ROTS Windu, Drallig & Kenobi vs Dooku, Grevious & Ventress

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Kam Solusar
If it was
Windu vs Ventress= windu (2 min)
Kenobi vs Grevious= kenobi (8 min)
Dooku vs Drallig=dooku (5 min)

The jedi wud win but if it was

Windu vs Dooku= ? (6 min)
Kenobi vs Ventress= ? (6 min)
Drallig vs Grevious= drallig (8min)

i dont know?

darthsith19
Mace vs. Dooku = Mace
Obi vs. Grievous = Obi
Cin vs. Asajj = Cin

Sorgo
Originally posted by darthsith19
Mace vs. Dooku = Mace
Obi vs. Grievous = Obi
Cin vs. Asajj = Cin

Mace VS Dooku = Dooku

Mace lost when they were training, Dooku could do it again. Dooku is far more experienced and lets his anger fuel his dueling, making him a fast and deadly opponent. Mace's style is ment for dark-siders, being that you have to contest anger into the form, making Mace held back with his form. Dooku wins.

Obi VS Grievous = Obi

We have seen Obi cut off two of Grievous' hands and kill him with a gun. Kenobi wins this.

Cin VS Asajj = Asajj

Cin trained all the Jedi that died on Geonosis and was killed by Anakin who was using one hand. Asajj gave Anakin a nasty scar and survived from him. She was also trained by Dooku. Asajj wins.

DarthMaul9123
mace and dooku are even it's up to chance with or without the facts ....though everything should be built with facts to aid your argument

Makashi
Mace vs. Dooku=Dooku

Obi vs. Assaj=Assaj

Cin vs. Grievous=Grievous

Sorgo
Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
mace and dooku are even it's up to chance with or without the facts ....though everything should be built with facts to aid your argument

Dooku beat Mace without using Form II. Be realistic.

DarthMaul9123
right ...it depends on the match up of the fighters

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
right ...it depends on the match up of the fighters

No. It depends on who goes down first and in this case it would be Grievous without a doubt no matter if he has to face Drallig, Kenobi or Windu.

Now that would leave:
Kenobi + Drallig + Windu VS Ventress + Dooku

That might be:
1.)Kenobi + Drallig vs Dooku AND Windu vs Ventress
2.)Kenobi + Windu vs Dooku AND Drallig vs Ventress
3.)Windu + Drallig vs Dooku AND Kenobi vs Ventress

Case 1:
Windu would kill Ventress faster than Dooku can kill Drallig and Obi-Wan so you end up with Dooku facing at least two if not all three Jedi one of them being Windu. I don't think he can take that.

Case 2:
Kenobi and Windu are too much for Dooku. I don't know if Drallig can defeat Ventress but I think Mace + Kenobi will take Dooku out before Ventress is able to defeat Drallig (which might not happen).

Case 3:
Windu and Drallig vs Dooku is again too much for Dooku. Ventress might defeat Obi-Wan but not as fast as Windu and Drallig will defeat Dooku.

So...in any case I have to say that Mace, Obi-Wan and Drallig are going to win here with maybe one of them (most likely Cin) getting killed by Dooku.

Illustrious
Originally posted by Sorgo
Dooku beat Mace without using Form II. Be realistic.

When did it ever say Dooku beat Mace without Form II?

Darth Faunus
Sorgo, where are you pulling this from? And Nai, thank you, well said.

Darth_Glentract
Windu and Dooku stalemate.
Ventress beats Cin.
GG fights Obi-wan for a while.
Ventress helps GG. Obi-wan loses.
They help Dooku and win the fight.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Sorgo, where are you pulling this from? And Nai, thank you, well said.

I have been told he didn't use Form II During the fight.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Sorgo
I have been told he didn't use Form II During the fight.

Did Supershadow tell you that?

Sorgo
Ok, Dooku would hand Mace's ass to him.


Apparently, according to the Opinions of other Forums i have currently visited and reviewed, Mace is considered "The best Swordsman in the Galaxy" and Dooku is "The greatest duelist in the Galaxy" and apparently, being the greatest Swordsman in the galaxy means you get to own the greatest duelist in the galaxy.


Since when?

Let us consider the facts here.

Mace Windu:

- Has fallen to Dooku before, whether it be a training match or not, Mace has lost to Dooku once.
- Mace Windu's form of Lightsaber Combat requires you to place emotion into your strikes for an extra power plus. Mace Windu is very strict with the Jedi Code and probably would not place emotion into his attacks, making it very difficult for him to properly use his Form.
- I have heard from people....

"But Sorgo, Mace Windu has gained experience since his fight with Dooku!"

Do you think Dooku has been sitting on his arse drinking Martini's all day? No! Obviously Dooku has gained experience as well.



Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus:
- Has beaten Mace Windu while training session, so why can't he do it again?
- Count Dooku's form of Lightsaber Combat requires a considerate amount of aggression. While Dooku's fight with Windu, Dooku was a Jedi. Dooku probably followed the Jedi Code and did not place aggressive emotion into his Lightsaber combat during the training session or any other fight. Now that he is dismissed from the Jedi and is now a Sith Lord, he probably has administered his aggression into his Form, making him an even deadlier opponent than previously.



Dooku rips Mace apart. End of story.

Darth Faunus
Sorgo's not SS'd. And on topic, that's not really practical, considering that the duel occured slightly before TPM, within the range of a decade, it's just not. Dooku had to have been a highly skilled Makashi practioner by the time he reached his sixties. Why would he use a different form, and against Mace Windu of all people?

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Did Supershadow tell you that?

Nope. Some idiot at this forum did a while back.

Darth Faunus
Originally posted by Sorgo

Mace Windu:

- Has fallen to Dooku before, whether it be a training match or not, Mace has lost to Dooku once.
- Mace Windu's form of Lightsaber Combat requires you to place emotion into your strikes for an extra power plus. Mace Windu is very strict with the Jedi Code and probably would not place emotion into his attacks, making it very difficult for him to properly use his Form.
- I have heard from people....

"But Sorgo, Mace Windu has gained experience since his fight with Dooku!"

Do you think Dooku has been sitting on his arse drinking Martini's all day? No! Obviously Dooku has gained experience as well.

- True, no arguments there.
- Why would Mace use a form that he has to struggle to use? Why would he create it? Windu is probably the only Jedi other than Anakin and Yoda who truly cuts loose, who is truly unleashed when he fights. He uses his emotions, and well. To the point where he toes the the line between Lightg and Dark every time he uses that lightsaber.

Originally posted by Sorgo

Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus:
- Has beaten Mace Windu while training session, so why can't he do it again?
- Count Dooku's form of Lightsaber Combat requires a considerate amount of aggression. While Dooku's fight with Windu, Dooku was a Jedi. Dooku probably followed the Jedi Code and did not place aggressive emotion into his Lightsaber combat during the training session or any other fight. Now that he is dismissed from the Jedi and is now a Sith Lord, he probably has administered his aggression into his Form, making him an even deadlier opponent than previously.

- Vader's beaten Luke before. Why couldn't he do it again? People change you're not going to get the same results every time.
- Count Dooku's style requires precision and level-head. . . successful and effective aggression comes hand in hand with that. And his feelings don't really matter, beecause if Dooku went ape with aggression, he'd get chopped in two. His style requires focus; his emotions are used to fuel his power in the Force, as shown against Yoda. His contempt and new-found darkness made him powerful, not a better duelist.

Now, Dooku may well defeat Mace in a Battle of the Force. But certainly not before Grievous and/or Assaj are defeated by their respective opponents.

Sorgo
- True, no arguments there.
- Why would Mace use a form that he has to struggle to use? Why would he create it? Windu is probably the only Jedi other than Anakin and Yoda who truly cuts loose, who is truly unleashed when he fights. He uses his emotions, and well. To the point where he toes the the line between Lightg and Dark every time he uses that lightsaber.

Mace Windu does not place emotions into his Form, being the reason he did not fall to the dark side as Depa and Sora did. They both fell because they put their emotions into their fighting with the form. If Mace put his aggression into the Form, you would see it. He may put a little but, but he doesn't place a high enough level of aggression for it to even be relevant.



- Vader's beaten Luke before. Why couldn't he do it again? People change you're not going to get the same results every time.
- Count Dooku's style requires precision and level-head. . . successful and effective aggression comes hand in hand with that. And his feelings don't really matter, beecause if Dooku went ape with aggression, he'd get chopped in two. His style requires focus; his emotions are used to fuel his power in the Force, as shown against Yoda. His contempt and new-found darkness made him powerful, not a better duelist.

Ape? No one said anything about him going Ape. Where in hell do you get this shit from?

Dooku obviously held back placing aggression into his Form when he was a Jedi. Makashi does require aggression. This being why most Sith use it and most Jedi do not.



Now, Dooku may well defeat Mace in a Battle of the Force. But certainly not before Grievous and/or Assaj are defeated by their respective opponents.

Dooku may even just defeat Windu with his Lightsaber, if he is in the mood, so to say.

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Sorgo
Mace Windu does not place emotions into his Form, being the reason he did not fall to the dark side as Depa and Sora did. They both fell because they put their emotions into their fighting with the form. If Mace put his aggression into the Form, you would see it. He may put a little but, but he doesn't place a high enough level of aggression for it to even be relevant.

It's clearly said that Vaapad uses dark side powers (thereby emotions) and channels them but keeping them under control. And it is an aggressive fighting style since it's based on Juyo. Just have a look at Mace Windus face after he killed Jango Fett and tell me what you see there.



Dooku vs Mace would be a close fight. It will take a lot of time no matter who you think will win it. Now Grievous will get owned by either Obi-Wan or Cin Drallig in less than a minute and then it's no matter if the one that defeated Grievous will help the one that fights Ventress (who will be probably defeated by Cin or Obi-Wan too) or Mace fighting Dooku. Dooku or Ventress will both go down facing two of the Jedi thereby Cin, Mace and Obi-Wan win.

Captain REX
I don't really get why people think that Vaapad was meant for putting emotion into the power of the attacks. Mace Windu, strictly a Jedi, created it. Bit odd for him to create it a specific way but not perform it that way. Duh?

Dooku is a far better duelist than Windu. When it comes to all-around combat, like fighting droids and so on, I'm sure Windu has had his days, but when it comes to Jedi vs. Jedi combat, Dooku would take this, seeing as it is his specialty.

Makashi is defensive, isn't it? How is that agressive?

Anyway...

Obi-Wan would take out Asajj (with some difficulties, maybe) or Grievous if matched against them, but Dooku would put him down.

Drallig would most likely take down Asajj, but not Grievous or Dooku. Drallig was a great swordsman, but Dooku would crush him, and he sounds like the type to just try attacking straight-on, which Grievous would own hiim with superior (robotic) strength and speed.

Windu would most likely take down Asajj or Grievous quite well.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
It's clearly said that Vaapad uses dark side powers (thereby emotions) and channels them but keeping them under control. And it is an aggressive fighting style since it's based on Juyo. Just have a look at Mace Windus face after he killed Jango Fett and tell me what you see there.



Dooku vs Mace would be a close fight. It will take a lot of time no matter who you think will win it. Now Grievous will get owned by either Obi-Wan or Cin Drallig in less than a minute and then it's no matter if the one that defeated Grievous will help the one that fights Ventress (who will be probably defeated by Cin or Obi-Wan too) or Mace fighting Dooku. Dooku or Ventress will both go down facing two of the Jedi thereby Cin, Mace and Obi-Wan win.

Ok, well, tell me where it says Vapaad "clearly uses Dark Side powers", then i'll believe this load of horseshit.

Mace controls his emotions when he uses it. He does not use the Dark side to fuel it, being one of the reasons he advanced it to Vapaad. He doesn't use it to it's full investment.

Did you see Kenobi's face when he killed Maul? Or Luke's face when he dispatched Vader's hand?

darthsith19
Mace lost when they were training, Dooku could do it again.
1. That was when Mace was alot less experienced. he gained a lot of power just between TPM and ROTS. Anyway, starwas.com says Mace and Yoda are on par and Yoda was beating Dooku. But if you insist:
Windu vs. Grievous = Windu
Obi-Wan vs. Asajj = Obi-Wan
Cin vs. Dooku = Dooku
Obi-Wan and Mace vs. Dooku = Dooku gets owned
Cin trained all the Jedi that died on Geonosis
And all the jedi that lived. But you can't expect him to train them to be invinsible.
and was killed by Anakin who was using one hand.
Yeah, and he also trained Anakin.
Asajj gave Anakin a nasty scar and survived from him.
That was a much weaker version of Anakin then the one Cin fought.
She was also trained by Dooku.
But Cin was trained by Yoda.
Asajj wins.
I don't think so. In LOE Dooku says Cin could beat Grievous. In another book Grievous beats Asajj (I think her and Durge at the same time). Also, if Asajj was stronger than Grievous why isn't she the commander of the CIS?
Do you think Dooku has been sitting on his arse drinking Martini's all day? No! Obviously Dooku has gained experience as well.
Yeah, but not as much as Mace, IMO. Mace was fighting alot, especially during the Clone Wars, while most of the practice Dooku got was from sparring with his minions.

Sorgo
Originally posted by darthsith19
Mace lost when they were training, Dooku could do it again.
1. That was when Mace was alot less experienced. he gained a lot of power just between TPM and ROTS. Anyway, starwas.com says Mace and Yoda are on par and Yoda was beating Dooku. But if you insist:
Windu vs. Grievous = Windu
Obi-Wan vs. Asajj = Obi-Wan
Cin vs. Dooku = Dooku
Obi-Wan and Mace vs. Dooku = Dooku gets owned
Cin trained all the Jedi that died on Geonosis
And all the jedi that lived. But you can't expect him to train them to be invinsible.
and was killed by Anakin who was using one hand.
Yeah, and he also trained Anakin.
Asajj gave Anakin a nasty scar and survived from him.
That was a much weaker version of Anakin then the one Cin fought.
She was also trained by Dooku.
But Cin was trained by Yoda.
Asajj wins.
I don't think so. In LOE Dooku says Cin could beat Grievous. In another book Grievous beats Asajj (I think her and Durge at the same time). Also, if Asajj was stronger than Grievous why isn't she the commander of the CIS?
Do you think Dooku has been sitting on his arse drinking Martini's all day? No! Obviously Dooku has gained experience as well.
Yeah, but not as much as Mace, IMO. Mace was fighting alot, especially during the Clone Wars, while most of the practice Dooku got was from sparring with his minions.


Ah, the same newbish comment as usual.

"Mace gained experience after their fight."

So did Dooku, and if Cin was trained by Yoda, how come Cin lost to Anakin and Asajj held up against Anakin?


And all the jedi that lived.

That was a very silly statement. He didn't train Obi Wan, Mace or Anakin. He also never trained Kit Fisto, Plo Koon or some other Jedi that survived.

Dooku still got practice. He also did some fighting on Geonosis and fought a few Jedi. The practice Mace got wasn't against Jedi, it was against droids and Bounty Hunters. Any practice Dooku had was with Jedi.

Like Rex said, Dooku's form is the only one that sorely concentrates on One VS One Lightsaber Combat. And Dooku has mastered Makashi to the highest degree. Dooku would rip Windu to shreds.


Obi-Wan and Mace vs. Dooku = Dooku gets owned

No. As you have seen, Dooku is no weasel when it comes to fighting two opponents at once. Dooku would rip Kenobi up and then concentrate on destroying Windu, which would sooner or later.... Happen!

Captain REX
Vaapad is NOT meant to use the Dark Side! It never says that anywhere, it only says that it is dangerous for a fighter to use because it is so agressive.

Cin Drallig did not train everyone in the way you'd think, like Padawans. He, like Yoda in Episode II, taught the Younglings how to pick up the lightsaber, but not master it.

Darth Faunus
Sorgo, that's just fanboyish. It really is. Dooku would be able to put Obi down for a second or so, like his uber kick, or Force push. But with Mace on him, he isn't going to be able to permamently or even truly effectively put Obi out of the fight. Just admit for once that Dooku might actually lose. . .

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Sorgo, that's just fanboyish. It really is. Dooku would be able to put Obi down for a second or so, like his uber kick, or Force push. But with Mace on him, he isn't going to be able to permamently or even truly effectively put Obi out of the fight. Just admit for once that Dooku might actually lose. . .

Fanboyish? As i recall, Obi Wan was sliced at his shoulder and leg. Dooku could have gone full swing, buddy. And Dooku might be able to hold them both, who knows.

Kam Solusar
I think that ventress could take cin or obi wan if she had time. 1on 1 with obi she only lost wen she was under water. and she killed 18? jedi in the clone wars?

Darth Faunus
Originally posted by Sorgo
Fanboyish? As i recall, Obi Wan was sliced at his shoulder and leg. Dooku could have gone full swing, buddy. And Dooku might be able to hold them both, who knows.

In AOTC, when he was not nearly as good a swordsman as he had become by ROTS. Would he lose to Dooku in a duel? Hell yeah. A good Force attack or a well-placed strike could take him out. But when Obi is taken out in both movies, he is alone. Given, in ROTS, he has Anakin, but he was literally kicked away. Not gonna happen with Mace. Now, the two would be hard-pressed to take out Dooku, for sure. But Dooku doesn't really stand a chance here.

Admiral Akbar
Originally posted by Sorgo
Mace VS Dooku = Dooku

Mace lost when they were training, Dooku could do it again. Dooku is far more experienced and lets his anger fuel his dueling, making him a fast and deadly opponent. Mace's style is ment for dark-siders, being that you have to contest anger into the form, making Mace held back with his form. Dooku wins.

Obi VS Grievous = Obi

We have seen Obi cut off two of Grievous' hands and kill him with a gun. Kenobi wins this.

Cin VS Asajj = Asajj

Cin trained all the Jedi that died on Geonosis and was killed by Anakin who was using one hand. Asajj gave Anakin a nasty scar and survived from him. She was also trained by Dooku. Asajj wins.

Cin vs Assaj is a little hard to determain

Admiral Akbar
Originally posted by Sorgo
Fanboyish? As i recall, Obi Wan was sliced at his shoulder and leg. Dooku could have gone full swing, buddy. And Dooku might be able to hold them both, who knows.
I agree, obi wan is no threat here. Lets skip the toying with obi wan. He goes down fast as hell. And Mace vs Dooku for me is too much to handle.

Darth_Glentract
I'm not sure if this is true or not; I'm no lightsaber expert, but it looked to me like Obi-wan was using form four in the beginning of his fight with Dooku. This goes with the book(its better than nothing). Dooku is the best at form two, but Obi-wan was the best at form three. If he had been using this, I think he could have posed much more of a threat. If you are wondering why Obi-wan and Anakin fought like this, it was to get Dooku overconfident.

Makashi
Dooku would throw Obi-Wan around like a twilek trick and duel Mace. After a while Dooku defeats Mace. Grievous and Assaj would overpower Drallig. Grievous on his own would probably waste the guy. . .

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
In AOTC, when he was not nearly as good a swordsman as he had become by ROTS. Would he lose to Dooku in a duel? Hell yeah. A good Force attack or a well-placed strike could take him out. But when Obi is taken out in both movies, he is alone. Given, in ROTS, he has Anakin, but he was literally kicked away. Not gonna happen with Mace. Now, the two would be hard-pressed to take out Dooku, for sure. But Dooku doesn't really stand a chance here.


Now what in god's name makes you think Windu is unkickable? Is he anti-kick? Does he put Anti-kicking cream on in the morning? Didn't think so.

And do you really think that they mean on par with power? This is a widely thrown assumption. For all you know, it means they are on par as positions in the Council or on par with the force. It does not say they are on par with saber skill OR force.

I am sure the databank would elaborate whether they were on par with skill or force, but they didn't, so it proves nothing.

Dooku would rip Kenobi apart, then go on to face Mace and defeat him once again to hold his title as the "Charasmatic Sith Lord".

Darth Faunus
First off, I never said he was "unkickable." But do you really think a swordsman of Mace's calibre is going to go down that easily? I don't. And even if he does, I doubt they'll be anything like was done with Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I don't even know what the other lines are about. . .

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
First off, I never said he was "unkickable." But do you really think a swordsman of Mace's calibre is going to go down that easily? I don't. And even if he does, I doubt they'll be anything like was done with Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I don't even know what the other lines are about. . .


Why wouldn't he? If Dooku's kick can hurt a twenty something year old in his prime, what's it gonna do to a fifty something year old man?

Mace is the Orders second greatest swordmans, coming second to Yoda.


He isn't invincible. A kick will still hurt him. Windu being a great swordsman doesn't tell dick to waht a kick will do to him. Come on now.

Darth Faunus
I doubt he'd leave himself open to something like that. . . but let's forget this and get on with our lives. . .

Yoda qel Droma
Mace beat dooku,only just, but he wud, Obi wan i think could take ventressand then help Drallig then botyh help mace beat dooku, but if it was, dooku vs drallig, cin could hold him up for a while. Mace could beat ventress quick and then help obi wan beat gg and the 3on 1

Sorgo
Originally posted by Yoda qel Droma
Mace beat dooku,only just, but he wud, Obi wan i think could take ventressand then help Drallig then botyh help mace beat dooku, but if it was, dooku vs drallig, cin could hold him up for a while. Mace could beat ventress quick and then help obi wan beat gg and the 3on 1


"Wud" Mace really beat dooku?111?!11on3on3?

Can you provide solid evidence of how Mace is gonna go about defeating Dooku?

Darth Faunus
He's our first 'Tember Member.

Sorgo
Wikipedia is such bullshit! They said that Dooku started training with Form II when he turned to the Dark Side. This is impossible. Unless he managed to master a Form within two years.




WIKIPEDIA SHALL BE EATEN BY THE CHINCHILLAS!

Darth_Janus
If he mastered the best lightsaber form in two years, he is pimper than anyone else in Star Wars. But that is bogus information.

Release the chinchillas!!

Darth_Nefarus
I thought he trained with 3, then moved on to 2 as he got older.

Darth_Janus
We don't see Dooku use Form III. If anything, he probably knows some Ataru and some Shien, considering his movements in ROTS.

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