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These vs threads are fun...

anyways, both are in their twenties, both were knighted after their respective movies, and both tapped into the darkside during their lightsaber duels. So who wins?

My vote goes for Obi-Wan, gotta go with the guy with more experience and training here.

Oh yeah, and I used the search button, and nothing came up, so don't trample over me if this has been done before.

Obi-Wan easily takes this. By ROTJ, Luke's movements were still clumsy and unproffesional, and before you attack me with all this "But the choreographies sucked blah blah blah..." think of it this way. Luke by ROTJ has had a week of training and only like what two years of experience? So it would be quite normal if someone like him would swing his lightsaber the way he did. I really don't think the choreographies have anything to do with it. Obi-Wan showed some awesome saber skills against Maul, who was a much better swordsman that Vader, and as you have mentioned, he was more experienced and recieved much more training. Luke's all about raw power (which is useless if you can't even control it properly), that's pretty much it.

I voted Luke! Muhahahaha!! I will always chose the OT over the PT!
Cuz you know choreagraphy sucked and Luke is uber talented, haha!

lol, ass...

im gonna have to give it to obi won this time. He has more training and experience and is definetly more skilled.

Originally posted by Vaapad_Master
lol, ass...

surprise WHAT!!! Thou art reported to my mom now! Muhahaha!!!

dude, chill, I was only joking you're cool

mmh.. okay then.

Originally posted by Vaapad_Master
dude, chill, I was only joking you're cool

I disagree. JK.


Obi-wan would take Luke probably. I'd give Luke a fair chance though.

Of course Luke has a chance, but I give Obi-Wan the definite edge, for the reasons I have mentioned above.

But which people will argue against, citing eighties' choreography and everything else in the world just to get around admitting that Luke is inferior.

DABBLEJUH TIIIIHH EFFF ?!

Luke would kill Obi-1 really Im not joking. Luke only s33ms to be weak bcuz of 80s choreography and he had lung cancer in ROTJ. So he wasnt swinging his blade he was only coughing !!!1111oneoneeleven

Serious:
Obi-Wan would pretty much school Luke. He has 2 decades more experience handling a lightsaber. He has more fighting experience (I guess) at least he had much more practice with a lightsaber and - I guess - many hours of lightsaber-vs-lightsaber training against other Jedi. So he has the edge on Luke when it comes to fighting experience and handling a lightsaber.

And Luke was swinging his lightsaber deadly enough to kill "normal" people but he overwhelmed Vader with sheer power (powered by the dark side) and he only managed that because Vader couldn't do the movements Obi-Wan could use in the same situation.

So Obi wins that fight...

dude luke can can win because he will whine so much that Obi will kill himself after 20 hours of it

Originally posted by Darth Avis
dude luke can can win because he will whine so much that Obi will kill himself after 20 hours of it

hours ? Seconds !

Yoda: "A lot of your fathers whine in you, I sense !"

lol yea Luke wins thats the thread

lmao, yeah, that's one way luke can win the fight.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
DABBLEJUH TIIIIHH EFFF ?!

Luke would kill Obi-1 really Im not joking. Luke only s33ms to be weak bcuz of 80s choreography and he had lung cancer in ROTJ. So he wasnt swinging his blade he was only coughing !!!1111oneoneeleven


Damn.. I hate it when people get funnier than me.. wallbash

Luke wins by default because Obi-Wan would piss his pants laughing to his death while watching Luke swing his lightsaber like a blindfolded kid with a baseball bat.

But seriously, Obi-Wan would totally kick Luke's ass.

LOl yeah, like in ROTJ when he was showing poor display on how to use a lightsaber. The only thing that impressed me was when he broke the saber lock with vader in like 4 seconds.

Obi-Wan would slaughter Luke.

Luke would get slaughtered so bad that his lightsaber would burn out before he could rase it to fight

Will the three people who voted for Luke please stand up?

Harry potter wins.

Yay!! I voted Luke although I can't even remember doing that.
And although padawan Obi would completely annihilate every jedi/sith he meets I'm betting my money on Luke!

Originally posted by overlord
Yay!! I voted Luke although I can't even remember doing that.
And although padawan Obi would completely annihilate every jedi/sith he meets I'm betting my money on Luke!

What the hell? That comment is incredibly stupid.

Obi Wan would far from beat every Sith he meets. He would lose from pretty much all of them at that time...

But how the hell Luke would beat him? I just don't know, where are you getting this from? Please explain.

jawdrop Is it stupid??? Darth Overlord: nooooooooooooooooooo!!!










(I didn't intend on discussing my opinion, I'd rather not take on 12 people at the same time, that's why I didn't have a reason but at least I stood up like asked)

Then just discuss it with me...

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Will the three people who voted for Luke please stand up?

Meh, just Luke fanboys, don't worry about them...

GO Obi-wan!
He's the greatest!
Luke might have a lil chance though....

Luke didn't kill a sith lord when he's still a padawan....
Or, did he become a padawan?

anyway, Obi-wan is the best, eventhough Luke is cute though!!

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Harry potter wins.

cool insight, though no connection to the title....
Gryffindor wins lol!

And Vader would be defeated by a padawan too wouldn't he?
Next thread: some kid from the jedi temple versus Darth Vader (RofJ)!
Yippie!! youpi

Originally posted by overlord
And Vader would be defeated by a padawan too wouldn't he?
Next thread: some kid from the jedi temple versus Darth Vader (RofJ)!
Yippie!! youpi

If its his son he would probably lose...

i voted luke just now, the fact that they are giving into tyhe dark side really gives luke 1 up on obi, luke keeps all his hate bottled up unlike obi who just kinda lets it go. plus i like the scene where luke gives his pops a beat down, it really inspires you to stand up to your parent of course the last time i did that the force wasn't with me...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
i voted luke just now, the fact that they are giving into tyhe dark side really gives luke 1 up on obi, luke keeps all his hate bottled up unlike obi who just kinda lets it go. plus i like the scene where luke gives his pops a beat down, it really inspires you to stand up to your parent of course the last time i did that the force wasn't with me...

So you want Luke to win but have no good reason for it at all? Obi Wan is a controlled fighter and when he uses his anger he knows how to use it. Luke does not and he just swings, besides both of the fighters have no reason to get angry.

Originally posted by Fishy
So you want Luke to win but have no good reason for it at all? Obi Wan is a controlled fighter and when he uses his anger he knows how to use it. Luke does not and he just swings, besides both of the fighters have no reason to get angry.

yeah, i guess but lukes got a robo hand, thats pretty dope.
i think if luke went into his rage/bitchy/pms mode then he could beat obi wan.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
yeah, i guess but lukes got a robo hand, thats pretty dope.
i think if luke went into his rage/bitchy/pms mode then he could beat obi wan.

No he couldn't.. He would still get owned a quick stab from Obi and he's dead.

meh, im gonna keep thinking luke, he learned so much in a short time and if he were to give into his hate he would kick some major butt, sorry

Originally posted by jollyjim311
meh, im gonna keep thinking luke, he learned so much in a short time and if he were to give into his hate he would kick some major butt, sorry

Evidence?

Have you seen him kick butt, has he done anything to convince you he could beat somebody that knows how to wield a lightsaber. Even if you think he beat ROTJ Vader, then just look at how he did it. Vader backed up and tripped or something Luke just cut of his arm after that... Which is really strange to say the least but even if it happened. Why would Obi Wan trip.

the beat down of lukes saber, if he wants to block it, theres alot of force(no pun intended) behind that swing.

i guess we can just agree to disagree.

Obi-Wan was blocking swift blows from Maul. Luke's blows were all hard, slow, and clumsy. Obi-Wan could just swiftly jump out of the way and slice Luke in half before Luke can recover his balance, since it takes Luke so long to recover from his wide-spanned and full-lengthed swings.

i figured someone would say that and all i can say is i disagree, oh well

suit yourself...

im definatley going with luke he may have not had as much training but hes just overall better..... i think luke would win but im voting for obiwan...... mark hamill sucks

WTF... Make up your mind.

And use better logic next them, because if thats the logic you are going to use you might as well just leave right now. Think before you vote and make an argument especially for the underdog.

You don't like the actor, ergo despite your opinion that Luke is better, you voted for Obi-Wan? WTF?!

Mhuahaha! Everybody wants to believe so badly that Obi Wan is an uber warrior, if Obi is so much better than Luke then padawan Obi can defeat darth vader too! Wich leads me to think that everybody is deluded!
Wow.. I will go against everybody! But hey, it's just the internet.

Originally posted by overlord
Mhuahaha! Everybody wants to believe so badly that Obi Wan is an uber warrior, if Obi is so much better than Luke then padawan Obi can defeat darth vader too! Wich leads me to think that everybody is deluded!
Wow.. I will go against everybody! But hey, it's just the internet.

If Padawan Obi was Anakin his son then yes he could have and would have... Vader was in not able willing or allowed to fight his son to the fullest. And he sure as hell didn't.

Maybe that's right.. Though I don't know if it's true.. The first movies were done very differently anyway, in the prequel they really began to make up fighting styles! So maybe the excuse that Vader didn't fight at his fullest is just to cover errors in the stories like Leia's force connection to her mother!
Anyway, I believe that in the original concept Luke became a real jedi knight.

I think it's pretty far fetched too that Vader was able to lose if he wasn't fighting at his fullest. C'mon, just because your holding back doesn't mean you suddenly can get defeated. Why would you let it get so far that you would actually lose when your holding back most of the fight, that's just stupid.

Originally posted by overlord
I think it's pretty far fetched too that Vader was able to lose if he wasn't fighting at his fullest. C'mon, just because your holding back doesn't mean you suddenly can get defeated. Why would you let it get so far that you would actually lose when your holding back most of the fight, that's just stupid.

Vader in ANH had tremendous physical strength. In ROTJ he got beat back by a mere Padawan swinging with a lightsaber. A lightsaber that he could have easily blocked or if he wanted too he could have easily stabbed Luke. He didn't.

But for some reason he did fall down, he tripped.. And Luke cut of his hand, then Luke threw away his lightsaber and as soon as he said that the Emperor had failed Vader got back up. Is it just me or does seem strange? It just doesn't make sense. It seems obvious to me that Vader was either told to lose and did, or was just clearly losing his mind in that fight and didn't know what to do anymore. To confused.

I would expect Vader heavily concentrated on defending when holding himself back still he managed to make some stupid mistake.. It's a little bit weird, but then again there are a lot of people who think episode 6 was stupid.

I just think that Luke was supposed to be pretty good from the original intention of Lucas' story. But I rather not discuss it because it's just too much of an opinion to me.

ok let me rephrase
ANH obi-wan could not beat vader and ANH obi-wan is more poweful than TPM obi-wan and if he could not beat vader and luke could that would mean luke is more powerful than ANH obi-wan like i said before is more powerful than TPM obi-wan... but obi-wan may have "let go" but would have eventually lost anyway....
besides in 1999 there was better technology than in the 80s so those swift moves done by obi-wan you would also see done by luke...

and on top of luke being powerful he used the darkside in ROTJ and we all know the darkside makes you stronger

The Dark Side is not stronger then the light side, did you not listen to Yoda. Besides Obi Wan used his anger in TPM too...

Not to much that Luke would have no reason to be angry in this fight.

On all that other crap you posted, those are all assumptions.

not much luke had to be angry about?

It does make some sense.. Luke and Vader were incredibly force sensative, maybe their anger takes them to a far greater level of power, well just speculation here but I thought I'd throw something in again.

No evidence for that at all. Especially not when you look at Luke.

Yeah, right.. Muhahahaha!!

They are great with the force. Sorry.

well vader had the edge in ROTJ when him and luke were fighting and when vader said if you wont join us maybe she will
that got luke pissed off so he embraced the darkside then luke won so there is evidence that the darkside will make someone stronger
i never said it was stronger than the lights side i just said if you use the darkside it will make you stronger that may not sound right but i guess i cant word what i want to say

Originally posted by mace=badass
well vader had the edge in ROTJ when him and luke were fighting and when vader said if you wont join us maybe she will
that got luke pissed off so he embraced the darkside then luke won so there is evidence that the darkside will make someone stronger
i never said it was stronger than the lights side i just said if you use the darkside it will make you stronger that may not sound right but i guess i cant word what i want to say

agreed

Nah.

You mean to tell me that Luke, the barely trained jedi overcame a cyborg monstrosity capable of great strength by...

Getting mad and swinging his saber around wildly?

And this translates into ROTJ Luke > TPM Obi-Wan?

Obi-Wan got pissed and beat a Sith lord who was -much- faster and more capable than OT Vader, matching him blow for blow (Even a blow behind his head) , cutting the guy's lightsaber in half and putting him on his ass. Obi-Wan pissed F*cked people's days up!

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Nah.

You mean to tell me that Luke, the barely trained jedi overcame a cyborg monstrosity capable of great strength by...

Getting mad and swinging his saber around wildly?

...

do you have eyes?

watch the movie, geez

Originally posted by jollyjim311
do you have eyes?

watch the movie, geez

Yes, I do have eyes, thank you. And a brain, too. Fancy that. Obviously you didn't realize just how contrived the battle seemed. You think "omfg luke won therefore luke is better than vader".

If this is how you think, then Obi-Wan must be better than Maul as of TPM, Anakin and Grievious as of ROTS. Hell, Sidious must be better than everyone except for Mace, and Mace must be weaker than Anakin therefore Obi-Wan who is better than Anakin must be better than Mace who is better than Sidious.

Seriously, don't debate like that. I did watch the movies. Both of them, more times than I'd care to count. And TPM Obi-Wan shows MUCH more skill, period. Luke won the battle, but Vader sure as hell took a dive. I just love how Luke fans try so damn hard to cling to the idea that ROTJ Luke is a reasonable opponent for ANY PT jedi despite being supposively said to be only half-trained for a jedi.

Seriously, do -you- have eyes?

Watch the OT again. Luke doesn't fight that slow. Not as fast as Obi-wan or Maul by anymeans, but he isn't some slow lumbering idiot. Well, maybe a idiot, but he isn't that slow really.

Also(I'll try to get some sources soon) that when Luke went daark, he defeated Vader fairly. Vader is quoted to have been 80% as powerful as Vader. This doesn't necessarily mean Luke was more powerful, just that he was able to defeat someone of that level of strength. If he was horribly outmatched, then he would have lost.

So, I think Luke would win.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Yes, I do have eyes, thank you. And a brain, too. Fancy that. Obviously you didn't realize just how contrived the battle seemed. You think "omfg luke won therefore luke is better than vader".

If this is how you think, then Obi-Wan must be better than Maul as of TPM, Anakin and Grievious as of ROTS. Hell, Sidious must be better than everyone except for Mace, and Mace must be weaker than Anakin therefore Obi-Wan who is better than Anakin must be better than Mace who is better than Sidious.

Seriously, don't debate like that. I did watch the movies. Both of them, more times than I'd care to count. And TPM Obi-Wan shows MUCH more skill, period. Luke won the battle, but Vader sure as hell took a dive. I just love how Luke fans try so damn hard to cling to the idea that ROTJ Luke is a reasonable opponent for ANY PT jedi despite being supposively said to be only half-trained for a jedi.

Seriously, do -you- have eyes?


i hate it when people say this person beats this person so he could win, so we do agree on something. Luke is very powerful when he gives into the darkside, even more powerful than Obi.

P.S. I have beautiful eyes.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Watch the OT again. Luke doesn't fight that slow. Not as fast as Obi-wan or Maul by anymeans, but he isn't some slow lumbering idiot. Well, maybe a idiot, but he isn't that slow really.

Also(I'll try to get some sources soon) that when Luke went daark, he defeated Vader fairly. Vader is quoted to have been 80% as powerful as Vader. This doesn't necessarily mean Luke was more powerful, just that he was able to defeat someone of that level of strength. If he was horribly outmatched, then he would have lost.

So, I think Luke would win.

You always try to debate this when you have more than two people on your side, Glentract. Any other time and you remain mute. Why again is that?

btw, don't tell me to watch the OT again. I've most likely watched it more than you have, or perhaps even anyone in this forum. Luke -does- fight that slow in comparison to TPM Obi-Wan. He also shows less swordsmanship. Since you don't know the first thing about swordfighting, why should I listen to your interpretation of something I've seen dozens upon dozens of times?

And if that was a fair fight, GL sure has a shitty way of showing it. Yes, Vader is quoted as being 80% of Sidious in FORCE POTENTIAL AND MASTERY after Mustafar. I'm amazed at how often that quote is twisted to meet everyone's means. ONe minute it says ROTJ Luke absolutely MUST be better than 80 % of Sidious if he beat Vader... absolutely, no exceptions. Another minute it says that Vader is somehow naturally twice as powerful as Sidious before Mustafar, etc. etc. Ridiculous.

So let me break down the argument for the Luke-sympathezers:

Luke will beat TPM Obi-Wan who is has:

- Survived point blank shots from battle droids at minimal ranges.
- Fought and studied under a proficient jedi master for most of his life.
- Successfully outduelled a Sith lord.
- Has shown far more mastery of the Force and capability, along with lightning quick saber skills.

Because he:

- Beat Vader, his father who died to save him shortly afterwards, with what had to be the worst swordfighting in the history of the series and many others.
- Got his ass singed fighting the caught off guard gun crew of Jabba's sailbarge.
- Passed out after doing some speederbike racing on Endor and reflecting a few shots from an Imperial speederbike.
- Is apparently in GL's words, a "half-trained" jedi. Then in another breathe (depending on the person arguing it) he's suddenly a jedi knight or the equivalent as of ROTJ, also by GL's word.
- wasn't smart or quick enough to avoid falling down a pit at Jabba's palace, and had to use a rock to hit a switch to kill the Rancor. (When would Obi-Wan ever get that stupid?)
- Has NEVER shown even halfway decent lightsaber fighting skill. I'm sure if he had, I'd have Nai and Illustrious and Fishy and Darkstar in here berating me for being way off base. But I don't see that, do you?

IN short, Luke has no case. He loses. Admit it, and move on.

"point blank shots.. at minimal ranges"

now i know what im debating

Originally posted by jollyjim311
"point blank shots.. at minimal ranges"

now i know what im debating

Cute. Yes, that was a bit clumsy. Considering I'm on the phone and booking seats at the same time, please.

Although everybody hates it when someone points out the choreagraphy thing, I think that if the OT was made these days the fights would be much faster. So judging on speed of the fights should be discarded.
But I do think that when Luke gives in to his anger he is far more dangerous than padawan Obi as Luke is supposedly very strong with the force. Although I don't know how to explain that anger thing it did allow padawan Obi to defeat and fight great against Maul who has his own alternation of Juyo. It's a shame though that the fighting style thing wasn't invented yet when the OT was created, so maybe there is just no telling. We do know that Ataru isn't perfect and Obi Wan hadn't mastered that form either.
But whatever, I think Luke would defeat padawan Obi Wan..

Originally posted by overlord
Although everybody hates it when someone points out the choreagraphy thing, I think that if the OT was made these days the fights would be much faster. So judging on speed of the fights should be discarded.
But I do think that when Luke gives in to his anger he is far more dangerous than padawan Obi as Luke is supposedly very strong with the force. Although I don't know how to explain that anger thing it did allow padawan Obi to defeat and fight great against Maul who has his own alternation of Juyo. It's a shame though that the fighting style thing wasn't invented yet when the OT was created, so maybe there is just no telling. We do know that Ataru isn't perfect and Obi Wan hadn't mastered that form either.
But whatever, I think Luke would defeat padawan Obi Wan..

First, problem with throwing out the battle sequences based on choreography limitations is you invalidate the entire OT. Why? Well, you're basically telling me that I can't rely on the only canon material for the OT and instead I must go with your speculation and assumptions. This is nonsense. The OT exists. Until Gl comes out and overturns it, it is canon. If he seeks to redo those scenes in the future, then we will have another source to draw from. But for now, the movie and Luke's ineptness stand.

Second, there is absolutely NO proof or evidence that an angered Luke is stronger than an angered Obi-Wan. If anything, the level of asswhupping that Obi-Wan gave in under a minute outshines Luke's by far, and this is venturing off into ridiculousland anyways. Who's to say either of them will be angry? They might both be cool and fatalistic about it.

Third, Obi-Wan was a pratitioner of Ataru for quite some time. He was 25 as of TPM, and we know that younglings finish Shii-Cho and move on to their chosen form. Even if Obi-Wan had two years of Shii-Cho (Which I believe is the minimum) and five years of Ataru, this is more than Luke's ~3 years of Shien/Djem SO praticising. Actually, I'd argue that Luke really doesn't adhere to Form V since he wasn't aware of its existance and Obi-Wan nor Yoda ever showed him any concepts from the form.

And tack on that Luke doesn't even know Shii-Cho. His swordfighting training is MINIMAL.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Luke will beat TPM Obi-Wan who is has:

- Survived point blank shots from battle droids at minimal ranges.
- Fought and studied under a proficient jedi master for most of his life.
- Successfully outduelled a Sith lord.
- Has shown far more mastery of the Force and capability, along with lightning quick saber skills.

Actually Janus, I just didn't feel like getting into this debate again. I see I need to though.

I'm just going to address these points for the moment.

What was the largest number of droids he ever fought at one time? There were probably around 50 Sail Guards. Luke had a little help, but not a lot. Han and Chewie were trying to save Lando and Leia didn't even have a gun. I don't think there is anyone else fighting on the Rebel side, if there was, please correct me. Luke also took out Black Sun headquarters. he had help, but it like three other people; Luke did a lot of the work there.


Obi-wan was 26 in TPM I believe and had been studying under Qui-gon for thirteen years. A far greater amount of training time than Luke had, but the OT Jedi taught very slowly. This was to reduce the chance of a student falling to the darkside. It seems to work too. They had some 10 or 20 students fall to the darkside out of 10000 compared to Luke's 5 or so out of a hundred. This is because they gained power far more quickly that PT Jedi. The PT Jedi were held back, but it was for their own good.

Look at Corran Horn for example. He got either four or six weeks of training at Luke's praxeum before he left. Half of that time, Luke was unconscious. thats two to three weeks of actual training, but he was able to either defeat or stand against a Jensaari, I'll check which if you want me to. He also took out an Imperial Base. Corran was a Corsec officer before his Jedi training, but can you really say a Cop would stand a chance against dozens of soliders?

Luke had about a week under Obi-wan and about a week under Yoda. He also studied from the teachings Obi-wan left for him on Tatooine for some time. I'm not sure how long, but it was probably at least a month. We've seen what an unrestricted Jedi can learn in two or three weeks, and Luke had more time than that along with a higher natural potential.

Maul also had more training than Obi-wan. Qui-gon had more training that Maul. Sidious probably had more training than Mace. Drallig had more training than Vader. Training time isn't a good point, when added to the fact that the PT Jedi restricted their students to keep them from falling to the darkside.

Luke also wasn't restricted by Yoda and Obi-wan. They were training him to be a weapon to defeat Vader and Sidious. This can be seen by the fact that Luke force choked two people in ROTJ.


Obi-wan outdueled a Sith Lord? I seem to remember him doing well, but still being force pushed into a big hole in the ground. That doesn't seem like outdueling to me.

Even IF Obi-wan outdueled him, Luke took out a Sith Lord too. ROTJ was his third fight against Vader. The first one, Obi-wan took control of Luke's body and was able to fight Vader off. Luke also was holding a Kiaburr crystal. The Kyber crystal is a creation of SS, but the Kiaburr crystal was invented some twenty years ago by the author of Spinter of the Minds Eye. There is no way Luke a few months after ANH could take anyone of any real caliber. ESB, same thing. Vader toyed with him, then got pissed and led him to the garage, belt in hand. Vader pwned Luke in ESB, AFTER Luke had done some okay fighting. I'm not saying ESB Luke would stand a chance against Obi-wan, just that while Vader was toying with him, he did do okay. Remember, not good, but okay.


What is this great mastery of the force that Obi-wan has? He force pushed some droids, jumped real high, ran real fast, called a lightsaber to him, predicted the movements of an opponent in a lightsaber fight.... anything else?

Luke didn't fight any droids, so he couldn't have done that, but he didn't force push living opponents either. He did lift C3PO up. It would be much easier to do; he wasn't in the middle of a battle. He did choke two Gamorreans with the force though.

Obi-wan jumped from one walkway to another in TPM. How far was that; twenty or thirty feet maybe, its been a while since I've watched TPM. Luke jumped onto that walkway in ROTJ. It wasn't nearly as far, but it still shows that he has the ability to force jump, and it didn't seem to be his upper limit. We can't really tell who has the advantage here, but it's probably Obi-wan.

Running, well, Obi-wan has this. I don't think Luke ever demonstrated this ability.

Calling a lightsaber to him. Telekinesis again. When Obi-wan did it, it was only a few feet away. Same with Luke. Also, one time, when Luke did it in TPM, he had only a week or so with Obi-wan. Calling a lightsaber to one self seems trivial to me, so whatever. It's a tie in either case.

Obi-wan predicted Mauls movements. Luke predicted Vaders. This goes back to defeating a Sith Lord. We can't really tell which one is better, I'd say Luke, you'd say Obi-wan.


Lightsaber skill. Luke was butted heads with Vader, defeating him when he went into a darkside rage. Earlier in the fight, Vader WAS holding back, but Luke was too. He wanted to turn Vader back to the Light. Killing him wouldn't do this. He even threw down his lightsaber when he could have killed Vader.

Don't give that bogus about Vader not trying because he was only using one hand. I read that vader had modified his style to only need one hand because he had enough strength where two hands was unnecessary.


If there is anything you want cleared up, please point it out to me and I will try to explain it, rather than you just stating that it is unresonable.

The whole fighting style thing made the OT look like BS. If Luke had minimal fighting skills he shouldn't be able to ever make Vader even break out a sweat, but I he did.
And by that anger thing I mean fighting with the power of the dark side, I believe Luke must be stronger with the force than Obi Wan as he is a child of Anakin and everybody is always saying that in the movies.
But we must both agree that all these subjects are all a matter of opinion for both of us, and the fact that Luke probably doesn't have a fighting style makes this fight almost impossible to predict.

Overlord, don't blame it on technology. Luke is like that for now. If GL wanted to redo it, he would have by now.

That last thing you said is the most brilliant part of the post, I want even debate the rest.

"I read that vader had modified his style to only need one hand because he had enough strength where two hands was unnecessary."

Thats true, that would mean Vader has some incredible physical strength, still Luke beat him back. You are not going to tell me he had more physical strength then Vader, and you sure as hell can't tell me he did it using the force. I don't know how he did it, but he did beat Vader when even according to your own post he should not have been able to do so.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Overlord, don't blame it on technology. Luke is like that for now. If GL wanted to redo it, he would have by now.

No, I just think that we didn't get the proper impression of Luke.
But it is pretty weird how most people just immediately consider this fight decided. And all the reasons for padawan Obi are also mostly assumption and specualation. But anyway I believe that the real conception of SW is that Vader was the most powerfull warrior ever and that his children were just as great with the force. I admit it's an opinion but all the other opinions contain a lot of assuming too. Maybe there is just no way to decide this battle. Sorry, to say it though, I must go the pub now as it is night in my country now! So good luck to both you and deuce!

Its not night its not even 8 a clock, no time to be in a bar.. Although i'm leaving myself shortly to go to friends but thats not the point..

Anyways no this fight can be decided, what is with people losing always saying lets just agree to disagree. Half of the time they are beaten and nothing stands but their opinion. You have nothing to support Luke and there is far more to support Obi Wan. Its only logical to assume Obi Wan would win.

Drink some for me, you lucky bastard.

It's 2:13 Pm here, and I'm cold sober.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Drink some for me, you lucky bastard.

It's 2:13 Pm here, and I'm cold sober.

Apparantly I did drink one for you, I also think I have a hangover, a very light hangover.... Which sucks because it would be my first hangover sinse... Well ever, and I didn't even drink fast or a lot yesterday.

Yes, Fishy, I left very early on 7:30 to be exact, but I want to forget that night.....

For anybody who cares, I just read that Luke used form V, I reckon he was pretty good with it just like Anakin since he was even able to fight Vader, some padawan would lose his life to Vader immediately.

He became good with form V in 3 weeks? My ass he did, he hardly managed to keep that lightsaber in his hands..

So the movies don't make sense, everybody says that, btw what's your source that he just trained for three weeks?
Hardly was able to keep his lightsaber in his hands? Wow, I don't even like Luke or any jedi but you guys.. ..Just wow.

That hardly able to handle a lightsaber bit was bullshit, for his training time read the thread he hasn't even trained for months. That can hardly make you good with a weapon... What am I saying it doesn't make you good with a weapon when you consider the fact that somebody like Obi Wan trained with that lightsaber his entire live.

There is just no way that somebody that has trained for such a short time can be as powerful as somebody that has trained for years.

The story just doesn't make sense but Luke did become a jedi knight in RotJ, and it shows as he can fight with Vader and I don't think any other mere jedi knight could defeat or already fight Vader, only maybe the top jedi masters from the jedi council would defeat Vader. If Luke was really as weak like you are all implying he would just get dissarmed and turned into Sidious little slave immediately.

No... Disarming him wouldn't turn him to the Dark Side.

And sinse when is Luke a Jedi Knight? He calls himself one but nobody else does not even Yoda. Yoda calls him a Jedi. That could be that Yoda says he just became good enough to be a padawan.

I wouldn't call him a Jedi.. All the things he does are simple and basic and he doesn't do anything really well. We see Obi Wan do more impressive things in the movies. Just watch ROTJ and then TPM watch who has a harder time fighting. Obi Wan is faster with a lightsaber then Luke is and Obi Wan is far more precise.

I'm not saying dissarming him would mean he turns to the dark side.
So you think Luke is incredibly weak? Fine, your opinion.. Still not a fact, you probably assume Luke constantly was lucky or something.

Oh, yeah, don't judge on speed of battles, because they couldn't portray everything in those times, otherwise we would have had Coruscant in RotJ. Form V is based solely on strength anyway, it doesn't mean they have to be very fast. It's not Ataru.

Originally posted by overlord
I'm not saying dissarming him would mean he turns to the dark side.
So you think Luke is incredibly weak? Fine, your opinion.. Still not a fact, you probably assume Luke constantly was lucky or something.

Oh, yeah, don't judge on speed of battles, because they couldn't portray everything in those times, otherwise we would have had Coruscant in RotJ. Form V is based solely on strength anyway, it doesn't mean they have to be very fast. It's not Ataru.

Yeah Luke is weak for a Jedi. He isn't weak he learns incredibly fast but he's not at the level of a Jedi Knight, he just can't beat with such short training time. And no where is he portrayed as such if you ask me, only when fighting Vader but in all other things he still remains clumsy. Not fully knowing what he's doing. He's damn good for the little training he had. But honestly do you think Obi Wan would have had any trouble killing those people on Jabba's yacht? Do you think that Obi Wan would have struggled even for a second with those speeders? Do you think he would have let Han and Chewie take down those stormtroopers. Of course not he would have used the force and he would have done so faster and better.

Obi Wan his lightsaber is his live, Luke still carries around a blaster.

I'm just saying that if Luke could fight a force like Vader, defend against Vaders techniques and even grab the chance of defeating Vader no matter how lucky then Luke should be able to fight against Obi Wan who still doesn't practice form III.
And I really don't think we should just base our opinions on time of training but instead on their achievements and the impression of power they have although it is really impossible to say for sure who is best with the force for instance.

Uh, first off it says that Luke will become a Jedi once he faces Vader. This is most likely meant to mean that by confronting his father (and by redeeming himself and his father) he would have what it takes to become a jedi. It does not say that Luke gains jedi knight status and knows enough to get by and be godly good and he can pwn anything.

Second, the three week training is an odd figure. But to be fair, Luke had at most three days training with Yoda and Obi-Wan (evidenced by the apparent lack of time passage in the movies and the official source of the time of travel from the systems) and assuming he did get his hands on stuff at Obi-Wan's house..

Funny part being, in the movies Obi-Wan showed absolutely no evidence of salvaging anything from the Jedi temple and could not likely go back, and most certainly he had nothing on him when he arrived on Tattooine at the end of ROTS.

So where exactly does this immense knowledge from Obi-Wan's pad come from exactly? Tusken jedi? Jawa sith? It doesn't add up.

The Sith Jawa, I believe.

Read Shdows of the Empire. It talks about it in there.

If that's the case, Luke should have been powerful enough to blow up the Death Star with a thought.

"Yaddle: Luke, once you face the incredible padawan sith jawa meister then you will be a jedi. Yes, nobody taught you how to fight, but then again Yoda didn't teach you how to force choke and mind trick, still you can hardly carry a lightsabers, these are the ultra intelligent confusing golden rules of this thread."

Hmm.. Maybe this whole thread makes no sense at all?

Choking is a basic move apaprantly, nobody taught Anakin how to do it and he just did it. So it obviously isn't all that hard to do. If somebody can do it without even training or knowing about it.

I guess so.. Maybe we just don't know anything about this training or it just doesn't make sense because Luke was able to defend and attack Vader just as much as Vader to him while he had only three weeks of training, Luke could even catch Vader off guard while fighting him! So that does mean that Luke is not some stupid padawan like warrior!

Or it means that Vader is overconfident.. Just look at the fights, its about equal even in ESB but then Vader gets pissed and the fight is over he wins. He didn't get pissed in ROTJ he didn't need a time to take control and win. He didn't even get a chance for it and he sure as hell didn't take it.

So you mean Luke beat Vader fair and square in RotJ???

No... Because Vader didn't want to win he didn't want to fight seriously so he didn't and thats why Luke won... Well sort off won, I'm pretty sure Vader could have taken over at any point in the fight if he would have wanted too.

You say darth Vader didn't want to win? So what was he supposed to do then? Fight until forever? Or let his son kill him?

Obi wins

Why the hell do you keep bringing these up?

I was about to say that.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Why the hell do you keep bringing these up?

Could it be the fact that i was going to make a thread like this, but if i did, then it would be closed and i would be told that this was already made? but if i HAD resurrected this thread, then you and others would be like "why did you dig this up?" know what im saying?

No, not really.

Or there's the fact that this thread was already done to the death, and resurrecting it just to state your opinion is pretty much useless, since no one cares what your opinion is unless you intend to debate it.

Council, I'll debate you over it out of my sheer boredom, but normally it would be dumb to bring this thread from the dead. Give me some reasons for your opinion.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
No, not really.

Oh

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Or there's the fact that this thread was already done to the death, and resurrecting it just to state your opinion is pretty much useless, since no one cares what your opinion is unless you intend to debate it.

Yeah, I'm too lazy