell.

Yeah, um...look. You may not like Sidious -- I thought you liked Yoda, but lol, he was hardly AVERAGE. Neither of them were.

Originally posted by Illustrious
No, he's overpowered because they threw the rulebook out just for him


You mean for not following the Jedi Code! The code was dead forgotten for 2 decades by the time ANH came around. So he didn't know you couldn't use the force to attack.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Yeah, um...look. You may not like Sidious -- I thought you liked Yoda, but lol, he was hardly AVERAGE. Neither of them were.

It was used metaphorically. These people were designed to fit a role that required titanic ability and powers, why do you think that the Ancient Sith were constantly fighting each other? The moral there is that bad, no matter how powerful, never wins.

NJO Luke is overpowered for a completely different reason, he's got the rulebook thrown out just so he can be uniquely powerful. Yoda and Sidious aren't "average" per se, but they don't have the earth shaking, star crushing power of the ancient Sith for good reason.

I dunno. Like I said, that's WAY too powerful. Sidious and Yoda were above average Sith Lords and Jedi Masters. Sidious is the most powerful Sith of modern times. Yoda was the most powerful Jedi of modern times - until NJO Luke.

I don't like to see people hurl stars at one another. You get into DBZ and Anime crap. People blowing up mountains and instant killing people with the damn Force.

I about ripped my DE comic when I saw what Sidious could do.

Originally posted by Illustrious
It was used metaphorically. These people were designed to fit a role that required titanic ability and powers, why do you think that the Ancient Sith were constantly fighting each other? The moral there is that bad, no matter how powerful, never wins.

NJO Luke is overpowered for a completely different reason, he's got the rulebook thrown out just so he can be uniquely powerful. Yoda and Sidious aren't "average" per se, but they don't have the earth shaking, star crushing power of the ancient Sith for good reason.

Exactly. C'mon Illustrious. You mean to tell me that the ability to hurl a star or eat the Force off of a planet does NOT sound a little overpowered to you?

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Exactly. C'mon Illustrious. You mean to tell me that the ability to hurl a star or eat the Force off of a planet does NOT sound a little overpowered to you?

You mean to tell me that a couple "above average" force users would threaten the galaxy?

Of course they are meant to be legendarily powerful foes. They're not "ridiculously overpowered," they are powered for what the role requires.

Sidious is an exception because he had VERY favorable conditions.

I think this thread is horrible. Honestly, Yoda would take him while having something to eat, aswell as mace. Luke wouldn't even have 10 minutes after he engaged in combat, most likely not even 5. He could never take the two in melee.

No, and I'll argue that.

Sidious's Force powers and skill with the Dark side were not the real reasons that he took over the galaxy. He used his genius, his skill. He used his strength in the Dark Side to simply shield himself. The rest of his plan was executed through manipulation and an intellect greater than most.

The role required was, YES, a powerful role. But they are overpowered where they don't have any weaknesses. For example. Anakin - before Dooku - seemed to be nearly unbeatable in a fight. He was a force of nature and was very powerful. But he had a weakness. He was easily used and manipulated into becoming arrogant and hotheaded.

His enemies used that.

I can't pinpoint a precise level of weakness on NJO Luke or Revan. Then you have Marka Ragnos who held an iron-clad grip over his Sith Empire, and only relinquished it when he decided to just die.

EVERYONE - Sith Lords and Jedi Masters - needs to have a WEAKNESS.

Sidious's weakness:
- Cowardice
- Arrogance

Anakin's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Temper

Yoda's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Blinded eyes (not anatomically speaking)

Mace's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Blinded eyes (not anatomically speaking)

To me, every single character in the Star Wars universe needs to have a weakness. For example. If you can't outfight Marka, talk about his mom and he breaks down.

Ya get what I mean?

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
No, and I'll argue that.

Sidious's Force powers and skill with the Dark side were not the real reasons that he took over the galaxy. He used his genius, his skill. He used his strength in the Dark Side to simply shield himself. The rest of his plan was executed through manipulation and an intellect greater than most.

The role required was, YES, a powerful role. But they are overpowered where they don't have any weaknesses. For example. Anakin - before Dooku - seemed to be nearly unbeatable in a fight. He was a force of nature and was very powerful. But he had a weakness. He was easily used and manipulated into becoming arrogant and hotheaded.

His enemies used that.

I can't pinpoint a precise level of weakness on NJO Luke or Revan. Then you have Marka Ragnos who held an iron-clad grip over his Sith Empire, and only relinquished it when he decided to just die.

EVERYONE - Sith Lords and Jedi Masters - needs to have a WEAKNESS.

Sidious's weakness:
- Cowardice
- Arrogance

Anakin's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Temper

Yoda's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Blinded eyes (not anatomically speaking)

Mace's weakness:
- Arrogance
- Blinded eyes (not anatomically speaking)

To me, every single character in the Star Wars universe needs to have a weakness. For example. If you can't outfight Marka, talk about his mom and he breaks down.

Ya get what I mean?

Weaknesses are all relative. I'm sure Marka had areas where he was weak, notably his reluctance to attack the Republic and expand the Sith Empire, but nobody was strong or smart enough, to exploit his weakness and dethrone him.

In the same whim that nobody was strong or smart enough to exploit Sidious' weakness until Luke came along.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Look. Sidious is my favorite character, but his ability to chuck people from one planet to the next and consume fleets of ships with his own Force powers is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered.

Sidious and Yoda -- even though I hate Sidious's style in ROTS -- just seems right for the amount of believable. If you watch these guys, you know that they're both the daddy's (lol) of either side of the Force.

They seemed to express the proper amount of power for paragons of either side of the Force.

List of Ridiculously Overpowered Characters (in no order)
------------------------------------------------------------------
- NJO Luke
- Darth Revan
- Exar Kun
- Marka Ragnos
- DE Sidious
- Ulic
- Darth Nihlius

These SIX are some off the top of my head that are WAY too powerful. Anyone who can chuck a DAMN star at their opponent, zap 'em across time and space, or destroy a damn planet is WAY too overpowered.

How is Revan overpowered?

Originally posted by Rand al'Thor
How is Revan overpowered?

Good question...

uhm... his fans overpower him?

Originally posted by Illustrious
Good question...

uhm... his fans overpower him?

Aside from that. Hey I'm one of his fans (one of the few that doesn't overpower him)

*cough*Emperor Revan*cough*Frobo

Well, didn't someone keep spouting how he could take Exar and was also smarter than he is and was GOD and was the heart of the Force?

Maybe that was one of his fans...

honestly, i hate the NJO, and everything added on after ROTJ pretty much.

oldschool Jedi were good, training from very early childhood, following the light side of the Force, living true to the Code, not overpowered but obviously better than most people.

the whole thing after ROTJ in my opinion gets silly.

luke breaks tradition #1. becomes a Jedi when he's REALLY old (not in years, but compared to when most began training). and it seems all the Jedi he train follow the same path because that's just how it is.

i have to ask this..anakin starts training at what...7? 8? and he gets trained in the light side of the Force, and with the Code, and everything that's actually Jedi-like. and yet he's still too old, and ends up being Darth Vader.

now Luke is about 10 years older, but that's just fine now...and he can become a Jedi Master that does a whole bunch of feats no one's ever heard of? silly.

so now we've created this crazy powerful Jedi-punk that's simply there because no one else is. now he needs an enemy, so let's say this race comes in from no where with a gigantic army...enough of a challenge. oh wait, we made Luke too powerful, let's add to the army and say the Force doesn't affect them, sabers can't immediately damage their armor, and they have so many things better than the New Republic that it's basically screwed.

oh well, NJO Luke needs to be ridicolously(sp?) powerful so he finds away to defeat these guys....yay.

Originally posted by Lord Simus
Originally posted by Illustrious
No, he's overpowered because they threw the rulebook out just for him


You mean for not following the Jedi Code! The code was dead forgotten for 2 decades by the time ANH came around. So he didn't know you couldn't use the force to attack.

If NJO Luke uses the darkside, he goes against everything he stood for in that throne room in ROTJ, as he cast down his weapon and said "I'll never join the dark side. I'm a jedi, like my father before me."

The idea that Luke would consider using dark side powers (NJO) or that he would join evil even under pretense (DE) totally undermines his character and makes him no longer the hero. Only, he gains the luck and mega powers of a hero that people often live themselves through. Note how he always wins.

and the dead Code thing. surely Obi-wan knew it. wouldn't he have taught Luke that first thing in his training? or Yoda even? Yoda probably could've spent months teaching Luke the Code...did Lucas screw up? or are we assuming something?

if the 2 most powerful remaining Jedi both have time with Luke to train..and don't tell him the Code first off...there's something wrong.

Well, it's here that I give Eu dislikers some ground; post-ROTJ EU (Which is the majority) is poorly written and goes against what the movies were about.

The PT era novels are better, with the exception being perhaps Jedi Trial (Which was like Starship Troopers meets Anakin Skywalker minus any good interaction). They are also more recent, and they blend in better with the movies because they directly compliment them, not build off onto their own.

Eu before the PR era isn't too bad. Sure, the Force users are exotic and have amazing powers, but it's surviveable. At least they stick to the focus of the series, which is good triumphs over evil in the Force.

That book, something about Danotooine I didn;t like. I think there should be a list of books not to read.

Originally posted by BlackVortex
oldschool Jedi were good, training from very early childhood, following the light side of the Force, living true to the Code, not overpowered but obviously better than most people.

Wrong. What do you call "oldschool" here ? The Jedi before the PT were not trained from childhood on (Ruusan reformation) - have a look at Exar Kun, the Quel-Droma brothers or Nomi Sunrider.



He became a Jedi when he was 19 - you call that really old ? Their is a little problem here in the EU. The majority of the past-ROTJ stuff was released before the PT came out therefore the authors had no information that Jedi were trained from childhood on because this idea was introduced with TPM for the first time. This is why all the past-ROTJ Jedi (and those from pre-Battle of Ruusan time areas) were not trained from infancy on.



It doesn't have anything to do with what age your start training if you will join the Dark Side. Dooku was trained from infancy on and still ended up being Darth Tyranus.
And I don't see where people have a philosophical problem with the post-ROTJ novels (I have some logic problems with them): The whole story of the films is that Anakin falls to the dark side and is delivered from the dark side by Luke.
Did anybody notice here that Luke used his anger to overcome Vader ? Did anybody realize that Mace used his aggressive feelings for lightsaber combat ? So you might think what you want but Lucas himself introduced the idea that a Jedi might use his darker feelings to do good - one have to do what is necessary without crossing some lines.

Just ask yourself if Luke trained from infancy on could have defeated Vader ? We saw that he only defeated Vader because of using his emotions but - after doing what was needed - keeping himself under control (not joining the dark side). So...would he use dark side powers or emotions to do what has to be done - yes...that is part of his character.



This is called dramatic necessity and now your point being ? I could argue through the entire history of the SW universe that people are too powerful - at least NJO Luke has the best arguments to be the "force god" of an universe that was created to tell the story of his family. You have to keep in mind that this is the son of the chosen one after 30 years of Jedi training. Imagine Anakin after 3 decades of Jedi training (so another 16 years from ROTS on) - he would be ridiculously powerful.

Back to the topic: Yoda and Mace together might be able to take NJO Luke but I think Mace will get killed in the process.

If Mace gets killed in the process, Yoda's screwed.

yes, i meant PT. and that's interesting..i guess i've heard about the pre-PT jedi being trained then..just never studied it much. i guess you're right there.


and i understand your other points, and yes, i see some pre-pt that are way powerful. i just don't like the NJO luke thing that much. there's a lot of reasons.

you say he's the best candidate as the chosen one's son...well the chosen one himself didn't reach this type of power, and that was with much more training than luke...so how does luke come off getting it? technically, he's like any other person now, he was born normal, and then started training from the beginning like anyone else.

oh well, point of this thread, i don't think luke would have the time to use any super-powers he has, and i doubt his saber skills, while possibly good, could stand up to both Mace and Yoda.

Originally posted by BlackVortex
you say he's the best candidate as the chosen one's son...well the chosen one himself didn't reach this type of power, and that was with much more training than luke...so how does luke come off getting it? technically, he's like any other person now, he was born normal, and then started training from the beginning like anyone else.


He had more training than Anakin. Anakin was trained from age 9 to 22 / 23. That are 14 years of training at maximum. Luke (in NJO times) hat 30 years of "practice" and he was almost constantly in some battle situations. And Anakin didn't reach that kind of power because he lost a lot of his potential (actually 60 % at least) in the battle with Obi-Wan on Mustafar because having his legs and arm cut off.

And please...technically Luke is not like any other person. Actually he is 50-75 % Anakin and therefore 25-56,25 % the force itself.



Well...Luke looked like wielding 20 lightsabers at once and he had enough skills to:
a) waste thousands of Yuuzhan Vong defeating 7 slayers in melee combat only
b) match the Supreme Overlord who is the best fighter of a warrior race

Erm...I guess he could stand up to Mace or Yoda.

Not to mention, he he's got his own little green lightning. . .

-cough- Blue-white lightning looks cooler.

Indeed it does, and as for this thread. I dunno, this is an awesome match-up. The ultimate Jedi Master vs. the little green moster and the "bad motherf*cker" Jedi. Could go either way.

This is ridiculous. NJO is ridiculous. Green lightning? Please. . .Luke gets owned by Yoda and Windu. His lightsaber duelling skills are nothing compared to;

1. Yoda

2. Mace Windu

3. Count Dooku

4. Obi-Wan Kenobi

5. Makashi

In this instance, Makashi, I must say that that is an incredibly foolish remark. He is superior to every single one of them, as much as it pains me to say.

How? I give him props for being a badass and being Vader but. . .I fail to believe in this NJO nonsense.

Green lightning... Soon he will be waving a rainbow-lightcrossbow while shooting purpe balls of death from his hands at the same time, he moves the planet he's on backwards in order to go back in time.

Originally posted by Sesse
Green lightning... Soon he will be waving a rainbow-lightcrossbow while shooting purpe balls of death from his hands at the same time, he moves the planet he's on backwards in order to go back in time.

But seriously NJO is nonsense and Yoda and Windu win the battle.

If any of you have read any of the journal of the whills, you will no that the first man aware and could feel the force was: the SKYWALKER. He was the first man the force chose to show its self to, therefore trusting him beyond any other. This shows that the force is insanely good in anakin and Luke. As quoted by Resh, the first Whill Jedi and many others "The only thing that limits how the force can be used is the user." Luke was a direct decendant of The Skywalker and his 'grandfather' was the force, thus he and anakin were the most able users of the force there ever could be. If he really believed he could Luke do anything. I dont like it cos i think Mace and Yoda should win but Luke has it.

lol... that kinda explains alot of Georges storytelling.


Luke: 75% of his genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 25 %from human (Padme):
Leia: 25% of her genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 75 %from human (Padme);

Should Luke and Leia be put together, their child would be the ultimate force-wielder ever seen.

Their child would have 25 % force genes from Leia and 75% from Luke. That would make him/her 100% force compatible. He should be named: Lance

Damnit. HAN Ruined the damn prophecy!

"Son of the suns" referred to their child. As the universe was constructed around Lukes and Leias story.

Definition for sun: " A star that is the *center* of a planetary system. " or "A sunlike object, representation, or design. " Mystery solved.

Originally posted by Sesse
lol... that kinda explains alot of Georges storytelling.


Luke: 75% of his genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 25 from human (Padme):
Leia: 25 of her genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 75 from human (Padme);

Should Luke and Leia be put together, their child would be the ultimate force-wielder ever seen.

Their child would have 25 % force genes from Leia and 75% from Luke. That would make him/her 100% force compatible. He should be named: Lance

Hmm Anakin wasn't pure force either.

And how the hell would Luke b 75% force, he would just like most children be a combination of his mother and his father, about 50 50.

Originally posted by Sesse
lol... that kinda explains alot of Georges storytelling.


Luke: 75% of his genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 25 from human (Padme):
Leia: 25 of her genes were directly from the force (Anakin) and 75 from human (Padme);

Should Luke and Leia be put together, their child would be the ultimate force-wielder ever seen.

Their child would have 25 % force genes from Leia and 75% from Luke. That would make him/her 100% force compatible. He should be named: Lance

Erm...not correct.

Anakin = 50 or 75 % "the force"
Luke = 50 or 75 % Anakin = 25 or 56.25 % "the force"
Leia = 25-50 % Anakin

Now if Luke and Leia would have children the result would be:

Male = 50-75 % Luke = 25 - 50 % Anakin
Female = 50-75 % Leia

There is no way to get as strong as Anakin or Luke or even stronger.

That depends. We can be sure, that the force gene resides in X-chromosome. Since Luke is XY and Leia is XX. So if it was only in Y-Chromosome, it would mean that leia couldnt feel the force. No wman could in that case. + Can we be sure, Anakin has 24 chromsomes?

Edit: We must now assume that Anakin has a rare chromosome disorder, which gives him XXY. This error resides in his Y chromosome and thus is inherited to Luke. (*) The damaged Y chromosome.


This all depends if padme has any force potential in herself. Lets assume that her other X-chromosome bears this quality. marked as (')



So: Anakin XX'Y* ----- Padme XX'

f1 : Luke XX'Y* ----- Leia X'X.

f2 : Cindy X'X' (lukes and leias daughter)


This genetic potential must reside either in X or in Y. No other place. And X seems to be the correct place.

So. It's like 33.333% chance to get the correct one from Luke and 50% to get it from Leia.

Luke cannot inherit any force-potential from anakin, should the thing reside in X-chromosome. And if not so, then Leia could never feel the force. Curious, huh?

so u see my point, Luke is basically invincable, as long as he dosnt want to be beaten he will win

No, because with all the unknowns we have its best to use standard logic, making Anakin 50% force, Luke 25% force and thus as powerful as Sidious. NJO Luke can easily be killed atleast he should be able to easily die.

Even at most he would be 150% Sidious, and thats at the very best for him. Even then he would get owned by a shit load of people.

"The only thing that limits how the force can be used is the user." he is the joint best "user" in the galaxy

Your point being? That single thing will not make you win a debate, and it doesn't even deal with anything we just said.

Originally posted by Fishy
No, because with all the unknowns we have its best to use standard logic, making Anakin 50% force, Luke 25% force and thus as powerful as Sidious. NJO Luke can easily be killed atleast he should be able to easily die.

Even at most he would be 150% Sidious, and thats at the very best for him. Even then he would get owned by a shit load of people.

And now I throw in another statement from Lucas where he said that Anakin had the potential to become 10 times as powerful as Sidious. And now you have Luke being 5 or 7.5 times as powerful as Sidious what is quite enough to kill any other force user - or can you imagine somebody that can kill 5 or 7 Sidious clones at once ?

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
And now I throw in another statement from Lucas where he said that Anakin had the potential to become 10 times as powerful as Sidious. And now you have Luke being 5 or 7.5 times as powerful as Sidious what is quite enough to kill any other force user - or can you imagine somebody that can kill 5 or 7 Sidious clones at once ?

And I say this: don't argue the point that Anakin is partially Force AT ALL, since you basically have nothing to go on. You also have only the vaguest, number based generality of his power, and even that could drastically change with environmental factors, mindsets, experience, etc. I could argue that Anakin trained directly under Master Yoda could reach more potential. I could argue that Anakin as a full potential Sith could exceed even that amount. I could argue as a Makashi Master, he would be considerably more dangerous.

And this is where I come back to the point "Don't argue the totally unknowns." You can't argue Full Potential Anakin and his relation to NJO Luke's powers any more than you could argue that Lord Hoth was named for the planet. Why? Well, for one thing, GL didn't write NJO. He didn't regulate NJO Luke's powers, and why would he? The bullshit makes him money. Obviously some of you kept reading it. No Jedi in the movies is remotely close to the insanely noobish power level of NJo Luke, despite more training (Like Yoda... 900 years), training from birth, etc. His abilities are so ridiculously beyond explanable that you could never again relate him to Anakin. Anakin had nowhere near that amount of power, and to argue that he neccessarily would is an argument from ignorance.

And don't spout of percentiles and genetics; not a damn one of you here is a genetist on the side. And keep in mind that genetics is a relatively new science and that advocating such numbers is basing your entire argument on the randoms and unknowns of genetic science, something that still needs tremendous amounts of work.

So back to the topic, NJO Luke would win, simply because his powers are so out of proportion with the movies and what GL has shown us as Jedi and the Force. Instakill lightning and cloaking planets or killing a thousand warriors is way above anything the PT era or OT era jedi can do. NJO is easily well over the measley 200 %... or really, what Lucas said was closer to 160%. In any case, this argument is pointless and the key focus here is NJO Luke's overblown abilities, which put the odds in his favor. He wins.

Exactly right, however it is still crap. also anakin was as powerful as luke, he didnt trust the force like luke did he had more problems to deal with, more emotion. I believe he would beat obi wan if he put his faith in the force 100% and not in the dark side.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
And I say this: don't argue the point that Anakin is partially Force AT ALL, since you basically have nothing to go on. You also have only the vaguest, number based generality of his power, and even that could drastically change with environmental factors, mindsets, experience, etc. I could argue that Anakin trained directly under Master Yoda could reach more potential. I could argue that Anakin as a full potential Sith could exceed even that amount. I could argue as a Makashi Master, he would be considerably more dangerous.

And this is where I come back to the point "Don't argue the totally unknowns." You can't argue Full Potential Anakin and his relation to NJO Luke's powers any more than you could argue that Lord Hoth was named for the planet. Why? Well, for one thing, GL didn't write NJO. He didn't regulate NJO Luke's powers, and why would he? The bullshit makes him money. Obviously some of you kept reading it. No Jedi in the movies is remotely close to the insanely noobish power level of NJo Luke, despite more training (Like Yoda... 900 years), training from birth, etc. His abilities are so ridiculously beyond explanable that you could never again relate him to Anakin. Anakin had nowhere near that amount of power, and to argue that he neccessarily would is an argument from ignorance.

And don't spout of percentiles and genetics; not a damn one of you here is a genetist on the side. And keep in mind that genetics is a relatively new science and that advocating such numbers is basing your entire argument on the randoms and unknowns of genetic science, something that still needs tremendous amounts of work.

So back to the topic, NJO Luke would win, simply because his powers are so out of proportion with the movies and what GL has shown us as Jedi and the Force. Instakill lightning and cloaking planets or killing a thousand warriors is way above anything the PT era or OT era jedi can do. NJO is easily well over the measley 200 %... or really, what Lucas said was closer to 160%. In any case, this argument is pointless and the key focus here is NJO Luke's overblown abilities, which put the odds in his favor. He wins.

I liked the first three paragraphs, but I just can't see NJO Luke winning this fight. He would do good, but I think he would fail. I haven't read the series so I don't know much about it except what others say. I think thousands of Yuuzhan Vong is an exaggeration, but again, I have no idea truly. I do know however, that ONE of the Yuuzhan Vong (the one pretending to be the supreme overlord and probably second strongest) nearly killed Luke but Luke did win with two lightsabers. That alone tells me he's not nearly as powerful as you're laying on and I don't think he could beat Yoda and Mace at the same time.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I liked the first three paragraphs, but I just can't see NJO Luke winning this fight. He would do good, but I think he would fail. I haven't read the series so I don't know much about it except what others say. I think thousands of Yuuzhan Vong is an exaggeration, but again, I have no idea truly. I do know however, that ONE of the Yuuzhan Vong (the one pretending to be the supreme overlord and probably second strongest) nearly killed Luke but Luke did win with two lightsabers. That alone tells me he's not nearly as powerful as you're laying on and I don't think he could beat Yoda and Mace at the same time.

The exact number of Vong Luke killed doesn't matter much. He entered the headquarter of the Vong and fought his way through it. Now important scene number one:

Fighting 8 YV slayers. Statement given that Jacen and Jaina didn't do much to aid Luke. Now: Kyp Durron wasn't able to kill one of those slayers - now Luke kills 7 with his lightsaber and than instakills one with that "green sparks force power".

Scene two:
Now the Supreme Overlord is even more powerful than the slayers. After having killed the slayers (so having used at least some force powers) Luke faces the Supreme Overlord and - at least - kills him.
That can't be considered a "fair" duel since Luke had to do some fighting before reaching the Supreme Overlord and still Luke won that fight.

Conclusion:
If his raw force power combined with his knowledge and his lightsaber skill give him the ability to kill 8 enemies at once of whom one was too much for a Jedi Master (Kyp Durron) who is not that shabby he might be also able to defeat 2 Jedi masters even if those are Yoda and Mace.

Although to be fair, there is nothing to indicate that Kyp had the knowledge and the control to equal one PT master, so far as I've seen.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Conclusion:
If his raw force power combined with his knowledge and his lightsaber skill give him the ability to kill 8 enemies at once of whom one was too much for a Jedi Master (Kyp Durron) who is not that shabby he might be also able to defeat 2 Jedi masters even if those are Yoda and Mace.

By this same whim, Sidious was able to simultaneously obliterate 3 Jedi Masters, but got put on his ass by Mace Windu (implying M > S > 3 Jedi Masters), so does it mean that Mace is over 3 times as strong as Kyp? Hardly.

You're extrapolation isn't accurate enough to make a proper determination.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Although to be fair, there is nothing to indicate that Kyp had the knowledge and the control to equal one PT master, so far as I've seen.

Well...
Kyp Durron in the NJO series has gone through nearly 2 decades of Jedi training under Luke. He's considered to be the most powerful force user in the NJO without Skywalker blood (so Luke and the Solo children are stronger) and that makes him more powerful than Kyle Katarn.

And you can tell me what you want but Kyle Katarn would be a match for nearly every person in the PT Council with his knowledge, force powers and more than 30 years of experience as soldier, spy and Jedi Knight.

Perhaps. Sad, but true.

I like the font in your sig btw. I need to go font hunting. Getting tired of the same old few.

who is the character on the right of ur sig

A Sith Trooper, from KOTOR.

Indeed. But don't get attached. Tomorrow night or perhaps even tonight I'll make another one.

NOOOO!!!

,,, Not tonight. Too lazy.

Could you make me a new sig? I have very limited resources and not alotta time to make my own. Would really appreciate.

Yoda is the coolest ever so he wud cut luke up whilst mace was pumping his muscels

Ah, our first September Member! So predictable. . .

Yeah. Our best month for new members was June or July, I think.

Tsk. Whichever had me in it. . .

Actually, July had Illustrious and mwah. . . We were on bad terms back then, me and Illustrious.

Well, he doesn't spare the whip. But he's an excellent debater, and a cool guy as I've come to find out.

Oh yeah. I meant back in early July. We had a row once, he and I, remember? We're cool now. Not to mention he is one of the finest debaters on this forum.

I definately agree. Of course, the best part about debating is that everyone sees things differently. We get different takes from everyone, and from that we can piece together better arguments. It's not just one person rending the truth to the rest of us.

Aww pssh. I haven't used the whip yet, except on Emperor Revan, but he should know it.

Where is Emperor Revan anyway, he hasn't been here in a while.

Whip wounds heal slow, my friend.