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If Morgoth, Sauron, Voldemort, Darth Vader, and Darth Sidious were pitted against each other who do you think would win? I say Voldemort because he's intelligent, powerful, and willing to do anything to escape death, hence the French name Vol de mort(flight from death).

Originally posted by Some_Black_Guy
If Morgoth, Sauron, Voldemort, Darth Vader, and Darth Sidious were pitted against each other who do you think would win? I say Voldemort because he's intelligent, powerful, and willing to do anything to escape death, hence the French name Vol de mort(flight from death).

Erm... all of the Dark Lords you mentioned meet the same criteria. In fact, in pure 'intelligence', Darth Sidious exceeds Voldemort by far. I'm not saying Voldemort is stupid (he's very clever), but he's not in league with a Sith Lord who fooled an entire galaxy and the Jedi Order.

In the end, Voldemort 'might' win simply because of the Avada Kedavra curse. But Sauron is invincible, should the ring remain on his finger.

lol Sauron be able to beat Morgoth??????? LOL go read a BOOK

I have. Simarillion, I believe. Morgoth was once Sauron's master. But y'know, there's a reason he no longer is.

Darth Sidious

Morgoth, duh

Stupid question. Morgoth. More powerful. God. End of thesis.

Originally posted by Escape81
But y'know, there's a reason he no longer is.

Hmmmm.....i wouldnt really say that. Have you heard the prohecy of the Final Battle? I might be getting confused here but do you think he died? There is no point me going on about the prophecy if you know he didnt die

Sauron. And as I recalled Sauron was the reason Morgoth became such a threat to the elves during the War of the Jewels. Sauron was left in charge to do Morgoth's work but of course Sauron was defeated by Huan and Morgoth was defeated in the War of Wrath.
Sauron made a come back in the second age and was the sole reason the Numenor's home given to the Valar was whipped out. You may say that Morgoth was stronger due to the fact that the Valar defeated him but by the second age the elves were a lot stronger in number and strength then they were in the first age. But Morgoth's will would not have been enough to destroy the One Ring. Sauron was the greatest enemy Middle-Earth ever had to face.

Originally posted by fini
lol Sauron be able to beat Morgoth??????? LOL go read a BOOK

well said LMAO!!!!!

Who would be stupid enought to comapre Sauron vs Morgoth?
Morgoth was defeated by the war of wrath, which is understandable because HE FACED ALL THE OTHER VALARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saauron was defeated by a DOG!!!!! Wouaf!

Originally posted by DanielLB
Hmmmm.....i wouldnt really say that. Have you heard the prohecy of the Final Battle? I might be getting confused here but do you think he died? There is no point me going on about the prophecy if you know he didnt die


disagree, we are talking in duelistic terms and thus Morgoth could crush Sauron under a single toe.


furthermore Saurons great wars of the ring in both cases were minor wars compared to the destruction caused by the war of wrath...


in the war of wrath middle earth itself lost huge sections of it's continent to battle... this makes sauron look like a 12 year old with a cap gun.

Originally posted by Escape81
I have. Simarillion, I believe. Morgoth was once Sauron's master. But y'know, there's a reason he no longer is.


The reason would be that to defeat Morgoth it took the entire company of Valar along with a great host of militarized elves imbued with the power of valinor...


comparing Sauron to Morgoth is like comparing a kitten to a T-90

Originally posted by Covert22
disagree, we are talking in duelistic terms and thus Morgoth could crush Sauron under a single toe.


furthermore Saurons great wars of the ring in both cases were minor wars compared to the destruction caused by the war of wrath...


in the war of wrath middle earth itself lost huge sections of it's continent to battle... this makes sauron look like a 12 year old with a cap gun.

I know, and i agree Morgoth could beat Suaron hands behind his back blindfolded. I was just saying that he isnt dead!

Actually now I say Morgoth would defeat Sauron for a very good reason.
Morgoth was a Vala
Sauron was a Maia.
Vala>Maia.
Need I say more?

Celestail You can some it up in two words! *applauds!*

I ALREADY SUMMED IT UP 3 TIMES BEFORE!!!!!! HAS ANYONE READ WHAT I'VE SAID????????

Originally posted by Covert22
disagree, we are talking in duelistic terms and thus Morgoth could crush Sauron under a single toe.


furthermore Saurons great wars of the ring in both cases were minor wars compared to the destruction caused by the war of wrath...


in the war of wrath middle earth itself lost huge sections of it's continent to battle... this makes sauron look like a 12 year old with a cap gun.
I guess you have no clue what Morgoth and Sauron made their wars for.
Morgoth wanted to destroy Middle-Earth and everyone living in it.
Sauron wanted to rule Middle-Earth and everyone living in it.

Destroy and Rule are 2 big differences so don't compare their wars with one another.

I voted Morgoth.

the only reason morgoth lost was because they sent all the GODs after him!!!

he caused a rebellion in heaven for crying out loud. he created new species...

his body guards were balrogs!!!

what's wrong with everyone?!?

comparing morgoth to darth sideous is like comparing satan to hitler!

and PS. the jedi fooled by DS didn't seem all that smart either...

and Voldermort? the dude scared a baby. ooooooooh....

please.


Morgoth all the way. (Sauron was kick ass though, but he was defeeated by lesser beings).

Originally posted by Bar-en-Danwedh
the only reason morgoth lost was because they sent all the GODs after him!!!

he caused a rebellion in heaven for crying out loud. he created new species...

his body guards were balrogs!!!

what's wrong with everyone?!?

comparing morgoth to darth sideous is like comparing satan to hitler!

and PS. the jedi fooled by DS didn't seem all that smart either...

and Voldermort? the dude scared a baby. ooooooooh....

please.


Morgoth all the way. (Sauron was kick ass though, but he was defeeated by lesser beings).
Let's review these "facts"
A.) Morgoth never once came out to fight expect once during all of the war of wrath and the war before.
B.) Morgoth was wounded badly by a Noldor
C.) Morgoth hid himself in his fortress fearing the Valar and sent out winged dragons to attack
D.) Morgoth's army was the threat, not Mogoth

his forces were made by him, from him. he sacrificed his own power to create the dragons and trolls. as an individual he was mostly a paranoid coward as the years went on... and a bit of a throne sitter.

but he used himself as a sorce of power to create Glaurung who alone would kick those other guy's asses!

and lets not forget the size defference... Morgoth (the early years) swinging Grond against Sidious and a lightsabre...

I still vote Morgoth.

I'm sorry I thought this was the Battle of the Dark Lords not Battle of the Dark Lords and their wolf.

um... Glaurung was a dragon.




(and sauron was beaten by a wolf)

but my point was that before making all those things, morgoth was stronger.

and back in the day when he fought fingolfin he would have kicked ass.

given a choice he would have sent someone else to fight vader, voldermort and so on...

but i think your giving the guy a seriously hard time...

i mean the only reason Sauron was trying to take over middle earth was to build his forces to do a jail break in the abyss, and bring old Melly back to rule.

that was the whole point of bombadil... to show you that Sauron wasn't the end all be all...
but the big S was pretty kick ass, i won't deny!

Whatever...

And Sauron was beaten by a dog but at least he least he was man enough to face them instead of hiding in his fortress

i didn't say morgoth wasn't a coward...


(and sauron only came out after a long line of wolves were sent out... he came out as a last resort...)

No he underestimated his opponent and Lethian was casting her sleep spell on Sauron.

morgoth is a powerful coward.

He gave up most of his power on his servants and depended on them from that point on

okay, sorry... he was defeated by a dog and a girl.

although Luthien and Huan's tag team effort were not enough to slow down Carcharoth...

(excl. the fact that H and C nutted each other)

Huan slew Car. alone but died in the process and Luthien did not aid him that time

there's a bit of a rock paper scissors thing happening in middle earth when it comes to power...

morgoth would win

Morgoth gave too much of his power away and became totally dependent on his servants. It was his armies that destroyed a lot of northern Middle-earth, not Morgoth.

Sauron just nicked all of Morgoth's creations that Morgoth had made from his own power. And Sauron was actually pretty stupid for sticking his hand out to Isildur. Morgoth defeated Fingolfin (albeit it was close) who was the greatest of the Noldor, whereas Sauron just gets his fricking hand chopped off.

There is no competition in the end of this. Valar are much stronger than Maia.

Morgoth was badly wounded with 7 cuts that could never heal. Sauron was killing men left and right when he was stupid. That was the only time Morgoth came out of his fortress.

Yes but Morgoth is a Valar, Sauron is Maia. Morgoth wins on sheer principle. I think that if Fingolfin were to fight Sauron that the fight would be even/go in Fingolfin's way.

Morgoth was more powerful than Sauron.

Tou all keep refering to Morgoth at a point when he had sacrificed himself to make other creatures...

if you're going to that then we may as well take Sauron from the point he was at during LOTR. a big red eye who relied heavily on orcs made by morgoth.

it's very circumstantial. but there's a reason Sauron followed Morgoth, and not vice versa.

If so then we can say that Morgoth still loses because he isn't even in Middle-earth anymore because the Valar cast him away.

It should be obvious that the Sith and Voldemort would stand absolutely no chance whatsoever under any circumstances, but wasn't it implied that Morgoth has lost his native element on losing his ability to shapeshift so Sauron in the Second Age might have been stronger than Morgoth in the Fist Age.

in the same way that by 'Return of the king' Farmir, while poisoned, was still more powerful than boromir who was dead!

:P

Morgoth owns since the lightsabers cant really hurt him if he can kill the sith with magic. plus he was Sauron's master

I think the question should be formulated like this:

Which of these evil dark lords is more powerful than the rest, if we compare them when they were all at their most powerful self?

Originally posted by Council#13
Morgoth owns since the lightsabers cant really hurt him if he can kill the sith with magic. plus he was Sauron's master
A sword injured him badly or did you forget those wounds with his duel and a lightsaber is a lot stronger then a sword.

eh? well they can use magic so ha

Morgoth would win, purely based on the fact that if sauron was more powerful, why on earth didn't he overthrow morgoth? Oh, and you can't take the mick out of morgoth for not coming out : "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth!" But did he? NO. He just sent the mouth. Morgoth kicks ass. Get over it.

Originally posted by Bar-en-Danwedh
the only reason morgoth lost was because they sent all the GODs after him!!!

he caused a rebellion in heaven for crying out loud. he created new species...

his body guards were balrogs!!!

what's wrong with everyone?!?

comparing morgoth to darth sideous is like comparing satan to hitler!

and PS. the jedi fooled by DS didn't seem all that smart either...

and Voldermort? the dude scared a baby. ooooooooh....

please.


Morgoth all the way. (Sauron was kick ass though, but he was defeeated by lesser beings).

Haha, haven't been here in a good two months. But anyway, Voldemort has to be killed 7 times for you to actually kill him. And even after you find his six souls(which are guarded by spells and treacherous traps) and kill them, it will still take an extraodinary wizard to kill him and destroy the one inside his body. Also, his army isn't so un-formidable. He has giants, werewolves, wizards, dementors, etc.

Originally posted by Mandos
morgoth is a powerful coward.

'Only thing worse than a coward is a coward with power'-Jadakiss

Originally posted by Some_Black_Guy
Haha, haven't been here in a good two months. But anyway, Voldemort has to be killed 7 times for you to actually kill him. And even after you find his six souls(which are guarded by spells and treacherous traps) and kill them, it will still take an extraodinary wizard to kill him and destroy the one inside his body. Also, his army isn't so un-formidable. He has giants, werewolves, wizards, dementors, etc.

Giants, Werewolves? Wizards, Dementors? They look like playthings compared to Glaurung or the Ringwraiths, even the the Sith Lord's lightsabres!

Darth Sidious and Vader are outclassed. Voldemort gets crushed like an ant and then Morgoth beats Sauron!#

Morgoth wins...

I've never watched LOTR so i cant really comment

just down to the pure fact that i love Star Wars - Vader baby!

Originally posted by Darth Syko
Morgoth would win, purely based on the fact that if sauron was more powerful, why on earth didn't he overthrow morgoth? Oh, and you can't take the mick out of morgoth for not coming out : "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth!" But did he? NO. He just sent the mouth. Morgoth kicks ass. Get over it.


Are we talking Sauron without the ring?

That's probably the reason he didn't try to overthrow him when he was alive, he didn't have the ring. Without the ring, Morgoth was way more powerful, with it, I don't know.

Originally posted by fini
lol Sauron be able to beat Morgoth??????? LOL go read a BOOK

yaeh and F.Y.I thats not because sauron defeated him in battle or stabbed him when he slept, go read it again!

morgoth would totaly own all of those chumps!
is there any real point putting star wars villans in a lotr forum poll?? lotr will come up winners every time!

Originally posted by Escape81
I have. Simarillion, I believe. Morgoth was once Sauron's master. But y'know, there's a reason he no longer is.

whoa sorry fini wrong quote pal, this is the quote i intended to go up there ^^^^^

Originally posted by kamikz
Are we talking Sauron without the ring?

That's probably the reason he didn't try to overthrow him when he was alive, he didn't have the ring. Without the ring, Morgoth was way more powerful, with it, I don't know.

The only power the ring had was the power that came from sauron. sauron was equally powerful with the ring as he was before he created it. Morgoth owns.

OK
1) is morgoth as a valar before he gave up his power?
2) is it EU sidious or just movie sidious?

Ok, voldemort comes out dead first, because his killing curse can be deflected by a lightsaber as well as the only one dependent on his weapon, vader and sidious atleast have to force. the proof on the killing curse is this: while a killing curse can merely shatter a metal statue and not go on, a blaster rifle's laser can pretty much decimate a number of obstacles including at times going through various shields, howevever the blaster rifle laser can be reflected by a lightsaber, as well something like lightning can be absorbed thereby proving the killing curse fails.

vader loses to sidious, and more so if its EU sidious, however sidious loses to sauron unless again the guy who started the thread stats which then will make a interesting match...

Morgoth if he has all his powers and not his power when he dispersed it, easily kicks all their asses, he is a counterpart to satan in the bible, and second to Eru the One, the only star wars being that has a chance against is Marka Ragnos, the most powerful force being. so in ranking
1) Morgoth
2) Sauron/ EU Sidious
3) Sidious/ Sauron( if its EU Sidious)
4) Vader
5) Voldemort

OHHH, I was wondering what I did to deserve a telling off from Naz!!!?!??!

The idea of "Dagor Dagorath" was never fully fleshed out. Regardless, it has the uberwench Morgoth tooled by Turin.

Yes but Morgoth is a Valar, Sauron is Maia. Morgoth wins on sheer principle. I think that if Fingolfin were to fight Sauron that the fight would be even/go in Fingolfin's way.

Pretty big contradiction in your post, considering at least both Sauron and Morgoth are Ainu while Fingolfin is a pipsqueak elf. A tough elf (THE toughest), but just an elf.

Sauron should ravage him on sheer principle. But sheer principle determines nothing.

Originally posted by Nazgul lord
yaeh and F.Y.I thats not because sauron defeated him in battle or stabbed him when he slept, go read it again!

morgoth would totaly own all of those chumps!
is there any real point putting star wars villans in a lotr forum poll?? lotr will come up winners every time!

Not exactly consdiering that Darth VAder can curbstomp ANY good guy i nthe 3rd age... Hell even Rotj Luke can beat Aragorn.

Morgoth wants them dead. He snaps his fingers. Fights over. They all exploded and went into the void. Bye bye "mighty" Voldemort ur revival thingy cant help u now, can it, Vader and Sidious, dead, Sauron, u shouldnt have even tried...........

Morgoth all the way sauron is to morgoth as the with king is to sauron sauron is his luitenent morgoth lost because he was fighting demigods and gods creating a world cost morgoth an arm and a leg
yes i do admire voldemorts powers but wth morgoth is a GOD avada cadavera would do bs to him and sauron wasnt always like he was in the ovies him and morgoh looked like elves once but if you ppl want to take forces into accout than sure
sidious has royal gaurds (excellent fighters with electrostaffs) vader has similiar gaurds
sauron has the nazgul you cant kill them cause theyre already dead
and morgoth well he has balrogs giant demons remember gandalf was technically klled by it but the gods brought him back voldemort and his deatheaters well deatheaters they wouldnt hurt the nazgul or balrogs not severely but minorly and probably kill the sw gaurds but yeah they can get killed by a 16 year old not that good
voldemort himself takes a long time to come back so by that time hes gonn just get knocked down again and again he has a fighting chance but not big one
now the great and allmighty morgoth before he spawned his army he was invincible he is a god no less (my spelling will be off since im using a mac and often dont press keys hard enough)
than to the subject of militaries
SW an infinate army of cyborgs, clones tanks , and etc
Hp people werewolves wizards wolves giants mythical creatures, ect
lotr Wolves ,undead, giants ,orcs,gobs ,wargs,trolls,giants,dragons,wyrms,fellbeasts,spid
ers,necromancers, demons and ect

well Hp ppl do have an impressive force yet lotr has similiar creatures
since that lotr creatures are simply more powerful and plentiful id give it to lotr

Sw has a massive army and if you put all of the rebel and imp foces in one battle head on imps would win but they would be once again be facing guerilla tactics and frankly they suck when it comes to that its TOO orderly blasters nearly make up for that

so id say lotr beats Hp ,Hp beats Sw, Sw either equals or beats, or loses to lotr depending on the terrain

Ummm. this is not a fioght of the universes, but one of the leaders and enemies.......... Voldemort looks at Morgoth" AVADAKADAVRA!" He scratches his shjolder. "WTF HES NOT DEAD!!!!!" Morgoth says"My turn" Takes Voldemorts twig, snaps it, then crushes him with Grond.

If this is to be fair in the slightest, then the Avada Kedavra and the Sith's lightsabers/Force-powers need to work on the Ainur.

As the Silmarillion showed us, even a Valar's body can damaged, a la Fingolfin vs. Morgoth. And since this is Morgoth and not Melkor, his power is diminished. And his speed, as far as the narration describes, isn't up to par with Sidious, or frankly even Voldemort. Morgoth (his body anyway) will be destroyed.

Sauron with the Ring=physical being who can be damaged with a sword (albeit a king's elvish one), so a lightsaber should do well here. Off with Sauron's everything.

Sidious' speed and power over an ethereal energy field>>>Voldemort's reflexes.

Vader loses for obvious reasons.

AVADAKEDAVRA!!!!!! BOOM!!!!! There went Grond killing Voldemort after Sidious dies from avadakedavra.

Lucien, Morgoth was unique in that his physical form could be damaged? Something about spreading his power throughout the entirety of creation seems to have weakened him a bit?

(Vague memories here, anybody got a source?)

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Lucien, Morgoth was unique in that his physical form could be damaged? Something about spreading his power throughout the entirety of creation seems to have weakened him a bit?

(Vague memories here, anybody got a source?)
That's from Morgoth's ring.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Lucien, Morgoth was unique in that his physical form could be damaged? Something about spreading his power throughout the entirety of creation seems to have weakened him a bit?

(Vague memories here, anybody got a source?) Yes, it's been a while since I went through any of Tolkien's work, but I do remember something within canon (was it Morgoth's Ring) stating that Melkor's creations had spread his... "evil" or "power" so thin that he was a shadow of the guy who marred the Creation. That's why a lone Child of Illuvatar (albeit a Noldor King) could take him on for so long and deal that damage to him. And why he practically hid away in Angband while the Host destroyed everything he had created.

Remember it was the host of the Valar, a bunch of Maiar, and Eonwe(a maiar) that is one of the gresatest warriors to ever exist. Dont forget the Eagles of Manwe, adn Earendil on Vingilot.

I feel stupid cause I haven't read any of tolkiens works but isnt melkor morgoths original name ?

Originally posted by Incanus
Remember it was the host of the Valar, a bunch of Maiar, and Eonwe(a maiar) that is one of the gresatest warriors to ever exist. Dont forget the Eagles of Manwe, adn Earendil on Vingilot. Yes, I know. But if he had retained all of his original power, he would have been out there helping out his bazzillions of Orcs and stuff.


And yes, Morgromir, Morgoth's original name was Melkor. Feanor bestowed upon him the new name after Melkor killed his father and made off with the Silmarils. The Morgoth of the First Age was a far lesser state of himself than the Melkor who had marred the Song.

oh ok so morgoth is evil and weaker melkor