Should I forgive Germany?

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Whirlysplatt
I am a Gypsy, part of one of the main ethnic groups targeted for extermination on racial grounds by the germans during the second world war -

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/holcaust.htm

Am I wrong to still feel anger when a German says this can be justified?

Alpha Centauri
Should you forgive a country who by a large majority have nothing to do with what happened in the 1940's?

-AC

Victor Von Doom
It's silly holding a grudge against people not involved.

You are saying being angry at people who think it was right, though? I think everyone would feel anger towards that.

amity75
You can't feel anger towards modern day Germany. There are probably more Nazis in the stands of Millwall FC than in Berlin.

Alpha Centauri
Gotta love those East Londoners who hate Germany (for reasons they don't know) and claim that it's because they were "evil", then go on rants about how many "shit" ethnic groups there are here and how great it'd be if they were gone.

-AC

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by amity75
You can't feel anger towards modern day Germany. There are probably more Nazis in the stands of Millwall FC than in Berlin.

Probably but we are trying to stop that sad trying and failing sad reread the thread starter though I give specific context

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Gotta love those East Londoners who hate Germany (for reasons they don't know) and claim that it's because they were "evil", then go on rants about how many "shit" ethnic groups there are here and how great it'd be if they were gone.

-AC

No AC you really haven't but I understand what you mean

GCG
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I am a Gypsy, part of one of the main ethnic groups targeted for extermination on racial grounds by the germans during the second world war -

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/holcaust.htm

Am I wrong to still feel anger when a German says this can be justified?

Your problem lies exactly there. Its not Germany you are talking about, but Nazis.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by GCG
Your problem lies exactly there. Its not Germany you are talking about, but Nazis.

half right, What if a modern German says it can be justified and is not a Nazi?

Lana
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
half right, What if a modern German says it can be justified and is not a Nazi?

Then they're an idiot. There are people of all nationalities who think stuff like that, not just Germans.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Lana
Then they're an idiot. There are people of all nationalities who think stuff like that, not just Germans.

agreed what if that same person said it was not an evil act - does it make it worse they are German?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
half right, What if a modern German says it can be justified and is not a Nazi?

Making the same stupid accusations in a new thread STILL doesn't make you right. Bardock, nor anyone who agreed with his statements, said the Germans were justified.

GCG
Yeah ; Lana is right. These people exist all around the world. You cant stigmatise Germany.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Lana
Then they're an idiot. There are people of all nationalities who think stuff like that, not just Germans.


Before you add fuel to his silly little fire, read the thread and see if ANYONE said that the Nazis were justified in implementing the holocaust.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t367044.html

GCG
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
agreed what if that same person said it was not an evil act - does it make it worse they are German?

You really dont want to forgive Germany now do you ? embarrasment

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Should I forgive Germany?

No one cares if you do, or don't. Least of all, the entire country of Germany.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
No AC you really haven't but I understand what you mean

If you did, that comment wouldn't be neccessary.

-AC

Lana
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Before you add fuel to his silly little fire, read the thread and see if ANYONE said that the Nazis were justified in implementing the holocaust.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t367044.html

I'll take a look at that thread.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No one cares if you do, or don't. Least of all, the entire country of Germany.

and your angry because I made a distinction between race and sexuality I stand by, I also feel no one should be perssecuted for there sexuality. Being Gay is quite natural for people who are Gay and should hold no stigma.

But my sexuality does not define me - my race and culture does, I am English but | am also Romany

The Highlord
Yes you should forgive germany and its ppl that live there today, its like should we forgive the US for having the africans for slaves? yes we should cause most of them are not racist anymore, and most germans are not Nazis anymore, some are yeah but not the country in whole, infact many germans are ashamed over the Nazi times

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
and your angry because I made a distinction between race and sexuality I stand by, I also feel no one should be perssecuted for there sexuality. Being Gay is quite natural for people who are Gay and should hold no stigma.

But my sexuality does not define me - my race and culture does, I am English but | am also Romany


I'm not mad that you differentiate. I might be mad the germans didn't, but not you. Gypsies are also no different genetically than any other human being, gay, black, jew, etc.

My sexuality doesn't come close to defining me. But, you are defining yourself as a gypsy....so, how do you resemble the gypsies of the day in the '30s and 40's? And, how important could your "race" be...when you aren't even spelling it correctly?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm not mad that you differentiate. I might be mad the germans didn't, but not you. Gypsies are also no different genetically than any other human being, gay, black, jew, etc.

My sexuality doesn't come close to defining me. But, you are defining yourself as a gypsy....so, how do you resemble the gypsies of the day in the '30s and 40's?

thats how we spell it!

If you understood Rom you would know, however I will endeavour to explain. I speak the language to a point, it is a South England dialect but some of the words date back a thousand years, as a child I went travelling often with the elders which is still common in England and learnt the old ways. Our culture is still very much alive in the UK andf I share this and a memory handed down of a thousand years of persecution, in many countries including Scotland and France it was legal to shoot Gypsies up until the last century.

I am descended from Indians as are all Rom my blood is mixed with Irish tinker as is common in uk travellers. We are still persecuted.

Capt_Fantastic
So, is that why you have yet to spell it correctly?

Even the website you reference has yet to spell it the way you have been spelling it. Granted, I haven't read it all, but not once have I seen it spelled the way you have. Neither Rom, nor Romany, are spelled the way you have been.

I keep seeing it as Roma and Romani

GCG
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
thats how we spell it!

in many countries including Scotland and France it was legal to shoot Gypsies up until the last century.....

It was legal to shoot ANYBODY who trespassed.


Originally posted by Whirlysplatt

We are still persecuted.

what and how are you persecuted ? by zee germans ?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
So, is that why you have yet to spell it correctly?

Even the website you reference has yet to spell it the way you have been spelling it. Granted, I haven't read it all, but not once have I seen it spelled the way you have. Neither Rom, nor Romany, are spelled the way you have been.

I keep seeing it as Roma and Romani

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Romany+gypsy

220 000 sites

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by GCG
It was legal to shoot ANYBODY who trespassed.




what and how are you persecuted ? by zee germans ?

no special laws existed for gypsies

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Romany+gypsy

Capt F is very wrong about the spelling do you wish to debate this sensibly

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Romany+gypsy

220 000 sites


"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,870,000 for romani . (0.15 seconds"


And beyond that, the very page you're referencing doesn't even spell it the way you do.


Look, beyond that, what do you want the Germans of today to do? What?...do you want your own country in the middle east? The entire reason that I'm arguing with you, is that you've gone so far as to begin another thread based on your total misunderstanding (and refusal to attempt to understand) of another thread.

Whirlysplatt
A little on us and present persecution in the UK education system

http://preschool.atalink.co.uk/articles/51

EsteemedLeader
So then you killed him right?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,870,000 for romani . (0.15 seconds"


And beyond that, the very page you're referencing doesn't even spell it the way you do.


Look, beyond that, what do you want the Germans of today to do? What?...do you want your own country in the middle east? The entire reason that I'm arguing with you, is that you've gone so far as to begin another thread based on your total misunderstanding (and refusal to attempt to understand) of another thread.
your ignorance of my culture is highlighted by this post

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series6/gypsy_travels.shtml

The BBC spells it as I do its the English Kent/London Romany spelling my ignorant friend, I feel sorry your racism is highlighted by your refusal to spell my race as most english sites will, as I said I am English Romany.

Colossus21
never forgive and never forget

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
your ignorance of my culture is highlighted by this post

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series6/gypsy_travels.shtml

The BBC spells it as I do its the English Kent/London Romany spelling my ignorant friend, I feel sorry your racism is highlighted by your refusal to spell my race as most english sites will, as I said I am English Romany.

Do you also feel sorry for the racism of the people who authored the very page you yourself used as reference?

Spelling aside, even though I brought it up, you're still not answering my question. What do you want the people of Germany to do as reparations for the presecution of the gypsies?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Do you also feel sorry for the racism of the people who authored the very page you yourself used as reference?

Spelling aside, even though I brought it up, you're still not answering my question. What do you want the people of Germany to do as reparations for the presecution of the gypsies?

Stop saying it wasn't Evil and admit it was

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Colossus21
never forgive and never forget

That's the reason the world is how it is.

-AC

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Stop saying it wasn't Evil and admit it was

Stop mis-spelling it!


*for everyone else: I hope you all realize I'm distracting him with this spelling crap...because this thread is such shit, that it deserves to be derailed.

Colossus21
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's the reason the world is how it is.

-AC

then it should be that way....

Alpha Centauri
I suggest suicide.....no there's no joke, I suggest it.

-AC

Colossus21
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I suggest suicide.....no there's no joke, I suggest it.

-AC

then go ahead ...and tell me how it is

Spelljammer
There is no excuse for what the nazis did, none. And you have a right to hate those evil people from then, and be pissed off and ignoramuses who don't realise thier atrocities commited of now. That's your God given right. Not as a gypsy, not as a German, but as a human being.

Ofcourse if you ask me stupid people are worse then evil people. But that's an entirely differant issue..

Capt_Fantastic
THANK GOD! Spelljammer is here to share his profound insight on talking out of his ass!

Before you start running your mouth, go and read teh holocaust thread, and you'll see this guy is making shit up.

Inspectah Deck
Forgive Jamaica

Imperial_Samura
Throughout history three groups have been treated pretty badly by everyone - the Jews, the Kurds and the Gypsies by many major powers at various times, not counting more recent things like what has happened to the Armenians and so forth. But people don't seem to say can I forgive Italy because the Romans oppressed, or England because it oppressed in the middle ages and so on.

History is indeed full of terrible acts and condemnation based upon the concept of race is wrong. Any person who says there should be different standards for people based upon sex or race or whatever is wrong. If a German person out and says the Holocaust was right then in my mind he is a fool, not because he is German but because he holds a view that is wrong. If an American or Australian or whatever says it then my view is the same.

Should you forgive Germany? Yes. The Germany of WWII is gone. The Nazis regime is gone. The people of Germany today (most of them anyway) had nothing to do with what happened, and from the Germans I know, as a nation, Germany still feels shame about it's past despite the flow of time. It's important to remember the past, to insure bad things don't happen again, but nothing is gained by holding a grudge against people who simply have the name of the nation that did wrong. The Germans of today aren't somehow implicit or guilty of of the crime of the past, as such modern day Germans shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers and so forth.

soleran30
Wow Capt_Fantastic if yeah don't like the thread why ruin another man's thunder........

So before you start telling people where to go and what to look please go back reread our previous thread and spend a little time to think about the response and not just react dude roll eyes (sarcastic)

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
THANK GOD! Spelljammer is here to share his profound insight on talking out of his ass!

Before you start running your mouth, go and read teh holocaust thread, and you'll see this guy is making shit up.


Your just upset becuase I do not equate sexuality with race. You dislike me because I do not see Gay as a race, or defining characteristic. Its a bit sad really.

As for the spelling I find that offensive you wish to attack my nations spelling of my people.

Sorry the BBC spells it that way as do most UK sites.

C21 is right never forgive and never forget.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Colossus21
then go ahead ...and tell me how it is

Sometimes he thinks suicide is the answer.

When he's feeling all depressed like.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Wow Capt_Fantastic if yeah don't like the thread why ruin another man's thunder........

So before you start telling people where to go and what to look please go back reread our previous thread and spend a little time to think about the response and not just react dude roll eyes (sarcastic)

The entire point of the thread is to react. You can't have awell thought out response, when you're responding to shit.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Sometimes he thinks suicide is the answer.

When he's feeling all depressed like.

Threwit in the sEA.

-AC

Colossus21
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Sometimes he thinks suicide is the answer.

When he's feeling all depressed like.

Good for him..he is weak thats why....

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Your just upset becuase I do not equate sexuality with race. You dislike me because I do not see Gay as a race, or defining characteristic. Its a bit sad really.

As for the spelling I find that offensive you wish to attack my nations spelling of my people.




No, I dislike you because you have no concept of what you're talking about.

As for spelling, thats just symantics...as I have already pointed out.

soleran30
absolutley however if you don't like someone's thread its ok to "react" and put them down.......hmm interesting

Whirlysplat to err is human
to forgive is divine!

So anywho never forget thats for sure however don't be a hater thats how it all started

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I dislike you because you have no concept of what you're talking about.

As for spelling, thats just symantics...as I have already pointed out.

Yes proving you have nothing to contribute.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Your just upset becuase I do not equate sexuality with race. You dislike me because I do not see Gay as a race, or defining characteristic. Its a bit sad really.

As for the spelling I find that offensive you wish to attack my nations spelling of my people.

Sorry the BBC spells it that way as do most UK sites.

C21 is right never forgive and never forget.

Firstly I think the whole concept of "race"is a bit silly. A person is a person is a person. We are all humans. And I don't think AC would be annoyed by not classing "gay as a race" because it's not.

And I have to disagree with the whole "never forgive". What is achived by that? Nothing. And where does it end? Would you want your kids, or your kids kids not "forgiving"German because of something that happened 50, 60 100 or whatever years ago? Eventually that would become just as racist. I will concede you can hate the memory or whatever of the Nazis, Hitler and the rest, but they are not Germany, there were many Germans who didn't agree then, and certainly they don't represent Germany now. Nothing is gained by putting the two in the same camp.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by soleran30
absolutley however if you don't like someone's thread its ok to "react" and put them down.......hmm interesting

Whirlysplat to err is human
to forgive is divine!

So anywho never forget thats for sure however don't be a hater thats how it all started


You cannot forgive the act or forget the lessons, the people of today if they do not say things like it wasn't evil or it can be justified, well thats a different matter.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
So, is that why you have yet to spell it correctly?

Even the website you reference has yet to spell it the way you have been spelling it. Granted, I haven't read it all, but not once have I seen it spelled the way you have. Neither Rom, nor Romany, are spelled the way you have been.

I keep seeing it as Roma and Romani

So how did you make assumptions

soleran30
Whirly I am not there so its not my choice but its your life......live with anger or move past it but angery people always live in the same pattern violence begets violence anger begets anger someone has to break the loop

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Firstly I think the whole concept of "race"is a bit silly. A person is a person is a person. We are all humans. And I don't think AC would be annoyed by not classing "gay as a race" because it's not.

And I have to disagree with the whole "never forgive". What is achived by that? Nothing. And where does it end? Would you want your kids, or your kids kids not "forgiving"German because of something that happened 50, 60 100 or whatever years ago? Eventually that would become just as racist. I will concede you can hate the memory or whatever of the Nazis, Hitler and the rest, but they are not Germany, there were many Germans who didn't agree then, and certainly they don't represent Germany now. Nothing is gained by putting the two in the same camp.

Never forgive the act or forget the lessons to be learnt.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
So how did you make assumptions

Indeed the BBC spell it Romany as does local government http://preschool.atalink.co.uk/articles/51

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
So how did you make assumptions

Exactly!...I made no assumptions

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
absolutley however if you don't like someone's thread its ok to "react" and put them down.......hmm interesting

Whirlysplat to err is human
to forgive is divine!

So anywho never forget thats for sure however don't be a hater thats how it all started


Where did I put him down? In which post did I attack him personally?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I dislike you because you have no concept of what you're talking about.

As for spelling, thats just symantics...as I have already pointed out.

its not symantics its ignorance, yes your posts are difficult to respond to as they are fillibuster without foundation.

Romany is how the Government of the UK spells it.

Inspectah Deck
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
its not symantics its ignorance, yes your posts are difficult to respond to as they are fillibuster without foundation.

Romany is how the Government of the UK spells it.

laughing out loud Fillibuster

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Never forgive the act or forget the lessons to be learnt.

Which is pretty much what I am saying. Your question is "Should I forgive Germany?" No body is asking you to forgive the Nazis, but I don't see the justification of "not forgiving"the Germany of today which has nothing to do with the Nazi party, and ultimatly I will say that the Germans of today and tomorrow shouldn't be punished for the "act" for all time to come.

And I agree, never forget the lessons to be learnt, and there is a big one from WWII about pointless hate and so forth.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Where did I put him down? In which post did I attack him personally?

Quite a lot actually, you implied I could not spell my own race then refused to admit you were wrong when the UK spelling was shown to you.

You implied I was stupid in several posts.

Your racism is obvious.

sad sad mate, very sad

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
its not symantics its ignorance, yes your posts are difficult to respond to as they are fillibuster without foundation.

Romany is how the Government of the UK spells it.


I'm ignorant? How do you use the term filibuster to describe this situation? Do you even know what filibuster means?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Which is pretty much what I am saying. Your question is "Should I forgive Germany?" No body is asking you to forgive the Nazis, but I don't see the justification of "not forgiving"the Germany of today which has nothing to do with the Nazi party, and ultimatly I will say that the Germans of today and tomorrow shouldn't be punished for the "act" for all time to come.

And I agree, never forget the lessons to be learnt, and there is a big one from WWII about pointless hate and so forth.

do you think I should forgive a modern German who says the acts were justified and not evil.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Quite a lot actually, you implied I could not spell my own race then refused to admit you were wrong when the UK spelling was shown to you.

You implied I was stupid in several posts.

Your racism is obvious.

sad sad mate, very sad


I didn't only imply that you couldn't spell it, I outright accused you of it. In fact, AGAIN, you referenced a site that hasn't spelled it the same way you do.

Fine, there are several different spellings for it. Get over it. I'll concede that.

But you keep PMing me, accusing me of being racist. And as I told you in that PM, the only race I hate in this case are those people who display their own ignorance of both the human language and simple concepts like "point of view".

soleran30
Whether you should or not whirly you have a strong mindset not to at the moment.........or you at least appear to have that stance

Last time i checked govt isn't always correct. Not everyone in Germany feels the same way so to hold a biased opinion of a people due to a current beaurocracy well we all know where that leads so yes look past the current view just don't turn your back on it

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm ignorant? How do you use the term filibuster to describe this situation? Do you even know what filibuster means?

yes I do - your point is?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
yes I do - your point is?


Umm.....that you're not using it correctly.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
do you think I should forgive a modern German who says the acts were justified and not evil.

Such a person does not speak for all Germans. And there are a fare number of such people everywhere. England. The US. Australia. As I said previously it is their views that should be looked at, not their nationality. Such a person in my view is a fool. The fact they are German has nothing to do with it. The way you respond to them is your own, but they should not symbolise all Germans, because most Germans are not like that. Forgive, hate them, pity them or laugh at them, what ever is right by you, but it must be remembered that they speak for themselves, not all Germans, just as Bin Laden doesn't speak for all Muslims, Bush for all Americans, Mugabe for all Africans etc.

soleran30
Oh and I wasn't aware that there was a human language we are all adept with Capt_Fantastic.

What language is this human language so I may learn it as well as you do........k yes

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Such a person does not speak for all Germans. And there are a fare number of such people everywhere. England. The US. Australia. As I said previously it is their views that should be looked at, not their nationality. Such a person in my view is a fool. The fact they are German has nothing to do with it. The way you respond to them is your own, but they should not symbolise all Germans, because most Germans are not like that. Forgive, hate them, pity them or laugh at them, what ever is right by you, but it must be remembered that they speak for themselves, not all Germans, just as Bin Laden doesn't speak for all Muslims, Bush for all Americans, Mugabe for all Africans etc.

He's talking about Bardock. Look over the last few pages of the holocaust thread, you'll see that Whirly is making this up. No one said the holocaust was justified.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
He's talking about Bardock. Look over the last few pages of the holocaust thread, you'll see that Whirly is making this up. No one said the holocaust was justified.

Soleran came from that thread smile your lost aren't you

Not so fantastic capt, please I wish to learn your language also.

Hit_and_Miss
If you can't forgive people for there sins what right do you have to ask forgivenness from others when you sin???

What religion are you???

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Oh and I wasn't aware that there was a human language we are all adept with Capt_Fantastic.

What language is this human language so I may learn it as well as you do........k yes

WTF are you talking about? Again, I don't understand you.


If you're talking about filibuster, the term means what it means, in any language.

To filibuster is to prolong a debate, as to delay a vote on the subject at hand. It's a common term used by politicians. That's not going on here. If he wants everyone to 'vote' on whether or not he should forgive roll eyes (sarcastic) the German people, then he can post a poll, just like the rest of us.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Soleran came from that thread smile your lost aren't you

Not so fantastic capt, please I wish to learn your language also.


Yeah, thats why I quoted Imperial Samurai in my post.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
He's talking about Bardock. Look over the last few pages of the holocaust thread, you'll see that Whirly is making this up. No one said the holocaust was justified.

Ah, I see. Thankyou.

soleran30
LOL no Capt_Fantastic in a previous thread you said you hate the ignorance of both the "human language" and "point of view" I was jabbing at you becuase I assumed you meant English cuz last time I checked my "universal translator" there isn't a language defined as "human" Anyway Down with Ignorance long live "The Forgive" BAM Happy Dance

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
LOL no Capt_Fantastic in a previous thread you said you hate the ignorance of both the "human language" and "point of view" I was jabbing at you becuase I assumed you meant English cuz last time I checked my "universal translator" there isn't a language defined as "human" Anyway Down with Ignorance long live "The Forgive" BAM Happy Dance


Once again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Please, try to make yourself more clear! I can't follow you, ever.

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
WTF are you talking about? Again, I don't understand you.


If you're talking about filibuster, the term means what it means, in any language.

To filibuster is to prolong a debate, as to delay a vote on the subject at hand. It's a common term used by politicians. That's not going on here. If he wants everyone to 'vote' on whether or not he should forgive roll eyes (sarcastic) the German people, then he can post a poll, just like the rest of us.

I used the term fillibuster to mean your post was stopping my ideas without any of your own. Its how its really used today.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I used the term fillibuster to mean your post was stopping my ideas without any of your own. Its how its really used today.


http://www.c-span.org/guide/congress/glossary/filibust.htm

"A Filibuster is the term used for an extended debate in the Senate which has the effect of preventing a vote.
Senate rules contain no motion to force a vote. A vote occurs only once debate ends.

The term comes from the early 19th century Spanish and Portuguese pirates, "filibusteros", who held ships hostage for ransom"


I don't just make this shit up, you know.

soleran30
ok Capt_Fantastic I will try again here

you said you hate ignorance of the "human language"

THERE is no Such thing as Human Language to master

other then that I am picking up what you're putting down Captain!

Whirlysplatt
Look it up on Cambridge it means stopping a law going through with a speech, your speech is longer than required offering nothing, stopping others ideas. You really are lost.

Sad little racist

Imperial_Samura
Meh, I just think Filibuster sounds like a funny word.

And maths is the universal language, and technically is could be argued that all languages are the "human language" as many have there basis in a single linguistic ancestor. Words may sound different from one dialect to another, but the meaning of a word in one might not change to another, despite the different vocab.

And I don't thing we need to be calling each other racist. A difference of opinion exists, true, but I haven't seen anything that could be considered racist.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
ok Capt_Fantastic I will try again here

you said you hate ignorance of the "human language"

THERE is no Such thing as Human Language to master

other then that I am picking up what you're putting down Captain!

Where did I use the term "human language"? Point it out to me, because I'm not finding it. I'm not saying I wouldn't have used the term, but I would use it in context.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Look it up on Cambridge it means stopping a law going through with a speech, your speech is longer than required offering nothing, stopping others ideas. You really are lost.

Sad little racist


I'm sure you think callingme a racist is bothersome to me...but it really isn't. Everyone who reads either of the threads, knows you're full of shit.

My accusation of ignorance, however, is apparent to all.

(except maybe this other guy, whose posts I can't understand)

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Where did I use the term "human language"? Point it out to me, because I'm not finding it. I'm not saying I wouldn't have used the term, but I would use it in context.

Very intollerant, doesn't understand flowery language and use of words root meaning in another context, really not very bright, and I have language difficulties (true actually).

You really are a nasty little racist

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm sure you think callingme a racist is bothersome to me...but it really isn't. Everyone who reads either of the threads, knows you're full of shit.

My accusation of ignorance, however, is apparent to all.

(except maybe this other guy, whose posts I can't understand)

yes they will and see you for what you are laughing out loud

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Very intollerant, doesn't understand flowery language and use of words root meaning in another context, really not very bright, and I have language difficulties (true actually).

You really are a nasty little racist


Your dyslexia doesn't excuse your ignorance.

Besides, why quote a post that isn't directed at you? Is that other guy your sock?....for shame Whirly, for shame. It suddenly makes sense that that guy accused me of insulting you...because I've only insulted you in PMs.

soleran30
Time for another thread for language Samurismile Yes all dialects however humans as a totality do not have a universal Language accepted and understood by all.

Capt Fantastic I am not very good at doing the quotes and all. I have posted more today then in my entire life so I don't know the intricices of how to use the boards all that well. Either way it doesn't matter I don't have any animosity I was just trying to be a little light hearted with a touch of sarcasm......

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Time for another thread for language Samurismile Yes all dialects however humans as a totality do not have a universal Language accepted and understood by all.

Capt Fantastic I am not very good at doing the quotes and all. I have posted more today then in my entire life so I don't know the intricices of how to use the boards all that well. Either way it doesn't matter I don't have any animosity I was just trying to be a little light hearted with a touch of sarcasm......

You forgot to answer my question. Where did I use the term human language?

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Your dyslexia doesn't excuse your ignorance.

Besides, why quote a post that isn't directed at you? Is that other guy your sock?....for shame Whirly, for shame. It suddenly makes sense that that guy accused me of insulting you...because I've only insulted you in PMs.

I never sock, you actually have insulted me by inference throughout this thread, no the other guy like Colossus 21 and inspectah deck are just people posting, the imperial guy is sensible a`nd makes sense he contributes, you do not.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I never sock, you actually have insulted me by inference throughout this thread, no the other guy like Colossus 21 and inspectah deck are just people posting, the imperial guy is sensible a`nd makes sense he contributes, you do not.


No one is talking about them.


I'm talking about Soleran30. And I'm not responsible for your assumptions. If you were insulted by something I said, that's your understanding of the situation, or lack thereof.

soleran30
Grrr maybe Whirly can just do a quote or however that works from your post on page 4.

So the answer Capt_FAntastic is somewhere on page 4. That sounds like a find waldo answer sorry but like I said I do not know how to use that "quote" feature you guys keep using and like you did of my previous post

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No one is talking about them.


I'm talking about Soleran30. And I'm not responsible for your assumptions. If you were insulted by something I said, that's your understanding of the situation, or lack thereof.


roll eyes (sarcastic)

He's lost anyway back to the thread -

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Grrr maybe Whirly can just do a quote or however that works from your post on page 4.

So the answer Capt_FAntastic is somewhere on page 4. That sounds like a find waldo answer sorry but like I said I do not know how to use that "quote" feature you guys keep using and like you did of my previous post


Oh, lol

I got ya.

soleran30
Wow well whirly if we can accomodate all pieces of this thread now linguistically speaking we should have this conversation in a south german dialect refrencing to another thread and at the same time you should be teaching me Roma!

soleran30
Page 4 of this thread Capt_Fantastic sorry I thought that was assumed since I didn't reference to another thread.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Grrr maybe Whirly can just do a quote or however that works from your post on page 4.

So the answer Capt_FAntastic is somewhere on page 4. That sounds like a find waldo answer sorry but like I said I do not know how to use that "quote" feature you guys keep using and like you did of my previous post


And, all you have to do is use the very obvious "quote" button.

soleran30
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I didn't only imply that you couldn't spell it, I outright accused you of it. In fact, AGAIN, you referenced a site that hasn't spelled it the same way you do.

Fine, there are several different spellings for it. Get over it. I'll concede that.

But you keep PMing me, accusing me of being racist. And as I told you in that PM, the only race I hate in this case are those people who display their own ignorance of both the human language and simple concepts like "point of view".

Well that was good for a chuckle call me Captain Obvious......Capt Fantastic but still the human language..........is this similat to klinganesesmile Thanks for ultimetly telling me how to quote seriouslysmile

Whirlysplatt
Originally posted by soleran30
Well that was good for a chuckle call me Captain Obvious......Capt Fantastic but still the human language..........is this similat to klinganesesmile Thanks for ultimetly telling me how to quote seriouslysmile

Can you say Owned Capt smile

Whirlysplatt
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I didn't only imply that you couldn't spell it, I outright accused you of it. In fact, AGAIN, you referenced a site that hasn't spelled it the same way you do.

Fine, there are several different spellings for it. Get over it. I'll concede that.

But you keep PMing me, accusing me of being racist. And as I told you in that PM, the only race I hate in this case are those people who display their own ignorance of both the human language and simple concepts like "point of view".


posted by Soleran30

Well that was good for a chuckle call me Captain Obvious......Capt Fantastic but still the human language..........is this similat to klinganese Thanks for ultimetly telling me how to quote seriously

Posted by Whirly


Definately owned smile

he was very pretentious, but not very fantastic it turns out sad

-back to the topic

soleran30
Yeah kinda funny

FeceMan
No one gives a shit if you forgive Germany. Germans won't carry. Germany, as a whole, won't care. Carry on a grudge if you won't--no one is going to scratch his or her ass with the idea that your opinion actually matters.

Yeah, I'm pissed as hell right now.

Hit_and_Miss
I'll ask again...

If you can't forgive people for there sins what right do you have to ask forgivenness from others when you sin???

What religion are you???

finti
Forgive germany, well what about all those who sided with Germany the likes of Austria, , Italy, Japan, man to even raise this question is so far out there it have to be consider laughable.
Not to forgive Germany and its allies for what happen then would be the same as not forgive your ancestor for emigrating out of Northern India and by doing so creating this ethnic minority group in around Europe that was hunted by the Nazi regime.

Jargon343
Hey Amiti75, that Cliffy B. in your sig?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I am a Gypsy, part of one of the main ethnic groups targeted for extermination on racial grounds by the germans during the second world war -

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/holcaust.htm

Am I wrong to still feel anger when a German says this can be justified?

No, please, by god don't forgive us.....I mean we are really really evil...just yesterday I burned some gypsies again...wait a second...that never happened....holy shit...I never killed anyone.....my god......so I tell you...you really don't have to forgive germany...I really don't care because I and 99% of my countries population had nothing to do with what you think you have some right to forgive us for.....oh by the way...you are an idiot...not cause you are a gypsy , I am not a racist...jsut because you are dumb as a stone ....have a nice day, sucker smile

finti
Fritz, you wicked wicked German

Bardock42
Originally posted by finti
Fritz, you wicked wicked German

Oh Vell, zats just my opinion, or?

Bicnarok

soleran30
Bicnarok I understand what you meant with the American Indian thing and at first they were a conquered people that those invading Europeans let live after they caught a beat down it wasn't until years after treaties were signed that Govt had a big part to play in their downfall without them being able to protect themselves.....

Anyway so my point is the American Indians although a travesty isn't what Germany did.......

fini
yeah but Germany today IS NOT the germany of the 40's. I have a friend from germany and he hesistates to tell anyone he's from Germany. He is sooo ashamed of its past. Especially seeing how cosmopolitan it is now.

I would hate the government and other movements of that time, but not the country. IT just happens to be the loacation of where the hate originated at the time. If you want someone to hate, hate the stupid people( if u want to call them that) that still believe in the prejudice of those years.

And to add, with the american indian thing, It is still bad. They are still treated poorly( not AS horrible as before) and with prejudice, in THIER own land. They were there first, its their land. they shouldn't be treated like some third class citizen.

finti
no one should

Bardock42
Originally posted by finti
no one should
except for finti.....

soleran30
In the USA Indians are given their OWN land. Some Indian tribes actually have their own nations established with their own flags and speak their own language. Most conquererd people are made to be slaves not given huge plots of land to partially govern themselves.

And still you are correct no one SHOULD be treated like some thrid class citizen.

Also thats a shame Germans cannot take pride in their country. The Holocaust certainly wasn't their only history or their entire history by a long shot.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
In the USA Indians are given their OWN land. Some Indian tribes actually have their own nations established with their own flags and speak their own language. Most conquererd people are made to be slaves not given huge plots of land to partially govern themselves.



Their OWN land?! The whole frickin' continent was theirs!

Israel, anyone?

Or, how about 40 acres and a mule?

And, I hope you're not saying the Native Americans were well compensated for their troubles!

soleran30
Capt as difficult as this sounds they went to war with those European settlers and chose to stay in the USA there is Canada and Mexico.....

Did Caesar let crushed enemies live with him.....as a slave
Did Egypt let crushed enemies live with them.......as a slave
How about Ghengis Khan and the mongols........nope killed them all
What did American Indians do with a defeated captured tribe? I will tell you they sure as hell didn't say stay where you are and live off what you can.....guess what the defeated tribe......you guessed it SLAVE or Killed

So what exactly was your point about American Indians now?

FeceMan
Originally posted by soleran30
Capt as difficult as this sounds they went to war with those European settlers and chose to stay in the USA there is Canada and Mexico.....

Did Caesar let crushed enemies live with him.....as a slave
Did Egypt let crushed enemies live with them.......as a slave
How about Ghengis Khan and the mongols........nope killed them all
What did American Indians do with a defeated captured tribe? I will tell you they sure as hell didn't say stay where you are and live off what you can.....guess what the defeated tribe......you guessed it SLAVE or Killed

So what exactly was your point about American Indians now?
You are about to be so WTFBBQPWNED that it's not even funny.

(Oh, wait, yes, it is...)

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by soleran30
Capt as difficult as this sounds they went to war with those European settlers and chose to stay in the USA there is Canada and Mexico.....

Did Caesar let crushed enemies live with him.....as a slave
Did Egypt let crushed enemies live with them.......as a slave
How about Ghengis Khan and the mongols........nope killed them all
What did American Indians do with a defeated captured tribe? I will tell you they sure as hell didn't say stay where you are and live off what you can.....guess what the defeated tribe......you guessed it SLAVE or Killed

So what exactly was your point about American Indians now? ...this should be interesting...

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Capt as difficult as this sounds they went to war with those European settlers and chose to stay in the USA there is Canada and Mexico.....

Did Caesar let crushed enemies live with him.....as a slave
Did Egypt let crushed enemies live with them.......as a slave
How about Ghengis Khan and the mongols........nope killed them all
What did American Indians do with a defeated captured tribe? I will tell you they sure as hell didn't say stay where you are and live off what you can.....guess what the defeated tribe......you guessed it SLAVE or Killed

So what exactly was your point about American Indians now?

It's not difficult!

These native Americans were no match for the tecnologically more advance Europeans, with their guns and diseases. The 'Indians' only really started fighting back in a suffecient manner, after they started getting ahold of European weapons.

Yes, Caesar DID let "crushed" enemies live. Not only live, but they were allowed to live as they had before their conflict. The only difference was, they were enlisted into the Roman army and they had to pay Rome taxes.

The Egyptians did pretty much the same. The only ones they killed were soldiers in battle. They also forced defeated peoples to serve in their army, and pay tribute to the Pharaoh.

Mongols, yeah, I don't know too much about them....


Native Americans had no concept of slaves. And most often, theose they defeated were allowed to joing the victorious tribe...and become a part of their society.

PVS
:edit:

soleran30
Defeated Tribes were slaves or KILLED whoever told you differntly is incorrect........WTF is this about better equipment and disease? So what one army was better prepared one lost.......this is always the case get over that Capt.

And once again I might add please reading comprehension is CRUCIAL because words being placed in someone mouth don't belong.

Mister PVS it pains me to bring this to your attention as well however reparations for Germany holocaust victims was an ALLIED piece not just one country. United Nations was formed during the previous period of Indians there was no collective govt

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Defeated Tribes were slaves or KILLED whoever told you differntly is incorrect........WTF is this about better equipment and disease? So what one army was better prepared one lost.......this is always the case get over that Capt.

And once again I might add please reading comprehension is CRUCIAL because words being placed in someone mouth don't belong.

Mister PVS it pains me to bring this to your attention as well however reparations for Germany holocaust victims was an ALLIED piece not just one country. United Nations was formed during the previous period of Indians there was no collective govt


"This is" NOT "always the case"


what do guns and disease have to do with it? Read your history.

PVS
Originally posted by soleran30
Defeated Tribes were slaves or KILLED whoever told you differntly is incorrect........WTF is this about better equipment and disease? So what one army was better prepared one lost.......this is always the case get over that Capt.

And once again I might add please reading comprehension is CRUCIAL because words being placed in someone mouth don't belong.

Mister PVS it pains me to bring this to your attention as well however reparations for Germany holocaust victims was an ALLIED piece not just one country. United Nations was formed during the previous period of Indians there was no collective govt

i edited because i mistook your initial post on native american reparations.
i thought you were making the point that somehow we were absolved of any guilt because a minority of a minority of a race which was systematically murdered was given a few casinos and small chunks of useless land to live on. when i saw the post after that i knew we were on the same page in this matter.

my bad.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by soleran30
United Nations was formed during the previous period of Indians there was no collective govt What does this sentence mean? It makes little grammatical sense...

soleran30
Yup its kinda rough really

My point though was to point out even though 2 evils don't equal a right holocaust was the systemic destruction of a people that were established in its own govt/community.
VS

The destruction of a people that an invading army subdued and decimated neither are right but 2 different mechanisms on the WHY it happened

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What does this sentence mean? It makes little grammatical sense...


He does that some times, I think he/she combines two different thoughts into once sentence.

That doesn't change how wrong he is, however. The United Nations was formed AFTER WW2. The LEAGUE OF NATIONS was formed after WW1.

And there was no continent spanning single government for the native americans. But, there were many different 'indian' nations that were here long before "the white man" arrived.

soleran30
United Nations was formed after WWII for/because of the holocaust. During the previous period of Indian Wars there was no collective govt other than US in charge

soleran30
What are you trying to get at Capt_Fantastic.....yes there were different tribes with a different set of rulers for each tribe. What does this have to do with anything.

Two ARMIES fought something I want to make sure is clear ARMED MEN on both sides it doesn't matter if one side is better equipped not like the holocaust where you just sat around eating dinner and WAMMO you got taken........armies face each other they know what can be lost unsuspecting victims are sheep

FeceMan
1. The 'smallpox-in-the-blankets' story has been classified as bullshit.
2. Yeah, guns were REALLY so much more advanced than the bows the Indians used. *Rolls eyes.*

PVS
shit, now i realised that i DIDNT misunderstand you. im just having trouble decoding the grammar messed

anyway, you are correct. many native tribes killed their enemy.
but how does that negate our own crime of genocide?
they were simply "mindless savages" as our superiors liked to put it.
and we were in the business of making them "civilized".

and just so you know, the majority of natives were not killed by gunshots in a war, which most would have preferred as it would have been honerable to them. but instead we killed off all but a few hundred buffalo and forced them into famine, and also intentionally infected many women and children with disease ridden blankets. so many foul tricks to kill off a race of people.

and so this race chose to remain segregated among tribes and sometimes fight and kill, just like 'civilised' caucasion europeans have for centuries. but since they did it on a smaller scale, that makes it different? i dont get it.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
What are you trying to get at Capt_Fantastic.....yes there were different tribes with a different set of rulers for each tribe. What does this have to do with anything.

Two ARMIES fought something I want to make sure is clear ARMED MEN on both sides it doesn't matter if one side is better equipped not like the holocaust where you just sat around eating dinner and WAMMO you got taken........armies face each other they know what can be lost unsuspecting victims are sheep


It's not what I'm gatting at, it's what you're "getting at". "What does that have to do with anything?" is a good question. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying.

And the American Indians did experience "WAMMO you got taken". There were two sides, one was an "army" and the other wasn't. They were forced to move off their ancestoral lands, again...and again. Villages were burned to the ground, disease spread because they weren't physically acclimated to them, on top of infected blankets being given to them under teh the guise of "humanitarian aide"

"unsuspecting victims are sheep" ...!...wtf does that mean?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by FeceMan
1. The 'smallpox-in-the-blankets' story has been classified as bullshit.
2. Yeah, guns were REALLY so much more advanced than the bows the Indians used. *Rolls eyes.*


Are you attempting to justify what was done to the native amricans?

FeceMan
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Are you attempting to justify what was done to the native amricans?
Nope, I'm just saying your 'disease and guns' points are invalid.

PVS
Originally posted by FeceMan
1. The 'smallpox-in-the-blankets' story has been classified as bullshit.

post a link to a valid source then or please dont spread your own special brand of racist misinformation k thx

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by soleran30
United Nations was formed after WWII for/because of the holocaust. During the previous period of Indian Wars there was no collective govt other than US in charge So basically what I'm hearing is "crimes against humanity are justified because they happened in the past." To which I respond "What the f**k? are people seriously defending the slaughter and marginalisation of the Native Americans as justified?"

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by FeceMan
Nope, I'm just saying your 'disease and guns' points are invalid.


How so? Because the Indians were stupid enough to fight back? What should they have done? sat there and let themselves be wiped out?

soleran30
Ok Capt_Fantastic perhaps I need some help with my history and understanding here......

Are you saying that the American Indians did not gather arms and fight against "European Settlers?"

That when European settlers landed on the continent the American Indians lived on they were not attacked by the indians?

PVS
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"What the f**k? are people seriously defending the slaughter and marginalisation of the Native Americans as justified?"

they always stop damn short of it dont they blink

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by soleran30
Ok Capt_Fantastic perhaps I need some help with my history and understanding here......

Are you saying that the American Indians did not gather arms and fight against "European Settlers?"

That when European settlers landed on the continent the American Indians lived on they were not attacked by the indians? Which party were indigenous to the land and which party were trespassing and misappropriating land and resources.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It's not what I'm gatting at, it's what you're "getting at". "What does that have to do with anything?" is a good question. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying.

And the American Indians did experience "WAMMO you got taken". There were two sides, one was an "army" and the other wasn't. They were forced to move off their ancestoral lands, again...and again. Villages were burned to the ground, disease spread because they weren't physically acclimated to them, on top of infected blankets being given to them under teh the guise of "humanitarian aide"

"unsuspecting victims are sheep" ...!...wtf does that mean?

Yes, a terrible, terrible thing. Even the five tribes who tried to adopt "civilised"ways ended up being treated the same, pushed back, killed intentionally and not... terrible to think so many types of holocaust have occurred of the years, from Kurds and Armenians, the American Indians, the Australian Aboriginals (also forced off lands to make way for livestock, and then given poisoned flour when they tried to get food anyway they could).

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by soleran30
Ok Capt_Fantastic perhaps I need some help with my history and understanding here......

Are you saying that the American Indians did not gather arms and fight against "European Settlers?"

That when European settlers landed on the continent the American Indians lived on they were not attacked by the indians?

WHAT? Seriously!...I have no idea what you're saying to me!

Hell yes they gathered arms and fought back! But, why woldn't they? They were being exterminated and stripped of their land and rights, as human beings! Would you just sit there and take it? Because that's what you seem to be saying they should have done.

soleran30
So Xmarks the Spot are you saying that it was OK at that time for the American Indians to attack a small European group that was trying to settle a new land?

PVS
you mean an isolated tribe who attacked a group of strangers who trespassed on their land and used their resources without permission? just the same as they would have done to another tribe? yes it was justified. YES.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by soleran30
So Xmarks the Spot are you saying that it was OK at that time for the American Indians to attack a small European group that was trying to settle a new land? What PVS said.

Now answer my question. Is it justified for settlers to slaughter and marginalise a population of indigenous people in order to expand their territorial wealth? Is it justified to commit what by modern terms would be considered crimes against humanity in order to gain land from indigenous people?

Imperial_Samura
True Capt_Fantastic. There were in the beginning tribes who tried to co-exist with settlers, but just like in South America with the natives it ended up that the settlers wanted more and more and they took it, regardless of the rights and lives of the people who had been living then for 100s to thousands of years. They inflicted suffering and death unknown to the native cultures. It's only natural there were those that fought back.

And you can bet your last button, incidentally, that if a group of Indians had landed on the shores of England and began to colonise that they would have been attacked and see of quick smart, regardless of how peaceful the settlers were.

soleran30
And my point is that the Indians were a conquered people.......I am not saying that after they were conquered they were treated with the same rights as other "Americans" at the time

However my point was that once again Indians were a conquered people and the Jewish at the time were a general populace of Germany that was singled out after they had been established in the common population and commerce of that society

xmarksthespot
You didn't answer the question.

soleran30
Oh and Xmarks the spot the reason those European settlers left England and went to colonize a new settlement was because of religious prosecution not for "wealth" becuase back then those "settlers" had HUGE LOSSES just traveling and then establishing themselves anywhere.

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