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After hearing opinions in the versus forum, some claim Wally will be able to defeat Superman in a battle. Not easily, but he could. I'd like to hear some other opinions. I've also heard that a full potential Flash could also take on Superman Prime... That's what I heard.

Now for some opinions.

Debate.

Flash could take Superman then? No arguments?

guess not

Hmm...I mean if you think him through (but no author ever does) he is god-like....but as what he is portrayed no...never.

Flash is one of the top 5 most powerful heroes in comics. Superman happens to be my favorite but he has a fight on his hands.

Flash can do alot more than just run fast.

Logically, anyone who can move at speeds as great as Flash and Superman without obliterating themselves (or slowing down to find out that 5000 years have passed in the ten minutes they'd been flying at 99% of C) would be Gods, no doubt. But as they're portrayed in the comics, Superman would woop Flashes ass.

okay i don't even see why this is even a debate because supes would kill flash like it was nothing and yes flash is considered the fastest man alive but i know it's definately a fact taht flash does not stand a chance against supes and dc agrees with me on this.

Flash is untouchable, hes faster then supes, can't be hit by his heat eyes.. and has his infinate mass punch... how could supes win?? its not like hes going to hit flash... Unless hes extremely lucky

What are those punches gonna do to him? Oh yeah break his hands.

nope... Speed force...

See, that's why you have to take it as DC presents it. In comic books you can just make up an excuse as to why punching something at nigh lightspeed won't destroy you just as much as it destroys whatever you're hitting. 'Speed force!' ah, of course.

In reality if Flash hit anything at that speed he would disintergrate, a piece of wood let alone Superman.

In the comics, Superman would be able to take the punch.

Wait I was thinking of that Superman/Spider-Man comic where Spider-Man nearly broke his hands with those punches he was dishing out.

"In reality if Flash hit anything at that speed he would disintergrate, a piece of wood let alone Superman.

In the comics, Superman would be able to take the punch"

In the comics Flash with a punch ko a being in Supes league.

"okay i don't even see why this is even a debate because supes would kill flash like it was nothing"

No.

"and yes flash is considered the fastest man alive but i know it's definately a fact taht flash does not stand a chance against supes and dc agrees with me on this."

If he doesnt want, Supes wont catch him. How does he not stand a chance?

Yeah and if we used the logic that speedforce doesn't protect his punch then why doesn't mister Einstein's E=mc2? You go light speed you turn into energy?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Flash is one of the top 5 most powerful heroes in comics. Superman happens to be my favorite but he has a fight on his hands.

Flash can do alot more than just run fast.


Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Flash is untouchable, hes faster then supes, can't be hit by his heat eyes.. and has his infinate mass punch... how could supes win?? its not like hes going to hit flash... Unless hes extremely lucky

you guys are actually serious. if flash is all so powerful how come he didn't defeat doomsday? the flash isn't that much faster than superman. they did have a race in the comics and the flash barely won

and making up lame powers to give the flash an edge is just a poor excuse.

Originally posted by soleran30
Yeah and if we used the logic that speedforce doesn't protect his punch then why doesn't mister Einstein's E=mc2? You go light speed you turn into energy?

Well, E=mc2 doesn't have anything to do with time dialation and light speed travel, it's just the equation that demonstrates matter to energy conversion values. According to Einstein, you would turn to energy if you could manage to move at the speed of light...but you can't, so you won't.

Quote:

As far as i'm concerned, I don't care if gladiator were more powerful indeed than Superman. I don't care if there's 20 million beings more powerful than Superman. What some people fail to understand is that Superman is an idol. He's the guy that's never going to give up fighting for us. He's the adamant soldier that won't back down even if it costs him his life. Spiderman can do the same, but he has nowhere near the responsibility Superman has. Supes fights for a planet that isn't his own, for what they gave to him in the form of a home. And you can always rely on him. Always.

At least that's how i see Superman.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by jedi90
you guys are actually serious. if flash is all so powerful how come he didn't defeat doomsday? the flash isn't that much faster than superman. they did have a race in the comics and the flash barely won

and making up lame powers to give the flash an edge is just a poor excuse.

Erm think about flash for a second....

1) Stips supes of his speed... flash has a punching bag...
2) Supes can't touch flash...
3) yes running really fast will make your punches alot harder....
ergo... Lightspeed punch will have more power then a regular one...

FTL speed is the most illogical and physically unsound ability in comic books today. Don't try to make sense of the insensible.

Superman should win.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Erm think about flash for a second....

1) Stips supes of his speed... flash has a punching bag...
2) Supes can't touch flash...
3) yes running really fast will make your punches alot harder....
ergo... Lightspeed punch will have more power then a regular one...

In the physical universe, yes, a light speed punch would be devestating. A grain of salt traveling at lightspeed would be lethal.

However, it's quite clear that in comics, physical strength determines the forcefulness of a punch, rather than velocity.

Flash's punches are nowhere near as potent as Superman's.

With Speed, flash could punch hard and fast. but I believe Supes can and will bring his fight to the air or try frying wally with heat vision (if he's able to make contact). Flash not that durable.

Superman is as fast or near as fast a Flash. In their first race ever they both tied. Both are capable at moving at speeds well over the speed of light. Flash is really out muscled here. Superman takes him out in one punch.

they cant move faster then light, thats impossible without some sort of unnatural intervention (i.e. warp drive)

anyways, flash couldent hurt supes anyways, so...i dont get how this is a debate. plus supes flying can keep up with flash...

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
they cant move faster then light, thats impossible without some sort of unnatural intervention (i.e. warp drive)

anyways, flash couldent hurt supes anyways, so...i dont get how this is a debate. plus supes flying can keep up with flash...

Keep in mind that this is a comic book.

Originally posted by joesha28
With Speed, flash could punch hard and fast. but I believe Supes can and will bring his fight to the air or try frying wally with heat vision (if he's able to make contact). Flash not that durable.

In a comic book, strength has more effect on a punch's forcefulness than speed. Flash won't be hitting as hard as Superman, no matter how fast he goes.

Flash isn't very durable, but he's faster than Superman's heat vision. Given effort, he can make Superman look like he's standing still.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Superman is as fast or near as fast a Flash. In their first race ever they both tied. Both are capable at moving at speeds well over the speed of light. Flash is really out muscled here. Superman takes him out in one punch.

On the ground, Flash toys with Superman. In terms of running speed, Flash is way faster. Superman could probably keep up with Flash if he flew.

superman is superstrong super fast and mannnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyy other things he can do ; superman would so win

According to some, Flash can throw the multiverse at Supes.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
According to some, Flash can throw the multiverse at Supes.


nonesmilieph riiiiiight

Originally posted by jedi90
you guys are actually serious. if flash is all so powerful how come he didn't defeat doomsday? the flash isn't that much faster than superman. they did have a race in the comics and the flash barely won

and making up lame powers to give the flash an edge is just a poor excuse.
From what I heard, everyone but Superman were either depowered or recently had their ass whomped as to leave Superman as the only one to face Doomsday.

And also, Superman seems to have some crippling aura, similar to Wolverine, that causes his opponents to not use effective attacks. Like Etrigan slugfesting him instead of using magic. Or Green Lantern trying to hit him with a pool stick instead of using his ring.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
From what I heard, everyone but Superman were either depowered or recently had their ass whomped as to leave Superman as the only one to face Doomsday.

And also, Superman seems to have some crippling aura, similar to Wolverine, that causes his opponents to not use effective attacks. Like Etrigan slugfesting him instead of using magic. Or Green Lantern trying to hit him with a pool stick instead of using his ring.

I discovered the aura. Don't steal my research.

Flash throws the multiverse at Supes. Fight over.

wtf is the multiverse?

Forget about if mass punch.
Flash has super dense skin/ bone structure and speed force makes him even more durable, that's how he survives at high speeds.

Its like this Flash IS Durable...but not invulnerable....supes is...supes can fly faster than flash can run in my book and Ive not seen proof otherwise.....Superman prime c'mon.... flash in his best could not even multiverse prime.......but flash is cool and could beat just about anyone without invulnerablitlity or super speed...but he cannot touch supes....I need proof to believe otherwise

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
they cant move faster then light, thats impossible without some sort of unnatural intervention (i.e. warp drive)

anyways, flash couldent hurt supes anyways, so...i dont get how this is a debate. plus supes flying can keep up with flash...

Supermans speed is the same whether flying or running, the flash is faster than superman that is a fact, superman CANNOT keep up with the flash. He would most definately hurt superman, I dont think he'd win but supes would feel those punches.

Wally may be able to avoid getting hit by Superman, but that's not winning. Near-lightspeed running doesn't mean he can survive outer space or deal with Supes flying. It may take a day or two of chasing and dodging, but ultimately Superman has to win this.

Originally posted by roughrider
It may take a day or two of chasing and dodging, but ultimately Superman has to win this.

Only because hes Superman.

Unless there is a solid arena in spaceand Wally has a suit, they arent going to fight there.

Thus, on land Supes is not faster than Flash. Running or flying. This can really go either way. Id tend to lean more towards Flash seeing on how hes my second favorite DC character.

Heat vision wont catch him. Ice breath wont catch nor hold him. Its basically going to have to come down to punches. Flash HAS the ability to make his punches as strong as Superman or even harder.

True Superman is more durable, so Flash would have to nail him with many many punches. Flashisnt as durable, but has a great healing fator. However hed need time to heal a seriuos wound.

Flash could steal all of Supermans speed and render him motionless. then hit him with a few IMP's. That would knock him out with no question. But like i said, If Supes is able to connect with a good hit, Flash could be ko'd.

I guess what im saying is that it all depends on what kind of tactics Flash uses against Superman. Im still leaning more towards Wally though. I say he takes the majority 6.5/10.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
In the physical universe, yes, a light speed punch would be devestating. A grain of salt traveling at lightspeed would be lethal.

However, it's quite clear that in comics, physical strength determines the forcefulness of a punch, rather than velocity.

Flash's punches are nowhere near as potent as Superman's.
Not quite true....Flash hit that Speedster from the Hyperclan while ruinning and it was so strong that he almost left earth's Orbit.....

It's pretty simple really. Flash has the power to beat any character who has the exact same powers and experience as Superman. But he can't beat Superman because of the basic laws of the (DC) Universe.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's pretty simple really. Flash has the power to beat any character who has the exact same powers and experience as Superman. But he can't beat Superman because of the basic laws of the (DC) Universe.

I agree completely

Quote:

As far as i'm concerned, I don't care if gladiator were more powerful indeed than Superman. I don't care if there's 20 million beings more powerful than Superman. What some people fail to understand is that Superman is an idol. He's the guy that's never going to give up fighting for us. He's the adamant soldier that won't back down even if it costs him his life. Spiderman can do the same, but he has nowhere near the responsibility Superman has. Supes fights for a planet that isn't his own, for what they gave to him in the form of a home. And you can always rely on him. Always.

At least that's how i see Superman.

~wickerman~

The thing is what could Flash do to Superman? Nothing, If Flash does hit Superman it going to be like he hitting Solid Titanium, the Titanium is going to not be damaged while flash hand will be broken.

Actually if the flash did punch titanium he would absolutely destroy it. Since he could punch it with his fist nearing light-speed.

He stills has a human hand which would do nothing except break it. Flash punching superman would just leave flash with a broken hand.

There's an aura that wally gains from the speed force that protects him from the effects of his acceleration and deceleration. Not sure if it also protects him in this case but there are plenty of comics where flash punches things that would break a normal persons hands.

Still flash will not do any damage to Superman since he's Invulnerable.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
He stills has a human hand which would do nothing except break it. Flash punching superman would just leave flash with a broken hand.

Not really. Zum was as tough(durability) as Superman and as fast as Flash.

even if flash's hand didnt break, i doubt the impact would do much to clark, if anything at all.

now if flash had super strength then we might have a fight here, point is that clark can survive a nuclear explosion with basically no residual effects and a punch at near lightspeed from a solid object isnt as destructive as a molecular explosion AT lightspeed.

since flash doesn't have super strength i doubt he could do anything. his punch might knock clark back a few hundred feet, but it wouldn't hurt him.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
even if flash's hand didnt break, i doubt the impact would do much to clark, if anything at all.

now if flash had super strength then we might have a fight here, point is that clark can survive a nuclear explosion with basically no residual effects and a punch at near lightspeed from a solid object isnt as destructive as a molecular explosion AT lightspeed.

since flash doesn't have super strength i doubt he could do anything. his punch might knock clark back a few hundred feet, but it wouldn't hurt him.

The point was that his punch would do SOMETHING to superman it wouldn't be something that supes could completely ignore.

I dont know, I disagree I think a punch at near light-speed would be more damaging to single person than an atomic blast. The only thing moving at light speed in an atomic explosion is light.

The white martian was on Supes level, and Flash knocked his ass out....the only reason people are saying supes wins is because well he is supes....he "cant" lose to any other hero, EVER because its not possible, he is an ICON, a LEGEND!....sorta like with Wolverine exept not that fanboyish since most of the time there are right....but this time Wally could destroy him with the High velocity punch (no such thing as infinte mass people!) or just stopping him cold by stealing his speed, or any number of things that he could do

Originally posted by Hegemon875
The point was that his punch would do SOMETHING to superman it wouldn't be something that supes could completely ignore.

I dont know, I disagree I think a punch at near light-speed would be more damaging to single person than an atomic blast. The only thing moving at light speed in an atomic explosion is light.

well actually no, the force created by a single point blow of a solid object at near lightspeed has minimal effects in comparison to a subatomic nuclear blast.

nuclear strikes literally destroy everything at a molecular level, an impact at near lightspeed would simply create a super huge inertial and kinetic force, which is not atomic by any means. basically it would throw superman back momentarily at near the same speed as he was hit, since clark can withstand blows of that magnitude pretty easily. (a regular person would prolly explode but thier remains would be a mile away) but since clark cant explode it would simply throw him back at a high speed.

a nuclear blast however destroys things at a molecular level, it creates a chain reaction of fusion particles that create mass amounts of energy. people are basically vaporised, a subatomic strike is far more damaging to a single person then a solid object at high speeds.

at least with hitting someone like that they'd still be, well, in pieces, but at least there would be pieces, nuclear strikes will completley vaporise people within the center point of the explosion.

its simple physics, if clark can survive a nuclear strike unharmed, flash's punch would not do anything other then throw superman back pretty far and fast.

He could steal his speed, throw a blanket over him, then come back in a year and stab him in the throat with a knife.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
He could steal his speed, throw a blanket over him, then come back in a year and stab him in the throat with a knife.

hmmm then again couldnt he like vibrate his molecules WHILE punching him???? would that kinda mess him up more too?? try to make him explode??????? or is that just a theory still??

ps; Heg THAT is an AWESOME sig!!!! wanna fix my squashed pic and do something creative with it????????????!! please??!!

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Flash is untouchable, hes faster then supes, can't be hit by his heat eyes.. and has his infinate mass punch...

Infinite mass punch? Since when is the mass of an object determined by its speed? Force equals mass times accelaration, mass doesn't equal force times accelaration.

Originally posted by DarkAge
Infinite mass punch? Since when is the mass of an object determined by its speed? Force equals mass times accelaration, mass doesn't equal force times accelaration.

thats just what people call it...a better name is High Velocity Punch...very high....

Originally posted by DarkAge
Infinite mass punch? Since when is the mass of an object determined by its speed? Force equals mass times accelaration, mass doesn't equal force times accelaration.

This is just hearsay but it it has something to do with special relativity.

Link: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99186.htm

Quote: Question: How does mass increase when you approach the speed of light?
------------------------------------------------
Answer 1: This question addresses Einstein's theory of Special Relativity.
If my answer does not satisfy you, there are many clear books on
the topic in any university bookstore.
When a particle/object travels close to the speed of light, and is
thus considered "relativistic", the energy of the particle is
expressed as E = (gamma)*mass*velocity. Here gamma is a relativistic
factor that is greater than unity. So, one could consider the
factor (gamma)*mass a new mass, one that is larger than the mass
of the particle when it is at rest. This is why you hear that
mass increases when you approach the speed of light. It can be
argued that it is only an appearance of greater mass, or that it
depends on how you look at the problem. In short, it is all relative.
It should be noted, however, that in order for an object to actually
reach the speed of light, it must have no mass, since E=mass*speed of
light^2. This is true of massless particles such as the photon,
the "particle" that transports light. (Notation:* means multiply by
and ^2 means squared).
robin d erbacher
==================================================
=======
Answer 2: I apologize for being picky, but in the last response, I think
that should be the "momentum" = gamma*mass*velocity.
timo p grayson


Another Source

Link: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec96/844716828.Ph.r.html

Quote: The mass of an object does increase as it gets faster, and theoretically infinite at the speed of light. What this really means is that only massless things like photons (particles of light) actually travel at the speed of light. Massive bodies like electrons or rockets can only ALMOST get there. This is just because the force required to accelerate them closer and closer to light speed increases as they get heavier. So you would need an infinite force to actually reach it.

Why do such effects occur? It's basically because times and distances as we understand them day-to-day behave very strangely if you are moving fast. Imagine someone leaning out of a train window and gently tossing a baseball in the opposite direction, back along the track. He sees the ball move away from him slowly. Someone standing by the railway line will see the ball moving in the same direction as the train, just slightly slower. This dependance of speeds on the motion of whoever is observing them is normal, everyday 'classical' physics. It assumes, sensibly, that time ticks along at the same rate however fast you move, and that space stays the same size and shape. However, the speed of light is actually constant, unvarying, fixed. This has been checked many many times by experiments, and there are also good (but subtle) theoretical reasons for this being true. So, imagine the person on the train now shines a flashlight back the way he or she came. According to our common-sense example with the baseball, the speed of the light should look slower to the person on the ground than it looks to the person in the train. In fact, they both see the same speed. Distances and times ACTUALLY CHANGE. The train is 100m long when it's at rest, and the person on the train measures it to be the same length when it's moving at, say, half the speed of light. To the person by the track, it looks as though it's 87m long. Worse still, it's the same height, so it looks like a weird fat train, and all the people on it have thinner bodies. What's more, the clocks on the train are all running more slowly than the clock on the station platform.

The reason it took so long for people to measure these effects was that the speed of light is so high: seven hundred million miles per hour. Relativity shows us that these strange effects only become noticable at speeds of more than about a hundred million mph. For example, the fastest car available, which can drive at maybe 200mph on a straight racetrack, appears longer to the driver than to you, standing by the track, but the difference is much less than the width of an atom. Likewise, the driver's watch runs slower, but she'd have to drive for six hundred thousand years for her watch to lose just one second on yours. If you wanted to make something go faster and faster, you'd end up slowing ITs version of time more and more relative to yours. In theory, you can make it go so fast that time stops dead, but that would need infinite force. There is no number bigger than infinity, so you can't make time reverse by pushing harder than infinity!

I hope this helps a little, but if you want to know more there are plenty of good books on Relativity which are written for the non-scientist. Many of them will give you a good understanding of the theory, and maybe you'll even be tempted to look at the equations (they're not much more complicated than our 'GCSE' or 'O' level exams here in Britain: just some algebra and a little bit of really simple calculus. And after all, there's no better way of learning maths than using it to tackle something interesting!)

Superman catches the Flash and opens up a can on speedy.

sure....if he COULD catch him

Originally posted by Blair Wind
sure....if he COULD catch him

Don't underestimate Superman's speed. The Flash may be faster but Superman is smarter and nearly as fast. And thats on top of the fact that the Flash can make mistakes, since he is cocky as hell.

The Flash is not that much faster than Superman is.

The Flash runs at the speed of light and Superman, near the speed. But he's been known to reach lightspeed too..

SUPERMAN WOULD DESTROY THE FLASH WITH HIS EYES CLOSED, BOTH HANDS TIED BEHIND HIS BACK, AND ONE OF HIS LEGS AMPUTATED.

MAYBE THERES SOME INFO IM MISSING...BUT HOW THE HELL IS FLASH FASTER THAN SUPERMAN? THERE'S NO WAY. I DONT THINK YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SUPERMAN REALLY TURNS IT UP. WHEN LOIS DIED, HE WAS FLYING AROUND THE EARTH IN LESS THAN A SECOND...MANY TIMES AND CAUSED IT TO SWITCH ROTATION. YOU MEAN TO TELL ME FLASH CAN RUN THAT FAST? HAS HE EVER DONE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? HOW COULD FLASH HURT SUPERMAN? IF SUPERMAN REALLY REALLY TURNED IT UP AND WAS PISSED OFF, I'D SAY THE FIGHT WOULDN'T GO MORE THAN A FEW MINUTES, PROBABLY SECONDS. AND FLASH GOT WHUPPED BY DOOMSDAY. DID SUPERMAN? OH YEAH, THATS RIGHT, HE DEFEATED DOOMSDAY.

first off why do you type in CAPS???? you look like a n00b

second, you are a n00b, its common knowledge that flash is faster then superman. Flash can run through time and into different dimensions.

and the superman your talking about is pre-crisis superman, not post-crisis superman (what superman is now) if Clark and Wally had a foot race superman isnt even remotely close to being at flashs speed.

flying they are closer, but flash is still faster running then superman is flying.



from: http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/wally.html

Flashtastic mate:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3512/flashsuperman4jl.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/219/flashsuperman27yw.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8858/flashheal16ph.th.jpghttp://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4205/flashheal27dm.th.jpg

Flash wins

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
On the ground, Flash toys with Superman. In terms of running speed, Flash is way faster. Superman could probably keep up with Flash if he flew.

Sort of. If ALL Superman does is travel, then in space his flight capabilities can keep up with Flash before he enters the Speed Force. However, EVEN if flying- whether on space or on Earth- Superman's OPERATIONAL speed (the speed at which he can act, perceive, fight, rescue, etc.) is significantly slower than Flash.

For example, when the JLA went to help Adam Strange, Superman EXPLICITLY SAID he couldn't fly faster than the speed of light to rescue Adam's family (in space) before the Zeta Beam hit. Flash then EXPLICITLY SAYS he CAN travel faster than light/Zeta Beam, but cannot fly. The solution was for Flash to lend Superman speed enough to outrace the beam, rescue the family, and come back to the planet. I like to think that Wally's speed lending abilities impart the Speed Force aura that allows Wally to safe-carry people at incredible speeds (whereas Superman lacks this aura and turns people to paste if travelling too quickly).

Another example is Superman flying to Lois after she had been shot, arcing up into space, travelling half-way around the world, at incredible speed- no doubt the fastest he'd do for any other person on Earth- but still far far below Wally's peak operational speeds.

The only cases of Superman's flying speed approaching Flash is when he's travelled between galaxies/planets and the like, where operational speed wasn't a factor. It's kind of like saying a Green Lantern could keep up with the Flash in a fight because they have FTL interstellar travel.

From what I understand, The Flash is faster than Superman, but not by much. Superman at his best I am talking about.

In a fight between the two, I have to say Superman would win.

If Flash ran as fast as he could and threw a punch, yes it would be devastating. As someone stated in a post earlier, a grain of salt at light speed would be devastating.

Now, if Superman went as fast as he could and threw a punch, combined with his already amazing super class 100 strength, he could destroy anything.

Now, who is to say that Superman would get hit. Remember that he is very fast too, as is the Flash. Maybe neither one would be able to hit the other.

If the Flash is running in circles around Superman, Superman would just have to use what he has arund him to defeat the Flash. Freeze the ground so Flash would slip, and continually have his heat vision running. The Flash accidentally runs through his heat vision, he would be done. Literally toast. He is human, with human frailties.

Superman has this fight won.

Originally posted by xkalybr
From what I understand, The Flash is faster than Superman, but not by much. Superman at his best I am talking about.

Superman is fast. Theres no doubts about that. However his best vs Flash's best isnt really close.

Originally posted by xkalybr
Now, if Superman went as fast as he could and threw a punch, combined with his already amazing super class 100 strength, he could destroy anything.

Superman isnt faster than Zoom, therefore he wouldnt be a blur to Wally. If Superman were to go his fastest and throw a punch Flash would/should be able to see it coming and vibrate through the punch. Superman is able to vibrate through punches as well. HOWEVER if Flashwas moving at his fastest, he would/should be a blur to Superman.

Originally posted by xkalybr
Now, who is to say that Superman would get hit. Remember that he is very fast too, as is the Flash. Maybe neither one would be able to hit the other.

See above.

Originally posted by xkalybr
If the Flash is running in circles around Superman, Superman would just have to use what he has arund him to defeat the Flash. Freeze the ground so Flash would slip, and continually have his heat vision running. The Flash accidentally runs through his heat vision, he would be done. Literally toast. He is human, with human frailties.

Superman has this fight won.

Superman could freeze the ground to slow Flash up. Theres no doubts about that. However if hes hit with a bunch of IMP's, has his speed stolen or hit with a vibrational punch, it may ko Superman. Flash is faster than heat vision as well. And if hes hit with it, hes able to speed up his metabolism to heal instantly.

I still think Flash wins more than not.

Reading this thread reminds me of the "Speed Facts" they used to have in the Barry Allen's Flash comics. Things like "a piece of straw moving at hurricane speed can cut through a tree". If you use science to base your opinion, then Flash CAN take out Superman. But I agree with the people who say that Superman is an icon and DC won't allow him to be beaten by another hero. If Superman is ever beaten, it's going to be due to some "Kryptonian virus" that made him weaker than normal or something along that line.

Anomoly...why don't you take my ball sac and put it in your mouth...lol Flash got whupped by Doomsday...guess he wasn't fast enough...hee hee

Flash is never written to full potential (more so than even superman) Flash can do sooooooo much that its not even funny. And as Scoobs already posted the pics, why are we discussing this....

Originally posted by Bushwacker
Reading this thread reminds me of the "Speed Facts" they used to have in the Barry Allen's Flash comics. Things like "a piece of straw moving at hurricane speed can cut through a tree". If you use science to base your opinion, then Flash CAN take out Superman. But I agree with the people who say that Superman is an icon and DC won't allow him to be beaten by another hero. If Superman is ever beaten, it's going to be due to some "Kryptonian virus" that made him weaker than normal or something along that line.

But another hero has beaten Superman in the past.
Batman.

Flash is faster than Superman. Period.

Flash has been defeated by a guy that throws boomerangs. A guy with a freeze gun and a guy that throws ping pong balls.

I think Superman could definitely take him.

If it was on a planet with no inhabitants all Supes has to do is fly out of range and pretty much take pot shots. Eventually the planet would fall apart and Wally has nothing to run on.

flash is the fastest man alive true but don't forget he is still human and superman who is god like and the dc universe greatest champion; anyone who thinks the flash can kick supes ass in a fight is just freakin stupid cuz they make no sense, infact i would like to see the day flash will be able to take on darkseid, doomsday, mongul, and the rest of supes most powerful enemies and win. just because he is fast doesn't mean supes cant stop him and that's the reason they call him super and not flash; do you guys notice the difference. all this stupidity is really making my head hurt and if dc was to make the flash battle supes, do you guys really think flash would be the winner, only in your dreams.

Originally posted by MaxG
Flash is faster than Superman. Period.

Flash has been defeated by a guy that throws boomerangs. A guy with a freeze gun and a guy that throws ping pong balls.

I think Superman could definitely take him.

If it was on a planet with no inhabitants all Supes has to do is fly out of range and pretty much take pot shots. Eventually the planet would fall apart and Wally has nothing to run on.
I believe Flash can actually run in space. In fact, I don't think Wally even HAS to run in order to move(something about moving his molecules instead), he just prefers running. also, you shouldn't use one character's bad feats and compare them to another character's good ones. Superman has also had trouble with Batman and Toyman. It's all just PIS.
Originally posted by 56857
flash is the fastest man alive true but don't forget he is still human and superman who is god like and the dc universe greatest champion; anyone who thinks the flash can kick supes ass in a fight is just freakin stupid cuz they make no sense, infact i would like to see the day flash will be able to take on darkseid, doomsday, mongul, and the rest of supes most powerful enemies and win. just because he is fast doesn't mean supes cant stop him and that's the reason they call him super and not flash; do you guys notice the difference. all this stupidity is really making my head hurt and if dc was to make the flash battle supes, do you guys really think flash would be the winner, only in your dreams.
You're right that DC will never have Flash beat Superman is a fair fight. But that doesn't change the fact that Flash is EASILY one of the most powerful heroes in comicdom and, if both were written to their full potential, then Flash should beat Supes practically every time (speed steal, IMPs, thunderclaps, etc). The thing is, while Superman is a boy scout who holds back all the time, Wally is probably one of the nicest guys in the League who consistently holds back on his enemies. He has plenty of ways to take out most of his opponents before they can even react.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
I believe Flash can actually run in space. In fact, I don't think Wally even HAS to run in order to move(something about moving his molecules instead), he just prefers running. also, you shouldn't use one character's bad feats and compare them to another character's good ones. Superman has also had trouble with Batman and Toyman. It's all just PIS.


I'd really like scans of Flash running in space or in the air without outside assistance... otherwise that's BS.

I'm not using a character's "bad feats". If I used the example of Flash slipping on a banana peel that would be me using a bad feat or when he got knocked out with a pipe from a human after SpeedForce power up. What I'm doing is using a character's rogue's gallery. A rogue's gallery is in no way a rare occurence. How many times has he gone up against Boomerang, Freeze or others? Alot. No way is that listing a rare bad feat.

Originally posted by MaxG
Flash has been defeated by a guy that throws boomerangs.People away say this but it's never true. Name once.

I think Superman could definitely take him.

If it was on a planet with no inhabitants all Supes has to do is fly out of range and pretty much take pot shots. Eventually the planet would fall apart and Wally has nothing to run on. Sure Superman could win, but so could Flash. The comparison you're making is ridiculous. "If the planet had no inhabitants" indeed... "If Flash had kryptonite gloves" or "If Superman were an old lady". But the funny thing is that even under the conditions you give, Flash, given free reign to act as much out of character as a planet-destroying Superman is, could travel back in time then slay Superman as a baby.

Originally posted by MaxG
How many times has he gone up against Boomerang, Freeze or others? Alot. No way is that listing a rare bad feat. Bull. Cite even ONE EXAMPLE of Flash losing to Boomerange or Trickster. Against Freeze, he's stalemated, but that's because Freeze's gun lays down cold-fields which slow objects, such as police bullets or Scarlett Speedsters, and essentially takes away Flash's given advantage. It's no more embarassing for Superman to lose to the Kryptonite Man, Metallo, or Mxylptlk due to his vulnerabilities.

Originally posted by MaxG
I'd really like scans of Flash running in space or in the air without outside assistance... otherwise that's BS.
Taken from the Flash Respect Thread; Wally running in space:
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaourworldsatwarpg033kg.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaourworldsatwarpg040yr.jpg

Originally posted by jedi90
you guys are actually serious. if flash is all so powerful how come he didn't defeat doomsday? the flash isn't that much faster than superman. they did have a race in the comics and the flash barely won

and making up lame powers to give the flash an edge is just a poor excuse. In what issue was flash involved with Doomsday?? Saying that, all ive read is his first appearance. I take it that they did bring Doomsday back at some point?

isnt Flash the one that moved faster than the speed of light, if i remember he changed into a tachyon particle. this was so long ago , i might be thinking of someone else. Dont know who else that could be.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Taken from the Flash Respect Thread; Wally running in space



Artistic license anyone? Using that logic I could put up scans where Aquaman was "flying" in space IN THAT SAME STORY ARC.

Flash has only "flown" a couple of times and that's by using his arms or feet as whirlwind generators that cause him to float.

He can't run in space anymore than Aquaman was flying in space in that same story.

if you make supes use his full potential, even with the flashes speed his still not gonna win period because there are many ways supes can destroy the flash with ease if he wanted to fight at full potential. did you guys read mark verhedains superman starring superboy when they team up to battle the eradicator, superboy states there that supes can split the earth in half with only a sneeze if he wanted to and don't forget that he can breathe in space something flash is not capable off. if supes has to use the sentence " this ends now" to the flash, the speedster will be finished and it'll be a done deal period

Originally posted by 56857
if you make supes use his full potential, even with the flashes speed his still not gonna win period because there are many ways supes can destroy the flash with ease if he wanted to fight at full potential. did you guys read mark verhedains superman starring superboy when they team up to battle the eradicator, superboy states there that supes can split the earth in half with only a sneeze if he wanted to and don't forget that he can breathe in space something flash is not capable off. if supes has to use the sentence " this ends now" to the flash, the speedster will be finished and it'll be a done deal period
Ever hear of the word, "hyperbole?" Characters, as well as people in real life, use them all the time.

Anyway, here's a scenario:

-The fight starts.
-Before Superman can even THINK of what he's going to do, the Flash runs up to him and steals his speed; Supes is now a living statue, meaning he cannot move AT ALL.
-Now, if Superman is turned into a living statue, how do ANY of his powers (heat vision, super-strength, T-VO, etc) help him out?

Flash may not have as many powers as Superman, but what he has is more than enough to beat just about any body.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Flash may not have as many powers as Superman, but what he has is more than enough to beat just about any body.
Agreed 100%. A lot of characters can travel fast but Flash is just about the only one who do can other things exactly as fast as travels which in my opinion makes him the flat out the most dangerous person walking DC Earth. All the speed steals and kinetic energy tricks are really just icing on the cake.

ok some thing to think about

1. supes is from a planet with higher gravity, if you stay on a planet thats gravity is less dense than yours, over time your bones weaken.
2. flash is the fastest HUMAN, even though speed doesnt have much to do with it. if that was the case, supes would just fly like lightning into every foe.
3. it is posible for flash to kill supes, it would be though as hard if not harder than beating him in a race

didnt flash gets his ass handed to him by supergirl not to long ago?

Originally posted by chris_60262
didnt flash gets his ass handed to him by supergirl not to long ago?
Well yeah, but so did everyone else including Superman (before he used the K-ring), the Teen Titans, the JSA, the Outsiders, and the JLA.

Supergirl basically made a hobby out of kicking every one's asses.

The only one that could be a match for Superman is Captain Marvel. I'd love to see THAT fight in a movie.

Originally posted by chris_60262
didnt flash gets his ass handed to him by supergirl not to long ago?
She made him run into space where he couldn't breathe (though she could still speak ). Not what I call an ass kicking.

Originally posted by chris_60262
didnt flash gets his ass handed to him by supergirl not to long ago?

Hardly a legitimate feat. Let's put it this way. You'd need to cite an example where EVERYONE wasn't being put in a bad light at the same time. For example, yes, it's true that Wally found himself impaled upon a sword in Identity Crisis, but in that same battle a Green Latern, Atom, Hawkman, Canary, Zatana, etc. ALL found themselves ridiculously incapacitated. By the same token, when Flash- somehow- is unable to breath despite her being able to speak and himself always running at speeds too fast to respirate ANYWAYS... even taking such a ridiculous case as true, in the same story she out-blitzed the autoshields of a Green Latern and, as Accel points out, proceeds to wreck a bunch of characters and teams she has no business easily walking all over.

A legimate showing of Wally's weakness would have to be one taken in isolation, otherwise it's no different from all the times Superman found himself incapacitated along with his fellow Leaguers.

Probably would come down to an edurance fight, sure Flash might be able to steal Superman's kinetic energy. But energy can be regained especially in Supe's case.


Under the yellow sun he is just a battery he can go on forever, Wally will run out of juice eventually.

Originally posted by SupezM'
Probably would come down to an edurance fight, sure Flash might be able to steal Superman's kinetic energy. But energy can be regained especially in Supe's case.

Under the yellow sun he is just a battery he can go on forever, Wally will run out of juice eventually. The fight should be over long before endurance becomes a factor, but even if that weren't the case, Superman is literally a battery. Batteries run out and even if they can be recharged, that takes time. Someone said it glibly, but it's rather true, Flash could speed steal Superman, throw a black blanket over him, then come back and kill him after all his energy is exhausted.

Flash, on the other hand, is not a battery but a conduit. He mainlines, or channels, the Speed Force... the extra-dimensional, unlimited source of his powers. How else could he move his body at such speeds, hit with the force of white dwarf star, regularly smash the laws of physics in terms of friction, energy, respiration, gravity, etc.?

Bottom line, Clark's "juice" is stored solar, Wally's is an entire never-ceasing dimension... Clark's a bottle, but Wally's on tap.

Ok, your talking about throwing a blanket over him. In case you didnt read ALL of this forum, Superman and Flash raced. Superman BARELY lost. You say Flash can be that fast? Flash my have a super speed punch after going full speed. Well, think about this? Both Superman and Flash hit a punching bag standing still right? Flash rocks it a little. Supe Blows a hole threw it and it flies a mile. Now, take Flash punching with his speed. Ok, he hits a lot harder now. BUT, Superman going almost the same speed just a LITTLE slower, would crush anything in its way. It would be unstopable. Therefor, Flash could not beat Superman. Superman gets one hit at Superspeed and Flash would be out of the picture...Not to mention, Superman could take infinate hits and survive, but Flash could take one devistating blow and be dead...

Flash got his ass beat by Doomsday! And so did the rest of the superhero's who fought with Superman against Doomsday. Superman beat Doomsday and it took all he had. If Flash was so strong why didn't he beat Doomsday? B/c he is weak. It's almost blashpemous to say Flash would beat Superman. He got his butt kicked in the comics anyway...

Originally posted by SuperTrevor Ok, your talking about throwing a blanket over him. In case you didnt read ALL of this forum, Superman and Flash raced.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/deusflac/comics/JLA89pg01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/deusflac/comics/JLA89pg02.jpg

Leagues beyond Superman's ability... Clark simply can't do that, period.
As for the Infinite Mass Punch, again, read your JLA. It KO's super-bricks with regularity (Mongul, Grodd, Wonder Woman, White Martians, etc). As for speed stealing, he's drained energy from the entire planet, floating alien cities, and 500 foot tidal waves. He can stop Supes dead.

Originally posted by GODOFALL1 Flash got his ass beat by Doomsday! And so did the rest of the superhero's who fought with Superman against Doomsday. Superman beat Doomsday and it took all he had. If Flash was so strong why didn't he beat Doomsday? B/c he is weak. It's almost blashpemous to say Flash would beat Superman. He got his butt kicked in the comics anyway...You're pretty much acknowledged as a dumbass so I shouldn't waste my breath, but:
1. Superman got his ass beat by Doomsday too.
2. No one is comparing them THEN. OVER A DECADE AGO back in 1993. If your head wasn't still stuck up your bum from back then, you'd know that both characters have received considerable power-ups since then, but Flash's more significant for 1-on-1 fighting.
3. Blasphemy implies religion. You want to paint yourself as a blindly faithful zealot without reason, that's your prerogative.
4. Every race between current Wally and current Supes has ended with Wally's decisive victory. When the fate of the world rested on speed in "The Human Race" Flash was selected over Supes. Flash has plenty of tools to take Supes out, but more importantly the speed to execute before Supes can respond.
5. As for taking out the powerful, recently Flash banished Superboy-Prime- a literal planet-mover- for years with barely any effort on his part. Come IC#7, we're likely to see all the hosts of the DCU fight this same threat with a lot more than it took Flash.

Flash feats:
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050629045151

Sends someone into orbit with ONE punch:
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003064go.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003073nt.jpg

Speed kicks WW's ass (she says it feels worse than getting hit by Superman):
http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman214110ka.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman214129xm.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwoman214137tt.jpg

Superman will still win.....And always will...

Originally posted by Demas
You're pretty much acknowledged as a dumbass so I shouldn't waste my breath, but:
1. Superman got his ass beat by Doomsday too.
2. No one is comparing them THEN. OVER A DECADE AGO back in 1993. If your head wasn't still stuck up your bum from back then, you'd know that both characters have received considerable power-ups since then, but Flash's more significant for 1-on-1 fighting.
3. Blasphemy implies religion. You want to paint yourself as a blindly faithful zealot without reason, that's your prerogative.
4. Every race between current Wally and current Supes has ended with Wally's decisive victory. When the fate of the world rested on speed in "The Human Race" Flash was selected over Supes. Flash has plenty of tools to take Supes out, but more importantly the speed to execute before Supes can respond.
5. As for taking out the powerful, recently Flash banished Superboy-Prime- a literal planet-mover- for years with barely any effort on his part. Come IC#7, we're likely to see all the hosts of the DCU fight this same threat with a lot more than it took Flash.

Agreed. GODOFALL1 doesn't know what he's talking about.

Flash will win unless Supes flies in the air and burns the whole planet.

Flash is a dork and there is no way he would beat Superman. Personally I think they both are weak, and I've said it before but Goku(DBZ) would destroy them all at the same time. You can say I dont know what Im talking about....but I'll know the facts and you guys can keep your little secrets.

Dude, do you think Goku can beat anybody? cause thats what it sounds like? And if thats what you think, then your mistaken. And with Goku and his powers dont match up anywhere to Superman or the Flash. Just face it dude, your arguing strictly on your own opinion that Goku is better. That proves nothing...

Fun fact: I did some calculations. If someone could punch at the speed of light the impact would be 153,000,000 tons!!!

Supertrevor is very correct. Believe it or not, Superman has taken harder hits than Goku ever has. Like the post above, if Flash hits him at lightspeed, that's harder than anything Goku can do. Goku would be more of a match for DC's Karate Kid.

"and I've said it before but Goku(DBZ) would destroy them all at the same time. "


"And with Goku and his powers dont match up anywhere to Superman or the Flash"


Thats funny. Two different posters from two different sides with the same extreme view.

Both are incorrect. Flash IS faster than Goku unless he teleports, and Goku IS more powerful one on one than either. But the two together? He would have more than its share of troubles.


- - -


"Fun fact: I did some calculations. If someone could punch at the speed of light the impact would be 153,000,000 tons!!!"


Fun fact. Real life physics dont match comic physics. Unless its backed up by who writes it.


- - -


"Believe it or not, Superman has taken harder hits than Goku ever has"


Nope. They both have taken serious high hits. In DBZ power and strenght are related with ki.

Unless you think pll who can blast mountains and planets, and only seem to get hurt most of the times when they actually punch each other, doesnt qualify as top tier.

Wich they are.

What a neverending debate.

IN MY OPINION I SEE THE FLASH LOSING TO SUPERMAN...EVEN IF THE FLASH DID RUN AT SUPERSPEED AND HIT SUPERMAN HE WUD ONLY BREAK HIS FIST...THE ONLY WAY I CAN SEE THE FLASH BEATING SUPERMAN IS IF HE RUNS AROUND THE UNIVERSE AND GETS KRYPTONITE OR HE SPLITS SUPERMANS MOLECULES LIKE HE DOES WHEN HE RUNS THROUGH WALLS(THIS IS ANOTHA ONE OF HIS POWERS) AND ALSO THAT COMMENT ABOUT DOOMSDAY...WASNT THEIR A TIME WHEN THE WHOLE JUSTICE LEAGUE COULDNT BEAT A VILLIAN BUT FLASH JUST RAN TO THE VILLIAN AND SPLIT THEIR MOLECULES(I DONT REMEBER THE VILLIANS NAME BUT IM SURE IT HAPPENED IN THE JUSTICE LEAGUE) AND YEAH SUPERMAN USED TO BE ABLE TO RACE THE FLASH AND LOSE BY AN INCH BUT NOW THEIR IS NO COMPETITON...LOOK AT SMALLVILLE SO FLASH DEFINETLY HAS THE SPEED FACTOR

PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!! PEANUT BUTTER JELLY WITH A BASEBALL BAT PEANUT BUTTER JELLY WITH A BASEBALL BAT!!!

LOL U FOOLS ARE ACTUALLY SAYING SUPERMAN CAN BEAT GOKU...LOL FIRST THING FIRST...CAN SUPERMAN BLOW UP A PLANET...I DONT THINK SO...MATTA FACT I KNOW HE CANT!!!LOOK VEGEAT COULD BLOW UP A PLANET WHEN HE WAS A REGULAR SAYING SO COMPARE GOKU SUPER SAYIJN 4 GOKU TO SUPERMAN...YEAH AND MARCMAN...U ARE A FOOL "Fun fact: I did some calculations. If someone could punch at the speed of light the impact would be 153,000,000 tons!!!" <<<<THIS ISNT TRU LIAR..U OBVIOUSLY HAVE NEVER GOT IN A FIGHT BEFOTHE FASTER U PUNCH THE WEAKER IT IS...LOOK AT A HAYMAKER LOL STOP TELLIN LIES I GOT GOKU CRUSHIN THE FLAH AND SUPERMAN N E DAY

Originally posted by Theisos
Quote:

As far as i'm concerned, I don't care if gladiator were more powerful indeed than Superman. I don't care if there's 20 million beings more powerful than Superman. What some people fail to understand is that Superman is an idol. He's the guy that's never going to give up fighting for us. He's the adamant soldier that won't back down even if it costs him his life. Spiderman can do the same, but he has nowhere near the responsibility Superman has. Supes fights for a planet that isn't his own, for what they gave to him in the form of a home. And you can always rely on him. Always.

At least that's how i see Superman.

~wickerman~ that was nice to know.

supes said when flash and zoom was fighting he couldn't see them. so thats saying when flash is going all out supes can not deal with him you can't beat what you can't see.

flash just has speed
let's see here
superman has what now?

Speed
Strength
Firestarting eyes
xray vision

let's use common sense.. SUPERMAN HAS ALREADY WON

goku would win

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9633/flashenergysteal22sr.th.jpg

dbz sucks

Your Mom suck's!

Supes could beat flash even though flash is faster.

DBZ is a good show.

My boys are Cooler and well another boy scout Goku

DBZ is for 14 year old girls.

Seriously lol.

DBZ is for 14 year old girls????? You call a show where warriors lose limbs and are incinerated by energy blasts for girls? Supervillians that destroy ENTIRE planets, entire civilizations with one blow and you say its for girls. And then you say seriously and laugh. I think you're so dumb you would try and wake up a sleeping bag. LOL Now thats funny. Come on man. DBZ is the greatest action cartoon of all time and the warriors and villians would wipe out not only Flash and Superman but just about anybody. I mean seriously, Goku can instant transmission from here to Pluto in less than a second. The flash could not run from here to Pluto in less than a second. Superman has weaknesses. Goku does not. That's about it.

I mean come on guys!!!!! FOR REAL, you mean to sit here and tell me that Majin Buu would not destroy Flash and Superman at the same time? Please...........if that really is your opinions you guys are really lost. Really lost.

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
DBZ is for 14 year old girls????? You call a show where warriors lose limbs and are incinerated by energy blasts for girls? Supervillians that destroy ENTIRE planets, entire civilizations with one blow and you say its for girls. And then you say seriously and laugh. I think you're so dumb you would try and wake up a sleeping bag. LOL Now thats funny. Come on man. DBZ is the greatest action cartoon of all time and the warriors and villians would wipe out not only Flash and Superman but just about anybody. I mean seriously, Goku can instant transmission from here to Pluto in less than a second. The flash could not run from here to Pluto in less than a second. Superman has weaknesses. Goku does not. That's about it.


Yes, Im saying a japanese kids cartoon is for... get this... Japanese kids.

Seriously, the show is a joke and shouldnt even becompared to any of the DC characters.

Go get some more crayons and colour in your DBZ colouring book and let the mature people have their conversation.

Originally posted by Super Villan
flash just has speed
let's see here
superman has what now?

Speed
Strength
Firestarting eyes
xray vision

let's use common sense.. SUPERMAN HAS ALREADY WON

flash could do alot more then just run fast. He can hit supes with punch that has the mass of white dwrf star.

or simply steal his speed making supes a statue. and there's nothing supes could do to stop him.

vibrate right trough supes causing some bad results for supes.

I dont see any thing wrong with white,black,mexicons or anyone for that fact watching japenanes anime. but their is some that i think are just for jap kidshoover

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
I mean come on guys!!!!! FOR REAL, you mean to sit here and tell me that Majin Buu would not destroy Flash and Superman at the same time? Please...........if that really is your opinions you guys are really lost. Really lost.


Who cares? Your spiky haired kindergarden art Superman wannabe clone character has nothing to do with this forum.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Flash is untouchable, hes faster then supes, can't be hit by his heat eyes.. and has his infinate mass punch... how could supes win?? its not like hes going to hit flash... Unless hes extremely lucky

Flash it speed of light. Superman is 99% the speed of light, plus a million more things. Superman could do 99% of what Flash can do with speed alone, plus a million other things that Flash can not. Superman can heal and take more blows that Flash. The math is simple. Flash goes down.

Flash's respect thread is misleading. Against someone really fast, he won't be able to do the same things as he can to someone really slow. Also, if he gets hit in the head, he's done for. Flash is a contradictory character. He's supposed to have no strength, yet he can hit people as tough as Solomon Grundy going at the speed of light and not break his arm. I just don't get it. Superman wins, and I'm not saying that because he's my fav........... Flash could hurt Supes, but it'd take a lot to put him down, while Flash will go down with one punch.....

Originally posted by MARCMAN
Fun fact: I did some calculations. If someone could punch at the speed of light the impact would be 153,000,000 tons!!!

Which is why Flash should not be able to do it. If he hits a brick wall at with that force, and has only the strength of a man, he dies. He should not be able to strike that hard. It's impossible, but even if he does, Superman can take a few blows. Flash can not. Supes is 99% his speed. I don't see how 1 % makes that much of a difference.

DBZ bores the hell out of me, for the record, not that anyone cares.

I think Superman would win quite easily...

Originally posted by superman41082
Flash it speed of light. Superman is 99% the speed of light, plus a million more things. Superman could do 99% of what Flash can do with speed alone, plus a million other things that Flash can not. Superman can heal and take more blows that Flash. The math is simple. Flash goes down.

Flash's respect thread is misleading. Against someone really fast, he won't be able to do the same things as he can to someone really slow. Also, if he gets hit in the head, he's done for. Flash is a contradictory character. He's supposed to have no strength, yet he can hit people as tough as Solomon Grundy going at the speed of light and not break his arm. I just don't get it. Superman wins, and I'm not saying that because he's my fav........... Flash could hurt Supes, but it'd take a lot to put him down, while Flash will go down with one punch.....
The Speed Force explains every thing that Flash is capable of doing. It allows him to run at lightspeed without causing harm to himself or to those around him. It also allows him to his things at very high speeds without any harm coming to him.
Originally posted by superman41082
Which is why Flash should not be able to do it. If he hits a brick wall at with that force, and has only the strength of a man, he dies. He should not be able to strike that hard. It's impossible, but even if he does, Superman can take a few blows. Flash can not. Supes is 99% his speed. I don't see how 1 % makes that much of a difference.
Both of them have shown multiple times to go beyond lightspeed. But where Superman has gone about 20X faster than light, Flash has been shown to go millions of times faster than light. It's more than just 1% difference.

As for the fight, Flash can just make Superman helpless the whole fight by stealing his speed.
Originally posted by Captain REX
DBZ bores the hell out of me, for the record, not that anyone cares.

I think Superman would win quite easily...
Nope. There are few people who can really beat Flash when he goes all out and Superman isn't one of them.

Flash would win by exploiting superman's weakness. Kryptonite.

flash could search the earth over and over and over until he found some while Superman sat there helpless because the flash stole all his speed.

Captian Rex, You're a moron. DBZ is awesome. I can't belive you guys have this long thread about Superman and Flash and who would win, and then you turn around have threads about Superman and Goku? Are you serious? So if Superman and Flash would be a good fight and you're saying maybe Flash could win, does that mean you think The Flash could beat Goku???????? LMAO! You guys are lost. Its starting to not even be funny anymore.

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Captian Rex, You're a moron. DBZ is awesome. I can't belive you guys have this long thread about Superman and Flash and who would win, and then you turn around have threads about Superman and Goku? Are you serious? So if Superman and Flash would be a good fight and you're saying maybe Flash could win, does that mean you think The Flash could beat Goku???????? LMAO! You guys are lost. Its starting to not even be funny anymore.

stay on topic moron

take that DBZ shit to the Goku vs Superman thread in the Game vs forum

youre just not making sense. If you can compare superman to goku and then superman to flash, that would mean flash is comparable to Goku? Do you see how stupid that sounds?

I would start a Flash vs Goku thread, but that's just a waste of time

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
youre just not making sense. If you can compare superman to goku and then superman to flash, that would mean flash is comparable to Goku? Do you see how stupid that sounds?

stay on topic moron

take that DBZ shit to the Goku vs Superman thread in the Game vs forum

Why are you superman fans so threatened by DBZ. Don't get angry b/c its better and the warriors are stronger. Just accept it.

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Why are you superman fans so threatened by DBZ. Don't get angry b/c its better and the warriors are stronger. Just accept it.

stay on topic moron

take that DBZ shit to the Goku vs Superman thread in the Game vs forum

Yeah, you guys keep talking about flash and superman. {shaking head}

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Yeah, you guys keep talking about flash and superman. {shaking head} ok ok just go away

Oh and another thing you guys, and Brian Singer got to remember....

HE'S NOT PRE-CRISIS SUPERMAN ANYMORE.

Unless flash has like a kryptonite sword this is a no brainer. Sure flash is faster but superman is indestructible

Originally posted by jeffrodini
Oh and another thing you guys, and Brian Singer got to remember....

HE'S NOT PRE-CRISIS SUPERMAN ANYMORE. Besides the move in time at will powers, yeah, he pretty much is Pre-Crisis Superman. Excluding OYL Superman, anyways.

although Flash maybe sexier than Superman...he is still vulnerable.

Originally posted by The Pict
Sure flash is faster but superman is indestructible Only in a mundane and conventional sense, but Flash is neither mundane nor conventional.

Superman, despite all his powers, is still a physical being in many ways constrained by physics. He moves through time linearly, he moves through space corporally, he can succumb to physical force (Doomsday), he is affected by radiation (sunlights & kryptonite), he is made of molecules and physical matter, so on and so forth. This allows Flash to dismantel him any number of ways.

- Go back in time
- Banish him to the Speed Force
- Rain a hail of Infinite Mass Punches upon him
- Fetch Kryptonite or put him under a red sun
- Phase him into the ground
etc.

Now we could argue Flash possesses any number of weaknesses while standing still, but the key point to the fight is that Flash is magnitudes upon magnitudes faster than Superman, enabling him to take advantage of any one of those weaknesses before Superman could even think of attempting to use one of Flash's.

Speed kills.

This isn't a mere "could" scenario under idealized circumstances like with Batman or- frankly- ANY rube with a chunk of Kryptonite... under those contrived scenarios, the two are always on unequal ground, Batman impossibly getting the jump on Superman and Superman not using his abilities to their utmost. Flash vs Supes is not the same, because in a case where they are equally aware, equally violent, and start at the same time, Flash is always able to win, unlike Batman w/ Kryptonite. Why?

Speed kills.

A: He is faster then him
B: Hes faster than his heat vision
C: He can vibrate through even HIS dense skin

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0086gg.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0096io.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0111wt.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0129rj.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0136tz.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0143mg.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0151km.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2209p0160kz.jpg



+

Flash did THIS to a superman level character:
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003045tf.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003056zx.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003064go.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla003073nt.jpg

=

Flash wins

Flash cannot go faster than light without entering the Speed-Force. So far, there's no evidence in comics suggesting otherwise.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Flash cannot go faster than light without entering the Speed-Force. So far, there's no evidence in comics suggesting otherwise.
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg028eh.jpg
Here, although it says "a hair's breadth short of the speed of light," he would have to have move billions of times faster than light to pull this stunt off.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Flash cannot go faster than light without entering the Speed-Force. So far, there's no evidence in comics suggesting otherwise. Wrong on multiple counts:

- Functionally speaking, as Accel points out, Flash far and away exceeds lightspeed as we know it. Whether he does literally or not is a moot point since his results are the same as FTL.

- In JLA when outracing the Zeta Beam, Superman explicitly says he can't go faster than light while Flash outright says he can.

- In Flash, despite that restriction and tension, Wally has repeatedly pushed it and skimmed the barrier to go FTL even under that writer (Waid) that created the limitation.

- Outracing Superman's heat-vision (slower than light perhaps? But Supes fans don't buy that a lot of the time and by feats alone it's certainly with in the realm of lightspeed... heck if Superman didn't think his vision was faster than himself, why would he bother trying to project it forward to catch Wally instead of catching Flash himself?)

- During the "Human Race" storyarc (again post-lightspeed "limit", Superman Blue- who as energy travels lightspeed- still deferred to Flash as the fastest thing on Earth to race for the planet's sake. Note all these are more recent which mean the limit has either be retconned or removed similar to the limits on Superman's strength.

- DCU lightspeed may be faster than our world's lightspeed... so when we claim things like Superman getting to the sun under 8 minutes exceeds lightspeed, that's only OUR lightspeed, not necessarily theirs.

well now that theirs no speed force and the only flash is jay (he only reaches speed of sound once more) i say superman

Originally posted by He-guy88
well now that theirs no speed force and the only flash is jay (he only reaches speed of sound once more) i say superman

Danny Bilson, one of the new writers for The Flash relaunch addresses the question of whether Flash will be the fastest thing in the DCU (specifically citing flying super-bricks like Superman, Black Adam, etc), his answer?

"The Flash will be the fastest man alive. Promise."

http://comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=606055&postcount=16

Jen Hilty, the new editor for The Flash, says that the Speed Force will be "more important than ever" and if you check out the preview covers at DC or Ken Lashey's (artist) blog you'll see nothing bu Speed Force FX.

damn good point but fuk it i still rekon sups makes him piss