If Sauron regained the One Ring...

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Batman Returns
.....how the hell would he put it back on his "finger"???? i mean, he's a spirit right? or in the sense of the movie trilogy, a big "flameing eye" spirit thats on top of barad-dur. so lets say he got the Ring, how would he "put it on"? lol, silly question, i know, but im just curious. also, wasnt his finger cut off by Isildur?

fini
well in simplistic form, wouldn't Sauron have 9 other fingers to put on the ring? And the spirit of Sauron doesn't have fingers, the body he manifested in last time had fingers.

Batman Returns
Originally posted by fini
well in simplistic form, wouldn't Sauron have 9 other fingers to put on the ring? And the spirit of Sauron doesn't have fingers, the body he manifested in last time had fingers.

that doesnt quite make sense to me. forget about the fingers thing, i mean, how would he put on the ring once he got it? like, how doies a spirit attach a ring to itself?

Some_Black_Guy
Originally posted by Batman Returns
.....how the hell would he put it back on his "finger"???? i mean, he's a spirit right? or in the sense of the movie trilogy, a big "flameing eye" spirit thats on top of barad-dur. so lets say he got the Ring, how would he "put it on"? lol, silly question, i know, but im just curious. also, wasnt his finger cut off by Isildur?

LMFAO@this question, a good question, and funny too. My only guess is that the ring might give him the ability to take corporeal form but I don't know how a spirit would put it on either. Maybe spirits work differently in the LOTR, like how the ghosts could touch humans in the movie and kill them whereas in some movies they can't touch anything.

fini
Sauron was a higher bring/spirit, and he has th abilty to take different shapes and form when he needed to. There are many instances where he took different forms.

"wrought for himself a new shape; and it was terrible, for his fair semblance had departed for ever when he was cast into the abyss at the drowning of Numenor. He took up again the great Ring and clothed himself in power" -The Silmarillion.

And in FACT, Sauron could take shape again in the third age

'Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough,' said Gollum shuddering' (The Two Towers: The Black Gate is closed)

AND TO back up the answer to the question

And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency; and Sauron forged it in the Mountain of Fire in the Land of Shadow.Silmarillion, Of the RIngs of Power and the Third Age

So when the ring was destroyed, he lost a great deal of his spirit, and was thus himself, vanquished from the physical world.And he wasn't destroyed completely, he was reduced to an impotent spirit that could not again have a physical body, nor cause mischief.

ESB-1138
They would throw the ring into the eye and in it Sauron would regain his full power and form. That's my guess.

fini
THERE WAS NEVER an eye to start with.

THe reference of Sauron being an eye is 100% metaphorical.

ESB-1138
Read the books. Gandalf says, 'Sauron has taken the form of a giant flaming eye' or something like that.

Exabyte

Fëanor
Originally posted by Batman Returns
.....how the hell would he put it back on his "finger"???? i mean, he's a spirit right? or in the sense of the movie trilogy, a big "flameing eye" spirit thats on top of barad-dur. so lets say he got the Ring, how would he "put it on"? lol, silly question, i know, but im just curious. also, wasnt his finger cut off by Isildur? laughing

sorry bro! you just remind me of ME when i first came here....but i did have the advantage of having read all the books before the movie no expression

The Inkeeper
Sauron's all seeing eye was his Palantir, the flame things was just a nice effect he used to scare and intimidate people, like the man on wizard of oz big grin.


Sauron i think had a physical body again, and he would simply slide the ring onto one of this other fingers, but he did seem to lose about 4 in the film lol.

gandalftheblack
Sauron did not have a physical body or anything - he is just a spirit, as it has been said. If he did get the ring, well, he would probably have the orc construct/grow or whatever a suitable body for him, into which he would 'pour' his soul... Since Sauron as such is immaterial, this seems to be the only option...

Batman Returns
they dont say that Sauron was a "physical" form in the book, he IS a spirit in the books. duh. i thought everyone knew that. even saruman says in the books (and movie) that he cannot take physcial form yet until he gets the ring. true, the "eye" is a metaphorical use, but its what ppl probably DID see when the eye of Sauron was upon them. at least thats what i took from the books. but everyone has to always take that stupid gollum metaphor about his "four fingers" and take it litterally, and that too is metaphorical, meaning that if sauon ever took pohysical shape again, he would only have four fingers on his hand (cuz of isildur cutting one off), but as a spirit, he HAS no fingers, its metaphorical for if he WAS physical again!

The Inkeeper
So why does Gollum speak as though he has seen him? And if he is just a spirit how come he has four fingers on the black hand? Was it some cheesy translucent spirit that came to gollum? or did an orc dress up for a laugh?

Batman Returns
Originally posted by The Inkeeper
So why does Gollum speak as though he has seen him? And if he is just a spirit how come he has four fingers on the black hand? Was it some cheesy translucent spirit that came to gollum? or did an orc dress up for a laugh?

no......hes using what we call a "metaphor" when he speaks to the hobbits. he says "four fingers are enough" cuz he knows the story about how isildur cut his finger off. he's using "cunning".

gandalftheblack
Originally posted by Batman Returns
if sauon ever took pohysical shape again, he would only have four fingers on his hand (cuz of isildur cutting one off), but as a spirit, he HAS no fingers, its metaphorical for if he WAS physical again!

Not necessarily - as you rightly point our Sauron is only a spirit and has no body - then if he get/creates himself a new one, it may well contain all the fingers - irrespective of what happened in the past...

fini
NO he wont, since he has turned to evil, he looses his ability to transform back completely to a past body. So maybe in a previous age, he would have come back fully restored, but he has lost some of his power, so he will come back with the 9 fingers.

Some_Black_Guy

Ingwë Eldaran

Jaro
Sam saw the Eye of Sauron on top of the tower himself.

^^[leane]
Originally posted by Some_Black_Guy
Whoa, who's that girl in your avatar? big grin

hein ??

Ingwë Eldaran
Originally posted by Jaro
Sam saw the Eye of Sauron on top of the tower himself.

Rephrase: The "Eye" was on top of the Tower, (as it would seem), but it was not the only manifestation of Sauron.

JediMasterLuke5
If sauron would have regained the ring, Gandalf would ask the Valar if they would allow him to use all of his power and then he would destroy Sauron. Muhahahahaha

Jaro
Gandalf is no where near as strong as Sauron. Because if we was Gandalf could have handle the ring without problems but he dare not touch it knowing the ring would overcome him.

JediMasterLuke5
Nobody can handle the ring duh, not even Morgoth if he was alive. The ring answer's to its one master.

Gandalf on the other hand could have tooken Sauron out. The Valar only allowed the Istari to contest the Power of Sauron, they said that the Istari werenot allowed to match or better the power of Sauron. If the Valar would have allowed Gandalf to use his power to better Sauron, Gandalf would have destoyed him.

DanielLB
The only person that would be able to manage the ring would be Tom Bombadil-for in his verys soul and heart he had absolute no desire for it, whereas, Galadriel,Gandalf, Aragorn, Sam, Boromir, Sauron, Gollum, Morgoth and so on had some sort of desire for itsmile

Celestial
Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Nobody can handle the ring duh, not even Morgoth if he was alive. The ring answer's to its one master.

Gandalf on the other hand could have tooken Sauron out. The Valar only allowed the Istari to contest the Power of Sauron, they said that the Istari werenot allowed to match or better the power of Sauron. If the Valar would have allowed Gandalf to use his power to better Sauron, Gandalf would have destoyed him.

Sauron returned to Mordor, and in Mount Doom around 1600 he forged the One Ring to rule the others. He had to put much of his own strength and will into the Ring so that it could master the other Rings of Power. The One Ring allowed him to perceive and control the thoughts of those who bore the lesser Rings.

When he wielded the One Ring, Sauron's power was enhanced, but there were two inherent dangers. First, if someone with great strength of will claimed the Ring, that person could become Sauron's master. Second, if the Ring were destroyed, Sauron would also be destroyed because he would no longer have sufficient power to maintain his existence and would be reduced to nothing more than a shadow. But Sauron could not conceive that anyone would try to destroy the Ring, and he knew that no one - not even himself - would have the strength of will to do so.

If Gandalf was so great he would have been able to wield the ring and become Sauron's master but he was weaker then he and would have never been a match for Sauron.

JediMasterLuke5
Originally posted by Celestial
Sauron returned to Mordor, and in Mount Doom around 1600 he forged the One Ring to rule the others. He had to put much of his own strength and will into the Ring so that it could master the other Rings of Power. The One Ring allowed him to perceive and control the thoughts of those who bore the lesser Rings.

When he wielded the One Ring, Sauron's power was enhanced, but there were two inherent dangers. First, if someone with great strength of will claimed the Ring, that person could become Sauron's master. Second, if the Ring were destroyed, Sauron would also be destroyed because he would no longer have sufficient power to maintain his existence and would be reduced to nothing more than a shadow. But Sauron could not conceive that anyone would try to destroy the Ring, and he knew that no one - not even himself - would have the strength of will to do so.

If Gandalf was so great he would have been able to wield the ring and become Sauron's master but he was weaker then he and would have never been a match for Sauron.

No one can wield the ring except sauron. All the ring does is give the power to control the other rings. Read the part I said about the Valar, maybe that will make you change your mind.

Celestial
Let's look at some facts.
Morgoth greatest warrior was Sauron and he had an army of Balrogs.
Gandalf was killed by a Balrog (and he killed the Balrog so it's a draw)
Sauron is greater then all Nine Nazgul combined and Gandalf couldn't defeat them.

Sauron>Balrog=Gandalf
Sauron>Nine Nazgul>Gandalf

Celestial

JediMasterLuke5
Originally posted by Celestial


Sauron>Balrog=Gandalf
Sauron>Nine Nazgul>Gandalf

Thats a bunch of bull crapt. Its more like this.

Gandalf>>>> Balrog
Gandalf>>Nine Nazgul
Balrog>>Nine Nazgul

The nine nazgul wouldnt be able to do shit to the Balrog.

Gandalf killed the Balrog. Gandalf may have died but after he killed the Balrog. And plus he killed the Balrog when he was Gandalf the Grey, now he is Gandalf the White with far greater power then before. Gandalf came back as Gandalf the White more powerful than anyone who currently walks middle earth. Freaking read the part about the Valor to prove Gandalf was more powerful the Sauron.

Heres the facts and read the quotes from the book


"Gandalf: Dangerous, And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet."

also here's another quote....

"The Dark Lord has Nine. But we have One, mightier then they are: the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss, and they shall fear him."

"Mightier then they are" means he greater then all Nazgul.

Ushgarak
Gandalf HIMSELF specified that he was not more powerful than Sauron. Geez, you could at least read the entirity of your own quotes; he says that after the quote you use there!

JediMasterLuke5
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Gandalf HIMSELF specified that he was not more powerful than Sauron. Geez, you could at least read the entirity of your own quotes; he says that after the quote you use there!
The reason he says that is becuz the Valor will not allow him to use his full power. The Valor only allowed the Istari to contest the will of Sauron, they dont allow him to match or better Sauron even though they could. If the Valor allowed Gandalf to use all of his power he could destroy Sauron. But if the Valor wouldnt allow it, then Gandalf would put up a great fight but in the end loose.

Ushgarak
Again, it's nothing to do with this 'full power' use, and even if it was, then we are talking about Gandalf with whatever power he can use, not whatveer theoretical power you may wish to give him, because that is irrelevant to the story.

Why assume he is greater than Sauron anyway? Gandalf is not from a more powerful race, and Sauron has grown mighty indeed. As Gandalf himself also says, he is Gandalf the White- but Black is greater still.

Celestial
I do not know why you think Gandalf is this almighty god when he said himself the Witch-King could best him.

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Chapter IV: The Siege of Gondor Pg. 800-801 (One volume edition)
'Is Faramir come?' he asked.
'No,' said Gandalf. 'But he still lived when I left him. Yet he is resolved to stay with the reargurad, lest the retreat over the Pelennor become a rout. He may, perhaps, hold his men together long enough, but I doubt it. He is pitted against a foe too great. For one has come that I feared.'
'Not - the Dark Lord?' cried Pippin, forgetting his place in his terror.
Denethor laughed bitterly. 'Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wair, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand.'
He stood up and cast opened his long black cloak, and behold! he was clad in mail beneath, and grit with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. 'Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept,' he said, 'lest we age the body should grow soft and timid.'
'Yet now under the Lord of Barad-dur the most fell of all his captains is already master of your outer walls' said Gandalf. 'King of Angmar long ago, Sorcerer, Ringwraith, Lord of the Nazgul, a spear of terror in the hand of Sauron, shadow of despair.'
'Then, Mithrandir, you had a foe to match you,' Said Denethor. 'For myself, I have long known who is chief captain of the hosts of the Dark Tower. Is this all that you have returned to say? Or cab it be that you have withdrawn because you are overmatched?'
Pippin trembled, fearing that Gandalf would be stung to sudden wrath, but his fear was needless. 'It might be so,' Gandalf answered softly.

Discos
my theory is that someone would toss the ring into the great eye, and out of nowhere the figure of Sauron would return at 100% health (with all fingers) and with new shiney armour.

or he could perhaps could as the form of a silly vampire again smile

Covert22
this thread made my stomach turn...

Bombadil was someone regarded as elder to Gandalf, Gandalf in turn was a mere Isatari... the Valar sent a few Miar and there is no reason to concieve that Gandalf in any form is more powerful than Saruman or even Radagast or the 'unspoken' wizards such as the blue wizard...


Gandalf had some special abilities he could tap and to imply that he could if he was 'allowed' would then apply as well to Saruman who worked against the Valar's interest could use some 'uber power' (note- VALAR not VALOR)...


furthermore Gandalf was bested by a mere Balrog which in turn is another miar.


and going to the form of sauron, if you try looking around at the opinion of bigger geeks than yourselves or even reading closer you will see that Sauron has a physical body, similar to his first and only diminished in ability due to not have the ring in his possesion. Its silly to even suggest that he doesnt.


besides the exception of perhaps Bombadil 1v1 Sauron was the most powerful force in Middle Earth and nothing short of a miar wielding the one ring would have a chance of defeating him in combat.

Celestial
I could undertsand the fact that Gandalf the Grey wasn't stronger then Saruman but he wasn't bested by a Balrog for he killed the Balrog and the Balrog killed him so:
Gandalf the Grey=Balrog

Covert22
note- i should have an "if" before gandalf...


my point was that to think Gandalf was any more powerful than a balrog ever... is silly and to think sauron has no physical body would be even sillier.

shaber
Sauron would then have been able to regenerate a body and in any case, he was able to move the Ring by psychokinesis without one when coming back from the abyss after the downfall of Numenor.

ESB- 1138
If Sauron regained the One Ring it would be the end of Middle-Earth as we know it.

Stratigo
Actually I believe a Balrog can best Gandolf. Not all Balrog are created equal and a Balrog of Mordor could probably best gandolf.

As for fingers I beilieve that when Sauron's spirit touches the ring, then Sauron will be able to manifest again.

Covert22
Taken from the enclopedia of arda... i think we can all agree these nerds have done thier homework...

"We've already commented in the Movie-goers' Guides for The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers on the film-maker's decision to depict Sauron as a giant glowing eye, whereas Tolkien imagined him as a physical being. In fact his brief appearance in the prologue to the movie of The Fellowship of the Ring - huge and armoured, but basically human in shape - would have been more in keeping with Tolkien's description of him during the War of the Ring.

In fact, there's no clear description of Sauron in The Lord of the Rings itself - we have to resort to Tolkien's correspondence for that. What there are, though, are numerous comments and references that only really make sense if Sauron has a physical form (not least, of course, the fact that a disembodied Dark Lord wouldn't have been able to wear his own Ring).

It's curious, then, to find that one of these clues to his physical nature has been included in the movie's script. Outside the Morannon, Aragorn issues a challenge taken directly from the books: 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him.' (The Return of the King V 10). This makes perfect sense if Sauron has a physical body, but how exactly Aragorn expects a disembodied Red Eye to 'come forth' from the gate, let alone to 'do justice' on it, is something of a mystery.

There's a clue to this among the material that accompanies the Extended Edition. It seems that the film-makers considered the possibility of Sauron emerging from the Morannon himself, in his full armoured form, to fight Aragorn in single combat. In that context, Aragorn's challenge makes a great deal more sense (though nothing remotely like this happens in the book). "


So there ya have it, if you think that all Sauron really is, is a giant flaming eye...well so sad, so sorry, you are wrong...

thanks for playing, next time know your stuff before you conject to something so... stupid.

LadyOfMirkwood9
One word IT"S THE END OF THE WORLD

Draugwen
That's six words stick out tongue

thefallen544

sauronking8
We all seem to have forgotten a big detail... The Necromancer. It says that the Necromancer was Sauron, so in answer to the ORIGINAL question...(God I hate it when we get off onto sidetopics)... I believe that, and I may quote...

" Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky.
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone.
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die.
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."

Who's to say that Sauron didn't just come back to Barad-dur in the form of the Necromancer, rebuild Barad-dur fully, and sit back down on his throne with the Palantir by him, or even in the next room??
So my suggestion is that Sauron, The Necromancer, is in Barad-dur as a somewhat human form, waiting for his Ringwraiths to find the One Ring. He still has nine fingers after all, right?

Ms.Marvel
i dont understand how middle earth was eternally doomed if sauron regained the ring. he already had the ring once... and someone chopped off his finger. no expression

surely there are enough guys with swords in middle earth to continue with the finger chopping?

Samurai100
Lord of the rings Conquest

leonheartmm
actually sauron was corporeal even in the late portion of the lord of the rings. that was how he faced the king through the palantari and thats how the hobbit{was it frodo or merry} described it after he stole a look at the palaneteri from gandalf.

Tharkun
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i dont understand how middle earth was eternally doomed if sauron regained the ring. he already had the ring once... and someone chopped off his finger. no expression

surely there are enough guys with swords in middle earth to continue with the finger chopping?

Sauron only really lost the ring by his own arrogance. He didn't have to go waving it around while he aided his troops in battle.

Also, Isildur's sword stroke was blind luck and it was with the shattered blade of Narsil, one of the few blades which could get through Sauron's armour.

Finally, the heros of then were greater and the elves power was stronger, I doubt Middle Earth could resist the power of Sauron and his armies in the state it was in during the War of the Ring.

ADarksideJedi
I am sure he will find a way or not wear the ring and keep it safe somewhere.

ares834
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i dont understand how middle earth was eternally doomed if sauron regained the ring. he already had the ring once... and someone chopped off his finger. no expression
surely there are enough guys with swords in middle earth to continue with the finger chopping?
Actually in the book his ring was cut off his dead body. H ehad already been slain in combat with Elendil and Gil-Galad.

Regardless Middleearth would be screwed. A common theme is that the world and her people have been declining over that years. This is true the military forces of the men and elves of the third age would simply not compare to those of the second age. Afterall most of the elves have left ME and those that have remained are usually weaker, and the blood of nemenor is incredibly thin.

Pwned
Yeah if i remember correctly then there is only one person who could hope to last 15 seconds with Sauron, and thats Aragorn because i think in the appendix it said that he was an "image of the kings of old" not sure if it means second or possibly First Age, if it was the first he would last at least 2 minutes if not win o.O

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by ares834
Actually in the book his ring was cut off his dead body. H ehad already been slain in combat with Elendil and Gil-Galad.

Regardless Middleearth would be screwed. A common theme is that the world and her people have been declining over that years. This is true the military forces of the men and elves of the third age would simply not compare to those of the second age. Afterall most of the elves have left ME and those that have remained are usually weaker, and the blood of nemenor is incredibly thin.

Really?

I was uunder the impression Gil-Galad and Elendil simply knocked Sauron to the ground, and Isildur cut the Ring off while he was down.

I'm curious, where is it stated Sauron was killed by Elendil and Gil-Galad.

Nah. Farmer Maggot would one shot Sauron.

ares834
I seem to recall reading it somewhere. And according to the wiki JRR Tolkien says it in one of his letters. I don't have them so I can't check, but other sites all seem to agree with it.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.