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a buddy of mine who seems to know everything about star wars explained about the origin of the sith and how sidious recruited others who had potential in the force,for example i never knew the red imperial guards had limited knowledge of the force but werent jedi/sith.
so when they say "only a master and an apprentice" are they just talking about sith lords?and the sith can employ others who use the force without them being jedi/sith,or am i just getting confused?

Sidious IMO didn't follow the Bane's code to the book. He had many students, as did Vader and Dooku.

yeah but were his students his apprentices?you could argue that sidious only had one main apprentice sith at a time

I don't believe that crap about it being okay because they were "students" and not apprentices. I don't think Sidious follows the Sith Code.

yeah it seems kinda like a technicality.maybe the other students werent sith though,just rogue or dark jedi.the other body guards sidious had who had limited force power were hardly jedi(eg.the imperial guards were no match for yoda)
so let me get this straight,characters can know the force without being jedi or sith?

Yeah... Of course, you don't have to follow either religion to use the force.

seems that the expanded universe has so much good stuff in it that youve gotta woner why the prequels had so little

The EU was created by a lot of people with a lot of different views, a lot of good stuff has to come from that. They can explore further on what GL started. GL can not. He already knows what he wants, once that is set its hard to explore on it. But lets not forget there is a lot of crappy EU too.

Take NJO for instance, perhaps not because of how it was written or the characters but just because of how it is all shaped. Absolute bullshit if you ask me.

There are a lot of non-Jedi and non-Sith force users. Just to name a few.

Matukai
Jensaari
Those hounds on that one planet use the force to hunt(real specific)
Sorcerers of Tund(these guys may just be made up and not actual EU)
The Fallen(I think)

Sidious IS a Sith- he's the demonstration, from GL, of what a Sith IS!

Only one apprentice at a time. He is very strict on that.

woah Ushgarak's from Chelmsford!!! *thinks silently* thats chav city hehe...please dont banish me lol...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sidious IS a Sith- he's the demonstration, from GL, of what a Sith IS!

Only one apprentice at a time. He is very strict on that.

You misunderstood what I said. He didn't follow Bane's Sith Code. That was the one with only one apprentice at one time. He broke it when he taught to many people at one time and when he revealed himself to the Jedi. Bane believed that the way to destroy the Jedi would be secretly, never letting the Jedi know they weren't extinct.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You misunderstood what I said. He didn't follow Bane's Sith Code. That was the one with only one apprentice at one time. He broke it when he taught to many people at one time and when he revealed himself to the Jedi. Bane believed that the way to destroy the Jedi would be secretly, never letting the Jedi know they weren't extinct.

Glentract...Ush is super movie lover and he does not regard the EU as anything to use an in argument.

Not at all why Ush just said that.

He's right, Sidious was only one Sith apprentice at a time. He does follow the Code.

The rest of 'em? The Emperor's Hands? They are not Sith. They are Dark Jedi. There's a difference.

Anyway, other Force-users...

Besides the Jedi Order and the Sith Order, there were...


The Kilian Rangers - kept peace on Kilia IV and defended it from invaders
The Aing Tii - monks who despised slavery and viewed the Force as colorful rather than Light or Dark
The Dark Jedi - fallen Jedi who followed the Dark Side of the Force, but were less trained or knowledgable of the Dark Side as the Sith
The Emperor's Hands - Dark Jedi who were more knowledgable of the Dark Side but were not Sith
The Inquisitorius - another Dark Jedi faction underneath Palpatine, focused on breaking minds and interrogation and torture
The Prophets of the Dark Side - another Dark Side faction under Palpatine, which used the Force to peer into the future to aid Palpatine
The Ewok Shamans - Ewoks that were Force adepts who, in their primitive beliefs, thought that they could perform magic
The Fallanassi - a wandering group that followed the ways of the White Current (The Force) and despised the Sith
The Gand Findsmen - part-shaman, part-law enforcers on the world of Gand, who hunted criminals with the Force
The Infinite Empire of the Rakata - Dark-Siders who created the Star Forge, ruled the galaxy several thousand years before the Republic but died out from plague
The Jensaarai - former Jedi who tried to put Sith techniques into their training and wore elaborate armor
The Krath - rulers of the Empress Teta system, vicious Dark Siders who despised the Jedi almost as much as the Sith did and designed a nasty war droid
The Witches of Dathomir - Force adept women who ruled the planet Dathomir
The Nightsisters - exiled Witches of Dathomir who used the Dark Side


There are many more, but I could not find adequate descriptions of them.

Ah, here's a good one. RPG site, I think, but it has some good descriptions of Force-using groups.

http://theforce.jaymach.com/forceusinggroups.php

Originally posted by Veneficus
Glentract...Ush is super movie lover and he does not regard the EU as anything to use an in argument.

Then what is he doing in the EU section? Anyways, there are several other Force-sensitive sects, they just aren't being pay-rolled by the Republic.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Ah, here's a good one. RPG site, I think, but it has some good descriptions of Force-using groups.

http://theforce.jaymach.com/forceusinggroups.php good site

Precisely. Not that the Jedi Order is receiving payment for their good deeds. They just get nifty hardware from time to time.

Originally posted by Darth Koroni
Then what is he doing in the EU section? Anyways, there are several other Force-sensitive sects, they just aren't being pay-rolled by the Republic. Doesn't mean he can't be involved in it as a mod.

Or as a fan in general. He wasn't arguing the canon vs. EU stuff that everyone seems to enjoy doing until its pointlessly pathetic. The Rule of Two is in the movies and in EU anyway.

Actually the rule of 2 is rather...wrong...to be honest...the Apprentice is always trying to supplant the Master...and so usually they're training an Apprentice of their own while their Master is still alive. Additionally, if the Master feels the Apprentice is going to betray him, he'll also train an Apprentice...so the "rule of 2" can actually sometimes be wrong, in that there can be a maximum of 4 Sith at any one time. However, it is possible to have many Dark Jedi...the Dark Side of the Force, a Sith does not make. The only Sith around Palp's time have been Plageous (his Master), Maul (his 1st apprentice we know of), Tyranus (his 2nd we know of), Vader (his 3rd we know of), and Lumiya (his 4th we know of). He did, however, have many many many Dark Siders...examples would be the Emperor's Hands (which there have been 11 of that I can think of at the time), his Dark Side Elite, Dark Side Adepts, Darktroopers, Imperial Sovereign Protectors, Royal Imperial Guard, Inquisitorius, and also the Prophets of the Dark Side who followed his orders, though were not under his direct control. As well as all those groups of Force users, there are still random Dark Jedi who he trained but were not a part of any of the groups. To become a Sith, you have to be trained in the Sith arts, which are different powers than he would teach to regular Dark Jedi.

Other Force users - (besides the Jedi & Sith order and)

The Aing-Tii Monks
The Ancient Order of the Whills
The Baadu
The Baran Do
The Believers of Cularin
The Bladeborn
The Disciples of Ragnos
The Ee Worms
The Ewok shamans
The Fallannassi
The Gand Findsmen
The Gesaril
The Golden Sun
The Guardians of Breath
The Heresiarchs
The Jal Shey
The Jarvashqiine shamans
The Jensaarai
The Kiffar Guardians
The Kilian Rangers
The Korrunai believers of pelekotan
The Krath
The Matuki
The Order of Shasa
The Peranus Order
The Potentium heretics
The Prophets of the Dark Side
The Scitrok Warriors
The Seyugi Dervishes
The Shimuran Monks
The Sorcerors of Tund
The Ta-Ree
The Theran Listeners
The Tyia
The Witches of Dathomir
The Wyrd
The Ysanna
The Zeison Sha

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Other Force users - (besides the Jedi & Sith order and)

The Aing-Tii Monks
The Ancient Order of the Whills
The Baadu
The Baran Do
The Believers of Cularin
The Bladeborn
The Disciples of Ragnos
The Ee Worms
The Ewok shamans
The Fallannassi
The Gand Findsmen
The Gesaril
The Golden Sun
The Guardians of Breath
The Heresiarchs
The Jal Shey
The Jarvashqiine shamans
The Jensaarai
The Kiffar Guardians
The Kilian Rangers
The Korrunai believers of pelekotan
The Krath
The Matuki
The Order of Shasa
The Peranus Order
The Potentium heretics
The Prophets of the Dark Side
The Scitrok Warriors
The Seyugi Dervishes
The Shimuran Monks
The Sorcerors of Tund
The Ta-Ree
The Theran Listeners
The Tyia
The Witches of Dathomir
The Wyrd
The Ysanna
The Zeison Sha

Thanx for the detailed answer

Originally posted by Captain REX
Anyway, other Force-users...

Besides the Jedi Order and the Sith Order, there were...


The Kilian Rangers - kept peace on Kilia IV and defended it from invaders
The Aing Tii - monks who despised slavery and viewed the Force as colorful rather than Light or Dark
The Dark Jedi - fallen Jedi who followed the Dark Side of the Force, but were less trained or knowledgable of the Dark Side as the Sith
The Emperor's Hands - Dark Jedi who were more knowledgable of the Dark Side but were not Sith
The Inquisitorius - another Dark Jedi faction underneath Palpatine, focused on breaking minds and interrogation and torture
The Prophets of the Dark Side - another Dark Side faction under Palpatine, which used the Force to peer into the future to aid Palpatine
The Ewok Shamans - Ewoks that were Force adepts who, in their primitive beliefs, thought that they could perform magic
The Fallanassi - a wandering group that followed the ways of the White Current (The Force) and despised the Sith
The Gand Findsmen - part-shaman, part-law enforcers on the world of Gand, who hunted criminals with the Force
The Infinite Empire of the Rakata - Dark-Siders who created the Star Forge, ruled the galaxy several thousand years before the Republic but died out from plague
The Jensaarai - former Jedi who tried to put Sith techniques into their training and wore elaborate armor
The Krath - rulers of the Empress Teta system, vicious Dark Siders who despised the Jedi almost as much as the Sith did and designed a nasty war droid
The Witches of Dathomir - Force adept women who ruled the planet Dathomir
The Nightsisters - exiled Witches of Dathomir who used the Dark Side


There are many more, but I could not find adequate descriptions of them.

Holy crap.

How much time did you take to find that out?

It's actually almost all accessable on my site...and I have a lot more information on all of them...and I have more groups...but oh well...back to working on the update which actually contains a few more groups.