Albums You Can Listen To...

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Dr. Octagon
without skipping any tracks.

off the top of my head, ill say:

Jurassic 5- Quality Control
The Pharcyde- Bizarre Ride II
Gza- Liquid Swords
Latyrx- Album

Alpha Centauri
All.

Skipping tracks sucks. Don't understand why you'd buy an album and skip bits.

-AC

Dr. Octagon
do you download first and then buy the album?

koolruningz
Brother Ali - Shadows on the sun
Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow
JMT - Violent by design
Leftfield - Leftism
Portishead - Dummy
Morcheeba - Big calm
Roots Manuva - Run come save me
Aesop Rock - Labor Days
John Butler Trio - Sunrise over sea
Ben Harper - Welcome to the cruel world
Any Bob Marley album especially the live ones

Im sure theres more but thats all i've got for now.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Dr. Octagon
do you download first and then buy the album?

No.

I don't download anything besides the very odd single, rarely. Downloading whole albums is shit and should be banned. I've downloaded maybe one or two albums in the past that I've gone out and bought. But I would never ever do it again.

-AC

Dr. Octagon
but how do you know your gonna buy a good album? i remember buying Tha Alkaholiks- Coast II Coast, and i thought it was a classic. Then i bought XO Experience, and i should have downloaded it before. i was so sure that the album was gonna be just as good as Coast II Coast.

i download, and if i liked it i buy it. if i hate it, i delete it.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Dr. Octagon
but how do you know your gonna buy a good album? i remember buying Tha Alkaholiks- Coast II Coast, and i thought it was a classic. Then i bought XO Experience, and i should have downloaded it before. i was so sure that the album was gonna be just as good as Coast II Coast.

i download, and if i liked it i buy it. if i hate it, i delete it.

You don't know you're gonna buy a good album. I don't consider that a bad thing. It's part of the joy of buying music. I've got a great deal of albums I'd not buy again, sure. But at the time I didn't regret it because that's what it's about.

Besides, if you don't like it, take it back and get a refund.

You say you download, if you like it you buy it and if you hate it you delete it. Why not buy it, and if you like it, keep it. If you hate it, refund it? Pointless not to.

In today's world, there's no reason to download albums at all. If it's worth your time to listen to, it's worth your time to buy it.

-AC

Dr. Octagon
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't know you're gonna buy a good album. I don't consider that a bad thing. It's part of the joy of buying music. I've got a great deal of albums I'd not buy again, sure. But at the time I didn't regret it because that's what it's about.

Besides, if you don't like it, take it back and get a refund.

You say you download, if you like it you buy it and if you hate it you delete it. Why not buy it, and if you like it, keep it. If you hate it, refund it? Pointless not to.

In today's world, there's no reason to download albums at all. If it's worth your time to listen to, it's worth your time to buy it.

-AC

ehhh if i take the album back, im gonna feel bad...i dont want the awful album to be outshined by the others no expression

smokin'

Alpha Centauri
As I said, no justifiable reason for downloading.

-AC

koolruningz
Money usually comes into the equation for me. I get two chances a year to stock up on my CD's (birthday and Xmas) and i'd hate to gamble and buy a shit album. I cant download albums because i have dial up at home and a limit at work, but i like to see what a few of the artists songs are like when i am thinking of buying their album. Also pretty much all my music is bought off the Internet so i cant just stroll down to the local HMV or Tower like when i lived in the UK for a refund.

ElectricBugaloo
some albums don't deserve to be listened to all the way through, unless you like listening to bad music.

at the drive in - relationship of command
jerr buckley - grace
weezer - weezer (the blue album)
the beatles - abbey road
blackalicious - blazing arrow
sage francis - a healthy distrust
talking heads - remain in light

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by koolruningz
Money usually comes into the equation for me. I get two chances a year to stock up on my CD's (birthday and Xmas) and i'd hate to gamble and buy a shit album. I cant download albums because i have dial up at home and a limit at work, but i like to see what a few of the artists songs are like when i am thinking of buying their album. Also pretty much all my music is bought off the Internet so i cant just stroll down to the local HMV or Tower like when i lived in the UK for a refund.

You can refund from wherever you buy CDs.

You not wanting to take a gamble is you, like so many others, being afraid of the POSITIVE vulnerability that comes with unknown music. I don't suffer from that. It's no reason to rip off a band.

-AC

Tptmanno1
I Download for two reasons,
A, Never even heard of the band or the style or anything, so I DL a song just to see what they are like. Just a song, so I'm not flying completly blind.
B. Live and Rare stuff, I DL all sorts of Music Videos for bands (I have all teh Tool and RATM videos and some live footage too.) But you can't get that anywhere else, so I don't feel bad.

But like AC said, I love buying a CD, and not knowing exaclty what your gonna get. Its fun.

But to be slightly on topic, I usually listen to the whole album, unless I get an urge to listen to a peticular song.
Usually Demon of the Fall, or Hurt or something.

koolruningz
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You can refund from wherever you buy CDs.

You not wanting to take a gamble is you, like so many others, being afraid of the POSITIVE vulnerability that comes with unknown music. I don't suffer from that. It's no reason to rip off a band.

-AC

Thanks for your character assessment when i need a shrink i now know who to call. wink
My reasons for downloading a few songs i thought was pretty clear from my previous post. Im sure if i had loads of money to gamble on the enlightenment that comes from experiencing "unknown" music i would give it a try (i certainly have done in the past), but as i have a wife, 2 kids, a mortgage and countless other outgoings i dont have buckets of money to piss away on albums that may be life changing but could also be shite. There was a time that i could spend all my money on music and not have to worry about all the "grown up" stuff but alas that time has passed.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by koolruningz
Thanks for your character assessment when i need a shrink i now know who to call. wink
My reasons for downloading a few songs i thought was pretty clear from my previous post. Im sure if i had loads of money to gamble on the enlightenment that comes from experiencing "unknown" music i would give it a try (i certainly have done in the past), but as i have a wife, 2 kids, a mortgage and countless other outgoings i dont have buckets of money to piss away on albums that may be life changing but could also be shite. There was a time that i could spend all my money on music and not have to worry about all the "grown up" stuff but alas that time has passed.

You're not exactly gonna be pissing away money on albums.

Bit of an unrealistic image.

-AC

Snoopbert
14.99 on an album... that's the average here. Personally, I DL first, because the only good place for buying music ahs this stupid "Exact Packaging" thing in their return policy.

koolruningz
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're not exactly gonna be pissing away money on albums.

Bit of an unrealistic image.

-AC

How so?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Tptmanno1
But to be slightly on topic, I usually listen to the whole album, unless I get an urge to listen to a peticular song.
Usually Demon of the Fall, or Hurt or something.

99% of the time it's albums.

If I'm inbetween albums and can't decide I'll listen to the odd singular song.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All.

Skipping tracks sucks. Don't understand why you'd buy an album and skip bits.

-AC

Boy-oh-boy, you've been speaking a lot of crapola in this thread! Hmm, well...Let's see...Why would anyone skip a track on an album? Hmmmm...Hmmmmmmm?

The idea that you obtain joy out of buying albums, regardless of quality, marks you down as a hope-less consumer, who has been converted by those who see file-sharing as an evil, evil, bad thing. Get a grip, dear boy! What you are squirting on about isn't cool, and certainly isn't clever.

Albums I currently play all the way through (because skipping is incomprehensible):

Slightly Stoopid - Acoustic Roots
K-OS - Joyful Rebellion
The Roots - The Tipping Point
Bob Marley - Exodus and Kaya
The Streets - A Grand Don't Come For Free
John Legend - Let's Get Lifted
Audioslave - Out Of Exile
Donovan Frankenreiter - Donovan Frankenreiter
The Beautiful Girls - Learn Yourself
Rage Against The Machine - Battle Of Los Angeles

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't know you're gonna buy a good album. I don't consider that a bad thing. It's part of the joy of buying music. I've got a great deal of albums I'd not buy again, sure. But at the time I didn't regret it because that's what it's about.

Besides, if you don't like it, take it back and get a refund.

You say you download, if you like it you buy it and if you hate it you delete it. Why not buy it, and if you like it, keep it. If you hate it, refund it? Pointless not to.

In today's world, there's no reason to download albums at all. If it's worth your time to listen to, it's worth your time to buy it.

-AC

Full refunds?
I don't know where you're from, but where I'm at you can't get full refunds for CD's you've already opened. An exchange, yes. A refund, no. You can take it back to a place that sells used CD's and get 5-8 bucks, but that's not a full refund.

I totally see where you're coming from, but I moved on from that. I used to buy every tape and CD I could get my hands on. Whether or not I had heard the album. But as I got older my outlook changed. Mainly and only for money. As soon as I moved out and started living on my own I've had to cut back more and more on album purchases. Which sucks because I love listening to music. I myself don't see anything wrong with d/l an album, buying it if I like it, and deleting it if I don't. In fact, that's pretty much all I do now. Saved me sooooo much cash and I'm personally happy about that. I'm not ripping off the artists because I don't make a profit off of their work. I don't d/l CD's to turn around and sell them. In fact, as I see it, it's just like I used to do before I started d/l music. If a friend had an album I was interested in, I would borrow it and check it out. If I liked it I would buy it. If I didn't I wouldn't. Sometimes I would go to record stores that had the album available to listen to, and I would do the same in that particular situation. I don't think I was ripping off the artists just because I was listening to their album before I purchased it. You may think differently, and I respect that, but I feel very differently. I just don't have the money now to blind buy every CD I want. Man, I wish I did. I love having all my CD's lined up. I love reading the inserts. I love the feeling of opening a new CD. Just can't do it right now. I've saved so much cash, I can honestly say I don't regret ever d/l an album. Every album that I've listened to and enjoyed I purchased. I've never sold any bootlegs. And the funny thing is, d/l music got me into artists I never would have heard of if I didn't have the opportunity to d/l their music. There's so many artists out there I've never would of heard of if it wasn't for d/l their music. I've spent a lot of cash on albums that way. Artists have gotten my money just because of a d/l. Where before they never would have... I still support many artists whether or not I know the albums good. Doom, anything from Peanuts and Corn, De La Soul, ect ect. I just don't have the cash to do it on every artist I come across.

At the end of the day, I'm still broke from buying so many damn CD's. But at the same time, I've saved a lot of money in the process by d/l music. I always support the artists I enjoy and never profit off of their music in any way. I know you like making blind buys and that's cool. Have a blast. It's just not for everyone.

and if I did get a full refund I would buy CD's everyday.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Full refunds?
I don't know where you're from, but where I'm at you can't get full refunds for CD's you've already opened. An exchange, yes. A refund, no. You can take it back to a place that sells used CD's and get 5-8 bucks, but that's not a full refund.

HMV, for example, have a returns policy whereby if you have the receipt, you can get a refund. That being said, alot of my CDs are bought online. You can get a total refund there at all times.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I totally see where you're coming from, but I moved on from that. I used to buy every tape and CD I could get my hands on. Whether or not I had heard the album. But as I got older my outlook changed. Mainly and only for money. As soon as I moved out and started living on my own I've had to cut back more and more on album purchases. Which sucks because I love listening to music. I myself don't see anything wrong with d/l an album, buying it if I like it, and deleting it if I don't. In fact, that's pretty much all I do now. Saved me sooooo much cash and I'm personally happy about that. I'm not ripping off the artists because I don't make a profit off of their work. I don't d/l CD's to turn around and sell them. In fact, as I see it, it's just like I used to do before I started d/l music. If a friend had an album I was interested in, I would borrow it and check it out. If I liked it I would buy it. If I didn't I wouldn't.

You aren't making profit, but they're losing money by you not paying for it. That's a fact. It's like littering. One person happened to think "Meh, one can thrown on the floor won't hurt." Next thing you know we're in 2005 with a ****ed up eco-system and a hole in the o-zone layer. Same with albums. If everyone assumes they aren't hurting by downloading, artist are gonna (and do) suffer.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Sometimes I would go to record stores that had the album available to listen to, and I would do the same in that particular situation. I don't think I was ripping off the artists just because I was listening to their album before I purchased it. You may think differently, and I respect that, but I feel very differently. I just don't have the money now to blind buy every CD I want. Man, I wish I did. I love having all my CD's lined up. I love reading the inserts. I love the feeling of opening a new CD. Just can't do it right now. I've saved so much cash, I can honestly say I don't regret ever d/l an album. Every album that I've listened to and enjoyed I purchased. I've never sold any bootlegs. And the funny thing is, d/l music got me into artists I never would have heard of if I didn't have the opportunity to d/l their music. There's so many artists out there I've never would of heard of if it wasn't for d/l their music. I've spent a lot of cash on albums that way. Artists have gotten my money just because of a d/l. Where before they never would have... I still support many artists whether or not I know the albums good. Doom, anything from Peanuts and Corn, De La Soul, ect ect. I just don't have the cash to do it on every artist I come across.

I respect that because as you said, you've allegedly bought every album you've ever downloaded so technically no one is getting financially ripped off. I personally believe downloading is ruining the experience intended by the artist. You get one chance to listen to an album for the first time, it shouldn't be on an internet download.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
At the end of the day, I'm still broke from buying so many damn CD's. But at the same time, I've saved a lot of money in the process by d/l music. I always support the artists I enjoy and never profit off of their music in any way. I know you like making blind buys and that's cool. Have a blast. It's just not for everyone.

But stealing is? Because that's what downloading is. If you worked in a clothes store and you got paid commission bonus, how would you feel if people stole purely because they don't have the money? You're suffering from that, coz the more people steal, the less gets sold. The less that gets sold, the less you make a living from. People say "Artists shouldn't care if they love the music". My answer to that is, when you get a job you love, don't ask to be paid. The fact that you love it should be enough.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
and if I did get a full refund I would buy CD's everyday.

Play.com do free delivery on every CD and they're extremely cheap.

Amazon.com also. Both do returns policies.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
The idea that you obtain joy out of buying albums, regardless of quality, marks you down as a hope-less consumer, who has been converted by those who see file-sharing as an evil, evil, bad thing. Get a grip, dear boy! What you are squirting on about isn't cool, and certainly isn't clever.

I don't obtain joy from buying albums regardless of quality. I think the most exciting part of music is buying albums you have possibly no clue about and maybe digging into a band you like.

Do you have any idea why file-sharing sucks? Let me run the facts by you junior:

Artists pay for the recording, production and advertising of the record. They pay for the videos (depending if they have one or not). They pay the touring costs, then there's the merch crews, road crews, legal fees and such. So when you're downloading the albums, they're touring and LOSING money if you don't pay for their albums. Medium sized bands have to sell over half a million records to even begin to make money as a result of downloading. So by stealing their music, you're increasing the chances that bands who aren't actually very rich, won't be able to tour anymore, or record music. It's pathetic, unknowledgeable kids like you who have your heads stuck in the sand that think downloading is great. It's not.

So before you address me, know your shit first.

-AC

koolruningz
Eraserhead, that was brilliantly said. I wish i could turn back the clock sometimes and spend my weeks wage on CD's but i have more important things on my list. That said i have ordered a CD recently that i never would have known about if i hadnt d/l a couple of tracks from it, so as you rightly said that artist gets money from me that he wouldnt have seen otherwise. I love buying CD's when i get the chance but its just not practical for me to buy an album on the off chance that it might be golden.

Alpha Centauri
There are factual reason, some of which I just posted, as to why downloading is wrong.

Let's not slip into thinking it's subjective.

-AC

Snoopbert
Factual reasons? It's subjective, not factual.

koolruningz
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There are factual reason, some of which I just posted, as to why downloading is wrong.

Let's not slip into thinking it's subjective.

-AC

I've read what you posted, i even respect your opinion on this matter. Shame you cant do the same.

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Artists pay for the recording, production and advertising of the record. They pay for the videos (depending if they have one or not). They pay the touring costs, then there's the merch crews, road crews, legal fees and such. So when you're downloading the albums, they're touring and LOSING money if you don't pay for their albums. Medium sized bands have to sell over half a million records to even begin to make money as a result of downloading. So by stealing their music, you're increasing the chances that bands who aren't actually very rich, won't be able to tour anymore, or record music. It's pathetic, unknowledgeable kids like you who have your heads stuck in the sand that think downloading is great. It's not.

So before you address me, know your shit first.

Ooo, check out your pink, fluffy hand-bag! It goes so well with your narrow-minded world-view. The idea that a personal consideration of the pros and cons of file-sharing can be applied to the world and acknowledged as a fact, clearly high-lights your lack of worldly experience.

To prescribe an opinion and attempt to apply it to the world is preposterous. Have you ever lent a CD to a friend? Recorded a movie from TV? Read a book from a library? These actions are, in essence, the same as file-sharing. The simple difference is that file-sharing is a relatively new mode of exchange.

For my next trick, I will insert my little finger up your anus and control you like the little puppet you are.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Snoopbert
Factual reasons? It's subjective, not factual.

No, read the reply. Those are factual, financial reasons as to why artists suffer from downloading. It's not subjective.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Ooo, check out your pink, fluffy hand-bag! It goes so well with your narrow-minded world-view. The idea that a personal consideration of the pros and cons of file-sharing can be applied to the world and acknowledged as a fact, clearly high-lights your lack of worldly experience.

There are facts and opinions surrounding the topic of file sharing. Everything I said in my reply to you is a fact. Factual. Not my opinion. What I discussed with Eraserhead, while strongly able to be backed up, is an subjective view. That's why I said there were facts and opinions surrounding it. Because there are, and I know them both. The fact that you don't, isn't my problem. You chose to speak on a subject of which you are apparantly uneducated.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
To prescribe an opinion and attempt to apply it to the world is preposterous. Have you ever lent a CD to a friend? Recorded a movie from TV? Read a book from a library? These actions are, in essence, the same as file-sharing. The simple difference is that file-sharing is a relatively new mode of exchange.

Agreed. Thanks for proving my point. If I lend a CD to a friend, his or her first impression of the album is coming from the actual intended package, the release. Not a dozen or more ripped MP3's on the net. He or she are hearing music that has been paid for, not stolen. Everyone I've ever lent a CD to has gone out and bought it, because they've like it. I don't lend CDs out anymore anyway.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
For my next trick, I will insert my little finger up your anus and control you like the little puppet you are.

Why are you talking about anal insertion? Please don't. It's not nice. Instead, stop being an ill-informed, ignorant little cockshit and start trying to know what you're talking about, because you're clueless.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, read the reply. Those are factual, financial reasons as to why artists suffer from downloading. It's not subjective.

Seems to me that you're telling WMDs.



The relationship is the same. An MP3 originally began life as a happy little CD, that decided to grow up and share the love. If only you could do the same...



Why did you begin talking about sand-pits? Don't you know that's where the doggies do their doo-doo? Oh, wait a minute...yeah, you probably do.

Your pseudo-intelligence and faux-arrogance may work on the 12-year-olds, but it doesn't twinkle my toes. Ultimately, you're just an extension of their ignorance.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Seems to me that you're telling WMDs.

I'm not, because those are factual. Not my opinion. I don't just think all that stuff happens, it actually does.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
The relationship is the same. An MP3 originally began life as a happy little CD, that decided to grow up and share the love. If only you could do the same...

Clutching at straws now my friend. The artist puts the work in, the effort, the time and the money, to release an album on a certain date in a certain way. Hearing it any other way is going against that. So no, it's not the same. Ripping on song of a body of work and spreading it around the net is not the same at all. Like ripping a piece off a painting and showing it to people. It wasn't intended to be seen like that and there for is in direct violation of the presentation intended by the artist.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Why did you begin talking about sand-pits? Don't you know that's where the doggies do their doo-doo? Oh, wait a minute...yeah, you probably do.

Your pseudo-intelligence and faux-arrogance may work on the 12-year-olds, but it doesn't twinkle my toes. Ultimately, you're just an extension of their ignorance.

You came in here as if you were Mr. T and I sent you packing. What do you want? You're clueless to this issue and clearly know nothing about it. Hence why your replies have been chopped in half and turned into nothing more than a comedy show.

Try again when you've got some sense.

-AC

koolruningz
I think we've all made our points now and can step down from the soap boxes. wink

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
HMV, for example, have a returns policy whereby if you have the receipt, you can get a refund. That being said, alot of my CDs are bought online. You can get a total refund there at all times.

HMV?

I rarely buy CD's from online stores, but that sounds interesting. The places I've gotten CD's from online didn't offer refunds unless the item is damaged... And that kind of policy doesn't make sense to me. Why refund the money just because the consumer doesn't like what they've heard. They would basically be renting their CD's out. They would just be holding your money until you return the item.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You aren't making profit, but they're losing money by you not paying for it. That's a fact. It's like littering. One person happened to think "Meh, one can thrown on the floor won't hurt." Next thing you know we're in 2005 with a ****ed up eco-system and a hole in the o-zone layer. Same with albums. If everyone assumes they aren't hurting by downloading, artist are gonna (and do) suffer.

I see that you're trying to make an analogy but destroying our environment and not "paying" our musicians aren't even in the same ball park. Not even the same league. Like I said, I've borrowed CD's countless of times and ended up not buying the album because I wasn't impressed. So did I cost them money because I didn't go out and blindly buy their album? I couldn't disagree more.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I respect that because as you said, you've allegedly bought every album you've ever downloaded so technically no one is getting financially ripped off.

I never said I've purchased every album I've d/l. I said I've purchased every album I have enjoyed. And again, I see your point. That I'm costing them money by not blindly buying the album, but it's not anything people having been doing before file sharing programs. Certainly not like it is today, but everybody has borrowed albums and listened to them fully in record stores. I honestly don't think we're costing them money by listening to the product first. Ultimately we have a choice. Most of the time, in my case, the choice of d/l an album resulted in an artist getting paid. By me. Where as before, due to budget, I never would have even thought about buying the album. So many times. One example. I had heard a couple of singles by an artist Supastition and I wasn't really impressed at all. Just seemed like another battle MC and man I had heard too many at that point. I saw his album in a local shop I go to and didn't think anything of it. Time goes by. One day I see my friend has it (online). So I grab the album (d/l) because I was looking for any new music. I fell in love with it on the first listen. A truly good album by an artist I would come to enjoy and follow. Now I buy any of his material without having to listen to it. I know you're going to say that what's fun about buying CD's, but again I don't have that kind of money at this moment. It has been for some time, and will be for at least a couple of years. You seem to have the dough and that's great man. More power to you. Support as many artists as you can if it truly means that much to you. I personally don't realistically have that option right now.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I personally believe downloading is ruining the experience intended by the artist. You get one chance to listen to an album for the first time, it shouldn't be on an internet download.

I respect that you feel that way wholeheartedly, but I totally disagree. I know you have your opinion, but that opinion doesn't dictate how I feel when I listen to an album for the first time.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
But stealing is? Because that's what downloading is. If you worked in a clothes store and you got paid commission bonus, how would you feel if people stole purely because they don't have the money? You're suffering from that, coz the more people steal, the less gets sold. The less that gets sold, the less you make a living from. People say "Artists shouldn't care if they love the music". My answer to that is, when you get a job you love, don't ask to be paid. The fact that you love it should be enough.

I'm not trying to say d/l albums is "ok". Or even that it doesn't cost artists money because people make money from bootlegs and that is completely wrong. Something that I myself would Never do... but I don't look at what I do as stealing. As soon as I realize that a particular album isn't for me I delete it forever. Maybe it is wrong to do so, but I'm not a perfect man. Maybe some people think they are. But I know one thing for sure, I'm Not making artists broke and keeping food off of their table.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Play.com do free delivery on every CD and they're extremely cheap.

Amazon.com also. Both do returns policies.

Thanks for the heads up about Play.com. I seriously have to check that out. And I hope they both do return policies for albums I don't enjoy listening to because they're probably going to get a lot back.

Eraserhead
Originally posted by koolruningz
I think we've all made our points now and can step down from the soap boxes. wink

FACTUAL

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Clutching at straws now my friend. The artist puts the work in, the effort, the time and the money, to release an album on a certain date in a certain way. Hearing it any other way is going against that. So no, it's not the same. Ripping on song of a body of work and spreading it around the net is not the same at all. Like ripping a piece off a painting and showing it to people. It wasn't intended to be seen like that and there for is in direct violation of the presentation intended by the artist.

The straws I'm clutching look like javelins compared to your tooth-picks. If you rip a piece off a painting, you are looking at part of a painting. If you rip an MP3, you are viewing the whole. Intentions change over time; they evolve like the world we live in. It's just a shame you're stuck in the past. Nothing is better or worse, just different.



To paraphrase the great man, "I pity you, fool!"

Teenage braggadocio is always unpleasent, praticularly when the child in question is no longer in his teens.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
HMV?

I rarely buy CD's from online stores, but that sounds interesting. The places I've gotten CD's from online didn't offer refunds unless the item is damaged... And that kind of policy doesn't make sense to me. Why refund the money just because the consumer doesn't like what they've heard. They would basically be renting their CD's out. They would just be holding your money until you return the item.

Definately check out those sites then man. I got a duplicate by accident and they said just send it back with the receipt and you get a refund.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I see that you're trying to make an analogy but destroying our environment and not "paying" our musicians aren't even in the same ball park. Not even the same league. Like I said, I've borrowed CD's countless of times and ended up not buying the album because I wasn't impressed. So did I cost them money because I didn't go out and blindly buy their album? I couldn't disagree more.

I wasn't saying they're in the same league, I was making a point about ignorance.

You've borrowed CDs, that's fine. Those CDs are paid for I assume, and your first impression is from the album. How the artist intended. Not only is it financially wrong for reasons I've stated, but it is a bit shit to think that an artist might get turned down purely because people download shit versions of his/her work.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I never said I've purchased every album I've d/l. I said I've purchased every album I have enjoyed. And again, I see your point. That I'm costing them money by not blindly buying the album, but it's not anything people having been doing before file sharing programs. Certainly not like it is today, but everybody has borrowed albums and listened to them fully in record stores. I honestly don't think we're costing them money by listening to the product first. Ultimately we have a choice. Most of the time, in my case, the choice of d/l an album resulted in an artist getting paid. By me. Where as before, due to budget, I never would have even thought about buying the album. So many times. One example. I had heard a couple of singles by an artist Supastition and I wasn't really impressed at all. Just seemed like another battle MC and man I had heard too many at that point. I saw his album in a local shop I go to and didn't think anything of it. Time goes by. One day I see my friend has it (online). So I grab the album (d/l) because I was looking for any new music. I fell in love with it on the first listen. A truly good album by an artist I would come to enjoy and follow. Now I buy any of his material without having to listen to it. I know you're going to say that what's fun about buying CD's, but again I don't have that kind of money at this moment. It has been for some time, and will be for at least a couple of years. You seem to have the dough and that's great man. More power to you. Support as many artists as you can if it truly means that much to you. I personally don't realistically have that option right now.

The thing is, the subjective side of me being anti-downloading is the morals behind it. I PERSONALLY don't believe it's right to hear something first on the net as a bunch of ripped MP3's. I believe that removes from not only the experience, but the effort the artist has gone to. However, you download...right? Then as you've said. If it's an artist you like, you buy it. So the ends justify the means, because you're getting a good album, the artist is getting paid. So subjectively, I can't really complain because technically nobody is getting ripped there, and that's good. I recognise that not everyone can afford to go blindly buying albums, that's why I do tend to overlook my subjective view about it ruining the experience etc. Some people genuinely get broke and can't buy, but would if they could and do, if they can. Such as yourself. See my point?


Originally posted by Eraserhead
I respect that you feel that way wholeheartedly, but I totally disagree. I know you have your opinion, but that opinion doesn't dictate how I feel when I listen to an album for the first time.

That's the way you feel then. I disagree as strongly, but as long as it gets paid for, I have nothing but subjective disagreements.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm not trying to say d/l albums is "ok". Or even that it doesn't cost artists money because people make money from bootlegs and that is completely wrong. Something that I myself would Never do... but I don't look at what I do as stealing. As soon as I realize that a particular album isn't for me I delete it forever. Maybe it is wrong to do so, but I'm not a perfect man. Maybe some people think they are. But I know one thing for sure, I'm Not making artists broke and keeping food off of their table.

I agree with you. If you delete it when you hate it, fair enough. My point is that I hate people who claim to not have money for CD's, DOWNLOAD many albums and then quite clearly use their money to go get wasted out of their heads. Their life and I respect that. But that's when it's at it's most wrong, laziness. If you have the cash, want the album, but don't buy it just because you want something else, then you shouldn't be downloading it. If it's worth the downloading and listening time, it's worth buying.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Thanks for the heads up about Play.com. I seriously have to check that out. And I hope they both do return policies for albums I don't enjoy listening to because they're probably going to get a lot back.

http://www.play.com

I got a duplicate the other day. They take back all unwanted items if you have the packaging, invoice etc.

-AC

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
The straws I'm clutching look like javelins compared to your tooth-picks. If you rip a piece off a painting, you are looking at part of a painting. If you rip an MP3, you are viewing the whole. Intentions change over time; they evolve like the world we live in. It's just a shame you're stuck in the past. Nothing is better or worse, just different.

If you rip one MP3 off a body of musical art consisting of different songs, you're not hearing the whole are you? No, you're not.

You're as ignorant as you are oblivious.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
To paraphrase the great man, "I pity you, fool!"

Teenage braggadocio is always unpleasent, praticularly when the child in question is no longer in his teens.

Who isn't in their teens?

Secondly, stop replying if you're just gonna be hurling insults. I've smashed your arguement. You're finished kid.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
I find the pretension that listening to down-loaded music is like having sex with a hooker, ridiculous. Get over yourself! Virgin Surgeons get aids and die.

Alpha Centauri
Move the white flag, man. I can't see your post.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
For someone who seems to believe they have 'won' a 'battle' of some-sort, you are amusingly lacking in legitimate rebuttals.

Here's a link to help you with any words you either don't understand or misunderstand:

www.dictionary.com

Welcome.

Alpha Centauri
Considering I've reduced you to a bitter, internet link posting mess, I'd reconsider your position here and realise that any posture you have to even continue posting to me, is dubious at this point.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Considering I've reduced you to a bitter, internet link posting mess, I'd reconsider your position here and realise that any posture you have to even continue posting to me, is dubious at this point.

For someone who seems to believe they have 'won' a 'battle' of some-sort, you are amusingly lacking in legitimate rebuttals.

Here's a link to help you with any words you either don't understand or misunderstand:

www.dictionary.com

Welcome.

What was that about 'stepping your game up', Snoop?

Alpha Centauri
Fun this isn't it, Krunk? You try to come into a debate, I push you away like red-headed stepchild and now you've gone all kindergarten on me.

Cute, genuinely. Always nice to have a fan who follows me around. I've got a few here though, so better compete fast.

OR, you can say something on topic for me to tear apart again. Either/or, optional smile.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
No, you're right. Your posts are too much for lill' ol' me. My eyes hurt from staring in awe at your radiance. I'll leave you to play in the sand with your deluded 'sychophants'...

Alpha Centauri
Oooh, a tri-syllabic word. Not bad.

Glad we could have this talk smile.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
You're welcome. I'll be happy to continue the (mis)education of AC again at a latter date.

Be well, my child.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
No, you're right. Your posts are too much for lill' ol' me. My eyes hurt from staring in awe at your radiance. I'll leave you to play in the sand with your deluded 'sychophants'...

Hey people stat threads about how much they hat me, I am no sycophant, neither am I deluded. I do though think AC has illuded you.
This in my opinion is not hard as your arguments elude the common sense option. know when to pick your fights on a forum, instead of picking fights where you are trying to argue from a flawed position - which inevitably leads to loss.

Alpha Centauri
Yep, yep.

The thing is, if he had just admitted he knows nothing and that he was out of his depth, I'd at least respect his honesty.

-AC

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Looks like you two should get a room...Do you know what I am alluding to, or has the insinuation illuded you yet again? Perhaps, you would like me to make it simpler so that point doesn't elude your comprehension?

Pff, kids.

Alpha Centauri
Quite funny how, to cover up that you have the intelligence of a goldfish, you've started using big words. Go you.

I'm sure we're all impressed and I'm sure it erases the whooping I've given you in every thread you've followed me into.

You're like my very own Stan.

-AC

Lana
I can't say I've ever bought a CD that I have to skip through. I skip songs, yeah, but that's usually if I'm just in the mood to listen to certain things.

As for downloading....I don't really like it. But I do it, for three reasons, primarily. The first is so that I can see if it's something that I like. If I don't, it gets deleted. The second is because I simply cannot afford to buy every CD I want when I want; I'm in college and largely footing the bill by myself. I download albums, and then as soon as I get a chance and some spare cash I go out and buy it. The third is if it's something I simply cannot get on CD at all. Like, I like a lot of video game and anime music. Most of that stuff I cannot find on CD, anywhere. If I can, it has to be imported from Japan, costs double what a normal CD does, and the shipping is ridiculous. We're talking a total cost of about $50 for a single CD. Sorry, but that's FAR more than I can afford.

Also, the stores around here won't let you return a CD unless it's defective, and even then they'll only let you exchange it for the same CD. Can't get an actual refund.

koolruningz
Originally posted by Lana
As for downloading....I don't really like it. But I do it, for three reasons, primarily. The first is so that I can see if it's something that I like. If I don't, it gets deleted. The second is because I simply cannot afford to buy every CD I want when I want; I'm in college and largely footing the bill by myself. I download albums, and then as soon as I get a chance and some spare cash I go out and buy it. The third is if it's something I simply cannot get on CD at all. Like, I like a lot of video game and anime music. Most of that stuff I cannot find on CD, anywhere. If I can, it has to be imported from Japan, costs double what a normal CD does, and the shipping is ridiculous. We're talking a total cost of about $50 for a single CD. Sorry, but that's FAR more than I can afford.

Maybe you have vulnerability issues. wink

Alpha Centauri
Do you even understand what I meant by that?

-AC

koolruningz
Yes. It was meant to lighten the mood considering we have just had 2 pages of shit throwing. Sorry if it offended you.

Snoopbert
no expression Every single thread...

Alpha Centauri
Because you care enough not to post here, apparantly. I'm not an ass, I don't kick shit off for no reason. Just end it.

Edit: I know, Kool. Was just asking.

-AC

koolruningz
No harm done. big grin

bardock
any gn'r

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Alan Centauri
HMV, for example, have a returns policy whereby if you have the receipt, you can get a refund. That being said, alot of my CDs are bought online. You can get a total refund there at all times.

-AP

You can't do this, I've actually told you countless times.

Alpha Centauri
I've done it before you fool. Last christmas, to be fair, but I did it. Can even ask Trop. Actually, you were there when I took back loads of CDs and got the cash refund.

Unless they changed it.

And stop calling me AP.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Alan Centauri
I've done it before you fool. Last christmas, to be fair, but I did it.

Make the logic leap son. I'm on the other side. Pretend you're Neo.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Unless they changed it.

You chose the right pill.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

And stop calling me AP.

-AP

Morgoths_Wrath
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't know you're gonna buy a good album. I don't consider that a bad thing. It's part of the joy of buying music. I've got a great deal of albums I'd not buy again, sure. But at the time I didn't regret it because that's what it's about.

Besides, if you don't like it, take it back and get a refund.

You say you download, if you like it you buy it and if you hate it you delete it. Why not buy it, and if you like it, keep it. If you hate it, refund it? Pointless not to.

In today's world, there's no reason to download albums at all. If it's worth your time to listen to, it's worth your time to buy it.

-AC

you know you can goto amazon.com and preview the tracks before you buy the album. I do it all the time, and it really helps you get a feel for what the album sounds like. They're only clips from each track, so you can listen to the whole thing when you buy it. If you like what you hear, buy it. If not, don't.

It works rather well for me, and plus I saved money by not buying albums I didn't think I'd like, albums I probably would have bought otherwise.

Morgoths_Wrath
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All.

Skipping tracks sucks. Don't understand why you'd buy an album and skip bits.

-AC

I also think what he was getting at was...are there any albums that you like every singe track on it.

And don't tell me you like all the tracks on all the albums you like. Don't do it!

Darth Revan
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you have any idea why file-sharing sucks? Let me run the facts by you junior:

Artists pay for the recording, production and advertising of the record. They pay for the videos (depending if they have one or not). They pay the touring costs, then there's the merch crews, road crews, legal fees and such. So when you're downloading the albums, they're touring and LOSING money if you don't pay for their albums. Medium sized bands have to sell over half a million records to even begin to make money as a result of downloading. So by stealing their music, you're increasing the chances that bands who aren't actually very rich, won't be able to tour anymore, or record music. It's pathetic, unknowledgeable kids like you who have your heads stuck in the sand that think downloading is great. It's not.

So before you address me, know your shit first.

-AC

Allow me to go Rage style for a moment here.

While it is true that artists must pay for all the things you mentioned, it is also true that, oftentimes, the amount musicians earn off selling one record is pitiful. Artists must in many cases sell millions and millions of records to even pay off what they owe for recording, production, touring, etc. Meanwhile, the record company makes comparatively massive profits from the sales of the album, easily enough to pay off whatever money they loaned the artist for recording and production costs. However, in most cases the artist must still pay for all that themselves, despite the fact that the record company has long since gotten their money back.

So: when you buy a record, you are paying the artist him/her/themselves very very little. It is the record company that actually profits from record sales.

The music industry is pathetically unfriendly towards actual bands and artists, especially new ones. The reasoning of a musician supporting downloading and file-sharing is that they believe the music industry itself has no reason to exist and that by "stealing" (which is a crap term anyways imo) music you hurt the industry more than the musicians.

Personally, when it comes to an already successful artist, I hardly hesitate to download a song or two. The only time I would not is pre-release. I would be much less quick to download one from a new artist, on the other hand. I don't download entire albums, only a few songs from a band I've never heard, or rare songs. I don't like buying albums I have no idea about, because there are no record shops here where you can get a full refund on an opened CD.

SlipknoT
Shadows Fall - The War Within
Slayer - South of Heaven
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Slayer - Hell Awaits
Cradle of Filth - From the Cradle to Enslaved
Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power

Snoopbert
Love that one big grin

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Darth Revan
While it is true that artists must pay for all the things you mentioned, it is also true that, oftentimes, the amount musicians earn off selling one record is pitiful. Artists must in many cases sell millions and millions of records to even pay off what they owe for recording, production, touring, etc. Meanwhile, the record company makes comparatively massive profits from the sales of the album, easily enough to pay off whatever money they loaned the artist for recording and production costs. However, in most cases the artist must still pay for all that themselves, despite the fact that the record company has long since gotten their money back.

So: when you buy a record, you are paying the artist him/her/themselves very very little. It is the record company that actually profits from record sales.

Well it's not just the record company that profits is it? No. Am I saying that you should pay to satisfy the record company am I? No.

Fact of the matter is, artists earn off their albums. They don't if you don't buy them. Maynard is a multi-millionaire off record sales and that's with Tool. So obviously you're not as on point as you claim with the whole "Companies profit" thing. Though it DOES depend on the company.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
The music industry is pathetically unfriendly towards actual bands and artists, especially new ones. The reasoning of a musician supporting downloading and file-sharing is that they believe the music industry itself has no reason to exist and that by "stealing" (which is a crap term anyways imo) music you hurt the industry more than the musicians.

That's just ignorance though, isn't it?

"I don't care if you don't pay me for my hard work, just so long as the people who own the label get hurt."

The music industry isn't half as pathetically unfriendly toward artists as those who steal (coz that's what it is) the music and then complain about bands breaking up, not touring or worse, complaining about an album they never even paid for.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Personally, when it comes to an already successful artist, I hardly hesitate to download a song or two. The only time I would not is pre-release. I would be much less quick to download one from a new artist, on the other hand. I don't download entire albums, only a few songs from a band I've never heard, or rare songs. I don't like buying albums I have no idea about, because there are no record shops here where you can get a full refund on an opened CD.

Like I said posts ago. That's all fair enough. The financial side of things isn't subjective though.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
And don't tell me you like all the tracks on all the albums you like. Don't do it!

I don't, but I don't skip them.

-AC

koolruningz
Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
you know you can goto amazon.com and preview the tracks before you buy the album. I do it all the time, and it really helps you get a feel for what the album sounds like. They're only clips from each track, so you can listen to the whole thing when you buy it. If you like what you hear, buy it. If not, don't.

It works rather well for me, and plus I saved money by not buying albums I didn't think I'd like, albums I probably would have bought otherwise.

That is true for most albums on amazon, but unfortunately most of the ones i tend to buy (underground hip hop) dont have that feature. sad

RogerRamjet
"concept albums" like "Atom Heart Mother" and "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd are made to be listened in it's entirey, otherwise you'd miss out an unforgettable sound experience, in which a simple story is being told in a very complex musical story telling...

also great: "Tommy" by The Who, one of the greatest "rock operas" or "Pictures At An Exhibition" excitingly interpreted by Emerson, Lake & Palmer...(oh god..do i sound like some o' these geeks from "Time Life"??)

koolruningz
Fat Freddy's Drop - Based on a true story. New Zealand reggae, soul and dub band. I can listen to that album from start to finish quite happily. smokin'

WAF3001
My Chemical Romance- 3 Cheers For Sweet Revenge
The Used - either!
ICP- any!
Green Day- American Idiot
Avenged Sevenfold- any!
All-American Rejects- 1st album (don't know title)
Sum 41- Chuck
Linkin Park- all!

Darth Revan
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well it's not just the record company that profits is it? No. Am I saying that you should pay to satisfy the record company am I? No.

Fact of the matter is, artists earn off their albums. They don't if you don't buy them. Maynard is a multi-millionaire off record sales and that's with Tool. So obviously you're not as on point as you claim with the whole "Companies profit" thing. Though it DOES depend on the company.

This is true. Which is why I mentioned the thing about supporting new artists more than already successful ones. Maynard's a great guy and all, but frankly, he doesn't need any more of my money. It's fair to say I have mixed feelings about the buying/downloading music deal. On the one hand, I really believe the music "industry" does more harm than good. On the other hand, I must support the music industry if I am to support musicians...



Never said they were right, just explained what I believe to be their reasoning.



The music industry (record companies) has very little to do with punishing people who download music illegally. If that's what you mean. I'm not sure it is. I hope you're not blaming the fact that good bands sometimes release shit records on people who download music.

The reason I have an aversion to calling downloading "stealing" is that I have a hard time imagining how you can steal an idea, which is part of what music is. It's not illegal to print out articles off the internet, nor is it illegal to download pictures, as long as you don't sell them or take credit for creating them. Nobody is going to get you in trouble if you listen to a song you don't own at a friend's house. The other part of music, is, of course, the business, and the fact that there is money involved with the creation of an album. So while I suppose it is theoretically stealing, there's another part of it that is immaterial and can't be stolen.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Darth Revan
This is true. Which is why I mentioned the thing about supporting new artists more than already successful ones. Maynard's a great guy and all, but frankly, he doesn't need any more of my money. It's fair to say I have mixed feelings about the buying/downloading music deal. On the one hand, I really believe the music "industry" does more harm than good. On the other hand, I must support the music industry if I am to support musicians...

Well the way I see it, if I don't pay for an artists work, the fat cats in the executive offices are still getting paid, right? The person/people I support, are not. So either way, the industry is gaining and me not helping them gain isn't making a blind bit of difference except by taking away from the artist.

I think the "industry" gets a worse rep than it deserves. Yes record companies, for the most part, are vultures and yes for them, it's about the money because their job is to sell and make money. They're not supposed to be pillars of moral integrity. However, those companies also push hundreds of paper-person pop acts out there. "Well that sucks though." Yes, but wait.

That does more GOOD than it does harm. Why? Because then all the idiots will listen to the idiots. I don't want Britney fans listening to Radiohead. So while I find it disappointing that people are sheep, if putting out 10 boy bands stops another million idiots getting into Tool. I'm a happy man. Also, the more shit that gets bought, the more companies earn and the less pressure they put on their truer artists to bring in the money.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
The music industry (record companies) has very little to do with punishing people who download music illegally. If that's what you mean. I'm not sure it is. I hope you're not blaming the fact that good bands sometimes release shit records on people who download music.

I'm saying that record companies aren't half as unfair as the downloaders who spend their time taking free albums and moaning if they don't like it.

As for the shit records thing. I don't believe in that. Perfect example, St. Anger. People either liked it or hated it. Alot of people that hated it still downloaded it and still listen to it, instead of avoiding it. If it's good enough to spend your time listening to, it's good enough to pay for. End of story. Saying "It's not good enough to buy" is just a cop out for lazy people.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
The reason I have an aversion to calling downloading "stealing" is that I have a hard time imagining how you can steal an idea, which is part of what music is. It's not illegal to print out articles off the internet, nor is it illegal to download pictures, as long as you don't sell them or take credit for creating them. Nobody is going to get you in trouble if you listen to a song you don't own at a friend's house. The other part of music, is, of course, the business, and the fact that there is money involved with the creation of an album. So while I suppose it is theoretically stealing, there's another part of it that is immaterial and can't be stolen.

Well if you wanna be overly technical, the warnings before a DVD/Video specify what is and isn't legal. Most of them cite any use OUT of your own home, any lending or borrowing, is punishable by legal action. I'm not sure if that's still the case. However, it's a big world and it's nigh impossible to keep tabs on who's lending things to who, who's watching movies at who's house. But that's technically law, last time I checked.

Secondly, it's stealing because by definition stealing is taking someone's property without their permission. If you steal music off the net, you're taking a band's work without their permission and without paying. Stealing isn't bound by what's tangible and what isn't.

Maynard himself said it best: "It's inevitable that technology is going that way but at the same time our music is not yours to give."

You could argue that with technology and human nature, shit happens, and I'd agree. However, you don't have to be a part of that purely because everyone else is.

-AC

Eraserhead
D/L music from artists is wrong. K people? OK, problem solved.

Wow, the world is corrupt. Who would have thunk it? People steal everyday. People commit random crimes everyday. Does that make it better, no, but why get so worked up about it? It's cool, with me, that you feel as passionate about the situation as the artists themselves, but arguing with people on forums over and over does nothing but cause aggravation among them. Yes it's wrong, but when hasn't wrong things been done? Personally there's more important things in the world than whether or not Tool gets paid on every spin of their album. Does it suck that they do something they love but can't reap the full benefits? Most definitely. But is it surprising? No. People do illegal sh*t all the time. It's naive to think people will always do the right thing. Does that justify d/l music? Absolutely not. But hey, it's the world we live in. Arguing with people on message boards isn't going to make the situation better. Or even help the situation. If somebody wants to d/l an album they will. Obviously they don't care whether Tool get's enough money from them to buy whatever makes them happy. It's sad that people only think about themselves, and not the big picture but oh well. I'm not going to get worked up about something that #1 doesn't affect me and 2, wont change. Personally, I feel there's more important things to worry about.

If bands seriously are broke because they can't pay for studio time (ect ect) because of people d/l their music then maybe they should try to find another profession. Is that sad? Yeah. It's very rare to have a job you love and get paid for it. It sucks that they lose so much money. But that's the world we live in. People do illegal sh*t. People don't care about whether artists get paid or not. So lets just deal with the situation. People can whine and make their arguments forever, but at the end of the day things aren't going to change.

D/L music is wrong people. But if you feel that's what you want to do, more power to you. You have the choice to do as you please. If you want to sit and worry about whether Tool gets paid that's great. If you want to sit and steal their music, do your thing. I'm not here to judge you. I'm not here to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. But I do want to say arguing over and over and over about it on a forum isn't going to solve anything. Just waste peoples time.

Bottom line: It's wrong.
Bottom line: Do whatever you feel you must. You must live with the consequences, whatever they may be. Whether it's the RIAA or just your conscience. If people want to shake their fist at you because they don't like it, then so be it.

I respect morals, but most of all I respect choice. Even if I disagree with it. All this back and forth non-sense does nobody any good.

koolruningz
That was beautiful man. cry

Bardock42
Well i don't view Albums as a whole unseperatanble thing....
so
I can listen to The Smiths - Louder than Bombs (or any other album of them) , Neil Young - Greatest Hits, The Who - The Ultimate Collection, Muse - All Albums all the way through.....of course often it depends of my mood as to what song I'd like to listen to....

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Wow, the world is corrupt. Who would have thunk it? People steal everyday. People commit random crimes everyday. Does that make it better, no, but why get so worked up about it? It's cool, with me, that you feel as passionate about the situation as the artists themselves, but arguing with people on forums over and over does nothing but cause aggravation among them.

I'm not arguing am I? I'm discussing. The only one with a problem was that idiot. You, Revan, BackFire...I've discussed it peacefully with you all and for the most part, respected your choices because there is reasoning behind it. Where did you get the arguing from?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Yes it's wrong

As you said. Problem solved.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
but when hasn't wrong things been done? Personally there's more important things in the world than whether or not Tool gets paid on every spin of their album.

Right. But this is a music forum, not a "Problems of the World" forum. So we're discussing music. Your rationale: It's wrong but wrong things get done, so why worry about it? Is that your rationale?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Does it suck that they do something they love but can't reap the full benefits? Most definitely. But is it surprising? No. People do illegal sh*t all the time. It's naive to think people will always do the right thing. Does that justify d/l music? Absolutely not. But hey, it's the world we live in. Arguing with people on message boards isn't going to make the situation better. Or even help the situation. If somebody wants to d/l an album they will. Obviously they don't care whether Tool get's enough money from them to buy whatever makes them happy. It's sad that people only think about themselves, and not the big picture but oh well.

Right. So...what is the point you are trying to make? You just agreed with pretty much everything I have said. There's really no need to dip into discussion other than music because this is a music forum. Am I aware there are bigger problems? Of course. Are they relevant here? No.

"Downloading is small compared to people dying over the world." Yeah, and? We're not in the GDF, we're in the music forum.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm not going to get worked up about something that #1 doesn't affect me and 2, wont change. Personally, I feel there's more important things to worry about.

Like what? People dying over in some other country? That doesn't affect you either. So you're being illogical. Either way, you're going off on a tangent by telling me that which A) I already know and B) Is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
If bands seriously are broke because they can't pay for studio time (ect ect) because of people d/l their music then maybe they should try to find another profession. Is that sad? Yeah. It's very rare to have a job you love and get paid for it. It sucks that they lose so much money. But that's the world we live in. People do illegal sh*t. People don't care about whether artists get paid or not. So lets just deal with the situation. People can whine and make their arguments forever, but at the end of the day things aren't going to change.

*Checks watch* Yeah. I'd reply but you've said that about 5 times already, each time it was as admirable but each time it was as pointless. No offence.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
D/L music is wrong people. But if you feel that's what you want to do, more power to you. You have the choice to do as you please. If you want to sit and worry about whether Tool gets paid that's great. If you want to sit and steal their music, do your thing. I'm not here to judge you. I'm not here to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. But I do want to say arguing over and over and over about it on a forum isn't going to solve anything. Just waste peoples time.

Let me worry about "wasting" my time, ok? What happened to being all for choice? If you don't wanna waste your time DISCUSSING on here, don't reply to me. You're being quite hypocritcal here man. Moreover, why are you encouraging illegality and immorality? "If you wanna steal, do your thing"? That's a bit crappy isn't it? "If you wanna rape, it's wrong, but cool. Go for it."

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Bottom line: It's wrong. Bottom line: Do whatever you feel you must. You must live with the consequences, whatever they may be. Whether it's the RIAA or just your conscience. If people want to shake their fist at you because they don't like it, then so be it.

I respect morals, but most of all I respect choice. Even if I disagree with it. All this back and forth non-sense does nobody any good.

Why are you acting as if this is some war? It's a simple discussion. You are the only one taking it to heart. I take it seriously but you are actually taking it more serious than I am. Chill out.

You can't say you respect choice then say that we should stop this. I'm choosing to speak, whether you chose to reply or not is on you.

Either way, you shouldn't be encouraging people to do "whatever they want" because "whatever they want" might be illegal.

So to paraphrase you: I respect choice but I also respect morals and to many degrees, the law.

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not arguing am I? I'm discussing. The only one with a problem was that idiot. You, Revan, BackFire...I've discussed it peacefully with you all and for the most part, respected your choices because there is reasoning behind it. Where did you get the arguing from?

I was mainly talking about that guy. It is only a matter of time before somebody else joined in and made things even more annoying for people trying to post in a thread about albums they can listen to all the way through.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Your rationale: It's wrong but wrong things get done, so why worry about it? Is that your rationale?

I'm not saying that at all. You're saying that I'm saying that. I'm saying that you're so passionate about this subject in your discussions like it IS life or death. Tool loses some money. Get over it. It's wrong yes, but why argue with guys like Floo for? You seem to always know you're right, it just seems like a waste of time. Do as you please of course. I'm not telling you what to do anymore than you have to others.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Right. So...what is the point you are trying to make? You just agreed with pretty much everything I have said. There's really no need to dip into discussion other than music because this is a music forum. Am I aware there are bigger problems? Of course. Are they relevant here? No.

I meant that you hammer your point over and over. Why? We get what you're trying to say. That it's wrong. If you're so concerned about it, join a coalition or something.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Downloading is small compared to people dying over the world." Yeah, and? We're not in the GDF, we're in the music forum.

I find it ironic that you're telling me about what I'm doing "wrong". That I'm in the wrong forum regarding my comments, when you're talking about file-sharing in a thread titled "Albums you can listen to all the way through". Sorry I can't be as perfect as you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
*Checks watch* Yeah. I'd reply but you've said that about 5 times already, each time it was as admirable but each time it was as pointless. No offence.

None taken. You can cut my paragraphs into tiny sentences and criticize them all you want. Jerks have a choice just like anybody else.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let me worry about "wasting" my time, ok?

I'm been hypocritical? Why don't you let others worry about how they choose to obtain music? How people feel upon listening to an album for the first time? Oh, that's right. because you're AC. I see. You seem to like to worry. I guess I can't.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"If you wanna steal, do your thing"? That's a bit crappy isn't it? "If you wanna rape, it's wrong, but cool. Go for it."

OK, I'm talking about Tool losing a few bucks, not people raping people. And yes I know what you're trying to get at. Both are morally wrong, but totally different. Trust me, Tool isn't being raped.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you acting as if this is some war? It's a simple discussion. You are the only one taking it to heart. I take it seriously but you are actually taking it more serious than I am. Chill out.

You can't say you respect choice then say that we should stop this. I'm choosing to speak, whether you chose to reply or not is on you.

I'm not acting like this is a war. It just seems pointless to argue like a child when you've already proven your point. I'm not telling you what to do dude. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter. You obviously can do what you please, I think it's just annoying for me and others to have to sift through your paragraphs and posts about file-sharing when they're just trying to talk about what albums they can listen to all the way through.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Either way, you shouldn't be encouraging people to do "whatever they want" because "whatever they want" might be illegal.

Uh, maybe I should do what I choose and not what you think I "shouldn't" do. I know you're an elitist, but c'mon. I can say what I like just as you can.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
I was mainly talking about that guy. It is only a matter of time before somebody else joined in and made things even more annoying for people trying to post in a thread about albums they can listen to all the way through.

I handled it. As long as we keep on topic EVEN with those people.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm not saying that at all. You're saying that I'm saying that. I'm saying that you're so passionate about this subject in your discussions like it IS life or death. Tool loses some money. Get over it. It's wrong yes, but why argue with guys like Floo for? You seem to always know you're right, it just seems like a waste of time. Do as you please of course. I'm not telling you what to do anymore than you have to others.

I asked if it was your rationale. Please read it.

Why is how I choose to deal with people relevant? It's not.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I meant that you hammer your point over and over. Why? We get what you're trying to say. That it's wrong. If you're so concerned about it, join a coalition or something.

I don't hammer my point. I answer people. You wrote to me, I replied. Revan wrote to me, I replied. The reason I have the ability to is because I have answers to the questions.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I find it ironic that you're telling me about what I'm doing "wrong". That I'm in the wrong forum regarding my comments, when you're talking about file-sharing in a thread titled "Albums you can listen to all the way through". Sorry I can't be as perfect as you.

World issues aren't relevant. Downloading music is relevant to this forum. It's legally wrong to download, you've admitted this. So don't put it into quotation marks as if it's a dubious claim. It's morally wrong, to me and I can make a case as to why it is. A convincing one. I can't make you agree, and I respect that.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
None taken. You can cut my paragraphs into tiny sentences and criticize them all you want. Jerks have a choice just like anybody else.

Yep.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm been hypocritical? Why don't you let others worry about how they choose to obtain music? How people feel upon listening to an album for the first time? Oh, that's right. because you're AC. I see. You seem to like to worry. I guess I can't.

I stated my opinion that a first impression shouldn't be a download. I'm not worrying about it. If you think your first impression should be, then go for it. I was merely stating that I think a first impression should be how the artist intended. Not how Billy Bob Nobody on Limewire wants you to hear it. However, as I SAID BEFORE, if that's what you wanna do. Fine, as long as you buy the CD's you like then delete them after. Which you've said you do, right? Great.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
OK, I'm talking about Tool losing a few bucks, not people raping people. And yes I know what you're trying to get at. Both are morally wrong, but totally different. Trust me, Tool isn't being raped.

It's not that different of an analogy really, but that's a whole other forum. Point is, don't say to people that they can do whatever they want. Do they have that right? Yes. Is it right? No. So don't you think we shouldn't encourage it?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm not acting like this is a war. It just seems pointless to argue like a child when you've already proven your point. I'm not telling you what to do dude. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter. You obviously can do what you please, I think it's just annoying for me and others to have to sift through your paragraphs and posts about file-sharing when they're just trying to talk about what albums they can listen to all the way through.

A) I'm not arguing nor am I arguing like a child. Childish remark in itself.

B) Annoying? Then don't do it. You don't have to. Remember choice?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Uh, maybe I should do what I choose and not what you think I "shouldn't" do. I know you're an elitist, but c'mon. I can say what I like just as you can.

Do you not think it's a bit...I dunno, illogical? You know, to encourage people to do something we both agreed is wrong?

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
World issues aren't relevant. Downloading music is relevant to this forum. It's legally wrong to download, you've admitted this. So don't put it into quotation marks as if it's a dubious claim. It's morally wrong, to me and I can make a case as to why it is. A convincing one. I can't make you agree, and I respect that.

You seem to have missed the point. Illegal file-sharing is irrelevant to this topic. The topic is albums you can listen to without skipping a track. What does everything you've been talking about regarding file-sharing have to do with that?


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I stated my opinion that a first impression shouldn't be a download. I'm not worrying about it. If you think your first impression should be, then go for it. I was merely stating that I think a first impression should be how the artist intended. Not how Billy Bob Nobody on Limewire wants you to hear it. However, as I SAID BEFORE, if that's what you wanna do. Fine, as long as you buy the CD's you like then delete them after. Which you've said you do, right? Great.

When people d/l abums (where I d/l anyway) they d/l the whole album. Tracklisting and all. How does that affect how the artist intended it to be heard? Maybe they intended on you actually buying the album, but the experience of hearing the album in its entirety is exactly the way the artist intended. As long as the tracks are in order, I don't see how it's not like borrowing the disc from a friend and popping it in.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not that different of an analogy really, but that's a whole other forum. Point is, don't say to people that they can do whatever they want. Do they have that right? Yes. Is it right? No. So don't you think we shouldn't encourage it?
Do you not think it's a bit...I dunno, illogical? You know, to encourage people to do something we both agreed is wrong?

When did I encourage it? Let me make my point clearer for you. I was basically saying (speaking to the people who took part in your "discussion"wink don't do something just because AC says you should. You always have to be right about everything, so it might be best if they just ignore you and do what they feel is right for them. Instead of sitting here arguing back and forth. Having discussions with you is sometimes pointless because of the size of your ego and the fact you always have to be right. And know everything. At least you come off that way.

I respect you though. You have your beliefs and back them up. Sometimes it seems like you're on your high horse, telling others why they're wrong. But that's who you choose to be and I'm cool with that.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
You seem to have missed the point. Illegal file-sharing is irrelevant to this topic. The topic is albums you can listen to without skipping a track. What does everything you've been talking about regarding file-sharing have to do with that?

My very first post in this thread was regarding the topic. It obviously went off the specified topic but it still has a relevant thread running through it.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
When people d/l abums (where I d/l anyway) they d/l the whole album. Tracklisting and all. How does that affect how the artist intended it to be heard? Maybe they intended on you actually buying the album, but the experience of hearing the album in its entirety is exactly the way the artist intended. As long as the tracks are in order, I don't see how it's not like borrowing the disc from a friend and popping it in.

An artist makes an album to be released on a certain day in a certain way. If I sit here and download an album on release, it's NOT the same as me going to get that CD and enjoying it in my home. The sound quality MAY very well be the same or CLOSE to, but that's not the point is it? Quality of sound isn't the issue here.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
When did I encourage it? Let me make my point clearer for you. I was basically saying (speaking to the people who took part in your "discussion"wink don't do something just because AC says you should. You always have to be right about everything, so it might be best if they just ignore you and do what they feel is right for them. Instead of sitting here arguing back and forth. Having discussions with you is sometimes pointless because of the size of your ego and the fact you always have to be right. And know everything. At least you come off that way.

I don't always have to be right, I just happen to be. Difference is large there.

Second, you encouraged them to do what they feel is right. Which might be partaking in an illegal act and continuing to. So you did encourage it whether it was your intent or not. You acknowledge it's wrong, as do I. So instead of saying "If you like the album, buy the album. Downloading solely, is wrong", you say "Do what you want." They have the right to act on it, but is the act right? No.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I respect you though. You have your beliefs and back them up. Sometimes it seems like you're on your high horse, telling others why they're wrong. But that's who you choose to be and I'm cool with that.

Well if they are actually wrong, and I'm right, and I also happen to be in a discussion with them, yes I'm gonna tell them they are wrong.

People call me arrogant and egotistical but the biggest egos are those who can't accept that not everything comes down to subjective viewpoints.

-AC

Bardock42
Folks you are so off-topic it's not even funny......why not open a Piracy Thread or maybe there is one already...but you could really stop it now.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Darth Revan


The reason I have an aversion to calling downloading "stealing" is that I have a hard time imagining how you can steal an idea, which is part of what music is.

It's intellectual property.

Originally posted by Darth Revan

It's not illegal to print out articles off the internet, nor is it illegal to download pictures, as long as you don't sell them or take credit for creating them.

It can be if the author asserts their copyright.

Originally posted by Darth Revan

So while I suppose it is theoretically stealing, there's another part of it that is immaterial and can't be stolen.

It is theft: theft of intellectual property. You can steal intangible items.

Anyway...isn't this another topic?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Anyway...isn't this another topic?

Quite so Mister Von Doom

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My very first post in this thread was regarding the topic. It obviously went off the specified topic but it still has a relevant thread running through it.

No, sorry. You cluttered this thread waaaaay too much. It just keeps on going and going... with nothing to do with the actual topic. It's like you sit at your computer dying for a response just so you can reply and show people that you're right.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
An artist makes an album to be released on a certain day in a certain way. If I sit here and download an album on release, it's NOT the same as me going to get that CD and enjoying it in my home. The sound quality MAY very well be the same or CLOSE to, but that's not the point is it? Quality of sound isn't the issue here.

Are you serious? So just because you don't leave your house. Buy the album from a store. Go home and listen to it, you're not experiencing the album the same way as just d/l it, burning it, and popping it in your CD player? The whole experience of enjoying music is listening to it in its entirity. As long as you can hear each track the way it's supposed to sound, you're experiencing the music the way the artist intended it to be heard.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Second, you encouraged them to do what they feel is right. Which might be partaking in an illegal act and continuing to. So you did encourage it whether it was your intent or not. You acknowledge it's wrong, as do I. So instead of saying "If you like the album, buy the album. Downloading solely, is wrong", you say "Do what you want." They have the right to act on it, but is the act right? No.

Unlike you, I'm not here to judge people. Yes I encouraged them to do what they feel is right. What if what they feel is right is actually not to d/l the album? So by your logic I'm actually helping artists. I'm telling people to do what they feel is right, and what they might feel is right is not d/l any albums. Go me.

Bottom line is people make their own decisions. I'm sure if somebody told you to jump off a bridge you would, but just because one is encouraged to do so doesn't mean they have to do it. And if they do, it is their choice 100%. And again, I'm telling them to do what they feel is right, not what I think they should do. So i'm not encouraging them to do right or wrong.

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't always have to be right, I just happen to be. Difference is large there.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People call me arrogant and egotistical

This pretty much sums it all up.

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Bardock42
Folks you are so off-topic it's not even funny......why not open a Piracy Thread or maybe there is one already...but you could really stop it now.

Are you saying that this doesn't belong in this thread? Why? AC says that as long as it's a music forum anything goes... as long as it's about music.

And we all know AC just happens to always be right so keep your mouth closed.

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Anyway...isn't this another topic?

Yes, it is. Which is why I found it funny that AC was telling me I was in the wrong forum. I guess somebody hasn't mentioned to him that he's in the wrong thread.

I mean don't get me wrong... He's wrong but not as wrong as I am. No wait, he's right. No wait he's wrong. I don't know. I'm so confused because he called me a hypocrite.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
No, sorry. You cluttered this thread waaaaay too much. It just keeps on going and going... with nothing to do with the actual topic. It's like you sit at your computer dying for a response just so you can reply and show people that you're right.

Takes two, or more, to tango my friend. I can't take it off topic alone. It's been to do with music, and albums. Therefore it's still somehow relevant.

Now YOU are showing that you are sitting there choosing to do something which you earlier claimed was annoying, and not doing too well. So you're trying to make it about me personally. Lame and hypocritical, especially seeing as you are still replying.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Are you serious? So just because you don't leave your house. Buy the album from a store. Go home and listen to it, you're not experiencing the album the same way as just d/l it, burning it, and popping it in your CD player? The whole experience of enjoying music is listening to it in its entirity. As long as you can hear each track the way it's supposed to sound, you're experiencing the music the way the artist intended it to be heard.

"As long as you can hear each track the way it's supposed to sound, you're experiencing the music the way the artist intended it to be heard."

Right, that's how you see it. Not me. The artist didn't intend it to be heard on the net did he/she/they?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Unlike you, I'm not here to judge people. Yes I encouraged them to do what they feel is right. What if what they feel is right is actually not to d/l the album? So by your logic I'm actually helping artists. I'm telling people to do what they feel is right, and what they might feel is right is not d/l any albums. Go me.

Yes, that's one half of it. The other half being that it might be something you and I have BOTH agreed is wrong. So why actually encourage them to do something we BOTH KNOW is wrong?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Bottom line is people make their own decisions. I'm sure if somebody told you to jump off a bridge you would, but just because one is encouraged to do so doesn't mean they have to do it. And if they do, it is their choice 100%. And again, I'm telling them to do what they feel is right, not what I think they should do. So i'm not encouraging them to do right or wrong.

You're encouraging them to do anything, which for those viewing at home, consists of right and wrong.

You keep reverting back to "It's their choice". Would you tell a rapist not to rape? I would. Because we both know it's wrong, we both think he shouldn't do it. Like downloading, but clearly you're just trying to be awkward.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
This pretty much sums it all up.

How immature, quote a part of my post and then say it sums it up. It doesn't, you shortened it and edited it to your own purpose. I expected more.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Are you saying that this doesn't belong in this thread? Why? AC says that as long as it's a music forum anything goes... as long as it's about music.

And we all know AC just happens to always be right so keep your mouth closed.

You said I'm always right there. I never. You did.

And don't reply with "You think you do". Because I don't. If someone wants to come and prove me wrong, let them. Hasn't happened yet.

Stop making claims about me and then claiming that I believe that.

You posted to me first in this thread, not vice versa. So don't blame me for replying to you because A) You're doing the same and B) You kicked it off.

Now you can reply to me if you so wish, but bearing in mind you will be going against everything you said.

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Takes two, or more, to tango my friend. I can't take it off topic alone. It's been to do with music, and albums. Therefore it's still somehow relevant.

Now YOU are showing that you are sitting there choosing to do something which you earlier claimed was annoying, and not doing too well. So you're trying to make it about me personally. Lame and hypocritical, especially seeing as you are still replying.

I didn't say you did it by yourself. Did I? But go back and count who has posted the most times in this thread. Gee, I wonder who it may be...

My point was this thread is already ruined. So me continuing to post wont change that. I personally find it lame that you yourself can be hypocritical.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"As long as you can hear each track the way it's supposed to sound, you're experiencing the music the way the artist intended it to be heard."

Right, that's how you see it. Not me. The artist didn't intend it to be heard on the net did he/she/they?.

I said listening to it on a CD in my CD player. Not the net.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, that's one half of it. The other half being that it might be something you and I have BOTH agreed is wrong. So why actually encourage them to do something we BOTH KNOW is wrong?

You're encouraging them to do anything, which for those viewing at home, consists of right and wrong.

You keep reverting back to "It's their choice". Would you tell a rapist not to rape? I would. Because we both know it's wrong, be both think he shouldn't do it. Like downloading, but clearly you're just trying to be awkward.

Who am I, God?? What does it matter what I suggest? They don't have to listen to me. So why do I get the blame? I don't have to sit here and force my personal belief on others. So what if I did think it was wrong? Does that mean they have to too? I'm telling them they are their own person. Do what they feel is right to them which may or may not be right to me. I know you love to force your opinions on others. But personally I could care less if they d/l or not. Doesn't affect me one bit. They're not killing anybody. Raping anybody. Yes they may be stealing, and if it means that much to you why don't you run to the RIAA and rat everybody out.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How immature, quote a part of my post and then say it sums it up. It doesn't, you shortened it and edited it to your own purpose. I expected more.

How immature that you say it's immature when all you do is edit and shorten people's posts. I wouldn't expect anything less though. I'm wrong and you're right. I forgot we're in AC's universe.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You said I'm always right there. I never. You did.

I said you come off that way. And I'd bet the farm I'm not the only one who thinks so. Coincidence? Of course because you're never wrong.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If someone wants to come and prove me wrong, let them. Hasn't happened yet.

A) You post at a forum mainly for pre/teenagers 8-16. So it's not like you argue with geniuses everyday.

B) Get over yourself

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You posted to me first in this thread, not vice versa. So don't blame me for replying to you because A) You're doing the same and B) You kicked it off.

YOU STARTED IT!

How immature. I'm not blaming you for replying to my posts. Reply till this thread is closed. It really doesn't bother me like you claim it does. Post your heart out. This thread was done two pages ago.

Df02
ill tell you 1 album i can't listen to without skippin a track... Ignoto by yourcodenameis:milo - all but 1 of the songs on the album are great

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Takes two, or more, to tango my friend. I can't take it off topic alone. It's been to do with music, and albums. Therefore it's still somehow relevant.

Wow you've posted in here almost 30 times. You sure love dancing.

And you're way off topic dude. Give it up. Oh sh*t I forgot, you have a streak to protect. Nevermind then, you're right.

You're the Cal Ripkin Jr of KMC. thumb up

Lana
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It's intellectual property.



It can be if the author asserts their copyright.



It is theft: theft of intellectual property. You can steal intangible items.

Anyway...isn't this another topic?

Agreed, you can steal intellectual property. Also, in many cases, the person who created it sets the terms of the copyright, which is why there are artists that don't mind people downloading their music.

But I'll go with Revan's example of downloading/stealing art, since it's what I'm most familiar with. I am an artist, and I sell my art through a website. I am the sole copyright holder of any and everything I create, and I have set terms for people viewing, using, and buying my art. If someone wants to save my art to their computer, that's fine. If someone wants to print out their own copy, well, I don't like it as I really SHOULD be getting paid for that but it's not something that I can track. If someone takes and alters my art in anyway without first getting express permission from me, THAT is when I'm going to get nasty and crack down when I find out about it. Why? Because they're taking something that I spent hours on, changing a few things, and passing it off as their own. That is stealing. And you want to know who gets hurt when someone does that? Not the site I post my art on and sell through, not the other people who view my work, but me.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Lana
Because they're taking something that I spent hours on, changing a few things, and passing it off as their own. That is stealing.

Funnily enough there is also an intellectual property offence of 'passing off', but it applies to trademark style rights.

Although I'm now dragging us so far away from the point, we might have to get a cab back.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
I didn't say you did it by yourself. Did I? But go back and count who has posted the most times in this thread. Gee, I wonder who it may be...

My point was this thread is already ruined. So me continuing to post wont change that. I personally find it lame that you yourself can be hypocritical.

I'm not actually being hypocritical though am I? No. Saying I am doesn't mean I am.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I said listening to it on a CD in my CD player. Not the net.

Well then try reading my posts, I've already spoke about that.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Who am I, God?? What does it matter what I suggest? They don't have to listen to me. So why do I get the blame? I don't have to sit here and force my personal belief on others. So what if I did think it was wrong? Does that mean they have to too? I'm telling them they are their own person. Do what they feel is right to them which may or may not be right to me. I know you love to force your opinions on others. But personally I could care less if they d/l or not. Doesn't affect me one bit. They're not killing anybody. Raping anybody. Yes they may be stealing, and if it means that much to you why don't you run to the RIAA and rat everybody out.

I'm not telling you to FORCE it on others, try READING my posts properly before throwing a tantrum. I put my opinion out there very strongly because I believe in it. I could care less who agrees or not, so that's another one of your "Need to get more to back me up" points.

You say "yes they may be stealing but..." No but. Do you believe that what we have discussed (the downloading thing) is wrong? (You've said you do, countless times, but answer the question so we can end this thread.)

Originally posted by Eraserhead
How immature that you say it's immature when all you do is edit and shorten people's posts. I wouldn't expect anything less though. I'm wrong and you're right. I forgot we're in AC's universe.

I can't edit anyone's posts, first of all. Nor do I shorten. I break up quotes so that the person I'm replying to doesn't get confused. It's user friendly smile.

This is what I don't get. Why are you constantly claiming how superior I think I am? I don't. You clearly do. If you don't, stop saying it.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I said you come off that way. And I'd bet the farm I'm not the only one who thinks so. Coincidence? Of course because you're never wrong.

Who says I'm never wrong? It's not me. As I said in the previous post that you clearly ignored. So you tell me. Because I don't think I'm incapable of being proven wrong, I'm just saying it hasn't happened yet. So if you could reply without twisting it up or being childish, would be grateful

Originally posted by Eraserhead
A) You post at a forum mainly for pre/teenagers 8-16. So it's not like you argue with geniuses everyday.

Yes. So?

Originally posted by Eraserhead
B) Get over yourself

You get over me first. Coz it's clearly you with the monumental view of how great I am. Because I don't share that view.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
YOU STARTED IT!

How immature. I'm not blaming you for replying to my posts. Reply till this thread is closed. It really doesn't bother me like you claim it does. Post your heart out. This thread was done two pages ago.

Stop backing yourself up by being childish. I was pointing out the fact that you actually did take it upon yourself to reply to me. Nobody to blame but yourself, sadly.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
And you're way off topic dude. Give it up. Oh sh*t I forgot, you have a streak to protect. Nevermind then, you're right.

You're as off topic as me, but.....can you show me where you're getting evidence for the following:

A) I think I'm always right.

B) I am protecting a streak.

C) I think I'm great.

Not what YOU gather, I want factual proof. Undeniable proof, that I believe those things (despite me saying I don't, and you saying I do). Go on.

The thing is, I've actually tried countless times to end this saga and you keep reply with more philosophical "I don't care but posting anyway" nonsense.

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not actually being hypocritical though am I? No. Saying I am doesn't mean I am.

I meant you were by telling me I was out of place and in the wrong forum when you yourself are out of place in the wrong thread. Just because this is a music forum doesn't mean you can go into any thread and talking about music related topics regardless of what the post is actually about.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not telling you to FORCE it on others, try READING my posts properly before throwing a tantrum. I put my opinion out there very strongly because I believe in it. I could care less who agrees or not, so that's another one of your "Need to get more to back me up" points.

You say "yes they may be stealing but..." No but. Do you believe that what we have discussed (the downloading thing) is wrong? (You've said you do, countless times, but answer the question so we can end this thread.

Let me and try and make this clear. My opinion is I don't care how you choose to listen to your music. Do what you like. I don't care how you choose to listen to Tool. Have a blast doing what you do.

Now let me "end this thread once and for all". When I made that rant I was just trying to just stop the whole argument/"discussion". Like, "lets all agree with AC so we can make him happy and not have to read his 50 posts about something that's totally off topic". I agree that d/l music and making a profit off of an album is wrong. I don't consider d/l itself to be wrong because I do it and still support the artist. I can't speak about what anybody does because I don't know exactly how they d/l. Give me a specific person and his actions and I'll give you my opinion on it. As a whole, I think d/l helps a lot of artists that I listen to.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I can't edit anyone's posts, first of all. Nor do I shorten. I break up quotes so that the person I'm replying to doesn't get confused. It's user friendly smile..)

See what I mean? You talk down to me like I'm some child. That's not only acting superior, but also being an assh*le. There's your proof right there. I'm not your little brother, so don't talk down to me like I am.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Who says I'm never wrong? It's not me. As I said in the previous post that you clearly ignored. So you tell me. Because I don't think I'm incapable of being proven wrong, I'm just saying it hasn't happened yet. So if you could reply without twisting it up or being childish, would be grateful

You clearly act as if you're superior to individuals as seen in this thread alone. Just look at the way you talk down to people.

Do you think people call you arrogant and egotistical for nothing?? Yea, it's because they're wrong and obviously don't know you're right roll eyes (sarcastic)

I don't have to spell it out and present evidence to you like this is some trial. "Why must you act like we're in court".


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You get over me first. Coz it's clearly you with the monumental view of how great I am. Because I don't share that view.

You're obviously so cocky you don't even notice how you really are. Every discussion has been how you are right about this, or how I'm wrong about that. As well as with everybody else. I don't need to present anything. There's 5 pages of it.

You love to argue or have "discussions". Every thread I see you in you respond in a matter of minutes. Do you really just sit there and wait to prove people wrong? To show people what you know and what they don't? Do you have a life outside of the internet? Personally this whole situation has made me want to go outside and do something. What loser posts in a thread over 30 times trying to discuss how they feel about a off topic? I'm done having this "discussion with you. You're right, as always, I'm to blame. Instead of being the adult and realizing that all you do is prove how I'm wrong and I should have just dropped the discussion. But honestly my pride wants me to stay here and keep on with this discussion. But I actually have to go to work in two hours and can't stay on my computer all day ranting about anti-piracy. Maybe you can take a cue and get some sunshine too.

I know you're sitting there, clicking refresh every 5 seconds looking for my response. Well here it is. And I'm choosing to leave this discussion. Mostly because I actually have a job and can't sit on my computer all day. So have fun on your 100th post. The real world is proud of ya.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
I meant you were by telling me I was out of place and in the wrong forum when you yourself are out of place in the wrong thread. Just because this is a music forum doesn't mean you can go into any thread and talking about music related topics regardless of what the post is actually about.

I'm discussing music in a music forum. You were discussing the state of the planet...in the music forum. Am I off topic? Yes. Am I in the right forum? Yes. Are you? Not for what you were saying.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Let me and try and make this clear. My opinion is I don't care how you choose to listen to your music. Do what you like. I don't care how you choose to listen to Tool. Have a blast doing what you do.

Now let me "end this thread once and for all". When I made that rant I was just trying to just stop the whole argument/"discussion". Like, "lets all agree with AC so we can make him happy and not have to read his 50 posts about something that's totally off topic". I agree that d/l music and making a profit off of an album is wrong. I don't consider d/l itself to be wrong because I do it and still support the artist.

A) It's not an arguement. I'm not arguing with anyone.

B) Don't be so presumptuous as to assume everyone agrees with me for the sake. We both know that's not true. You weren't posting essays just to stop me replying, because you agree with me. So let's not lie.

Either way, you answered my question. It's wrong. So let's not encourage it. That's all that need be said.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I can't speak about what anybody does because I don't know exactly how they d/l. Give me a specific person and his actions and I'll give you my opinion on it. As a whole, I think d/l helps a lot of artists that I listen to.

Coz you end up paying, which is good and I've been saying that for ages. You also agree that SOLELY downloading is wrong. We agree, but you're indirectly justifying that which we disagree with.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
See what I mean? You talk down to me like I'm some child. That's not only acting superior, but also being an assh*le. There's your proof right there. I'm not your little brother, so don't talk down to me like I am.

What the shit? I used a smiley. Where are you getting this from? You accused me of editing people's posts, I showed you I'm not. Then I used a smiley. Wherein did you deduce that I talk to you like a kid? That's you subconsciously imagining it, because that's not what I do.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
You clearly act as if you're superior to individuals as seen in this thread alone. Just look at the way you talk down to people.

What, like the above part? Where you directly blew it out of proportion? I'm not liking the distinct lack of factual proof here. I don't think I'm superior, so don't claim I think I am. Don't do all that "You clearly...", crap. Says who? Not me.

The funny part is, everyone claims I'm all about me, yet you are the ones who make the debates ABOUT me. I don't love myself half as much as people here love to hype me up.

You say you don't need proof that I say all that, but you do. Because I don't take too kindly to people telling me that I think and say things that I do not. Don't make claims that aren't true.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
You're obviously so cocky you don't even notice how you really are. Every discussion has been how you are right about this, or how I'm wrong about that. As well as with everybody else. I don't need to present anything. There's 5 pages of it.

Well, on this subject, I am right and I've given FACTUAL (not opinionated) evidence as to why. In the subjective (opinion) areas, I've said I respect your views because I know I can't force them on you. So you're just making the bullcrap up.

Stop sitting there saying all this "You don't notice how you really are." Yes I do, you don't. You notice what you wanna notice. Don't talk shit you can't back up, especially when it's about me and not my posts.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
You love to argue or have "discussions". Every thread I see you in you respond in a matter of minutes. Do you really just sit there and wait to prove people wrong? To show people what you know and what they don't? Do you have a life outside of the internet? Personally this whole situation has made me want to go outside and do something. What loser posts in a thread over 30 times trying to discuss how they feel about a off topic?

Well well well, he's finally cracked. I love to discuss......here. Because it's a messageboard. When I'm on the net, I reply in minutes because I'm fast at it and I browse KMC whenever I'm on here. You've been sitting there replying as long as I have dude, so don't call the kettle black here.

If there's one thing I hate, it's when people try shit, get turned away and then start lobbing pathetic insults everywhere. I've realised that you're not as smart, calm and collected as once though. Only until you get pissed that the person isn't backing down. Then you start calling people losers. Sad. Once again, hypocritical. "Don't talk to me like a kid", but it's ok to throw blind and personal insults. You disappoint me.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I'm done having this "discussion with you. You're right, as always, I'm to blame. Instead of being the adult and realizing that all you do is prove how I'm wrong and I should have just dropped the discussion. But honestly my pride wants me to stay here and keep on with this discussion. But I actually have to go to work in two hours and can't stay on my computer all day ranting about anti-piracy. Maybe you can take a cue and get some sunshine too.

I already have, there's a time difference you know.

See what I mean? You talk shit you don't mean. "I'm not bothered by this". Yeah yeah. You can't stand the fact that since you came to this thread and posted to me, you've been getting countered FAIRLY wherever you disagreed, despite me being totally respectful to your points of view and even giving you references. You've spent your time claiming you don't care when we both know that you know you've got nothing. So you threw the first insult.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
I know you're sitting there, clicking refresh every 5 seconds looking for my response. Well here it is. And I'm choosing to leave this discussion. Mostly because I actually have a job and can't sit on my computer all day. So have fun on your 100th post. The real world is proud of ya.

And I'm proud of you for going from respectable poster to Ya Krunk'd Floo version 2 as soon as things aren't going your way.

Good luck with the insult throwing. It's got you far. Aka nowhere. Once again you've proven NOTHING other than you have a short fuse and can't take being wrong, despite accusing me of it.

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Do you think people call you arrogant and egotistical for nothing?? Yea, it's because they're wrong and obviously don't know you're right roll eyes (sarcastic)

Again you're right and I'm wrong. I can't stand that I didn't "win". I don't know how I'm going to live with myself.

Do you have a job man? Or do you just live in your parents basement? I personally have to finish getting ready and leave for mine. maybe when I'm off we can finish this discussion. Well, no. Because I lost. Right?

Damn Floo, so I'm with you now. Even though AC acted the same way you did when you guys were arguing. But you know, when he does it it's in response. So that means it's ok to act childish. We just have to admit that AC is superior in every way roll eyes (sarcastic)

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Again you're right and I'm wrong. I can't stand that I didn't "win". I don't know how I'm going to live with myself.

Do you have a job man? Or do you just live in your parents basement? I personally have to finish getting ready and leave for mine. maybe when I'm off we can finish this discussion. Well, no. Because I lost. Right?


laughing

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Again you're right and I'm wrong. I can't stand that I didn't "win". I don't know how I'm going to live with myself.

Your words chief.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Do you have a job man? Or do you just live in your parents basement? I personally have to finish getting ready and leave for mine. maybe when I'm off we can finish this discussion. Well, no. Because I lost. Right?

Hahaha, do you have any idea HOW many internet kids use that retarded "basement" retort?

I don't live in the States, so I don't go by the same time as you. Secondly, allow me to answer your question with a question: Why, if you have a job to go to, are you so inable to stop replying? You've been "leaving" for 3 posts now. If you are trying to imply that I'm the loser, you're not doing a good job at all. How funny would it be if you were late for work because of me? "I'm leaving but my pride wants to stay and continue". Despite you having NOTHING to say, because we agree on downloading. So you're continuing for no reason. I'm not chaining you down, or keeping you here. You wanna leave, leave http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/smilies/cartoon/laugh.gif

You didn't "lose" anything but the respect I had for you not being an idiot. It wasn't a win or lose debate. You just decided to become Ghandi half way through and go on pointless philosophical musings.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Damn Floo, so I'm with you now. Even though AC acted the same way you did when you guys were arguing. But you know, when he does it it's in response. So that means it's ok to act childish. We just have to admit that AC is superior in every way roll eyes (sarcastic)

So very typical. "I'm with you now".

Why are you CONTINUALLY calling me superior? Do you think I am? Genuine question. Do you think I'm superior? We've established that I don't, yet you keep saying it. So simple question: Do you think I'm superior? Yes or no? One answer will suffice. If no, then why say it? If Yes, then there you go. It's not my fault.

So there, question for you to answer, because I'm VERY curious.

Also, if you and I agree on the downloading issue, we can agree that this has been continued by your grudge against me. Hope you're proud. Either way, this has gone on long enough. I have proven all I need to prove, on AND off topic. So being that this is no longer musical by any means. This is my last length reply to you.

If you wish to reply to this post here, quote it and PM me. Because I don't think, regardless of your grudge, that either of us want to clutter up the forum more than we already have.

I'll be looking forward to your PM.

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Do you think people call you arrogant and egotistical for nothing??

Again you cut my paragraphs to answer only what you want... but what's your response to this? Why do you think people call you arrogant and egotistical? Why is it that I'm not the only one to think you're an egomaniac? It's not just me who thinks so, obviously. And what's your response to these people? That they have the ego. Ah, of course. You can't be the arrogant jerk because you're AP and they're the ones who obviously have the ego. You're so perfect and we're all so imperfect. You seem to be right about your character assessments, but we are not. Sounds like an egomaniac to me. Wake up. People don't think you're an egotistical jerk for nothing. There's some truth to that whether you like it or not.

Just look at you. "I'm not as smart as you thought I was". Sorry to disappoint you AP. Next time I'll try to be whatever you want me to be. Since you don't seem to get sarcasm let me tell you straight out. Don't insult my intelligence just because you like being an elitist assh*le. I don't have to live up to your "standards". Get a life...

Which leads me back to my next question. Do you have a job? Or do you still live off of your parents like a bum? To answer your question, no I wasn't late to work. Just like your mum and daddy, I have bills to pay. So don't flatter yourself by thinking I would be late on account of you.

This isn't the only thread you've hijacked and ruined with your egotistical rants. Correct? You love to argue. No, wait... you don't argue right? You just discuss. For some reason I thought arguing meant to give reasons for or against something. Something you clearly do over and over. Argue.

Don't play stupid with me. Of course you're not going to come out and say "I'm superior to you". Your actions and words do. You speak to people like you have all the answers. You're very arrogant and nobody can ever show you up. because you have this HUGE ego to stroke.

So say what you want about me. You're just an egotistical jerk. Feel free to give me my character assessment because i know you will. And why PM you when I know the first thing you're gonna do is check to see if I replied. Just so you can tell me how "idiotic" and "wrong I am" about a particular sentence. That's all the life you have. Showing people up in forums. I know you're dying for a reply. You can't get enough of yourself.

Just another thread hijacked by an egomaniac. Nothing new as we all can see.

Alpha Centauri
How ironic? I didn't cut your paragraphs to answer only what I wanted. I never cut parts OUT of your post. I did it so you would know what parts I replied to. I'm not unaware that people think I'm a jerk. I just don't care, because "haters" will hate won't they?

Answer this: Why do you keep calling ME perfect and yourself imperfect? Why do YOU keep calling ME superior? Why? Answer me this. Don't answer with "Coz you think you are." I don't.

All you ever do is post about how perfect, superior and supreme I am, then tell me that I think that, despite me saying I don't. If I don't and you don't, why say it? Simple question.

You've degenerated from someone who's opinion I respected, into an insulting fool because things didn't go your way.

First of all, no I don't live off my parents, way to make an ass of yourself. Secondly, what do my PARENTS have to do with this? And you call ME off-topic? For real? Thirdly, why do you keep saying how off topic I am, then go and make things personal? I was off topic but at least it was music. What are you gaining from turning the debate to me? I'm not discussing me any further. If YOU wanna discuss ME, then PM me. Like I requested. I've got no problems going at it with you, just don't see why we have to clutter up the thread with stuff that is completely non-musical and I suggested you PM me.

Did I or did I not say, if you wanna continue this personally, about me and about you, PM me? Yes I did. So why are YOU the one bringing personal issues into this thread? I took it off topic with you and others, but it was about music. You aren't doing that, so you have the burden to save the thread. I said we should stop....HERE. You chose to continue.

I argue my point. I don't argue for the sake of disliking people. You're all more or less screen names to me.

Lets look at the fact that I don't believe I'm superior and I've kept saying so. You are the one claiming I'm perfect. You are. If you think I am, I'm flattered. I don't.

Thread hijacked? I told you to PM me if you wanted to take it personal, save cluttering up the thread more than we have.

Did you do so, or did you reply IN the thread? You know what you did? You replied in the thread.

Here's some food for thought, you walking ignorami, if I have such a huuuuge ego, why am I suggesting we take PERSONAL stuff AWAY from the thread...? Moreover, why are you continually posting here complaining about the thread being ruined when you are now ruining it worse? Because you aren't interested in saving the thread, you post here instead of PMing me because you want everyone to see what you're saying. Makes you wonder who the egomaniac really is.

I've not cut ANYTHING out of your posts, NONE of it is edited, ALL of it is a spanking. So if you have anything more personal to say to me and you DON'T care about showing off like a baby, PM me and we'll deal with it. Post again and prove me right. I'm not asking you to stop, just stop here. Like I said, PM me, or prove me right. I'm gonna send you a PM, inviting you to continue this. You will either ignore it, or you won't. Either way, if you ignore IT, I'll ignore you. Dust.

Oh, and it's AC. I really hope this doesn't get in our way of being friends.

-AC

Eraserhead
laughing

I knew you were waiting in the shadows for my response. God you need a life. Me too, I might add. I'm doing the same thing you are, but in my case this is the first time I've gone off topic in a thread for pages and pages. While you are a Vet.

And I love it how you brush everybody off and call them "haters". They aren't so much haters as they are pointing out that you are indeed an egotistical jerk. So while they may be "haters", their point is still valid. You're a jerk who has a huge ego to stroke. Being the egomaniac you are, you can't simply say, yes I am. This is who I am. Instead you rant about how they're "haters" and how it is them who have the ego. It's always "them" and never you. can you actually admit that you are egotistical? Is it really that we're all wrong and you're the innocent victim of our character assessment?

And why do I have to listen to you? Are you really that hard headed, or can you see that this thread is already ruined. Me posting about sharks wont make a difference. let alone talking to you directly. This thread is DONE. Might as well discuss this here since you've made this whole thread about you and your views. Why else would your post count in this thread be up to 40???

Remember, it takes two to tango. Yea I'm responding in this thread, but so are you. Again you want to be "right". You want to "win" every argument you're in. You know no other way to live. You say there's nothing to win yet you say this was a "spanking". So I guess I "lost" and was "spanked".

Feel free to PM if you like. Feel free to reply to my post. It really doesn't matter which one you choose. You're still going to be an egomaniac.

I bet you love to see your words on screen. Must get you off. 40 posts, i have no other explanation.

Alpha Centauri
Like I said, PM me if you wanna continue personally. I'm not denying I'm guilty of taking it off topic, but seeing as this gone way beyond music and into personal (thanks to you, because you made it this way), you have now BEAT me in terms of who has ruined the most.

Fact of the matter is, everyone here can see that we're both in the wrong. But everyone can see you took it to new idiotic levels.

I made you repeated offers of keeping it out of this thread, you said the thread was ruined so why not continue, despite the fact that it could be saved if we ended it. But not you because you crave the attention and you crave my attention, but you won't admit it. If a mod comes to close this, or worse, comes to ban...I won't be the one. Because I've PMed you (to which you replied with ignorance, claiming you wanted to do it here) and I've said that you've tried making it more off topic by going personal. You came off worse than you started, shame really.

So on that note, seeing as you dodged everything I said - every question - because you have nothing to say and KNOW that you're a presumptuous, pseudo-clairvoyant, I'm gonna drop this and say it was fun. I enjoyed it, a great deal. Always fun to interract with my fans. It IS ok to be a fan you know, you don't have to say "You're superior" with sarcasm, we know you think it.

It's a shame that you ended up looking to worst in all this. You're not a bad kid at heart are you champ?

A for effort.

-AC

Eraserhead
Don't try and "save' this thread now. It's useless buddy. You ruined this thread a long time ago. Maybe you should have suggested this 4 pages ago. What's done is done. Not only do you hijack threads in the music forum, but you do so in others as well. It's just who you are.

Eraserhead
And since you're the one who's not "idiotic", why can't you be the bigger man and just not respond?? You seem to like to give out this advice, why don't you follow it? But no, your ego wont allow that. You'll continue to respond because you have nothing better to do.

Alpha Centauri
Reverse psychology doesn't work on me kid. You do realise you are doing all the things you are dissing me for, right? You don't have self hate issues do you?

-AC

Eraserhead
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm gonna drop this and say it was fun. I enjoyed it, a great deal

What happened AC? I thought you were gonna drop it? Did your ego think otherwise?

Alpha Centauri
I dropped the essays, like I said I would. Stop quoting my ego considering you think higher of me than I do.

Quick question: You said I won't stop because I have nothing better to do and I need a life, why aren't YOU stopping? Hmm? Go on, I'll let you speak champ.

-AC

Eraserhead
Looks like I have a fan. big grin

You simply can't get enough of me. I dig the personal insults too. They're great.

Alpha Centauri
Stop imitating, being hypocritical and ripping me off, just answer the question, then I'll be satisfied.

-AC

Eraserhead
Well answer this question first....

What's bigger?

Your ego?

Or that hideous nose of yours?


ha, seriously though, these personal attacks mean nothing by now. Neither do your questions. Or mine. This thread is one big pile of shit.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Quick question: You said I won't stop because I have nothing better to do and I need a life, why aren't YOU stopping? Hmm? Go on, I'll let you speak champ.

-AC

Right there buddy ^.

Go right for it. Answer it. If the answer is pride (like you said it was), that would mean you are everything that you claim I am. Thus rendering everything you've said, pointless.

But go for it. Answer.

-AC

Eraserhead
Because this is my free time. I don't hijack threads, but in this case I made the exception because really you're my buddy and I love hearing what you have to say. You on the other hand, have done this before, no? Shows how much free time you have. Obviously.

Ooh, I like this. Now answer mine big grin

Originally posted by Eraserhead
Well answer this question first....

What's bigger?

Your ego?

Or that hideous nose of yours?

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
Because this is my free time. I don't hijack threads, but in this case I made the exception because really you're my buddy and I love hearing what you have to say. You on the other hand, have done this before, no? Shows how much free time you have. Obviously.

Ooh, I like this. Now answer mine big grin

So then, you do it for the same reasons as I. Making everything you've said, false and hypocritcal. You spend your free time here, replying to me with pathetic insults, yet I'm the one without a life. Please. Your question is a pointless, dumb personal insult. Shows how desperate you are. Even now you're resorting to insults. Just like Ya Krunk'd Floo. Ironically, he got owned also. There MUST be some kind of connection between idiots who come at me, and me owning them...

Conclusion: You do all this for the attention despite saying I do. You're a hypocrite. Deal with it and get over me.

-AC

Eraserhead
How mature, you "owned" me. I guess we can both be immature.

Originally posted by Eraserhead
What's bigger?

Your ego?

Or that huge nose of yours?


http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~tthomps6/owned-cat.jpg

oooh look, I owned you!

Eraserhead
hey


buddy

your ego can have the last word

k

ready

set

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Eraserhead
How mature, you "owned" me. I guess we can both be immature.



http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~tthomps6/owned-cat.jpg

oooh look, I owned you!

How ironic, you posting a picture of a cat...haha. Almost too funny.

I don't want the last word, I want you to acknowledge that you are being extremely hypocritical by doing what you claim I have done, despite me trying to end this.

-AC

knight
The Kinks - One For The Road
Big Country - The Crossing
Dave Davies - Glamour
Queen - Live At Wembley '86

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by knight
The Kinks - One For The Road
Big Country - The Crossing
Dave Davies - Glamour
Queen - Live At Wembley '86

Slightly off topic, I feel.

koolruningz
^ Very good. laughing

Wolf Dog
laughing sorry if this is off topic:
Off the top of my head:
Quasimoto - The Unseen
At the Drive In - Relationship of Command
Madvillian - Madvilliany
Radiohead - Kid A
Cannibal Ox(self titled)

Victor Von Doom
Kid A is too amazing. I'd say it applies to all Radiohead albums though.

Pezmerga
Smashing pumpkins - Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
nine Inch Nails - And all that could have been
nirvana - Nevermind, In Utero
Sublime - Sublime and 40oz to Freedom
Bush - sixteen stone
White Stripes - White Blood Cells
Almost any Queen

Wolf Dog
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Kid A is too amazing. I'd say it applies to all Radiohead albums though.

Yah that's true, if you're in the right Radiohead mood.

draconigena
Most recently; Dropkick Murphys - The Warrior's Code

BOPRecruit 16
poison's greatest hits
brides of destruction: here come the brides rock smokin'

WAF3001
meteora

StinkFist462
Autolux - Future Perfect

WAF3001
The Sickness (Disturbed)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.