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Would Anakin at the beginning of ROTS and Vader before fighting Obi-wan have able to tegether defeat Dooku?

Setting: Naboo Generation Room, where Maul fought Obi-wan and Qui-gon.

I would say Dooku. Why? First off, the way he pwned Obi-Wan, I imagine he could have done the same to Anakin as well, since Anakin never struck me as an impressive force user. So with one out of the way, he can easily manhandle the other.

Tyranus would waste these chumps. . .

Yeah, didn't Anakin, however the controversy on the subject, defeat Dooku at the beginning of ROTS?

And wasn't pre-suit Vader more powerful than said Anakin?

Dooku was holding back against Anakin. Sidious gave him strict orders not to win the fight.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Yeah, didn't Anakin, however the controversy on the subject, defeat Dooku at the beginning of ROTS?

And wasn't pre-suit Vader more powerful than said Anakin?

You can only see in ROTS that Tyranus was toying with Anakin. . .

Originally posted by General Makashi
You can only see in ROTS that Tyranus was toying with Anakin. . . He's still lacking one head though.

Yes. And a pair of hands. . .Tyranus would still waste them.

It's just illogical though. You got the guy who was CLOSE to Dooku in skill, then you got the guy who has got to be at LEAST level with Dooku. Together, and they would both be pwnd?

Who the hell said Anakin was anywhere close to Dooku's skill level?

Dooku could have pwned Anakin. the only reason he got beat was that (imo) je was so surprised that sidious turned against him that he "threw" the fight

His original intent may not have been to kill Skywalker. But like it or not, he was utterly overhwhelmed by him when Anakin went darkside. If Dooku was so much superior to Anakin, he would never have allowed his hands to be severed. Dooku is not as godly as many people seem to think he is.

Now, I too consider him an amazing duelist. Hence why, in the thread that now centers around Vos, I said that he is superior to Anakin and/or Obi-Wan. But he is not that far above them. Or else he would have simply surrendered to Anakin instead of allowing himself to be maimed, and soon after, killed.

whatever until GL will say something all we can do is guess

Well, the thing that really swings this fight in Dooku's favor, Faunus, is his amazing control of the Force. In ROTS, he didn't use anything on Anakin, not even some mild lightning. If he had, he never would have been in that situation. Remember how easily Dooku threw Obi-Wan, and in the final battle, Obi-Wan and Anakin are matched for Force powers, despite Anakin's obvious higher potential and anger. If Dooku was fighting for his life, this would be a no-nonsense kinda battle; some lightning here, some Force shoving there, and a saber stroke of ten if he needs them. But his fighting philosophy is one of efficiency. He could do this.

So we know Dooku is strong enough to defeat Anakin, but not strong enough to control him.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
His original intent may not have been to kill Skywalker. But like it or not, he was utterly overhwhelmed by him when Anakin went darkside. If Dooku was so much superior to Anakin, he would never have allowed his hands to be severed. Dooku is not as godly as many people seem to think he is.

Now, I too consider him an amazing duelist. Hence why, in the thread that now centers around Vos, I said that he is superior to Anakin and/or Obi-Wan. But he is not that far above them. Or else he would have simply surrendered to Anakin instead of allowing himself to be maimed, and soon after, killed.

Dooku had to be defeated by Anakin because Anakin (having a look on Sidious own plans) should be the "hero of the day". Don't you think that people (in this case the Jedi and the Senate) would have been suspicious if Dooku had simply surrendered ? Why should he have done that ? So Anakin had to defeat him and this means killing him or leaving him unarmed (destroying his lightsaber, cutting his hands off).

I'm pretty sure Dooku was overwhelmed when Anakin cut his hands off but if he had used all his abilities this fight would have been over after he threw Obi-Wan through the room. He had both Obi-Wan and Anakin on the ground (after kicking Anakin away and throwing Obi-Wan) and he would have easily been able to cut Anakin down and after that kill Obi-Wan if he would have liked to do so. He didn't. Same after locking sabers with Anakin an telling him to use his hate - he holds his lightsaber up and waits for Anakin instead simply cutting him down.

And - if I might remind you - Anakin and Obi-Wan are pretty much equal in ROTS and Dooku was able to kick them both around without using all his abilities. Why should 2 Anakins be a greater problem for him if he's allowed to use all he can use ?

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Dooku had to be defeated by Anakin because Anakin (having a look on Sidious own plans) should be the "hero of the day". Don't you think that people (in this case the Jedi and the Senate) would have been suspicious if Dooku had simply surrendered ? Why should he have done that ? So Anakin had to defeat him and this means killing him or leaving him unarmed (destroying his lightsaber, cutting his hands off).

I'm pretty sure Dooku was overwhelmed when Anakin cut his hands off but if he had used all his abilities this fight would have been over after he threw Obi-Wan through the room. He had both Obi-Wan and Anakin on the ground (after kicking Anakin away and throwing Obi-Wan) and he would have easily been able to cut Anakin down and after that kill Obi-Wan if he would have liked to do so. He didn't. Same after locking sabers with Anakin an telling him to use his hate - he holds his lightsaber up and waits for Anakin instead simply cutting him down.

And - if I might remind you - Anakin and Obi-Wan are pretty much equal in ROTS and Dooku was able to kick them both around without using all his abilities. Why should 2 Anakins be a greater problem for him if he's allowed to use all he can use ?

Competely agree. Dooku takes them out.

Mega cool thread! Anakin has supercool teamwork with himself because he trusts and knows himself very well, Anakin would chop Dooku into peaces with the help of Anakin! Case closed!!

Would he? First of all one of them is dark the other one is light. The Dark one would have no problem the light one probably wouldn't want to see the Dark One. And how would they work together as a team? They don't aid each other they would just try to do the same thing at the same time.

Sorry, they are working together, that was agreed, case closed.

Right... So i'm not going to listen to you anymore.

I'm not denying Dooku's superiority. But it's rather irksome how Dooku is becoming this Dueling God. But here, I doubt that the dual Skywalkers have a chance. Light Side Anakin alone is headstrong, and Vader. . . well, he gets to, and I'm quoting you on this Janus, 'pay half off at the tanning salon.' And they lack in full the essence of comraderie and flawless teamwork that was shared by the Light Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I'm not denying Dooku's superiority. But it's rather irksome how Dooku is becoming this Dueling God. But here, I doubt that the dual Skywalkers have a chance. Light Side Anakin alone is headstrong, and Vader. . . well, he gets to, and I'm quoting you on this Janus, 'pay half off at the tanning salon.' And they lack in full the essence of comraderie and flawless teamwork that was shared by the Light Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I agree.. It's like Dooku's getting stronger and stronger with the days on this Forum, the next step will probably be Dooku being better than Sidious. Dooku fan galore here.

It's called thinking outside of the box. Dooku has displayed Force powers and lightsaber techniques that make him one of the heaviest hitters in the series. He beats Obi-Wan with relative ease, and those few times he didn't give ground but instead attacked Anakin the boy was on his back (See the kick in particular. Imagine in a swordfight catching someone with the Force, choking them and tossing them like a ragdoll, all the while backkicking a young man behind you and a reputed warrior, in less than a few seconds. That moment right there told me he wasn't inferior to either of them even together.)

I think it's amusing that the battle with Dooku in ROTS mirrors Luke versus Vader in ROTJ: a younger, less experienced and headstrong individual defeats the second strongest Sith in the galaxy in scenarios which are highly suspicious. (I'm of the mind that Vader probably threw the fight, even if only to a degree.) Take a look and see how many simularities there are between them.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I think it's amusing that the battle with Dooku in ROTS mirrors Luke versus Vader in ROTJ: a younger, less experienced and headstrong individual defeats the second strongest Sith in the galaxy in scenarios which are highly suspicious. (I'm of the mind that Vader probably threw the fight, even if only to a degree.) Take a look and see how many simularities there are between them.

That's GL saving a few bucks on story writing for you. lol.

Seriously though, the fights are supposed to be similar. They are close, except Luke rejects the Darkside where Anakin does not. Luke was also probably closer to Vader in power than Anakin was to Dooku.

Vader and Anakin might win, but I doubt it, even if they declared a temporary truce to battle Dooku together before they duked it out I doubt they'd fight very well along side each other. Vader would probably accidentally stab Anakin and then Tyranus would defeat Vader.

Yeah I think Dooku would win the fight but I'm not really sure. It's a difference fighting Obi & Anakin than fighting Anakin & Anakin. Note that Obi-Wan was a Soresu master and defended more than he attacked and thought before he did. Anakin had a really agressive style and rushed into combat. Anakin was also a very good swordsman at this time and it would probably be hard to parry Anakins attacks x2 when Dooku couldent control 1 Anakin in ROTS. It also might be hard for him to use the force on them because he will constantly be attacked. But even, dispite all this I belive Dooku would have a chance since he is the best duellist in the council and has really strong force powers. But as I said I'm not sure.

Oh my.. In the OT Vader was supposed to be the legendary warrior, Palpatine even let him kill Dooku because he saw him as an incredible talent.. But now everybody's 'thinking outside the box' and Dooku turns out to be legendary.. I'm beginning to hate the prequel trilogy..

Originally posted by darthsith19
Vader and Anakin might win, but I doubt it, even if they declared a temporary truce to battle Dooku together before they duked it out I doubt they'd fight very well along side each other. Vader would probably accidentally stab Anakin and then Tyranus would defeat Vader.

He would accidently stab Anakin?
That's a creepy way to argue..

Originally posted by overlord
Oh my.. In the OT Vader was supposed to be the legendary warrior, Palpatine even let him kill Dooku because he saw him as an incredible talent.. But now everybody's 'thinking outside the box' and Dooku turns out to be legendary.. I'm beginning to hate the prequel trilogy..

Uh, Anakin was a very good fighter, and had potential to be perhaps one of the best. But legendary? This is wikipedia fanboy BS. Dooku is simply that much better. He's an eighty year old jedi master and the only practitioner of the refinement of lightsaber fighting form. Plus, he shows some of the most considerable Force manipulation in the entire series besides Yoda and Sidious. On screen, no one else displays anything close to his level, except of course Yoda and Sidious who are probably higher.

And "thinking outside of the box" is one of the wonders of free will. If you mock thinking outside of the box, you shouldn't neccessarily be opposed to everyone telling you what to think.

Whatever, I was just saying that in the OT Vader was supposed to be the greatest warrior ever, if Dooku was really as good as you fanboys say, why did Sidious order Dooku's death?
I know you all think Sidious is wack, but I think he isn't as stupid as everybody thinks.. I will cling crying to this opinion forever.

He ordered Dooku's death because the Count, not 80, wouldn't be of use for too much longer. Anakin, however, was about a quarter of his age, and prophecized to be the most powerful being the galaxy had ever seen. Sidious, however, didn't account for Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Anakin had such enormous potential, being a child of the force!
He was not to be underestimated, only ROTJ screwed him up a bit, Luke being able to defeat him without all those years of training.
But Anakin WAS supposed to be the greatest warrior ever in ANH who destroyed the jedi.

No, that is not correct. Where are you getting this from?

He was the second greatest in ANH. After destroying Obi Wan he could not be challenged or rivaled. He was second to the Emperor alone. Of course those two were pretty much the only force users that could still move a bit.

Mhuhahaha! According to my personal opinion Vader was mucho grande more powerfull than Obi Wan!! MFUHAHAHA!! Just when you thought you could have normal conversation with overlord his other personality takes over!!!! HAHAHA!!!
Hey!! I just thought of something!! If Obi was better than Vader why didn't he just defeat him! Because he couldn't HA!

Actually, in ANH Obi-Wan didn't kill a soul. This includes Vader. Why? Because he still had hope for redemption. And he was right.

What are you talking about??

What do you think? The philosophical messages in the series. It's not just hack and slash you know.

No, Janus, I don't think he does.

I know. I was being sarcastic.

*decides to point out the obvious*

I would say Dooku takes this.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
What do you think? The philosophical messages in the series. It's not just hack and slash you know.

This makes even less sense.. You are becoming me!!
Maybe I should cut down the sarcasm as it is probably pretty confusing to when I'm talking serious. Or maybe I shouldn't to be different.. muha.. muhaha.. muhahaha!! AAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

No, I make sense. You don't. I pwn, you don't. I make good posts, you don't. See? It's that simple.

You try.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
No, I make sense. You don't. I pwn, you don't. I make good posts, you don't. See? It's that simple.

You try.

He doesn't have a sig showing Deus Ex II characters... Big Plus... Alex Denton was compeltely ruined by that game IMO...

Edit: What do I have with going off topic lately?

Originally posted by Fishy
He doesn't have a sig showing Deus Ex II characters... Big Plus... Alex Denton was compeltely ruined by that game IMO...

Edit: What do I have with going off topic lately?

I have never played Deus Ex 2.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
No, I make sense. You don't. I pwn, you don't. I make good posts, you don't. See? It's that simple.

You try.

Whatever, brag on little man.. This forum is for fun anyway.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
Dooku could have pwned Anakin. the only reason he got beat was that (imo) je was so surprised that sidious turned against him that he "threw" the fight

Where are people getting these crazy ideas from. Anakin beat Dooku fair and square. I wish people would stop making wild claims like Dooku lost on purpose when there is no evidence to support that. Some of you people need to be a little more mature about how you evaluate these matters without letting favoritism of certain characters cloud your reason.

Guys stop making fun of janus, hes just "challenged" theres nothing wrong with that. Its ok janus, you can have a treat if you respond to me with complete sentences.

Oh and ROTJ vader would win.

Originally posted by aniki
Where are people getting these crazy ideas from. Anakin beat Dooku fair and square. I wish people would stop making wild claims like Dooku lost on purpose when there is no evidence to support that. Some of you people need to be a little more mature about how you evaluate these matters without letting favoritism of certain characters cloud your reason.

whoa, favoritism? Fair and Square? No evidence? Maturity!? Crazy Ideas?

Dooku is superior to anakin, you know it, the movie is the evidence, it shows him wasting obi wan and just bating anakin. There were also many clues in the fight also if you watch carefully which you dont I guess... Dooku after getting his hands cut off had the look like

"wtf, mate? what happened to the plan?"

anakin was only a practionier of his lightsaber style, while Dooku had completley mastered his and Dooku by far was the better force user. What makes you think anakin is so much better than him?

Originally posted by aniki
Where are people getting these crazy ideas from. Anakin beat Dooku fair and square. I wish people would stop making wild claims like Dooku lost on purpose when there is no evidence to support that. Some of you people need to be a little more mature about how you evaluate these matters without letting favoritism of certain characters cloud your reason.

Son...keep this opinon in the movie forum with the rest of the fanboys...

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Guys stop making fun of janus, hes just "challenged" theres nothing wrong with that. Its ok janus, you can have a treat if you respond to me with complete sentences.

Aren't you the kid who argued "cideous" could pwn all?

Please. Don't act superior. You bore me.

lol....

Why did you guys dig up this thread just when I was starting to get on good terms with Janus!!

lol

Good terms isn't something you earn; it's something you maintain. You can be a total moron in one instance, but if you're cool the rest of the time, I'm not likely to hold it against you. It's repeated offenses that irk me.

Well don't think your some kind of god or something that everybody has to earn your gratitude..
Let's just treat everyone as equals shall we?

Who ever said I was god? I'm selective, and intelligent. I reserve the right to judge people to ridiculously high standards at all times while using relatively smudged ones on myself. It's called noblesse oblige.

And your the game informer dude. I'll scan a pic of him in soon.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Aren't you the kid who argued "cideous" could pwn all?

Please. Don't act superior. You bore me.

Im just telling the truth...I am *that* much better than all of you.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Im just telling the truth...I am *that* much better than all of you.

Yes, your ignorance has surpassed us all.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yes, your ignorance has surpassed us all.

Ignorance is bliss.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Who ever said I was god? I'm selective, and intelligent. I reserve the right to judge people to ridiculously high standards at all times while using relatively smudged ones on myself. It's called noblesse oblige.

What the hell, you are intelligent?? Then howcome you interpret 'good terms' as something that must be earned? I thought it meant that you just don't hate each others guts!
And why must others earn your gratitude to come to good terms and you don't have to? And why are you always bragging so much???
It's weird..

Pfft. Don't take it all to heart.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Pfft. Don't take it all to heart.

Oh.. But uhhm.. Who do you think would win? Anakin and Vader or Dooku?

I really can't picture Dooku defeating Anakin and Vader both.

Originally posted by overlord
Oh.. But uhhm.. Who do you think would win? Anakin and Vader or Dooku?

I really can't picture Dooku defeating Anakin and Vader both.

Why not? He was more powerful then the perfect team (Obi and Anakin). Anakin and Vader would not be the perfect team. They would get in each others way more then they would work together... Dooku is more powerful then either one of them alone he could take them both out.

Doesn't matter if you can picture it or not; Dooku has shown the ability to easily handle ROTS Obi-Wan and Anakin. OT Vader or even PT Vader isn't much more powerful than Anakin as of the beginning of ROTS. (In regards to the PT version, virtually no difference) He'll fight smart and come out on top. Period.

Hmm.. I don't think so. I thought it was weird that Obi was so easily dispatched but I do think that we can't place Dooku in the Vader position in the OT even if he would live to be a hundred and 40. Don't get me wrong, I like Dooku, but to say that he is ultimate warrior.. No sir, I don't like that idea.

Dooku is no Vader... He could never have done what Vader did... But trust me he is more powerful then Vader.

If the plan was to let Anakin win and Dooku was in total control of the fight and if Dooku was heavily concentrating on the battle and perfectly defending then why was Anakin able to cut off Dooku's hands, it must mean something, Anakin knew what he was doing.
There is something wrong with Dooku, I don't think he had the upper hand in the fight.

Originally posted by Fishy
Dooku is no Vader... He could never have done what Vader did... But trust me he is more powerful then Vader.

You probably mean more skilled than vader?

Overlord, the guy who wrote the ROTS book would agree with you, but the movie doesn't.

Just because Anakin was clever and won that time doesn't mean he'd win in every fight. Especially if the fight he won in was pretty well rigged. Dooku gave ground before Anakin, taunted him to use the dark side, battered Obi-Wan to encourage hate and never once used the Force to manhandle SKywalker. It's obvious that Dooku was going easy on the boy, period.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Just because Anakin was clever and won that time doesn't mean he'd win in every fight. Especially if the fight he won in was pretty well rigged. Dooku gave ground before Anakin, taunted him to use the dark side, battered Obi-Wan to encourage hate and never once used the Force to manhandle SKywalker. It's obvious that Dooku was going easy on the boy, period.

According to the book your wrong, according to the movie its up in the air.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
According to the book your wrong, according to the movie its up in the air.

1- The book contradicts things that can be infered from the movie. Makes it wrong.

2- By your perception. If I was to "think outside of the box" like GL has stressed before in his interviews, I might be inclined to think that the fight was thrown, as was Vader's in ROTJ which mirrors that fight a lot.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
"wtf, mate? what happened to the plan?" "mate" why do you say mate on a forum??? whatever i think anakin is good enough to take dooks alone and with vader they would do it much faster

Just because Dooku was so smart to taunt and stuff doesn't mean he actually was stronger, Anakin's form V fighting style is supposedly unbeatable when perfectly mastered, well whatever happened in the movie, Anakin won fair and square because if Dooku really had the upper hand and was able to play with them he wouldn't be caught by surprise, Anakin was just better than him, and with Vader who really perfected the form V, they would kill off Dooku, period!

Anakin his style is supposed to be unbeatable?? Where the hell did you get that from? There is only one form thats supposed to be unbeatable, and Obi Wan practiced that.

Anakins form V was supposedly undefeatable when mastered just like Obi Wans form III.

But you agree with the rest of my previous message, right?

No, because what your saying about his form is bullshit. Dooku was taunting him and he was playing with him. He underestimated Anakin there and then and lost more then he wanted too probably, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't trying tow in.

And honestly how come Vader perfected form V and Anakin did not, the difference between the two is just days?

Trust me Fishy.. Anakin and Vader combined would finish Dooku, maybe Dooku is able to defeat Anakin although he doesn't really show it in the RotS. Dooku can not defeat them both, we don't even have a clear impression of Vaders skills.

Sure we do, we saw a huge fight between him and Obi Wan didn't we?

And have you even read the points about Dooku losing from Anakin and how it was fake? Also Vader and Anakin will work together like shit and pizza... Very badly.

Sure Dooku would just let Anakin take off his hands, if he really was in control of the fight that would have never happened, it's not like he just lowered don't his concentration on the fight.

As for the new Vader, I think the dark side really enhanced Dooku's fighting abilities and with Vader it did too, I suspect form V really fitting for the dark side as it is based on strength and the dark side helping in it just like what happened to Obi in TPM and Mace uses it too.
So I think Vader was incredibly strong by combining form V with the new found dark side powers.