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Remember, if in KOTOR 2 the exile falls to the dark side, he discovers how to sever someone's connection to the force completely from Kreia/Darth Traya.

That's a lie. The reason why the force connection is "cut", is found in cut conversations. Vash explains that when someone experiences a vast change in the light - dark spectrum, the force connection is cut.

She tells you that this happened when her apprentice Kaah briefly fell to the darkside, she could no longer sense him and thought him dead.

This is in the case of Traya "falling" back to the darkside. She doesn't fall, but undergoes a massive change in appearance.

Oh, and what the hell does that matter to this duel!?

Well, there's just one thing: Kreia was able to sap people instantly. We only see the exile do that once he's formally defeated opponents. Big difference there.

I don't remember that, but I think Sidious would win. To me, the Exile is just above an average Jedi Master. He's a little better than Kavar. Sidious could take him and the Handmaiden at the same time.

Well, I haven't gone through KOTOR 2 enough to have much of it memorized and I haven't played it for 4 months... I've forgotten much, but I know that the exile was actually pretty strong. He defeated Nihilus, Sion, and Traya. If you ask me, that's a pretty impressive resume.

The Exile was helped by Visas and Mandalore. He didn't defeat Sion, at least not per se. Traya held back in the last fight anyway.

Traya let him when. Sion was pretty much suicidal, and Nihilus required help from Canderous and whats her name. The three Jedi that he might have killed, but probably didn't, were all close fights that he had a chance to recover from between battles. THat is why I put him just above them.

... Well, I'm not really too much of a stickler for detail. But I still think that the exile would at least have a chance against Sidious.

I'd agree.

The exile wouldn't stand a great chance against sisious. Traya is about as powerful as sidious, she could've beaten the exile but chose not to.

Traya is far more powerful than Sidious. The Exile would have a good chance though.

Originally posted by Dimmimar
The Exile was helped by Visas and Mandalore. He didn't defeat Sion, at least not per se. Traya held back in the last fight anyway.

I still have a hard time believing that Traya held back in that fight. Despite the fact that gameplay proves jack squat if you always base things on assumtions then your never going to get strait answers. Like for instance when Kreia claims looking at Revan was like looking at the Heart of Force...people seem to think she is a dubious source for this. Why? What reason would she have to lie about something like that? The game desiners didn't put her in there as a false source of info they put her in there to help clear up all the unanswered questions of Revan's fall ect. I think people tend to forget that its only a game and when you start breaking down every diolouge into its base meaning and reason then you go into the realm of a true nerd. While only a fool takes everything at face value a game is limited to how in depth it can be.

While it is highly probable that Kreia was holding back in the fight between the Exile...we really don't know now do we?

Sidious will win...

Originally posted by Rand al'Thor
I still have a hard time believing that Traya held back in that fight. Despite the fact that gameplay proves jack squat if you always base things on assumtions then your never going to get strait answers. Like for instance when Kreia claims looking at Revan was like looking at the Heart of Force...people seem to think she is a dubious source for this. Why? What reason would she have to lie about something like that? The game desiners didn't put her in there as a false source of info they put her in there to help clear up all the unanswered questions of Revan's fall ect. I think people tend to forget that its only a game and when you start breaking down every diolouge into its base meaning and reason then you go into the realm of a true nerd. While only a fool takes everything at face value a game is limited to how in depth it can be.

While it is highly probable that Kreia was holding back in the fight between the Exile...we really don't know now do we?

No, any more than it is possible that Ragnos could defeat Sadow. He could smash his head on a rock.

You just have to go with what is likely, most of this forum is filled with hypothetical theories, which are based upon the likely-hood of one character beating another.

The exile has fought battles before, and killed dark jedi and Sith. No one else that Sidious fought did.

True, you raise a valid point Janus. The Exile probably has more combat experience as well. It depends on how long the Mandalorian Wars lasted.

I don't see how the Exile has suddenly dropped to such a low level. . .

Actually, the Mandalorian Wars lasted something like three years, didn't they?

the exile would destroy sidious. As far as im concerned sidious never became that powerful but was very intelligent, manipulative and persuasive. The exile was able to learn numerous force techninques and became a great duelist which is way more than can be said for sidious. The best case scenario for sidious is to run away or hide, he would never beat the exile.

Originally posted by Lord Janus
The exile has fought battles before, and killed dark jedi and Sith. No one else that Sidious fought did.

Where did the Exile kill Jedi and Sith ? He didn't participated in the Jedi Civil war and there were no Sith / Jedi to kill in the Mandalorian Wars. And please remember that those Sith soldiers are no real "Sith" and you can stealth through parts of the game without fighting anybody (e.g. Trayus Academy).

So the only people the Exile had to kill were:
- Nihilus (with the help of Visas and Mandalore)
- Sion (talking him into death)
- Traya (who might have faked the fight)

At least it is told that the Exile was an "average Jedi" with the only special thing about him being that he creates connections to other people through the force. Would an "average Jedi" be able to defeat Sidious ? I pretty much doubt it.

nai fohl that reasoning is not actually right. Do you really think he used stealth in the trayus academy. He killed loads of dark jedi, not only in the trayus academy but also in freedon nadd's tomb. When is it told that exile was an average jedi.

Actually his reasoning is 'nai' perfect. 'Nai', 'nigh', get it?

. . .

You're going by your gameplay experience. meaning that just because you fought through twenty Dark Jedi, the canonical story of KOTOR 2 had the Exile fight through twenty Dark Jedi. Wrong. Because by that logic, just because I was swarmed and nearly killed by a group of Jedi in the ROTS game, Anakin was nearly killed by a group of Jedi in the canonical story.

So, for all we know, the Exile could simply have turned on his stealth equipment and snuck through the Academy.

And FYI, in a holo-recording, Jedi masters are seen speaking to eachother, and while discussing the Exile, mention him as 'an average Jedi', although I doubt the wording was just that, Nai.

Vrook calls him a "mediocre Jedi." but Vandar calls him an "exceptional leader."

So? He is a great leader, thats for sure. He has Charisma and he is popular. Not to mention people bond to him really fast, now that doesn't say anything about his fighting skills.

Originally posted by kingkman
nai fohl that reasoning is not actually right. Do you really think he used stealth in the trayus academy.

It doesn't matter what I think. The fact is that you CAN stealth through the entire academy and thereby the Exile could have done that.



LOL. Great. The Exile did never enter Freedon Nadds tomb because while his mates attacked the tomb he was busy fighting on Onderon...



If you repair the droid at the landing space on Dantooine in KotoR 2 you will see a holo-recording with Vrook and Vandar (I think) and they are referring to the Exile as "average Jedi".

Vrook is the only one that calls the Exile mediocre, Vandar seems to praise him.

Vrook and Vandar look at different things. I trust Vrook more then I do Vandar on this particulair situation.

Vrook is a pessimistic bastard, Vandar seems more level headed and far less bitter.

Vrook got angry there, because he recognise that the other Padawans were quick to do what the exile did.

Does somebody have the entire conversation? It will be easier to judge the situation then.

I don't have KotOR handy at the moment, so I can't get a quote sorry.

I do, but I would have to get to Dantooine first, and I dont'feel like doing that....

ok i forgot about the freedon nadd part but as you said, you used stealth which means he could have been able to do that, i killed them all which therefor means that he was also able to do that aswell. and vrook only calls him average because he was pessemistic and dissapointed thta he went to fight in the mandalorian wars

No it doesn't mean he could do either.

He could perhaps kill them all or he could sneak past them all. Point is we don't know, the Exile only has a few people that he has to kill... We don't know if he can or can not kill the others, we don't know if he can or can not sneak past them. We simply do not know.

no fishy i was replying to nai fohl."The fact is that you CAN stealth through the entire academy and thereby the Exile could have done that. " Thta is what nai fohl said and so i replied that using that reasoning the exile could have killed all those dark jedi because i was able to in kotor2

No, Nai Fohl said since you CAN stealth through the temple, it would be wrong to assume anything happened, hence it is invalid in an argument -- invalid means doesn't go one way or the other, it is simply thrown out.

Get a vocabulary kid.

"It doesn't matter what I think. The fact is that you CAN stealth through the entire academy and thereby the Exile could have done that. " im sorry but this is what he said. i dont think anyone can interpret that into whta you just said

Could have done that.

Do you need me to get you the definition on "could." Simply because he COULD have done it by virtue of gameplay does not mean he did. Therefore, the argument there is invalid, as it's a dynamic gameplay experience. You can't make a conclusion off of that.

yeah i know illustrious but the argument was not that but whether he could kill all of those dark jedi.

Ahhh. The question as old as time. Did the Exile sneak through the entire game?

My answer. HELL NO!!! Do you really think that the game makers would expect someone to play the entire game without ever engagin in cobat? That just doesn't fit in with my logic.

Even if the Exile did use stealth, he had to have beaten Sion. Sure he attacked Sion's will, but he forced him to regenerate in the area of three times. That, added with killing Nihilus and Kreia, means he has to be a pimp fighter. I still don't think he would be enough to defeat Sidious though.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
My answer. HELL NO!!! Do you really think that the game makers would expect someone to play the entire game without ever engagin in cobat? That just doesn't fit in with my logic.

It doesn't matter what the game makers expected. I didn't expect a Jedi sneaking through the death star without attacking anybody just to give up his life when he's engaged in combat but it still happened in ANH.



You can switch to solo mode and whipe Nihilus with Visas only. And well...how strong are Nihilus and Sion that the Exile must have been a "pimp fighter" to defeat them ?

That's BS. You're calling upon gameplay.

Darth Nihilius - The Exile had help.
Darth Scion - The Exile broke his will.
Darth Traya - Traya wasn't looking to kill the Exile.

1. He'll have no help here, as this is just Sidious vs The Exile.
2. I'd have to say Sidious possesses more will than Scion. Not likely any chance of willbreaking here.
3. If Sidious didn't have any plans for the Exile, he'd go medieval on his ass.

Sidious wins. He possesses immense power in the Dark Side and has above average lightsaber ability.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That's BS. You're calling upon gameplay.

That was the point; to prove invalid the use of gameplay for canonical facts.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Darth Nihilius - The Exile had help.
Darth Scion - The Exile broke his will.
Darth Traya - Traya wasn't looking to kill the Exile.

1. He'll have no help here, as this is just Sidious vs The Exile.
2. I'd have to say Sidious possesses more will than Scion. Not likely any chance of willbreaking here.
3. If Sidious didn't have any plans for the Exile, he'd go medieval on his ass.

Sidious wins. He possesses immense power in the Dark Side and has above average lightsaber ability.

Darth Nihilus - He still defeated him. A win is a win.
Darth Sion - You have to kill him at least once before you can break his will.
Darth Traya Kreia - How do you know Traya wasn't trying? She was pratically sucking him when he was a hole in the force. After he killed Nihilus, he was no longer that hole. She may very well have wanted to do away with him.
Darth Traya Atris - She was a member of the Jedi Council and he pwned her.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Darth Nihilus - He still defeated him. A win is a win.


He didn't do it in a 1vs1.



Yes...but what does that tell you ? We don't know how strong Sion is compared to Sidious or .



Assume she was trying. Again we don't know how strong Kreia is...



a)
Atris was the librarian of the Jedi. Something like Jocasta Nu or Yaddle (who got owned by Anakin / a thermaldetonator)

b)
The Handmaiden nearly "pwned" Atris being the weakest of the Echani sisters. So what ?

The Handmaiden wasn't the weakest considering she killed the other five.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Handmaiden wasn't the weakest considering she killed the other five.

Where did she do that ? Did I miss something ?

When she attacked them. You don't remember that? Right before she tried to kill Atris but got pwned.

Yeah, the Handmaiden killed all of her sisters in one fight, and then lost horribly to Atris. What game did you play, Nai?

Erm...I just went to check it again and we actually never see the Handmaiden fighting her sisters. I always thougt Atris killed them since you hear them all dying at once and you don't see the fight - and Atris did need the Handmaiden while she didn't need the others.

(Just because Atris walks into the room quite cool without even asking what had happened despite the fact there are 5 dead people lying around there.)

That's an odd assumption to make, when you consider that the Handmaiden is in her ready stance with her weapon drawn and her sisters dead all within close proximity to her.

I played as a woman so I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Then why comment?

Originally posted by Lord Janus
Then why comment? \

Bored I guess...

Originally posted by Lord Janus
That's an odd assumption to make, when you consider that the Handmaiden is in her ready stance with her weapon drawn and her sisters dead all within close proximity to her.

Well...I never really thought about it since you never see the fight even though you WANT to fight them. So I always thought that Atris walked in and killed them all before the fight starts to get informations from the Handmaiden she needs (having to protect the handmaiden because the sisters might kill her).

And yes...it seems like an odd assumption but I simply never thought that the Handmaiden would be able to kill the sisters (just because I hardly ever used her as a char in groups).

Yeah, I do remember you arguing that Atris was weak because the Handmaiden without a lightsaber could kill her. This is bias based on your gameplay experience. PLay the game again, and make Hanmaiden a jedi.

Originally posted by Lord Janus
Yeah, I do remember you arguing that Atris was weak because the Handmaiden without a lightsaber could kill her. This is bias based on your gameplay experience. PLay the game again, and make Hanmaiden a jedi.

What would making the Handmaiden a Jedi do ?
You have to defeat Atris or at least make her lose all her lifepoints to continue the story.

Atris at least defeats the Handmaiden, yes. But whe don't know if this is a Jedi Handmaiden, a normal handmaiden or (just to exeggerate a little bit) a Handmaiden without weapons and armor.

Canonically, she would be a jedi. Kreia says that the handmaiden revives the order. But I get your idea. Still, don't discredit Atris so easily. For one thing, it's a gameplay mechanic that says Atris must lose hitpoints for the scene to move on; it's not a real life occurence. It's not like Luke was fighting Vader in ESB and when Vader was low on HP he pwned Luke and it went into cutscene.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't remember that, but I think Sidious would win. To me, the Exile is just above an average Jedi Master. He's a little better than Kavar. Sidious could take him and the Handmaiden at the same time.

The Dark Jedi Exile is what Darth Nihilus became,a ****ing anti-Force Demigod Walking Void that can be only killed by other Wounds in the Force.

And if you want to explain you,I shall use the conception based on Nihilus,since she became in the dark side ending a Darth Nihilus v.2.0

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I don't remember that, but I think Sidious would win. To me, the Exile is just above an average Jedi Master. He's a little better than Kavar. Sidious could take him and the Handmaiden at the same time.

There was nothing standard about the Exile. Not being declared a master doesn't indicate your strength.

She does deserve some credit... After all she took the entire Trayus Academy,both Sion(in good talker mod. Because only Sion can kill really Sion) and Traya(really fairly). And if anyone doesn't agree with what I am saying,Traya was amped by the Core of Malachor V and gave her extra-power to fight The Jedi Exile(after all Malachor V was a dark side nexus as far as I recall) But I have to admit that when the Exile came to face him,Nihilus was already starved,drained,exhausted and weak...

Originally posted by Nai
Where did the Exile kill Jedi and Sith ? He didn't participated in the Jedi Civil war and there were no Sith / Jedi to kill in the Mandalorian Wars. And please remember that those Sith soldiers are no real "Sith" and you can stealth through parts of the game without fighting anybody (e.g. Trayus Academy).

So the only people the Exile had to kill were:
- Nihilus (with the help of Visas and Mandalore)
- Sion (talking him into death)
- Traya (who might have faked the fight)

At least it is told that the Exile was an "average Jedi" with the only special thing about him being that he creates connections to other people through the force. Would an "average Jedi" be able to defeat Sidious ? I pretty much doubt it.

She does deserve some credit... After all she took the entire Trayus Academy,both Sion(in good talker mod) and Traya(really fairly). And if anyone doesn't agree with what I am saying,Traya was amped by the Core of Malachor V and gave her extra-power to fight The Jedi Exile(after all Malachor V was a dark side nexus as far as I recall) But I have to admit that when the Exile came to face him,Nihilus was already starved,drained,exhausted and weak...

Darth Sidious wins.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Sidious wins.

Dark Exile is the Darth Nihilus 2.0.v,therefore she wins through unblockable Force drain&Sever Force hybrid drain in instant.

You can't defeat a hole in the Force naturally,you need to take away their nourishment from where they take their Force powers.

http://http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/235/2/2/Jedi_Exile_dark_ver__by_DancinFox.jpg

That's some pretty shitty logic, since she's only been shown to use it after already defeating her opponents, something she won't do here. The Exile has never been shown as "Nihilus 2.0."

Sidious stomps

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's some pretty shitty logic, since she's only been shown to use it after already defeating her opponents, something she won't do here. The Exile has never been shown as "Nihilus 2.0."

Dude you heard/read carefully what I even said?

That unusual Force drain leech(I doubt that's even a technique),she masters it completely only after she defeates Darth Traya as KingDubya stated.

Also non-canonically,the author of Nihilus said the he would have represented in fact the dark side or"ghostly" nature of the Jedi Exile.

"Nihilus' exact identity is never specified in K2 - I had a specific origin in mind, but not a name, if that makes sense, and what I say hear is not canon: He was created when Malachor V was torn apart, and he was intended as the Exile's other half, one that took a more self-destructive path rather than denying the Force during that battle that ended the Mandalorian Wars." ->Dark Jedi Exile=Darth Nihilus 2.0.
―Chris Avellone

And frankly that's just the game's mechanics... While I could beat Master Vrook in 45 minutes,you could do that in 5 or 8 minutes.

This means that those fights in KotOR II doesn't matter when comes about novel or comic book characters. And as far as I recall,the Dark Exile "sucks" Vrook's essence(spirit),not just siphons some of his energy.

And she did that to any of those Masters while they were still standing on their feet.

And Meetra Surik(light side canon version) has a completely different Wound nature than Darth Nihilus.

While Meetra Surik unconsciously drains some of the energy,she gives back that strength(you could say she has a symbiotical nature) while Darth Nihilus drains completely someone,including his/her spirit, what strength he takes he doesn't give it back(you could say he has a parasitic nature)

Again, we deal in feats here. No one cares about your opinion on what you think the Exile should be like based on Avellone saying Nihilus was the Exile's mirror at one point in their respective existences. So no, it's not game mechanics when that's literally the only time it happens and has ever been said to happen.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Again, we deal in feats here. No one cares about your opinion on what you think the Exile should be like based on Avellone saying Nihilus was the Exile's mirror at one point in their respective existences. So no, it's not game mechanics when that's literally the only time it happens and has ever been said to happen.

Enlight me now!

We speak about Meetra Surik(LS) or the Jedi Exile(DS) ?

Why many of you cannot think to the possibilty,that Sidious' Eclipses I and II are real dark side amping devices?
I mean it is really obvious that many of his god-like feats can revolve around his Eclipses. He performed after all those feats in his battleships,like Force storms(wormholes) or Byss' draining(20 or 40 billions)

I mean it is quite obvious even if it isn't stated in the Dark Empire comics.
And when Sidious' holografic presence created a Force storm(Whirlwind+Force lightning) on Vjun,was because the planet was a dark side nexus too.

The dark side could easily be channeled through something by the use of dark-side-aligned objects or items, which Sidious had and could easily acquire from planets like Korriban or Vjun.

Also, considering that the Eclipse is like a miniature Death Star, it could easily create disturbances in the Force/rifts that can easily channel the Force through it. Given in the same comic book series he used cloning technology to cheat death. I can't see why he wouldn't create a flagship that would amp up his dark side powers?

Like I said, why the heck not? The ship is already a stupid huge fanboy supership with a death star superlaser and magically piloted yet unpiloted superTIEs, so why can't it have magic Force amplifying powers too? I really dislike this ship and the entire comic it's from.

To be strictly fair, Palpatine was not the best example of a Rule of Two Sith. In fact, he expressly dismissed their most important tradition, the training of an apprentice to surpass him. All of his apprentices, even Anakin/Vader, were intended to serve him but never to surpass him. We cannot reasonably assume that he would follow their other traditions when given a choice between tradition and greater power.

I have no idea where that all came from but I do like the idea that Sidious could feel the brunt of the amped arguments for once.

Let's actually see evidence first because so far, all it is is an angry spite theory because everyone is saying Sidious would shit on his hypothetical Exile.

Originally posted by Trocity
Let's actually see evidence first because so far, all it is is an angry spite theory because everyone is saying Sidious would shit on his hypothetical Exile.

I didn't speak about the Exile,nor it has anything to do about her. I only stated how Sidious could achieve his divine powers. And this is a feasible theory which might be true in fact.

...LOL. Sidious curbstomps. The Exile's not anywhere near his weight class. Exile's not even in Revan's weight class, for that matter, and Revan is outgunned himself.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
...LOL. Sidious curbstomps. The Exile's not anywhere near his weight class. Exile's not even in Revan's weight class, for that matter, and Revan is outgunned himself.

Are you f***ing kidding me!?
Not being declared a master,doesn't indicate your strength.

The Jedi Exile defeated Darth Sion(amped by Malachor 5) both in flesh and believe(though he cannot really be killed)

She defeated Darth Nihilus with her friends(yet when she arrived Nihilus was already on his knees. She defeated him,only because she was a Wound in the Force. If Nihilus was ready and completely fed,I think they'd have been equal)

She defeated Darth Traya while she too was amped by the dark energies on Malachor 5.
She took out an entire Sith Academy full of Dark Jedi,Sith Warriors and Sith Marauders by herself.

Revan(if you mean KotOR I) defeated really easily Malak and Bastila Shan.

While you will say me that they were amped by the Star Forge,the Star Forge isn't really an amping device of the Force,it is just a robot factory and a place where you can keep Force sensitives to replenish your wounds.
The Star Forge doesn't make your more powerful,just heals you,unlike the Jedi Exile who defeated Traya amped by the dark miasmas of Malachor 5's Core.

You really discredit her...

I don't think you quite understand Sidious. There are only two perfect 10s in star wars...Grandmaster Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious. And only GM Luke (and deific beings like the Ones of Mortis or Bedlam Spirits) can and probably will solo Sidious. Anyone else who tries is doomed. And I mean ANYONE else.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd

To be strictly fair, Palpatine was not the best example of a Rule of Two Sith. In fact, he expressly dismissed their most important tradition, the training of an apprentice to surpass him. All of his apprentices, even Anakin/Vader, were intended to serve him but never to surpass him. We cannot reasonably assume that he would follow their other traditions when given a choice between tradition and greater power. G-Canon tells us Anakin was intended to surpass him.

"You will not stop me. Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us."

Anakin would've surprassed him, except for that whole getting limbs chopped off thing. Kinda took him down SEVERAL pegs, that.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
G-Canon tells us Anakin was intended to surpass him.

"You will not stop me. Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us."

If so why didn't he send a flying drone or a medical capsule to stay hidden and interfere if something happens with Vader(sliced and burned) with a small army on a vessel having jetpacks to watch Vader's back?

If Palpatine is, "Everything goes as I have foreseen."

And if you go by G-Cannon then no events after ROTJ didn't happen,and I don't take in acoount the movie novels. Therefore the Exile stomps Sidious easily.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I don't think you quite understand Sidious. There are only two perfect 10s in star wars...Grandmaster Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious. And only GM Luke (and deific beings like the Ones of Mortis or Bedlam Spirits) can and probably will solo Sidious. Anyone else who tries is doomed. And I mean ANYONE else.

Put Darth Nihilus,and Sidious is eaten for good. I will explain if you want why is that on another thread.

How silly.

Sidious vs. Nihilus threads have been done before. Sidious wins every time. You are entitled to your opinion, of course...but you will find few share it.

Sidious is marginally superior to Vitiate who made Darth Nyriss look like a joke in comparrison. Darth Nyriss took on the Exile while she was being backed up by a pre-prime Lord Scourge, and she ran circles around them.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
How silly.

Sidious vs. Nihilus threads have been done before. Sidious wins every time. You are entitled to your opinion, of course...but you will find few share it.


The only defense from Nihilus' technique is becoming a Wound in the Force, just like him. Otherwise anything touched by the Force would be ripped away, the Force destroyed, and the life-force consumed. All physical matter would appear to have been disintegrated or demoleculorized.

Again, I may be the minority in this, but I think this is one opponent that even Sidious would lose against in a direct confrontation.

While Wookieepedia is a competent website, I wouldn't say it is a 100% reliable source anymore than I would with any other internet wiki. Don't get me wrong, I go there too when I want information, but really the sources behind the page are good to look at. :P

For instance, if I type Darth Nihilus on Wookieepedia and examine his powers, virtually all the sources on them are from the tabletop d20 game "Star Wars RPG Saga Edition" produced by Wizards of the Coast, and the video game 'KotOR 2'. The information on his abilities are purely what was built into the respective games' mechanics. Game mechanics are a representation of a character's abilities that brings them down to a balanced, playable level, which unfortunately makes them non-canon. If it had been Obsidian who produced the "Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide" for the d20 game, I doubt they would have even bothered to state Nihilus at all as he could snuff out any Jedi players simply by looking in the general direction of the party's ship as it approached the Ravager -- let alone being in the same room as him. (Let's not, again, bring up the many circumstances behind his most, and possibly only, known lightsabers-blazing duel)

I agree that his ability to feed on the Force needs greater clarification beyond that it is purely "instinctual". It is unfortunate that Obsidian had the rug pulled out from under them before even finishing KotOR 2 or being able to produce a KotOR 3.
Working from what we have, Nihilus is able to consume the Force itself and anything it touches on a planetary scale, at an extremely fast rate. It is also implied that the scale at which he feeds grows with each feeding. From this alone, I don't see any Force User surviving the encounter. Every Force User relies on the Force to achieve all of their incredible feats, and Nihilus feeds on it.

(And many share my opinion,not a just a few)

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Sidious is marginally superior to Vitiate who made Darth Nyriss look like a joke in comparrison. Darth Nyriss took on the Exile while she was being backed up by a pre-prime Lord Scourge, and she ran circles around them.

However,Nyriss was on Dromund Kaas and in her compound which was apparently so filled to the brim with Sith artifacts that she was using Holocrons for amps. So yes she was most definitely amped and basically speedblitzed her opponents because of it.




Note: Here we speak about the Dark Jedi Exile,not the Jedi Exile. We don't know how the story ends in the dark side ending,but she becomes a Darth Nihilus 2.0

We know the Exile was able to 'harness and unlock the full power of the Light Side of the Force' via her Enlightenment after the reconvening of the Jedi Council in Exile and was highly proficient in the use of Sever Force and many other very powerful abilities.

We do know from the Revan novel that she felt the Dark Side 'surround' her after entering the atmosphere clearly feeling the effects of the miasma of Dark Side energy that covered the planet, we also know she had little time to recover from the nearly fatal journey upon Nathema, we also know that many other Jedi including Ben, Kyle, Yoda, Jaina and Mara-Jade all felt their connections to the Light Side diminish or in the most severe case in Kyle, turn completely to the Dark Side, the planet clearly had severe effects on Light Side users.

Simply put we came to the conclusion that the Exile's quite poor performances on Dromund Kaas were simply because:

1.She was 1%,not 100% of herself

2.Simply couldn't use all of her powers

Also Revan can call upon either side of the Force and has done repeated times, the HoT had his mind shielded from Dark Side effects by the ghost of Master Orgus Din whilst Yoda, Jaina, Ben, Kyle and Mara-Jade all had migraines to full Dark Side corruption happen to them on the same planet.

Even if any of the aforementioned was true, which I don't believe is the case, that is still severely lacking against an opponent of the very highest calibre. Darth Sidious wins solidly.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Even if any of the aforementioned was true, which I don't believe is the case, that is still severely lacking against an opponent of the very highest calibre. Darth Sidious wins solidly.

Sidious might stomp Jedi Exile,but we speak about her dark side ending where she became a Nihilus 2.0

And to make a paranthesis,but I still don't believe it anyways...

If you know that Sidious is the supreme darky boss and Luke the supreme lighty boss,why you still waste your time making debates? I don't see your point...

Or you seem doubt as well of the idea as "Sidious the most powerful Dark Lord" or "Luke the strongest Jedi Master"... :/

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
If you know that Sidious is the supreme darky boss and Luke the supreme lighty boss,why you still waste your time making debates? I don't see your point...

No. Dark Side Yoda and Full Potential Anakin are darky boss and lighty boss, respectively.

Originally posted by Stigma
No. Dark Side Yoda and Full Potential Anakin are darky boss and lighty boss, respectively.

"Full Potential Anakin" is just a dream,he has lost some of his potential,so this doesn't count at all.

"Dark Side Yoda"?

I never heard or read any source or a comic book,that would suggest that Yoda was affilated with the dark side or the Sith.

I think you refer about his dark side version when he sojourned on Korriban,that was nothing more but a mere illusion of the Sith side,or he had to conquer his own inner demons.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
However,Nyriss was on Dromund Kaas and in her compound which was apparently so filled to the brim with Sith artifacts that she was using Holocrons for amps. So yes she was most definitely amped and basically speedblitzed her opponents because of it.




Note: Here we speak about the Dark Jedi Exile,not the Jedi Exile. We don't know how the story ends in the dark side ending,but she becomes a Darth Nihilus 2.0

Even if she was amped her performance indicates she was still no match for Revan, let alone Vitiate
Sidious > Vitiate (not by much but Sidious is still considered the No.1 sith lord even pre Dark Empire)
Vitiate > Revan (Vitiate has Revan on the ground in pain with a single charged up lightning attack)
Revan > Nyriss (even if she was amped at that time she was still no match for that version of revan who in turn was no match for Vitiate)
Nyriss > The Exile + Pre-Wrath Scourge

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Even if she was amped her performance indicates she was still no match for Revan, let alone Vitiate
Sidious > Vitiate (not by much but Sidious is still considered the No.1 sith lord even pre Dark Empire)
Vitiate > Revan (Vitiate has Revan on the ground in pain with a single charged up lightning attack)
Revan > Nyriss (even if she was amped at that time she was still no match for that version of revan who in turn was no match for Vitiate)
Nyriss > The Exile + Pre-Wrath Scourge

Here anyways we were speaking earilier about the Dark Exile,not her good version that we came to that. It is impossible to argument her feats since we cannot her after the ending of KotOR II.

Vitiate>Revan? Wasn't because Vitiate was always amped by his trinkets and toys?

Revan > Nyriss (even if she was amped at that time she was still no match for that version of revan who in turn was no match for Vitiate) Because Revan can control both sides,and he can be augumented too to an extent.

Nyriss > The Exile + Pre-Wrath Scourge

I don't think Pre-Wrath Scourge is such a good saber IMHO,nor with the Force I think he was just developing his powers.

Revan beat Nyriss because he was flat out more powerful, Vitiate couldn't channel both the light and the dark side either but he still had revan beat in one lightning blast. And regarless of what amp's Nyriss had her at that level of power was well above The exile and well below Revan.

Also we don't know if Dark Side Exile would be that much more powerful than the regular one.

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Revan beat Nyriss because he was flat out more powerful, Vitiate couldn't channel both the light and the dark side either but he still had revan beat in one lightning blast. And regarless of what amp's Nyriss had her at that level of power was well above The exile and well below Revan.

Also we don't know if Dark Side Exile would be that much more powerful than the regular one.

She'd have become a Nihilus 2.0 THE END

Dark Exile wins. HAPPY DARK SIDE ENDING!!!

You can't say the dark exile is strong both in Force and saber,but you can't say she is weak either.

So here I would say it's a draw.

You still haven't given a source that proves anything you've been yelling as fact for neigh on a week and a half now.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You still haven't given a source that proves anything you've been yelling as fact for neigh on a week and a half now.

Dude are you on crack or something...

She has that devastating ability as Nihilus.

She had that "wounding" ability too,but because she went lightsided,she simple changed her nature. Even so,she still unconsciously did do what Nihilus does to people(let's not say planets cause she isn't quite like that) She still drained,better said fed Force energy from her friends,she still devoured in that relationship,but the amount she did was very small and insignificant.(here is about the LS-ed version)

And consider it not non-canon but "alternative canon",because in way that is "official alternative"(here is about the DS-ed version) 

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Dude are you on crack or something...

She has that devastating ability as Nihilus.

Except Nihilus had to be taught how to use it.

Which doesn't prove your point on how she's comparable to Nihilus as a Dark Sider, especially given she has no conscious control and he does.

No, it's firmly non-canon. It didn't happen. The definition of canon allows for no alternative. That's like saying there's an alternative truth.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
She'd have become a Nihilus 2.0 THE END

Dark Exile wins. HAPPY DARK SIDE ENDING!!!

You can't say the dark exile is strong both in Force and saber,but you can't say she is weak either.

So here I would say it's a draw.

Nihilus isn't as strong as Sidious or Vitiate either.
Vitiate was stated to be the most powerful force sensative up till that point

How silly.

Arguing against Sidious is arguing against Word of Lucas.

Continuing this is flipping George Lucas off. Continue only if you wish to fly in the face of the creator.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
How silly.

Arguing against Sidious is arguing against Word of Lucas.

Continuing this is flipping George Lucas off. Continue only if you wish to fly in the face of the creator.

And if you make it "Lucas canon style"... Then you know that nothing happened after the ROTJ events,so Sidious doesn't get cloned and he doesn't have those overpowered shity featys.

And seeing the movies,the Jedi Exile is far better than him in Force and lightsaber forms.

Suprise:I don't take in account the movie novels.

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Nihilus isn't as strong as Sidious or Vitiate either.
Vitiate was stated to be the most powerful force sensative up till that point

If we have come to speak about Wounds:

Being more powerful than someone is not always the same as being as able to kill them. Powerful people can still make mistakes and get killed by those who are fundamentally weaker than them.

Yes he's(but depends what do you understand through power)

Because he would consume literally anyone that wasn't like the Exile. She was fated to defeat him and was the only one who could do it. Palpatine and Vitiate could probably out duel him and may have been stronger in the Force but none of that matters when facing Nihilus. Even if Palpatine and Vitiate were considerably more powerful than Nihilus, but that doesn't stop Nihilus from consuming them.

Nihilus is an error in Star Wars Universe. He can't be killed by normal means. We know for a fact that the most powerful Sith to ever live could be defeated. Why? Because they all die. If one of the Sith we know was the most powerful, he still lost and died.

The utter vast majority of Sith can be killed with a saber through the gut. That's what I consider normal means. A duel that results in a death. That can't be done with Nihilus.