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mmm seems fair..

Another pic.

Shaak and Agen. Agen alone was able to beat him 1 on 1 twice. Shaak could take him by herself too.

That's sad. Agen was able to beat Vos twice, but Agen got smoked by Sidious in zero point three seconds? How weak does this make Vos now?

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Another pic.

I'll counter your attack! mad

Originally posted by Deus Ex
That's sad. Agen was able to beat Vos twice, but Agen got smoked by Sidious in zero point three seconds? How weak does this make Vos now?

That's gay. Vos could take Qui-gon. Vos also knows some of Vapaad. There is no way he is weaker than Agen.

I agree. And that is a good pic. I haven't used it yet.

Originally posted by Se7in
Shaak and Agen. Agen alone was able to beat him 1 on 1 twice. Shaak could take him by herself too.
Twice? One was in Light and Dark but I recently decided Vos wasn't really trying and just ran from the battle because he couldn't hurt Agen, since he wasn't really evil like Agen believed he was. But when did he beat Vos the second time? If Agen is really better than Vos that's sad because it makes Sora Bulq seem like nothing after seeing Sidious beat Agen Kolar so easily.


But either way Agen and Shaak have this.

If only because of Shaak Ti? What style does she use?

Well, it is either Djem So or Ataru, based on her extremely kinetic motions, and affinity for wide, crowd-sized blows.

And as for the Agen Kolar comment; wrong. As darthsith19 stated, Vos only once dueled Agen, and that was never concluded. Vos simply retreated the entire duel; he was a quadruple agent for the Republic. He never intended to hurt Kolar. Although, of course, the Jedi Master didn't know this.

On the topic, ROTS made utter fools out of three of the greatest Jedi swordsman of the time. Kit Fisto, up until half-way through the Clone Wars at the least, was Obi-Wan's superior in saber combat. Even as of ROTS, he'd give Kenobi a run for his money. To be taken out by a slash, no matter the 'omg six seconds of combat' he lasted, is a disgrace to the character.

Agen Kolar was supposed to be a legendary Djem So duelist, one of the finest in the Order. Saesee Tiin I'm not so sure about, but he should certainly have been a force to be reckoned with. He led a group of capital ships in a particular space battle. I believe it was the Battle of Coruscant, but I may be mistaken. After his base ship was damaged, he led the Clone troopers into space in just their support-suits and an anti-grav pack, himself having only a helm with a small oxygen pocket. They boarded and took over the entire ship, and proceeded to destroy others in surprise attacks.

ROTS screwed with these characters. They were potentially incredible characters, Kit Fisto even moreso. And they were wiped out in seven seconds of dueling. Pathetic. Damn Nick Gillard.

Agreed. Nick Gillard is a poor battle coordinator and an arrogant person.

And he's very bias for Anakin and Sidious. You should read his interviews.

'Mace is a 9, Yoda is a 9, Obi-Wan's an 8 or so, and Sidious is a 9 (or 10). Anakin is a 9. He would have been better than Sidious if Obi-Wan hadn't messed everything up."

Recited from memory; it's in the back of the ROTS game strategy guide. I read it a few weeks ago out of curiosity. That guy is so full of himself it's ridiculous. He'd place Cin Drallig over Obi-Wan. . .

He's an Obi-Wan hater. I seriously dislike NG.

I like some of his choreographies in the prequels, but the Sidious/Masters duel was just. . . *shudder*

Well overall, I would have prefered they use the duelling choreographer for the COunt of Monte Cristo. He was very good and the fights were inventive but realistic. A far cry from NG's spinning, twirling, and ridiculously overly showy moves of no tactical use at all.

i dont see why obi is so bad and how anakin is so good, in aotc he said his power rivalled yoda's, but we all no he was high on crack when he said that...so obiwan and anakin are in my opinion equal

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Well overall, I would have prefered they use the duelling choreographer for the COunt of Monte Cristo. He was very good and the fights were inventive but realistic. A far cry from NG's spinning, twirling, and ridiculously overly showy moves of no tactical use at all.


Actually I would have prefered Ray Park (another reason they should have kept Maul alive).

NG's example of the Jedi did suck a lot. I started watching CW miniseries and I finally began to gain a respect for the PT Jedi. I mean, Shaak took on 12 Grievous bodyguards, lost her saber, and still fought them all off.

But it makes sense why 12 Jedi were able to survive against thousands of droids, while 188 others didn't. And it doesn't make NJO and pre-KotoR Jedi and Sith so unbelievable.

It does balance the playing field, which is one of the main reasons for it. It would be to hard to show their real power in the movie.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Well, it is either Djem So or Ataru, based on her extremely kinetic motions, and affinity for wide, crowd-sized blows.

And as for the Agen Kolar comment; wrong. As darthsith19 stated, Vos only once dueled Agen, and that was never concluded. Vos simply retreated the entire duel; he was a quadruple agent for the Republic. He never intended to hurt Kolar. Although, of course, the Jedi Master didn't know this.

On the topic, ROTS made utter fools out of three of the greatest Jedi swordsman of the time. Kit Fisto, up until half-way through the Clone Wars at the least, was Obi-Wan's superior in saber combat. Even as of ROTS, he'd give Kenobi a run for his money. To be taken out by a slash, no matter the 'omg six seconds of combat' he lasted, is a disgrace to the character.

Agen Kolar was supposed to be a legendary Djem So duelist, one of the finest in the Order. Saesee Tiin I'm not so sure about, but he should certainly have been a force to be reckoned with. He led a group of capital ships in a particular space battle. I believe it was the Battle of Coruscant, but I may be mistaken. After his base ship was damaged, he led the Clone troopers into space in just their support-suits and an anti-grav pack, himself having only a helm with a small oxygen pocket. They boarded and took over the entire ship, and proceeded to destroy others in surprise attacks.

ROTS screwed with these characters. They were potentially incredible characters, Kit Fisto even moreso. And they were wiped out in seven seconds of dueling. Pathetic. Damn Nick Gillard.

star wars screwed with these chars, Plo Koon is a better master than KIt Fisto, and he is underestimated, GL has no respect for these average jedi...

Oh lord. Here we go.

Akbar, have you read the Cestus Deception?

Im still reading Cestus.. why? Is Kit Fisto better than what I give him credit for?

Well, saying he's below Plo Koon is presumptuous. Is there a novel where Plo Koon does anything, btw?

novel, no.. but there are a few comics.. there might be a novel I wouldent know.

Well, I've read all the Del Rey Clone Wars novels and Plo Koon doesn't do anything nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto.

I know he is mentioned in many dark horse comics..

Hm. I am missing out on the comics. But it's so hard to gather them all at this time.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Well, saying he's below Plo Koon is presumptuous. Is there a novel where Plo Koon does anything, btw?

You going ot accuse me of steping on your toes or something, but who do we know more about, Ragnos or Padme? Who is going to win in a fight(not including nude wrestling)?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You going ot accuse me of steping on your toes or something, but who do we know more about, Ragnos or Padme? Who is going to win in a fight(not including nude wrestling)?

That is a bad analogy though. Padme always wins nekkid. It's SW fact.

And seriously, that is still a bad analogy. This is two jedi masters here of which we know relatively little. Kit fisto at least has a book with him in it. Plo Koon has a profile on Star Wars.com. It is presumptuous to say that Plo Koon whups Kit Fisto.

No not whups.
PLo Koon is mentioned in other comics, maybe books. Kit Fisto is also, but if we break it down to knowledge and experience. Plo Koon was a master and fought in wars while Kit Fisto was still training to be come a jedi knight. KIt obviously made it all up once he finally became a master and was sent on his own missions during the clone wars.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up, Faunus.

Bias for Anakin and Sidious? That's nothing compared to how bias he is for Cin Drallig.

Yeah, GG couldn't take on 5 Jedi Masters and Mace couldn't take on hundreds of Battle Droids without his lightsaber. As for Shaak Ti taking out 12 of GG's bodyguards, well, that's riduculous, IMO, but what's even more ridicukous is the way I hear she dies. I heard she is meditation and Vader just walks up to her and she turns to look at him and gets her head cut off. She should have at least put up a fight. If she was meditating she should have sensed danger coming, too.


Yeah, and also I think Plo could take out Kit. It'd be close but Plo Koon is said to be better than Qui-Gon and was a Council Master and a Jedi Master long before Kit was.

However there is actually proof and evidence to show Kit's skill and ability, ability that awed Obi-Wan himself, whereas with Koon, there is nothing.

Definately. Kit Fisto had a reputation even among jedi. Plo Koon didn't.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
However there is actually proof and evidence to show Kit's skill and ability, ability that awed Obi-Wan himself, whereas with Koon, there is nothing.
Kit's skill? He was only able to block one of Sidious swings, and that was only just. Nothing for Koon?

Plo didn't have reputition! http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/plokoon/?id=eu
The Force runs strongly in Plo Koon's family
So we know he is strong Force-wise.
He shared a long history with fellow Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and the two have fought beside each other in battle.
And I have heard he was even more powerful than Jinn.
As a Dorin, Koon naturally possessed highly developed extrasensory organs that supplement his already formidable Jedi attributes.
Now we know he's strong and his organs make him even stronger.
Koon was more martial a Jedi than most.
That also says he's physically strong.

This initiative served him well during the Stark Hyperspace Wars, when he took up the Republic banner after a great Jedi Master was killed. Koon rallied the disheartened troops to an unlikely and miraculous victory.
Miraculous victory, huh? And this was even before TPM.

Been there, read that.

First off, it was Agen Kolar who was felled by the the first attack, and Saesee by the second. Kit Fisto managed to spar with Sidious for six or seven seconds before his death. Now, not a lot, but he was up against the most powerful Darksider of the time, the one who would give even Yoda a hard fight.

Now, for that Koon info.

The Force runs strongly in Plo Koon's family

Proves nothing. He may be a well-off Jedi in terms of hereditary power, but so was Anakin. And he got screwed to pieces by his Master.

He shared a long history with fellow Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and the two have fought beside each other in battle.

Okay. . . Kit Fisto shared a history with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu; the former considered him his superior in the Cestus Deception, and it is shown well. Fisto stalemates Asajj Ventress, being defeated by a well-placed kick and two strikes. Obi-Wan however duels Ventress for moments before he is knocked flat, then hammered by repeated blows. He would have been wasted hadn't Fisto surmised enough energy to slice apart a dock with his saber. And this is after a wound to the shoulder and neck.

Anyway, if having a history of teamwork and battle with a well-known Jedi makes you good, then Kit Fisto is one of the best.

One more thing; what you 'hear' means nothing. It is what is presentable and can be made use of in a debate that matters. I wouldn't be surprised if Pllo Koon was on par with Qui-Gon. The Jedi was slain by Darth Maul. Kit Fisto gave Asajj Ventress a run for her money. Ventress would have slaughtered Obi-Wan, and guess what? Maul was cloven in two by a Padawan of that same Obi-Wan. So I'll let Koon have the superiority over Jinn. Really means little.

As a Dorin, Koon naturally possessed highly developed extrasensory organs that supplement his already formidable Jedi attributes

Again, I say 'okay. . . '. It is apparent you have yet to read Cestus Deception. Kit Fisto's tentacles pick up electronic impulses and environmental statistics, processing them through his mind and allowing him to quickly adapt the best possible strategy for dealing with something, effectively providing him with increased awareness and reflexes.

And your 'strong' comment. Try rethinking that. Your organs don't make you stronger. That's like saying I'm smart, and then I factor a brain and I'm incredible. You do not add power due to organs.

Koon was more martial a Jedi than most.

Again, read the Cestus Deception. Kit Fisto is described as 'a martial hurricane'. He literally moves his body in three directions at once, evading three attackers while flattening two unluck X'ing with jaw-cracking swipes. Kit Fisto is one of the most martial Jedi the ever was. He's fast agile, and obviously incredibly strong. Obi-Wan nearly trips over himself watching Fisto's grace and power.

This initiative served him well during the Stark Hyperspace Wars, when he took up the Republic banner after a great Jedi Master was killed. Koon rallied the disheartened troops to an unlikely and miraculous victory.

So he's a decent general. Kit Fisto has led and won his every campaign on several planets. Has Plo Koon done anything like that during the Clone Wars? The Stark Hyperspace War was two children fighting over toys compared to the Clone Wars.

"Miraculous victory, huh?"

Two words. Glee. Anselm.

You did your homework well. I didn't remember as much of the Cestus Deception obviously as you do, but I looked that up. It's accurate.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Been there, read that.

First off, it was Agen Kolar who was felled by the the first attack, and Saesee by the second. Kit Fisto managed to spar with Sidious for six or seven seconds before his death. Now, not a lot, but he was up against the most powerful Darksider of the time, the one who would give even Yoda a hard fight.

Now, for that Koon info.

The Force runs strongly in Plo Koon's family

Proves nothing. He may be a well-off Jedi in terms of hereditary power, but so was Anakin. And he got screwed to pieces by his Master.

He shared a long history with fellow Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and the two have fought beside each other in battle.

Okay. . . Kit Fisto shared a history with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu; the former considered him his superior in the Cestus Deception, and it is shown well. Fisto stalemates Asajj Ventress, being defeated by a well-placed kick and two strikes. Obi-Wan however duels Ventress for moments before he is knocked flat, then hammered by repeated blows. He would have been wasted hadn't Fisto surmised enough energy to slice apart a dock with his saber. And this is after a wound to the shoulder and neck.

Anyway, if having a history of teamwork and battle with a well-known Jedi makes you good, then Kit Fisto is one of the best.

One more thing; what you 'hear' means nothing. It is what is presentable and can be made use of in a debate that matters. I wouldn't be surprised if Pllo Koon was on par with Qui-Gon. The Jedi was slain by Darth Maul. Kit Fisto gave Asajj Ventress a run for her money. Ventress would have slaughtered Obi-Wan, and guess what? Maul was cloven in two by a Padawan of that same Obi-Wan. So I'll let Koon have the superiority over Jinn. Really means little.

As a Dorin, Koon naturally possessed highly developed extrasensory organs that supplement his already formidable Jedi attributes

Again, I say 'okay. . . '. It is apparent you have yet to read Cestus Deception. Kit Fisto's tentacles pick up electronic impulses and environmental statistics, processing them through his mind and allowing him to quickly adapt the best possible strategy for dealing with something, effectively providing him with increased awareness and reflexes.

And your 'strong' comment. Try rethinking that. Your organs don't make you stronger. That's like saying I'm smart, and then I factor a brain and I'm incredible. You do not add power due to organs.

Koon was more martial a Jedi than most.

Again, read the Cestus Deception. Kit Fisto is described as 'a martial hurricane'. He literally moves his body in three directions at once, evading three attackers while flattening two unluck X'ing with jaw-cracking swipes. Kit Fisto is one of the most martial Jedi the ever was. He's fast agile, and obviously incredibly strong. Obi-Wan nearly trips over himself watching Fisto's grace and power.

This initiative served him well during the Stark Hyperspace Wars, when he took up the Republic banner after a great Jedi Master was killed. Koon rallied the disheartened troops to an unlikely and miraculous victory.

So he's a decent general. Kit Fisto has led and won his every campaign on several planets. Has Plo Koon done anything like that during the Clone Wars? The Stark Hyperspace War was two children fighting over toys compared to the Clone Wars.

"Miraculous victory, huh?"

Two words. Glee. Anselm.

Damn...

Nice post Faunus.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
star wars screwed with these chars, Plo Koon is a better master than KIt Fisto, and he is underestimated, GL has no respect for these average jedi... exactly y does everyone hate plo koon he's not that bad afterall and he is good enough to be on the council isnt he

Well, we dont know if Plo was respected among jedu masters on the council so you cant say he wasnt.

And you can't say he was. Simple.

BUt you also cant say he wasn't

Well, which would you choose? Someone you know is good or someone who might be good?

Agen can do it alone. He defeated Vos alone once and Shaak Ti>Agen. Yeah Quinlan gets slaughtered. Either on the Team can beat him quickly 1 VS 1.

Yep, this is basically a slaughterhouse.

Poor Quinlan...

Originally posted by WollfMyth
Agen can do it alone. He defeated Vos alone once and Shaak Ti>Agen. Yeah Quinlan gets slaughtered. Either on the Team can beat him quickly 1 VS 1. yeah..... I'm pretty sure that Quinlan wasn't fighting to the best of his ability when he fought agen. As a matter of fact, Quinlan was running for more than half of that fight. He was a quadruple agent for the republic, the jedi sent agen (unbeknownst to him of course) so that it would truly look like Quinlan had gone rogue, and quinlan's mission didn't involve hurting agen. We can also see how good vos is when he gets serious (defeating master kruhkt with basically a gesture and beating sora bulq). We know that vos will lose this fight, but please don't act like he was fighting for real when he took on agen.