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I believe in fate, but i dont believe in God. But aren't they just different names for the same thing?

My view is that 'fate' is what the Universe, or Being as such is at bottom. Everything that can happen, or that can exist, already happens all at the same time in the absolute realm of Being. Everything is all at once, solid and static in continuity.

I'm not sure I believe in fate....Maybe consequences for you actions...but not fated to be this or that....

Define fate?

fate according to the oxford concise is 'a power regarded as predetermining events unalterably' i think that means that fate determines everything that happens, and its inevitable, but i dno. To me its just the belief that everything happens for a reason

Then I don't believe that....I believe there are always forks in the road alwaysssssssssssssss...for every decision you make...you can make or change your life or reality to some point...things are not fated...It's the the reaction to the action you took.

but isnt it tru that u learn from experience? so obviously that experience happened to u to teach u that particular lesson.....maybe

But you aren't fated to it....there is no fate...only consequences.

why r there consequences then? i think they are fates way of guiding us, which is why i was confused about God because isnt that wot he does? supposedly

NO.....That's a church teaching.....

argh now im all confused!

Fate is our way of describing the irony of chaos

Maybe there is degrees of fate... laws of physics always happen as they are supposed too, computer programs too(in theory ), but we can choose to not follow our fate at some degree right. We are animals we are supposed to follow our instincts, that is what animals do, but we can act against them. Maybe there is fate, but there is will too, and this one is used to change the fate.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

...NOW THAT'S FATE!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

...NOW THAT'S FATE!

That's horrible...defiantly...full of deformity..hot...Too hot....kinda really freaky....Saddens me so much.....Is this a Buddhist teaching?......I'm not talking to you anymore....All Buddhists are evil......

Originally posted by debbiejo
That's horrible...defiantly...full of deformity..hot...Too hot....kinda really freaky....Saddens me so much.....Is this a Buddhist teaching?......I'm not talking to you anymore....All Buddhists are evil......

Calm down. It's called the burning man. A bunch of artist get together and do a "light show" in the desert.

Fate is the total loss of control.

I have a different perspective on fate. I believe fate is the downfall of a being, his death. If someone dies in a car crash, i believe it was his/her fate to die in that car crash.

I also believe in destiny, my version of destiny is what you do with your life. Lets say your president of the nabisco, that was your destiny to become the president of that company.

Fate is all the bad things that happen to you.
Destiny is all the good things that happen.

Just my opinion.

What is fate?

Well thats kinda hard to answer, but i guess it could be , say those who dont survive armageddon, fate caught up to them, for them not paying attention.

Kinda like what happen in noah's day.

Originally posted by Biscuit
fate according to the oxford concise is 'a power regarded as predetermining events unalterably' i think that means that fate determines everything that happens, and its inevitable, but i dno. To me its just the belief that everything happens for a reason
Are you a pagan?

And its faith not fate.

anyone believing in fate is fooling themselves and allowing external forces real or imagined to determine how they should or shouldn't live their lives...i will die one day, but that's not fate or destiny...just a proven fact of our mortality.

but to say i'm fated to do this or do that is just saying my life is not my own...if we cannot determine how we live our lives, then really, what's the point of living or even trying if it's already fated? Kinda takes the surprise outta life dont' ya think?

fate is a certainty, a fact that no being, not even god himself can escape.
anyone who thinks he/she/it is not bound by fate is a fool. no logic can be made or forced out of this. it is what it is, call it the ULTIMATE force, one that surpasses but is eternally bound by existance. there is almost no1 who has gone up against it, for everything is bound by fate's little angel............TIME, the tool of predestination.



lol, now dont u think im a deep person?

Originally posted by Biscuit
I believe in fate, but i dont believe in God. But aren't they just different names for the same thing?

There are levels of structure just below the surface of reality that we don't yet perceive or understand. Science is currently not prepared to enter these depths but that doesnt mean you cannot explore there yourself.

Imo, "Fate" is a kind of convergence of long-standing forces and predisposing currents that exist in this realm and these can sometimes have a profound effect on someones life. This is why you feel yourself to be "carried along" or are just going "for a "ride" in life so to speak. Imo, for most people, these currents have an expansive, broad stroke kind of quality about them generally and so it's not like they will determine everything that happens to you, right down to the details of your life. They may move you in one direction or another like a wind blowing the sails of a sailing ship, but it's still you that will steer the ship and try to get to where you want to or must go in your life at its various stages.

You make decisions, thousands of them each day, and over time, just how you decided and what you did and the outcome of all your actions, will add up in very important ways to define who you are, what you're doing, what you're immediate prospects are, etc. It's possible I geuss that the winds of fate or the magnitude of events occuring in the lives of SOME people are such that they overwelm or "trump" things that such an individual person is doing to steer their own lifes direction. Then, you really are at the hands of fate. BUT in general I don't think thats the way it is for most of us. For good or for bad, WE, are the authors of our own fate.

Fate is what you aught not to become - avoid fate at all times, because fate is the thing you fear the most. It's all about what you think - your thoughts create your future...so, if you think you are fated, you will be, but if you do not think so, then you won't be fated...

A person can change their outcome to a more positive one by accessing the positives in the world and in their thoughts (thoughts have form)...just as a person can do with negatives....It's all choices...not fate.

Yes, but you can choose fate. But can you really choose the choices you make?

Originally posted by Wonderer
Yes, but you can choose fate. But can you really choose the choices you make?

I think you can especially if you live in the present moment......Every moment is the "real" part of living with a multitudes of choices...always choices...constant forks in the road....This way, we are not reenacting from our experiences by too much thinking from the past or future (hell)..but living in our true "now".....This way you are creating....

If that makes sense.

Yes, but can you choose your choices, or do they choose you?

Originally posted by Wonderer
Yes, but can you choose your choices, or do they choose you?

I believe we choose for the most part...though depending on ones belief...there is Karma or some may say there are things that we've chosen that are called "contracts"...that we've chosen for what ever reason...for growth or experience...

A few beliefs anyway.

Ok, let's say then that we choose the forces that choose our choices for us that we are responsible for, which in turn choose our forces, which choose our choices for us that we are reponsible for, which in turn choose our forces...

OK

Originally posted by Biscuit
I believe in fate, but i dont believe in God. But aren't they just different names for the same thing?

No. Where fate is the choice made for you, God is the choice given to you.

Originally posted by AOR
No. Where fate is the choice made for you, God is the choice given to you.

?????? God is not a choice. God is everything. ????????

Originally posted by Biscuit
I believe in fate, but i dont believe in God. But aren't they just different names for the same thing?
no

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
?????? God is not a choice. God is everything. ????????

You misunderstood, God is everything yes, but we can choose God. That's what makes him so great...

We all misunderstand if we don't realize there is nothing that is NOT God.

Question:

Is God omnipresent or not?

If not, then the implication is that there is something or someone outside of God, separate from God, independent from God. Right?

If so, then God ISN'T omnipresent is he?

So, can God really be God if in fact he isn't everywhere?

I mean, I thought God was God because he has NO limitations, of ANY quality or quantity. Right?

That is to say, if one of the qualities of God is his infinite nature. . .

See what I mean?

So . . . what ARE the implications then?

Get it?

I know I know!

Believe me, I know and it bothers me too. Not "bothers" bother but "funny" bothers as if therein lies the ultimate answer to everything or at least the framework for the beginnings of your own personal philosophy, cosmology and canon for living.


Ex nihilo nihil fit!

Originally posted by AOR
You misunderstood, God is everything yes, but we can choose God. That's what makes him so great...

To say we can choose God is to say we can be without God, and that is to say that God is not everything.

Originally posted by jOHN_Anderton
We all misunderstand if we don't realize there is nothing that is NOT God.

Question:

Is God omnipresent or not?

If not, then the implication is that there is something or someone outside of God, separate from God, independent from God. Right?

If so, then God ISN'T omnipresent is he?

So, can God really be God if in fact he isn't everywhere?

I mean, I thought God was God because he has NO limitations, of ANY quality or quantity. Right?

That is to say, if one of the qualities of God is his infinite nature. . .

See what I mean?

So . . . what ARE the implications then?

Get it?

I know I know!

Believe me, I know and it bothers me too. Not "bothers" bother but "funny" bothers as if therein lies the ultimate answer to everything or at least the framework for the beginnings of your own personal philosophy, cosmology and canon for living.


Ex nihilo nihil fit!

You are correct... but the Christian god is very limited. He can not even forgive those who do not ask for forgiveness. Also, he is limited by sex.

maybe its not fate i believe in then, but i do believe that things that happen cannot be changed. people are always asking what we would change if we wer givin the chance to do something again, but imo if we change even the slightest thing it could have the most drastic effects.
If we are faced with a decision, i dont believe that there is a right or wrong choice to make, we'll decide based on what we believe at the time but if later we then reflect on our decisions and decide that, if faced with that particular decision again, we would choose differently, this doesnt mean that we chose wrong in the first place because that choice had major effects on our life (even if we dont know it ) and, had we chosen differently at first we may never have become the same person we are today.
Is this Fate ?

Here is a view from my stance -

Fate is basically Karma. An effect of a certain cause.

However, you believe that things cannot be changed - which is a direct contradiction with my view of Karma...

You don;'t need to believe in sole creator to believe in Fate - in fact those two contradict - if a sole creator is testing us and is all knowing, then he must know what will happen, thus the test he is setting us is in vain as we cannot chance our destiny.

i dont believe that things cannot be changed, they CAN be changed in the future, but not in the past. cause and effect is a good way of describing it actually - once the effect has happened, the cause cannot be changed, but something else can happen that reverses that effect, however this also causes other things.
Basically - no regrets! cos things that have happened are in the past and can only be changed in the future

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Here is a view from my stance -

Fate is basically Karma. An effect of a certain cause.

However, you believe that things cannot be changed - which is a direct contradiction with my view of Karma...

You don;'t need to believe in sole creator to believe in Fate - in fact those two contradict - if a sole creator is testing us and is all knowing, then he must know what will happen, thus the test he is setting us is in vain as we cannot chance our destiny. Why must it be Karma?...Why can't it be, if we are all connected to all there is, that we also are part of the decision making in reincarnation on what we would like to experience....Karma to me is a judgment of some sort....Not by ourselves, which would take us out of the creation/creative process...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Why must it be Karma?...Why can't it be, if we are all connected to all there is, that we also are part of the decision making in reincarnation on what we would like to experience....Karma to me is a judgment of some sort....Not by ourselves, which would take us out of the creation/creative process...

You are partly wrong and partly right.

Karma is not a judgment of any kind.

Yes, we are connected. Each of us have our own karma, but all together we share a common karma.

Common Karma
Say that three times feal fast.

NO....I thought Karma is "If you didn't learn the first time then you go through it again"....or "if you were wrong there will be a payback in your next life..."

Theres no such thing as making a wrong decision in your life. Its your life, u can live it however u want

Originally posted by debbiejo
Why must it be Karma?...Why can't it be, if we are all connected to all there is, that we also are part of the decision making in reincarnation on what we would like to experience....Karma to me is a judgment of some sort....Not by ourselves, which would take us out of the creation/creative process... Originally posted by debbiejo
NO....I thought Karma is "If you didn't learn the first time then you go through it again"....or "if you were wrong there will be a payback in your next life..."

Nope, you are actually wrong.

Karma, from Buddhist stance means cause and effect - you will reap what you sow - nothing to do with punishment.

Karma cannot be a punishment because that undermines the good Karma, such as if you do a lot of work for University your excellent grade is your Karma - cause and effect.

Its a common misconception about Karma - unless you are a hindu - Buddhist understanding of Karma is cause and effect.

I think Jesus mentioned something aobut that - those who lvie by the sword will die by the sword, or something similar.
It basically means that.

I don't too much about Karma, so let me ask this....If you were a Hitler then would you be reincarnated in like lets say a chicken....Or is it like if you were born into poverty and made the best of it, then in your next life you would be born more with prosperous things coming your way.

See to me, if there is some kind of reincarnation....you would be more in control of your next adventure in life for the purpose of experiencing what you want....still part of the creation process...Let say Living in a "heavenly" type place, would and could get boring, so you decided "I want to see what it's like to OVER COME something"...so you chose to be born with addiction tendencies.....do you see what I mean.?

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't too much about Karma, so let me ask this....If you were a Hitler then would you be reincarnated in like lets say a chicken....Or is it like if you were born into poverty and made the best of it, then in your next life you would be born more with prosperous things coming your way.

See to me, if there is some kind of reincarnation....you would be more in control of your next adventure in life for the purpose of experiencing what you want....still part of the creation process...Let say Living in a "heavenly" type place, would and could get boring, so you decided "I want to see what it's like to OVER COME something"...so you chose to be born with addiction tendencies.....do you see what I mean.?

Hitler chicken lol

Sorry, ahem...


This isnt true for all branches of Buddhism, but in the ralms of superstition within buddhism, here it is -


you probably have heard of the Rebirth within Buddhism and the 31 realms. Im not sure what each of them is specifficaly, but i do know they are devided in the 6 main ones -

3 favourable realms and 3 unfavourable realms.

3 Unfavourable realms, one can be reborn into are hellish beings, hungry ghosts and animals.

3 Favurable realms one would consider favurable to be reborn in are human beings, demi-gods and gods.

I'll go quick through what each one of them are -

Hellish Beings, which i would assuyme hitler would be placed in are people in suffering caused by ill-will, constant killing, hateret, cruelty, etc. The being suffers here until its bad karma is exausted. So until hitler in this instance pays for the ill-will he has done, he will be a Hellish being - once his Karma is cleared, he will be reborn again with the oppertunity to chance that.

Hungry ghosts realm is born of those whos Karma was consisted of greed. They are said to suffer from hunger, thirst and cold all the time. When they see food or water, they run towards it, but it dissapears in front of their eyes - as i said, that hungry ghost karma is born of extreame greed

Then you have animals - being reborn into an animal is the intent supression of knowledge - ignorance, the utter desire and over ezting, over sexually desiering overdoing in a sinister way all the animal desires. Animals suffer because they kill each other for food, they are killed by humans for food etc and if they are not killed, they are domesticated and forced to work for a man till they die.

The 3 favourable ralms are humans , demi-gods and gods.

Being born into a demi-god means greater intelect, greater strenght, but also jealousy of the Gods - it is a constant competition between them, and while they are superiour they are also in conflict.

Being reborn into a God means the superme knowledge and intelect, but also great pride - being a god, although favourable, once the cycle of birth kicks in, and the being is reborn into something else, the fall from such hights is an undescribable suffering.

The best one to be reborn in is human out of the six. Because Humans make their Karma - they cause and effect - they can dictate acording to their karma where they will be reborn.

The point is to brake this cycle - the point is not to to reborn into God or demi-god - hecause as soon as the good Karma is exaused, the person is reborn into a different realm. The point is to brake this cycle of rebirth - to become enlightened.



As i already said, this is NOT the case for all branches of Buddhism.

Thank you.....and BTW...it was shaky that said he does't feel bad about eating chicken, cause he just imagines them all evil Hitles reincarnated over and over again...

lol

I guess i dont either, i love chicken droolio

For most of the Buddhism there is no such thing as a physical Hell, its more of a mental state, i think.

Im not sure if same applies to this view - i would hope so, but yeah it is very interesting.

Iv been reading up on Satre and his opinion is that everyone is responsible for evrything they do, despite being influenced by other things, any choice you make has been made by you, you cannot be forced against your will- it is your choice to succumb and anything you want to achieve can easily be done if you are determined enough -you have the abilty to shape your own future and to overcome any obstacles that might be placed in your way.
He thinks that by believing that an external force is responsible for determining your path in life you are merely avoiding the responsibility of being in control, or you are shying away from bearing the consequences of your actions.
He believes that you can be whatever you want to be and that you are directly responsible for whatever you are, or become. So if you are a coward, it is because you are chosing to be a coward; if you are scared of something, it means you are chosing to be scared of it.
Essentially the idea is that we are all in control of our own personal lives and that we are responsible for identifying, pursuing and achieving our own destiny.

Originally posted by Biscuit
Iv been reading up on Satre and his opinion is that everyone is responsible for evrything they do, despite being influenced by other things, any choice you make has been made by you, you cannot be forced against your will- it is your choice to succumb and anything you want to achieve can easily be done if you are determined enough -you have the abilty to shape your own future and to overcome any obstacles that might be placed in your way.
He thinks that by believing that an external force is responsible for determining your path in life you are merely avoiding the responsibility of being in control, or you are shying away from bearing the consequences of your actions.
He believes that you can be whatever you want to be and that you are directly responsible for whatever you are, or become. So if you are a coward, it is because you are chosing to be a coward; if you are scared of something, it means you are chosing to be scared of it.
Essentially the idea is that we are all in control of our own personal lives and that we are responsible for identifying, pursuing and achieving our own destiny.

You now have hold of the most powerful tool you will ever have in your life. Self-responsibility is the key for the start of a journey of enlightenment.

If you are responsible, you can change for the better. You will still make mistakes, but will be able to learn from them. If you take this belief to heart, you will have a powerful life.

All this silly theories about the re-incarnation into animals, hell beings, etc. is totally a misinterpretation about Buddhism: for one thing, Buddhism does NOT teach re-incarnation, but it teaches rebirth within one's life into different states or conditions of the mind and kamma(not karma) effected-conditions of one's environment.

Well with the Hitlers thing...though it's called cause and effect, to me something is making the decision of what is to be done with him..to be in the hellish realms...

I've heard of another view of reincarnation which is that at ones dead which would bring you back to the source of all there is...you're life is reviewed with other for the incites and choices you've made, and then you decided if you would want to reincarnate with certain "Contracts" being attached to yourself...Contracts are the things in which you chose to experience like being born with addictions lets say for the purpose of overcoming them...and the lesson in that life would be a life of "Overcoming"...Could be overcoming many things.....But the idea is that you picked it yourself...and there is no judgment involved in this....You could also chose NOT to reincarnate, or later on reincarnate.