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So, lets debate, did Palpatine throw the fight, let Mace win, or did Mace really, truely win?

Sidious let Mace win the battle, so Anakin would think he was a traitor, so he would kill Mace, and become Palpatine's apprentice.

Sidious let Mace win. Think about it. The battle starts. While fending off Mace Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters like they're nothing. While fending off Mace. That right there should tell you Mace would be no problem for him if he was planning on killing him straight up. His moves are a lot choppier than they are in the Yoda duel which also indicates he's not trying. Remember what Qui-Gon said, "Nothing happens by accident." so Anakin coming into the room the second after Sidious appears to have lost is not a coincidence, it was careful timing on Sidious's part. Anakin wouldn't turn unless he saved Sidious, which wouldn't heppen unless it seemed Sidious was done for. Sidious made himself look weak and feeble and helpless by taking off his mask and making Anakin think it was the lightning that disfigured his face. Then Anakin turns to the Dark Side and kills Mace. Sidious immediately hits Mace with all he's got and Mace is a goner.

Palpatine doesn't look at all surprised Anakin turned or ruffled about his encounter. When he's pleading for Anakin to help him it's so fake it's funny.

Another point to consider is that even if Anakin hadn't "saved" Sidious he wouldn't have died. he could have stopped the lightsaber with the lightning again or jumped out of the way and then used to the Force to get one of the fallen Jedi's lightsabers and finish Mace off.

One last thing: The databank on starwars.com states than Yoda and Mace are equal in power and Sidious defeated Yoda so he could have defeated Mace.

All proof is for Sidious letting Mace "win" none for Mace winning. IMHO everyone who thinks Mace won is one or more of the following:
A. A Mace fan
B. A Vaapad believer
C. Someone who has read Shatterpoint

I am A and C. When I first saw the movie I knew Sidious could have won but didn't want to believe that he is strong enough to defeat 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time. I also had thought for a long time that Mace is the strongest character in the saga. But people started shoing me evidence that I was wrong and I had nothing to fight back with so I decided I would have to believe that which I didn't want to. So I came to accept that Sidious could have defeated 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time, one of which included Mace Windu.

We have..oh..about 3246524 threads on this already...

Originally posted by Sir Mist
We have..oh..about 3246524 threads on this already...

Sorry. Could you please provide a link for one?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343049&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352936&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348675&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343960&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343267&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336437&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325010&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318462&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302692&highlight=mace
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302383&highlight=mace

Mace won, Palpatine lost.
Palpatine was only pretending to be weak (After he lost) so Anakin would feel sorry for him and let Mace know that he requires a trial. Also, theres the Padme thing. Palpatine knew anakin all to well

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/663/suicide6ke.gif

Originally posted by darthsith19
Sidious let Mace win. Think about it. The battle starts. While fending off Mace Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters like they're nothing. While fending off Mace. That right there should tell you Mace would be no problem for him if he was planning on killing him straight up. His moves are a lot choppier than they are in the Yoda duel which also indicates he's not trying. Remember what Qui-Gon said, "Nothing happens by accident." so Anakin coming into the room the second after Sidious appears to have lost is not a coincidence, it was careful timing on Sidious's part. Anakin wouldn't turn unless he saved Sidious, which wouldn't heppen unless it seemed Sidious was done for. Sidious made himself look weak and feeble and helpless by taking off his mask and making Anakin think it was the lightning that disfigured his face. Then Anakin turns to the Dark Side and kills Mace. Sidious immediately hits Mace with all he's got and Mace is a goner.

Palpatine doesn't look at all surprised Anakin turned or ruffled about his encounter. When he's pleading for Anakin to help him it's so fake it's funny.

Another point to consider is that even if Anakin hadn't "saved" Sidious he wouldn't have died. he could have stopped the lightsaber with the lightning again or jumped out of the way and then used to the Force to get one of the fallen Jedi's lightsabers and finish Mace off.

One last thing: The databank on starwars.com states than Yoda and Mace are equal in power and Sidious defeated Yoda so he could have defeated Mace.

All proof is for Sidious letting Mace "win" none for Mace winning. IMHO everyone who thinks Mace won is one or more of the following:
A. A Mace fan
B. A Vaapad believer
C. Someone who has read Shatterpoint

I am A and C. When I first saw the movie I knew Sidious could have won but didn't want to believe that he is strong enough to defeat 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time. I also had thought for a long time that Mace is the strongest character in the saga. But people started shoing me evidence that I was wrong and I had nothing to fight back with so I decided I would have to believe that which I didn't want to. So I came to accept that Sidious could have defeated 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time, one of which included Mace Windu.

I'm glad to see that at least one person was smart enough to accept the truth.

lol

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I'm glad to see that at least one person was smart enough to accept the truth.

Only you would say that...and this is in the wrong forum.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Sidious let Mace win. Think about it. The battle starts. While fending off Mace Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters like they're nothing. While fending off Mace. That right there should tell you Mace would be no problem for him if he was planning on killing him straight up. His moves are a lot choppier than they are in the Yoda duel which also indicates he's not trying. Remember what Qui-Gon said, "Nothing happens by accident." so Anakin coming into the room the second after Sidious appears to have lost is not a coincidence, it was careful timing on Sidious's part. Anakin wouldn't turn unless he saved Sidious, which wouldn't heppen unless it seemed Sidious was done for. Sidious made himself look weak and feeble and helpless by taking off his mask and making Anakin think it was the lightning that disfigured his face. Then Anakin turns to the Dark Side and kills Mace. Sidious immediately hits Mace with all he's got and Mace is a goner.

Palpatine doesn't look at all surprised Anakin turned or ruffled about his encounter. When he's pleading for Anakin to help him it's so fake it's funny.

Another point to consider is that even if Anakin hadn't "saved" Sidious he wouldn't have died. he could have stopped the lightsaber with the lightning again or jumped out of the way and then used to the Force to get one of the fallen Jedi's lightsabers and finish Mace off.

One last thing: The databank on starwars.com states than Yoda and Mace are equal in power and Sidious defeated Yoda so he could have defeated Mace.

All proof is for Sidious letting Mace "win" none for Mace winning. IMHO everyone who thinks Mace won is one or more of the following:
A. A Mace fan
B. A Vaapad believer
C. Someone who has read Shatterpoint

I am A and C. When I first saw the movie I knew Sidious could have won but didn't want to believe that he is strong enough to defeat 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time. I also had thought for a long time that Mace is the strongest character in the saga. But people started shoing me evidence that I was wrong and I had nothing to fight back with so I decided I would have to believe that which I didn't want to. So I came to accept that Sidious could have defeated 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time, one of which included Mace Windu.

Double Post Sorry...

Ok I happen to be a crap ass debater...but dude...this is a pile of unfounded crap. I swear if only Janus could see this...

Unfounded crap my ass. He's right, in my eyes. Sidious, the ultimate planner to who stood to Yoda (who is better than Mace) would not lose to an inferior.

The only thing I disagree with is the comment about lightning disfigurement: it was the lightning that did it, unless you didn't watch the movie or see it mentioned in the Visual Dictionary.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/663/suicide6ke.gif hey u peoples stop makin dodo shoot himself

I think mace trulywon.

Mace did truly win, I dont see otherwise.

Mace was a alot stronger than the supporting Jedi that died so easily. Palpatine could have won and converted Anakin differently

Mace won until he died, but it is unsolvable Mace clearly won the saber duel and was winning Palp's Force Lightning duel, it was only when the Dumbass showed up that he lost.

He won AND lost, on account of he's dead.

Originally posted by Captain REX
The only thing I disagree with is the comment about lightning disfigurement: it was the lightning that did it, unless you didn't watch the movie or see it mentioned in the Visual Dictionary.
It said in Star Wars Insider than Palpatine's face was always like that and he was using the Force to cloud his appearance.

Thank you. And BTW lots of people have accepted the truth. One of the starwars.com weekly polls was on this question and Mace really won got 52% of the votes, Palpatine was faking it got 48% of the votes so many people do realise the truth.

You'd take Insider magazine over the Official Site and the Visual Dictionary? For shame.

I better make a bunch of accounts at SW.com to change that poll...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Sidious let Mace win. Think about it. The battle starts. While fending off Mace Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters like they're nothing.
While fending off Mace.

He had two of them killed before Mace participated in the battle and then simply used the lack of room to overcome Kit Fisto. When Mace was on his own he was the superior fighter. And you status within the order doesn't say anything about you duelling skills. It's not that "being a Jedi Master" means "having Yoda's skill in lightsaber combat".



This is stupid. If you have any idea about fighting you would know that you can lose a fight on purpose but not like Sidious did it. Here you have a picture by picture analyses of the fight:

- when Sidious starts attacking on the Jedi you can see that Mace is the only one that reacts (pulling his lightsaber up and get away from Sidious) while the other people really get slaughtered without doing anything. Saesee Tiin had the opportunity to simply cut Sidious down while he was killing Agen Kolar - they both did nothing. Kit Fisto only managed to get his saber up before getting killed. That doesn't make Sidious a great duellist it makes THEM weak duellists.

- now he starts attacking Mace and Mace parries Sidious two-handed strikes with the lightsaber in one hand and Sidious never gets close to hitting him. When they lock sabers you can even see that Mace is superior here since Sidious has a hard time to stay alive (look at the expression on his face)

- when watching carefully you can see that Mace had the opportunity to cut Sidious head off just after you can see Anakin entering the Senate building. Sidious has his sword down on his side and Mace is ready to strike but he doesn't do it - he "waits" till Sidious is ready to parry again.

- right after that you can see Sidious giving ground from the middle of the room to the window and he has a hard time parrying Mace's strikes

- right after destroying the window Mace is moving his swords in circles with the LEFT hand (which is not his weaponhand). Sorry - noone would do that in front of an enemy that he consideres dangerous.

- then Sidious tries to attack again and he has to go down on his knees to protect his head from being cut off right away by Windu. I won't even do that while "toying" with an opponent that is MUCH weaker than me because if Mace in this situation would have simply moved his saber backwards this would again have resultet in Sidious literally losing his head.

- and at the end you have Sidious losing his weapon and sorry - that can't be faked even if you a far superior to your opponent you can't make him kick away your weapon. Mace was clearly suprising Sidious here.

So Mace Windu did defeat Sidious in lightsaber combat and anyone that wants to tell me something different is either a Sidious fanboy who can't accept the facts or stupid or has no idea about swordfighting. You can chose your favourite from these three things.



So...this point is debateable. Sidious might really toy with the people there and simply hold back while really being able to blow Mace out of the window. This can be debated but he didn't fake the lightsaber fight because this was not possible.



He couldn't have stopped the saber with the lightning. Mace as a hard time deflecting the lightning while simply holding the saber but I doubt that Sidious would be able stop that strike with a lightning.
Yet...even if he could have done that how should he have jumped ? He was lying on his back and even assuming he would have been able to get away somehow: The next lightsaber was lying in another room and he had to cross a corridor to get there or at least move through his office to force pull a lightsaber. What should have stopped Mace from cutting him down from behind or simply throwing his own saber to kill Sidious ?



The same databank that states that Mace won fair and square against Sidious ? And by the way: The databank only says that Yoda wasn't able to defeat Sidious in the situation at the end of their fight and we all could see that Sidious only was LUCKY in that fight not more skilled than Yoda.



See above...everyone who thinks Sidious let Mace win is:
A. A Sidious fanboy
B. Stupid
C. Someone who doesn't have any idea about swordfighting



So you want to say you most likely fit in my category B or C ? Great. The fact you didn't have the ability to defend your oppinion doesn't mean other people were right. In fact Sidious can't defeat Mace or Yoda in a lightsaber fight that's why he lost against Mace and tried to run away from Yoda....

wow nai you have to be a lawyer. you changed my mind, but isnt shatterpoint the only reason sids lost?

the origional script had it clear that sidious threw the fight.

samuel l. jackson just wanted to look like a badass.

Originally posted by Captain REX
You'd take Insider magazine over the Official Site and the Visual Dictionary? For shame.

Over the visual dictionary? Yes. Over the databank? Not sure.

Exactly my point. He was skilled enough to kill 2 Jedi Masters before Mace could even move.

Doesn't matter, he still beat Kit while fending off Mace.

When it says Mace is on par with Yoda it doesn't say in what category. It could be rank, it could be skill.

No, Saesee Tiin raises his lightsaber to strike Sidious but Sidious kills him before he can finish the swing.

Mace also could have killed Sidious while Sidious was killing Agen and Saesee. Or could he? Apparently not, otherwise he would have.

Duh, Sidious was faking it.

So Mace could have killed Sidious but didn't. Why? And why would Sidious have his saber at his side unless he wasn't really trying?

Or so it seems.

Ah, but Mace does consider Sidious dangerous. "He's too dangerous to be left alive!"

If Mace could have killed Sidious he would have.

Sidious didn't seem surprised. And yes, it was faked. How would it be hard to fake?

I'm neither. I would like nothing better than to say Mace won, fair and square. But I can't because I know it'd be a lie. And Mace is way cooler than Sidious.

LOL, of course it was possible? How was it not possible? Palpatine could just try hard enough to make Mace think he was trying as hard as he could, then let Mace "win" when eh sensed Anakin approaching.

Why not? He knocked Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hand.

No, he would have jumped instead of blocking it.

He is definately stronger than Mace Force-wsie. He could use Force run to run into the next room and then get a lightsaber. easy as pie.

Lucky? No. After knocking Yoda's saber out of his hand he was winning fair and square from that point on. And the databank doesn't say Mace won fair and square. Don;t know what you're talking about. We will get an official answer on the ROTS DVD.


LOL, that's stupid. Sidious sucks, I'm not stupid and what would knwoing about swordfighting have to do with this? I saw the movie.

This is ridiculous. All proof says Sidious was faking it against Mace and he tried to run from Yoda because he had to much at stake to risk a duel, but that doesn't matter because he didn't manage to run away and guess what? He won. If Dooku had tried to run away from Obi-Wan in AOTC would that make Obi-Wan stronger? No, of course not.

niether one won

banana5



I think the real answer is who gives a shit anymore...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Exactly my point. He was skilled enough to kill 2 Jedi Masters before Mace could even move.

Mace did move but you can see that the other people were between him and Sidious at that point. So what should he have done ? Cut through the other Jedi to kill Sidious ?

You can see Agen Kolar getting killed without even moving his sword. Same for Saesee Tiin who could have simply cut Sidious down from behind but did not.



He cut down Kit with a back hand movement WHILE turning towards Mace again. He used the fact that there wasn't much room for movements and the Jedi would have hit each other while trying to land a killing strike on him. I'm not saying he's a bad duellist.



Wrong. Tiin had his lightsaber already up BEFORE Sidious did kill Kolar - btw. how much power do you think you need behind a strike to kill somebody with a weapon that cuts through everything like a knife cuts through butter ?



He couldn't. Agen was in his way and he moved into a defensive stance.



Why should he ?



That was out of a movement. Sidious was turning around before that, Mace had his saber up and Sidious had his saber on his side pointing downwards. Why Mace didn't kill Sidious ? Ever heared something about Jedi philosophy ? He was there to arrest Sidious - not to kill him.



After Sidious unleashed his lightning on Mace. That was a different situation. Mace didn't want to risk Sidious receiving an acquittal by the Senate / the Senate's court. Sidious is dangerous because of his political influence.



He would not - see above. He had Sidious without a weapon and still didn't want to kill Sidious until Sidious had used lightning on him. Otherwise he would have simply killed him after kicking the lightsaber out of his hands.



He WAS suprised. And there is no way to fake that situation. Mace kicked Sidious lightsaber out of his hands. How Sidious should have faked that ? Holding the weapon in a way that Mace could do nothing else than kicking it away ? LOL. As I said: You have NO idea about swordfighting.



It's no lie. Case closed.



You can't fake losing your weapon by letting your opponent kick it out of your hand. He could have dropped it while parrying one of Mace swings (pretending that he didn't have enough physical power to keep it in hand) but not the way you think he have done it. That's simply impossible because he can't know what Mace would do next. He could have losed his hands while "pretending to lose".

And please explain to me why Sidious should have faked the fight ? To get Anakin to the dark side ? Imagine Mace would just have told Anakin to arrest Sidious - Sidious would have lost. Imagine Mace just killing Sidious without talking to him - again he would have lost. See - far too many possibilities. Sidious wouldn't have risked his life by faking that fight.



Yoda dropped his lightsaber to deflect Sidious lightning. Read the damn script if you don't thrust me. And may I remind you that Yoda was just holding the lightsaber in his left hand (which is not compareable to someone swinging it towards you) and Mace is MUCH superior to Yoda in terms of physical strength.



He was on his back. Lying on the ground. How should he have "jumped" ? And where ? Out of the window ? Because the other direction he would have jumped directly into Mace lightsaber.



He has to be FAR more powerful than Mace if he can accelerate his own body more than Mace could accelerate his lightsaber throw. This is again stupid.



LOL. Just LOL. Sidious winning ? Yoda BLASTED him over the edge of the pod and he was LUCKY to have a handle at his side of the pod otherwise he would have fallen down just like Yoda.

And from the Databank:
"Windu had disarmed Sidious and cornered the treacherous Sith Lord into the frame of his expansive office window." Sidious faking ?

"With Anakin Skywalker's help, Sidious was able to defeat Mace, though he was severely scarred by the reflected power of his dark side lightning." Sidious faking when he only was able to defeat Mace with the help of Anakin ?

And here from Palpatines page on the databank:
"Windu overpowered Palpatine the instant Anakin Skywalker came running into the offices."

So please tell me again that Sidious "faked" it - rofl...



You saw the movie ? Obviously you haven't watched it often enough. And knowing about swordfighting would help you interpretaing SWORDFIGHTS...



a) What proof you're talking about ? All I have seen from you are assumptions on the edge of irrealism. All "proof" is on my side (the action in the film, the databank).

b) He run from Yoda because Yoda was superior. Yoda can be seen to be both - superior in force use and lightsaber combat compared to Sidious. And Sidious ran because he hadn't any hope to kill Yoda otherwise he would have done that because he wanted Yoda dead. Your "logic" kills me...

Originally posted by Sir Mist
banana5



I think the real answer is who gives a shit anymore...

yes

Originally posted by Sir Mist
banana5



I think the real answer is who gives a shit anymore...

Agreed. Nai was luring me in until he ended his convincing rant with 'you're either a fanboy, stupid, or know absolutely nothing.' Good try, though.

Mace won but got killed anyway...that should be good enough. He's dead, get over it.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Agreed. Nai was luring me in until he ended his convincing rant with 'you're either a fanboy, stupid, or know absolutely nothing.' Good try, though.

Hey...I said "or you know nothing about swordfighting" - and that's the case with most people actually.

Sidious lost on purpose only because , the Emp's main goal besides to rule the galexy was to get Anakin onto the dark side. Palp spoke to Anakin in his head saying that if he is destroyed then Padme will be lost fore ever. Anakin came stoped MAce from hurting Palp, and then my man Palpatine found his advantege and killed Mace. Also I found on line an interviw with GL about these same questions, GL said that Palp is the strongest character in the whole movie because Palp looks beyond the good and the dark side. He does not depend on power.

palpatine had the advantage when vader arrived, cut off mace's arm, and palps and vader double teamed him so the darkside won that one

Originally posted by slasher0630
Sidious lost on purpose only because , the Emp's main goal besides to rule the galexy was to get Anakin onto the dark side. Palp spoke to Anakin in his head saying that if he is destroyed then Padme will be lost fore ever. Anakin came stoped MAce from hurting Palp, and then my man Palpatine found his advantege and killed Mace. Also I found on line an interviw with GL about these same questions, GL said that Palp is the strongest character in the whole movie because Palp looks beyond the good and the dark side. He does not depend on power. As right as your are, why do Junior members always have such bad grammer?

Yes. They were doomed anyway. Then Sidious would have died and would never have taken over the galaxy.

No, there's a pic that someone (can't remember who) used to post of the duel. Sidious had his saber through Agen and it dhowed that Saesee had moved his lightsaber. Just very slowly.

Hmm, I'll have to watch the duel again. But still, even if he get kit while swinging at Mace is must have taken a little extra time. Just a very small ammount but still enough for Mace to have stabbed him if he were indeed stronger.

I'm pretty sure your wrong. One time I saw a small video of Sidious stabbing Agen and then saesee. It played over and over again and I'm pretty sure Saesee raised his lightsaber, at least a couple inches.

Hmm... Luke didn't cut through Vader's arm in ESB.

Better to kill Sidious and sacrifice Agen in the process than lose all four of those Jedi + a thousand more.

To turn Anakin to the Dark Side.

Yet after he disarmed Sidious he tried to kill him, because he said he was to dangerous. Obviously he realised Sidious was dangerous from their duel and during the duel he must have known Sidious was a threat to him. So betetr to kill Sidious then as opposed to risk his life to capture him.

He never wanted Sidious to go before the Senate because of his political influence. That has nothing to do with the lightning.

He wasn't sure what to do yet.

Like he did.

No, you have no idea about that duel. if what you said about Mace not wanting to kill him is true he knew Mace would disarm him rather than kill him.

LOL, your outnumbered 17 to 5.

Of course it's possible because Sidious did it.

LOL, he has clouded the minds of the entire Jedi order. he could foresee what Mace was going to do.

No, for one thing he foresaw it, for another he is the Senate, remember? he'd have escaped.

No, he could have stopped the saber with Force lightning.

Why when he could have blocked it with his saber? And it's his own fault he wasn't holding it with 2 hands. the script? It says The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber.

How should he have jumped? Same way Anakin did in AOTC to block Dooku's saber. Only Palpatine's alot stronger than Anakin was then. And Mace was swinging straight down. Sidious would have jumped to the side.

No offense, Nai Fohl, but that's the stupidest thing you've ever said. If Macw threw his saber Sidious would have used the Force to either get it or re-direct it and then blast mace with lightning.

No, he blasted Yoda off. But it was fair. No rules against not using railings to your advantage.

Yes, he had isarmed Sidious and cornered him.

The databank has many mistakes.

Exactly. Palpatine let Mace corner him just as Anakin entered. He timed it perfectly.

Sidious faked it.

Swordfighter. Human swordfighters, not Jedi and Sith. You know no more about that kind of dueling then I do. They're not just regular people swordfighting, they're extremely powerful Force-users lightsaber dueling. Big difference.

You know very well what proof. Obviously there is proof if I am winning by 12 votes. If over 77% of the people are on my side.

Yoda is superior? No, you're wrong. If Yoda was superior then why did Sidious win?
Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa.
From the starwars.com databank. If you don't believe that I also have the movie and Star wars Trivial pursuit on my side.

They shoot the moment in which Palp implores Anakin to help him. "At the point when Palp begs for Anakin's help," Jackson points out, "I'm bending those lightning bolts right back at him I mean, that's why he's begging -- because I got him. I'm like, "Yeeeah! Who's your daddy now?!"

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes. They were doomed anyway. Then Sidious would have died and would never have taken over the galaxy.

a) This isn't what he would do - you know that.
b) I already said he moved into an defensive position.



From the situation before Sidious jumped over to the group until he cut down Saesee, Saesee moved his lightsaber about 10 centrimetres up - why ? As I said - you need no power to cut something with a lightsaber, so why even try to make a swing in this situation ?



Again - Sidious was using the lack of space. He moved in between the two Jedi and thereby took them any opportunity to strike him down because they had no space to swing and if they would have had it they would have hit the other.



With "up" I meant he had the lightsaber in his hand and in a position he could have striked Sidious down since no power is needed behind a lightsaber strike. He moved it up a few inches, yes, but that was simply senseless.



Vader was wearing his suit that might have protected him or Luke might not really wanted to cut that arm of - we don't know. Fact is that a lightsaber cuts through everything and can easily cut through bones, metal and stuff like that. Why put strength behind your strike ? Hell...a little burning at his back would have put Sidious out of the fight at least made him slower. Why not do it ?



As I said - Mace wouldn't cut through another Jedi and he was in a defensive position.



Oh yes. Sidious would simply liked to look weaker to turn Anakin to the Dark Side - Anakin who wasn't even in the building at this point not to mention he was not in a position where he could see the expression on Sidious face. Sorry...that IS stupid.



Obviously you didn't watch the movie to often. After Mace disarmed Sidious he again told him that it is over and he's arrested. Doesn't sound to me like he wanted to kill him. If Mace simply wanted to kill Sidious he would have done that before Anakin entered the office and he wouldn't have wasted time by telling Sidious again that he is arrested. So obviously you are wrong here.

The first time Mace wanted to kill Sidious is after Sidious used his lightning.



Read the above and watch the movie again...



See above...



Really...your logic is rediculous. Please stop that. You simply can't forsee what your opponent will do. Mace could have "disarmed" him another way (literally) or simply kill him - Sidious can't know what Mace would do next. It's really as simple as that.



a) The majority isn't always right.
b) Oh...please...what do votes say ? I have seen no one putting any real argument in this thread for Sidious faking it.



Let me remind you of a few things. Sidious foresight isn't that great. May I remind you of ROTJ ? "Your friend will die" / "You will die" - if he's that great in foreseeing things he would have survived ROTJ. He didn't. Sidious is a masterplanner but not a foresight genious.

Then you have again forgotten something. The Jedi planned to take over the Senate. You can see them planning that because they knew that Sidious or somebody near Sidious must be the Sith Lord and they didn't want that person to have control over the Senate.

And what the hell has "clouding peoples mind" to do with "forsight" ? Completely different topics. That's like saying "Hey...Obi-Wan could force push Grievous he MUST be able to use force lightning !"



Proof ? Oh...



Since when is Mace = Yoda ? As I said...the situation was completely different.



a) Anakin stood up before jumping.
b) Mace was swinging the saber from beyond his head right side down towards Sidious. So Sidious could have jumped out of the window (he might have survived that), directly into Mace or into Mace saber. Oh..stop..he couldn't have jumped because he was lying on his back.



Cool. Sidious using force speed and AT THE SAME TIME throw a saber back that was accelerated and moving at him from behind. And you call me stupid ?



Watch the movie again. Sidious gave Yoda all he had. Yoda was looking away and then he looked back and you can see Sidious losing. Than Yoda was thrown back 1 metre while Sidious was thrown back for about 3-4 metres and you still want to tell me, that Sidious blasted Yoda off ? Sorry...that's again rediculous.



But only when it's against your oppinion, right ?



That's the worst interpretation of "being overpowered" I've ever seen.



Again...no proof...



Oh...sure...big difference. You maybe know that lightsaber fighting techniques were designed from swordfighting techniques and you might know that there are things you will never do in melee combat no matter what weapons are used.
And sorry...nobody would move in a position where somebody can cut his head of easily (without any possible defence) because he wants to and nobody can fake losing his weapon by letting the opponent kicking it out of his hand - unless he had told the opponent before the fight to do it. That are elemental rules and it doesn't matter if the opponents are normal swordfighters, Jedi / Sith or grandmas in wheelchairs aimed with canes.



You can see in the movie that Mace won. Even the novel tells you that Mace won. What else do you need. And if the only "proof" you have are the votes of other people - sorry...that's no "proof" at all. I have seen people here trying to tell me that Maul can beat Yoda in a lightsaber fight...so what ?



Because:
a) If Yoda had won the OT would be quite senseless.
b) Sidious was lucky.



a) "The databank has many mistakes." (Oh...seems I'm as smart as you are, huh ?)
b) Who was discussing that Yoda lost ? But Yoda didn't lose because Sidious was superior and this is evrything I said.

Now, like F*CK I'm reading those.

Once Palpatine drew his sword, they all should have tried to kill him no matter what. If you pull a weapon on a cop, they are within their rights to blast you. Mace & the boys came in like cops to arrest Palpatine, there shouldn't have been any talk with Anakin about not taking him out, Mace shoulda done it right there.

I suppose, however, it would be hard NOT to talk to your enemy in Mace's situation!

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I'm glad to see that at least one person was smart enough to accept the truth.

That is not true, its all fiction, not fact.

Sidious lost, simple as that.

Saying that he threw the fight is completly out of character for him; Sidious is a planner, a strategist, like a chess master. Leting Mace win to get Anakin's sympathy is completely against his nature as it leaves everything to chance. What if Anakin had been held up for a few seconds? What if Mace had decided to 'go for it' and killed Sidious without hesitation? Would he really have taken that big of a risk?

"Oh...sure...big difference. You maybe know that lightsaber fighting techniques were designed from swordfighting techniques and you might know that there are things you will never do in melee combat no matter what weapons are used.
And sorry...nobody would move in a position where somebody can cut his head of easily (without any possible defence) because he wants to and nobody can fake losing his weapon by letting the opponent kicking it out of his hand - unless he had told the opponent before the fight to do it. That are elemental rules and it doesn't matter if the opponents are normal swordfighters, Jedi / Sith or grandmas in wheelchairs aimed with canes."

Exactly. Nai Fohl has explained it perfectly.

As for Yoda vs Sidious, again Sidious got his backside kicked and it was only circumstance that allowed him to escape with his life. He didn't win.

who really gives a shit anymore. i mean let people have their own opinions dont try and change their minds its like saying o a religious person theres no such thing as god im not saying my opinion coz people will start quoting my words and shit like that so just chill out

Obviously you dont give a shit, so leave and dont respond. I would rather hear both opinions and compare. (to mine)

Unless GL comes in here to give the answer, this is just gonna go on and on and on and on........................HIGH FIVE!

HIGH FIVE! (clap) YEH!

official site's databannk says nothing of palps faking... it does however say he was disarmed by mace...

true dat. He disarmed sids because mace is the superior warrior. You cant fake that kind of fight. Not possible.

Damn Straight.

The poll says otherwise.

And my mention of the databanks, pr, was more towards face-meltingness.

The poll really doesnt make a difference, people just vote and dont say anything at all, to back up thier reasons, so the poll is useless unless have something to backup thier reasons.. which only well nai had.. and darth..

It's very simple for me: Ask yourself why Sidious should have faked the entire fight ? I don't have anybody answering that because of one simple fact:

If Sidious was the superior fighter there he would simply have dominated Mace up to the point where Anakin entered the office and then (a few moments before entered the office) he would have thrown the fight (throw his weapon away, surrender) to get to a situation where he could have pulled Anakin to the dark side.

Why would he do any faked actions before Anakin entered the office ? To deceive Mace ? He really had no reason to do that and he was risking his life. Why would Sidious - the incarnation of cowardice - risk his life to deceive a person he had no need to deceive ?

And the fight was over when Anakin entered the office. So we have no reason why Sidious should have faked the fight and no single indication that he has done it. But still people believe he did... I don't get it...

Originally posted by Captain REX
The poll says otherwise.

And my mention of the databanks, pr, was more towards face-meltingness.

i hadnt seen your post...

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
The poll really doesnt make a difference, people just vote and dont say anything at all, to back up thier reasons, so the poll is useless unless have something to backup thier reasons.. which only well nai had.. and darth..

there are plenty of polls that have meaningless results... look at the batman begins v rots one...

Thats my point..

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Thats my point..

Sorry, i missed your post...

Originally posted by pr1983
Sorry, i missed your post...

How do you figure that? You quoted my post..

shit... i guess i was just agreeing with you then... damn eyesight is going in my old age...