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What free will do he have? If he already knows everything and If he is all seeing why did he not stop lucifer be for he left heaven. Or maybe he wanted him to leave.

That's exactly why if someone tried to publish the bible nowadays he would be laughed at. Too many gaping contradictions.

You can't fight fate, fate is something imbeled into the universe, it go's beyond us. But we still have free-will, we can change the little things, and it's the little things that makeup life.

Ultimately though do we WANT to defy the will of God? Because frankly wouldn't He know best? But like a parent to a child, sometimes pride or curiosity gets the best of us, we got to learn for ourselves and not blame anyone but ourselves for whatever good or bad happens because of doing something outside God's will.. We are responsible for our own descisions, God just gives us a general guideline because He's the parent figure..

God KNOWS what we're going to do, but he doesn't MAKE us do it.

Originally posted by Phoenix
God KNOWS what we're going to do, but he doesn't MAKE us do it.

Some say you'll get punished for your own good....one of the many blessings of being his child...chastisement.

I like this Quote every religious person is a Atheist the only difference is I believe in one less god then you.

Originally posted by golem370
I like this Quote every religious person is a Atheist the only difference is I believe in one less god then you.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

A FREE WILL TO CHOOSE LIFE OR DEATH!

A FREE WILL TO CHOOSE, WHOM TO SERVE!

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and CHOSE that in which I delighted not.

Choosing evil, he doesn't delight in.

Originally posted by svnthdysthsbbth
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and CHOSE that in which I delighted not.

Choosing evil, he doesn't delight in.

Also says god made EVERYTHING for his pleasure...

I more interested in the idea of our brain declaring are free will and less with God.What if our brain predetermines the decisions we will make,but gives us the process of decision to create the false illusion of our free will?



I'm an idiot.....................................

aint gonna argue that statement

you must be really really bored

With or without a god, free will does not exist. We are not really in control of anything - the solid nature of existence itself is in control of everything. Like Tolstoy said: man has no effect on history...or something to that effect.

Consciousness always has free will.

Originally posted by golem370
What free will do he have? If he already knows everything and If he is all seeing why did he not stop lucifer be for he left heaven. Or maybe he wanted him to leave. lets see, God gave us free will, therefor Lucifer had a chose, just like all of us. We can chose to obay God or we can chose to not. simpla as that

Originally posted by Wonderer
With or without a god, free will does not exist. We are not really in control of anything - the solid nature of existence itself is in control of everything. Like Tolstoy said: man has no effect on history...or something to that effect. Man does to have an effact on history. we can change what happens in the area we are in(true we could change the path of hurricane Katrina, but those in New Orleans could of atles tryed to get away

(Finti) you must be really really bored
And you must be really really stopped to redicule

THese statements in this thread are what YOU CHOSE to write, not what God or any-other person for that matter tells you too,

Look at the obvios before thinking of the technical

Originally posted by ninjababe
We can chose to obay God or we can chose to not. simpla as that

Or you can buy it on ebay.

And you must be really really stopped to redicule when all certain people do is nothing to quote scripture then you need to be bored, so bored and so lazy the person doesnt bother to use ones own words

He showing facts to give a point Finti, you don't always have to use your own words

God might have given us the ability for logic, but the beginning statement of this thread does not contain any

If God gave Man Free Will, it does not mean that Man or God has prescience-knowledge of things before they exist or happen; foreknowledge; foresight.

Even if God did have such knowledge, why do you think he wouldn't have created Man or given us Free Will? If Saul, who killed many Christians, can be "saved" and enter Heaven as Paul-one of the main writers in the New Testament, perhaps anyone can change their ways.

Again, "free will" is not prescience. The existence of one does not affect the other...

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I more interested in the idea of our brain declaring are free will and less with God.What if our brain predetermines the decisions we will make,but gives us the process of decision to create the false illusion of our free will?

its like you are channeling Benjamin Libet

who knows such things....we still do not understand so give me a beer beer...oh wait Im not in the milk bar am I?..lol

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
That's exactly why if someone tried to publish the bible nowadays he would be laughed at. Too many gaping contradictions.

This is why I'm not an atheist, because I don't think I know everything before i've looked into it properly.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
This is why I'm not an atheist, because I don't think I know everything before i've looked into it properly.

What does not knowing what you are talking about have to do with atheism?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What does not knowing what you are talking about have to do with atheism?

We have a choice to believe and not to believe.
A choice to live forever and a choice to dissappear forever.

Ironically, a majority of people (in the UK atleast) who believe in evolution, "survival of the fittest", are the ones who aren't interested in surviving/living forever, nor do they seem to consider it.

Who are the wiser ones?
Those who search for the chance to live forever or those who ignore the chance just because they think that they already know/understand everything?

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
We have a choice to believe and not to believe.
A choice to live forever and a choice to dissappear forever.

Ironically, a majority of people (in the UK atleast) who believe in evolution, "survival of the fittest", are the ones who aren't interested in surviving/living forever, nor do they seem to consider it.

Who are the wiser ones?
Those who search for the chance to live forever or those who ignore the chance just because they think that they already know/understand everything?

LOL

also, why is evolution being brought into a discussion of free will

Originally posted by inimalist
LOL

also, why is evolution being brought into a discussion of free will

I tell you, Evolution has EVERYTHING to do with free will

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I tell you, Evolution has EVERYTHING to do with free will

lets hear your take on that please

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
We have a choice to believe and not to believe.
A choice to live forever and a choice to dissappear forever.

Ironically, a majority of people (in the UK atleast) who believe in evolution, "survival of the fittest", are the ones who aren't interested in surviving/living forever, nor do they seem to consider it.

Who are the wiser ones?
Those who search for the chance to live forever or those who ignore the chance just because they think that they already know/understand everything?

You are so focused on your own beliefs that you seem to be clueless about what other people believe. For example: I believe in reincarnation, so when you say live forever, I assume you mean life after death. We don't live when we are dead. We live when we are alive, life after life. Therefore, your choice is silly to me because it's a false choice.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I tell you, Evolution has EVERYTHING to do with free will

I would like to hear this too.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
We have a choice to believe and not to believe.
A choice to live forever and a choice to dissappear forever.

Who are the wiser ones?
Those who search for the chance to live forever or those who ignore the chance just because they think that they already know/understand everything?

Sounds like a childish take on Pascal's Wager. Atheists can't force themselves into belief because the payoff is (supposedly) better.

Also, atheists don't think they know everything. Most actually subscribe to a more scientific worldview where everything is dealt with in terms of probable facts, not dogmatic truths. It's the difference between "I know there isn't a God" and "I believe there isn't a God." The latter is defensible. The former, not so much. But I know of no one who would speak in such terms, even among the most adamant atheists.

Ignorance of differing worldviews is unfortunate. Don't let yourself be victimized by only considering your perspective.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Sounds like a childish take on Pascal's Wager. Atheists can't force themselves into belief because the payoff is (supposedly) better.

Also, atheists don't think they know everything. Most actually subscribe to a more scientific worldview where everything is dealt with in terms of probable facts, not dogmatic truths. It's the difference between "I know there isn't a God" and "I believe there isn't a God." The latter is defensible. The former, not so much. But I know of no one who would speak in such terms, even among the most adamant atheists.

Ignorance of differing worldviews is unfortunate. Don't let yourself be victimized by only considering your perspective.

I hear it often, but it's not only in the area of Gods existance.
It's in the area of The Bible, and contradictions too.
Just because somebody thinks something is a contradiction doesn't necasserily mean it actually is, nor does it necasserily mean it was a mistake.

And about the free will thing, i really don't have time to explain it all, perhaps i will sometime later.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I hear it often, but it's not only in the area of Gods existance.
It's in the area of The Bible, and contradictions too.
Just because somebody thinks something is a contradiction doesn't necessarily mean it actually is, nor does it necessarily mean it was a mistake.

And about the free will thing, i really don't have time to explain it all, perhaps i will sometime later.

"Just because somebody thinks something is a contradiction doesn't necessarily mean it actually is, nor does it necessarily mean it was a mistake." Now apply that way of thinking to what some Christians say about evolution.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Sounds like a childish take on Pascal's Wager.

It's worse. Pascal's wager doesn't require God to exist for it to be "reasonable".

what is a person to do with the knowledge that he infact CANT do anything, and even if he feals like he does, hes being mislead by his perception?

God ceated us with free will.
But God created everything, including intangible things like concepts.
Two of those concepts he created are forsight & potentiality. Therefore, God has the forsight to know that when He created us, He knew very well that He had created us with the potential to go to hell. Yet, His Love for us is greater than anything.
So why does He continue to create us with the potential & the possibilty that we could send ourselves to burn in hell for all eternity. He knows what he odds are (he created those odds).
Why did He give us free will along with the potentiality to burn forever in hell?

And I know He hates sin & all that. But it's still His fault. He created us in a manner that would allow the potential for that sin.

u dont know the grand design if it exists (which I believe it does) but really somebody that knows more than anybody why you gonna blame him for something...eehh...not me those answers wont come in my lifetime probably but good luck with that! go to queeqs korova blue milk bar in the star wars forum and have a drink they r free on weekends!!

Originally posted by golem370
What free will do he have? If he already knows everything and If he is all seeing why did he not stop lucifer be for he left heaven. Or maybe he wanted him to leave. According to the Bible and the book of Job, Satan visits God in Heaven all the time. In this particular story, Satan visited god on a few occaisons. Now my question is this: If evil and good cannot be in the same place together such as heaven and hel, then why is Satan in Heaven talking to god about tempting Job? Is he there talking to god about me too? How about you. Hmm, seems Satan is wasting lots of time talking.

Seems Lucifer does as he pleases.

BTW, Satan really is not the same as Lucifer.

No, it does not.

Free will to choose the fruit on the tree...

free will to choose which beer to buy?

Why would God ask anyone to find worthy men in a city if he knew they were none?

That's kinda lame...

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
free will to choose which beer to buy?

I chose St. Pauli's Girl Special Dark for opening Sunday today in football. My friends will be pleased.