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Alryt we got:


Reed
Sue
Thing
Johnny
Adult Franklin -with the @$$ rapin reality warp power "I forget his name"
Cyclops
Havok
Pheniox
Rachel-Marvel Girl
Cable
Nate Grey-X Man- yes I know hes a test tube baby but so wat..

both families work as team

Now pose me a threat baby, I dare ya

The One Above All

forgive me but who is The One Above All and wat does it do?

"The One Above All," is a fancy Marvel U way of saying "God."

And yeah, Thanos, Dr. Doom w/prep, Sentry, Beyonder, Mikhail Rasputin....

Sentry isn't beating a team with Phoenix on it.

Any of these will make short work of your team.

The One Above All
The Heart Of The Universe
Eternity
Infinity
Oblivion
Death
The Living Tribunal

The Unknown

Also, please note that without Phoenix your team really isn't all that impressive.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Any of these will make short work of your team.

The One Above All
The Heart Of The Universe
Eternity
Infinity
Oblivion
Death
The Living Tribunal

The Unknown

Also, please note that without Phoenix your team really isn't all that impressive.

it is .adult franklin richards is on it.....he is celestial level......

Originally posted by outavodka
Alryt we got:


Reed
Sue
Thing
Johnny
Adult Franklin -with the @$$ rapin reality warp power "I forget his name"
Cyclops
Havok
Pheniox
Rachel-Marvel Girl
Cable
Nate Grey-X Man- yes I know hes a test tube baby but so wat..

both families work as team

Now pose me a threat baby, I dare ya

Now i ain't a FF specialist........but i thought Thing WASN't part of the Richards family......seeing as how.....Sue's reed's wife, and Johnny's his brother-in-law (basically not related either but bleh).

~wickerman~

Originally posted by colossus17
it is .adult franklin richards is on it.....he is celestial level......

Still not enough do defeat an abstract, or even to compare to phoenix.

Ok, take the abstracts out of the picture. I'll go so far as to say a fully powered Galactus, a fully powered Tyrant, the Watcher, and a top celestial like Exitar will pose a serious threat to your team, even to Phoenix.

Originally posted by Wickerman
Now i ain't a FF specialist........but i thought Thing WASN't part of the Richards family......seeing as how.....Sue's reed's wife, and Johnny's his brother-in-law (basically not related either but bleh).

~wickerman~ Thing has no other family. He's a giant ugly rock creature with no.. you know... he has to cling on to the Richards clan because he can never make a family of his own.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Thing has no other family. He's a giant ugly rock creature with no.. you know... he has to cling on to the Richards clan because he can never make a family of his own. I'd say he clings on because he likes them and they like him, more than an actual need.

Nevermind the fact that he does have a lover of his own, Alicia Masters. *Rolleyez*

But you could technically put him on there, I suppose, because I believe he's the Godfather of Franklin Richards.

no one below a full-powered Galactus is gonna be able to take down these 2 families.

I don't think including Thing makes much of a difference to the team.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
I don't think including Thing makes much of a difference to the team. Well, to a point all of them would start to fall away until it was the strongest fighting. . .

I'm with armandovalles. Of course, if Stryfe and Hyperstorm were added...

By "Gimme a challenge" do you mean like Thanos + Galactus + his Omega construct plot to attack the families etc. etc. and they catch them surprised, or do you mean something else???

Either way, with Franklin Richards adult full-potential + Phoenix + all the others....it wont be easy getting a challenge that isn't ridiculously powerful

ps: are they supposed to fight the challenge individually (the families) or both families at the same time?

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
By "Gimme a challenge" do you mean like Thanos + Galactus + his Omega construct plot to attack the families etc. etc. and they catch them surprised, or do you mean something else???

ps: are they supposed to fight the challenge individually (the families) or both families at the same time?

~wickerman~
Ok becuz some wanted this

////I stated the families are working together regardless hero/villan/////

Reed
Sue
Thing-is Franklin's godfather-and is technically family
Johnny
Adult Franklin -with the @$$ rapin reality warp power "I forget his name"
Cyclops
Havok
Pheniox
Rachel-Marvel Girl
Cable
Nate Grey-X Man- yes I know hes a test tube baby but so wat..
Stryfe
Hyperion
Goblin-Queen- eh...
Geneisis-Tyler/Cable's son
Corsair-again eh...

new rules cuz I didnt make it clearer before: challegers must PAR with the familes I said challenge not destroy or oblivate. Chalengers may come from other universes other than Marvel.

What? No Hyperstorm included?

How could you not have the future child of Franklin and Rachel?!?

You forgot Alpha Beast...

superman, sentry, hyperion, thor, and Bizzaro might defeat em

Originally posted by WAF3001
superman, sentry, hyperion, thor, and Bizzaro might defeat em
they would now, would they...juz them.. and i ment to put hyperstorm n put hyperion by mistake and i felt if i put alphabeast it be harder to par more challegers i mean i already got pheniox, Cable,Rachel,and Styfe and franklin up there.

I don't think any physical being could defeat that team. Galactus would get completely wrecked, no matter how "fully powered" he is. You'd really have to go to the greatest abstracts in Marvel and DC to have a chance, or devices like HOTU or IG or the M'Kraan Crystal. We're talking Lucifer with HOTU and Michael with IG and Great Evil Beast and the like...

Originally posted by outavodka
they would now, would they...juz them.. and i ment to put hyperstorm n put hyperion by mistake and i felt if i put alphabeast it be harder to par more challegers i mean i already got pheniox, Cable,Rachel,and Styfe and franklin up there.

X was making fun of you There IS no alpha beast

And i have no doubt Thanos with the IG would simply annihilate them.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
X was making fun of you There IS no alpha beast Yes, there is... shifty B.S. comics #4426 wasn't it? I'll have to ask c17.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Yes, there is... shifty B.S. comics #4426 wasn't it? I'll have to ask c17.

you're a bastard. Leave the poor guy alone, he'll be embarassed. (i can't believe the poor guy actually thought you were serious and said "I didn't include alpha beast because..."

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
you're a bastard. Leave the poor guy alone, he'll be embarassed. (i can't believe the poor guy actually thought you were serious and said "I didn't include alpha beast because..."

~wickerman~

Originally posted by demigawd
I don't think any physical being could defeat that team. Galactus would get completely wrecked, no matter how "fully powered" he is. You'd really have to go to the greatest abstracts in Marvel and DC to have a chance, or devices like HOTU or IG or the M'Kraan Crystal. We're talking Lucifer with HOTU and Michael with IG and Great Evil Beast and the like...

I don't know. Galactus by himself no, but if he had allies like I mentioned earlier, Tyrant, Watcher, most powerful Celestials. then phoenix is what makes the difference. The rest of the Richards/Summers team, including Franklin Rchards, would go down very quickly.

If the summers clan are at full power then nothing short of HOTU is going to do it.

You have Phoenix, Rachel who at full power can tap into a phoenix potential, Franklin who is Celestial level.

The others would just be gnats to anyone skyfather level and above.

GS, I thought PF was stronger than HOTU ??

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
GS, I thought PF was stronger than HOTU ??

The Phoenix Force like HOTU (apparently) is gods power however this thread is talking about Jean who is an avatar of said power. Thats why i say nothing short of that is going to be enough to go against Jean at full power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force like HOTU (apparently) is gods power however this thread is talking about Jean who is an avatar of said power. Thats why i say nothing short of that is going to be enough to go against Jean at full power.

Woah woah, i could SWEAR i saw you in another thread saying she's not an avatar of a separate entity named the Phoenix, but that she was born with the Gene to evolve to Phoenix. ........so she IS Phoenix. Ok.......WHAT?

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
Woah woah, i could SWEAR i saw you in another thread saying she's not an avatar of a separate entity named the Phoenix, but that she was born with the Gene to evolve to Phoenix. ........so she IS Phoenix. Ok.......WHAT?

~wickerman~

You have confused avatar with host. An avatar is an incarnation of something a representation of something as opposed to a host which just houses something. Jean has a mutation which bonds her to the power genetically she is phoenix. The power is only called phoenix because of the avatars, it is gods creation power. Jean chose the name phoenix because it was symbolic of her rebirth. The power then went on to be called the phoenix force.

Jean is incarnated into reality to carry out her phoenix work. She follows the orders of the Crown consciousness (God) As she is representing the creation power of God, nothing short of the power of god is going to cut it. Do you understand?

So many people are confused about the concept. Im going to make a thread in the near future (when i can muster the effort) which will lay down all i know about the concept, all that is shown in the comics.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You have confused avatar with host. An avatar is an incarnation of something a representation of something as opposed to a host which just houses something. Jean has a mutation which bonds her to the power genetically she is phoenix. The power is only called phoenix because of the avatars, it is gods creation power. Jean chose the name phoenix because it was symbolic of her rebirth. The power then went on to be called the phoenix force.

Jean is incarnated into reality to carry out her phoenix work. She follows the orders of the Crown consciousness (God) As she is representing the creation power of God, nothing short of the power of god is going to cut it. Do you understand?

I'm very familiar with the terms of Avatar and proxy, as is any heavy DnD-er

But yeah, i understand now, thanks.

~wickerman~

the one above all
the heart of the universe
the infinite being
true beyonders
living tribunal


but thas about it, things like the infinity gauntlett dont stand a chance against franklin{btw adult franklin was called psi lord and did not really posess the potential that current child franklin displays}

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You have confused avatar with host. An avatar is an incarnation of something a representation of something as opposed to a host which just houses something. Jean has a mutation which bonds her to the power genetically she is phoenix. The power is only called phoenix because of the avatars, it is gods creation power. Jean chose the name phoenix because it was symbolic of her rebirth. The power then went on to be called the phoenix force.

Jean is incarnated into reality to carry out her phoenix work. She follows the orders of the Crown consciousness (God) As she is representing the creation power of God, nothing short of the power of god is going to cut it. Do you understand?

you dont wanna start that stupid argument again gs, even the infinity gauntlett can probably give omega jean trouble, and once and for all, her powers are not that of the one above all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the one above all
the heart of the universe
the infinite being
true beyonders
living tribunal


but thas about it, things like the infinity gauntlett dont stand a chance against franklin{btw adult franklin was called psi lord and did not really posess the potential that current child franklin displays}

You know nothing of the true beyonders to place them above the living tribunal. All you know is that they are beyond our multiverse in a pocket dimension and they are behind the cosmic cubes.

The infinity being is not current continuity and he and his power was fragmented into the infinity gauntlet. He is not above LT.

As expected you have missed out Phoenix out of spite however knowledgeable readers know the true story. Its current continuity deal with it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Tribunal


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Beings

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the one above all
the heart of the universe
the infinite being
true beyonders
living tribunal

but thas about it, things like the infinity gauntlett dont stand a chance against franklin{btw adult franklin was called psi lord and did not really posess the potential that current child franklin displays} You're placing Psi-Lord above Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Death and Alpha Beast?

I find it very disapointing that you dont accept what is so obviously the case merely because the words God or TOAA arent mentioned. I also find it concerning that you're ignoring the fact Crown and Tiphereth are mentioned yet you dismiss them. Whether you believe in it or not Kaballah is a religion its a mystical offshoot of Judaism so dismissing the ideas is somewhat discriminatory Leon. Jean is stated to work for the Crown which is Gods consciousness in Kaballah, Jeans powers derive from the Crown, Jean is stated to have the role of tiphereth in creation. All of these things are stated in the comics and all are kaballah terms referring to God. Im betting if Phoenix was similarly linked to God via Christian terms you'd have no problem with it.

Not only that but in the Xmen/ Titans crossover the Phoenix force was represented as the Source.

Im really disappointed in your attitude.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you dont wanna start that stupid argument again gs, even the infinity gauntlett can probably give omega jean trouble, and once and for all, her powers are not that of the one above all.
If you don't want a start, don't react...

And it's not really stated or denied, but it's an assumption, that in GS's course of argumentation is quite logic, understandable and i'd say probable.

To the topic:
A Phoenix and a half, a quasi-Celestial, three persons with at least cosmic level powers (Nathan, Stryfe, Nate), a Supergenius and several accomplished heroes should be enough to beat everything beneath HOTU.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Any of these will make short work of your team.

The One Above All
The Heart Of The Universe
Eternity
Infinity
Oblivion
Death
The Living Tribunal

The Unknown

Also, please note that without Phoenix your team really isn't all that impressive.

No one, except The One Above All, The Heart Of The Universe.
Franklin and Phoenix would be more than enough to crush them.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you dont wanna start that stupid argument again gs, even the infinity gauntlett can probably give omega jean trouble.

If it didn't give trouble to LT, I think it won't give 0.1% trouble to Jean.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You know nothing of the true beyonders to place them above the living tribunal. All you know is that they are beyond our multiverse in a pocket dimension and they are behind the cosmic cubes.

The infinity being is not current continuity and he and his power was fragmented into the infinity gauntlet. He is not above LT.

As expected you have missed out Phoenix out of spite however knowledgeable readers know the true story. Its current continuity deal with it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Tribunal


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Beings



i know that what the fake beyonder did was a measure of the true powers of a single real beyonder, i know that they DO NOT live in a pocket dimension but in a dimension of intfinite size, i know the fake beyonder was more powerful than living tribunal, i know that the beyonders have been screwin with the multivere since the dawn of time, usin celestials too.


the infinity being is DIFFERENT from the infinite gem being which u r referring to, the infinity being was created by toaa, complete and omnipotent, it got sad after a while and commited suicide releasing its energy and creating the marvel multiverse, its definately more than the LT.


and as for the last part, LOL, what knowledgable comic book readers?! the ones that brought ur ass to the ground in the previous forums where u said pheonix was the power of TOAA?, lol, give it up galacticstorm.n im not gonna DEAL WITH IT no matter how many times u repeat that statement, because u dont DEAL with false facts,

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're placing Psi-Lord above Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Death and Alpha Beast?

no im placin current franklin above em, psilord, for all his age, was not as powerful as tthe child franklin.

Do you even know who Alpha Beast is?!?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I find it very disapointing that you dont accept what is so obviously the case merely because the words God or TOAA arent mentioned. I also find it concerning that you're ignoring the fact Crown and Tiphereth are mentioned yet you dismiss them. Whether you believe in it or not Kaballah is a religion its a mystical offshoot of Judaism so dismissing the ideas is somewhat discriminatory Leon. Jean is stated to work for the Crown which is Gods consciousness in Kaballah, Jeans powers derive from the Crown, Jean is stated to have the role of tiphereth in creation. All of these things are stated in the comics and all are kaballah terms referring to God. Im betting if Phoenix was similarly linked to God via Christian terms you'd have no problem with it.

Not only that but in the Xmen/ Titans crossover the Phoenix force was represented as the Source.

Im really disappointed in your attitude.

ok ok, ur beein nice for a change GS, so heres my side of it, crown and tiphereth ARE MENTIONED, but that doesnt mean that they are TOAA, does it, even if it is in some relegion, for the vikings, odin was the creater and true ruler of the universe, {same rank as true GOD}, and thor was nuthin less than jesus himself. but in marvel, they have pretty trivial power levels, same goes for all the egyption, arabic, hindu, japanese and olympian{greek} gods, so seriously if u look at it, its not that difficult to see, that the room and the crown, are ofcourse places of great power, but seeing the evidence {the pure fatual evidence} of what jean and the pheonix has done, we can assume that since GOD was not mentioned, it is not really the supreme GOD'S power but an unconnected lower power{and this actually makes sense , in agreement with most of the evidence} thas all, so CHILL

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i know that what the fake beyonder did was a measure of the true powers of a single real beyonder, i know that they DO NOT live in a pocket dimension but in a dimension of intfinite size, i know the fake beyonder was more powerful than living tribunal, i know that the beyonders have been screwin with the multivere since the dawn of time, usin celestials too.

You really need to get into your head the concept of a retcon. Because of the retcon everything the beyonder did all of his feats are ignored, struck out of continuity like they never happened. We know nothing about the true beyonders except for the fact that they are the power behind the cosmic cubes. That is not enough to place them above LT.


Originally posted by leonheartmm
the infinity being is DIFFERENT from the infinite gem being which u r referring to, the infinity being was created by toaa, complete and omnipotent, it got sad after a while and commited suicide releasing its energy and creating the marvel multiverse, its definately more than the LT.

The Infinity Being was (as per old continuity I.E IT DOESNT COUNT ANYMORE) responsible for the creation of this universe. He was bored and depressed and ended his existence. His power was split into the infinity Gems. The infinity Gems are ultimate power within a reality LT is above the IG and therefore the I Being.




Originally posted by leonheartmm
and as for the last part, LOL, what knowledgable comic book readers?! the ones that brought ur ass to the ground in the previous forums where u said pheonix was the power of TOAA?, lol, give it up galacticstorm.n im not gonna DEAL WITH IT no matter how many times u repeat that statement, because u dont DEAL with false facts,

At the end of the day Kaballah is a wolrd wide religion. It is just as valid as any other religion. Phoenix is said to work for the Crown and its power is said to derive from the crown. In Kaballah the Crown is gods consciousness. For you to dismiss that just because the words god or heaven arent used is discriminatory and id be very careful if i was you. Like i said if Christian terms were used you'd accept what i was saying in a heartbeat. That is very narrow minded. Did you know Dc's Presence and Source and so on are Kaballah related as well?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You really need to get into your head the concept of a retcon. Because of the retcon everything the beyonder did all of his feats are ignored, struck out of continuity like they never happened. We know nothing about the true beyonders except for the fact that they are the power behind the cosmic cubes. That is not enough to place them above LT.




The Infinity Being was (as per old continuity I.E IT DOESNT COUNT ANYMORE) responsible for the creation of this universe. He was bored and depressed and ended his existence. His power was split into the infinity Gems. The infinity Gems are ultimate power within a reality LT is above the IG and therefore the I Being.






At the end of the day Kaballah is a wolrd wide religion. It is just as valid as any other religion. Phoenix is said to work for the Crown and its power is said to derive from the crown. In Kaballah the Crown is gods consciousness. For you to dismiss that just because the words god or heaven arent used is discriminatory and id be very careful if i was you. Like i said if Christian terms were used you'd accept what i was saying in a heartbeat. That is very narrow minded. Di dyou know Dc's Presence and Source and so on are Kaballah related as well?



the infinite being and the infinite gem being were two different beings gs, and the infinte being was responsible for THIS MULTIVERSE, and pheonix is part of this multiverse, not beyond it{hell it aint even beyond a universe} and dont talk to me about gettin stuff in my head, u should really be the one tryin out ur own advice for once. and you had bettre read up on the beyonders my friend, a lot about who they are has been told only u dont know it. doom even went to their own dimension.


and u said it, IN KABALLAH RELEGION, well its not as big a relegion as islam and christianity, not even buddhism, thas not what i accept as a relegion influential enough to be taken as the ultimate faith in a comic, and i WOULDNT ACCEPT if christian terms were used, 1rst off imnot a christian, lol, secondly even though it would be tempting, i still would need evidence that those terms should be taken literally, thirdly, many christian terms HAVE been mentioned, for example, every time nightcrawler says that god helped him out of death's jaws, I DONT BELIEVE HIM, neither did i believe mephisto when he said that he was the true devil. which he wasnt ofcourse, nor azazel, nightcrawler's father when he said the same thing and lied.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ok ok, ur beein nice for a change GS, so heres my side of it, crown and tiphereth ARE MENTIONED, but that doesnt mean that they are TOAA, does it, even if it is in some relegion, for the vikings, odin was the creater and true ruler of the universe, {same rank as true GOD}, and thor was nuthin less than jesus himself. but in marvel, they have pretty trivial power levels, same goes for all the egyption, arabic, hindu, japanese and olympian{greek} gods, so seriously if u look at it, its not that difficult to see, that the room and the crown, are ofcourse places of great power, but seeing the evidence {the pure fatual evidence} of what jean and the pheonix has done, we can assume that since GOD was not mentioned, it is not really the supreme GOD'S power but an unconnected lower power{and this actually makes sense , in agreement with most of the evidence} thas all, so CHILL


On top of Jean and her power being directly linked to God through Kaballah terms. What you're forgetting is that the God of Kaballah is the same one as Chrsitianity, Islam and Judaism. The crossover with DC was made canon so that means the multiverses are all part of a big omniverse after all. TOAA and Presence therefore are either one and the same or are aspects of one omniversal supreme being being. In crossovers Phoenix is shown as the Source. In Xmen Forever Phoenix is shown to be the only constant in existence. Whilst the abstracts get replaced with every new creation (that phoenix makes) by their universes evolved humanity Phoenix is the only constant. It constantly steers evolution towards the omega point Big bang after big bang, crunch after crunch. LT and the abstracts deemed Phoenixes work a part of the natural order and as such couldnt interfere. If the natural order that LT seeks to retain is not the will of God then what is?

thas not really what i meant GS. u seem to get too involved in what ur sayin n avoid what others have written, ur just too sure of urself.

GS: Phoenix is this.
Someone else: No she isn't.
GS: Phoenix is this.
Someone else: No she isn't.
GS: Phoenix is this.
Someone else: No she isn't.
GS: Phoenix is this.
Someone else: No she isn't.
GS: Phoenix is this.
Someone else: No she isn't.
Can't you just agree to disagree?

lol

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the infinite being and the infinite gem being were two different beings gs, and the infinte being was responsible for THIS MULTIVERSE, and pheonix is part of this multiverse, not beyond it{hell it aint even beyond a universe} and dont talk to me about gettin stuff in my head, u should really be the one tryin out ur own advice for once. and you had bettre read up on the beyonders my friend, a lot about who they are has been told only u dont know it. doom even went to their own dimension.

Im not saying the Infinity Being is just the Infinity Gem where are you getting that from? lol. The Infinity Being after his depression gave up on life and he fragmented into all of the Infinity Gems. That is common knowledge. There was even a seventh relatively new gem that was revealed called the Ego gem that could resurrect the Infinity Being however while that was in a crossover it still shows that the Infinity Gems are very much the fragmented power of the Infinity Being. The Phoenix force is derived from the Crown. The Crown is Gods consciousness. Jean gets her power from this making her a phoenix and she works for the Crown consciousness. The fact that all of the abstracts are created by Phoenix and that LT and they said Jeans work is a part of the natural order further support the case. You'd think the supreme being would have a little involvement with the creation of the multiverse wouldnt you? lol. The Infinity Being as per old continuity created only this universe im afraid. Read up on him. I know im quite correct. However forget this talk he is no longer current continuity. Phoenix is and thats all that matters.


Originally posted by leonheartmm
and u said it, IN KABALLAH RELEGION, well its not as big a relegion as islam and christianity, not even buddhism, thas not what i accept as a relegion influential enough to be taken as the ultimate faith in a comic, and i WOULDNT ACCEPT if christian terms were used, 1rst off imnot a christian, lol, secondly even though it would be tempting, i still would need evidence that those terms should be taken literally, thirdly, many christian terms HAVE been mentioned, for example, every time nightcrawler says that god helped him out of death's jaws, I DONT BELIEVE HIM, neither did i believe mephisto when he said that he was the true devil. which he wasnt ofcourse, nor azazel, nightcrawler's father when he said the same thing and lied.

Come on Leon thats very different Thats just a phrase and for Mephisto just bolstering . Phoenix is shown to be a higher level being, as per current continuity she is stated to be responsible for the creation process, her work is shown to be in accordance with LT's. The fact that LT is shown to be a victim of the creation process says it all. He works for TOAA yet the creation process Jean carries out which claims him he accepts as a part of the natural order. What does that tell you?

The Phoenix shard of Jeans which empowered Rachel was even shown in a peer like role of LT's in a What if.

Kaballah isnt just some minor religion it is an offshoot of Judaism. It has the same God as it , Christianity and Islam. Dc's God is even based on Kaballah principles. Phoenix in crossovers is shown as the the Source. With a DC crossover becoming canon it means the multiverses are neighbours. Therefore the supreme beings are connected.

"The Crown is Gods consciousness. Jean gets her power from this making her a phoenix and she works for the Crown consciousness. The fact that all of the abstracts are created by Phoenix and that LT and they said Jeans work is a part of the natural order further support the case. You'd think the supreme being would have a little involvement with the creation of the multiverse wouldnt you? lol. The Infinity Being as per old continuity created only this universe im afraid. Read up on him. I know im quite correct. However forget this talk he is no longer current continuity. Phoenix is and thats all that matters. "


thas just speculation GS AGAIN! ur just statin again n agian that the crown is=god's contionce wont change anythin as far as the evidence goes, nuthi even resemblin that is found in the comics. and secondly, i never saw the living tribunal being a victim off jean and the pheonix's role, EVER. and i have already told you why logically CREATION here probably means universal creation not multiversal creation{just like eternity is CREATION} there is nuthin to say that it was multiversal creation.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
"The Crown is Gods consciousness. Jean gets her power from this making her a phoenix and she works for the Crown consciousness. The fact that all of the abstracts are created by Phoenix and that LT and they said Jeans work is a part of the natural order further support the case. You'd think the supreme being would have a little involvement with the creation of the multiverse wouldnt you? lol. The Infinity Being as per old continuity created only this universe im afraid. Read up on him. I know im quite correct. However forget this talk he is no longer current continuity. Phoenix is and thats all that matters. "


thas just speculation GS AGAIN! ur just statin again n agian that the crown is=god's contionce wont change anythin as far as the evidence goes, nuthi even resemblin that is found in the comics. and secondly, i never saw the living tribunal being a victim off jean and the pheonix's role, EVER. and i have already told you why logically CREATION here probably means universal creation not multiversal creation{just like eternity is CREATION} there is nuthin to say that it was multiversal creation.

The very definition of Crown in terms of Kaballah its very role is that it is Gods consciousness (The same God of Christianity, Islam, Judaism just from a different perspective). Phoenix as featured in the comics is dealt with in terms of Kaballah like it or loathe it. If the comic says Jean works for and draws power from the Crown then that means God.

Xmen Forever showed that Phoenix is the constant of creation. It keeps the creation cycle going. All of the abstracts and Galactus are merely the evolved humanity of the previous universe.. Phoenix is responsible for creation and it steers evolution towards a convergence with the omega point. At this point everything ends before creation is started again by Phoenix. All of this was stated in the comic explicitly. The comic showed that if the Stranger harnessed the phoenix power then he would be able to speed up the process and emerge in the new creation as the supreme being beyond all including LT.

The fact that LT was shown on a number of occassions to be concerned about the Strangers plans and that he was one of those to be absorbed shows you that ultimately it is a multiversal process or which makes sense because how else would LT be humbled? The H.O.T.U mentioned nothing of the multiverse and the range of its power was shown on panel to be universal yet it was potent enough to deal with LT.

Thanos said HOTU was gods power so whats the difference between that and Phoenix being called the Crowns power?

I still think HOTU is gretear than Phoenix. He literally just thought aobut and it was done, he was almighty, Phoenix is not. Maby HOTU has compeltely equal to God power, but is still bellow God, cause God created it. Phoenix is bellow in my opinion to HOTU. LT was literally shown as insect compared to HOTU.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I still think HOTU is gretear than Phoenix. He literally just thought aobut and it was done, he was almighty, Phoenix is not. Maby HOTU has compeltely equal to God power, but is still bellow God, cause God created it. Phoenix is bellow in my opinion to HOTU. LT was literally shown as insect compared to HOTU.

My point was that Leon was saying because the words TOAA werent mentioned or multiverse that Phoenixes power was universal and definitely not linked with God. Thats why i brought HOTU into it because the multiverse isnt even mentioned in the comic, it only affected a universe yet LT was concerned and was defeated. TOAA also wasnt mentioned in that comic yet everyones readily accepts HOTU as gods power and wont do the same for phoenix. Despite it being stated to be the Crowns power, Jean being shown to work on a multiversal level and the phoenix power being depicted as something that could make a wielder supreme over all of creation. That was my point.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
My point was that Leon was saying because the words TOAA werent mentioned or multiverse that Phoenixes power was universal and definitely not linked with God. Thats why i brought HOTU into it because the multiverse isnt even mentioned in the comic, it only affected a universe yet LT was concerned and was defeated. TOAA also wasnt mentioned in that comic yet everyones readily accepts HOTU as gods power and wont do the same for phoenix. Despite it being stated to be the Crowns power, Jean being shown to work on a multiversal level and the phoenix power being depicted as something that could make a wielder supreme over all of creation. That was my point.

Ok, but I thought everyone had known Phoenix is multiversal, of course it is.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
My point was that Leon was saying because the words TOAA werent mentioned or multiverse that Phoenixes power was universal and definitely not linked with God. Thats why i brought HOTU into it because the multiverse isnt even mentioned in the comic, it only affected a universe yet LT was concerned and was defeated. TOAA also wasnt mentioned in that comic yet everyones readily accepts HOTU as gods power and wont do the same for phoenix. Despite it being stated to be the Crowns power, Jean being shown to work on a multiversal level and the phoenix power being depicted as something that could make a wielder supreme over all of creation. That was my point.

Ok, but I thought everyone had known Phoenix is multiversal, of course it is.
Phoenix as a being is the supreme being in the marvel universe, second only to TOAA. But as power shown ever in MU I would go Phoenix behind TOAA and HOTU.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The very definition of Crown in terms of Kaballah its very role is that it is Gods consciousness (The same God of Christianity, Islam, Judaism just from a different perspective). Phoenix as featured in the comics is dealt with in terms of Kaballah like it or loathe it. If the comic says Jean works for and draws power from the Crown then that means God.

Xmen Forever showed that Phoenix is the constant of creation. It keeps the creation cycle going. All of the abstracts and Galactus are merely the evolved humanity of the previous universe.. Phoenix is responsible for creation and it steers evolution towards a convergence with the omega point. At this point everything ends before creation is started again by Phoenix. All of this was stated in the comic explicitly. The comic showed that if the Stranger harnessed the phoenix power then he would be able to speed up the process and emerge in the new creation as the supreme being beyond all including LT.

The fact that LT was shown on a number of occassions to be concerned about the Strangers plans and that he was one of those to be absorbed shows you that ultimately it is a multiversal process or which makes sense because how else would LT be humbled? The H.O.T.U mentioned nothing of the multiverse and the range of its power was shown on panel to be universal yet it was potent enough to deal with LT.

Thanos said HOTU was gods power so whats the difference between that and Phoenix being called the Crowns power?


ill answer all ur queries in a day, right now im busy{oh n i do have an answer to ur silly questions}

there's only a few beings or entities who could take out these families alone:

The One Above All
The Spectre w/ Host Hal Jordan
The Presence
The Infinity Gauntlet
The Heart of the Universe
The Living Tribunal
The Scarlet Witch (current)

That's pretty much everyone in my opinion.

Originally posted by armandovalles
there's only a few beings or entities who could take out these families alone:

The Scarlet Witch (current)

That's pretty much everyone in my opinion.

That's MAGNETO PRIME!!!!

Originally posted by armandovalles
there's only a few beings or entities who could take out these families alone:

The One Above All
The Spectre w/ Host Hal Jordan
The Presence
The Infinity Gauntlet
The Heart of the Universe
The Living Tribunal
The Scarlet Witch (current)

That's pretty much everyone in my opinion.

In a crossover a battle between Phoenix and Spectre would be debatable. They both work for God. If Phoenix was out of control and acting against her role then probably Spectre and vice versa.

The infinity Gauntlet gives ultimate power over the six aspects of the universe. It allows omnipotence over a reality. That is nothing to the white crown phoenix who can crush a universe within her hand and has multiversal power.

The living tribunal is a peer of the White Crown phoenix. They both work for something far greater than themselves. However Phoenix is the only constant in creation. LTs role and position in the scheme of things can be usurped (as shown in Xmen Forever). Jeans cannot. As the white crown phoenix her power extends over creation down to a sub atomic level. She keeps the creation process going on and on forever.

Current Scarlet Witch is a non factor.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Current Scarlet Witch is a non factor.

I'm waiting for the end of HOM to decide that!

Originally posted by demigawd
I'm waiting for the end of HOM to decide that!

Dont do this to yourself Demi. She's a fake, Magneto Primes lame

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont do this to yourself Demi. She's a fake, Magneto Primes lame

She's not fake! You can't make an illusion of people being alive! Apoc lived again! Hawkeye lived again! Magneto Prime owns the Marvel Universe!

Originally posted by demigawd
She's not fake! You can't make an illusion of people being alive! Apoc lived again! Hawkeye lived again! Magneto Prime owns the Marvel Universe!

They might not have been truly dead in the first place which would have allowed Wandas power to affect them.

I really cant wait for issue 8. That'll learn ya!!

Why is she called Magneto Prime... that's like saying that in the X2 William Stryker's casting the illusion over Xavier.
Add to the list of dead people brought back by Wanda, Mad Jim Jaspers.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why is she called Magneto Prime... that's like saying that in the X2 William Stryker's casting the illusion over Xavier.
Add to the list of dead people brought back by Wanda, Mad Jim Jaspers.

Demi coined the phrase. Go on join in tell him its lame!!!!!!

Too soon to tell what it really is. It's not an illusion though - too many dead people brought back to life with personal consciousnesses.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Too soon to tell what it really is. It's not an illusion though - too many dead people brought back to life with personal consciousnesses.

The dead people might not actually be really dead. I bet after H of M all of said people are found to be alive and well.

But lets wait and see.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
They might not have been truly dead in the first place which would have allowed Wandas power to affect them.

I really cant wait for issue 8. That'll learn ya!!

Hawkeye was dead! DEAD! Doom was dead! DEAD! Gwen - DEAD! Apocalypse - DEAD!

Now they're not. Especially Gwen. A miracle only Magneto Prime could pull off!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why is she called Magneto Prime... that's like saying that in the X2 William Stryker's casting the illusion over Xavier.
Add to the list of dead people brought back by Wanda, Mad Jim Jaspers.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Demi coined the phrase. Go on join in tell him its lame!!!!!!

Don't be mad that Magneto Prime would own the Phoenix! He's more powerful than the Alpha Beast

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The dead people might not actually be really dead. I bet after H of M all of said people are found to be alive and well.

But lets wait and see. Mad Jim Jaspers has been alive and well? Gwen Stacey and Uncle Ben have been alive all this time too? That's even more far-fetched than her bringing them all back to life.
Originally posted by demigawd
What do you mean?It's Wanda Prime. Her powers and her mind kept in check by Dr Strange and Xavier respectively until they could do so no longer and the world went white. He is the mastermind (Stryker) to her retarded but incredibly powerful multicoloured-eyed crazy cripple (Jason).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

It's Wanda Prime. Her powers and her mind kept in check by Dr Strange and Xavier respectively until they could do so no longer and the world went white. He is the mastermind (Stryker) to her retarded but incredibly powerful multicoloured-eyed crazy cripple (Jason).

You missed Excalibur! Wanda could only affect reality in pockets on her own. It required a combination of Magneto's powers to expand across the entire physical universe, which is why the effects got amped the way it did when Magneto took her into custody. Magneto started toying with reality in the last issue of Excalibur by using her powers. He took it to the next level to kick off HoM. And given that Magneto, aside from using his powers in concert with hers, was the architect of that theory, he gets credit!

Originally posted by demigawd
You missed Excalibur! Wanda could only affect reality in pockets on her own. It required a combination of Magneto's powers to expand across the entire physical universe, which is why the effects got amped the way it did when Magneto took her into custody. Magneto started toying with reality in the last issue of Excalibur by using her powers. He took it to the next level to kick off HoM. And given that Magneto, aside from using his powers in concert with hers, was the architect of that theory, he gets credit! Bah! They're her powers! Besides according to some rumours Wanda's poised to become the Sorceress Supreme of Earth - if that happens it nullifies your whole Magneto theory.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Bah! They're her powers! Besides according to some rumours Wanda's poised to become the Sorceress Supreme of Earth - if that happens it nullifies your whole Magneto theory.

It's ALSO her powers. And if she becomes the Sorceress Supreme, then it proves my theory - if she retained omnipotence after HoM, then she wouldn't be a very interesting character, would she? But if separated from Magneto, then she'd revert to her Avengers Disassembled state, which was more Proteus level than LT level.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No one, except The One Above All, The Heart Of The Universe.
Franklin and Phoenix would be more than enough to crush them.




Bullcrap. Franklin is nowhere near on the level of the abstracts. And who's to say which abstracts are above the others meaning phoenix may not be able to take them either.

Alpha Beast would beat them.

Lucifer, Micheal, Wally the God Boy, LT, HOTU, The Source, 5D imps, TGEB, TOAA. full powered Spectre.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Bullcrap. Franklin is nowhere near on the level of the abstracts. And who's to say which abstracts are above the others meaning phoenix may not be able to take them either.

For the last 3 years in continuity phoenix is the force credited with the creation of the multiverse. Phoenix created the likes of Eternity and Galactus (you need only check out Big G's latest bio) so phoenix being above the abstracts is not in debate.

TOAA
HOTU
Phoenix of the White Crown / LT

Alpha Beast would murder Phoenix. shifty

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Lucifer, Micheal, Wally the God Boy, LT, HOTU, The Source, 5D imps, TGEB, TOAA. full powered Spectre.

In crossovers the Phoenix Force is shown to be one and the same as the Source. I read Lucifer theres no evidence whatsoever that indicates that he alone could beat the White Crown Phoenix same goes for Michael. If you're talking en masse then yeah if we'er talking seperately then with the exception of the Supreme Beings, their aspects and TGEB most certainly not.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For the last 3 years in continuity phoenix is the force credited with the creation of the multiverse. Phoenix created the likes of Eternity and Galactus (you need only check out Big G's latest bio) so phoenix being above the abstracts is not in debate.

TOAA
HOTU
Phoenix of the White Crown / LT

Hey, GS, when did you change your opinion on HOTU being higher than Phoenix? You used to argue that Phoenix was higher than HOTU because she's multiversal while HOTU is only universal. What happened?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For the last 3 years in continuity phoenix is the force credited with the creation of the multiverse. Phoenix created the likes of Eternity and Galactus (you need only check out Big G's latest bio) so phoenix being above the abstracts is not in debate.



How does one create Eternity? Eternity is always, always has been always will be. One cannot "create" something like "Eternity". If Eternity can be created then I want whatever some comic writer was smoking.

TGEB is the one equal of The Presence it was the darkness before all of creation. Lucifer and Micheal could certainly defeat them as they have shown to have the power right behind the Presence. And If Presence wanted Spectre to destroy the families he would make sure it was done.
Wally the God Boy is the Presence taking the form of a boy. He would rip the families into pieces. and 5D imps can do anything they want to do. When Bat-mite and Mxyzptlk faced each other their fight literally destroyed many universes. and Crossovers are never ever canon. So your Phoenix Force equals the Source in null and void.

The Phoenix Force is not an omniversal force it is a multiversal force. It only has effect on the MU. And as the demiurgic energy within Micheal and Lucifer individually could create and destroy multiverses. They would polish off Phoenix. and with Phoenix gone the families would cry for the second they were still in existance before they were destroyed.

Originally posted by demigawd
Hey, GS, when did you change your opinion on HOTU being higher than Phoenix? You used to argue that Phoenix was higher than HOTU because she's multiversal while HOTU is only universal. What happened?

Notice i said Phoenix of the white crown i.e Jean.

The Phoenix Force the creation power of Marvels supreme being doesnt need a seperate entry from its posessor

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
How does one create Eternity? Eternity is always, always has been always will be. One cannot "create" something like "Eternity". If Eternity can be created then I want whatever some comic writer was smoking.

Eternity is the living embodiment of a universe. He is a reality. Phoenix cyclically sparks off his creation and then consumes it. Phoenix allowed Galactus to survive the end of the last universe and then bonded him with the essence of what was to be the new universe.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
TGEB is the one equal of The Presence it was the darkness before all of creation. Lucifer and Micheal could certainly defeat them as they have shown to have the power right behind the Presence. And If Presence wanted Spectre to destroy the families he would make sure it was done.
Wally the God Boy is the Presence taking the form of a boy. He would rip the families into pieces. and 5D imps can do anything they want to do. When Bat-mite and Mxyzptlk faced each other their fight literally destroyed many universes. and Crossovers are never ever canon. So your Phoenix Force equals the Source in null and void.

For such a battle to happen a crossover would be required and in the phoenix crossover it was shown to be one and the same as the Source. Lucifer and Michael certainly could defeat them together however individually with the White Crown Phoenix there no way. Spectre is a fallen angel who as a way of repenting took on the role of Gods wrath. He is not literally Gods wrath he represents it beyond heaven. As such Spectre would not be able to do it im afraid.

When did they retcon Galactus being Eternity's baby? He's Phoenix's baby now?

Alpha Beast is between Phoenix and TOAA in the hierarchy. shifty

Yes he would as I said he gets his power from The Presence and if the Presence gave him full rein of the Spectre's abilities he would annihilate "Phoenix of the White Crown".

when Micheal was destroyed they said the energy was powerful enough to destroy the multiverse. He could certainly defeat Phoenix. and Lucifer who is even more powerful could do the same.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
The Phoenix Force is not an omniversal force it is a multiversal force. It only has effect on the MU. And as the demiurgic energy within Micheal and Lucifer individually could create and destroy multiverses. They would polish off Phoenix. and with Phoenix gone the families would cry for the second they were still in existance before they were destroyed.

You need to brush up on your Lucifer and Michael knowledge. It is only Michael who wields gods demiurgic power and Lucifer has his will. Neither of them could create a universe individually without help from the other.

Also they both as a joint effort created a universe lets set that straight. Nothing the White Crown Phoenix cant do.

If you read my take on characters on crossovers you'll see that i believe that in them the supreme beings are either one and the same or are aspects of one greater omniversal supreme being who is manifested differently for each multiverse. Either way the Phoenix Force of Marvel is shown in a crossover to be one and the same as the Source. Both have the same role in their respective multiverses as well.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Yes he would as I said he gets his power from The Presence and if the Presence gave him full rein of the Spectre's abilities he would annihilate "Phoenix of the White Crown".

Presence and TOAA are presumed equal so why would gods wrath be any greater than Gods creation tool which is the White Crown Phoenix?

He is not Gods wrath literally he is a fallen angel who represents it as a way of repenting. Spectre isnt greater than either Michael or Lucifer they are the top angels. He would fare no better. All together the family do get annihilated admittedly.

Yeah but they are entirely different multiverses. And they need each other to create a multiverse not a unverse. Both of them could create a universe with absurd ease.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Notice i said Phoenix of the white crown i.e Jean.

The Phoenix Force the creation power of Marvels supreme being doesnt need a seperate entry from its posessor

So you mean like Captain Marvel and Shazam? Juggernaut and Cytorrak? Beyonder and True Beyonder?

My cosmic is better than your cosmic. No my cosmic is better than your cosmic.
What the hell is a Tokyo Mew Mew?
My cosmic - Alpha Beast - actually does beat both your cosmics.

But what proof is there that Phoenix can actually create the multiverse. She has only shown the ability to destroy universes. Not one feat of hers shows the power you say. She held a universe in her hand. Not multiversal if you ask me.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
My cosmic is better than your cosmic. No my cosmic is better than your cosmic.
What the hell is a Tokyo Mew Mew?
My cosmic - Alpha Beast - actually does beat both your cosmics.

But is still no match for Magneto Prime!

Alpha Beast's body is composed of organic BS - he's a 22.5 on all the Marvel scales. Magneto Prime ain't got nothing on that.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Yeah but they are entirely different multiverses. And they need each other to create a multiverse not a unverse. Both of them could create a universe with absurd ease.

If you read Lucifer you'd know that it was a universe that Lucifer created with Michaels help.

it was a multiverse he created with Micheal's help not a universe.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
But what proof is there that Phoenix can actually create the multiverse. She has only shown the ability to destroy universes. Not one feat of hers shows the power you say. She held a universe in her hand. Not multiversal if you ask me.

Its actually stated in the comics you need only read Xmen Forever to know that the natural beginning and end of a universe is through phoenix. The white hot room is beyond all of creation, from there Jean viewed the alternate realities of the multiverse she viewed different timelines and saw what would happen if she didnt amputate the "Here comes tomorrow" future from the 616 universe. Therefore she did and then she telekinetically restructured its time and space whilst holding it within the palm of her hand. That is one of the best examples of multiversal power you can ask for.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
it was a multiverse he created with Micheal's help not a universe.

I have in my posession the entire Lucifer series in digital form. I'll quite happily post the appropriate evidence if you wish.

It was indeed a universe

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Alpha Beast's body is composed of organic BS - he's a 22.5 on all the Marvel scales. Magneto Prime ain't got nothing on that.

Magneto Prime is so powerful he made everybody forget that Alpha Beast ever existed. even in the real world.

Top that, bitches!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


You mean the White Hot Room Roma was afraid Magneto Prime was going to end up destroying?

Yup, that one!

Magneto Prime gives Phoenix a omniversal scale stroke!

Originally posted by demigawd
Magneto Prime is so powerful he made everybody forget that Alpha Beast ever existed. even in the real world.

Top that, bitches! Alpha Beast only wanted to make Magneto Prime think that he managed that - when in reality it was Magneto Prime that was being manipulated to think that he was making everyone think that shifty. Read BS Comics #2375 Alpha Beast almost managed to take down JP - Magneto Prime wouldn't last five seconds against JP or Alpha Beast.

Oh damn. Alpha Beast owns.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I have in my posession the entire Lucifer series in digital form. I'll quite happily post the appropriate evidence if you wish.

It was indeed a universe

POWERS AND WEAPONS

Lucifer is omnipotent, he can create his own universes on a whim, create life and create entire concepts like 'Time' from scratch.

His power is incalculable. He stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan.

The only thing he cannot do is create his own multiverse alone, he needs his brother Michael to do that.

Only his brother Michael is his equal in power, and only God is superior to both of them.

But the power Lucifer likes to use most is his brain, his devious bastardness allow him to defeat gods even when he is mortal and powerless.

Originally posted by armandovalles
there's only a few beings or entities who could take out these families alone:

The Infinity Gauntlet
The Living Tribunal
The Scarlet Witch (current)



This is joke, right. What do you need to understand about Phoenix part.
And who the **** is Scarlet Witch here, what the **** is she doing here.
She is litteraly less then insect against any being you mentioned here.

Originally posted by demigawd
She's not fake! You can't make an illusion of people being alive! Apoc lived again! Hawkeye lived again! Magneto Prime owns the Marvel Universe!

Actully it could be all powerful illsuion, I tis known for powerful illsuion to have affect like this one. Maybe it is an illusion, and t could be. So they can make it.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Bullcrap. Franklin is nowhere near on the level of the abstracts. And who's to say which abstracts are above the others meaning phoenix may not be able to take them either.

Pheonix alone would be enough, you still don't understand who Phoenix is (didn't Phoenix create abstracts). And Demigawd, it's disaster what are you saying, it made me sick.

Originally posted by demigawd
Don't be mad that Magneto Prime would own the Phoenix! He's more powerful than the Alpha Beast

Originally posted by Xplosive
Actully it could be all powerful illsuion, I tis known for powerful illsuion to have affect like this one. Maybe it is an illusion, and t could be. So they can make it.

Illusions don't beat people up, like Apocalypse did to Namor.

And don't hate on Magneto Prime because he can beat both Phoenix and the Alpha Beast with one hand tied behind his back. Magneto Prime's power was on its way to reaching the White Hot Room itself. Going beyond the confines of the multiverse. That's beyond the Phoenix!

Originally posted by demigawd
Illusions don't beat people up, like Apocalypse did to Namor.

And don't hate on Magneto Prime because he can beat both Phoenix and the Alpha Beast with one hand tied behind his back. Magneto Prime's power was on its way to reaching the White Hot Room itself. Going beyond the confines of the multiverse. That's beyond the Phoenix!

Nothing is beyond Phoenix, Pheonix is aspect of TOAA, nothign can top that, except God.

All in all, we will find out quite soon.

one person kills them all .................................................................wait for it..............................................................................................its coming.............................................................. The Saint of Killers

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Yeah but they are entirely different multiverses. And they need each other to create a multiverse not a unverse. Both of them could create a universe with absurd ease.

I have argued thes points on numerous occasions, its just funny be careful peoplr will start a hate campain of ims about you if you defy the Phoenix force

Originally posted by supremthor
POWERS AND WEAPONS

Lucifer is omnipotent, he can create his own universes on a whim, create life and create entire concepts like 'Time' from scratch.

His power is incalculable. He stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan.

The only thing he cannot do is create his own multiverse alone, he needs his brother Michael to do that.

Only his brother Michael is his equal in power, and only God is superior to both of them.

But the power Lucifer likes to use most is his brain, his devious bastardness allow him to defeat gods even when he is mortal and powerless.

True

Originally posted by demigawd
Hey, GS, when did you change your opinion on HOTU being higher than Phoenix? You used to argue that Phoenix was higher than HOTU because she's multiversal while HOTU is only universal. What happened?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ill answer all ur queries in a day, right now im busy{oh n i do have an answer to ur silly questions}

good post one we can all learn from in regard to the Phoenix Zealot

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i know that what the fake beyonder did was a measure of the true powers of a single real beyonder, i know that they DO NOT live in a pocket dimension but in a dimension of intfinite size, i know the fake beyonder was more powerful than living tribunal, i know that the beyonders have been screwin with the multivere since the dawn of time, usin celestials too.


the infinity being is DIFFERENT from the infinite gem being which u r referring to, the infinity being was created by toaa, complete and omnipotent, it got sad after a while and commited suicide releasing its energy and creating the marvel multiverse, its definately more than the LT.


and as for the last part, LOL, what knowledgable comic book readers?! the ones that brought ur ass to the ground in the previous forums where u said pheonix was the power of TOAA?, lol, give it up galacticstorm.n im not gonna DEAL WITH IT no matter how many times u repeat that statement, because u dont DEAL with false facts,


Indeed I agree totally with this fantasic post

Originally posted by Wickerman
Woah woah, i could SWEAR i saw you in another thread saying she's not an avatar of a separate entity named the Phoenix, but that she was born with the Gene to evolve to Phoenix. ........so she IS Phoenix. Ok.......WHAT?

~wickerman~

You did madness your right to be confused

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you dont wanna start that stupid argument again gs, even the infinity gauntlett can probably give omega jean trouble, and once and for all, her powers are not that of the one above all.

Its so true Leon

Originally posted by leonheartmm



and as for the last part, LOL, what knowledgable comic book readers?! the ones that brought ur ass to the ground in the previous forums where u said pheonix was the power of TOAA?, lol, give it up galacticstorm.n im not gonna DEAL WITH IT no matter how many times u repeat that statement, because u dont DEAL with false facts,

I wonder who Leon means handed GS his ass

Time to join the debate.


Its a bird,

Its a plane,

Its Whirlysplatt

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Is it just me or has Whirly gone on some kind of anti-GS/anti-Phoenix rampage?

I know I'm inconsistently on here since I'm on a concert tour, but did I miss some secret war or something?

Uh...can't Franklin Richards basically change reality to his liking?

Call me crazy, I just assume that would win.

The BS Comics characters take down the Richards/Summers without a sweat. You're got Alpha Beast, Batmyth, Kirbilactus, Wolvigod, Jubilee Prime - all omniversal threats - and lets not forget JP.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The BS Comics characters take down the Richards/Summers without a sweat. You're got Alpha Beast, Batmyth, Kirbilactus, Wolvigod, Jubilee Prime - all omniversal threats - and lets not forget JP.


how could u forget about spidermangod thats like forgetting wolvigod............ i m so ashamed im telling C17.

and by the way a fully powered atom could take them.

Originally posted by demigawd
Is it just me or has Whirly gone on some kind of anti-GS/anti-Phoenix rampage?

I know I'm inconsistently on here since I'm on a concert tour, but did I miss some secret war or something?

Indeed. He thinks ive been talking about him behind his back so prepare to see arguing for the sake of arguing.

I thought age was supposed to bring maturity?


Either way all queries sent my way on this thread regarding phoenix have been answered. Notice that despite that he's quoted said queries as if ive been caught out. Hmmmmmm

Any further confusions about the concept i'll happily address.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I wonder who Leon means handed GS his ass

Time to join the debate.


Its a bird,

Its a plane,

Its Whirlysplatt

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Ummmm this coming from the man who finds it "ridiculous" to see debates in terms of winning and losing?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ummmm this coming from the man who finds it "ridiculous" to see debates in terms of winning and losing?


I t certainly is glad you at last see this as I believe my post at the end of this thread explains why Phoenix could never fit or be judged in terms of the DCU.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365666&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

keep the faith


stay Whirly

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Indeed. He thinks ive been talking about him behind his back so prepare to see arguing for the sake of arguing.

I thought age was supposed to bring maturity?


Either way all queries sent my way on this thread regarding phoenix have been answered. Notice that despite that he's quoted said queries as if ive been caught out. Hmmmmmm

Any further confusions about the concept i'll happily address.

Qualified by only in your opininion

- If the phoenix force is all powerful and beyond concepts like Desire, light and Dark, why did it desire flesh, which is it attributed as being "light" and "dark", these concepts are beyond rebirth. Phoenix seems to be affected by a great deal of abstract concepts which have power over it. So answer why that is, Gods power would be pure light surely?

.yiyoiyoiyoiyioyoiyopyoiyytiyiopy[opi.(sony p.o.box 20466 kansas 64195
#hq766
68.18

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I t certainly is glad you at last see this as I believe my post at the end of this thread explains why Phoenix could never fit or be judged in terms of the DCU.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365666&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4

keep the faith


stay Whirly

I have replied to that post and highlighted your misconception

Originally posted by supremthor
.yiyoiyoiyoiyioyoiyopyoiyytiyiopyIndeed.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Qualified by only in your opininion

- If the phoenix force is all powerful and beyond concepts like Desire, light and Dark, why did it desire flesh, which is it attributed as being "light" and "dark", these concepts are beyond rebirth. Phoenix seems to be affected by a great deal of abstract concepts which have power over it. So answer why that is, Gods power would be pure light surely?

Please refer to current continuity Whirly.

You really dont read posts or keep up to date with comic book events do you?

I have dealt with this issue many a time in the past, it just seems you spend too much time venting your hate for the concept instead of actually taking in the oppositions points in a debate. The Phoenix Force isnt an entity it is the power of the Crown. The avatars are the tools of the Crown who are guided and regulated by the Crown consciousness because it felt a human touch was desirable for all matters of creation for whatever reasons.

A nice right hook to the baby maker'll stop all further spread of the filth.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
A nice right hook to the baby maker'll stop all further spread of the filth.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Please refer to current continuity Whirly.

You really dont read posts or keep up to date with comic book events do you?

I have dealt with this issue many a time in the past, it just seems you spend too much time venting your hate for the concept instead of actually taking in the oppositions points in a debate. The Phoenix Force isnt an entity it is the power of the Crown. The avatars are the tools of the Crown who are guided and regulated by the Crown consciousness because it felt a human touch was desirable for all matters of creation for whatever reasons.

In DCU no crown conciousness guides light and dark they are and are parts of each other and the whole

You can still get Dark Phoenix, its affected