Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I personally think that alot of KMC members don't GET the DC icons. They think they do. But they don't. They think they know everything about them from watching Superfriends as a child or reading a thematic paragragh on what they stand for.

But I don't think they really GET who they are. Inside and personally. They get as far as the shallow and unbased perception of their exteriors but really don't take the time to get to their interiors.

Superman is a Boy-Scout with zero personality.

Batman is mean old pedophile who fights crime.

Wonder Woman is kinky whore who fights for peace through war.

But that's it. Based on a majority of the threads on these forums people cannot seem to get past the shallow perception of the characters above.

Anyone agree?

I just don't think the characters are that deep.

However, it's forgivable since they all come from a time when that wasn't expected from comic book characters. They are just Super Heroes, Icons like you said it. Most DC characters are.

Marvel took the route of creating characters you can relate too. Superman was never some geek bitten by a radioactive Spider, or your neighbor who was just born a mutant with extra powers but real life problems. A lot more layers there.

I mean even Batman, DC's poster human was born extremely wealthy. That in itself, seperates him from the majority. It's just hard to relate to those DC icons. They arn't heroes of circumstance, they are just heroes and there isn't much more to them.

That's EXACLY what I mean. You're just basing your assumptions of their character soley based on their origins. Must all superheroes have a some "easy to relate to" event in their lives to be human?

They arn't human :P.

The one who is is also coincidentally one of the richest men on the planet, one of the greatest martial arts masters on the planet, and one of the world's premiere geniuses, and the undisputed greatest detective to have ever lived.

Yeah, so? Does that mean he has no personality. Personally he's like Muhammed Ali or Bruce Lee or that biker who got seven kinds of cancer.

He's human because he exceed what man could ever hope to be. The best because he made himself the best. Tragedy turned into a strength.

He's just determined is all. Kinda like the preppies in high school.

You can say this is the fault of DC and the historical roots of most of its characters, some of whom have been better modernized. When Marvel started publishing in the early 60's, their mandate was to put superheroes and their settings in a more realistic enviroment and light. Proving after some years to be more successful in this approach, DC would start doing the same, after experiments like the O'Neil/Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow series, but much of the roots of characters remained in fanciful territory. Batman, a great character, fought crime in a darkly fictional version of New York(Gotham); Superman does it in a brighter version( Metropolis) - other characters were in fictionalized settings like Central City, Keystone City, Coast City, Hub City etc. There is a tactile feeling to Spider-Man swinging through Manhatten or Dr. Strange being based in Grenwich Village, a feeling of familiarity that brings us closer.
By the 80's, DC was creating characters and putting them in real locations like NY and LA, but they are second tier for the most part to the main ones. Then there is the problem of context for some of the most powerful heroes. Kingdom Come Flash was an example of debate: with this godlike power, why does he content himself with patrolling one city? Or why does Superman stay in Metropolis and concern himself with petty criminals, when he should be dealing with cosmic menaces consistently, like the Silver Surfer at Marvel? Why bother with the secret identity( the glasses?please) and day job of reporter? Defenders will point to his humble, All-American raising on a farm with old fashioned values, as to why he wants to live normally. More intriging ideas were raised by Frank Miller in DK2, showing a Superman deciding he might just take over and run humanity for a change. As Thor eventually did in Marvel - Thor dabbled with the secret identity from time to time, before deciding it wasn't neccessary. And Wonder Woman always had a little less cred from me due to her garish, cheesecake outfit - it's beneath an Amazon warrior princess to wear that. The upcoming movie promises to "update" her look; the Stan Lee Creates DC series, whatever its flaws, had a more real outfit for WW - once again, the Marvel approach.
So that's just my view. DC has some great artists and writers, and you could say they often surpass Marvel in quality, but its the more real feeling of the Marvel Universe that attracts me. Sometimes the question is not who has the better comics, but the better enviroment.
P.S. On a personal note, DC has always ignored Canada. While Canada is a major part of Marvel Universe.

I think the guy who started this thread has made me realise why i generally prefer Marvel. No offence to you or anything but I think that Marvel characters are easier to realte to and therefore a more enjoyable read. But thats just my opinion.

i'll admit a few years ago i saw Superman as nothing more than a set of powers (too many at that)

and i know this is outside of regular continuity, but Smallville has really put him in a much better light.... you can see the troubles he has adapting to his powers and you can see the pain he feels at being so alone because of those powers..... i think it's done way more for Superman's "humanity" than any other of the TV or film adaptations

Good arguement.

Nice clarifications. However it doesn't get to the heart of who the characters really are as persons.

Besides the "iconic" fronts they show off.

Originally posted by Draco69
Yeah, so? Does that mean he has no personality. Personally he's like Muhammed Ali or Bruce Lee or that biker who got seven kinds of cancer.

He's human because he exceed what man could ever hope to be. The best because he made himself the best. Tragedy turned into a strength.

He's just determined is all. Kinda like the preppies in high school.

So? Like it's not a big deal?

He's not like Lee or Ali. Those guys excelled at what they chose to excel at. Not at every single thing humanly possible just so that he could keep up with Superman.

It wasn't tragedy turned into strength. It was tragedy transformed to keep up with Superman and the Justice League.

That's why I don't like the current Batman. He's not Gotham's defender. He's BatGod :P.

I agree with CURRENT Batman statement. He's not supposed to be that. He's supposed to be like Daredevil or Moon Knight. He shouldn't involve himself in things of JLA matter.

They messed up his CURRENT character. But that's not what he REALLY is.

Yeah, that's my main beef with Batman.

But when you set him in a "Batman Begins" type setting then you see how awesome the concept and character really is.

Batman is just suffering from a little Wolverine-syndrome.

Originally posted by Draco69
I agree with CURRENT Batman statement. He's not supposed to be that. He's supposed to be like Daredevil or Moon Knight. He shouldn't involve himself in things of JLA matter.

They messed up his CURRENT character. But that's not what he REALLY is.

Like I said, context. Batman shouldn't be in the JLA. What ever happened to never wearing the costume during the day? It's just because he's so popular.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
They arn't human :P.

The one who is is also coincidentally one of the richest men on the planet, one of the greatest martial arts masters on the planet, and one of the world's premiere geniuses, and the undisputed greatest detective to have ever lived. Most of marvel's charachters arn't human either

Originally posted by 8bitChris
I just don't think the characters are that deep.

However, it's forgivable since they all come from a time when that wasn't expected from comic book characters. They are just Super Heroes, Icons like you said it. Most DC characters are.

Marvel took the route of creating characters you can relate too. Superman was never some geek bitten by a radioactive Spider, or your neighbor who was just born a mutant with extra powers but real life problems. A lot more layers there.

I mean even Batman, DC's poster human was born extremely wealthy. That in itself, seperates him from the majority. It's just hard to relate to those DC icons. They arn't heroes of circumstance, they are just heroes and there isn't much more to them.
superman is easier to relate to than a freak that shares their genes with a spider

Originally posted by eleveninches
Most of marvel's charachters arn't human either


superman is easier to relate to than a freak that shares their genes with a spider

A lot of Marvel's characters are human with human lives. As opposed to Kryptonian.

And no, Superman isn't.

Originally posted by willRules
I think the guy who started this thread has made me realise why i generally prefer Marvel. No offence to you or anything but I think that Marvel characters are easier to realte to and therefore a more enjoyable read. But thats just my opinion. I dont see how you expect me to relate to marvel charachters more just because they live in NYC. I dont live in NYC, so how the hell do you expect me to relate more to them just because of that.

Anyway, there are a lot more main DC charachters that are human than there are marvel charachters that are human. Almost al of marvels charachters are not human

Yer wrong.

Originally posted by eleveninches
I dont see how you expect me to relate to marvel charachters more just because they live in NYC. I dont live in NYC, so how the hell do you expect me to relate more to them just because of that.

Anyway, there are a lot more main DC charachters that are human than there are marvel charachters that are human. Almost al of marvels charachters are not human

only a few of Marvel's main characters aren't human

Originally posted by eleveninches
I dont see how you expect me to relate to marvel charachters more just because they live in NYC. I dont live in NYC, so how the hell do you expect me to relate more to them just because of that.

Anyway, there are a lot more main DC charachters that are human than there are marvel charachters that are human. Almost al of marvels charachters are not human


Well firstly I dont come from New York ( I come from England) and I couldn't care less if the story was set in New York or not.

secondly you may very well be right about if there are more humanized Dc characters than Marvel ( I disagree) but I don't relate to those characters or find them interesting (With the exception of Batman and Nightwing of course) I find Spider-man or the X-men much more interesting because (According to you) they are some of the few humanized characters Marvel has which I can understand and relate to.

Captain America, Iron Man, Spiderman, All Mutants, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, Fantastic Four, and of course Deadpool etc...

Of all the "main" Marvel characters that come to my mind Silver Surfer is the only one who isn't human and he doesn't even have his own book anymore.

And like I just said I relate to more of the Marvel characters for being human than the Dc ones. This is no offence to Dc though cos they are generally producing better stories than Marvel (With the exception of New Avengers, Amazing spidey and Cable and Deadpool)

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Captain America, Iron Man, Spiderman, All Mutants, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, Fantastic Four, and of course Deadpool etc...

Of all the "main" Marvel characters that come to my mind Silver Surfer is the only one who isn't human and he doesn't even have his own book anymore.

well there's Thor, Hercules and BRB, Ghost rider is a but iffy, Cpt Marvel is half Alien... there are a few more... but you get pretty far from the "main" characters when you get to Drax and Starfox

Hercules and BRB are "iffy" main characters though..

but they both have their own titles at present

Alllll.....riiiigggghhhhttt....